Topic: getting into 40k

[Crimsonsphinx]

3 better side armour than a chimera.

one less front than a leman russ, and the same side armour and rear armour as a leman russ, and in fact one more rear armour than half the russes (unless I am mistaken in the av 11 all round)

How is it not well armoured, for a transport? when it has the same total armour value as half the russes, and one less than the bigger russes.

It is a lot of points, but quantum shielding is good.

I agree with Finlay.  Its armour, for a transport, is unbelievably good.  Best armour apart from landraiders as transports go.  Even when the forcefield goes down, and it is stuck with lower, rhino level armour [which is still good enough to deflect 99% of small arms from front/sides] it still has independently targeting broadside batteries and the crew inside can shoot.  Well worth the points investment.  Also its a fast skimmer is it not?  So considerably quicker than most transports.

Open topped is only a problem if you get penetrated.  With only a single notch below the maximum available armour, you need dedicated anti tank guns to realistically scratch this.  Autocannon spam is unlikely to do much, and at best can glance on its first hit, so open topped isn't really a downside.

[phillyt]

Open topped does matter when you get a glancing.  It allows a vehicle to be wrecked on glancing hits, which is a big deal.  If you get glanced by a melta weapon, you are blowing up one third of the time!

It isn't a fast skimmer.

My contention is that it isn't much better than a devil fish, which everyone seems to hate. 115 is quite a lot of points.  An ork battle wagon has a 14 front and 12 side armor and can hold 20 models of any type for only 90 points.

[Finlay]

Compare it to your hated Devilfish though.  35 points more, two less transport capacity, limited to only a single model type for transport, and open topped.

115 is exactly what it should cost.

whats the devilfish armour? I dont have my book here.

also im pretty sure devilfish can only transport FW or pathfinders and it has 0 fire points, and can't regenerate models and only has a heavy bolter on it, compared to 10 gauss guns.

the disadvantage of opentopped in the ghost ark is partially negated by the Quantum shielding, and the considerable advantage of still being able to fire gives it a massive leg up over the devilfish.


That you are comparing it to the DF at all is pretty funny.

115 is a lot of points, but they do have a lot of nifty rules/abilities.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Open topped does matter when you get a glancing.  It allows a vehicle to be wrecked on glancing hits, which is a big deal.  If you get glanced by a melta weapon, you are blowing up one third of the time!

It isn't a fast skimmer.

My contention is that it isn't much better than a devil fish, which everyone seems to hate. 115 is quite a lot of points.  An ork battle wagon has a 14 front and 12 side armor and can hold 20 models of any type for only 90 points.

Philly, my point was that being open topped only matters if you meet the required number to glance or penetrate.  It is virtually immune to most of the normal anti transport guns [s6/7] that people usually take to stun/shake them.  Instead you are realistically forced to fire s8 or 9 weapons to have a decent chance, which are usually 1 shot and very expensive [at least for armies I play] to at least take the shield down.

My point is that it seems very good value for points.  Now obviously this is in isolation just looking at the one unit, I don't have the book and it may be that when working lists out, it is actually too expensive to field, despite all its seemingly large amount of good abilities. 

[rufus sparkfire]

whats the devilfish armour?

12/11/10.

[phillyt]

I bought and will field two because they look fantastic, but there are more than enough limitations (only allowd to carry warriors, can only repair warriors) and it is fairly expensive.  It certainly isn't a bargain.  It does have its uses.  But for 85 more points you get a monolith with much better guns and the ability to teleport models all over the field.

[GamesPoet]

Hope the original poster is finding all this helpful.

- - -

How much does a monolith cost?

[phillyt]

200

[GamesPoet]

Ah, wonder if that would work on a 500 point starter list for the guy just getting started.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Hope the original poster is finding all this helpful.

- - -

How much does a monolith cost?

I hope he does too GamesPoet.     I think quite a lot of what has been discussed is of value, as we were discussing the various merits of the transport as well as comparing it to other equivalent transports in other armies.

[phillyt]

1 necron lord with warscyth - 100
1 monolith - 200
5 necrons - 65
10 necrons - 130

A decent list

[Blindseer03]

Oh im finding this extremely educational 
It would seem atleast for me that in the small game im planning, the ghost ark would be very useful. with so small a points list, most likely my opponent who is also new wont take many high str weapon so it will probably last the battle with luck. i like the idea of a monolith but only starting out with very few models, it might be hard for my opponent to handle it unless he packs his list with high str weapons. which if i was playing to win would be great, but we'll be playing to learn the rules of the games aswell as get a feel for how our units work against eachother. i dont want to bring something he can't handle just yet. but then again i've never played so i could be wrong.
Thanks everyone for the awesome advice

[phillyt]

I would suggest though that if money is an issue for you, the monolith is a good choice.  Ghost arks aren't terribly good at $49 each.  The monolith is way more bang for your buck at $66.

[Blindseer03]

Moneys not too big of an issue so i'll probably get both since monoliths seem to be an integral part of most necron armies. How are the new deathmarks? i love the models and have always had a soft spot for snipers in any game i play. are they usable in low point games or are they better for highter point lists?

[phillyt]

I don't see them as playable at all right now.  But I have a feeling they will be better in 6th edition.  I am still making 5 of them thoguh.  I need one of everything.

Immortals on the other hand are a must take.  You need 10 of them.

[Aldaris]

I wouldn't say Deathmarks aren't playable right now. They are quite reasonably priced, get a rapid fire sniper rifle and can nominate one unit they'll wound on 2+. That's not bad at all, even without the possible future 6th edition buffs. I don't see them as a unit that jumps out and screams "use me, you idiot" currently, but they're certainly playable.

[phillyt]

I actually went back and reread them a few times after posting them last night.

Since necron don't have a very clogged elite selection, I can see some good uses for them.  The 2+ wounding thing makes them quite good even against marines because you can just sit there and shoot that single unit for a bit.   I can see using a unit of 5 regularly.  Keep them in reserve while I wait for deep strikers, or at a worst case scenario bring them through a monolith and open fire.

[Sig]

Should be decent at forcing a lot of saves on MCs.

[Blindseer03]

Im glad they actually do have some uses . I hate to keep asking questions instead of just ordering the codex and shuting up , but ive heard some people say that tesla cannons for immortals arent any good, and then ive heard from others that guass rifles are crap now  (all this was from warseer i think) so which one is the better choice, or are they each better depending on how your using your immortals?

[Aldaris]

...or are they each better depending on how your using your immortals?

This. Read the pertinent rules of rapid fire weapons and assault weapons and it should be clear why people prefer one or the other. Both are good and have their uses.

[phillyt]

Don't feel bad for asking questions, we enjoy it.

Warseer is a troubled land with angry, confused idiots.  Many dislike Gauss blasters and gauss weapons as a whole because they thought they were getting rending.  Instead they have the always glance potential, which actually makes the super nasty. 

I am really torn between Tesla Carbines and Gauss Blasters for Immortals.  For my play style, I think the Tesla carbines are the better choice.  My immortals will be buffed because of the Traveller, making them a competent CC unit.  They will need to be moving and the assault ability of the Teslas will let them shoot the full 24" as they go.  Of course, if they get out of a monolith, they will be close enough to something to really pound it with the blasters.  The Blasters on the otherhand allow them to do damage to vehicles (the teslas don't really) and look classic and cool, which the teslas don't really.

Lets look at the numbers:

10 immortals with tesla cannons will hit6 to 7 times on average with a 6 for one of those meaning 9 to 10 S5 hits per turn.  With Blasters, at long range they will hit with 6, at close range they will hit with 13 on average.  Not a huge difference, but I will say the carbines assault ability means they can fire and move for a reach of 30" total.  That they can assault after is a big jump too.  The Blasters though will ignore all armor other than marines which makes them tempting.

I for one will be using Carbines I guess, though I will miss having those sweet looking blasters!  I guess I can od blasters with my next unit of immortals.

[Finlay]

glancing on a 6 makes gauss weapons pretty good, compared to a lot of other small arms weapons.


Warseer tends to be overly negative ( ) but I do go on it, as well as using here, and a dark eldar forum.
Helps give a pretty balanced view, as the 40k forum here is mainly Aldaris and Phillyt, in terms of active and experienced players, so that does give a reasonably narrow viewpoint.


I throw my oar in, but have only played about 10 40k games, so it's far more theory-hammering!

[Crimsonsphinx]

Ive played a lot of 40k but I don't post too much on here.

I am fairly good with certain armies that I use [guard/chaos] but poor on the other armies, as I can only offer advice on what I think looks good, or what worked well against me!

[Blindseer03]

i appreciate all the helpful advice. i do believe you've answered all the questions i've had on my mind. With so many helpful people on this sight its nice to know i have a place to go for all my gaming questions and wont get ripped apart for being a newb.

thankyou all very much   

[GamesPoet]

That's one of the best things about this site.  Generally folks here can be very helpful.