Topic: The Empire of the Sword & Sun

[wilsonthenarc]

The Empire of the Sword & Sun:
A Nippon themed take on a WFB 8th Edition Empire Army

Started; September 2014.
First 2500 Points; Planned completion date, circa November 2014.

In The Warhammer Fantasy World, The Empire correlates to mostly Medievel and Renaissance time periods. It also correlates to mostly Germanic peoples, culture, and Troops. This is, of course, way cool. From the Wikipedia article, it is clearly based on the real-world medieval Holy Roman Empire.

Welllll.... in the Warhammer Fantasy World, men live all over the world. Not just on that patch of land they call "The Empire". Men live in Brettonia, which has it's own list. Men live in Kislev, that gets lumped in as a part of The Empire. So on and so on. Border Princes, Norsca... Menfolk can be found all over the world. One such place is Nippon.

Nippon is the Warhammer World equivalent of Japan. Wouldn't it be great if we could bring a Nippon army to the Battlefield?
There is so much rich Japanese military history to draw from and so much cool Japanese mythology to bring in as well.
Cause, to me, that's what makes WFB so great: a combination of historical and mythological awesomeness.

I think it would be great to field a Nippon army.
I think The Empire is the best choice as a starting point, rules wise.
I hope to bring you the process of making my 2500 point NIPPON army a reality.
Check back soon for updates!

[wilsonthenarc]

The Empire of the Sword & Sun:
2500 points, first draft army list [roster]

I know this isn't the best or one and only place for army lists, but bear with me.
I want to put the list here, so the troop types make more sense.
This army project, as a whole, has a LOT of "THIS represents THAT"

Roster Item:
General of the Empire
Mounted on a Griffon
Sword of Striking
Charmed Shield
Opal Amulet
Potion of Strength
Full Plate Armor
(329 points)

** This is a relatively easy conversion.
Take a Mounted Samurai Knight (I am using Kingsford), this is a warlord, a "Daimyo".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimyo
He will ride a Tengu, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu  For those with really good memories, I envision this to look like the "Monster in my Pocket" Tengu from the early 90s (go ahead, Google it). The best option I found for the miniature mount is from Reaper, a Brood Dragon.  http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/Reptus/latest/03539

Here is a link for Kingsford Mounted Samurai:
http://www.kingsfordminiatures.org/samurai2.html
One of these will end up being the Daimyo. Still undecided.


Next Roster Item:
Unit of Inner Circle Knights (11) led by a Captain of the Empire (1), BSB
Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Full Plate Armour; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer
1 Warhorse, 1 Luckstone (121 points)
11 Inner Circle Knights, 330 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armour)
w. Steel Standard
(451 points total)

**Again, this is a relatively straightforward conversion.
Start with standard grey plastic GW barded horses, easy enough. I have plenty of these. Take 12 of the Samurai Calvary from Kingsford, listed above. I may just order about 20 of these in a variety of styles and pick and choose what looks best. Not Sure what to arm them with, and that applies to BOTH game rules (Lances versus Great Weapons) AND to stylistically and historical accuracy. What did mounted Japanese Knights fight with? Lances? Spears? Swords? Katanas? Advice is welcome.


Next Roster Item:
Unit of DemiGryph Knights (5), with Command.
I would give them standard of Discipline, making it 325 points.
I love how this unit plays, in game. So big, so tough, great save - so many wounds. Huge fan.

**These guys are a BIG "Represents" Unit. I want Knights on Dragons.
Dragon Rider Knights are the cooolest, right?
I am still looking around for the best riders, but I am pretty sold on the mounts.
There is an Oriental Dragon from Reaper, and I love the miniature.
https://www.reapermini.com/Miniatures/dragon/latest/02794
My Knights will ride on these into battle.

I'll have to bend, twist and otherwise reposition the Dragons so that all five look slightly different.
I may have to fiddle around with the riders so they fit snugly on the Dragon's backs and so that they look appropriately ready for charging in. These need a good "ACTION" pose. Big bases here, so lots of opportunity for scenic detailing.


That brings to one more good idea for this army. I want the basing to look rocky and mountainous, in line with Japanese geography (I think, I've never been). Lots of big rocks on the bases, surrounded by gravel. The aforementioned good idea is to model just a little bit of moss on each rock.
Moss grows only on the north side of rocks. If I model the moss on the left side of the rocks on my model's bases - It subtly shows that the left side would be the North, and they would therefore be advancing from the East. This is right in line with an army from Japan, they come from the East to the Old World.

[wilsonthenarc]

Here's the simple text Roster:
2400 Pts - Empire Roster

General of the Empire (2#, 329 pts)
   1 General of the Empire, 329 pts (General; Hold the Line; Hand Weapon; Full Plate Armour)
      1 Imperial Griffon (Causes Terror; Flyer; Large Target; Swiftstride; Thunder Stomp)
      1 Sword of Striking
      1 Charmed Shield
      1 Opal Amulet
      1 Potion of Strength

Captain of the Empire (12#, 451 pts)  Captain of the Empire (Battle Standard Bearer), 121 pts (Hold the Line; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Full Plate Armour; Shield; Battle Standard Bearer)
      1 Warhorse
      1 Luckstone
   11 Inner Circle Knights, 330 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance & Shield; Full Plate Armour)
      1 Steel Standard
      11 Warhorse

Demigryph Knights (5#, 325 pts)
   5 Inner Circle Knights, 325 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Barding; Hand Weapon; Lance; Full Plate Armour; Shield)
      1 Standard of Discipline
      5 Demigryph (Armour Piercing; Causes Fear; Stomp)

Warrior Priest (21#, 329 pts)
   1 Warrior Priest, 84 pts (Battle Prayers; Hand Weapon; Heavy Armour; Shield)
      1 Dragonhelm
      1 Ironcurse Icon
   20 Greatswords, 245 pts (Always Strikes Last; Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Great Weapon; Full Plate Armour; Stubborn)
      1 Gleaming Pennant

Flagellants (30#, 448 pts)
   29 Flagellants, 348 pts (Berserk Rage; The End is Nigh!; Flail; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology; Unbreakable)
   1 Battle Wizard, 100 pts (Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon)
      1 The Lore of Beasts

State Troops (20#, 316 pts)
   19 Crossbowmen, 191 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Crossbow)
   1 Battle Wizard, 125 pts (Level 2 Upgrade; Hand Weapon)
      1 Dispel Scroll
      1 The Lore of Metal

Militia Troops (10#, 80 pts)
   10 Archers, 80 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Bow; Skirmishers; Volley Fire)

War Engines (4#, 120 pts)
   1 Great Cannon, 120 pts
      3 Crew (Hand Weapon)

Validation Report:
Edition: 8th Edition; Army Subtype: Empire Army; Game Type: Normal Game; Special Rules: Forbid Chaos Dwarfs in WoC, Forbid Regiments of Renown, Forbid Special Characters; File Version: 2.77
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
Points of Lords: 329 (0 - 600)
Points of Heroes: 430 (0 - 600)
Points of Core: 601 (600 - Unlimited)
Points of Special: 1038 (0 - 1200)
Points of Rare: 0 (0 - 600)

Total Roster Cost: 2398

[wilsonthenarc]

Next Roster Item:
Flagellants

I am very excited about these. I want a traditional Buddhist Monk. The guys that wear the bright orange robes. I want them to fight with crazy lengths of chain, which is fine to represent flails. I think I have a name for this unit: The Brotherhood of the Sacred Chain. Or maybe the Brothers of the Flying Chain. Something like that.

Obv, Buddhist Monks aren't quite identical to Flagellants with regard to how crazy they are. Normal Empire Flagellants are all about doom and gloom and the prophecy and so forth. Lots of Hatred. Lots of desire for death. I don't quite know how to explain this, as far as army fluff, but...

I do know how I want these dudes to look.
Kitbashing, go to Wargames Factory.
Take the bodies from Might of Rome > Numidians.
Take the heads and some arms and some other bits from Rising Sun >Ashigaru.
Assemble, but do not give them any weapons Just empty hands. Paint.
Add many many lengths of chains as the weapons I think this will end up looking really cool.

[Ludwig von Blucher]

This sounds cool dude. Do you know about the Indy Army Books? They are very good and they do a Nippon one...

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_Redi9cZJ5iYXlDT0xjcGxOaVE/edit


Their website is also full of cool ideas for alternative minis and stuff...

http://warhammerarmiesproject.blogspot.co.uk/

[wilsonthenarc]

This sounds cool dude. Do you know about the Indy Army Books? They are very good and they do a Nippon one...

Yes, aware of it, and digging it.

[wilsonthenarc]

Ludwig von Bulcher,
I spent some more time digging in those links, and I found these guys:
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SUM-16
By Old Glory; Ashigaru with Nagintas.

I don't know why, but I love these models. I think I might get these guys as a block of Halberdiers.
After reading about a dozen army lists and suggestions, I need me a big block of 40+ state troops.

Thanks Ludwig!

[Zak]

try looking for the old "legend of the five rings" miniatures 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=legend+of+the+five+rings+miniatures%2C+clan+wars&_from=R40%7CR40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.XL5R+clan+wars&_nkw=L5R+clan+wars&_sacat=0

[wilsonthenarc]

try looking for the old "legend of the five rings" miniatures 

Yes, agreed. OK. I am on that tonight 

[wilsonthenarc]

So, this is my first WIP (Work In Progress) post.
I actually started assembling some of my options a few weeks back.
These pictures will show a lot of grey plastic and pewter.
Not the most exciting things in the world, for all of you.
But... very useful for me to get my photography skills down and learn the best ways to upload my WIP pictures to this forum. I followed Calvin’s instructions for Photobucket.

First up – the Dragon Mounts for the Dragon Rider Knights (i.e. DemiGryph Knights):

Five of them, based up, and repositioned. I did these a few weeks ago. WooHoo for monstrous cavalry.

The Tengu, without wings:

I am going to add some feathered wings. The model came with leathery wings, and (1) I don’t like how they look, and (2) they seem very heavy and very likely to break off whilst playing games. He needs a rider too. I think I have some plastic wings in the bitz box. I might even use “Bones” wings, from Reaper as the Bones material can take a hit it the model topples to the side.

The Monks – The Flaggelants:

Kitbash of some Wargames Factory stuff and some GW stuff, previously mentioned. Still need lots of chainy bits.

Here’s the Cannon:

I think this is an old Reaper Mini kit I’ve had for some time. The Dragon’s head on the muzzle of the cannon makes it fit in with the overall Dragon theme that I have planned for a lot of the units.

Here’s a squad of 10 Archers. Kitbash. Some Wargames Factory stuff, some old GW elf heads.
Man, I wish I remember where those elf heads came from. They have cool half face masks on, and minimal pointy ears, so they look fine as humans.


Nothing too exciting here. Grey horses. The riders will look cool.

Some of these models will make it into the final army.
Some may not. I find a test unit or two is a good way to settle on color schemes and such.
Thanks for reading. More to come tomorrow.

[wilsonthenarc]

Another early stages WIP (Work In Progress) post.
More grey plastic and pewter. Tomorrow will show my first completed paint jobs.
Lots of basecoats so far, I am toooo excited to lavish time and detail on models.
Here are some crossbowmen:

These are assembled from mostly Wargames Factory Ashigaru and crossbow arms from the bitz box. I think these were dwarf crossbow arms from like 2000, circa the very first multi-part plastic dwarf clansmen boxes. I assembled about 70 axe men and had all these crossbows left over – finally, 14 years later, pay dirt!  **Overall, these are my least favorite models in my army so far. They are a fine stand in, but I need to browse pages for a better Japanese Crossbowman model.

Here is another look at the Flagellant Monks:

Cool. I am excited by these guys. I keep reading, and the “Competitive” opinion on Flagellants is LOW to very low. I think I got spoiled in the very first game I ever played, as they had a few buff spells and their re-roll hits and wounds and they massacred a horde or Orc Boys. Your mileage will vary.

Last but not least, my wizards:

The dude is my Level 2 Lore of Metal. He hides with the crossbows. His role in life is to DD anything with high armor, as many of my troops have a tough time with that. He takes the Level 0 signature spell almost every time.

The Lady is the Level 2 Lore of Beasts. She usually rides with the Flagellants, but that is flexible. Obv, Lore of Beasts works well with my Knights, the Demigryphs, and my General on Tengu (excuse me, Griffon). She takes the level 0 signature spell every time, +1S and +1T is boss. Even though it’s a loose wanky spell – I love Transformation of Kadon. It’s the only way I can field a legit Dragon in an Empire Army, excepting for Good Ol’ Karl Franzia.

[Zak]

Dude, its looking great keep posting as this army takes shape 

[wilsonthenarc]

Here are the first WIP Paint Images. I have a few units assembled and base coated. Now I just need to get my style down and take some time, and work the highlights on armor and flesh and fabric spots. Whew. Big breath out. Stay calm; it isn’t a race (yet). I often fall victim to the syndrome of: get the unit to battlefield playable and then, when I have time, go back and spend 3 or 4 hours improving on the existing paint job. Trouble is, I rarely go back.

Archers:

This is the first unit I assembled and first unit I base coated. They skirmish, so I built a custom movement tray for them so that I can use a magnetized tray and still keep them in an acceptable skirmish formation. These were also the first models in my army that I based. I am using a very dark grey color for bases (almost black) with grey stones and gravel. I think it needs a second unique bit of scenic material on each base to break them up. Maybe just different sized rocks and stones? Maybe a bit of brown? Maybe a bit of green?
Re: these archers, the pictures make the base color of my yellow and the base color of my flesh tones look way too similar. Hopefully, highlight coats will make these pop a bit better.

Characters:

Left to Right:
•   My Level 2 lore of Beasts (female), she rides with the Flagellants most often and buffs other units. Or maybe, occasionally, turns into a Dragon.
•   My Level 2 Lore of Metal (male), he rides with the crossbowmen and delivers long range hurt to heavily clad units – ideally Chaos Knights.
•   The Warrior Priest. He will accompany Greatswords. Hatred is great. Re-rolling to hit with a big strength hit is heavy duty. Excited about this model, he looks acceptably like an ancient Japanese cleric of some sort – the scroll, the spear, the raggedy beard, the flowing cloak.

Flagellants:

This is just a basecoat. Actually, I did a basecoat on these guys of orange and flesh and a few bits of brown, then tried to wash it. Well, I must have mixed the wash wrong or used an old one or used a bad brush – because it dried all streaky and looked like crap and was waaay too dark. I had to put another basecoat over the wash; it just didn’t look clean anymore. Chalk this unit up to a learning experience.
The next step for these guys is to put lengths of chain in each Monks hand and then position the chain in cool swinging positions. I don’t know if I want cool spiky bit ends on each chain, I just have to see how it looks.
I did one unit filler here – a solitary monk guarding a Shinto Gate. I built the gate out of balsa wood. It doesn’t look perfect yet. Maybe I have to re-do the filler too. Most likely not, as I just want to play with these guys and see how good (or not good they are). If they are the BOSS for me, I will likely re-do the unit from square 1. I need to get some games in!

Knights:

I painted the horses and the Knights are only primed at this point. This is my GO TO project for Thursday night and Friday night. These guys will also eventually have spears (well, Lances) and shields, as well as individual back banners.

[wilsonthenarc]

Here’s a cool one that I am starting to feel proud of – My Daimyo on Tengu. He is a General of The Empire on a Griffon, in game terms. His role is similar to the Captasus I keep hearing so much about. I like the fact that he spreads his leadership 18in over the normal 12in – a decided benefit when we have broad ranging Inner Circle Knights and Demigryph Knights running about.  His role flexes, depending on the enemy. In my games thus far, he helps combine forces for a breaking charge on infantry. Between the rider’s attacks and the griffon’s attacks + thunderstomp, it can really push a close combat decisively towards a near auto break. A dude this mobile just really fits my play style.
Here he is, a few photos of the 90% complete model:



Obv, this dude could snuff it pretty hard to opposing cannon fire.
Obv, a General of The Empire isn’t an Amazing fighter. He could beat a unit of 5 fast cavalry or a war machine, but not too much else (at least, solo).
You’ll note the wings are snagged from a Reaper Bones Griffon. This means: If the model tips to the side, the flexible wings will absorb the brunt of the impact and hopefully he can survive to wing it another day. I think about these things.

[Syn Ace]

try looking for the old "legend of the five rings" miniatures 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=legend+of+the+five+rings+miniatures%2C+clan+wars&_from=R40%7CR40%7CR40&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.XL5R+clan+wars&_nkw=L5R+clan+wars&_sacat=0

hmm I had some old samurai minis from that game somewhere.

[Zak]

 

[Timbor]

The Clan War/Legends of the Five Rings figures are very nice.  Most of the range is currently available from Valiant Enterprises: http://www.veltd.net/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36

The pricing there is much higher than the original company that carried them.  I think they are intended more for RPG use rather than mass armies, in which case the prices aren't horrible.  The figures are very nice though, and scale pretty well to WFB with the human stuff.  In fact, most of them were meant to be on 25mm bases, and hence have pretty dynamic poses.  You can usually source them pretty cheaply on ebay.

Good job on the army so far, I like how it is coming along.  For some more ideas for monster-type figures, the Kensei range looks amazing, if not a bit pricey.  They also have some decent human samurai figs too: http://kensei.zenitminiatures.es/index.php/en/

I would caution the use of Old Glory figs, as they will be noticeably small compared to a GW human.  Their cavalry especially is much smaller than GW.  The infantry you can get away with, the cavalry I would not recommend.

[Marukas]

Good ideas, looks really promising  any ideas abaut steam tank?

[Brontes]

Looks great! Looking forward to the rest of the army.

[wilsonthenarc]

Good ideas, looks really promising  any ideas abaut steam tank?

Yes, I want one! It plays great, gaming wise.
It would be a fine looking centerpiece to the army.

I seem to remember reading about Japanese "Turtle" tanks.
Analogous to "Turtle" ships, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_ship

Any ideas?
I am not sure how "Gunpowdery" a Nippon army would be.
I have a cannon, obv. Did this type of technology exist in feudal Japan?

Maybe I buy the GW model and just bitz the heck out of it.
Claim it was traded with some salty Marienburgers looking to profit.

[wilsonthenarc]

The Clan War/Legends of the Five Rings figures are very nice.  Most of the range is currently available from Valiant Enterprises: http://www.veltd.net/zencart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=36
The pricing there is much higher than the original company that carried them.

Thanks for the tip!
These folks may get more than a few of my hard earned American dollars in the very near future.
I am drooling over the Naga clan right now.  These serpentine dudes might have a place as another unit of cavalry.
Not sure what... but they look cool and are meant for 25mm x 50mm bases, methinks.

[Timbor]

I would have a look on ebay first, TBH.  There often seems to be decent sized lots of stuff going for much less than $6 a figure.

[wilsonthenarc]

Update for this week: got some more good work done. Lots of units are assembled, primed and painted. True, 85% of that is basecoats only. But, that’s just because I was in a hurry. Now that almost all of my guys in hand are base coated, I will start going back and making them look as good as I can with a finish pass or two.
Up first, my favorite unit in my army so far – Demigryph / Dragon Knights:

Dragon mounts, check. Cool riders, check. Shield, yup. Spears, yup. I put “large” stones on all of the bases and have but gravel on the base of 1 of 5 so far. The scenic modeling space on these guys is a real treat. Very happy here.
Here is a close up of the best one, so far (IMO)


Next, my samurai. These are going to be the Greatswords in my army. Led by a WP. Just some stock samurai foot soldiers. My unit is 20 right now. I am making a 2x2 (40mm x 40mm) unit filler for these guys as well so that + the WP, they would be a 5x5 block.

Here’s another picture I took of them, spread out a bit to show individual models. They still need swords and maybe some over livery. Maybe shields?



Now, for some more boring (but 100% necessary) adds: a unit of crossbowmen, a cannon and the crew, and a dragon for when my Level 2 Beasts actually gets of Transformation of Kadon.
Crossbows:

Cannon:

Dragon:


I never did get around to those Inner Circle Knights, i.e. the Mounted Samurai. That was supposed to be my Friday night project. Instead, I got drunk on cider and we had a bonfire with some friends and a couple unexpected out of town guests.

[Zak]

 

[Brontes]

Looks great! Like the WP.