Topic: The state of the WFB/Oldhammer community

[Captain Dob Van Dwi]

I would think most new people who start a WFB/Oldhammer army these days will either be returning oldhammerists or have learned about the game/army from someone who also points them to an internet site where WFB and their army is being discussed.

I disagree,  emphatically in fact. Those who left are unlikely to return, heck some of them may have passed by this point. Especially some of the old guard. At least that is the way it seems to me. The likelihood of someone also knowing another someone who can point them in the right direction may be true,  but they may not know the forum they are point may be dead. They may not know of any other place to go.

I'm afraid there isn't much really new blood. I've seen plenty of those who get interested in WFB/Oldhammer again and join a local group. That seems to be main venue of recruitment these days. Recruiting newbies also goes via friends, and friends can point the newbies to the existing discussions. And most people don't need open discussion sites, because they remain in their hobby group and discuss things there.

Really, if a complete noob wants to find discussions about the classic WFB/Oldhammer armies, he/she will likely be of such age that he/she will not google "[ARMY] forum", but rather do a search on one or the other - or likely many - social media sites. And will find his/her army discussion there. And a ready and easy platform for sharing photos of his/her progress and games.

I have had some discussions about this recruitment process with people who have actually followed and even studied the subject. Very few people start the hobby in a vacuum, they usually have peers around and this thing lives in networks of people. After all, you need friends to play with.

***

Hummm... that bodes I'll for the hobby then.

[GamesPoet]

Facebooks sends e-mails with notifications when there is a new message, post or something in a group you have participated in. WE also sends an e-mail, if someone has messaged you - one could extend that to new posts in a thread where you yourself have posted in. Not that I would recommend that - my remark was ironic.

Can a person turn those off if they don't want to be constantly reminded?

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

I should think so.

[GamesPoet]

Well since I ain't a facebum member, I don't have a clue on that one.

[Padre]

I turned off notifications on FB so that my phone didn't ping. I just check it at some point in the day and the notifications are numbered in a red circle at the top of the FB page. That way I only deal with notifications when I want to be on FB.

[GamesPoet]

See, facebum has at least a little redeeming value.

[Michael Stockin]

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[Michael Stockin]

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[Zygmund]

Hummm... that bodes I'll for the hobby then.

Not so sure about this.

The miniatures hobby is expanding and more people are coming in. The WFB/Oldhammer niche might not get many completely new people, but enough interest is rekindled among those who stopped for one reason or another, and are now returning. Like any hobby movement, this niche part of the miniature hobby will really start dying only when we, the hobbyists, stop hobbying - or sharing our hobby experience.

The best way to keep a hobby alive is not to over-analyze it or get moody about it, but to build, paint, play, post and comment. 

What's your current WFB/Oldhammer project, and how do you spread the word?

-Z

[GamesPoet]

...

The best way to keep a hobby alive is not to over-analyze it or get moody about it, but to build, paint, play, post and comment. 

Definitely some truth there.

What's your current WFB/Oldhammer project ... ?

Think I'll steal that for a thread title!

[FVC]

As of today Friday Oct 8th, 2021:
Dead forums:
TRToB

...man, things that hurt to remember. 

[Zygmund]

As of today Friday Oct 8th, 2021:
Dead forums:
TRToB

...man, things that hurt to remember. 

"For technical and legal reasons, the Round Table of Bretonnia has shut down operations."

Bolding mine.

What could that mean? Thinking about this Warhammer-Empire forum, what legal reasons could bring it down?

-Z

[Michael Stockin]

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[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

Surprised to see the EEFL forum going strong. It seemed to be slowly dying some years ago. When the forum isn't that big, the activity of few makes a big difference.

The numbers of posters and guests are much higher on EEFL than on Warhammer-Empire, although that is to be expected, since they focus on all races and we/WE on the only one that is worth its salt.

[Zygmund]

Surprised to see the EEFL forum going strong. It seemed to be slowly dying some years ago. When the forum isn't that big, the activity of few makes a big difference.

The numbers of posters and guests are much higher on EEFL than on Warhammer-Empire, although that is to be expected, since they focus on all races and we/WE on the only one that is worth its salt.

Doubly interesting!

I think when the 9th Age took a turn away from a refined 8th ed, a number of active players moved from the T9A forum to the EEFL forum. That might explain why the EEFL forum was relatively low activity when I checked years ago, but has now got more steam.

Also over at the EEFL there seems to be a lively culture or Warhammer-specific hobby plogs. Something that has waned over here.

We still have people who post about their progress, but increasingly without photos and sometimes in non-topical threads and in non-topical subfora. Like I guess my last photo updates are in the 100 days challenge thread in the Count's tavern, so nowhere near Brush & Palette, and not under a heading that would tell what I'm working with.

We should concentrate on producing photos of new Empire stuff. But alas, those are much easier to upload to the FB sites...

Also, in the spring of 2018 there was a rearrangement and an idea (by GP?) that this site could be an Empire of Warhammer stuff rather than solely concentrating on the Empire in WFB. So all army projects, and also WH40K projects are welcome. However, for example I have not posted my other projects, not in one painting plog or under several more informative headings. I wonder how much this lack* of interesting content is a problem of our own making.

* "lack" as in there could be much more, not in the sense the current content would be uninteresting.

-Z

[Michael Stockin]

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[Zygmund]

There was a conscious attempt to allow direct photo uplodads, but it only ever worked for one or two users. The powers behind the forum software said they tried to fix this, but it never got fixed.

Also I've seen the photo upload procedure on a couple of other fora, and it is complicated compared to FB uploads. So complicated I cannot bother myself.

The scene has so much moved to FB, reddit and Instagram it's hard to justify the trouble of linking to forums. I readily admit my laziness. But then again the change of platform has already happened, and the fora don't seem tempting places for hobby progress plogs (flogs) anymore. Few people and the lack of a LIKE button means there's very little response compared to social media groups.

More trouble for less response is not encouraging. And it's encouragement we're after when posting our progress, isn't it?

-Z

[Michael Stockin]

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[Zygmund]

"More trouble for less response is not encouraging."

Depends?
I would rather have 1 considered response than 200 likes.
I am also happy to wait a few hours for a reply, I don't need the instant gratification that social media delivers and then gets you addicted to.

I nearly always get considered responses in FB. The same number or more than I used to get over here. Also, people use my uploads as springboards for their own chatter, so I feel the discussion evolves somewhere, even if offtopic.

There are quite considered discussions on FB too, although they go on for a shorter time and are not archived as effectively as on fora. On the other hand, the FB searches work whereas the W-E searches don't work. I cannot find many archived discussions here even if I remember them and know they exist somewhere. (I do save interesting FB topics and create my own archive. FB has a tool for this. No doubt a tool that is used to sell me stuff related to my interests...)

Most responses on a forum tend to be just likes, but since many fora don't allow likes, people need to write a message. I don't see most one-liners or thumbs-up emoticons anything more than a like. I certainly know most of my messages on this forum are just thumbs-ups and chatter, the equivalent of FB LIKES. Thus in my experience there isn't more considered discussion on the fora, AND the barrier of liking is higher than on FB.

I admit I like the gratification. It doesn't have to be within an hour, but if on a forum there are just two one-liner comments in a day or two, I much more prefer 30 thumbs-ups and three considered replies on FB.

Perhaps most importantly, the FB groups where I'm active have people who tackle similar projects to mine, AND people I know personally and play with. This W-E forum has seen less and less Empire hobby, and these international fora lack the personal aspect. I guess the EEFL forum actually has an active nucleus of people whose hobby happens in the Old World and who know each other and play together. Close topical connection and personal friendship are big factors.

Then there is the reality that this site started to lose impetus during the late 8th ed, and contracted drastically since 2015. It's a shadow of what it used to be. The memory of old shadows my enjoyment of what is and can be achieved now. A kind of Noldor syndrome, I guess.    As new platforms with new people, the FB sites do not have that burden - and they are much more active.

-Z

[Michael Stockin]

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[Zygmund]

How do you find toxicity?
I left all the FB groups except the ones I moderate as there are inevitably some nobbers on there being douche bags and more often than not the moderators don't seem to intervene.
Quite a lot of people just being mean for the sake of it, which quite frankly I get tired of and it ruins the atmosphere for me.
I did block them for a period, but then just left as it was easier.

Never had the problem of toxicity on the FB hobby groups I participate in. Have experienced toxicity on fora, this one included. So in my experience the world of FB WFB/hobby sites is less toxic than the world of fora.

But toxicity is not a big concern for me, because both the forum software and the FB software make it really easy to block the toxic persons. Also I've only ever been active on fora and FB groups where the moderators did their jobs. 

-Z