Topic: Foreign Ministry

[Jerok]

Alright, concerning the Round Table alliance...

While fluffwise doing things like having your Knights swear loyalty to the Elector Counts would work very well, how to encompass this and bring it in reports to GW would be very hard. While  ican send all the messages I want to the Narrators, i'd need to show I have support.

It would, though, be easier just to state "Rumors tell that we of the Empire are being aided by the Brettonians in exchange for the regions around Marienburg." And for the Bretts, "The King has decided to aide the Empire in exchange for the regions around Marienburg." If we stuck to that it would work out very well.

[Dendo Star]

Awesome.

[farmer]

Do you think maybe GW might be lining up giving the Brettonians some sort of control of Averland. At the moment there is no Elector Count (Marius Leitdorf we will never forget you ). They had their chance to change things with the release of the NEB but did nothing leaving the province leaderless. Maybe they know something we don't 

As a Averlander myself I wouldn't mind as long as the Duke or Barron ruled under Empire law and was willing to die for Karl Franz and the Empire. How cool would it be if you could have Brettonian Knights as a core choice

[Schmeag]

Veldemere, I'm glad to see that you aren't so offended by those on the forums, but I guess I just have to say that the deadly serious approach to the campaign which seems to exist on this board does not exist on Asrai.Org, where it's a bit more lively and fluffed-up. I only really found it odd that there should be a lot of support for the Dwarfs and sought to rationalise this (with my own thoughts) in the last post I made.

Demonslayer, I'm not necessarily espousing my own views of how the Wood Elves should act in the campaign. A lot of this stuff are the perceived views of others on the Wood Elf forum. Again, as I was saying to Veldemere, I was trying to put a reason as to why there seemed to be more support for the Dwarfs. Probably the rest of my responses in this thread will be dedicated to that (also for my benefit too).

but the way I read it in the NC booklet it did not state anywhere I could find that the WE know anything about the crown, merely that they had heard of hte beastmen gaining in power, the logical ally in preventing this would be armies that traditionally fight the beasts (men) rathe than Dwarves who are rather more limited when fighting in woods.

However, with all the talk of the Nemesis Crown, they couldn't just say 'What's this?' In other words, because everyone kept on mentioning the Nemesis Crown, it would have been somewhat odd had they continued to remain in the dark. For example, when the Dwarfs mentioned that the Nemesis Crown was evil, I said, "Well that's news." I couldn't really continue to be ignorant after that.

Again I saw nothing that says you are at all concerned with the crown per se, moreso the destruction of the forest defilers.

And they were not (at least, I think, initially). However, with all this talk about alliances and mentions of the Nemesis Crown, it would get on their suspicions as something that could potentially disrupt the Wood Elven way of life (anything that results in the influx of every playable Warhammer race would certainly get their attention). Again, the Wood Elves probably do not want the Crown, but something that could have a potential to affect their woods--in fact, something of so much interest that everyone would scour a forest which is not too far off to the east--would probably be of concern to them.

All the more reason for greater ties surely?

The Barony of Nordland does NOT encompass the entire Empire, though.

Wood Elves are a distrustful bunch, as you may have garnered. Also, (still from what I recall) the Empire have been pushing the Barony of Nordland to drive the Wood Elves there out for good. Because of the isolation of the Wood Elves, the history of conflict between the Barony of Nordland and the Laurelornim--one of the few major relationships between the two races (considering that the Wood Elves are quite isolated)--may at times be viewed by others as symbolic of the relationship between Wood Elves and Men themselves. It may be unfair, but that's the way it would seem to be.

Clearly displayed by the fact that every dwarf who came too close to the trinket went insane.

I added in the qualification for a reason, you know.

Best offer we received to date, from almost EVERY race. And let's not forget the dwarves are invading us themselves. This is our land, we just sat here minding our own business when all of the sudden our former friends walked in shouting "get out of my way or get killed!" and stuff.

Well, if you were willing to give them the Crown, I'm sure they'd relent.

Druchii/ Dawi Zhar, anyone?

I do not understand your point, here. The Wood Elves have not to my knowledge even considered any form of relations with the Druchii, and no one has ever mentioned the Chaos Dwarfs at all in regards to the Nemesis Campaign.

I see now that a pact would be unsustainable with your fragmented leadership structure, we are working on a fluff pact to try and ensure that at the end of this campaign the result could potentially benefit players and not just be forgotten. If GW see a larger groundswell of players saying how they would like the game to go there is more of a chance of this happening (unlikely I know but worth a punt).

I look forward to writing too.

Schmeag

[FVC]

While fluffwise doing things like having your Knights swear loyalty to the Elector Counts would work very well, how to encompass this and bring it in reports to GW would be very hard. While  ican send all the messages I want to the Narrators, i'd need to show I have support.

True enough. In any case, I would suggest it be emphasised that Bretonnia and the Empire are not in any direct conflict. Whether this is done through explicitly stated dual allegiance or some other matter, it does not matter so much as long as the idea is communicated; that idea being, of course, that Bretonnian knights are not stealing land in the Empire. That is one thing I believe all the Round Table would like to emphasise. We are not petty thieves.

It would, though, be easier just to state "Rumors tell that we of the Empire are being aided by the Brettonians in exchange for the regions around Marienburg." And for the Bretts, "The King has decided to aide the Empire in exchange for the regions around Marienburg." If we stuck to that it would work out very well.

Again, sounds fair enough. Am I take it from this that you're perfectly amenable to Bretonnian expansion near Marienburg?

Do you think maybe GW might be lining up giving the Brettonians some sort of control of Averland. At the moment there is no Elector Count (Marius Leitdorf we will never forget you ). They had their chance to change things with the release of the NEB but did nothing leaving the province leaderless. Maybe they know something we don't

I don't believe so. For one thing, Averland is on the very other side of the Empire to Bretonnia, and it would extremely difficult to administer. The heavy mercenary presence in Averland would be distasteful to Bretonnian lords and cultural distrust between Bretonnian nobles and rural Averlanders would be a major stumbling block. Not going to happen, I'm afraid.

As a Averlander myself I wouldn't mind as long as the Duke or Barron ruled under Empire law and was willing to die for Karl Franz and the Empire.

But not, of course, in combat against Bretonnia.

How cool would it be if you could have Brettonian Knights as a core choice

How cool it would be if we could have half-decent infantry as a core choice...

[Veldemere]

I know the ministry is winding up but just a few things I have found from trawling. The Dwarves have approached the VC on 2 different forums and are still persueing. The TK approached them but they knocked them back they are making a fluff pact. The Brets have gone to the Woodies.

Finally the VC are talking about trying to register all of them in hte same region to increase their impact, whilst this could be a pain I suspect it would backfire on them as their reports were all from Australia (say) but the corresponding bat rep was from UK or US etc.

[wissenlander]

Not sure if you're allowed to take an entire forum and have them post in one section.  Sounds a bit odd to me.

Schmeag, he was talking about the fact that elves and dwarfs also have 'dark' brethren, not just men.  Nothing to do with alliance offers and such.

And after the corner we were backed into, to promise the crown completely would've put us in a bind.  We would've been completely contradicting what hand we were given.  A Council of the Wise (LotR I know) was the best call for us and no one wanted it because of our 'tainted ways.'  I won't get in the discussion again because I've discussed in numerous times elsewhere, but you get my point.

[Warlord]

How cool would it be if you could have Brettonian Knights as a core choice

How cool it would be if we could have half-decent infantry as a core choice...

Its good to see that we both would find this relationship mutually beneficial 

[Jerok]

Again, sounds fair enough. Am I take it from this that you're perfectly amenable to Bretonnian expansion near Marienburg?

You are perfectly right.

The heavy mercenary presence in Averland would be distasteful to Bretonnian lords

And Marienburg does't have Mercs? Hah! They are as close as it comes to Mercenaries Inc.

Anyways, about this 'everyone in one region' approach.

First off, if they did that, as has already been pointed out, they would constantly be playing people from other regions, and therefore be found out. They would also not be able to formaly participate in region-events, which would really suck for them.

Finally, if they actually did it, I would rat them out  Hey, that's how I roll. If you do something dumb, i'll lash out.

[Tostig]

On the subject of Mercenaries, might I point you in the direction of the alliance/Entente Lucrial between the Dwarfs and the Ogres, not to mention the mercurial promises they've been making to everyone, good or evil?

Good to see that honour and nobility are high concerns for those of the old oaths.

[Wyzer1]

I am starting to wonder the mental state of the dwarfs over there... whether they are, how do we say, tainted?

[CaptScott]

Have we sent any official communication to all other races/sites yet?  If not I believe the following points should be worked into one and sent post-haste.

1. First and foremost we have to remind all foreign races and kingdoms that this is OUR territory, and such;

i) All enemies of the Empire will be destroyed on sight.

ii) All foreign parties with whom we have good relations will be given the option of retreat or destruction.

iii) Allied parties will have restricted access to Empire lands, and will at all times be subject to the rule of our most glorious Emperor Karl Franz.

Glory to the Empire!

[Schmeag]

Have we sent any official communication to all other races/sites yet?  If not I believe the following points should be worked into one and sent post-haste.

I think they've just about finished.

Schmeag, he was talking about the fact that elves and dwarfs also have 'dark' brethren, not just men.  Nothing to do with alliance offers and such.

Ah, the thing about Druchii, Asur and Asrai is that they are in fact near-immune to corruption. It is just the curse of Aenarion that makes them act the way they do--they've adapted differently.  I have absolutely no idea about the Dawi and the Dawi Zharr, but my statement about Men being susceptible to corruption still stands.

[wissenlander]

Oh yes, Aenarion.  The most tragic Elf figure. 

There's no doubt that men are susceptable to corruption.  I just think everyone should remember who the first line of defense has been the last couple thousand years.  And yes, I know that the Elves have always been there as the first line of defense, but let's be honest.  When the hordes of chaos come sweeping from the north where do they hit first?  Kislev.  Kislev an ally of the Empire, both human nations.

[Schmeag]

Yes, that is why I (can't speak for-- you get the point ) am going to give preference to killing 'evil' races as opposed to Men. After a poll on Asrai.Org that I think you've seen, many would--oddly enough--seem to agree with me. I've already made all the points in favour of my view of the how the Asrai should work, and most of what has already been said here in regards to the relationship between Men and the Asrai have been covered. Outside fluff terms though, I don't think pacts are going to do much. The best we can do is probably include it in the fluff that we write.

[wissenlander]

Understood.  Complicated, this campaign is (nice Yoda skeak, eh?).  Old fluff is conflicting with new fluff and it's got many reeling.  I think we can write supporting fluff somewhere down the line of some Wood Elf kindred war bands aiding a convoy in the woods being attacked by beastmen.  Twists and turns through out this whole campaign.  I can see it coming.

[Dendo Star]

Understood.  Complicated, this campaign is (nice Yoda skeak, eh?).  Old fluff is conflicting with new fluff and it's got many reeling.  I think we can write supporting fluff somewhere down the line of some Wood Elf kindred war bands aiding a convoy in the woods being attacked by beastmen.  Twists and turns through out this whole campaign.  I can see it coming.

Rockin'.

[tyurtddr]

here is my 10 cents on allies
the WE in my opinion are to few in number to help
the HE and dwarfs would be good fluff alliances

and about handing over marienburg to the brets, i wouldnt want to fluff wise. the river reik goes through there and it is the main way our fleet gets to the ocean, so they could blokade our entire fleet......

p.s. im a bretonnian player as well (please dont kill me)

[FVC]

To clarify, we are not aiming to conquer the city of Marienburg itself, merely to push back the border of the Marches of Couronne. For your reference, here's the GW Old World map, upon which I have marked the area we are interested in. The blue line marks the current border between Bretonnia and the Wasteland. The red area is where we would like to move it to.



You will, of course, notice that the red expansion does not impinge upon Imperial territory at all, nor does it involve taking the city of Marienburg. Marienburg would surely be very unhappy with this, but the border to the Marches has been contested for centuries.

The series of purple dots in Reikland indicate that we would, with your kind permission, like to expand Bretonnia's influence in that region by allowing our nobles to swear allegiance to Imperial lords as well, to better aid and protect the people of the Empire.

[Dendo Star]

Now, with all due respect, we are not allowing any expansion into the land where we already live.

We will assist you good men in securing any territory about The Wasteland, The Badlands or in the Southlands that is not already claimed by Araby however.  This includes the Land Of The Dead.  Any General Of The Empire would lend thier men to a campaign to assist in establishing Dukedoms in The Land Of The Dead without hesitation.  However, no attempts shall be made nor assisted by us to claim Jungles inhabited by the Lizard-folk who dwell within. 

The Border Princes are another matter all together.  With so many established settlements and claims to territory there, We would propose any talks held on this subject be regarded as a completely separate manner.  However, should  Noble Bretonnia seek to secure lands in the Border Princes, well then there is simply no conflict of interest whatsoever.  All The Emperor asks is that partition of the Border Princes not be considered until after this war has passed, Sigmar and Lady willing we are victorious.  May the Great Creator of us all see fit to have it so.



May our two great nations together stem this tide of Evil,

Simon "Donnerhertz" Rodimutz, Sub-Commander Of Helstrom's 4th, humble soldier of the Emperor Karl-Franz




 

[Veldemere]

On a note of caution whilst I think it would be beneficial for men to work together, Marienberg is not ous to give away anyway.

Bear in mind how incensed we were when the Dwarves were promising tracts of the Empire to anyone who would talk to them, we should not do the same thing.

I have no interest in any of the lands outside the Empire and that is of interest only to the Bretonnians, but beware with touching land to the south of the Empire for Solland will one day be re-established!

[wissenlander]

Yeah, well fellas, something's got to give.  I believe that what the Bretonnians ask is paltry compared to what it could've been.  Maybe the location of territories in the Empire are up for debate but let's be honest with ourselves.  The one hinge factor for this treaty (GW has set it up this way unfortunately) is land.  If we say we won't give them any Imperial land or  help them or support them in a campaign against Marienburg, that leaves us only with the Badlands/Border Princes.  I couldn't see anyone want to move into the Wastelands, for it's the Wastelands.

Instead of lands in the Reikland, what about areas that Bretonnians have helped us 'reclaim' in the Great Forest?

While I agree with the fact we shouldn't be 'giving' lands away when it doesn't belong to us there are a few key issues in this matter.  Marienburg isn't really a playable faction.  You can argue that DoW are or even some Empire armies, but it's not really.  They're on a lower rung then Kislev in that regard.  Another issue is that the area has been contested for some time and leaves some doubt as to who should actually own the lands.

Relations with Marienburg aren't the greatest anyways, at least I don't think.  The Elector of Nordland will be put to the sword if he goes near the place.

So I do understand the merits and honor of the situation, but we're going to have to find a compromise or we're going to stop a potential alliance dead in its tracks.

[FVC]

Regarding Marienburg, we are not asking you to give the city to us. It is not part of the Empire and you have no jurisdiction there. All we ask is that you do not oppose our expansion in that area. As that expansion would be at the expense of a long-time rival of yours, I hope it's not too much to ask.

As for land in the Empire, the deal we are proposing is really quite simple. You agree that any Imperial citizens who choose, of their own free will, to swear allegiance to Bretonnian nobles, may do so. (Naturally, said nobles will also swear allegiance to all relevant Imperial lords.) In exchange, we aid you militarily in your conflicts.

(Though it should be noted that such military aid, at present, would be restricted entirely to battles against 'evil' forces, such as orcs, goblins, beastmen, skaven, Chaos, Dark Elves, and so forth. The debate over whether or not we could aid you against dwarfs or other such races is raging.)

Instead of lands in the Reikland, what about areas that Bretonnians have helped us 'reclaim' in the Great Forest?

I believe we wound accept that. The idea was never to march in and take prosperous, peaceful villages of the Empire, but to help protect villages from danger, and in return receive the feudal due.

[wissenlander]

I personally see this as acceptable.  We won't interfere with Bretonnian actions against Marienburg and they can have lands that they themselves helped defend, while swearing loyalty to the Elector.

I don't think it will be terribly hard to incorporate into fluff. 

[Dendo Star]

You are correct Wiss.  We must compromise.  I agree to terms presented by The Round Table regarding the present Knight's Errant War.

However, a situation has arisen that throws all this to the wayside.  Settra lands at Marienburg.

Bretonnia!  We must divert all our forces available to combat this unHoly invasion!  By call of The Emperor himself we ask for all Knights Of Bretonnia to assist in defense of the Wasteland!  For If Settra attacks now, soon the Chaos Elves will attack and then the Norse Raiders and Chaos forces will grow bold...

Please!  Noble Knights Of Bretonnia!  May we stop all talk of new lands until these threats from the Great Ocean are destroyed!  Your Knights Errant are already in the east of The Empire.  Please, divert those forces to the sea!  Without your support Marienburg may fall to Dark powers...

For who are we to refuse a challenge from such forces of Evil?  Are not Sigmar and The Lady both enraged by such attacks?  For if we do not act quickly there may be no Knights to become Dukes and no Empire left to defend.  Are we so blinded by glory and pride we fail to see what must be done?!

We must stand united!  Hammer to Lance!  This is our finest hour!