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Author Topic: Lord Choices  (Read 12986 times)

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2009, 02:28:30 PM »

Why would we change the name of GoTE? He's a random character he can have any title you want him too.

Indeed; let's not confuse the unit names and the fluff.  I never once believed that if you took an Arch Lector you were taking one of the ONLY TWO in the Empire, and even when we had Elector Counts I had no issues fielding one that, fluffwise, I thought of as little more than a glorified general.

Of course, I've said before the Empire army needs minor tweaks at best, maybe naming conventions are part of that.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2009, 02:50:55 PM »

 I never once believed that if you took an Arch Lector you were taking one of the ONLY TWO in the Empire, and even when we had Elector C

You should email that Wirewolf or Direwolf gaming club and tell them they're tools for saying their can BE ONLY ONE war altar. In an edition that has no unit/item caps the idea that a cap on the War altar was a good idea is bogus*.






* and 100 points for it is fine. Only people to complain that Empire are OP are daemon and vc players who loose the right to any opinion anyway.
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2009, 04:21:20 PM »
Wizard lord allows you to take a unit of Tzeentchian Warriors Acolytes (to be invented again) for free ?

Acolytes give +1 PD?
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2009, 07:11:44 AM »
yeah if you sacrifice them to the dark gods....upps wrong forum.

General upgrade to elector count --> pro and great idea grant him the runefang for +50 Points with his three Ws 5 Attacks he still doesn´t cut the big slack.

Ld 9 is fine but perhaps he should make his unit immune to panic or even psychology.

Offline MiB

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2009, 10:11:34 AM »
General can be upgraded to Elector Count +100 points for Runefang, can spend 50 points on items and makes a unit of Greatswords Core, also allows them a banner.

Arch Lector - Fine as he is, can make a unit of Flagellants core as now

Grandmaster - Give this guy an extra attack and Killing Blow

Engineers - 2 types, one is a character similar to now, can make cannons and mortars only 2 for 1 special OR can take 1 cannon as core choice, whichever people feel isnt to overpowered. Other type works as an upgrade for any artillery piece +50 points, allows a reroll on the misfire table and BS4 for Hellblaster to actually hit something


Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2009, 01:29:16 AM »
Well the rules on engineers with a missblaster now IMO is that you can place him with the blaster and you get his bs4 but if it explodes he doesn't die as he didn't replace a crewman or use his reroll that turn.

I think maybe General of the empire allows on unit of greatswords to become core and upgrade to elector count 40pts. (this is a nice rounded number :happy:) Elector count can buy a runefang +50 and comes comes equipped wih full plate armour. All weapon and armour options open, mounts stay same pts, for the griffon is good maybe drop it to 175/180

Elector count grants his unit immune to panic and a reroll on panic test within 6inches (was gonna say twelve but his voice aint that good) and one magic banner per army.
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Offline Lord 0

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2009, 12:36:15 PM »
I have often felt that the strength of the Empire lies not so much in the individual troops, but more that they can coordinate well - hence the detachment rules.

Wizard Lord
If the Wizard Lord is your General then all wizards in your army may choose *any* spell instead of only the first.

Offline Luther kampf

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2009, 10:07:10 PM »
Wizard Lord
If the Wizard Lord is your General then all wizards in your army may choose *any* spell instead of only the first.
hey
any spell? that seems a bit overpowered to me. just change all your spells to firewall/pit of shades/cleansing flare/the spirit of the forge ect. ect.
really makes all of your wizards way too powerful in my eyes.

Luther
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Offline Luschke

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2009, 08:16:58 AM »
Good general is the imperial key to victory. What do you think about giving GotE 100 additional points, just like vampiric powers etc. for his orders/tactics/strategies? Example: general is able to buy buff for units (general gives his unit +d3 to CR; one unit in 6" per turn, if passes Ld test, will be able to turn for free/may reroll panic tests etc...) or more expensive powers that affect whole army and grant serious advantages (+1 to result of game's beginning roll or redeployment of one unit or even extra turn of shooting from one war machine before battle)

Offline Lord 0

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2009, 08:04:57 AM »
hey
any spell? that seems a bit overpowered to me. just change all your spells to firewall/pit of shades/cleansing flare/the spirit of the forge ect. ect.
really makes all of your wizards way too powerful in my eyes.

Luther
To clarify, I didn't mean that you can choose outside the lore that you chose for the wizard - not sure if you thought I meant that.

I am not sure it would be that over-powered in the grand scheme of things. After all, to get that super-power for your wizards you have to have a general with only Ld 8, and the ease with which spells are shut down these days there will not be that many spells getting through.

Offline Lord 0

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2009, 07:07:53 AM »
On reflection, I think *any* spell in the same college is not really what I was after.

I think I would change it to: If your Wizard Lord is General, then after determining spells normally all wizards may drop one spell and replace it with any one Remains In Play spell or any one spell that has a non-casualty effect. The new spell must be taken from the same College.

Offline redflag

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2009, 05:06:29 AM »
General of the Empire - any Halberd regiment's unit champion can be upgraded to a Greatsword.  As long as the Greatsord unit champion is alive the Halberd regiment has base leadership 8 and is stubborn.  Any Greatsword regiment joined by a GotE is immune to psycology. 

« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 05:29:13 AM by redflag »

Offline caledorsbane

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2009, 03:05:40 PM »
I think captians, generals and elector counts should be able to issue orders like the imperial guard can. E.g, they can make a unit shoot with an extra rank, or re-roll failed to wound rolls on large targets, or run and get an extra d6" move.

Captains would only get 1 per turn, generals 2 and electors 3, with different ranges for each, e.g 6" for captains, 9" for generals and 12" for elector counts.

Offline Lord Fenington

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2009, 11:39:56 PM »
there are only 2 arch lectors of SIGMAR however there are arch lectors of other gods in the empire

Offline Spiney

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2009, 12:40:29 PM »
Indeed, see the warrior priest thread for my thoughts on priests of other cults.

Sorry I might have missed something, when did we decide to halve the points of a Runefang? I mean come on, I know a GotE's stat line isn't very impressive, but thats just a mite presumptuous don't you think?

There shouldn't be one war altar in our list, its the only thing thats seriously broken (although the Steam tank comes close), Direwolf should be praised for their attempts at damage limitation, heaven forbid anyone should field a 3k army with two of those monstrosities in.

The war altar is supposed to be a unique sigmarite artifact so if we do go down the route of priests from different cults only sigmarites should be allowed to take the war altar.

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Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2009, 08:28:59 PM »
The discussion right now is that, priced as it is, the Runefang is a laughable option when you consider the amount of points in magical items a general is allowed to take.  Now, 1/2 the price may be overkill, but I think there's a very strong consensus that the Runefang is overpriced, to the point of uselessness (if you don't believe me, post an army list with a GoTE armed with a Runefang in the Parade Ground, and ask for pointers...guaranteed you will get several responses urging you to drop the Runefang).
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline iatroblast

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2009, 08:52:34 PM »
I think there is a way for a Runefang being useful -even though overpriced-
'Runefang (General of the Empire only)' -what? why? Sure a Runefang is synonymous with the status and authority of the Electors but since often command is delegated to a trusted soldier (General) along with a Runefang(!) then why not Runefangs are not presented to Templars??! They're not 'heroic Generals' as well??!

WS6 A4 + a Runefang(100pts) = Hero Killer (the least)

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2009, 08:56:45 PM »
You still have the problem of absolutely no magical defenses for your general, even if powerful in close combat.

With armies bringing 5+ PD on a soft list, heroes need protection beyond a high armor save to be worth the points you spend placing them.  Besides, most people will feel that there are cheaper weapons to give to a grandmaster and still leave him a combat machine (his stats are excellent, so even with a humbler sword he will chew up the enemy rank and file).

As for monster and enemy character killing, you can't beat the Speculum, and it's cheap enough to slap on even a lowly warrior priest and watch the blood fly (in fact, it's better that way).
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline Spiney

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2009, 09:19:05 PM »
I think there is a way for a Runefang being useful -even though overpriced-
'Runefang (General of the Empire only)' -what? why? Sure a Runefang is synonymous with the status and authority of the Electors but since often command is delegated to a trusted soldier (General) along with a Runefang(!) then why not Runefangs are not presented to Templars??! They're not 'heroic Generals' as well??!

WS6 A4 + a Runefang(100pts) = Hero Killer (the least)

You've already said it, the Runefang is synonymous with the status and authority of an elector count. Wielding a runefang isn't about who commands the army its about who has been elected to run the province. The runefang isn't just a general's sword, its a badge of office, the office being elector count. Whats more they can't just go around dishing out runefangs willy nilly to whoever they think deserves one, a limited number were made by a legendary dwarf smith, one for each electoral province, they don't have a runefang factory somewhere out the back of Stirland.

The only exception is when they recovered the Solland runefang, with no elector to wield it, it was laid in reserve for great heroes of the Empire and is currently wielded by Kurt Helborg. Perhaps the next time a province goes under they'll be in a position to hand out another.

Brain wounder: for when you don't want to kill your enemies, just leave them bedridden and pissing themselves.

Offline iatroblast

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2009, 09:21:02 PM »
YES! ...but since often command is delegated to a trusted soldier (General) along with a Runefang(!)...  :closed-eyes:  :-P

Quote
The only exception is when they recovered the Solland runefang, with no elector to wield it, it was laid in reserve for great heroes of the Empire and is currently wielded by Kurt Helborg. Perhaps the next time a province goes under they'll be in a position to hand out another.
...I think I got a headace... :? ...so many infos to memorise...  :eusa_wall: Well... Then they should give the Grandmaster that Runefang... I don't know..I give up.. :laugh: :-P
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 09:27:23 PM by iatroblast »

Offline Toro_Blanco

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2009, 11:36:46 PM »
Personally, I think the idea that an elector count would hand out a Runefang to a trusted templar just as possible as handing it to a trusted soldier.  My point was that changing this restriction does nothing to make the item itself more appealing.  Nor do I care enough to push for such a change.
The first school of thought is that the ragged-assed Stirlanders, not having two coppers to rub together, nicked it when an elven envoy was passing through the area and had hopped off it to take a pee behind a tree

Offline iatroblast

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2009, 12:43:03 AM »
I believe we're asking for too much here! We are commanding humans and we must have weaknesses, especially when wielding a powerful weapon like a Runefang (auto-wound! no armour saves allowed!)
General and Grandmaster both have high strength, toughness and attacks compared to a normal man. If they're wielding such a devastating weapon, they must have a weakness (such the lack of magical defenses) otherwise we'll mistake them for DEMONS!!  :laugh: :icon_razz: :icon_razz: :icon_razz:

I think, -what the 'inventor' of the Runefang is expecting- is that whoever Runefang hits, will probably not live long enough to answer back
Maybe they should add a rule that's going like: "During the turn the wielder of the Runefang charges into combat, will strike first even against opponents having the ASF rule to their profle"
And if that ain't work, we always have our 1+ AS  :dry:
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 01:05:24 AM by iatroblast »

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2009, 05:42:21 AM »
I've taken a general with a Runefang before and people laugh at my General and say where is your war alter huh?
Then he hits the chaos lord three times and says where is your ward save?
They fail all and i say there is my General hahaha

lol like that ever happens.
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Offline Spiney

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #48 on: August 17, 2009, 07:55:53 AM »
YES! ...but since often command is delegated to a trusted soldier (General) along with a Runefang(!)...  :closed-eyes:  :-P


Why would he? Think about the scale of a warhammer game for a minute, as an elector, would you really give your priceless magical sword to one of your captains in order for him to lead 2 dozen great swords and a few units of state troops?

The Runefang is the Elector counts sword, a Templar grandmaster is going to have his own sword. Besides when the army of a full province goes to war it would be commanded by its elector, I mean whether the Elector gives his runefang to a province general is irrelevant right, they'd both be represented by the GoTE profile in any case. I can't think of a situation where a Grandmaster would be presented with a Runefang by an elector count, they're far too proud.

With regards to the solland runefang, Kurt Helborg has it, so if you want a TGM with a runefang, field him.

Brain wounder: for when you don't want to kill your enemies, just leave them bedridden and pissing themselves.

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Lord Choices
« Reply #49 on: August 17, 2009, 11:10:03 AM »
Is everyone forgetting the Drakwald Runefang? In the fluff regarding runefangs they are given out to heroic generals in dire need.

The Drakwald Runefang isn't needed anymore by any province so that could be the one that they give out
A man who builds his army around his fluff . . . respect . . .  :::cheers:::