Warhammer-Empire.com
Galactic Conflict & Historical Games ... => Warhammer 40k Discussion => Topic started by: MrDWhitey on January 24, 2010, 03:17:29 PM
-
Much like world of warcraft sucks when compared to playing AD&D (or any other fantasy role-playing game you sit around a table playing). Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.
Amusingly a lot of 40k players say that about Fantasy. :engel:
-
Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.
:icon_lol:
I will give your crack dealer a score of 5 out of 5 for a well developed drug.
You obviously have been watching tards play if you say that, or have no idea what the game is about.
I play both and have more tactical ideas for 40K than vice versa.
-
I find 40k more varied and tactical too, purely because it's more balanced.
With WFB, the tactics for me are 'Oh, hey, DE/DoC/VC/Lizardmen/Insert Army Here yet again, how should I prolong the inevitable?'....
-
I love 40k and have slowly stopped playing fantasy because of it.
The main reason for me thinking 40k is better is the difference in the movement. The movement in fantasy is so idiotic and difficult. Whereas 40k movement is nice and easy skirmisher movement. Which makes the game much more fast and dynamic. Which i like.
-
Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.
:icon_lol:
I will give your crack dealer a score of 5 out of 5 for a well developed drug.
You obviously have been watching tards play if you say that, or have no idea what the game is about.
I play both and have more tactical ideas for 40K than vice versa.
I can't complain about my crack dealer.
40k tactics?
Dig in and shoot?
Use tanks?
Why bother? Why not just nuke the whole board in one go...
Sorry. I'm just being obnoxious. I had food poisoning and my arse feels like Big Bad Bill has been stretching it without lubricant the whole bloody weekend (and you don't want to know the rest).
-
(and you don't want to know the rest).
You obviously don't know me.
Talk to me...
-
(and you don't want to know the rest).
You obviously don't know me.
Talk to me...
I spent six hours puking my guts out. One moment I puked so hard that I sucked my pants up my arse and the next moment I shat that hard I blew the toilet door a second keyhole.
-
I need a new pair of shorts.
Thanks for sharing.
-
:-D
Had an awesome game today, 2v2 1k a player.
Tank shocked a squad of 14 necrons off the board with a 35 point rhino.
Yes!
Aldaris, I hope my daemon prince does better against you though... he met the Nightbringer. :icon_frown:
-
Tank shocked a squad of 14 necrons off the board with a 35 point rhino.
That's awesome. I've only ever played Necrons once, with my IG. He had tons of Destroyers (are those the ones with the Multilaser equivalent?) and the Nightbringer. And he rolled like God for his saves and I'll BE BACK rolls.
It was not pretty.
-
Yeah, 3 shot strength 6 but AP 4.
My ally was tau, and he was absolutely slaughtered. :-D
Constantly driving up, tank shock/prepare, disembark, re-embark next turn and zoom off was fun.
-
Yes, that's how I love to play 40k: mounted-up maneuver warfare. Last game I managed - after one turn of setting him up which he fortunately didn't spot - to cut off a large portion of his force by blocking all access off with my tanks, dismounting and slaughtering them in isolation before he managed to get reinforcements there since he had to go all the way around. After that it was wipe-time. Was a Chaos mirror-match, so especially satisfying.
Anyone who says there are no tactics in 40k doesn't know what he's talking about.
-
Anyone who says there are no tactics in 40k doesn't know what he's talking about.
Anyone who plays 40k secretly wears women's knickers and doesn't shave his balls.
-
It's no secret for me. :engel:
-
It's no secret for me. :engel:
You don't shave your balls?
Pffft... how terribly 80's.
-
It's no secret for me. :engel:
You don't shave your balls?
Pffft... how terribly 80's.
*Insert Duke Nukem reference here*
Yes, that's how I love to play 40k: mounted-up maneuver warfare. Last game I managed - after one turn of setting him up which he fortunately didn't spot - to cut off a large portion of his force by blocking all access off with my tanks, dismounting and slaughtering them in isolation before he managed to get reinforcements there since he had to go all the way around. After that it was wipe-time. Was a Chaos mirror-match, so especially satisfying.
Anyone who says there are no tactics in 40k doesn't know what he's talking about.
There is strategy, just in different ways from fantasy. And those ways just happen to be the ones I'm not good at... :dry:
-The General
-
Anyone who plays 40k secretly wears women's knickers and doesn't shave his balls.
The secret is being able to wear womens knickers and still be manly. And if you shave your balls you're an effeminate metrosexual. Who still doesn't know what he's talking about.
:icon_cool:
And am I noticing some topicname changing contest going on here? If there is, stop bothering. There is no fightin' the ninja mod edit.
-
40k is just as complicated as fantasy, just in different ways.
Phil
-
In better ways IMO, since even the weakest army can subdue another, all depending on composition and tactics.
-
I 100% agree.
Phil
-
In better ways IMO, since even the weakest army can subdue another, all depending on composition and tactics.
Really?
I've been struggling to get into 40k because I don't feel the same tactical depthness toward 40k that fantasy has.
I mean I have quite a bit of 40k but have no motivation whatsoever to play. My mates who play all say there are armies much like TK or O&G in 40k as well, Grey Knights, Necrons, Tau for example.
-
Yep. No matter many wounds or what armour save the nasty has, your 5 point guardsman can always just take a plasma gun.
-
They may be gimped armies, but Grey Knights in particular have options (aka being taken as allies) that make them much more effective.
Oh, and Tau are absolutely 100% ass-raping nasty in the right hands. The local guy who plays them... *shivers*
And 'Crons are, if nothing else, hideously tough.
Also, most people don't interpret their WBB rule correctly. IIRC, the way it's phrased you can't be killed by sweeping advances or something like that. Which makes them much better in CC than they would appear.
-
My mates who play all say there are armies much like TK or O&G in 40k as well, Grey Knights, Necrons, Tau for example.
There are some races stronger or weaker in 40k, but in my opinion it is nowhere near as pronounced as it is in Fantasy. Most older races can still compete fairly well, albeit with a handicap.
I like both games. Fantasy is more complex, but 40k has its own unique challenges and twists and is fast and fun to play. Plus there are tons of awesome models.
-
I have about 2000 points steel legions IG lying around bought the rulebook and the IG army book but havenīt found the courage to play the game yet.
Also with IG I donīt know what I should field somehow too much candy and I donīt know what is really needed in a 1500 game and how the resonance of special characters is.
Usarkar Creed looks nasty 40 infantry guys with kommisar and sarge also seem quite nasty
did I get it right that there is no way to pick those two out of the regiment in close combat?
I mix up last edition rules with the new ones all the time in my head.
-
You can target independent characters in cc, but only if you are in btb with them.
That said, Creed propably isn't the best choice in a 1500 points game - too expensive in my opinion. Unless you have a specific theme or strategy in mind, keep the HQ simple and useful. Give them a standard for those 12" leadership rerolls, and something to make use of that BS4, a lascannon is a nice example, a couple of meltas is another. Sit their asses in a chimera in the middle of your line. Done. Don't give in to the temptation of spending tons of points on stuff like carapace and powerfists for your boss. If he ends up being engaged he's toast anyway unless you specifically build him and his squad for that.
-
Yea the only IC of the IG that you can target is the lord commisar, primaris psyker, tech priest and priest guy.
I play Grey knights and they are awfully overpriced but are still a very mobile and versatile force. Storm bolters on the whole army makes it possible to run around and avoid some charges and add some more shooting rounds.
They are having problems against orks and a horde IG army, because their troops are so expensive that you dont have enough firepower! But then you just have to think tactical.
My Grey knights are doing fairly against my opponents, but as T1million said, they can be included in an IG army for extra punch. But only the termies are worth investing in, and points well spend in my mind! It just sucks they cant have a dedicated landraider.
Anyway Fandir, I thought the same way about the IG as you do, too many choices to try out! But just start trying! Im beginning to like a mechanised force. My infantry army is suffering alot of losses.
Hmm and vendettas are awesome. Dont bother getting 3 lascannons in a heavy weapon team for 105 pts when you can get 3 twinlinked, mobile, almost free LoS cannons for 130pts
-
Hmm and vendettas are awesome. Dont bother getting 3 lascannons in a heavy weapon team for 105 pts when you can get 3 twinlinked, mobile, almost free LoS cannons for 130pts
Dedicated HWTs are a risky proposal in general, killed much too easily since they now count as 3 2w models. One exception: Mortar teams. Those are cheap, awesome and don't need LOS. Otherwise, get heavy weapons as part of infantry squads.
As for the Vendetta, I really want to get 2 of them. Problem is cost. 2*35 pounds for the basic models, 2*12 pounds for the Forgeworld conversion kit + 6 for the decals (I like those patterns for the wings). That's 100 pounds for 2 models.
I will do it someday though...
-
Yes i have also found out how awesome mortars can be :-D
I tend to put some 3 autocannons in cover somewhere just incase i go against orks with alot of trucks.
But yea instant death is their bane :/
Hmm i got two :D
I used the lascannons from the landraider sponsons and put them under the vendetta. Im going to use some lascannons from the heavy weapons for the other one i think :P
-
There was a "Ritt der Walküren" Deal on Waylanders three for 65 pounds during a time 1 pound = 1 or at least close to but I wasnīt liquid at that moment.
I thought that some scout sentinels with lascannon and hunter missle on flanking duty might be my tank busters...I have the models as the stahllegion sentinel was the one with lascannon (he has the closed cupola but I think my enemies will let them through as scout sentinels).
Other than that I like infantry ...loads of them right now I only have ~50 models and 20 cadians I havenīt put together yet, I would like to add some deathkorps of krieg as soon I swim in money my warhammer fantasy armies are completely painted and I have started to play 40K.
....
Damn I sound like Mathi.
-
Yea there are some nice deals around in the world :P
i usually equip my scout sentinels with autocannons. They are cheap and fire twice the shots of a lascannon. And in my experience, they end up in some good positions where S9 isnt that important.
-
But you always get that 10 you need at least, donīt you?
So infantry with mortars and some scout sentinels with lascannons and hunter missles (do I need theses?) should be enough to deal with most threa(d)ts? I also have a single demolisher lying around and an exterminator leman russ.
The commisar and the sarge are no independent characters so can the enemy single them out or does he have to kill all 40 soldiers of the unit to get them done?
Creed has 24 inch command range and 4 orders also that one that gives a unit furious assault (or what it is called) giving them +1 I and +1 S on the charge (great for the 40 mobster unit with the 6 power weapon attacks).
-
10 what?
In my mind Scout sentinels need to be cheap. They are too fragile to spend a lot of points on. So no hunter killers.
You are correct about the commissars and sergeants. They cant be targeted out in cc or shooting. This is the what the orks do with their powerklaw nobs in normal units. They protect the single ork that kills everything. :P
Its just a shame IG cant get powerfists on sergeants and squad commissars.
If you are going to get into close combat use Straken. He is awesome. And gives furious charge and counter attack to people 12" around him. And get a priest :P
-
I tend to equip my scout sentinels with multilasers or autocannons, for several reasons. First, it's cheap. Scout sentinels are armored with wet toilet paper, they'll blow up as soon as someone looks at them in a threatening way. Because of that, you will almost always lose them. Quickly. So keep them expendable.
Second, they have BS 3. That means only a 50% to hit chance, with a high propability they'll never fire off another shot. That means that more shots are better than a single high-powered one. Penetrating an AV of 10 with S 6 or 7 is still very feasible.
Lascannons are so expensive you want them on units that have one or preferably both of those qualifications: good shots and/or durable. Scout sentinels are neither. That said, if you don't outflank, but deploy them in cover as part of your line they can actually be pretty good with lascannons. Because then they are durable. Sort of.
On the subject of HK missiles: depends on taste really. If you have the points left over, go for 'em.
-
If you give them camo nettings and deploy them in terrain they have a 3+ ward save right?
If I move I canīt use the camo nettings but still would have a 4+? So with lascannons and camo nettings popping out somewhere in the back moving in terrain and shooting the las cannons wouldnīt be such a bad plan?
I think I just have to make a few games and see how it works.
But right now I am happy enough that I can play a game of fantasy once in a while.
-
Fantasy is more complex, but 40k has its own unique challenges and twists and is fast and fun to play. Plus there are tons of awesome models.
How is fantasy more complex? Because everything moves on angles?
Phil
-
Every unit has a different move profile in 40k there are less rules and stats.
Complexity doesnīt have to be good though.
-
How is fantasy more complex? Because everything moves on angles?
Phil
Fantasy is more complex because it has more rules and exceptions to them than 40k. Movement is more complex, there is a separate magic phase, characters can be equipped for a variety of different jobs, different models have different move characteristics...
Keep in mind I do not say this in a context judging quality. Being more or less complex does not make a better or worse game.
-
There are many movement profiles in 40k:
Jump troops
Beasts
Infantry
Vehicles
Fast Vehicles
Skimmers
Squadrons
As for more rules, I don't really think so. I think they have the same number of rules. Whether thats all that pertinent to the complexity or not is another story.
Phil
-
There are many movement profiles in 40k:
Jump troops
Beasts
Infantry
Vehicles
Fast Vehicles
Skimmers
Squadrons
As for more rules, I don't really think so. I think they have the same number of rules. Whether thats all that pertinent to the complexity or not is another story.
Phil
Yes philly but ALL jump troops have the same movement and ALL vehicles and ALL infantry
if you start with the different unit types
infantry (with movement value of 3-6 sometimes even in the army different M types)
cavalry (7-10 again with different M values in the same army, equipment also modifies)
monsters (usually 6...but hey there are exceptions again and even funky stuff with 2d6 or 3d6 movement)
chariots
flyers
flying monsters
....
etc.
Every army behave completely different there are lots of armies with no shooting at all the magic in WFB is lots complexer than the 40K one (ok I cast one of the three spells I have).
-
Hmm and vendettas are awesome. Dont bother getting 3 lascannons in a heavy weapon team for 105 pts when you can get 3 twinlinked, mobile, almost free LoS cannons for 130pts
Dedicated HWTs are a risky proposal in general, killed much too easily since they now count as 3 2w models. One exception: Mortar teams. Those are cheap, awesome and don't need LOS. Otherwise, get heavy weapons as part of infantry squads.
As for the Vendetta, I really want to get 2 of them. Problem is cost. 2*35 pounds for the basic models, 2*12 pounds for the Forgeworld conversion kit + 6 for the decals (I like those patterns for the wings). That's 100 pounds for 2 models.
I will do it someday though...
I've never had problems with mine somehow. Cover always seems to be enough.
That said, I generally play a spread passive offensive style, so...
And I haven't faced anyone with serious pieplate power. Yet.
-
Fandir: It the movement differences between a M4 and M5 are enough to be termed more complicated than transports and when they can embark and disembark, or the various deep strike rules, then you are correct.
Phil
-
If you have to remember what each model has as M yes it gets difficult.
40K once you have a hang how a certain type of unit moves you are set the embark disembark rule isnīt more complicated as the enter and leave building rules.
Deepstrike is as complicated as tomb scorpions entering the table, place spot deviate check if they survive and voila done!
40K has way more weapons in its arsenal though ....at least ranged weapons close combat is kind of cc weapon, power weapon, power fist ....isnīt it?
-
No...
There are different CC rules for fighting vehicles, various different close combat weapons, poisoned weapons, special rules (furious charge, counter attack, etc.).
It's just as complicated as fantasy, especially as fantasy doesn't use half the weapons listed most of hte time.
-
Be that as it may, most people seem to feel that 40k is simpler rules-wise than Fantasy. But I certainly don't feel like comparing the number of rules to prove a pretty unimportant point...
t12846t94: a single Dreadnought (or worse, an ironclad) dropping down in a pod with a deathwind system can really, REALLY ruin your day. Make that two, and you can basically kiss the ass of all that expensive yet fragile infantry stuff goodbye.
-
ahhh the almighty everpresent halberd.
I think most subjectively /or objectively ( :closed-eyes:) think WFB is more complex because of the whole process of moving. Even if 40K has some pretty exact rules for moving too most people just grab their squad and place it 6 " (or whatever the special rules out of the vast amount of rules :engel: allows it ) and place them there.
grab place
grab place
grab place
-
Be that as it may, most people seem to feel that 40k is simpler rules-wise than Fantasy. But I certainly don't feel like comparing the number of rules to prove a pretty unimportant point...
Most people on forums have a bias towards fantasy and also like to claim the majority of 40k players are Timmy. Mature 40k players on the other hand will acknowledge that the two games are equally complicated.
As for movement being so complicated to remember, dwarves have M3. That was hard. Empire has 4, 7, and 8. Oh and they have fliers and a stank. Not hard. DE have M5, 6, 7, and 9 plus fliers. You can think of the movement numbers in your head without trouble. It isn't like it adds anymore complication than memorizing the WS comparison chart, which everyone knows.
Phil
-
Mature 40k players on the other hand will acknowledge that the two games are equally complicated.
Oh dear. Will I have to shave and speak in a higher voice now?
-
That wasn't aimed at anyone here. It is simply the observation that most people who make that comment have not played both systems enough to honestly say either way. The common refrain is just "40k is for teh kids." without a thought. Many of those people haven't used 5th edition and don't really have a clue.
Phil
-
Fandir nailed it.
I hate having to Wheel, turn, reform or whatever to just get that excact angle to overrun into another enemy (which you then debate with your opponent for 15 minutes).
The other problem is that there are too many movement rules in general! Its not just the movement rate, thats easy enough, but the actions i mentioned before. They are all complicated. How many models kan you swap to the front rank with the expand frontage thing?.
We have to look that up all the time.
When we play 40k we sometimes check the book once to find something really odd or specific wording. When playing fantasy we end up checking the book several times just to check on how the "basic" movement actions actually are!
I realise 40k has its complicated rules as well but in general i think 40k is easier to learn than fantasy...
Another important thing about 40k vs. fantasy is that you NEVER use the terrain in fantasy! You avoid it like the plauge. Half movement and for what? a minus to hit modifier to the enemy? Shooting isnt even that important in fantasy.
In 40k models are litterally tumble over eachother in the terrain so they can get their precious coversave.
It just gives the whole game another feel. Less static and more dynamic. Some guardsmen running through some craters or basilisks making new ones!
-
That wasn't aimed at anyone here. It is simply the observation that most people who make that comment have not played both systems enough to honestly say either way. The common refrain is just "40k is for teh kids." without a thought. Many of those people haven't used 5th edition and don't really have a clue.
Phil
That post I can agree with.
-
40K has way more weapons in its arsenal though ....at least ranged weapons close combat is kind of cc weapon, power weapon, power fist ....isnīt it?
Actually it gets a bit complicated when calculating attack bonusses. You only get an attack bonus if you have two powerfists. But can get a bonus for a CCW and powerweapon if im not mistaken. Or pistol.
-
Nobody in here said that 40k is easier or less tactical hence the wording "complex" Aldaris used. I know Philly that lots of WFB players put 40k in the little timmy corner I donīt because I know there are loads of measure / countermeasure stuff you have to think about making the game very tactical, but the fumbling around during a WFB movement phase IS definitaley more complex. (Also most warhammer fantasy players do it wrong ....do wheels by turning on the spot and overall place the unit how they want it to be ignoring most of the wheel and turn rules.....even on tournaments).
-
The word fumbling is appropriate and the reason I find WFB less sophisticated than 40k.
Phil
-
The word fumbling is appropriate and the reason I find WFB less sophisticated than 40k.
Phil
With the right people = less fumbling but still there are quite often issues that need the rulebook.
Somehow I still go back to WFB again and again I think I like the combat.....well I liked the combat more because static CR was more important than pure killingness.
-
Well, I must say I find 40K more fun because of the simple fact that tactics, placement and such things do matter even if you have way more scary enemies. Guardsmen can still outfight what should be their "betters" in Fantasy, without the need to relly on heroes and gimmicks. In 40K, there is always a decent chance of winning, even with lowly guardsmen.
In fantasy, without a shitload of heroes, warmachines and other stuff, your state troops are toast, to the extent that you need to have balls of steel to field them, cause they will drag down your combat capacity.
In 40K, your grunts ARE your combat capacity. Sure, you can smack down elites, tanks, monsters and whatnot, but in the end, more often than not, it is the lowly grunts that win the game for you.
Not so in Warhammer.
Hence why I love 40K and find it really more satisfying and tactical.
-
Just to recount my experiencesin 5th Ed (never played 4th only 3rd) I've got Tau and Nids (which I'm selling btw).
While there is undoubtably thought that goes into the game in the few game I've played it's always come down to "how much will I loose in his turn and how much of his stuff can I kill in mine" unlike certain games of fantasy (I realize I'm not making myself clear so will leave this analogy).
Maybe i'm just unhappy with 40k due to gaming reasons my last game with nids was against a competitive Guard army (noidea if it was or wasn't but I was told it was competitive). My nids just had to run to get in combat, evening hugging cover and trying to shoot at his stuff with my deathspitters and barbed stranglers the game devolved into a "I move forward, you shoot, I take some models off, I move forward again, O look I get to charge, kill you, now I'm in the open, I'll take those models off, I'll move forward again..."
TBH it bored the living snotlings out of me.
That said I played a Space Wolves Drop Pod assault against a Tau force last week and that was a lot of fun.
-
What kind of game were you playing? And you needed the new book. Last edition Tyranids was kind of shit, particularly against the new IG.
Phil
-
Not sure, I'm still pretty nooby at 5th Ed, most of the general rules I know but some of the finesse escapes me.
I'm thinking I may give it another go after April, see how things go.
Hey I was just thinking about this. But do you think some of the mentality of Fantasy > 40k is based on fluff?
40k has great fluff and from what I've seen players find it easier to fit 'movie moments' in their 40k games compared to Fantasy. I know that this is true where i'm at, 40k is the fun game fantasy is the 'mathematical' game.
-
Yea perhaps.
But those movie movements could also happen in fantasy. In challenges for example. Its just that... well we have no chance against that chaos lord so we dont do it :P
-
I can imagine it now.
Standing before the heroic Captain Kurt Stutgart, the dreaded Chaos Lord Malre who had spent the past 10 years terrorising the Empire.
Malre noticed this stout figure amongst the throng of empire swordsmen, and cleared a space around him and beckoned to the Captain with a flourish of his sword that ended in a salute.
Kurt reacted in the only way a true soldier of the empire would
"Sergeant Stoutfellow!"
"Sir?"
"Stand in front of me"
-
HAhhahahahaha :D
-
hahah
very well played sir. I'd doff my hat to you had tere been a correct smilely.
-
I right now imagine the dread an empire soldier feels when he is promoted to Sergeant...
"Oh noooooo but I have family, please pick Hans over there he is better suited to lead this regiment!"
"Hans sits in a wheelchair!"
"Yes that is what I am talking about he is a bigger target for the lookout sir mission!"
-
Much like world of warcraft sucks when compared to playing AD&D (or any other fantasy role-playing game you sit around a table playing). Instead of an intricately balanced game, it's a hack & slash botch job.
Amusingly a lot of 40k players say that about Fantasy. :engel:
To be honest, the two systems are similar and different, depending on how one views it. I'm beginning to wonder why its even worth making those kinds of statements. Some folks will like one over the other, some folks will like both. The systems are different enough where it forces different tactics and that's probably a good thing. Also, it seems natural that as the systems develop and change, that imbalances are going to occur because of the various armies having different rules. I'm sensing that this kind of thing seems to occur as such things happen in real life, too. :icon_cool:
-
The reason why I didn't like 40k was that armies tended to be either gunlines, or close combat.
And the games basically consisted of either "my gun line killed enough of you before you got into combat, I win"
or "oh, my gunline didn't kill enough of you. Know I will be mashed in CC"
BUT obviously I havent played the new edition, and the objective system was probsably implemented to combat that exact problem.
-
Gunlines have been nerfed somewhat by the proliferation of cover, and the need to move to capture objectives. On the other hand, real line of sight often allows shooting at models that would not have been targettable in the previous edition. CC armies have been nerfed by eliminating the possibility to consolidate into another combat after winning one. On the other hand vehicles got more durable, making it easier for transports to actually transport troops where you want them.
Add to that the objective based victory conditions that don't give a rats ass about how much you killed 66% of the time, and the game has become rather interesting.
-
Men.....we have a mission....and I donīt care how many of you peons die we will achieve this mission!
*cheers of the soldiers that only listened to the heroic tone of the speech*
Hmmm I might bring some 40k to the bash too.
-
I think someone above nailed one difference truly. 40K feels much more cinematic. It is much more up close and personal. Fast paced, shrapnel flying. How many will make it through the barrage?
Warfare is bloody and 40k makes it really bloody. How many men will you have left? That is sort of what is in the mind of many commanders. I belive 40K catches the feel of ugly and brutal war much better than Fantasy.
The movement rules in Fantasy also makes the game more abstract. It feels like a large scale wargame, lumbering formations moving and turning, the combat have become abstracted to increase speed of play etc... Still, GW have droped any mentioning of a scale in the game and many say it is a One to One relationship, which makes it utter BS!
A small unit of formed men WILL change formation much faster than a large one and the unit commander will know instantly when his unit is ready for next command.
The larger the formation, the longer the formation change, the longer the order for wheeling will take to make it through etc...
If GW treated WHFB like a scaled game, with say one mini representing 10 soldiers or something, and adapted the game accordingly, it would make more sense and be more cohesive.
40K basically works on a One to One basis, and since it uses the dynamics of modern warfare with loose firing lines, assumes soldiers will usually make the most of cover and such, the game works much more fluently.
Also, even if we say the movements are simplified to unit types, things gets more uncertain because when some special rules for terrain kicks in. How long will my men move? Will the get past that wall or will the squad end up straddling it? If I run I might make it into the cover and claim the objective, but what if I donīt and get stranded before the barrels of that Heavy bolter squad?
And even when you got units that can fleet, like Eldars. What if I donīt make it into contact and end my charge a few inches before that line of Tau pulse rifles
Lots of things to consider and I feel it is not dissimilar from the modern combat enviorment. And tactical desicions ainīt simpler today than before, when you marched in formation. They are simply different. For those who enjoy the mathematical side of gaming, I guess Warhammer is more pleasing. Makes you feel in control and such. Make you feel like a general. Truth is that you have too much control of everything in WHFB, compared to what a general in the days of yore really had.
-
I think with cinematic you guys mean ....fast.
40k is the faster game.
done
-
They're both good games. Done.
Can we stop with the stupid comparisons now? Pretty please? Unless someone has something really stupid or outrageous (read: entertaining) to say regarding that.
-
I heard that the 40K elves are pretty cool and all manly.
-
They actually are pretty cool, but from what I've seen they struggle a bit at the moment due to the age of their Codex.
They still can compete however, and most of the models are absolutely awesome. I especially like the vehicles. Falcons, Illum Zar... beautiful kits.
-
The wraithlord is pretty cool too...
And their tanks are very good at surviving!... they can got some energy field thing for 15 pts which forces the enemy to roll two dice and selecting the lowest when rolling on the damage result chart..
-
I always associate Eldar with cheaters. Seeing as our Eldar player was one.
Rar.
-
I love 40k and have slowly stopped playing fantasy because of it.
The main reason for me thinking 40k is better is the difference in the movement. The movement in fantasy is so idiotic and difficult. Whereas 40k movement is nice and easy skirmisher movement. Which makes the game much more fast and dynamic. Which i like.
Difficult, perhaps. Idiotic, how so?
-
Nightgoblin Slingshot
I like fantasy but the movement is odd even for very experienced players.
-
Nightgoblin Slingshot
I like fantasy but the movement is odd even for very experienced players.
except the NG slingshot is illegal.
I am definitely a movement phase fudger though.
-
I tend to exagerate :P but Fandir came with a good example.
I just think its annoying how you have to face a special way in order to overrun into another and so on. Oh and wheeling sucks ...
But thats just my personal oppinion ;)
-
Well the "those guys on our flank spit at us but we canīt charge them thingy" also is kind of strange when you think about it. A "threat" area around a regiment would make more sense....If you are more than the base movement away you can only be charge if you are in los otherwise the enemy can change his formation and charge you.
-
Fandir nailed it.
I hate having to Wheel, turn, reform or whatever to just get that excact angle to overrun into another enemy (which you then debate with your opponent for 15 minutes).
The other problem is that there are too many movement rules in general! Its not just the movement rate, thats easy enough, but the actions i mentioned before. They are all complicated. How many models kan you swap to the front rank with the expand frontage thing?.
We have to look that up all the time.
When we play 40k we sometimes check the book once to find something really odd or specific wording. When playing fantasy we end up checking the book several times just to check on how the "basic" movement actions actually are!
So those saying the movement is more complicated than 40K might have a point.
I realise 40k has its complicated rules as well but in general i think 40k is easier to learn than fantasy...
Another important thing about 40k vs. fantasy is that you NEVER use the terrain in fantasy! You avoid it like the plauge. Half movement and for what? a minus to hit modifier to the enemy? Shooting isnt even that important in fantasy.
In 40k models are litterally tumble over eachother in the terrain so they can get their precious coversave.
It just gives the whole game another feel. Less static and more dynamic. Some guardsmen running through some craters or basilisks making new ones!
Never use terrain in WFB? Nah, I've often used the terrain, and I mean both tactically and moving in it. Sure there are units I don't tend to have move through terrain more than others, and with the type of combat it represents, this seems to make sense.
Shooting isn't important in WFB? Forgive me, but I'm an Empire player, and if I didn't have those cannons, things might be tough. I'd rather not give up the luxuries of crossbows, handguns, and arrows either.
True, in 40K, models move differently, and thus use terrain the way they do, but this seems to make sense with what the rules system is trying to represent as well.
-
As for not being cinematic ... I just played in a couple of WFB Seige games recently and the movie moments were everywhere. I had a unit of spears and detached free company hold off a flying DE manticore with rider for three turns ... imagine the fight they had! Spears stabbing, claws slashing, lance and sword swinging, swords swinging. This went on for 3 turns and at the end of each CC phase there was an increasing anticipation to see if ti would come to a conclusion. And it didn't! Turn six came and went and they still stood there toe to toe.
In another situation, we had a shade skirmish unit try to climb a side tower wall and the archers form above held them off with, get this, arrows! Imagine that. Then we had a bunch of beastmen ambush and climb into the only tower that didn't have a defender in it, because there were too many others pouring into other spots, and then run along a wall to another tower to take out the archers that had caused the shades to run. We had the gate come down, a wall tumble down, men and beasts falling off the wall, a hydra that finally bit the dust on turn five after taking cannon balls and crossbow shots and arrow volleys, and shrugging them off has its body regenerated some of the flesh and blood it was loosing.
Yep, trying to compare the cinematoic moments between 40K and WFB seems fruitless. They happen in both if your imagination is good enough. :eusa_sick: :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
I heard that the 40K elves are pretty cool and all manly.
Since they created me, or a fictional copy of me, I can not but agree.
-
The 40k backstory is much more interesting and its what got me into wargaming in the first place. Both rulesets have their merits, but I do tend to like the people who play fantasy more than those who play 40k (in both forums and RL), which is a huge part of the hobby.
I wouldn't use the word "manly" for the eldar, but they are pretty cool. The dark eldar need help though, both their rules and models are very old.
-
Yes you are right GP. I dont see any reason why this is being discussed either. It is really not possible to decide.
Everyone has their views on things.
-
Yes you are right GP. I dont see any reason why this is being discussed either. It is really not possible to decide.
Everyone has their views on things.
Did I say there wasn't a reason to discuss it? I'm confused.
-
40k related :engel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0
Just saw this linked on Warseer. I enjoyed it.
Hitler on the Tyranid Codex.
-
40k related :engel:
Ah, ok ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I97qAyRq_F0
Just saw this linked on Warseer. I enjoyed it.
Hitler on the Tyranid Codex.
:icon_lol: :icon_lol:
(By the way ... what movie is that from?)
-
I adore the 40k fluff. It is so epicly depressing yet it works!
Phil
-
Yes you are right GP. I dont see any reason why this is being discussed either. It is really not possible to decide.
Everyone has their views on things.
Did I say there wasn't a reason to discuss it? I'm confused.
It was more a reference to Aldaris' post about stopping this, because it leaves us nowhere.
And the movie is Der Untergang / The downfall.
Its one of my favourites :P
And i love that one! :D
-
I suspect it will be difficult to find over here in the States, but I'm going to keep my eyes open for it. Thanks! :::cheers:::
-
http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-Bruno-Ganz/dp/B0009RCPUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1265319762&sr=8-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Downfall-Bruno-Ganz/dp/B0009RCPUC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1265319762&sr=8-1)
There you go :P
-
Oooh! :icon_biggrin: :::cheers:::
-
New battle mission stuff is up on GW's website! :D
PHILLY LOOOK!
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8200015a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-blog&utm_content=new-blog&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Blog-Posts# (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=8200015a&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-blog&utm_content=new-blog&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Blog-Posts#)
-
Hmm... Not impressed with the over-cooked Dred but that may also be the paintjob.
The Kans looks less insane and almost as good as the metal ones.
Thanks for the tip.
-
I will probably buy some Kans for use in pretty much anything I damn well want. Those are awesome to me.
-
Hmm... Not impressed with the over-cooked Dred but that may also be the paintjob.
The Kans looks less insane and almost as good as the metal ones.
Thanks for the tip.
Have you seen the black version?
-
I like them all but im dissapointed that the bassilisk has gotten nothing new but the new chimera parts.. Sigh.. I had hoped for some bits to make the various arties. But nooo.
-
Have you seen the black version?
Just did! Much, much better. :::cheers:::
More Orks on my next GW order.
-
I think I shall put aside some money to buy myself a Killa kan box later. I am in love...
-
More proof that GW's new releases are made worse by crappy paintjobs.
These are fine models that even I could make look better. :icon_neutral:
-
Have you seen the black version?
Just did! Much, much better. :::cheers:::
More Orks on my next GW order.
Good man!
I dont know what i want to buy... I have everything i need... :unsure: And im practically dying to get to spent some money on GW stuff right now.
-
Hmm... Not impressed with the over-cooked Dred but that may also be the paintjob.
The Kans looks less insane and almost as good as the metal ones.
Thanks for the tip.
There's a rumor going around that you might be a GW employee. This kind of post proves they're incorrect, or else you're really good at hiding it. :icon_wink:
By the way, I agree. :::cheers:::
-
I like them all but im dissapointed that the bassilisk has gotten nothing new but the new chimera parts.. Sigh.. I had hoped for some bits to make the various arties. But nooo.
Oh man... this is such a downer. I was sooo hoping they'd include the other arty options. Otherwise, what real reason was there to update those kits, especially the Basilisk? "More straightforward to assemble", fucking joke. Anyone who couldn't build that kit ought to pick up another hobby. And now I still won't get Manticores, because I sure as hell do not fancy shelling out the price of the chimera on top of the cimera to get the Manticore kit from Forgeworld. Damn. Most pointless re-release of the universe. No visual redesign, just some options, and most of those used to be on the tank accessory sprue. And for those, I lose the trackguards in the chimera kits because the (very useful) accessory spure is gone from the box... guess what I have on all of mine? Now I have to buy even those extra! at 8 pounds. :eusa_wall:
I'm gonna prime me some ratmen now. And load up a game where I can shoot somebody while I wait for them to dry. *grumble*
:dry:
-
So far I've heard nothing positive about the new chimera/basilisk release.
-
So far I've heard nothing positive about the new chimera/basilisk release.
I've certainly not heard anything to entice the dollar out my hand.
But that Deff Dred and the killer Kans!
:Ohmy:
-I'll be camping out for those beauties!
-
BTW, did anyone else catch that they're releasing an Ork Flashgit mini?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1430057&prodId=prod650001a
Of course, I dig the targeting squig!
-
I want such a targetting Squig! Where can you buy them? Would serve me well on the live fire exercises.
-
Well, annoyingly I may have to buy an army of killa kanz and deff dreads now.
An army of just walkers and 2 mekboyz.
-
The kanz and dread are pretty good indeed... although I was always very fond of the fact that the older ones were just cans with legs and buzzsaws, which was the epitome of orky. Still these are very good though, and plastic. Love the flash git and his targeting squig.
The ven dread and IG tanks are boring! The dread is much less interesting than the metal ven dread they have now, and the tanks look... well exactly the same as they have.
Does anybody else think that dreads go from looking awesome with the sarcophagus face to looking silly with the helmet put on there?
-
Does anybody else think that dreads go from looking awesome with the sarcophagus face to looking silly with the helmet put on there?
Yes!
-
So far I've heard nothing positive about the new chimera/basilisk release.
I've certainly not heard anything to entice the dollar out my hand.
But that Deff Dred and the killer Kans!
:Ohmy:
-I'll be camping out for those beauties!
Definitely interested in the kans. I got one metal one, so far, and might pick up a couple more along the way.
The kanz and dread are pretty good indeed... although I was always very fond of the fact that the older ones were just cans with legs and buzzsaws, which was the epitome of orky. Still these are very good though, and plastic. Love the flash git and his targeting squig.
The ven dread and IG tanks are boring! The dread is much less interesting than the metal ven dread they have now, and the tanks look... well exactly the same as they have.
Does anybody else think that dreads go from looking awesome with the sarcophagus face to looking silly with the helmet put on there?
Regarding the metal ones, I'm wondering how many different varieties of these can be purchased currently.
(GP ... a first step could be looking at GW's website. :icon_wink: )
Oh, right ...
-
Indeed, the tanks are just... A SCAM!
A pure scam.
They re-release the Chimera costing the same as before. All nice an dandy, you can now get heavy bolter for the main gun (yeah, who ever bothered with switching?) but you loose the assecory spruce.
Come on. That is a scam. They intend for people to react like this: Growy, they updated the kit and kept the price the same. Sweet GW! When in fact they saved some cost on removing the accesory spruce.
The Basilisk seems to be even more of a joke. Nothing new. Nothing. And then away with that lovely accesory spruce and charge people for buying it separately.
The word for that is scam.
-
The Basilisk still seems to have the accessory sprue, as opposed to the Chimera. At least it is pictured when you open the details window on the site. So the basilisk release is basically... erm... an easier to assemble plastic kit to replace the previous plastic kit. Looking exactly the same. At the same price.
They must have been bored or something.
:?
-
At the same price.
Now that is "groundbreaking" :icon_rolleyes:
-
:icon_lol:
I was going to say, "The same price? :icon_eek:"
Midaski beat me to it.
-
Some may say the new Basilisk kit is....earthshaking. :icon_neutral:
-
Well that's crap. I want a Medusa plastic kit!
Grumble grumble grumble
-
I will pick up 3 more plastic kans. I would skip the dredd. As coo las it looks, they aren't worth it in the game. Kans everytime!
Phil
-
I am happy :-) I can spend almost all of my salary at warhammer! As an Au Pair, food and lodgings are taken care of by my host family and I'm free to spend all my monies on nice little plastic toys! :::cheers:::
Shadowwolf
-
So i went to work and got the demolisher / punisher / excecutioner tank for my guard. And i must say that it is one of the nicest kits in the guard!
The tracks where easily put together and didnt have any stupid wheels like last time or on the chimeras. The fact that the weapons are interchangeable is really nice too! You just need some magnets or some and then they can be swapped! No conversion for additional mounts or anything is needed! Its awesome!
If the "new" chimera has the same tracks as the new demolisher then im glad. THe old chimera was really a paint to put together. But without the stupid wheels, theres still hope.
-
What? How can the present Chimera be pain because off the wheels. The GW kits are so basic it is a bit off a joke they cost the same as high quality scale models.
-
For some it's easier and more preferable. Thus those will be happy.
The new Chimera kit is worthwhile in my eyes, having the weapons options for the turret and being "easier to make". I'd still have to mod it so the turret was in the back, which might make it a bit mad, but meh. The basilisk kit is a bit meh, but I'm not fussed. It didn't lose anything, but it gained "being easier" to make.
Edit: I just saw a nice-ish wip conversion of a chimera to make a Half Track. I am pleased by this, considering I just got Tales of Valor and love the Panzer Elite.
-
THERE IS A BIG DADDY STYLE DRILL ON THE KILLA KAN SPRUE
-
What? How can the present Chimera be pain because off the wheels. The GW kits are so basic it is a bit off a joke they cost the same as high quality scale models.
You have to glue like 20 wheels on in between the tracks and have no use of them what so ever. Its stupid.
Oh and i dont care about the cost versus bits you need to put together, that doesnt make it of less quality? it is still detailed. Although there are alot of flat areas on it.
I think im a mini shadowlord. I dont care about the cost, i just buy it :P
Link to the half track Mr D?
I myself found a Vietnam leman russ!
http://www.battlegroup.net/blog/ (http://www.battlegroup.net/blog/)
-
There's this one:
Long Half Track is Long
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/8/19/48707_sm-Chimera%20Half-Track.jpg)
And this incomplete one:
(http://www.dakkadakka.com/s/i/at/2008/4/18/3e06c45c4f755e39dfc3ef61a25a1d2c_6617.jpg__thumb)
-
I like those! Are they yours?
-
Cool conversions! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
-
No, I was doing my daily looking at WW2 German Half Tracks (love them) and thought about modding a chimera to be like one, and so googled 40k chimera half track.
-
That last one isnt that good :P.-... Not that i could do it any better though :p
Check this one out
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Cpt_Canuck/Imperial%20Guard/Jays%20HalfTrack/JagdPantherProgressx.jpg)
-
This is why I love Guard.
-
I love that big bad assault gunlooking Basilisk!
Still, I would rather go and buy a proper Jagdpanther kit and beef up the gun with some tube instead of doing all that fiddle just to only use GW parts that will get way more expensive.
-
Then do that. :roll:
That half track is a beauty. Playing too much Red Orchestra and Company of Heroes lately, go Kampfgruppe Lehr!
-
The Panzer Lehr kicked some serious butt in Normandy.
Regardless of my usual preferences, that first Chimera halftrack conversion gave me some ideas for converting my old Chimera into a proper ork battlewagon.
-
Do people still play Red Orchestra, Mr D? Last time i checked there was only 10 or so severs.
Maybe we should hook up sometime.
Oh and whats your user in COH?
And you you do that Mathi ':p .. But its a valid point. But I think he did it for the conversion. It just isnt the same when buying a ww2 thing and using it, instead of creating the conversion yourself.
-
It's a shame that Half Track kits cost almost as much as a chimera. I need four of them for the WW2 game I'm writing!
McKnight, my steam ID is MrWhitey (I appear as MrWhitey [O.C. Reg]. I only got Red Orchestra recently, though I used to play it when it was "just" a mod. I've found it to still be played quite a bit, I frequent a pair of EU servers which during the afternoon/night time are often full with 50 players each. I have found the game to be lacking in vehicles though. :-( That and unless you're first on the server, literally, you wont get a chance to drive a panzer. Not that I want to -too much- considering I've driven the Half Track and good lord... The visibility...
Firing the mounted MG is just as hard as driving.
And I can't remember my CoH one, either SSWaffenWaffle or a variation on MrWhitey.
So far my experience with the Panzer Elite is 2 skirmish games and a 2v2 against computers with a friend playing the standard Wehrmacht. My cries of "I'm going tank destroyer, I can't build defences!" often fell on deaf ears. :-(
-
Damn! This tread almost deserve a song.
-
Yes I know songs do you hear them?
Nice German Panzers.
-
Behave, you unholy affront to Morr or I shalt cleanse thee with holy fire! ::heretic::
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xYzQ-SRs4g
-
Added you^^
Do you play CoH via steam as well?.
I saw some tank servers on RO some time ago but yea you had to be lucky, but its really a cool game. Its just so much more fun if your team is your friendsor clan, so you can actually put down a battleplan.
Panzer elite are cool but i still prefer werhmacht, but thats just because i havent mastered them yet.
-
Check this one out
I like that. Not keen on the thing next to it with a large fixed gun though.
-
How can you NOT like it? Its a Jagdpanther conversion! :icon_eek:
-
It looks like a stupid design to me. Which probably means it's based on a real one, or something. I don't know anything about tanks.
-
Rufus donīt like tank destroyers, maybe? :engel:
I bet he prefers everything styled as british Churchill tanks or similar. Nothing wrong with that, I love Churchills, but when Rufus do not like it, he is ready to spill his gall about it and accuse others for having poor taste. :icon_razz:
So real designs are stupid? I canīt see how they are stupid when obviously non-working GW designs seems to be working designs in your eyes Rufus. You may be trying to joke, but I think it is easier still to assume that you say exactly what you mean all the time. :closed-eyes:
-
Oh, give it a rest. Stop projecting weird opinions onto everyone.
None of your post makes any sense or has anything to do with what I said!
-
None of your post makes any sense or has anything to do with what I said!
On the contrary, your posts are quite similar in content.
Only he takes two pages to say what you do in one sentence...
-
None of your post makes any sense or has anything to do with what I said!
On the contrary, your posts are quite similar in content.
Only he takes two pages to say what you do in one sentence...
Hahhaha :D I love you, Slord :P
Now Rufus, instead of doing like mathi and rambling nonsense, im going to enlighten you a little.
The jagdpanther was a large tank hunter which used ambush tactics. It had a 25 degrees line of fire without moving the tracks so could still move the gun alittle. It had a large gun so could also should further than, say shermans.
Also a tank turret was time consuming and expensive to produce. So they where cheaper to manufacture.
-
I like that British tank destroyer where they'd put the gun facing backwards so they could hide in a bush and drive straight off in the opposite direction of the enemy after the first shot.
-
I like that British tank destroyer where they'd put the gun facing backwards so they could hide in a bush and drive straight off in the opposite direction of the enemy after the first shot.
:eusa_clap:
Awesome! What was it called? The Runforit Mk I?
-
Now Rufus, instead of doing like mathi and rambling nonsense, im going to enlighten you a little.
Fair enough, but I still don't like the way it looks. Which is all I was saying anyway. As I may or may not have said, I'm not interested in tanks.
-
Rufus seems to be unable to detect when I try my hand on his own style of subtle ironic jokes. :icon_razz:
Have a pint, Rufus! :::cheers:::
However, the way you put it was open to interpretations. Namely that you did not like tanks and that real armoured vehicles did not make any sense, hence the model was bad. Not that you just donīt like the look of it, aestethically. Aestethics have nothing to do with wether a design is stupid or not.
Fact is that it was a very good design for defensive and ambush warfare and served the germans well. How about concluding that you feel it looks ugly, since that is an aestethic value. Looking like a stupid design is something you canīt really say anything about unless you know something about tanks.
So, you could have saved yourself an entire post! :icon_mrgreen:
Or simply said that it did not appeal to your aestethics, but that you did not know anything about the function of armoured vehicles.
With that reply I would not have done more than nudge you a bit in jest. :icon_wink:
Now, your reply appeared high and mighty, as if coming form Armchair general Rufus of Wellington. Not your intention, but that was how it looked. I more or less understood what you meant, but could not help but playing your own style against yourself for a change. :::cheers:::
-
Or in other words, someone not agreeing with you is a good excuse for a lecture.
Tanks don't exist anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
-
Or simply said that it did not appeal to your aestethics, but that you did not know anything about the function of armoured vehicles.
except that is exactly what he did say.
It looks like a stupid design to me. Which probably means it's based on a real one, or something. I don't know anything about tanks.
HE even pointed out it was probably a real design.
-
Still, could be my foreign understanding, but the way the text was laided out made it look like it was about how stupid real world tanks are.
But it can boil down to something as simple as me and McKnights nordic understanding of our native grammar making us sometimes misinterpretate subtle differences in meaning in the english sentences and sometimes we write something that for you looks odd and meaning something different than what we intended.
Ah, the miracle of lingua franca.
I think that somehow I hear Rufus speaking with a sarcastic voice when he writes things, making me read in tones and meanings that sometimes are there, sometimes not. :unsure:
Sorry mates! Truly sorry. I love you anyway, Rufus. :icon_redface:
-
Oh, that's nice! Thanks.
I do forget sometimes that english is not everyone's native language. Because you are all so good at it.
-
As was said earlier, Tank Destroyers were made in great numbers due to being cheaper to produce, and (sometimes) having a much lower profile.
The StuG is my favourite tank destroyer, the Jagdpanther was ok, but I dislike it's high profile, much prefer the "diminutive" Hetzer (but I still think the StuG > all)
I think the silliest german tank destroyer was the aptly named Elefant, and the Jagdtiger annoys me by looking too much like a King Tiger.
I'm assuming you're the hamster, McKnight?
-
Ah yes the stug! Its awesome! But not really a tank destroyer per se, but an assault gun. Its gun wasnt only designed for antitank purposes, but only anti inf.
Its also one of my favourites.
To tell the truth, i can never remember the visual differences of the jagdpanther, jagdpanzer and jagdtiger xD...
Yes im the hamster :P
-
Have any of you had any experiences with the leman russ punisher?
-
Jadgpanzers look like smaller Jagdpanthers, simplistically. The JPanther was just much bigger. Of course there are other differences, but this is very general.
The Elefant looked like a super Hummel. The body of a Tiger tank with a huge superstructure at the back.
The Jagdtiger looked like a King Tiger with the turret expanded outwards to be flush with the body. Hell, just go on google and look. :engel:
-
Have any of you had any experiences with the leman russ punisher?
Yes, my brother has one.
They're awesome.
Even heavily armoured foes end up having to be wary of so many potential armour saves.
-
I used it only once in a Plaentary Invasions game against CSM/Demons. The Demons didn't like it much.
-
Yea i just googled them Mr D :P,,,, :icon_mrgreen:
So what do you equip them with?
I was thinking heavy bolter sponsons and a heavy stubber just for maximum firepower but thats 210pts. For 30 pts more you can have the executioner and 5 plasma blasts and no armour save.
I also think the 24" range wont allow the punisher to stand much still and be able to fire its sponsons so im thinking of saving them off and keep mobility. But i have to try them some time.
I just dont like that they are so expensive. But Rear av 11 is nice! Although the executioner also has this :unsure:
I was thinking of trying them in a list like this: (all chimeras have hull flamers
Company comm. 3 plasmas, 1 medic and chimera
veteran squad, 3 plasmas, chimera
veteran squad, 3 flamers, chimera
veteran squad, 3 meltas - in vendetta
2x1 vendetta
2x1 medusa with bastion shells
2 LR punishers.
And have the punishers lead the assault followed by the chimeras. While the medusas and vendettas provide firesupport against tanks and monsters.
One of the vendettas with have a veteran squad as reserve guys. Dno which squad it should be.
-
Executioners are better.
-
I like that British tank destroyer where they'd put the gun facing backwards so they could hide in a bush and drive straight off in the opposite direction of the enemy after the first shot.
:eusa_clap:
Awesome! What was it called? The Runforit Mk I?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_%28tank_destroyer%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_%28tank_destroyer%29)
Archer.
-
Well, the swedish S-tank could drive as fast backwards as forward. It was really an assault gun/tank destroyer but it made sense if you expected to fight delay and ambush action against superior russian armour in north Sweden.
-
Executioners are better.
Depends. Different roles you know.
Also, Mcknight, my CoH friend ID is t12161991.
-
What are the different roles ?
The only big advantage the punisher has, as i can see it, is the punisher cant accidently hit your own guys.
I got some issues with steam atm, but ill add you when i can, Tmillion
-
What are the different roles ?
The only big advantage the punisher has, as i can see it, is the punisher cant accidently hit your own guys.
Spacing is a big issue, as well as cost. If your target is properly spaced out, you will only hit two or three minis max per plasma cannon shot, sometimes even just one (especially when considering terminator bases). And that is assuming you don't scatter off-target entirely. Remember, BS 3. If you mount a lascannon on that moster it comes to 245 points, 230 without (I am assuming you'll go for plasma cannon sponsons if you take it in the first place). They almost always wound on a 2+ and igore armor, but there is cover to consider, as well as ward saves. Now, contrast with the punisher. Doesn't ignore armor, but can put out 29 S5 shots per round. That's about 15 hits on average, and 10 wounds on T4 targets. It simply is an efficient way to make the enemy roll so many saves he's bound to fail a few. And it is cheaper. Add Knight Commander Pask to bring it on par cost-wise with the well equipped Executioner and you look at about 20 hits and 14 wounds. Not too shabby in my book.
Both have their applications, but the Punisher is the better all-rounder in my opinion. Effective against hordes and mostrous creatures especially and decent against all others. With pask on board you even have a chance to take out light vehicles (up to AV 11) fairly well (you'll get about three penetrating hits per turn), and even AV 12 could look at some serious damage due to around three glacing hits on average per turn.
-
Yea spacing also came to my mind.
But i doubt the punisher will get to fire its sponsons because of its short 24" range. But pask also entered my mind but i dont think hes worth the points in a punisher.
I also thought of him in a executioner actually. It will get AT capability and reroll to wound on monsters, with ap2 that is a nice thing. But also nice with the punisher, but in my mind they are supposed to be cheap!
Ill try them out sometime though, i have to. The model is so awesome, both the executioner and punisher cannon. The demolisher isnt :p
-
The Punisher isn't supposed to be cheap. A standard Russ is supposed to be cheap.
As to the monstrous creature hunting: Most mosters have 4-5 wounds, which is the absolute maximum you can achieve with the Executioner against a single model. So a low chance to take it out, you'd have to hit with every shot. Besides, a Pask Executioner will cost an insane 280 points (295 with the lascannon), way too much. A Pask Punisher with re-roll to wound on the other hand has a pretty good chance of dropping it.
A good, cheapish Pask variant is the often overlooked Exterminator. An Exterminator with HB Sponsons and a hull lascannon makes an excellent tank hunter for up to AV 13 and an average one for 14. Those Autocannons are heavy 4 twin-linked at BS 4, and they benefit from his +1 armor penetration. Effectively turning them into 4 twin-linked SM missile launchers for anti-armor purposes. Add the lascannon (and the 6 HB shots from the sponsons against light vehicles) and you have the true tank hunter Russ variant in the list. It isn't the Vanquisher.
:icon_cool:
-
Agh! You've reminded me how much I miss the Exterminator when I could field it with the Space Wolves. I got it specifically for bug hunting, and it did pretty good the times I got to use it. Heck, it pretty much did good in general. I preferred it over my army's Predators. The Exterminator was a monster tank in 4th edition!
Maybe one day it will find a home with my IG army (if I ever get around to it), but I'll hate to have to repaint it and cut the wolf heads off of the sponsons. Or maybe I'll just leave it as is?
-
Im not fond of the exterminator. Autocannons isnt a thing that the IG is short of. Then i would rather have a standard battlecannon with its ap3 and s8 ordonance large blast.
And for the price of an exterminator you can get 2 flak tanks and they have almost double the range!
but i follow you on the executioner not being able to do alot of wounds with the blasts on Monsters, although it is a good start.
-
Im not fond of the exterminator. Autocannons isnt a thing that the IG is short of. Then i would rather have a standard battlecannon with its ap3 and s8 ordonance large blast.
I am talking about a Paskinator, not a regular Exterminator. Pask is the whole point of the variant I talked about. With him, those Autocannons cease to be mere Autocannons and move up to the realm of missile launchers.
And for the price of an exterminator you can get 2 flak tanks and they have almost double the range!
And they are pointless in the role I talked about. The best those can go after is light vehicles, not battle tanks.
Without Pask the Exterminator is certainly not a bad tank either. 4 Twinlinked ACs and nine HB shots for 170 points, all wrapped into an AV 14 package. That said, I prefer the regular Russ as well over the regular Exterminator. But the regular Russ doesn't benefit very much from a Pask upgrade. The Exterminator does, hugely.
-
All this talk of IG makes me somewhat interested in them again...
But first lots Orks.
And maybe WotR. :icon_neutral:
-
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing. Is that a Swedish genetic trait?
:wink:
That said, I am still dumbfounded you actually sold your awesome IG army. You, you... heretic!
-
Im not fond of the exterminator. Autocannons isnt a thing that the IG is short of. Then i would rather have a standard battlecannon with its ap3 and s8 ordonance large blast.
I am talking about a Paskinator, not a regular Exterminator. Pask is the whole point of the variant I talked about. With him, those Autocannons cease to be mere Autocannons and move up to the realm of missile launchers.
And for the price of an exterminator you can get 2 flak tanks and they have almost double the range!
And they are pointless in the role I talked about. The best those can go after is light vehicles, not battle tanks.
Without Pask the Exterminator is certainly not a bad tank either. 4 Twinlinked ACs and nine HB shots for 170 points, all wrapped into an AV 14 package. That said, I prefer the regular Russ as well over the regular Exterminator. But the regular Russ doesn't benefit very much from a Pask upgrade. The Exterminator does, hugely.
Haha the Paskinator :P I know that s8 autocannons are cool but i really dont see s8 as a battletank killer. I mostly go up against landraiders, predators, leman russes or rhinos its its mostly AV 14 or 11. I usually let the autocannons shoot the rhinos and the vendettas can play with the big stuff :P
Well the battlecannon russ would actually benifit well from Herr Pask. It would become S9 ordinance, thats some good AT, but granted, there are better things.
But i see your point about the paskinator. Its just i dont like the model :P
Yes that was stupid Shadowlord.. very stupid... but on the bright side, if you start IG again, your stocks will go up as well... Win Win
whats Wotr? Lord of the rings?
-
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing.
Yeah but he doesn't make a new thread daily about it. :engel:
And WotR is War of the Rings, and I'm vaguely intrigued at Shadowlord thinking of getting into it!
-
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing. Is that a Swedish genetic trait?
Probably, but I usually end up buying the stuff and then get rid of it a few weeks later, still in the boxes. :icon_rolleyes:
That said, I am still dumbfounded you actually sold your awesome IG army. You, you... heretic!
Sometimes, I manage to get stuff painted (the IG army had some commission stuff from a local young and used-to-be poor talent) before I get rid of it. :icon_lol:
And WotR is War of the Rings, and I'm vaguely intrigued at Shadowlord thinking of getting into it!
I have heard some good stuff about it, and unlike WFB and 40K, have several armies I like all the models (there are less units in WotR).
Playing is just one quarter of this hobby for me (collecting/buying, painting/converting, and fluff/background being the other three)
-
The only problem I've found with WotR is getting people to play it, I hope you have enough around to get some games!
It's a nice ruleset, it has flaws, like -any- game but they can easily be resolved with a chat.
Which forces were you thinking of? Gondor is the one I went with, and they can get very boring to paint, the basic army being a load of tin cans. :-D But it is nice having so many figures on the table, and being able to move them so fluidly.
-
Probably, but I usually end up buying the stuff and then get rid of it a few weeks later, still in the boxes. :icon_rolleyes:
Ah. So it's more a variant of the stereotypical female shoe fetish. Only that you get rid of the stuff again.
-
Shadowlord, you are sometimes more fickle than Mathi with your "favourite army of the week" thing. Is that a Swedish genetic trait?
:wink:
We just had this conversation on the beast board. We think it is a swedish thing, with the difference being Shadowlord actually DOES pul lthe trigger and buy whole armies on a whim!
That said, I am still dumbfounded you actually sold your awesome IG army. You, you... heretic!
He has orks, which are hands down the best army in all of Warhammer, Fantasy or 40k. You can't beat the models or the fluff.
Phil
-
Orks are cool in any possible way, no question about it. But the great thing about 40k fluff is that I can not really think of any part about it that I dislike. It's all awesome (I am not talking about individual fluff pieces, but about the overall concept). And of course IG are the best.
That said, I'd be sorely tempted to get myself an Ork army for 40k or Fantasy, but two friends have both of those bases covered. And I don't really want to start another horde army...
-
He has orks, which are hands down the best army in all of Warhammer, Fantasy or 40k. You can't beat the models or the fluff.
Agreed 100%, and the is another aspect why I love them as I do with Ogres in fantasy, the conversion possibilities. :icon_cool:
The only problem I've found with WotR is getting people to play it, I hope you have enough around to get some games!
I am currently courting two of the players, yeah with flowers, to start with this game. I am not worried about players, if I start, a few other will follow.
Which forces were you thinking of?
Mordor or Dwarfs, and maybe Tin Men.
@ Aldaris, yes I have fetish with plastic little men, but luckily my wife have been influencing me more and more (I did slip with that HE army some time ago) to keep it cool.
-
Regardless of my usual preferences, that first Chimera halftrack conversion gave me some ideas for converting my old Chimera into a proper ork battlewagon.
Not that I'm opposed to converting Chimeras, but arent' they suppose to be amphibious? Those tires don't seem like a good idea for an amphibious vechile.
However, I do like the idea of converting one as into a looted wagon. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
@ Aldaris, yes I have fetish with plastic little men
Don't we all...?
-
I thought the Lord of the rings branch of GW was dead though :dry:
-
I thought the Lord of the rings branch of GW was dead though :dry:
So do I, which to be honest is why I have yet to buy any real army.
And it's not like I have nothing to paint (say some 150 Orks and a bunch of big stuff, Ogres, and FW stuff).
-
What FW stuff? :P
But yea same here!
-
So as i showed up for work today at the store, i noticed the new killa kans and venerable dreadnought stood on the desk in the office.
I immediately swooped over to them to check them out and looked at them.
I must say that the ven. dread is nicely detailed as you can expect and think its overall nice! Although I dont like that sacopharus thingy.
The killa kans are a little meh though. They are cool and all but their legs are all too plain and flat. They dont have chunks of metal there. But some cool weapons and bodies, thats for sure!
-
Oh and there are 3 kinds of the sacufarus thingies. One of them looks like the old dreadnought's i think.
-
Just so you're not talking to yourself McKnight, me and a friend need a third for some Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor 3v3 :engel:
We're both incredibly bad at it. :icon_lol:
-
Saw a killa kan this past weekend. This one had a smiling face on it ... bah. Lets hope they can be modeled with out faces. :icon_rolleyes:
-
I AM going to get me some killa kanz, one way or the other. Both metal ones and the new plastic will do!
I will drop a looted wagon just to be able to have a bunch of these nuttsies. Heck, I will even model some red berets onto them!
-
Even I was tempted by the killa kans and I don't like 40k.
-
I AM going to get me some killa kanz, one way or the other. Both metal ones and the new plastic will do!
I will drop a looted wagon just to be able to have a bunch of these nuttsies. Heck, I will even model some red berets onto them!
Killa Kans do really well on the battle field too. They are far superior to dredds. The unit can take alot of punishment for a crazy low price. 155 for a unit of 3 is awesome. Get them into combat and even with WS2 those 2 S10 attacks will wear a unit out!
Phil
-
Evil robot dustbins are a good concept. They should have them in warhammer too.
-
You really invest in that sarc. mark.
-
What?
I meant exactly what I said, as it happens.
-
See !
This is excactly what happens when you dont use the sarc. mark! You get confusion. Maybe they should invent a non-sarc. mark to earn even more money :P
But how would those dustbins be powered in fantasy?
-
Ehh?
Is that a question worthy of a man of the Empire, McKnight! :icon_eek:
We can either make them steam pistondriven or we make them clockwork driven.
How hard can it be? :engel:
Honestly, that clockwork horse annoys me, but bring me a clockwork dustbin and you will soon see another incarnation of Mathi Alfbluts personas commanding his own pistondriven walker. :icon_mrgreen:
-
Evil robot dustbins are a good concept. They should have them in warhammer too.
I want this for my Empire army:
(http://shop.ramshacklegames.co.uk/images/tank_hatch.jpg)
-
Nice!
-
Evil robot dustbins are a good concept. They should have them in warhammer too.
I did make one. Unfortunately there was an incident and it's in a box broken somewhere.
-
Oh, that's a shame. I thought it looked rather promising.
-
No grots in WFB. :icon_lol:
-
Snotlings. Just as good.
-
By the way ... that model up above looks awesome! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
I like the steam spider.
I'd say warhammer needs more steam robots, but then I remember that warmachine game that is nothing but steam robots, and how that isn't as cool as it sounds.
-
I'd say warhammer needs more steam robots, but then I remember that warmachine game that is nothing but steam robots, and how that isn't as cool as it sounds.
You're correct about that sir!
We should all be thankfull that McVey's taint didn't leak it's way over into WHFB before he left GW. I'd hate to imagine the WHFB counterparts for Lemartes or the Jingle-bell striking scorpions...
-
I like the steam spider.
I'd say warhammer needs more steam robots, but then I remember that warmachine game that is nothing but steam robots, and how that isn't as cool as it sounds.
Just think of the giant steam-powered spiderbot from Wild, Wild West. You'll have the most bizarre steam tank ever.
-The General
-
Ok, so i tried the punisher with heavy bolters today against daemons. And by God it is awesome. It destroyed two 15 bloodletter units. Or the majority of them.
It simply just mowed them down. It definitely gets more hits than pie plates. I had two medusas in the list as well, and they were awesome too! Didnt do as many wounds as the punisher, but it really helped thining out a 20 plaguebearer unit.
I also tried the bastion breacher shells against a leman russ heavy and mech inf list.
They are superb anti tank! They cut through anything! And if lucky then you hit fairly well. The only downside is their opentop-ness and their inability to fire indirect so they have to engage in firefights with their targets.
-
Ok, so i tried the punisher with heavy bolters today against daemons. And by God it is awesome. It destroyed two 15 bloodletter units. Or the majority of them.
It simply just mowed them down.
Told you so!
:::cheers:::
-
Next thing i have to try is an infantry list backed by arty and planes. No russes.
And maybe some apocalypse in the Easter break! :O
-
Next thing i have to try is an infantry list backed by arty and planes. No russes.
And maybe some apocalypse in the Easter break! :O
Flank march. Use lots and lots of flank marching.
-The General
-
Or large units 30 strong with commisar with power weapon and sarge with power weapon. They are actually not bad especially if you have straken around.
-
Yes i usually use 20-30 guys with said commissar and sergeants.
Straken, i havent tried him, but want to!
-
You can try to get some training modules from Union Generals on the proper use of the
"Baaaaaaayonet chaaaaaarge!" scream.
-
Well i already speak "Fix bayonets" fluently and "Take cover" as well! Although it is in the version of "GET DOOOWN!" :P
-
You see I am more of a
1 rank fire
2 rank fire
3 rank fire
Person all said in a soft voice while drinking my dry martini posing with the sabre on my shoulder.
-
You see I am more of a
1 rank fire
2 rank fire
3 rank fire
Person all said in a soft voice while drinking my dry martini posing with the sabre on my shoulder.
start up the maxim gun wot!
-
You can try to get some training modules from Union Generals on the proper use of the
"Baaaaaaayonet chaaaaaarge!" scream.
The proper scream was executed perfectly by Colonel Joshua Chamberlain at Little Round Top, on July 2nd, 1863, the 2nd day of the Battle of Gettysburg.
BAYONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETSSSSS!
Perfectly applicable to the Imperial Guard as well. :biggriin:
-The General
-
sorry I need to chime in here.
Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?
See personally I would say:
Bayonets! Fark Yeah!
Gonna chop you up,
Into little bits of sushi!
-
sorry I need to chime in here.
Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?
See personally I would say:
Bayonets! Fark Yeah!
Gonna chop you up,
Into little bits of sushi!
The proper yell is "Fix bayonets!" This is usually highly bravado-charged.
-The General
-
Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?
We'll probably never really know for sure.
-
Was it REALLY one of the proper bayonet screams do you Civil War buffs just like to think it was?
We'll probably never really know for sure.
I had a british guy going off at CW buffs a couple nights back you know the whole "it's a minor bloody affair compared to the ECW tooting their own horn" I found it amusing.
That film Gods and Generals about Stonewall Jackson was awesome. But too far off topic.
-
Yep, 40K and the American Civil War hardly mix.
Here's the thread set up for the American Civil War ...
www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=30924.msg445002 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=30924.msg445002)
-
A mate of mine is doing a 'Nam style guard army using catachans and GS some helmets on them. I was wondering what the best army to do as Viet Cong would be. Also guard just different style? A mate mentioned Tau.
-
I think guards in a different style is the best. Tau are really too techy and the Viet Cong did not suck at close quarters. Infact, they sought to engage the americans at short ranges, to make it difficult for the yanks to use their best tools of superiority, artillery and airstrikes.
There is however the option to use Orkz, and take lots of Kommandoz. :icon_mrgreen:
-
you know that could work. Orkz and do in the same jungle base/style as the guard army
O snap mathi...
-
A mate of mine is doing a 'Nam style guard army using catachans and GS some helmets on them. I was wondering what the best army to do as Viet Cong would be. Also guard just different style? A mate mentioned Tau.
Kroot. Because they eat up their enemies and assimilate their DNA and...
...oh, wait. Perhaps not Kroot, then.
-
Go orkz Nicholas and have one Kommandoz squad include Boss Snikrot for good measure! :icon_mrgreen:
-
Orks.
Goffs, Blood Axes, Death Skulls, and Snakebites might all work.
-
I suggest a combined Snake bites/Blood axe tribe. You ainīt gonna get more VC & NVA than that! :icon_razz:
-
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
-
I got the Battle missions book today!
And i have only looked at the guard, chaos marines and tyranid missions and just skimmed the rest.
But so far alot of them are based on objectives. And all have 1 or 2 special rules or missions for each mission. Deployment is often typical or close to what we know although there are alot of different deployement ways now.
And typically 18" apart from each other.
Tyranids have some missions that are in their favour though. In my mind at least.
The book is great if you want more diversity from the old 3 missions.
-
Great stuff, McKnight!
I am going to get that book and me and my son have talked about it and what has been said about it. Weīre especially exited about the possibility for trench warfare! :icon_razz:
-
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.
Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines. Much better way to go. :icon_cool:
-
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.
Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines. Much better way to go. :icon_cool:
oh, i've replaced this temptation with a new one.
i just looked over the warriors of chaos army book, and i'm genuinely ready to trade basically all of my vc for them. seriously.
-
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.
Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines. Much better way to go. :icon_cool:
oh, i've replaced this temptation with a new one.
i just looked over the warriors of chaos army book, and i'm genuinely ready to trade basically all of my vc for them. seriously.
I take it you suffer just as much from sudden moodswings concerning Warhammer armies as I do. :wink:
-
why do i have the sudden urge to trade all my BfSP dwarves for AoBR marines...
Don't do it yet, you might regret it.
Instead, buy a full AoBR and trade the Orks to someone else for their space marines. Much better way to go. :icon_cool:
oh, i've replaced this temptation with a new one.
i just looked over the warriors of chaos army book, and i'm genuinely ready to trade basically all of my vc for them. seriously.
I take it you suffer just as much from sudden moodswings concerning Warhammer armies as I do. :wink:
part of it, yes. the other part is that i kind of stumbled upon my vc army rather than picking it because it suited me.
-
I'd take WoC over VC, too. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Yet becareful trading whole armies away, or you might regret it someday. :icon_wink:
By the way, do you have pictures of your V.C. army somewhere?
And how did you "stumble" on to it?
-
I'd take WoC over VC, too. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Yet becareful trading whole armies away, or you might regret it someday. :icon_wink:
By the way, do you have pictures of your V.C. army somewhere?
And how did you "stumble" on to it?
i played vc years ago, and managed to dig the army back up when wiss used his mind control powers to get me to play warhammer again. so i had most of an army already, and it made no sense to start a new one.
i don't have any pictures. i've only just started painting. i have like 3 or 4 guys done and about 8 more nearly done.
vc's great. it's super diverse. but its magic is broken and i kind of want to play a more elite low model count army. i don't know if i'd be able to trade everything anyway, i'd probably more have to sell it all on ebay at a significant loss.
-
play darkelves...they're elite.
Warriors are just overcosted so much to make them nigh on useless. Literally drop 2-3 points off everything and add 1-2 points on marauders and you'd have a decent list. As it stands now Warriors at 16pts is a 2-3pt per model handicap to your opponent.
-
WoC seems like a lower total number of figures type of army, the models are cool, and its certainly fluffy against Empire. Not that V.C. isn't fluffy. Only started painting, how do you like it?
-
fantasy in the 40k thread?
-
:icon_lol: Yep, imagine that on a WFB thread. :icon_wink:
He wanted to trade his VC for AoBR space marines.
Not like it hasn't happened the other way around, too. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
-
well i was indignant about the whole 40-ACW thing (I think it would be cool to do CSM and SM in Civil War Colours... or do guard that way...)
then i reminded myself this was a fantasy forum...
-
Yep, and I was agreeing wiht you at that point, too. :icon_lol:
Those would be good color schemes for all your suggestions. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
just to establish closure, i drank the koolaid and bought my first box of chaos warriors tonight.
...what can i say...
anybody need some grave guard?
-
:icon_lol:
Uh oh. We're all doomed! :icon_eek:
-
How many Grave guards do you have? and are they the newest edition? :P
-
Hey! I have a first shot at everything VC FictionalCharacter has!
:icon_wink:
-
Hmm I have the smallest army, therefore im entitled to get first dips:P
Not that i have the money or anything xD
But all this talk about VC made me want to paint my skellies.. and they are 200km away xD
-
Smallest WFB army or 40K army :icon_question:
And by the way ... FC has a thread going regarding his VC over in the trading area. :icon_wink:
-
Smallest VC army :P
I also have Empire, Ogres and Skaven... and Imperial guard and Daemon hunters... its terrible, i know.
Oh cool, gonna check it out! Oh well, guess not. The mods were in a bad mood.
-
Looks like I have had it with fantasy until a new Ogre book is out, because of the reliable rumours are true, the Ogres won't stand much of chance. The current book at least makes them playable but with 8th? We shall see.
Beastmen don't cut it, their way of play is very one-dimensional and they lack warmachines of any kind (Cygors don't count).
Instead I am looking at complementing my Orks with something else.
Red Templar Space Marines and a chance for me to paint battle worn tin men. :icon_cool:
-
You sound like me Slord. 40k is the way to go.
Maybe you should wait for the new blood angels? They sound really nasty! But its another Close combat army for you.
-
I have been a Space Wolf fan for a long time, but somehow never gotten around to make an army.
However, the talks about the new Blood Angels makes them feel very interesting too me. I would get an excuse to paint lots of red, one of my favourite colours, and it would break away from the colour style of my Orkz and my Imperial guards.
Heck, it would even break away from my Empire Stirlanders and my Wood elf army, who is winterthemed with lot of whites and greys with some brown here and there for leather.
But at the same time, my son wants me to start Chaos marines, but I find the list dull. Also, he wants to face Iron warriors which would match his Imperial Fists for the grudge, but I donīt like the Iron warrior feel... I really would like to do something in bright gaudy colours for once.
-
Looks like I have had it with fantasy until a new Ogre book is out, because of the reliable rumours are true, the Ogres won't stand much of chance. The current book at least makes them playable but with 8th? We shall see.
Beastmen don't cut it, their way of play is very one-dimensional and they lack warmachines of any kind (Cygors don't count).
Instead I am looking at complementing my Orks with something else.
Red Templar Space Marines and a chance for me to paint battle worn tin men. :icon_cool:
Will you bring pictures here to share what your up to painting them, or is their another location where you'll be posting such?
-
Maybe, I am not sure.
I did post someting over at warhammer.uk.org but I only visit the Glass Cabinet there, the rest if very sucky for the most part. And I only check the rumour sections on Warseer. My forum time is less than it has been. :icon_confused:
And my Empire days are over for good (I tried to start again but there was no passion left).
Maybe you should wait for the new blood angels? They sound really nasty! But its another Close combat army for you.
Exactly! :icon_cool:
-
Well, it would be a shame if you dissappear from here completley, cause you have been a great inspiration for me. And maybe you passed over part of your Empire passion to me, cause it just keeps on going! :::cheers:::
Anyway, may the Ladz nevar fall out of your passion. Not that I believe it is possible to loose the green passion once the bug caught you. :icon_razz:
-
And my Empire days are over for good (I tried to start again but there was no passion left).
Hope I don't experience that cause for Empire is much fun, at least currently.
How long did you do Empire?
-
Maybe, I am not sure.
I did post someting over at warhammer.uk.org but I only visit the Glass Cabinet there, the rest if very sucky for the most part. And I only check the rumour sections on Warseer. My forum time is less than it has been. :icon_confused:
And my Empire days are over for good (I tried to start again but there was no passion left).
Maybe you should wait for the new blood angels? They sound really nasty! But its another Close combat army for you.
Exactly! :icon_cool:
I thought you ment those guys but had to be sure:P
My fantasy days are also scarce, but i still hang around here :)
-
How long did you do Empire?
4 minutes at a time... :icon_rolleyes:
I think 5 years - and they were stopping me mentally from collecting any armies. Since they were sold, I have been able to paint a whole Ogre army, or at least a chunk (3000+ pts) of it, start with Orks, and are planning to start with SM.
-
How long did you do Empire?
4 minutes at a time... :icon_rolleyes:
:icon_lol:
I think 5 years - and they were stopping me mentally from collecting any armies. Since they were sold, I have been able to paint a whole Ogre army, or at least a chunk (3000+ pts) of it, start with Orks, and are planning to start with SM.
Interesting that doing one army was a block against doing others.
For WFB I am primarily working on Empire, and for 40K I'm primarily working on Orks. I move back and forth between the two, depending on my mood. The T&G campaign has motivated me back in the direction of Empire, and off my recent focus on Orks. At the same time, I've started picking up a few number of Germans for FoW, Napoleonic figures for Lasalle, and occasionally picking up things for other WFB armies like O&G, WoC, and Brets which I can see myself slowly growing over time, along with SM for 40K. I tend to work on multiple projects over the long run.
-
You are a bot.
You played much FoW yet?
-
Nope. Trying to learn 40K (and learn WFB better).
When you say bot, does this mean robot?
-
FOW is the awesomest table game i have tried. Its difficult but pure awesome.
Mostly because of the beautiful models and my addiction to WW2! Its a shame i traded my 2nd ss panzer for an IG army, helluva trade but i still miss my panzers :icon_cry:
Although we only played like 3 games or something.
-
Would love to play FoW except it is WWII and I am no fan.
However after installing Company of Heroes, that may change...
Some 40K:
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/BA-Sanguinary-guard-preview.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/BA-preview-02.jpg)
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/spikyjames/BA-preview-03.jpg)
-
How dare you bring 40k into this!
Also, Company of Heroes rocks, we need a third for multiplayer, as McKnight is unreliable. :engel:
I like the Sanguinary Guard a lot.
-
Holy crap!
I just wet my pants! :Ohmy:
Well, i know what my next army is going to be!! when are they coming??
We can have a game now D :P
-
Blood Angels in April!
Showed the pics earlier to my friends and they, well two of them said: BOUGHT!
-
Omg, must start saving! Sell some stuff I dont need! Like, my PC, TV and... my glasses!
More pictures Lord! :O
-
The sprues look awesome (see warseer). :::cheers:::
-
I dont go to whineseer, good sir.
I cant navigate their site. And i hate whiners :dry:
-
I only read the rumour round-up but here you go:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248074
-
Thanks mah homie! :mrgreen:
-
I only read the rumour round-up but here you go:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248074
Wow. Those Blood Angels look absolutely awesome.
The models for the Sanguinary Guard with that SC... just wow. And cool rules-wise as well. I like the idea of the grapple thingy on dreads. Reminds me of good old Scorpion in Mortal Kombat 2. "Come HERE!" *WHAM!*
:-D
-
Hmmm ... space marines with wings ... what about just wearing a jump pack or something? Whats the fluff behind space marines having wings?
Looks a bit like something one might see on a Chaos Space Marine, maybe.
Course I might be displaying my ignorance regarding 40K on this, but oh well, learning can be good. :icon_cool:
-
To be honest, I agree with GamesPoet. Why would the Blood Angels special guard and character have angelic wings instead of jump-packs?
:engel:
-
Plastic wings!
HArpy conversionŽ
-
I thought a harpy was big?
But feathery wings for a harpy isnt really right, in my mind :P
-
And that is why you will never succeed.
-
Well Harpies mythologically = women/bird crosses.
The ones I bought are the old bat looking ones from the Beastmen book. I bought a load off ebay without wings, so plastic wings which I can pin on would be great.
-
Oooh!
Sorry i was thinking of the Tyranid Harpy thing!
For DE harpies they might work :) just paint them darkish colours.
-
To be honest, I agree with GamesPoet. Why would the Blood Angels special guard and character have angelic wings instead of jump-packs?
:engel:
Not like their primarch had wings and could fly or anything...Where's my sarc mark?
-
Fact is, after an initial rush to "OMG gotta have some Blood smurfs!!!" I felt that I really should get that Chaos Space marine force my son has been pushing me too do sometime started. Cheapest possible GW army to collect sort of.
But not really one of those Chaos fanatic armies but more of a mercenary company of self-serving marines with an inclination for Khrone but with their own set of... "honour". :engel:
I mean, you would get to shout "Blood for the Blood god!" now and then, but in a somewhat casual manner fitting a mercenary. :icon_mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
-
Yeah, Sanguinius had wings. The blood angels are nuts because of his geneseed, why not get wings from it too?
Black Templar are the best Marines around. Who couldn't love that color scheme?
Phil
-
People with a fear of monochrome.
-
Yeah, Sanguinius had wings. The blood angels are nuts because of his geneseed, why not get wings from it too?
Black Templar are the best Marines around. Who couldn't love that color scheme?
Phil
Pfft. It's the Ultramarines, of course. Anyone wearing blue can't go wrong... :closed-eyes:
:icon_mrgreen:
-The General
-
Black templars also look awesome!
I dno about their rules though, I heard they were a bit outdated.
-
Black Templar are the best Marines around. Who couldn't love that color scheme?
How may I take your order? Me!
Painting lining with black is as fun as shaving my bean bag with a pair of slow sheep shears.
The fluff however, yeah but I rather go with the alternative Red Templars' color found in the Space Marine codex.
-
Very true, Shadowlord. Red tabards with white crosses, in a variation of the colours of the Knights of St. John.
-
They need to get to Black templars now, I'm dying for a hand to hand marine army, wolves aren't bad but not my thing, and the twilight... blood angels sorry are also only ok, the templars knight theme i love more.
still waiting for someone to mispell harpies as herpies :icon_rolleyes:
-
BA are up on the GW website for pre-order:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/landingArmy.jsp?catId=cat400003a&rootCatGameStyle=
BUY!
-
I dont see those red jump pack guys :?
-
Well bugger me sideways with a Japanese whaling vessel.
I may have to purchase some of that action.
-
Well bugger me sideways with a Japanese whaling vessel.
Have you been spending time with Shadowlord again?
-
I think he must have been around the Sea Sheperds lately. I donīt think Shadowlord uses whaling vessels. Itīs below him... He strangles the whales with his bare hands.
-
Damn 20Ģ for 5 models. This is really expensive xD
-
Damn 20Ģ for 5 models. This is really expensive xD
Ha! Have you looked at Terminators lately?
-
Damn 20Ģ for 5 models. This is really expensive xD
Indeed, and I only want the wings!
-
Buy them when they come on ebay Finlay, you cant be the only one in need of wings :P
-
When making space marines, I'm contemplating creating The Mentors, because of their color scheme and what minimal background I've seen. Regarding this chapter, besides the usual locations on the internet located in the first few pages of google, has anyone seen anything about these guys fluff wise, elsewhere?
-
Lexicanium is pretty much the end all and be all of 40k fluff and it is fantastic!
Phil
-
Thanks, and yes, read what they ahd on The Mentors, but also recall something about them not seeming to be completely upto date regarding what The Mentors are currently like fluff wise.
Has anyone seen mention of these guys in any of the Black Library's stuff :icon_question:
-
I think there is a blurb from the most recent Marine book, but the Lexicanium normally tabulates everything from the novels eventually.
Phil
-
I need a Math dude.
You know that I am, like Shadowlord, starting a blood angels army.
But i need to know wether that twinlinked assault cannon Baal predator is a solid antitank choice or if i need to expand my horizon and use lascannons?
-
From my gut feeling, I'd rather go for the flamer equipped one if I took a Predator at all. Lascannons are a better AT choice. But meltas and multimeltas, along with Dreadnought cc should be the best AT, and the BAs are a very in-your-face army. So I propably wouldn't bother using anything as static as a Devastator squad. Besides, there are other very nice things in the heavy support section, I love the concept of that asssault transport skimmer... shame there won't be a model for it. Which is a bit problematic, because a Valk seems a bit too small to transport 12 Marines and a Dreadnought.
-
I dno about the flame Baal. It is a risky choice since it only has 10 in rear armour.
Im gonna use my valkyrie for the stormraven i think. I always thought that the dreadnought would be carried underneath it or something.
-
Is the TLAC meant for heavy, medium, or light armor duty?
It will shred light armor, do decently against medium, and mostly bounce off of heavy, though with the shear number of shots you'll do something.
You have a 59% chance to get a six for armor pen each time you roll.
So you'll generally be penning 9-12, glancing 13, and doing crapall to 14.
-
Well my friend and i were trying to come up with some numbers and our result was that it actually has a higher chance than a single lascannon.
But it might be a crap math thing:P
Oh and we are talking Av14 :P
-
Did some tinkering with the WWII 1/35 scale models last night.
Now I got to paint an ork Battlewagon based on an Elephant tank destroyer, a Battlewagon or Looted Boomwagon using a Sherman and finally a Wartrakk with plates and twinlinked rokkitz based on a 250/9 german halftrakk with a Nebelwerfer mounted upon it! :icon_mrgreen:
I also assembled my Stormboyz and managed to make one properly noby by giving him a Big Choppa and a bigger Slugga. How sweet those Stormboyz are! Truly magnificent piece of minis.
-
Well my friend and i were trying to come up with some numbers and our result was that it actually has a higher chance than a single lascannon.
But it might be a crap math thing:P
Oh and we are talking Av14 :P
Las has a 22% chance of doing *something* to AV14. TLAC has a 27% chance.
So really about the same.
-
And what does the assault cannon have? :P
It is also fast so you might have that extra mobility it requires to get a flank shot.
-
Oh sorry, i read the TLAC as a twinlinked lascannon :P.. thanks!
-
Note that that's only twinlinked AC's though.
Assault cannon's have around 9%.
-
Hehe yea and i hit those 9% once :P
What about a twin lascannon?
-
I'm playing in a tournament next weekend, and I am a bit undecided concerning my current list. It basically has:
a Tzeentch-maked DP with wings, Chaoswind and Warptime
Tzeentch General on a Disk with Demon weapon
2 7-man CSM squads in Rhinos with toyed-up Champs and IOCG, one with plasma, one with melta focus
7 Thousand Sons in a Rhino, sorcerer with Doombolt
8 Berzerkers in a Landraider with a fist Champ
6 Raptors with a wolverine champ and 2 flamers to keep the General company
a Defiler
The LR the 'zerkers ride in and
5 Havocs in a rhino, toting 4 plasma guns.
Now, I am seriously considering getting rid of the Sons. I love them dearly, but I just don't seem to get my mileage out of them. With some shuffling around, that would allow me to include some DS-ing Terminators (pretty nice with those icons around) and either a Greater Demon or a Chaos Dreadnought. I favor the Dreadnought at the moment because I have a soft spot for it, and a nicely painted model besides. I know it has its problems, but hey! What doesn't? The GD would mean sacrificing one of my champs, and frankly they are not very disposable. The ones in my standard squads have either a fist or powersword plus combiweapon, so that would be a rather expensive sacrifice.
The main problem with the whole idea is I would only have three standards...
Revised (possible) list follows. Ideas are welcome!
*************** 2 HQ ***************
Demon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Warptime
- Wind of Chaos
- - - > 205
Chaos Lord
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Demonweapon
- Demonic mount
- - - > 175
*************** 2 Elite ***************
Chaos Dreadnought
- Plasma Cannon
- DCCW
- Heavy Flamer
- additional armor
- - - > 125
4 Chaos Terminators
- 1 x Chainfist
- 3 x combimelta
- 1 x Heavy Flamer
- - - > 155
*************** 3 Troops ***************
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melta
+ Aspiring Champion
- Combimelta
- Power Fist
+ Rhino
- - - > 210
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Plasma Gun
+ Aspiring Champion
- Combiplasma
- Power Sword
- Meltabombs
+ Rhino
- - - > 210
8 Khorne Berzerkers
+ Skull Champ
- Power Fist
- - - > 208
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
5 Raptors
- 2 x Flamers
+ Aspiring Champion
- pair of Power Claws
- - - > 150
*************** 3 Unterstützung ***************
Defiler
- Battlecannon
- DCCW
- DCCW
- - - > 150
Chaos Land Raider
- Demonic Engine
- - - > 240
5 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Plasma Guns
+ Rhino
- - - > 170
Total: 1998
-
I'd just take Orks if I were you. :icon_wink:
-
I'll be facing some Orcs. Races are actually pretty concentrated in this event. There'll be me as the only CSM player, one Tyranid, one Dark Eldar. All the rest are IG, Orcs and Space Marines.
-
Don't mind me. I saw your list and it looked complicated, and decided to post something silly. :icon_wink:
-
I assume you mean plasma cannons and not guns on the Havocs?
-
No its plasma guns, Havocs cant get cannons.
I dont know about your list though. It looks small for a 2k list. I rarely play 2k so i dont know that much about it.
I dont know how useful those havocs will be. Maybe change them with a vindicator?
-
Oh, the Havocs are tried and tested, and they work like a charm. They can just sit in their mobile bunker and pepper something with 4 shots from the hatches, or disembark and really put on the hurt with a solid torrent of 8 plasma shots. That tends to leave a large, smoking dent in most targets. I am rather proud of the idea actually.
I am more troubled about my number of troops choices for capturing objectives. Trouble is that the very cheapest troops choice I can take costs me 65 points (a squad of 5 summoned demons), and freeing up that much without changing the structure of the list is out of the question. I could just take the same list as last time I suppose (that one got me 4 wins, 1 loss at the last tournament), but I thought that would be boring. It's not that much different, I basically leave out the Chaos Lord and the Dreadnought and take 5 Terminators instead of 4 and 8 T-sons. I'm just looking for a good way to give my Lord another go at it without changing too much.
-
Thats good then! :-D
I dont know much about the chaos guys, but TS and their Ap3 is nice :P
Note on Blood angels: The codex is out on the interwebs. PM me. :icon_rolleyes:
-
Wowzers. The Death Company is basically Khorne Berzerkers on Steroids. All the goodies those get, plus feel no pain and relentless. For less points. With more equipment options. For the little "drawback" of rage. Which doesn't matter squat if you transport them. In their fast transports. Just rush a Rhino forward 18" in the first turn and smoke, on the second turn disembark 6" and charge. With my Chaos dudes I need a freakin' Land Raider to pull this off.
Add Lemartes or another Chaplain to the squad (for those sweet, sweet rerolls to hit and wound), and you might be looking at the best assault troops in the game.
But even without the chaplain, you are looking at 40 S5 WS5 attacks at I5 for 200 points. And you can just add powerswords, fists or thunderhammers as you please.
Sick!
Those guys should curbstomp a unit of 30 Moshaboyz without breaking a sweat.
-
So 40k is still the more balanced system?
-
Wowzers. The Death Company is basically Khorne Berzerkers on Steroids. All the goodies those get, plus feel no pain and relentless. For less points. With more equipment options. For the little "drawback" of rage. Which doesn't matter squat if you transport them. In their fast transports. Just rush a Rhino forward 18" in the first turn and smoke, on the second turn disembark 6" and charge. With my Chaos dudes I need a freakin' Land Raider to pull this off.
Add Lemartes or another Chaplain to the squad (for those sweet, sweet rerolls to hit and wound), and you might be looking at the best assault troops in the game.
But even without the chaplain, you are looking at 40 S5 WS5 attacks at I5 for 200 points. And you can just add powerswords, fists or thunderhammers as you please.
Sick!
Those guys should curbstomp a unit of 30 Moshaboyz without breaking a sweat.
Hehe yea and their job is to die. Guess they will hope that they wont suceed in close combat :P
But i was thinking about getting them jump packs but i see your point:P. Lemartes seems very expensive (chaplains in general)
Im having a hard time fitting stuff into a list, they are very expensive.
And all those elite choices! yummy! But its hard to choose a normal HQ which isnt a special character.
-
I was thinking about Astorath the Grim, 2 Librarian Furiosos and 2 units of mounted-up Death Company as the armies hammers. The problem I have with Astorath is choosing an appropriate bodyguard for him that won't b wiped out by a single round of rapid-fire and that still packs a punch. And it needs to be jump-pack troops. I guess normal Assault Marines would work... 10 or so. With Astorath leading the army they have a 50% chance of having Red Thirst and therefore furious charge. They can pull off a "Descent of Angels" attack when some of the enemy firepower is already destroyed or engaged.
-
Well, t12, I believe 40K suddenly turned Rock-paper-sissor again... :icon_rolleyes:
I mean, they just had to create a insane assault army that basically win or loose by turn two. Not my idea of fun but I am sure many competitive gamers will be jubilant.
How the heck do my Boyz counter such an army! :icon_eek:
Best make sure my son NEVER gets to read the Blood Angel codex. Sure as hell ainīt gonna by it myself. Not a chance... Thing is he was into the Blood Angels old list before he got the Lysander mini and turned towards the Imperial fists.
Okay, I guess I better get myself a shitload of what... Boomwagons... and pray their first volley lands on target cause there sure wonīt be a second volley. Oh, that an some Meganobz with claws. And lots of Gretchin fodder to tie them down for a round so I an blast a bit more and hopefully gun the red smurfs down before they reach my line.
-
Orcs should have plenty of ways to deal with BA. Orcs are pretty much one of the strongest 'dexes in 40k right now.
In case it has escaped you: You are playing an "insane assault army" as well...
:wink:
-
Yes stop that nonsense Mathi. Orks can outnumber them 3:1 and have the same number of attacks :P
-
Nice stuff Aldaris but you lack objective takers :dry:
-
I said those units would form the hammer of the army. That should be (very roughly) about 1350 or so. Still would leave me plenty of room for more standards.
-
Oh you play 2k? ... Meh :P
Its hard to make a 1.5k
Heres my try:
HQ: Librarian with jump pack, psychic powers not decided (joins one assault squad)
Elite:
Chaplain, nilla, joins death Comp
Librarian furioso with drop pod / maybe this should go since it has to enter play in turn one.
Troops:
9 Death company
- 1 powerfist
- 3 powerweapons.
In rhino with extra armour
10 assault marines
- powerfist
- 2 meltas
10 assault marines
- powerfist
-1 melta
Fast:
Dakka baal
-heavy bolters
Dakka baal
- heavy bolters
-
Well, I have seen a 20 strong mob get whiped out by one Demolisher template. I have also expirienced how my proud slugga boyz with a nob first almost broke a unit of Space marines and then got slaughtered in the coming rounds when Lysander muscled in.
In the end, he passed his saves much more easily than I passed mine on +6. :icon_razz:
Orkz are brutal in the assault... against Guards, eldars and such. Against Marines I feel they mostly just end up pounding metal screaming guttural curses while the Marines calmy reload their bolters.
I realize that if they take down one unit of boyz, they will not be able to overrun into the next and I will be able to make a counter-assault. Still, the only thing I trust in making any dent into a Marine squad is a powerclaw, and the only unit able to trott many of them are the nobz. And sorry, I sort of like to take a balanced force, and I love the shoota boyz.
My elites, my nobz that is, might stand a chance in a scrap. The rest will have to cling on for grim Green and pray my son flukes his saving throws.
Now, I am planning to add a large unit of burna boyz to my army. At present I got 5 of them. But the problem is that since he Marine boyz got better initiative, there will not be many Burna boyz left to use the burnaz upon them.
Hence, I guess I better load up on Rokkit launchaz... Anything that helps me kill those brutes before they reach my innocent ladz is a good thing.
And then we have my Imperial guardsmen that are slowly growing. I guess I will have to take back my desicion of droping the Missile launchers in favour of Heavy bolters and such. Seems the wise thing to do is get a battery or two of them, and not to forget them plasma guns on each squad.
Oh, and I really need to get Stormtrooper. One squad was planned since it would fit my theme, but if I will have to face them Bloodies in the future I will need something like 2 squads maked out on Marine killing shootaz.
This is the problem when you make one force simply too good at shooting or too good at CC. It turns the game into Rock-Paper-Sissor and settles it on turn two depending on if I can kill enough of the oncoming tide of destruction. When something gets so good that you simply cannot risk any CC whatsoever, things turn ugly.
So max out on plasma guns, Imperial fellows, and maybe keep some meltas. The Blood Angels are coming and they will slaughter anything in their path.
So what if they are few. If they donīt die and my ladz does, they will soon be in majority on the table. Hence, donīt try any heroics against Blood Angels. Load up on stuff that pierces AS3 and AS2 and shot them to smithereens... Donīt give them a chance of getting at you or the game is lost. Sure, it wonīt be so fun for the Blood Angel player, but itīs him or me.
-
Dude what are you talking about?
Your boyz' nobz can also have power claws and the marines are bound to fail their saves with that mass of attack.
Also use kill kanonz, they are awesome.
Also the blood angels arent crazy overpowered like you are screaming about. Its only the Death company that is a monster in CC, but they have rage, so if you shoot their rhino (av11!!) you can lure them practically anywhere.
The rest of the army is almost just a spacemarine army, with assault squads. They only have 1 attack in their profile, so 3 attacks when assaulting. Not nearly enough to eradicate lots of orcs.
Sure they have awesome dreads, but if they get immobilised they can just stand there and look stupid.
-
Well, I have seen a 20 strong mob get whiped out by one Demolisher template.
Then you should seriously work on your spacing. It should never, ever be possible for your opponent to get so many under one template. Not even after a deepstrike - use your shooting phase to run and disperse a bit.
The only situation I can think of that would result in boyz being this packed at all is if you assaulted a vehicle, after which you're not allowed to consolidate. This you need to take into account - if there's a high propability you'll be plastered with templates in your opponents turn, don't give him fat, juicy targets.
-
Well, I think there was not 20 orkz, maybe 15 or so. I was mobbing up on my sons IG HQ. He held somehow, he turned his demolisher cannon my way. I asked if he really wanted to do it since he would risk scattering into his own men. One reason for me getting up close and personal was too grab him by the belt and avoid his blasting.
He fired anyway and landed perfectly. :dry:
Alright, I play orkz the orky way. My ladz donīt give a crap about formation and stuff. They wanna shoot some dakka and crump stuff, thatīs it! :icon_razz:
Hmm... I think my tankbustaz may come in handy...
-
You cant shoot into close combat?
Your best bet would be a walker army.
-
guys I need help. I want to do a 40k army but can't decide what.
Armies I'm interested in:
Tau - simply because they are apparently really hard to play with
Orks - models are awesome and speedfreaks "Helz Orksus" really really appeals to me
Space Wolves - drop pod assault army
Imperial Fists - Lysander and I like the Yellow/black scheme
I have some nids' but I'm in the process of selling them I also have a few tau figs
I don't want to derail this thread from it's current direction but I would appreciate some help and advice on 40k as I have no idea at all about the game (not having played since 3rd ed).
-
Space wolves arent the only droppod assault army. Normal spacemarines can do it just aswell, but the wolves are nasty in CC. More nasty than Blood angels.. mathi :P
Anyways. Tau has cool army and are best when mechanised so they can deploy rapidly and avoid CC with their fire warriors.
Right now we see a tendency of mechanised lists in 40k because transports have become very cheap, so an army without transports is going to be driven around.
If you want to try a difficult army, then try Grey knights. They are really difficult but not totally chanceless.
-
Orkz, cause they rocks! No, not because they are powerful and competitive and such gibberish Mcknight and them weakhearted folks talk about but because they rocks!
You get mean, then you go green! :closed-eyes:
As for walkers, I donīt own a single ork walker, Mcknight. They donīt really fit my theme. I have vehicles and battlewagons and lots and lots of boyz. That is my theme.
I guess I could put buzzsaws on my Deffkoptaz though...
Alright, alright. I know them new Kanz are really a good bargain moneywise, and yes they are cool. But I have plans for two battlewagons, beyond the one my Nobz rides in, and then I am making a battery of Kannonz, cause it feels so awesome to field proper artillery for once in 40K.
And I try to put as much of the 1/35 scale models to use as possible. Including anti-tank guns etc...
I guess I could get me a Deff Dread though, and field it in a 2500 point army so I can get my Big mek in aswell. But it will not fit into my 2000 point force at the moment.
I could drop a Battlewagon but only two battlewagons in total is not proper and unorky... Especially for a band of orkz who specializes in Forvart Rekun! :icon_razz:
-
This for Mathi and his rabid ranting...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CbSWEUnVCVU/S3JqVpQuduI/AAAAAAAABEo/dh6IVq2IQos/s1600/If%2BThe%2BRumours%2BWere%2BTrue.jpg)
You walk around with just boyz without transports, you are bound to loose against guards.
-
Space wolves arent the only droppod assault army. Normal spacemarines can do it just aswell, but the wolves are nasty in CC. More nasty than Blood angels.. mathi :P
Say what? :icon_confused:
-
They have more attacks, counter assault and mark of wulfen for starters.
Can get reroll to hit and wound with their lightning claw armed terminators with a priest etc
-
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
-
AWell you could start to drive more than 6" then he only hits on 6s...
-
But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
How will he do that, unless you already did move, thus making you rather hard to hit? And he'd be doing you a favor actually. CCing a transport full of assault troops gets you exactly one result: being assaulted by them next turn.
-
Alright, I play orkz the orky way. My ladz donīt give a crap about formation and stuff. They wanna shoot some dakka and crump stuff, thatīs it! :icon_razz:
Da orks is cunnning and brutal, not just brutal. :icon_wink:
-
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Be creative, not just a bull dog. :icon_wink:
-
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Be creative, not just a bull dog. :icon_wink:
Hey stop derailing the topic xD
-
Eyy! Yer talkin like em Blood axes, ye gitty umies! By the way I believe you cannot assault the turn you disembark normally. Or have I gotten that wrong?
-
You can from opentopped vehicles and assault vehicles (landraiders and stormravens).
In normal transports you can assault if you disembark before the vehicle has moved.
-
Pfft... Today I have two trukkz and two battlewagons to carry my boyz around. I plan to make a stug to a third battlewagon. But what good will that do against turn one powerfistpacking red smurfs?
Be creative, not just a bull dog. :icon_wink:
Hey stop derailing the topic xD
The thread title, at the moment, does say, "40K". :::cheers:::
-
What does a bull dog have to do with anything 40k ? XD
-
Everything! The bulldog personifies the greatest virtues of them all: Presistence.
-
What does a bull dog have to do with anything 40k ? XD
See Mathi's post above. Its his method of playing 40K orks, and looks like its his view of playing the game as a whole. :icon_wink:
Mathi ... orks are suppose to be both cunning and brutal. That's how they can beat anybody. Including the Blood Angels. :::cheers:::
-
Rubbish, I can be cunning playing the game in many ways. But the tactical advice given by a master ork strategist in the Codex is. And I quote:
Get em ladz! Dakka, dakka, dakka! Waagh, the orkz! WAAGH!
Now first Dakka an then Waagh! Seems mightie kunnin to mee, umiee!
-
And what page is that on?
-
Well, to learn how to play 40K the true way, you just need to listen to this tune and get in the mood.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf45I1ZI__w
-
Ok Mathi, but that doesn't answer the question.
And fire first, then charge ... can't be that cunning with the Ork ballistic skills being low. :icon_wink:
Good luck Mathi. :::cheers:::
-
It is still in the book. Straight from the horses... eh, I mean Orkzies mouth! :icon_razz:
-
Preordered 2 death companies and a sanguinary guard box at my work! yay! :D
What do you guys think of this list (i have made gazillions)?
HQ: Dante
Troops:
10 death company w/ 2 powerweapons
1 Death company dread
10 assault marines w/ 2 meltas and powersword
Sanguinary guard w/ 1 inferno pistol
Fast:
2 baal preds with heavy bolters and assault cannon
Heavy:
Stormraven, twin multimelta and twin assault cannon
-
Only one scoring unit.
It is killy, but all your opponent needs to do is kill the assault squad to get at least a draw in 2/3 of all missions.
-
Oops sorry, Dante makes the Sanguinary guard troops. :P
2 scoring units. :P
Oh and the death company guys and dread go in the stormraven.
-
Still too few...
-
Hey I play grey knights! Im used to 2 :P
But what do you suggest then?
-
Has the Blood Angels list changed or is it still that d/l version from a year or so back?
-
I believe the updated version has come out or comes out soon.
-
Yes it has changed. It will be out on april 4th i think
-
Hmmm, the last one had a great loophole army I almost built.
52 Jump marines including command characters and Death squad or whatever they are called
10 (2x5) Assault Terminators.
1800 pts.
45 Jump marines including command characters etc with slightly different wargear
10 (2x5) Assault Terminators
1700 pts.
Would have been worth it just to say in most missions. Ok, my deployment is done. With nothing on the table. and still have 5 scoring units! Plus unlike every other army I ever made, 60 or so models total.
Only other theme army I made similar was the 83 Genestealer plus 1 Broodlord army. "What's a shooting phase?" It was sweet b/c the game rarely went past turn 4. I've either sliced and diced or was shot to pieces. Nice tourney army! Occasionally you get to hit the enemy with a full squad on the Charge, 48 rending attacks...
Awesome.
-
so, I'll be off for the two day 40K tournament soon. Really looking forward to it too. My finalized list:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Demon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Warptime
- Wind of Chaos
- - - > 205
*************** 2 Elite ***************
Chaos Dreadnought
- Plasma Cannon
- DCCW
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 110
5 Chaos Terminators
- 1 x Chainfist
- 2 x combimelta
- 2 x combiplasma
- 1 x Heavy Flamer
- - - > 190
*************** 5 Troops ***************
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melta
+ Aspiring Champion
- Combimelta
- Power Fist
+ Rhino
- - - > 210
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Plasma Gun
+ Aspiring Champion
- Combiplasma
- Power Sword
- Meltabombs
+ Rhino
- - - > 210
8 Khorne Berzerkers
+ Skull Champ
- Power Fist
- Personal Icon
- - - > 213
5 Summoned Demons
- - - > 65
5 Summoned Demons
- - - > 65
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
6 Raptors
- 2 x Flamers
+ Aspiring Champion
- pair of Power Claws
- - - > 170
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Defiler
- Battlecannon
- DCCW
- DCCW
- - - > 150
Chaos Land Raider
- Demonic Engine
- - - > 240
5 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Plasma Guns
+ Rhino
- - - > 170
Total: 1998
-
Personally nowadays I would never go Warptime with my Prince, as it makes you reroll hits too (as far as I recall).
Also, some may remember (doubtful) that I once said I can't paint tanks. I tried doing a rhino for my Death Guard (so all nurgly) and here is the dubious result:
(http://j.imagehost.org/0181/nurglerhino.png)
It's fortunate I chose nurgle, it lets me be messy. :evil:
-
I don't think that looks bad at all!
-
Nah, I think it looks quite good! :icon_cool: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
In fact, since my magnifying light is out of commission at this point, I might try painting some of my Ork vehicles.
-
Looks smashing! You should see my tanks before you claim you canīt paint! I would be darn proud to have your level of skill. :::cheers:::
-
It looks very nice!
I have no idea how i will paint my leman russes.
Tell us how your tournament goes, Aldaris
I tried the Blood angels yesterday. They are nice, but the sanguinary guard isnt that awesome, actually a little meh .
-
tbh reading the codex Im not sure why you wouldn't just go for regular assault marines, 10 assault marines cost the same as 5 sanguinary guards, you can stick a sanguinary priest in them and get feel no pain, you actually get an extra 10 attacks as the sanguinary guard powerweapons are two handed.
AND the assault guys would be scoring.
this all from a guy who doesn't have a good idea of the game either :engel:
-
I know!
I thought the same thing when i saw them die. But well. I ordered the models, as i love them. But you are right Bies.
With Dante they are scoring though.
Their positive side is that they have powerweapons. Thats neat. And for 30 pts extra they get another attack. 4 power weapon attacks on the charge. Thats nice, but still Initiative 4 and ws4, and s4..Sucks
-
Nice Rhino, MrDwhitey!
And why would the ability to re-roll hits be bad? I am confused. That ability is awesome. Reroll to hit, reroll to wound. And that reroll to wound works for Wind of Chaos as well as close combat. And you can do it in your turn and your opponents!
but anyway, now for the
TOURNAMENT REPORT!
:::cheers:::
I am back from the tournament, and very tired. Heaps of fun, but 5 2000 points games in 2 days are pretty exhausting mentally.
Each game 4000 points could be made, 2000 for the enemy army (with the system for 4th edition that's basically identical to WH Fantasy), 2000 for the mission. In Capure and Control there was one objective per player worth 1000 points each, in Take and Hold 5 objectives worth 400 points each, and in Killpoints 400 points per KP you had more than your opponent, up to a maximum of 5. In the last two games one also rolled for a secret "special mission" of varying degrees of difficulty that were worth 1000 points if achieved.
Game one:
I drew Space Marines, a Vulcan list. 2 5-man Terminator squads, one normal, one assault with cyclone launcher. One with Vulcan attached, the other had an Epistolary with that teleport power and the one that raises his initiative to 10. 2 10-Man Tac squads with missile/flamer and powersword divided into combat squads, the sarge/flamer element riding a standard Razorback. One Tac squad with melta/multimelta in a Rhino, LS Storm with cc scouts/fist. Then one more LS with multimelta and 2 Vindicators.
Mission was Capture and Control, deployment Pitched Battle.
I won a solid victory, holding my objective and contesting his as well as killing a good portion of his army.
Game two:
Eldar this time. An apparently pretty soft list that did surprisingly well in the tournament. He placed 4th overall. He had a kitted-out Farseer, a Dark Reaper squad with Maugan Ra, 2 Phantom Lords, 2 Scout teams with 8 each, 2 Guardian squads with a lance each and 2 squads of Dire Avengers in Falcons.
Mission was Take and Hold, deployment Dawn of War.
I completely wiped him off the table and got three objectives, netting me a nice 3200 point win.
Game three:
Demons. I have a friendly rivalry with this player, because he won the last tournament sky-high and I was the only one to beat him. He had (as best as I can remember, I don't know Demons too well): A Bloodthirster with stuff, a Demon Prince on foot with stuff, 2 units of Horrors with a changeling each and one of those S8 shooting attacks, some Flamers, 3 units of Bloodletters (one with Skulltaker), three Bloodcrushers with different kit each, 2 Soulgrinders and a unit of Plague bearers. I think that was it? Not sure.
Mission was Killpoints, deployment was Spearhead.
I lost by three, although it was pretty tight. I had both the Demon Prince and the Bloodthirster down to one HP each and reduced one unit of Bloodletters to one, another to two models. But the game was over, and had it continued I am sure he would have made more kills as well, so the finish was okay. Still made about 1000 points for my kills to his army though. Next tournament I'll get him again!
:-D
That was the end of day one, and on sunday the final two games were played. This time the time was slightly longer (3 1/2 hours instead of three per game) and the "secret missions" I mentioned earlier came into effect.
Game four: a pretty nasty Ork list. He had a big mob of 8 Boss Bikers with maxed wound groups, with his Waaaghboss on a bike attached. 2 Battle Wagons (are those the ones with AV14 front, open-topped?) with about a dozen lootas in each one. Those were side by side, with a Mek with Kustom Force Field in one giving them a cover save. Those guys pump out about 40-60 shots S7 with good range each round... and those tanks are not easy to shake with AV14 and the Force Field. This castle was surrounded by a moat of Grot mobs (I think he had 4 total) as melee cover. Three Killa Kans in a squadron, two Squadrons of 2 Buggys each (one with sync Bazookas and one with Burnas) and a Big Mob of Shootaboys (with the obligatory Powerclaw Boss) completed the list.
Phew!
During the night two sunday I thought long and hard how to tackle this monster, and concluded that I needed to get rid of the Bikers ASAP, no matter how and then go for the tanks, possibly with DSing Terminators and a close-range melta barrage.
Mission was Killpoints, deployment was Pitched Battle. And he went first... the secret mission I rolled was to clear his deployment zone of all enemies and have at least one of my units in there. Fat chance...
the game turned out to be an absurdly brutal massacre. My Demon Prince murdered, with lots of assistance, the Boss Bikers and the Waaaghboss, and on his own the squad of Killa Kans, one of the Battle Wagons and a Grot mob (not that the last one was much of an achievement, but hey). He was my star. At the end he had a bit more than 200 points remaining, I had about 470 left and was leading in Killpoints 12-11.
Huzzaaah! A WIN! I was pretty proud and grinning from ear to ear.
Until the pairings for match 5 were announced. Oh dear... I got the IG guy. He had completely wiped all of his previous opponents and was leading by a huge margin. Great... He had tons and tons of Infantry (I don't know, 160-180 men), I guess about a dozen Autocannons or more, 5 Lascannons, 2 mortar teams, 2 CCS in Chimeras, one Veteran Squad in a Chimera, a Medusa with Bastion Breaker shells, 1 'nilla Russ and a Demolisher. A huge solid wall of men with absolutely staggering firepower that pretty much filled his deployment zone.
I was so not looking forward to this... but whimpering piteously about my evil fate wouldn't help, so I decided on a plan. The mission was Capture and Control (so one objective each), deployment was Spearhead. My special mission was to keep my deployment zone clear of all enemies. Suited me fine. There was lots of terrain on the table, with a big ridge with a trench in it that ran along the long middle line.
There was no way in hell I would make it across to him with sufficient forces left to do anything meaningful, so I decided on total defense and denial.
I deployed my tanks in a wall, positioned the little long-range stuff I had so I could shoot and got every infantry mans ass either into a tank or out of line-of-sight behind something. And thus the most boring game of the weekend began.
He just sat there and shot, content to sit on his objective and unwilling to risk an attack (my marines were pretty much untouched behind a wall of destroyed Rhinos), and so I just put my guys faces into the dirt and waited for the bang-bang to end since I couldn't get to him without being shot to pieces. I deepstruck my Terminators and my Raptors and ran my Dreadnought over to do at least some damage and otherwise just shot with my Landraider at his Medusa (until I ate a Bastion Breaker) and with my Defiler at his Infantry and Chimeras (until it finally ate enought Lascannon and Autocannon ammo to assplode).
But the thing was: I got a draw. Held my objective, got 1000 points extra for keeping my deployment zone clean and some 300 or so points for those few kills I managed. so I still walked away with 2300 points, bored but content to have avoided the fate of my predecessors.
That was the final game. So I had three wins, one draw and one loss, placing 5th overall in a field of 16. Not too bad, I am pretty content.
And for the record: I like my new list. It works pretty harmoniously together. But masses with mass firepower, that is my doom. Can't cope with that.
-
dude.
Congrats man! great report, really enjoyed reading it.
-
Great stuff Aldaris! :::cheers:::
-
Congrats on your finish, interesting battle reports, thanks for taking the time to share. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
Thanks guys, I was still so hyped up on 40k when I got home last night that a short "I'm back, was fun" post evolved into this...
:-D
What I liked about this tournament is that most players actually brought pretty moderate lists, the way I like it. I am not sure I would care to play in a "take double Lash and 9 Oblits plus Plague Marine core or you're an idiot" kind of environment.
-
Good stuff!
I actually read that battle report through, i rarely do that!
Congratz on the 5th place too.
I have no idea how one should handle that IG list. But i am also amazed how he could fit all that in there :O
-
It does work. I don't remember exactly what he had, but 5 minutes with an AB made me the following:
*************** 2 HQ ***************
Company Command Squad
- Company Commander
- 1 x Veteran with Regimental standard
- 2 x Veteran with Meltagun
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 140
Company Command Squad
- Company Commander
- 2 x Veteran with Meltagun
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 125
*************** 4 Troops ***************
Infantry Platoon
+ Command Squad
- Platoon Commander
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Heavy Weapons Squad
- 3 x Mortar team
+ Heavy Weapons Squad
- 3 x Mortar team
- - - > 450
Infantry Platoon
+ Command Squad
- Platoon Commander
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Heavy Weapons Squad
- 3 x Autocannon team
- - - > 455
Infantry Platoon
+ Command Squad
- Platoon Commander
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Heavy Weapons Squad
- 3 x Autocannon team
- - - > 225
Veteran Squad
- 3 x Veteran with Meltagun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 155
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Leman Russ Squadron
+ - Leman Russ Battle Tank
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 150
Leman Russ Squadron
+ - Leman Russ Demolisher
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 165
Ordnance Battery
+ - Medusa
- Heavy bolter
- Bastion-breacher shells
- - - > 140
Imperial Guard : 2005
That's about 170 guardsmen, 11 autocannons, 5 lascannons and 7 meltas, plus plenty of HB, Multilasers and Ordnance.
-
As to how to handle it, an IG list with three squadrons of three 'Russ should handle it well. 9 pie plates per turn plus pretty large infantry screen (should still have the points for 70-80 Infantry with 3 Autocannons and 3 Lascannons plus some Mortars) should be able to deal with those masses I guess.
-
That army seems more appropriate for Apoc games. That list being at 2,000 points is quite a bit of stuff for a regular 40K game. I've done some games in the 1,000 to 1,500 point range, but everything else I have thrown in is usually saved for the Apoc games I like joining. Yet I've seen quite a few tournies venture into the 1750 to 1850 level.
Is there a trend where folks are starting to see 2K and larger point total games with 40K?
-
After playing some Dawn of War 2, I really want to play a vanilla marines army. With no rhinos, only razorbacks!
Or maybe orks. :engel:
-
Holy cow!!! :O
Thats a lot of guardsmen! :O
Did he combine squads ?
And yes pie plates are the solution. But damn thats alot ! Well done on keeping them at "bay" (even though he didnt go offensive). That might have done him well to attack you. He would have overwhelmed your marines totally :P
-
Indeed, that is one huge army!
As for 2000 point becoming a new higher limit for normal 40K, well, I think I see that number more and more in WD and see lists like that appear on many places, so yes, I do belive that might be the case.
-
And yes pie plates are the solution. But damn thats alot ! Well done on keeping them at "bay" (even though he didnt go offensive). That might have done him well to attack you. He would have overwhelmed your marines totally :P
With a high propability, yes. But Terrain and Rhino wrecks would have neccessitated coming up real close to even see my guys, allowing me to assault and giving me a small chance. Khorne Berzerkers alone can wipe out 3+ squads of Guardsmen easily on the charge if they get that many into contact. The course he took was just the totally safe one, as he had already wiped out 4 opponents and was content with the points he got through this route.
-
Sounds boring... the other option would have been much more epic :icon_mrgreen:
-
Sounds boring...
Yep. As I already noted in the report.
:wink:
-
I know! As i said, i actually read this one xD
I might play a 2k game tonight. But standard games in Southern Denmark is 1500 :)
I think the national tournaments also are 1500pts
-
I like to play 1750, but prefer 2000 points. That has room for some of the cool options that are just not cost-effective at lower points and can still be comfortably played in 3 hours.
-
There was an incident and I accidently bought a combat squad of space marines. Time for yellow marines!
-
I wonder why they don't sell full squads of 'beaky' marines anymore. They look better than the grinning ones.
I want that new predator tank that is all flame-throwers. It's the perfect combination of the best-looking tank and the best type of weapon.
There was an incident and I accidently bought a combat squad of space marines. Time for yellow marines!
Call them the Wombatsquids!
-
Call them the Wombatsquids!
Ah, the famous descendants of Primarch Sparkfirus.
-
They kind of do sell beakies. Red Scorpians look quite cool. I was looking at them last night. They are Ģ16 for half the bits you need to make an entire unit though.
-
I say you should go forth and do the most illustrious yellow marines.
The Angry Marines. :engel:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/211252.page
-
They kind of do sell beakies. Red Scorpians look quite cool. I was looking at them last night. They are Ģ16 for half the bits you need to make an entire unit though.
I can't find that on the GW site.
It looks like you get two beaky hats in a tactical squad (and also two in that strange 'combat squad' box that has only five models but somehow costs more than half of what the tactical squad costs). Is that right?
-
You might want to take a look at Forgeworld, the Red Scorpions is their chapter as far as I know.
-
Oh, Forgeworld. I don't like resin models.
Can blood angels use the scout clown-car speeder?
-
Yep.
The speeder itself that is. Not the Storm variant, which carries scouts.
-
No clown-car? So there's no way to have both a clown-car and a flame-throwing predator tank?
-
They have flying landraiders with slightly less armour. :engel:
-
No clown-car? So there's no way to have both a clown-car and a flame-throwing predator tank?
What is the clown car? The Landspeeder or the specific variant (Storm) thereof? They have the first, they don't have the second.
They have flying landraiders with slightly less armour. :engel:
*sigh* if only it were slightly less... but an AV12 skimmer for 200 points upwards? Teehee... nice concept, but totally overcosted. It isn't like the BA are short on fast delivery systems...
-
I would prefer taking a landraider over the storm raven. Sure the storm raven can really stock up on weapons, but its very vulnerable to lascannon fire!
-
Lascannon fire? it is vulnerable to a freaking multilaser! That's the problem with that thing.
-
Aldaris is clearly a powergamer who wants his vehicles to be immune to everything. :icon_rolleyes:
I like the stormraven because it flies. That's about it.
I still need to make up the apocalypse rules for a floating fortress for my nurgle guys.
I really like flying things. Not small ones though.
-
Sarcasm aside: If I put 200+ points into one model (never mind the stuff inside), it better have at least a chance to survive enemy attention. Unfortunately, this thing can be brought down by absolutely any heavy weapon that is bigger than a Heavy Bolter. And costs a Heavy Support slot. That makes it bad.
A Vendetta has better firepower, same speed, same armor, transport capacity is slightly less but costs only 130 points and can be bought in squadrons. And it fills a unique role in the army nothing else can do remotely as well. That makes it good.
I really, really wanted to like the thing. But I can honestly see no role it could conceivably fulfill that can't be done by stuff that costs half as much or far less (like Droppods for precision insertion, fast transports, deepstriking Landraiders which have a comparable cost but will actually stand a chance to survive and have superior firepower as well). For the pure fast antitank the Stormraven can offer I could get a trio of attack bikes with multimeltas for roughly half or some Landspeeders, all of which do the same job.
-
From what I've seen, I fully agree. I just really love flying things. :-(
-
Yes you are right aldaris. But it is still awesome. But too vulnerable that i want to put my expensive stuff inside so they die. I rather want a landraider then.
But it is cool! but... arh..
-
If it had an awesome model, I'd propably get it for cool factor alone. But going to the trouble to convert something up I'll propably never use? I ain't Steveb...
:-D
-
Oh, Forgeworld. I don't like resin models.
I was going to point out that the upcoming releases of "Raven Guard" from Forgeworld have beak helmets, but I don't know if they are "resin" or not.
I'm curious as to what is it you don't like about resin models? I don't have any experience with them, but your view point could be helpful?
-
I support MrDWhitey. I love awesome flying things, even if they are crap. Hence why I am dreaming about more Deffkoptaz...
You should get a shot of the green stuff into you, Aldaris, learn that there are more awesome things than being competitive. Like big red flying things driving awfully fast and making spectacular booms in the air when a Hydra draws a bead on it! :icon_mrgreen:
Now, I wish the orks had some awesome flying model like the lucky bastards known as Guards and Blood Angels.
-
Kitbash either, and you'll have an awesome ork flying model. :icon_wink:
-
Someone made a Stormraven:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286057.page
It's ok.
-
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
-
You should get a shot of the green stuff into you, Aldaris, learn that there are more awesome things than being competitive.
...yeah... Orcs, the underdogs of 40K...
Maybe, but I like to build lists that can compete. That doesn't mean I take the standard stuff, hell, the CSM list I took to the tournament had 4 choices in it every 40K forum would tell you are utter crap. But they work well in a certain context. The Stormraven on the other hand just hampers your overall list without bringing anything new. BA choices are expensive enough, no sense in further shrinking your list down to fit in one.
Kudos to anyone who plays the thing anyway, but I certainly won't.
-
Guys I need some help. I'm planning on building a Guard army but I don't want to paint a lot of guardsmen and I came with this list. The idea is to have a fast and "elite" army with 2 veteranssquads in chimeras and 2 other veterans in the valks. I'm not sure on the upgrades for the squads so any advice is good since I'm new to 40k :blush:
HQ:
Company Command squad
Company Commander: Melta Bombs, Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Medipack
Krak Grenades
Carapace armour
Vox-caster
135
Chimera
Extra Armour 15, Dozer Blades , Heavy Stubber
90
Troops:
101 1st. Veteran Squad
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
160
Chimera
Extra Armour, Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
90
101 2nd. Veteran Squad
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
160
Chimera
Extra Armour, Dozer Blades , Heavy Stubber
90
101 3nd. Veteran Squad
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
160
101 4nd. Veteran Squad
Sgt: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, Plasma Gun
Grenadiers 30 (4+ save)
160
Fast Support
Valkyrie Assault Carrier
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters
155
Valkyrie Assault Carrier
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters
155
Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ
Heavy Flamer
Sponsons with Heavy Bolter
Extra armour
185
-
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
While I don't think the loyalist and traitors should switch sides, I do think the traitors have the better fluff. You just have to love the Death Guard for instance. And the Iron Warriors are also pretty cool. Not that the loyalist don't have any amazing legions. I really like the White Scars, Mongols in space FTW! :-D
-
Guys I need some help. I'm planning on building a Guard army but I don't want to paint a lot of guardsmen and I came with this list. The idea is to have a fast and "elite" army with 2 veteranssquads in chimeras and 2 other veterans in the valks. I'm not sure on the upgrades for the squads so any advice is good since I'm new to 40k :blush:
OK, let's start at the beginning. Ditch all that non-shooty stuff on the command squad. Those are supposed to sit in their comfy Chimera, give orders and use their BS of 4. No powerweapons, no Medics, no carapace. You just invest tons of points for close-combat equipment on guys who are frankly lousy fighters. But they are rather good shots! So give them 3 meltaguns or 3 plasmaguns to use that. The Chimera should mount a heavy flamer instead of the standard HB, costs are the same but when something gets close it is much deadlier. Dozerblade... OK. The stubber? Ok... I guess. Extra armor? Not worth it. Out it goes!
Then, your troops. Let me reiterate some basics when kitting Guard Infantry. They need to specialize, they need to be good at killing one type of target and focus on that.
First: loose the Powerswords on the Sgts. They are lousy fighters. They will lose combat against pretty much anyone, and the Powersword will not change that. They will just lose more expensively. Lose the heavy flamers in the squads with plasma guns. Focus your squads. If you want a squad good at killing heavy/elite infantry or monsters, take three plasma guns, and maybe throw in the pistol for the sarge.
If you want a flamer squad good at killing lots of lightly armored enemies, go all out on that. Heavy flamer and two flamers, or just three flamers. No plasma gun for the sarge, at best he'll kill one lousy light infantryman with his large and expensive gun, at worst he'll just fry himself with an overheat. Flamer on their Chimera as well.
If you want a squad good at killing armor and expensive elite infantry, get meltas. Three of them.
As I said: focus.
With those guidelines in mind, you should be able to do something about your list. And if you feel like doing some extensive reading on a pretty good Guard tactica, Go there:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212569 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212569)
The big Tactica Imperium sign there is a downloadlink. You'll find a document of well over a hundred pages of Guard tactics and unit choices. Check it out!
-
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
I beginning to think that what they done to the fluff actually adds to its strength and allows folks the flexibility to create what they'd like. I'm actually quite stunned by the beaty of 40K background. I recall PhillyT mentionning how much he liked, and now thta I've started to read it, I'm beginning to understand why.
In a way, both the SM and the CSM have their good sides and bad. If you want to be a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, you can pick either type of army and you could find reasons for both. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
The 40K fluff beats the fantasy fluff by a mile in my opinion, but I like both settings.
-
Not that I want to take this on a tangent, but I'm wondering if there is better fluff in the WFRPing than in WFB?
And if they are about the same, than perhaps because WFB stems from WFRPing, more leeway has been worked inot the system for folks to create whatever they want, where as with 40K, the background was given more consideration to create the miniature game, rather than a role playing game?
-
I have found some nice alternative minis to use in my guards army. Well, I shall see how many I can get, but they match the Cadians in size very well.
Enter Black Tree designs german Fallschirmsjaegers!
http://www.gamemaniacs.se/products/products_show_image.asp?imageName=WW2195.jpg%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&productName=FALLSCHIRMJAEGER+WITH+MG34%3As+%282%2B8%29
The Kar98 and MP40:s will not work, but if they just had the possibility to buy a bucketload of guys firing MG34 or MG42 from the hip you have dudes with potential.
However, I find these fellows with Sturmgewehr 44 pretty much looking the part as an alternative type of Stormtroopers, or as Veterans with the Grenadier skill.
http://www.gamemaniacs.se/products/products_show_image.asp?imageName=WW2155.jpg%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&productName=FALLSHIRMJAEGERS+WITH+MP44%3As+1+%288+figurer+per+f%F6rpackning%29
If you want to, make the lower part of a coat to hide the special Fallschirmsjaeger battledress and you got something looking very much like a Steel legion trooper. They got the same helmet after all!
Also, some converting to put meltas or plasmas in their hands and they are ready to kick ass!
Most of all, I can get 8 of these fellows for about 5 Euros! Would make my Guard army a true mixed feel, as if it is a force being put together for a specific task, or a Composite regiment made up of remants from several formations.
-
I've been reading some of the Space Marine fluff. Does anyone else wish they'd made the traitors the loyalists and vice versa? I much prefer the pre heresy fluff of the traitors than the ones that stayed loyal. The word bearers and the thousand sons are both way more interesting than the vampire and viking marines.
I beginning to think that what they done to the fluff actually adds to its strength and allows folks the flexibility to create what they'd like. I'm actually quite stunned by the beaty of 40K background. I recall PhillyT mentionning how much he liked, and now thta I've started to read it, I'm beginning to understand why.
In a way, both the SM and the CSM have their good sides and bad. If you want to be a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, you can pick either type of army and you could find reasons for both. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
I used to really like the 40k background. Then they started writing books about the Primarches and they went from being figures that you could interpret how you liked into boringness.
For example I've allways seen Magnus the Red as an unfortunate hero. If the Emperor had just listened to the message they would have been far more prepared and the whole Istivan thing wouldn't have happened. But since he was rejected and attacked he was forced to turn traitor. Apparently the new books talk about how he had to use human sacrifce and all this chaos bullshit to do the message. Which completely ruins the image I have of him. The original vague fluff made for much more interesting reading than the specific stuff they pump out now. God only knows what they have done to Fulgrim. His fluff was allways a bit rubbish to start with. An awesome character who just accepts he needs to rebel because Horus is his chum? Oh ok.
...It really annoys me the whole Primarch thing. All the loyalist ones suck ass and all the cool ones get turned into generic characters. The angry one is Khorne etc. Especially since Mortiation has pretty much no link to Nurgle before they just shove one in.
-
I agree. But the wonderful thing is that I don't read those novels and can therefore just keep the awesome image I have of Magnus.
Oh, and not all the loyalist ones suck ass. Sanguinius I like.
-
Sounds like I better avoid those Heresy novels like the plague then. :icon_sad:
I was planning on getting the one that dealt with the Alpha legion, but maybe I should avoid that one and allow my partially unruined idea of the Primarchs remain.
But what do you think of my idea about them Fallschirmsjaegers? :unsure:
-
Sorry if I bother you again but I made some changes to the armylist I posted before. I took the advices and here I present a more specialized "Blitzkrieg" army for 1409pts :engel:
HQ:
Company Command squad
Company Commander: Melta Bombs
Krak Grenades
Vox-caster
125
Chimera
Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
75
200
Troops:
101 1st. Veteran Squad
Sgt. Bolt pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, 2 flamer
Grenadiers (4+ save)
132
Chimera
Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
75
207
101 2nd. Veteran Squad
Sgt. Bolt pistol
Vox-caster, Heavy flamer, 2 flamer
Grenadiers (4+ save)
132
Chimera
Dozer Blades, Heavy Stubber
75
207
101 3st. Veteran Squad
Vox-caster , Plasma Guns * 3
Grenadiers (4+ save)
150
101 4nd. Veteran Squad
Vox-caster, Vox-caster, Plasma Guns * 3
Grenadiers (4+ save)
150
Fast Support
Valkyrie Assault Carrier 100
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters
155
Valkyrie Assault Carrier 100
Rocket pods
Lascannon
Sponsons of Heavy Bolters
155
Heavy Support
1 Leman Russ
Heavy Flamer
Sponsons with Heavy Bolter
Extra armour
185
One thing that I thought about was to MAYBE give shotguns to the veteran squads with flamers. Think how awesome it would be to see these guys shooting at the enemy with 3 flamers and fire 12 shots with the shotguns and then assault a unit in the next phase ^^ But, lasguns might be better and forge worlds shotguns are a little expansive to buy so the lasgun seems better :p I also try to stay away from metalfigures as it seems my skin gets irritated by it :icon_frown:
EDIT: Removed pointcosts for upgrades ^^
-
Much better! Still way too many toys though. Grenadiers is a footlsogger doctrine mostly, your vets don't even need to disembark to use their flamers ( 5 firing ports on the Chimera for the win!). If you lose Grenadiers, you'll free up 120 points. Lose extra armor on the Russ: another 15. Gives you 135 points so far. Melta bombs and Krak Grenades on the CCS: another 10. Lose the voxes on the squads in the Valks (they'll be most likely out of order range anyway): another 10. That's 155 points. Voila! You have just aquired the points for another full veteran squad with three melta guns in a Chimera, which you will need since you're awfully light on antitank right now.
I would also give the command squad some nice, juicy guns. Meltas preferably.
This would give you 4 chimeras on the ground. One holds the CCS, which can also bust tanks very well with meltas. One holds a squad of melta vets for the same job. Both can also take out other high-value targets (like Dreadnoughts, Terminators or Monsters). 2 Flamer units to clear up hordes and stuff in cover. Coupled with the firepower of the chimeras, this is pretty good.
Your Valk element looks good. If you take another Vet squad with meltas I would consider swapping places with one of the valk squads though. That would give you both a melta and plasma squad in Valks as well as on the ground.
Good luck with your IG!
:::cheers:::
Oh, another thing: don't use metal figures for your melta and plasma guys. That will cost a fortune. Instead, order some plasma and melta guns from the bitz service of your choice or from GW direct. You can use the GL arms for a very easy conversion. Just cut the GL off the hand holding it, cut off the handle of the plasma/melta gun and glue it on instead. The other hand of that set of arms holds a handle that you can just attach to the side of the new gun. Voila! Plasma/Melta vet!
-
Looks very promising!
points of critic:
Your company command. Dump the krak grenades and melta bomb and give them a melta gun.
Your valkyries (which i dont like much) are going to be moving alot so probably wont be able to shoot its heavy bolter sponsons, even though they are cool! Dump those two and use the points for meltas in your company command.
I always give my veterans shotguns if their special weapons are assault. Just so they complement each other. I rather want to assault those orks than be assaulted in the next phase!
Also!
Remember that you can't give orders to units inside chimeras. So vox casters wont matter that much in your squads.
I never give extra stuff to my chimeras. Dozer blades are expensive so only take them if you play on a terrain heavy board. I know its vital to keep your troops mobile so it might be a good addition to it!
But the stubbers. I would see them go. As i said, you have to be mobile and I dont know how it will work together with the stubbers.
Dno what you could spent the points on. I get it to be 55pts for 3 stubbers and 5 vox casters. Thats enough to get a chimera to the 3rd or 4th squad.
-
Ah Aldaris beat me to it :P
Oh and Mathi, no offense, but if you keep using alternatives it will be a hell for anybody but yourself to know what units are what.. find some good deals on ebay or swedish sites for some good 40k deals instead ;)
-
Hmm... fact is I already ordered 5 plasma guns from a site also selling the GW bitz.
Thing is I got 6 fallschirmsjaeger gun crews when I bought a pair of light field guns to use as Kannonz for my 40K orkz.
However, I figure they would be put to good use as crew for a squad of IG mortars and then it will not be problem to see what they represent.
Now, I better get a box of Cadians. Plasma grenadier vets FTW! :icon_razz:
-
See if you can find someplace that still sells the old 20-man box rather than the repackaged 10-man one. Much better value.
-
Really, it's ok to use alternatives, but if you're going to use non-40k one, it's probably best for all concerned that you stick to one range for it all. So all guardsmen would be modified fallschirmjager, for example.
-
So, I had my first game ever against Tau today. The guy wanted to test a 1850 tournament army and asked me to use my CSM again. I obliged, and just used my 2000 list I had used for the tournament last weekend, minus the two squads of summoned Demons and just 5 instead of 6 Raptors (bringing it down to 1850).
He had three Crisis teams with his commander in one of them (all with plenty of shield drones), one unit of 3 Broadsides (two shield drones as well), 3 of those skimmer transports with Fire Warriors inside, one unit of stealth suits with that melta thingy, one Hammerhead and 2 units of 10 Kroot 5 Kroot hounds each. The board was stacked for an urban fight, We played seize ground with 5 objectives and deployed pitched battle style. He won first turn.
And then I stole the initiative. That sucked hard for him.
Rushed all my stuff forward and used smoke launchers, managed to weather the initial storm of shooting pretty well thanks to the smoke and had the first close combats going by turn 2. By the end of my turn 4 the board was clean of all alien bovines. Wipeout. Ouch!
Learned: everyone in the CSM list can completely bitchslap everyone in the Tau army. Their shooting is nice, but the stuff that is actually AP3 or lower is scarce. They have plenty of ways to deal with transports, but once you get within charge range they're toast.
Oh well, it was an experience. That was the final 40k army I had never played against.
-
Tau are silly.
Anyway, with a renewed interest in 40k, I made a undivided sorcerer to be a sort of "Pal" with my Nurgle Lord (not yet made).
(http://j.imagehost.org/t/0205/sorc1.jpg) (http://j.imagehost.org/view/0205/sorc1)
(http://j.imagehost.org/t/0854/sorc2.jpg) (http://j.imagehost.org/view/0854/sorc2)
Yes, it's a wineglass (it'll look better painted, honest), a pimp cane, and a raven wearing a hat with a feather in it.
-
Cool! Looking forward to see it painted.
-
Those pictures are kind of small, and when I clicked on one, it had a rapidly flashing piece of spam on it. Not sure I'll be clicking on one of those small pictures again, cause I don't want my computer to be fried like green nurgle tomatoes.
-
I clicked on both for you GP, and they work fine for me.
-
Painted the sorc and his 3 pet obliterator bodyguards. Only pictured two as the third was more of the same. :unsure:
http://img338.imageshack.us/g/sorcandobli1.jpg/
Imageshack so GP has no need to fear. :engel:
Very hastily done these, need to be ready for this weekend!
The idea is that the 3 Obliterators sorta obey the sorcerer, and thus the Nurgle lord (I have plans for him, beeeeeeeeg plans) allied with him in part for his sorcerous power, and in part for the power of the obliterator cult.
-
Great, great work!
:eusa_clap:
-
Ta. :icon_biggrin:
He also allows a link from my Chaos Marines to a non-nurgle traitor Imperial Guard force I have planned. Russian themed (just need to check 1/35 scale with 40k models). :icon_biggrin:
I also need to see how well a 1/48 HIND will go with 1/35 BMDs and T-variousnumbers. As it's a flier I think I can get some slack with differences, and the only 1/35 HIND is sold by one company, for a bloody lot.
-
Just say no to GW novels.
Period.
Phil
-
Please elaborate, that sounds interesting.
-
I approve of PhillyT's message.
You know how meth addicts feel great when they're using meth, but when you look at them they have no teeth and look 20 years older than they really are? That's your brain, after using GW novels.
-
The novels are generally garbage. Most of the good fluff is found in the rule books or WD articles. The rare decent novel is buried beneath piles of crap as authors write what they think people want to read.
Phil
-
Hmmm ... I read the first three Heresy novels and they weren't bad. The first was the best of the three followed by the third, and then the second.
-
In my opinion, the only good novels are the Gotrek and Felix ones by William King, and most stuff for 40k by Dan Abnett (one of their few authors who can actually write worth a damn). I've tried some others, but they all were somewhere between very average to downright painful.
I find the three Eisenhorn books to be worth a hearty recommendation, and the Gaunts Ghosts series is a pleasant read too.
-
Abnett wrote the first Heresy novel, and it sucks you right in. Definitely a author I'll be returning to read again.
-
Hey guys, been toying around with some BA lists out of idle fun and curiosity.
What do you think of the following? 4 Vehicles with AV 13 front deploy turn 1 (Furiosos, regular Preds) with the Rhinos and Astoraths squad taking cover behind. Astoraths lad also benefit from FNP thanks to the adjacent Rhinos.
Everything is fast or can jump, and by turn 2-3 when the army is engaged the Baals arrive from outflank and add their firepower. Every Infantry model has very likely furious charge, FNP and in case of Astoraths squad, reroll to hit.
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Astaroth the Grim
- - - > 220
*************** 3 Elite ***************
Sanguinary Priest
- Power Weapon
- - - > 65
Sanguinary Priest
- Power Weapon
- - - > 65
Furioso Dreadnought
- Upgrade to Furioso-Scriptor
- Bloodfist & Force Weapon
- Stormbolter
- Magna-Grapple
- Additional Armor
- - - > 205
Furioso Dreadnought
- Upgrade to Furioso-Scriptor
- Bloodfist & Force Weapon
- Stormbolter
- Magna-Grapple
- Additional Armor
- - - > 205
*************** 3 Troops ***************
Assault Squad, no packs (joined by Priest)
9 Assault Marines
- 1 x Flamer
- 1 x Powerfist on the Sarge
+ - Rhino
- Dozerblade
- - - > 222
Assault Squad, no packs (joined by Priest)
9 Assault Marines
- 1 x Flamer
- 1 x Powerfist on the Sarge
+ - Rhino
- Dozerblade
- - - > 222
Assault Marines, joined by Astorath
10 Assault Marines
- 2 x Melter
- Jump Packs
- 1 x Powerfist on the Sarge
- - - > 235
*************** 2 Fast Attack ***************
Baal-Pradator
- Sync Assault Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons
- - - > 145
Baal-Pradator
- Sync Assault Cannon
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons
- - - > 145
*************** 2 Heavy Support ***************
Predator
- Autocannon
- Lascannon Sponsons
- - - > 135
Predator
- Autocannon
- Lascannon Sponsons
- - - > 135
Blood Angels : 1999
-
Dan Abnett is a writer. Most of the crowd that writes for GW are just pen-wielders...
And Abnetts books are enjoyed also by people who are otherwise not into GW stuff at all. I know one fellow who is a specialist on SF litterature and who has a rather picky taste. He loves Abnett and so so I. I have seen some web videos with him answering questions and generally talking about his books, the character, about how they developed etc...
Now that the third Gaunt Omnibus has hit the shelves, "The lost", I have my sight set upon it!
I have also read James Swallows "Faith and fire", and it was so and so. But what really destroyed it was that it was so damn obvious the writer must have been ordered to mention as many of the Sisters of Battles kit, vehicles and the Emperor knows what to push sell the stuff. There were some really enjoyable passages but overall the feeling was destroyed by the ballant commerical stuff put inside.
I believe GW simply allows Abnett more freedom, maybe because they realize he can very well make it without them!
As I have heard much good about William King, I am considering to pick him up.
Also, I feel inclined to by the Caiphan Cain Omnibus. After all, what can be more hillarious than a cowardly commisar!
-
Hmm cool list aldaris!
I would however swap one of the assault marines in Rhino with a unit of death company in rhino. They are better in combat and then you can spare a priest and get some other stuff in for the death company to compensate for their higher cost.
And then i dont think you have enough units with red thirst, so maybe Astorath should be kicked out and put in a librarian or some other instead.
-
Yeah, thought so too. Unfortunately. Because Astorath is awesome. Another variant would be to replace him with a librarian (Epistolary of course), leave out one of the Furiosos as well and add an Honor Guard for the Librarian in a Razorback. They could have the Chapter Banner, 2 Infernus Pistols, 2 Powerswords and 2 Plasma Guns. And that squad already contains an unpickable priest... That would be some serious shooting (propably enough to take out a monster in one round) and be pretty nasty on the charge. With the bonuses from Priest and Banner we're looking at:
10 PW attacks at S5, 5 S10 PW attacks from the Librarian and 13 regular S5 attacks from the plasma troopers and priest. That's some hefty carnage. Oh, and another D3 extra attacks for the Librarian due to Might of Heroes.
-
Hmm sounds nice! But i prefer jump packs for my guys ;)
But why not plasma pistols instead of guns?
-
One word: rapid fire. If I face off against a high initiative monstrous creature like the Tyranids have (that has about 4-6 wounds) or something like TH/SS Terminators I need some volume of fire to be able to take it out/make a dent. The Libby has a combimelta, then the two infernus pistols plus rapid fire plasma gives me 7 shots and thus a decent chance of flattening it in one go (or at least dropping one or two Termies before I charge).
The drawback is, of course, rapid fire. If I use my plasma guns I won't be able to charge, which would be a shame for such a brutal cc squad. I could replace the plasma guns with infernus pistols as well, which would reduce the squads overall range, but allow me to charge and give the wielders an extra attack each.
Or plain melta guns which are cheaper, have greater range but are single shot and don't give an extra attack.
Not quite sure which way to go yet.
-
Excactly, rapid fire.
I would specialise them. Either make them combaty with pistols or drop the powerswords and give them all plasma guns.
Plasma and feel no pain is awesome. And remember that the libby doesnt have to join the squad so you have a feel no pain devastator squad.
-
The rapid fire forces you to make some tough choices, yes.
I would ditto McKnight unless you want a unit that can handle very different situations. If you want to assaults, you should stick with pistols, weapons for hand to hand and assault firearms.
I believe IG is one of the armies that most benefits from the rapid fire weapons, since they relly on firepower to paste their opposition.
As I am making a footslogger IG army, and will face Marines, Eldars and IG that are getting increasingly mechanised with heavy armour support, in the shape of both tanks and Terminators, plasmaguns are gold. Bought the bitz pack with 5 of them, so now I have six in total. :icon_mrgreen:
I understand the desire for melta in this edition, but hey, thereīs nothing like the smell of burning plasma in the morning! :icon_razz:
-
The clown car is that speeder with all the scouts hanging out of it. It's annoying that blood angels can't have one. Or alternately that generic space wombats can't have a flamer-predator.
Still, I quite like the way the rocket-launcher-speeder looks. So maybe that would do instead.
-
I read one of the William King "novels", I think it was called Trollslayer, possibly one after that, not sure, but an early one.
It was absolutely awful. Trash. And he's supposed to be one of the better ones?
Dan Abnett though, I will admit I haven't read so can't judge.
-
Do it and judge later, Sig. I will remember yout warning about William King.
-
Trollslayer is a collection of short stories. It's a bit hard to have character development in 20 pages..
They get better. Not super better but not absolute balls.
-
Dan Abnett though, I will admit I haven't read so can't judge.
I recommend "Horus Rising". Its the first in the Horus Heresy and it can draw a person in fairly well. I'll be picking up more of his books eventually.
-
Fair call, the Gaunt's Ghosts ideas don't do anything for me, but the Heresy is GW's better bit of fluff so that might be worth a look. Cheers.
-
Here's fair warning ... the first book was so good that it actually had me picking up the second book in the series by Graham. The second book, "False Gods", was better than the last book I tried to read by Graham and haven't finished yet, but it wasn't as good as the first book in the series. However, it pays to read through the secound, and then read the third book by a guy named Ben Counter. The third book, "A Galaxy in Flames", wasn't as quite as good as the first, yet it starts to flesh out some of the other eventual CSM chapters and at the same time was a decent read anyway.
-
Yesterday, I succumbed into buying a bunch of the new blood angels and right now, im sitting in my chair and putting together my sanguinary guard. I must say that they are some beatyful models! They dont bring alot of extra bits like the death company unfortunately, but thats okay! The wings can be a pain to fit on though, since there will be a jump pack and shoulder pads in the way so be careful when putting them together!
Now back to the glueing!
-
I love those kinds of posts McKnight. :::cheers:::
- - - - - -
By the way, I picked up "The Ultra Marines Omnibus," primarily because I got it on sale at 50% off when a books tore was closing its doors (lovely economy as it is, I suspect). This is a series of three novels that Graham McNeill. There's also a short story at the front thta was written after the three novels.
The short story was decent, but I'm really struggling with the first novel, "Nightbringer". The preface was interesting, and makes em wonder hoe he'll tie it into the rest of the story. However, sometimes the author tells the reader things they can figure out for themselves and uses adjectives in spots where they aren't needed. Not sure why this kind of thing bothers me, yet it seems like he's treating the reader as being stupid. I'm sure its unintentional, but it really slows the reading process down when I notice this. Maybe I just need to get further into the story to enjoy it more, but we'll see because I've struggled with this author when reading "Sigmar's Heirs" (still haven't finished it), and even with the Heresy Series book called "False Gods" (although this latter was the best I've read from him at this point).
-
GP: I still recommend going for the Eisenhorn omnibus. Easily the best novel set in the 40K universe.
-
Eisenhorn and Ravensomething are both great, Grey Knights Omnibus (by Ben Counter) is also decent.
I've heard that the Commissar Cain series is good, but haven't read it myself.
In general I find 40k novels to be a step above Fantasy ones.
-
Eisenhorn is by Abnett, correct?
What about "Ravensomething"? (And it could help to have the correct name. :icon_wink: )
Wouldn't be surprised about the "Grey Knight Omnibus" since Counter wrote the third Heresy book, too, and it was decently good.
And who writes the "Commissar Cain" novels, and if someone knows a title on the first on this could be helpful, too?
-
However, sometimes the author tells the reader things they can figure out for themselves and uses adjectives in spots where they aren't needed. Not sure why this kind of thing bothers me, yet it seems like he's treating the reader as being stupid. I'm sure its unintentional, but it really slows the reading process down when I notice this.
I'm with you on that - needless adjectives and explanations are the quickest way to spot a bad writer. They don't know how to convey scenes without it... It generally bothers me so much I can't even read books that would otherwise be at least entertaining. I read the first 2 Ultramarines novels in the omnibus, the 2nd one was better than the 1st (at least I think, it's been a while) but still not good enough to make me feel like reading the 3rd one.
Abnett is indeed the best 40k writer (he understands how to pace an action story and comes up with some great settings and moods) and Eisenhorn is his best. Revenor is pretty decent. Sandy Mitchel, who writes Ciaphas Cain, commits the grievances mentioned above, but his books really are funny so I'd still recommend it for something light even by Black Library standards. Souldrinker books have stupid characters but the setting is very dark and has a real 40k feel to it. That's all I've read. Just go for the omnibuses, they are very cheap.
I don't know why anybody would read the WHF books, the setting isn't that different than any other fantasy book except the writing will be even worse, I'd imagine...
-
Eisenhorn is by Abnett, correct?
What about "Ravensomething"? (And it could help to have the correct name. :icon_wink: )
Yes, Eisenhorn is from Abnett. So is the Ravenor series, which is also good. But not as good as Eisenhorn. That one really is the best.
The Ciaphas Cain novels are by Sandy Mitchell as far as I know, and I believe the first one is called For the Emperor. They were fairly nice mainly because they're shameless knockoffs of the Flashman series (which has nothing to do with 40K, but is set in the 19th century and features a cowardly British Officer who always manages to depict himself as a hero. Hilarious).
-
Iīve only read one Fantasy book and that was Gileads blood. It was decent, and one of the few with elves as the main characters. I guess it was decent because Dan Abnett was one of the writers.
Like Ekman wisely said, go for the Omnibuses. I am going to get the third Gaunts Ghost omnibus when I get some cash. I can really recommend the omnibuses, as you get Dan Abnetts own comments and discussion on how the books developed. For a guard player they are also an exellent inspiration with so many different kinds of battlefields, from trenches to cities, airborne operations and mechanized warfare. And the characters...
-
Hehe what was so good about my comment GP? :P
Anyways, i've kitbashed a chaplain out of a death company and almost put all my stuff together.
The rest of the day might go to reading, but maybe i will take a break and spray the models and let the painting begin tomorrow!
My current book that im reading is Grey knights, Its fairly okay so far. I love grey knights so i keep a positive attitude towards it.
-
I'm with you on that - needless adjectives and explanations are the quickest way to spot a bad writer. They don't know how to convey scenes without it... It generally bothers me so much I can't even read books that would otherwise be at least entertaining. I read the first 2 Ultramarines novels in the omnibus, the 2nd one was better than the 1st (at least I think, it's been a while) but still not good enough to make me feel like reading the 3rd one.
I'll try to get through the first, so I can get to the second. It would seem to make sense that an editor of some kind would point these kinds of things out, yet I sometimes wonder if anyone reads these things before they go to print. Nowadays I suspect the writing gets put through a commputer fro spelling errors, maybe, buts thats probably about it.
Abnett is indeed the best 40k writer (he understands how to pace an action story and comes up with some great settings and moods) and Eisenhorn is his best. Revenor is pretty decent. Sandy Mitchel, who writes Ciaphas Cain, commits the grievances mentioned above, but his books really are funny so I'd still recommend it for something light even by Black Library standards. Souldrinker books have stupid characters but the setting is very dark and has a real 40k feel to it. That's all I've read. Just go for the omnibuses, they are very cheap.
What armies are the Eisenhorn, Revenor, and Souldrinker series about?
Humor might make the Cain books worth reading, but I'm leary when I hear that they ahve the same issues.
I don't know why anybody would read the WHF books, the setting isn't that different than any other fantasy book except the writing will be even worse, I'd imagine...
I read "Murders in Marienburg, and although I liked certain things about it, I didn't like others. I've tried reading "Sigmars Heirs", and will still try to finish it, yet its written by the same guy who wrote the Ultramarines Omnibus. I picked up C.L. Werner's Witch Hunter omnibus, because I heard it was good and because I got it on a store closing sale.
-
The Ciaphas Cain novels are by Sandy Mitchell as far as I know, and I believe the first one is called For the Emperor. They were fairly nice mainly because they're shameless knockoffs of the Flashman series (which has nothing to do with 40K, but is set in the 19th century and features a cowardly British Officer who always manages to depict himself as a hero. Hilarious).
Ah ... well perhaps I'll give it a go at some point.
-
Eisenhorn and Ravenor are about the Inquisition. So no army. Probably why they are so good. They give insight into the life of more ordinary imperial citizens. Stuff that isn't always "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!"
-
Hehe what was so good about my comment GP? :P
Describing a hobby project that's in process while at the same time posting on the site. :::cheers:::
-
As t12735198479 already stated, the "Eisenhorn" books are about Imperial Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn and his retinue. The three books follow him through a timespan of more than 100 years. The stories are very good, and Abnett manages to capture the feeling of actually living in this setting (as opposed to just fighting in it) extremely well.
A friend of mine who knows nothing about 40K enjoyed it a lot, which is always a good indicator in my opinon.
Gideon Ravenor appears in those books as Eisenhorns young interrogator, and gets his own spinoff series "Ravenor" later on. Also very good, but in my opinion not quite as good as the books about his old mentor.
-
Sorry Aldaris, I recall you mentionning that now, and didn't when I posted last. :icon_redface: My mistake not T12's.
-
I read "Murders in Marienburg
That is such a terrible book! Unimaginative, awkwardly written, and boring. 'Beasts in Velvet' is a much better warhammer murder mystery book.
-
I need someones (probably Aldaris') opinion on Griffons.
I'm thinking an army of BMD/Ps. So far it's 3 Griffons and 4 Chimeras. :engel:
Also the Chimeras will be armed with Heavy Bolters and Autocannons (yes, they bloody will).
Still a shock after my games of 1949 that 40k heavy machineguns roll 3 dice. In 1949 the LMG/HMG's roll 6-8 dice. :-D
-
Griffons seem to be one of the best artillery options the IG have. Cheap and cheerful. I am considering using one HS slot for a group of 2-3 as well. That's a lot of large templates for comparatively very few points.
Personally I haven't used them yet, but they sure look good on paper, and I hear good things too.
-
ah, excellent. I shall have to get lots. The plan is to purchase BMD/P 3's, with forward mounted turrets, carve a square compartment and put a mortar in. The turret will stay, and have the heavy bolter mounted in it.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/bmd-3-line.gif
Side view of the vehicle. Thinking of making it like the basilisk with a fully open rear area.
-
That fits, since the Griffon is an open topped vehicle. Be sure to post some pics!
-
Making this lot is how I plan to procrastinate through my exams in May. :icon_cry:
Ah, I cannot wait till next week to start buying the needed components! So far it's at 9 Heavy Weapons teams, and 7-9 BMD/Ps.
Then in a month or so I shall get tanks.
Edit: I have finally worked out what I'm after. It's the BMD-1P. The BMD seems to be the airborne version of the BMP, and also has it's turret forward. That or the BMP 3, which is the normal version and thus larger. But also more expensive!
-
The BMD is indeed the airdroped version. When I did my conscription service in 1993-1994, all we ever fought in our exercises were those russian airborne mechanized battalions! Shame we never get to practice against the bucketload of cheap former East germany IFV:s the swedish army bought from the shelf around then, would have been really cool.
-
The painting started yesterday and my Sanguinary guard have gotten their wings painted! Now for the gold!
Im going for a base coat of tin bitz and then brazen brass with some highlights of my valejo paint, shining gold.
I also tried with tin bitz as base and then just paint shining gold on him.. Im undecided which method to use.
-
I was on the very verge of getting into this four generals thing and doing Blood Angels... but I have decided to settle for a single squad of 5 Assault Marines for now to try out some color schemes and concentrate on my Skaven otherwise.
*sigh*
Still not a single game played with them, but about 80 figures painted. This is outrageous. For me at least.
-
Wuss. By now you should've been killed by an aspiring claw leader, who would then have taken your horde to personal glory.
-
Just no Fantasy opponents at the moment. If this trend continues this army will have its baptism of fire at the 'Bash...
-
That would be somewhat fitting, would it not?
-
I dno about griffons ... they dont have a good enough strenght and ap for my liking. I want my artillery to smash everything it hits. At the cost of the griffon accuracy of course.
Back to the blood angels. I've taken Aldaris' way of thinking to account. At least i think it was Aldaris who mentioned the honour guard and their possibilities.
But here is a modified list of mine that i will try. I'll just be proxying the honour guard with my sanguinary guard for now.
1500 pts blood angels
Hq
Librian 100 150
episotlary +50
Honour guard 115 265
Blood champ +20
chapter banner +30
3 power weapons +45
razor back +55
elite:
Furioso Dreadnought 125
Blood talons
troops:
6 death company 120 200
2 power weapons +30
rhino 50
10 assault marines 235
- powerfist
- 2 meltas
10 assault marines 235
- powerfist
- 2 meltas
Fast
baal predator+ heavy bolter 145
baal predator+ heavy bolter 145
-
Looks good and nasty. The only thing I would consider is giving a pod to the Furioso and changing the DC Rhino into a Razorback. That could be accomplished by just taking a regular Librarian over an Epistolary. Otherwise, I like it.
Regarding Griffons: they arent supposed to be flashy. But they'll still wound most units on a 2, are barrage, very accurate and dirt cheap. Excellent choice in my opinion.
-
Hmm i dont really want to loose the epistolary upgrade since i like have the choice of giving unleash rage to his honour guard and D3 attacks to himself or the blood champion. Or to instant kill something instead.
I also thought of changing the Rhino into a razorback but dont have 5 points. The furioso is meant to be cheap and draw fire away from my transports. Maybe a DC dread is better for this as it is more scary.
Hmm but heavy slots are in demand in the guard army :P
-
Look at it this way: You can either have an extra D3 attacks in a unit that already dishes out 25 or so powerweapon attacks at S5 or 10, or you can have an extra Heavy Bolter and the ability to melta something turn 1 and assault on turn 2 instead of running for half the game. But it is your choice of course.
And a DC Dreadnought is not more scary than a Furioso, not by a long way. That extpoint of front armor, the high WS and the ability to actually choose your combats instead of blindly running for the closest one make one hell of a difference.
-
You make good sense :P
Hmm but a DC dread ignores shaken and stunned, as an ekstra attack and higher initiative on charge. And an extra attack :o
I always have difficulties choosing between the two.
-
I didn't mean DC Dreads aren't good. They look very good indeed, but have a serious drawback. That's why I would use them for target overload with multiple Dreadnoughts, not dedicated Dread duties like taking out important armor or tying stuff up in cc. Those pretty much require that you'll be able to control the thing.
-
Hehe yes but it worked very nice the only time i used it. I think its best to send it up on one of the flanks.
Do you think the magna grapple has an effect on the dread's melta? Say if the grapple pulls the vehicle within 6" and then fires the melta, it gets the bonus. Or do you think that the weapons are fired at the same time?
-
To be honest, Blood Angels are wusses compared to Angry Marines.
This is one of the reasons why:
(http://i.imagehost.org/0131/angrinatorr.jpg) <- Angry Marine Transport
-
Amen to that, MrDwhitey! Amen to that! :icon_mrgreen:
-
God that is awesome!
Phil
-
The one with the chainsword is probably all like: "shoot me closer, i want to hit them with my sword!"
-
MrDWhitey ... got it correct this time ... did you make that?
-
It's called an "Angrinator", if I am not mistaken.
And it shoots squads of Angry Marines!
-
Of course I didn't make it. It's actually good. Everything I make is awful.
And yes Taureus, that is it's name. How awesome can it get?
All I want now is someone to convert Commissar Fuklaw and his squad of Angry Marines ripping apart a Thunderhawk and grabbing onto the engines to get to the enemy faster.
-
Oiii! I have a tinkerday today, and brought out some convertion project into the spring sunlight for work!
First, my reworked Boomraida! My gretchin oilers have amussed themselves with this Dark eldar raider and I think they might have something going. I will have to add a special rule about it making a D6 recoil move everytime the boomgun fires.
The boomgun is a 1/35 105mm feldhaubitze from a Wespe self-propelled artillery vehicle.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto304.jpg)
Then, I finally put the knife to the M8 Greyhound that was finished and painted when I got it. However, I figured out it would make a neat "count as" Devil Dog for my Imperial guards.
However, it is referred to as a Death Dog.
The heavy bolter comes is a bitz from a gun servitor and the Melta cannon is a cut down multimelta from a Sisters of Battle Immolator kit. These multis are so beffy they work smashingly as a substitute Melta cannon.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto306.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto305.jpg)
-
I love the boom raider! :P
-
The boom raider does amuse me. :mrgreen:
I just had my first two games of 40k using a fully painted force!
Daemon Prince, Sorc, 3 squads of 7 plaguemarines in rhinos, 2 vindicators and 9 lesser demons utterly annihilated a Eldar force twice, with little losses. I actually felt bad after those two games.
I tried the Lash of Submission for the first time also, on the sorcerer. It's insanely good, I may drop it altogether.
-
Yeah, use something Nurgly instead. But the Nurgle spells are not very good... how about Wind of Chaos? Or that hilarious one that turns enemies into spawns?
-
Put wheels on the boom thingy. The orcs wouldn't be able to fix it properly!
-
Yeah, use something Nurgly instead. But the Nurgle spells are not very good... how about Wind of Chaos? Or that hilarious one that turns enemies into spawns?
The sorcerer is meant to be undivided, so I pretty much use any power I want on him at the moment.
I do really like Nurgles rot, but it depends on the army I face.
My sorcerer failed me in my second game. Charged the enemy Farseer, missed with all attacks, and I hadn't cast with him so I could use the Force Weapon power. :dry:
The Daemon Prince in game one obliterated those Wraith Guard things, was very nice. In game two he kinda floated around my deployment being chased by 3 vypers, until he attacked them and managed to ... rip the weapons off one, and then get shot dead.
What do I do against Wraithlords I wonder? That thing scared me. In the end I had to throw two plague marine squads at it with power fist champions spending 3 turns clubbing it's legs. It in turn also failed to hit me most turns. Embarassing. Are powerfists the main thing to deal with them? In the end I had to rely on him missing his attacks with it, and with it's reroll, I was -very- lucky he missed a lot.
I can't lascannon spam it to death, as the only way I can do that is with Obliterators, and I refuse to go all out with them. Ah well, it was dealt with, just not in a timely fashion.
It is a very satisfying feeling getting a Hit on the scatter dice with a Vindicator on a squad of Wraithguard.
-
Wraithlords? A breeze. Only three HP on the bugger, although that T8 can be a bummer. I use mass special weapons fire, specifically: plasma with a bit of melta thrown in for good measure. The havoc squad with plasma guns brings 'em down real quick. It is a walker, so it's not very fast. A mounted up army is able to concentrate force on them no sweat.
-
I think it's 4 wounds actually. I could be wrong.
I have a tough time with my friends 3 Wraithlord list, it's pretty nasty.
-
Who knows Mogsie, I might add some wheels to the raida in time.
-
Give it wheels, more orky.
However many wounds they have, I think I overfelt the threat of it. All I knew was that it was hard to kill, in the end it didn't really do much other than tie up a squad or two of plaguemarines, and the rest of my army had killed everything else he had (the next game I just ignored it, it was in a corner far away from my army).
Well, ordering my Russian BMD filled force is on hold till next week now, I need to buy some Germans first for non-40k use. :biggriin:
I will hopefully however buy a Cadian Command Set and practice the camo painting I intend to use on my force. It's probably going to end up being yet another army of Peadot (I've now done Summer, Autumn, and Winter peadot camo on various german troopers), but with Urban colours. Replicating
(http://i.imagehost.org/0588/russian.jpg)
seems like less fun than doing Peadot again.
-
Hello 40k'rs, have a look at this.
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=197114 (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=197114)
The guy sculpted and painted this dreadnought guy, painted pictures on page 2.
-
That's fantastic. I hope he wins, with the effort he put into that. Not much else to say really.
-
Crap that is so awesome! :icon_eek:
-
I have a question about the Kill team scenario from the Battle missions book.
Its regarding the size of table.
In the book it says, quote: "Kill team is ideally played on a table that is three or four foot square."
Now. Some of my friends are arguing that this means 3x3 / 4x4 feet, with the argument that its mentioned as a square, not quadratic?
Now...I, being the one studying English, argued that it was ment as a 1.5x1.5 / 2x2 feet square (quadratic). But the meaning is hard to interpret through this wording.
My arguments. Its only 200pts against 200pts. And the normal size of table for 1500pts is 4'x6' so a 4x4 square would be absurdly big.
Any help from you guys would be appreciated :)
-
3x3 or 4x4.
-
I think your friends are right. 1.5-2 ft is a bit on the small side. I would go with the 3*3, that actually has some room and allows for some tactics. Consider Mordheim.
-
Hmm well we'll try that next time then :P... then snipers actually might be worth trying out :P
-
I just got to get some money free for that Battle mission book, I just got to! :icon_razz:
-
Don't know if this has been posted before, or if folks have seen these already, but ...
These were just released from Wargames Factory:
http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRet...e.aspx?ID=32119 (http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRetrieve.aspx?ID=32119)
Almost enough to make me want to start IG.
-
Damn, forgot about them.
Many will be purchased (well, I only need 45).
Just saw the sprue pictures. HOW MANY EXTRAS? Gorgeous stuff.
They will serve Chaos well....
-
Don't know if this has been posted before, or if folks have seen these already, but ...
These were just released from Wargames Factory:
http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRet...e.aspx?ID=32119 (http://wargamesfactory.com/AnnouncementRetrieve.aspx?ID=32119)
Almost enough to make me want to start IG.
Being an IG player, I can't say that those are anything that I would want to use in my army.
-
Neither would I, but they would make great traitor Guard in my opinon, like the Blood Pact.
-
I feel the same way. They are nice, but its not really the real deal :P
-
Obviously, these figures would give a different flavor/theme to an Imperial Guard Army.
I've heard some folks interested in IG with great coats, and this could certainly fit the bill.
Heard they're planning on making heavy weapons teams and command sprues, too.
There are now pictures of the sprue up on the company's site accessible via that link I provided above.
And here's a review of the sprue ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU)
Could perhaps be ok to use these for mechanicus IG, Steel Legion, traitor guard, or someother creative and imaginary unit.
-
If the scale/proportions look about right then you could mix and match certain parts with IG stuff to make it a little better, or more like normal IG. If nothing else just use the greatcoat body and not the rest. As it is I don't think they're particularly amazing but the price is about right.
Good traitor guard indeed, especially with the cthulhu head on there
Edit: I skimmed through that video GP, I was a bit on the fence about how they looked prior but at 15:30 they show a small squad of them assembled and put together and I must say they look pretty good. And they do appear to be the same size as guardsmen, seen at around 21:00
-
Just got 3 BMD's to make into Mortar carriers (griffons). Oh god, each track is individual Aldaris, I hate you so much. I've got another 5 to order for my troops. :dry:
They're nice and big too :-D
-
ekman ... yep, the fact that the GW stuff and their stuff seems to work nicely together, provides plenty of opportunity for creativity amd conversions.
-
Just got 3 BMD's to make into Mortar carriers (griffons). Oh god, each track is individual Aldaris, I hate you so much. I've got another 5 to order for my troops. :dry:
My pleasure! Have fun. I am drudging through painting slaves right now...
-
Just got 3 BMD's to make into Mortar carriers (griffons). Oh god, each track is individual Aldaris, I hate you so much. I've got another 5 to order for my troops. :dry:
My pleasure! Have fun. I am drudging through painting slaves right now...
I'm less looking forward to building the 2 HIND Gunships. They're each over 14 inches long, and extremely detailed.
-
Obviously, these figures would give a different flavor/theme to an Imperial Guard Army.
I've heard some folks interested in IG with great coats, and this could certainly fit the bill.
Heard they're planning on making heavy weapons teams and command sprues, too.
There are now pictures of the sprue up on the company's site accessible via that link I provided above.
And here's a review of the sprue ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McSCM9GkQsU)
Could perhaps be ok to use these for mechanicus IG, Steel Legion, traitor guard, or someother creative and imaginary unit.
Whatever suits your fancy.
You could just as easily buy the greatcoat bodies that GW does make from bitz suppliers if you are that hardpressed for a whole army of them.
And not waste money buying an entire sprue of mis-sized (possibly, since 28mm =/= 28mm heroic) accessories.
-
Depends on what you mean. And I'm not sure I understand.
Anyway, Ekman is right on with what he saw in the video. The Wargames Factory shock troops fit along side GW IG quite nicely as shown in the video. Even along side FW's resin minis, yet not surprisingly less detailed, they fit size wise.
However, it really is all in what a person is looking for. :::cheers:::
I'll save the pricing for the more specific thread, since this is the 40K thread ...
:icon_arrow: www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=33362.0 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=33362.0)
-
Cool looking dudes! Perfect for Blood pacters!
I am sticking with Cadians for my core platoon, but so far my three vet squad are all different, as if attached from other units.
One are all Tanith first and only minis, alongside the Steel legions my favourite IG sculpts. The second are made from Catachans, with some Cadian heads mixed in.-The third are Cadians but with the closed helmet heads, or with attached re-breathers, to give them a grenadier feel. :icon_mrgreen:
But Cadians fits best for my plan to make a platoon inspired by my own Homeguard/National Protection Forces platoon. We got the most awesome callsigns within our Company by the way, Delta X-ray. Usually shortened to Delta. :icon_razz:
-
Mathi ... That is a great idea, I like the idea of having a mixed IG army. Having different squads of infantry working together to battle the enemies of mankind.
:icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
Big Bad Leroy Brown taking Hanz and Franz for a walk (I didn't come up with Big Bad Leroy Brown)
(http://j.imagehost.org/0879/hff1.jpg)
(http://j.imagehost.org/0275/hff2.jpg)
They're not done yet, need to do all the detail work.
-
Looking good! I'm going to use dual defilers in my Word Bearers army, I've got one regular defiler and I'll buy a Soul Grinder to use as the second. I've got some jewelery chain, and I'm going to model it so that the chain is connected from its legs to its torso, so that every time it moves it rips at the skin making it angrier, the WB treat daemons as slaves after all.
-
Big Bad Leroy Brown taking Hanz and Franz for a walk (I didn't come up with Big Bad Leroy Brown)
They're not done yet, need to do all the detail work.
Those are going to be real nice when they're finished! And I like the "standing up" conversion. Looks kinda like a Battlemech now. A very spiky one.
-
Uh thats nice! :P
You must deploy them like that :P
-
Now there's a chaotic 40K idea!
:::cheers:::
-
Uh thats nice! :P
You must deploy them like that :P
I'm going to feed you to Hanz.
Now there's a chaotic 40K idea!
You're the only person I can imagine being capable of saying that deadpan, and totally serious.
-
I bought the Battle mission book on friday! Man is it filled with goodness! And yesterday my Homeguard/National protection forces platoon had a day at the firing ranges and I announced I was going to make a 40K version of the imfamous Delta X-ray platoon for 40K! :icon_razz:
My platoon mates said I was crazy, but that it was nothing new to them. :icon_mrgreen:
-
Well, BBLB and H&F got to play tonight. They didn't really do too much, combined they took down a thousand sons squad, one of them charged a chaos lord and got melta bombed (we realised after he needed a six to hit, so we redid it, the defiler killed the lord).
Really, my plaguemarines gunned his men down, my prince spent 3 turns being tarpitted by a thousand sons squad, and then his terminators came down.
And all died in one go to the prince and a Defiler. Tabled the guy, looked at the time, less than an hour had gone by. I felt bloody bad then.
-
Why? It's not like 3 Defilers and a single Prince constitute a cheese-fest.
-
The defilers didn't even do much! :unsure:
One immobilised his Lascannon dread, whereupon two empty rhinos parked around it and drove around it every turn like circling sharks to block it's LoS :icon_twisted: , one spent the game on it's back like a dead spider after the meltabomb incident, and the other killed 1 thousand son and 2 terminators (not including all 3 needing to fire on a thousand sons squad, and not even killing them all).
I guess it was due to both of us being Chaos, we had small armies. By the time my men disembarked, his AP3 Tksons were either in combat or about to be shot, his plaguemarines managed to miss mine, and his tag team of a lord and a daemonprince got bogged down by a daemon unit I dropped from a rhino beacon as my troops zoomed past him.
Then his terminators dropped down once all his stuff were dead, and got combo charged by the prince and a defiler. The prince neatly cut down 2, then the other 3 almost cut him down. The defiler fluffed, and then next turn the prince finished them.
Next week I fight a dual monolith necron army! :mrgreen: Thinking the usual setup, with heavies going to be two vindicators and 3 oblits. Gonna have to drop the sorc for those oblits me thinks. Mmmm.
Also, does anyone know what ignores We'll Be Back? I lost my necron codex in the great purge of 2008 (my room was redone).
-
Also, does anyone know what ignores We'll Be Back? I lost my necron codex in the great purge of 2008 (my room was redone).
Power weapons/fists and any weapons that are double their toughness (so S8+)
-
More specifically, any close combat weapon that ignores their armor save.
-
More specifically, any close combat weapon that ignores their armor save.
Yes, but I can't think of anything else CSM have access to besides those...They might have force weapons (I don't play CSM, so I can't say).
Other possibilities are Rending CC attacks. Again, I don't know if there are any of these in the CSM book.
-
I would be immensely surprised if Sorcs couldn't get Force Weapons, and while I remember 'Zerkers having some sort of special CC weapon, I think that's me mixing up their old book with the newer one.
-
More specifically, any close combat weapon that ignores their armor save.
Yes, but I can't think of anything else CSM have access to besides those...They might have force weapons (I don't play CSM, so I can't say).
Other possibilities are Rending CC attacks. Again, I don't know if there are any of these in the CSM book.
They have access to both. And Plasma/Melta, Las- and Battlecannons. So plenty really.
-
Plasma cannon's wouldn't work, it's only close combat weapons that ignore armor saves or any weapon that's more than double their T.
-
Plasma cannon's wouldn't work, it's only close combat weapons that ignore armor saves or any weapon that's more than double their T.
Ah, so not equivalent to the stuff that cancels Feel no Pain. Good to know, because that's the way it was explained to me once.
-
Yeah, it's a bit different. It's really a very nice rule, just complicated.
For example, you leave the 'crons on the field no matter what, you don't remove them after one turn or after they've moved out of the resurrection range of another squad.
Most people will remove them after one turn (even if they don't fail their "We'll Be Back" roll), or if they're out of range of a unit that can revive them.
-
I would not be surprised if they replace the rule with Feel No Pain in December when the new book comes out. The current rule is okay, but it needs a little help.
Phil
-
Battle cannons are nice against necrons! :D
-
I would not be surprised if they replace the rule with Feel No Pain in December when the new book comes out. The current rule is okay, but it needs a little help.
Phil
I've heard FNP and Relentless for a while, from a variety of sources.
-
I'm thinking of taking the defilers now, and ignoring the monoliths. Forcing him to phase out. :mrgreen:
He's thinking of taking a C'tan too... Will add that to the list of things to ignore and go for phase out.
Also thinking of trying some dreaded "6 power weapon with rerolls to wound on the charge attacks" terminators...
-
Yeah, it's a bit different. It's really a very nice rule, just complicated.
For example, you leave the 'crons on the field no matter what, you don't remove them after one turn or after they've moved out of the resurrection range of another squad.
Most people will remove them after one turn (even if they don't fail their "We'll Be Back" roll), or if they're out of range of a unit that can revive them.
If there isn't a unit in range to resurrect them the following turn, they are removed.
They don't just rock out until you can move into range to bring them back...
-
There's some trick to the wording that's important. I'll ask the local player again.
-
True, but if there is a monolith within 24" they can just beam to that and roll their get back up anyway.
Also, I would go the opposite direction Dwhitey. Drop vehicles and mob marines. Use obliterators or havok squads on the monoliths. Necrons will murder vehicles if you aren't dropping piles of them.
Phil
-
True, but if there is a monolith within 24" they can just beam to that and roll their get back up anyway.
Also, I would go the opposite direction Dwhitey. Drop vehicles and mob marines. Use obliterators or havok squads on the monoliths. Necrons will murder vehicles if you aren't dropping piles of them.
Phil
I usually drop 6+ vehicles (minimum of 3 transports, rest artillery) a game. I personally think going after the monoliths will be a waste, especially if I'm killing his necron troopers with weapons that ignore We'll be Back.
That's just how I personally feel about it. That and I only have 3 painted obliterators, and no havocs. :-D
My painted list (hopefully) by the game will be:
4 Squads of 7 plaguemarines with double plasma, each squad with a rhino one squad left to do, all rhinos done
10 Raptors with the mark of nurgle, champ with lightning claws needs details and basing
5 terminators with lightning claws ("The Unadorned", plain as hell looking, but the two with flesh showing are heavily mutated, so on the outside they look normal, on the inside, chaotic) needs starting
8 Khorne Berzerkers details and basing
5 Chosen with all plasma/melta (got a Dark Angels veteran squad, using them as a sacrificial "Fallen Angels" group, as I hate emo DA :engel: ) needs starting
3 Defilers done
2 Vindicators done
3 Obliterators done
1 Land Raider done
Daemon Prince done
Sorcerer done
When it comes to 40k, I'm trying desperately (and so far succeeding) in fielding only painted forces.
-
Our gaming club is having a 1750pts tournament the first weekend in july and I have already started making lists.
Im going to play blood angels, I think... maybe Imperial guard, but dno.
Anyways heres my list, sorry for the AB format:
1 Mephiston, Lord of Death (HQ) @ 250 Pts
#Artificer Armour; #Psychic Hood; #The Sanguine Sword; #Unleash Rage;
#Wings of Sanguinius; Force Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Frag Grenades; Krak
Grenades; Psyker (3)
5 Sanguinary Guard (Elites) 250 Pts
#Chapter Banner; Glaive Encarmine (x5); Angelus Boltgun (x3); Infernus
Pistol (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Packs
1 Sanguinary Priest (Elites) 75 Pts
Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak
Grenades; Blood Chalice
1 Furioso Librarian (Elites) 175 Pts
Wings of Sanguinius; Might of Heroes;
10 Assault marines (Troops) 235 Pts
2 meltaguns, sergeant with powerfist
10 Assault marines (Troops) 235 Pts
2 meltaguns, sergeant with powerfist
8 Death Company (Troops) 240 Pts
Bolter; Close Combat Weapon (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
2 have BP and powerweapon
1 Rhino
1 Baal Predator (Fast Attack) @ 145 Pts
Smoke Launchers; 2 Spons. Hvy Bolters; TL Assault Cannon
1 Baal Predator (Fast Attack) @ 145 Pts
Smoke Launchers; 2 Spons. Hvy Bolters; TL Assault Cannon
Models in Army: 39
Total Army Cost: 1750
I know it doesnt have a lot of scoring units but thats not really the plan of this army.
Its an offensive army and will be played that way. It is going to attack the enemy's scoring units and choose my battels because of my mobility. If needed, then my assault marines will be able to jump to an objective.
The main battle plan is as follows.
The two dakka baals, DC rhino, mephiston and Librarian dread start on the table will the rest deepstrike. The force that is on the table will be deployed on one flank and will move up to the enemy quickly and prepare an assault and weaken the enemy. In turn 2, about 2 squads should enter the battlefield and will land somewhere out of reach of counterassaults, or preferably behind the enemy and then melta the enemy's heavy tanks while supported by the ground forces.
I think you get the idea :P
-
I don't really get why you equip your DC with bolters - you want 'em in cc, not rapid-firing at stuff. And with the fast Rhino you should make cc by turn two.
-
Its because... well... i modelled them with bolters :p... I needed their weapons for assault marines :closed-eyes:
But i think bolters are cool! They are relentless afterall, so they can rapid fire and assault afterwards.
Also it makes them a bit more versatile if their rhino gets blown up.
A little math hammer:
6 DC with pistols and CCW does 12,43 wounds on a marine stat victim on the charge. 10,45 from close combat attacks and 1,98 from pistols.
6 DC with bolters and ccw does 11,8 wounds on the charge. 7,84 from CC and 3,96 from bolters. So its not that big a difference.
-
DC with bolters are so wrong.
Plus, if you are better at shooting, he may remove the models closest preventing the assault. Sure you'll most likely plan for this and get very close, but it will happen.
Tomorrow I have the pleasure of introducing a new player to 40k, he bought my Tau and is going to face Chaos.
Just have to make a nice list for him to face. :engel:
-
DC with bolters are so wrong.
Plus, if you are better at shooting, he may remove the models closest preventing the assault. Sure you'll most likely plan for this and get very close, but it will happen.
Besides, McKnights calcs don't factor in the effects on the game. If you kill models in the shooting phase, he'll just make an unmodified Ld test. If you kill em in cc you have a good chance to run him down and take the unit out. CC kills are better!
-
True true :P
But they are still staying. I'm not buying more Ģ20 5 model boxes ::heretic::
-
Silly McKnight. :icon_rolleyes:
Anyway, I was bored and tired of doing revision so I gathered my painted chaos and took pictures.
http://img219.imageshack.us/g/chaos4.jpg/
It's hard for me to paint troops. :icon_cry:
The extra rhino houses the squad I failed to paint. :engel:
-
Very nice army! I like the look of your nurgle dudes.
-
Not bad!
Why are the termies blue?
-
I blame my camera, they're grey/black! :-D
-
Ah, yes.
I vowed to destroy them, as I recall.
-
As if you could. :icon_lol:
They have annihilated all who have stood against them!
-
Ok, so SPEARHEAD has arrived. The White Dwarf was surprisingly good, with some decent content for a change, and I hope with the new editor this trend will continue.
However, I just HAVE to gripe a little about the spearhead article: Really, the actually Spearhead lists are online? Really? I paid for pretty pics, a hand full of rules and a link to get to the lists for FREE? If they really thought they were doing me a favor by showing me pics of the new Leman Russ and the Eldar tanks from every conceivable angle, and placing the vital component to these rules (for free) online, I'd say someone has been abusing their meds again....
Having gotten that gripe out of the way, I think I like Spearhead quite a lot. I may finally have an excuse to break down and buy a Stompa (other than "they're cool", which just isn't enough justification at this time). I think it's possible I will play this far more than Planetstrike or Cities of Death or even Apocalypse.
-
Im not really interested in it... at all.. Im just looking through the rules on GW and they dont really seem to interest me.
It just sounds like a spawn of apocalypse...
-
Apocolypse is cool! :icon_biggrin:
-
WEll okay, maybe it would cool to include spearhead just not overdoing it... but oh well... the guard wont be changed that much :P
-
Don't know anything about Spearhead, yet, except its suppose to be about tanks.
I haven't played Planetstrike, yet, but looking forward to it eventually.
-
Rules can be found here:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050292a_Spearhead__Formations (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1050292a_Spearhead__Formations)
-
...how about Apocalypse Lite?
Finally read through the downloads last night, and it appears that I'm wrong about the Stompa! However, this does give IG player the chance to use their Baneblades (and variants). Some of these are a bit tasty: Tank units with 5+ invulnerable saves? Fast attack vehicles that can move flat out AND shoot? Tanks rams that count as AV15 for the ram? Me like!
-
Actually the White dwarf includes all the rules and missions, so you would still be getting something for your money.
But it is an apoc light version. The formations do not take any extra FOC slots.
Isnt the stompa a superheavy?
-
It'd better be, seeing as it's more points than a Baneblade!
-
I believe it is a Superheavy. If I get filthy rich I may buy a Stompa for kicks and stomp my sons Marines to smear with it. And maybe Shadowwolfs Nids aswell. :icon_mrgreen:
-
I believe it is a Superheavy. If I get filthy rich I may buy a Stompa for kicks and stomp my sons Marines to smear with it. And maybe Shadowwolfs Nids aswell. :icon_mrgreen:
I'm going to buy a Stompa, and never open the box. Just to spite you.
-
It'd better be, seeing as it's more points than a Baneblade!
To be fair, it does kick a fair bit more ass than a Baneblade in cc...
-
Kustom Stompas are more expensive, more durable (KFF!) and can be much more powerful shootingwise than any of the baneblade versions.
Phil
-
Isnt the stompa a superheavy?
Yup, I stand (re)corrected! It's a Super-heavy Walker. I can only guess that when I first read the Super-Heavy Spearhead entry that I was projecting TANK on that somehow... :eusa_wall:
Now I want one-badly!
-
I believe it is a Superheavy. If I get filthy rich I may buy a Stompa for kicks and stomp my sons Marines to smear with it. And maybe Shadowwolfs Nids aswell. :icon_mrgreen:
I'm going to buy a Stompa, and never open the box. Just to spite you.
I bought a stompa a ways back, on sale, and opened the box. :icon_wink:
-
I have four with one still on its sprue!
As for Tanks, just roll out the ol Skull Hammer! It is awesome!
Fill it with lootas and people will vanish mysteriously in a cloud of red mist...
Phil
-
It'd better be, seeing as it's more points than a Baneblade!
To be fair, it does kick a fair bit more ass than a Baneblade in cc...
That's a given. I wasn't trying to say that the two are equivalent in power...
-
Ok, I caved in and started a space marine army. :icon_lol:
I'll blame it on the nephew thinking their cool and wanting to learn how to paint. That and I had two boxes of AoBR with them just begging to be constructed. It can be tough to wake up in the morning to the chant of, "Build us! Build Us! Build Us!"
So we washed and base coated two dreadnaughts this weekend, one for him, one for me. He had been trying to decide on which chapter to paint and after hours of looking through the codex and the "how to paint space marines" book he decided on White Scars. I had contemplated The Mentors further back, yet had also considered designing my own, but when he picked the White Scars, I figured someone would need to teach him a way to paint white, so it looks like The Mentors it will be.
Some day I need to dig up my 40K log somewhere around here, and see where I left off.
-
Good for you!
But what did you do with all the orks? :P
-
Oh I still got those. Was slowly painting them for about 6 to 9 months. Most are painted with base and at least three other colors, although still quite a bit of work to do.
Then when the T&G campaign was announced, focus has been on converting and painting Empire for a merc army. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
-
I quite casually looked at the forge world Krieg guys today. Haven't painted anything in 3 months or so, wanted something awesome to paint to get out of the slump. Ģ36 bloody quit! Ridiculous for 10!
-
But seriously... they are awesome..
One of my "rich" (read person who doesnt know what to spend his money on) bought around 500pts of infantry and death riders 3 months ago... and hasnt put a single model together yet...
-
They do look good, but not half a days work good.
-
Can you play 40k with small armies? I'm tempted to make a small Guard army out of the heart stoppingly expensive Krieg minitaures. So litterally like two units maximum or something. They look so gritty and awesome...
I get the feeling it's a horde army and that it'd simply be too expensive for anything other than show painting.
-
Guard are horde. Guardsmen are about 4 points each.
You could play only 40k in 40 minutes/Combat Patrols.
-
Yes, a combat patrol force of 2 mounted Vet squads or something, with some kind of commander. Not a lot of minis.
-
Remember carapace armour on all squads.
Yes, this will increase points and reduce the models needed.
-
So I'd need tanks of some variety too? The command squads are troublingly Ģ20 each..
-
You don't need them, but it makes sense. Something like this would be a viable combat patrol list:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Lord Commissar
- 1 x Plasma pistol
- 1 x Power weapon
- - - > 90 Punkte
*************** 2 Standard ***************
Veteran Squad
- 3 x Veteran with Plasma gun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 170 Punkte
Veteran Squad
- 3 x Veteran with Flamer
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 140 Punkte
Gesamtpunkte Imperiale Armee : 400
-
Has anyone looked at these?
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html (http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html)
The weapons/heads/backpacks would make a good set of non Cadian guardsmen I think! Combined with the Kommisar for the Krieg at least. But would certainly be very gritty, specifically the militia heads, gasmasks etc. They would be like Krieg but without the longcoats. Also, lasguns look rubbish.
-
Them look rather nifty! Also, they are simply packing autoguns instead of Lasguns. Same profile. :icon_razz:
-
Somewhat ironically I bought all the parts to make cool looking guardsmen and then realised that it cost more than the Krieg would anyway..
Booooo.
Gonna see if I can cancel it!
-
I bought the head/backpack set from pig iron, and used it for my veterans
-
My friend uses the helmet guys with gasmasks and they look nice and fit perfectly.
I bought the manticore set today and im trying to find a way of making both the manticore and deathstrike. Where I just swap the weapons. I have 4 hellstrike missiles from the valkyries and was wondering if I could just use those, but apparently you can only build one ramp... argh!
Any ideas?
-
Hey Mogs ... Wargames Factory is coming out with their Shock Troops in the next few weeks. They are plastic, and come with plenty of options for bits, too. I think $19.95 for 18 figures.
-
Wasn't very impressed by the wargames factory guys.
I accidently bought 10 guardsmen and a command squad. Though the command squad came with breating apparatus and now I want enough for each guy! Only get 5 not 15 though lol. Been so long since i've sculpted it might get interesting!
Also, I don't actually know what I can give them to make them legal to actually play. No idea how to play 40k.
-
40K is much morer WYSIWYG oriented than Fantasy, at least when it comes to weapons, so it would be a good idea to check out equipment options before starting assembly. That said, stuff like rebreathers, knives and grenades are pretty much just there for prettiness, so no worries there.
-
Hey! Better make sure your get those frag grenades before you use them! Or you will be paying for them!
:D
Phil
-
Can you just take units of veterans instead of infantry platoons? I don't know what i'm doing! Horray!
I want a sniper, because the model is cool.
-
You can indeed take a squad of veterans instead of an infantry platoon. And the vets are cool. You can have them just as vets, or upgrade them three ways.
Forward Observers - The get camo cloaks that adds to their cover save plus Snare mines, that counts as defensive grenades.
Grenadiers - Every man and their moma gets carapace armour, a 4+ save.
Demolitions - Every man gets meltabombs and one man gets a demo charge.
If you wish, you can put all three upgrades on one unit to get one heck of elite squad but also an outrageously expensive one! :icon_razz:
However, I might, just might do something like that one day because it would be awesome to make a bunch of totally overloaded chaps packing some special stealthy armour. Somewhat like the Virtrian dragoons that works together with the Taniths and helps saving their arse in the first novel.
And then, being able to cram in three special weapons plus a heavy weapon in one squad is just too good a thing to pass up. :icon_razz:
-
Wasn't very impressed by the wargames factory guys.
I've pre-ordered a few boxes. Looking forward to painting them and plan to use them for some skirmish gaming, yet might turn them into or part of a guard army over time. Course can't use them for most tourney's, but oh well, I'm not a big tourney player anyway.
-
Anyone want one of these
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Warhammer-40K-Massive-Converted-Capitol-Imperialis-/260612690861?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cadba13ad
-
Looks amazing!
not $950 amazing though
-
What Finlay said.
I wouldn't shell out that kind of cash for it, but it's sure nice!
-
Has anyone looked at these?
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html (http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/hd10-kolony-militia-covered-helmet-head-sprues-p-19.html)
The weapons/heads/backpacks would make a good set of non Cadian guardsmen I think! Combined with the Kommisar for the Krieg at least. But would certainly be very gritty, specifically the militia heads, gasmasks etc. They would be like Krieg but without the longcoats. Also, lasguns look rubbish.
Yeah the heads are well sized and a good buy
-
Grenadiers everytime! Proper elite troops. The only model i've made so far is a sniper, looks cool.
-
Here are some interesting videos for folks to enjoy ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZd4pNXlRxY...player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfniAbzYX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnfniAbzYX8)
-
Looks very interesting! I fear that I will be sucked into it...
-
It would suck me in if it weren't for Star Wars: The Old Republic. Which is looking to be a WoW killer.
-
Everything is a WoW killer these days.
None of them seem to follow through though.
Personally I think the only thing that will "kill" WoW is age.
-
Wow? Is that world of warcraft? That computer game where people spend hours online without masturbating.
Sheer and utter madness if you ask m..m..oooohhhh... me....
-
Time will tell.
I used it more as an expression of how good it's looking rather than what my hopes for it are.
-
This game looks messed up, more like a WOW HAMMER to me. I hope they dont do the forces of good and destruction in this one too. :dry:
-
So we are having a local, small and friendly 40k tournament on saturday in our gaming club. We are a whole of 4 competitors!!! :O
Anyways, its 1750pts and im fielding my Blood angels.
I havent tried out hte list i have made (it has varied alot) so i need some comments, although i wont be able to change much of it.
HQ:
Librarian in termi armour and stormshield. Has Sanguine sword and unleash rage.
Elites:
5 Assault termies. Sergeant has lightning claws, 4 thunderhammers. They ride in a Landraider Redeemer together with the librarian.
Honour guard / Sanguinary guard. Chapterbanner, blood champion, 1 extra power weapon. I dont know if these guys should be exchanged with sanguinary guard with chapterbanner. It would give me more powerweapons but lose furious charge.
Troops:
2x 10 Assault marines with 2 meltas and a powerfist on sarge
5 Death company with 1 powersword in razorback
Fast:
Baal predator with heavy bolters
Heavy:
5 devastators with 4 missile launchers.
-
In my opinion Honor Guard trumps Sanguinary. FNP and FC. Don't forget to give 'em a Razorback though. I'd also consider running the Librarian with them wearing Power Armor, and assigning a SPriest to the Termies. Gives both squads FC!
What are those Devs doing in that list? Another Preddy would make much more sense.
-
Well I bought a termie Lib model so he stays:P
The honour guard has jump packs btw... Im thinking of using them as a support role for the assault marines, so they get the bonusses aswell.
The Devs are there because of models restrictions. I dont have a second baal model..
-
I don't really understand 40k rules yet but that list looks like you have hardly any guns. Which is awesome. Guns are for pansies.
I'm playing in a 1000 point cityfight campaign with IG and BFG combined into a super campaign. Since we play campaigns that are fluff driven I've managed to get a BFG fleet of 1 Imperial ship and the rest are Tau.
Here is my 1000 point list full of pansies.
HQ: Company Command Squad. Officer of the Fleet. Flamer 85. - The Officer of the Fleet is for a conversion. I'm writing fluff as well. I don't really like the whole Xenophobe thing so they come from the eastern fringes and have defected from the Imperium into the arms of the Tau. The officer is going to be a Tau guy. He is pretty much my only 'what!?' choice.
Troops: Platoon Command Squad. 30.
10 Guardsmen.. Flamer. 55
10 Guardsmen. Flamer. 55
Heavy Weapons Squad. 3 AutoCannons 75
Veteran Squad. Grenadiers Chimera 1 Flamer 1 Melta gun. 170 - Will be converted from Tau/Imperial bits. Might even include a couple of non human fantasy conversions. I saw an awesome 'lion' species converted out of beastmen heads.
Fast Attack: Armoured Sentinel. Autocannon. Hunter Killer Missile. Camouflage Netting. 80 - I like sentinels. The model is cool.
Heavy: Leman Russ Squadron.
3 Leman Russ Battle Tanks. Battle Cannon. Heavy Bolters. 450 - They don't have sponsons because the model i'm using is a German WW2 Tank that is 2/3rds off. 3 Leman Russ's for Ģ30!
1000
-
What kind of tank....a StugIII or Panzer IV G
-
Kampfpranzer Leopard.
-
Kampfpranzer Leopard.
You think WW2 was still going in the 1970s?
-
Don't care it was in the WW2 section! It's a cheap tank.
-
:biggriin:
-
He has probably seen A Bridge Too Far ! :D
But it ... has a lot of leman russes for a 1k game...
-
They shouldn't be Ģ9.99 then!
It's a money thing, 150 points is just too good. It takes up space without costing me Ģ15 for 10 guys worth 55 points.
-
Useless panda.
-
A Panda with a sense of money. I love your approach in using military scale models, Mogsam. More variety, less cost. :icon_mrgreen:
Would you mind put up some pics of your tanks?
-
All this talk of those beautiful tanks is making me wanna start an Imperial Guard army. :icon_confused:
Stop it right now.
-
When i'm finished i'll post pictures of the tank and my troopers. At the moment two of them are in pieces with the other 600 points of my army. The other is being painted.
-
Tanks are just a good in an Ork list. And Stompas... mmmmmm.... STOMPAS!
STOMP STOMP STOMP STOMP!
Phil
-
I don't really understand 40k rules yet but that list looks like you have hardly any guns. Which is awesome. Guns are for pansies.
:icon_lol: :icon_lol:
If I had more sig space, maybe I'd quote this one. :::cheers:::
-
I made an alternative list for the tournament tomorrow!
Now i just have to choose...
New list
HQ:
Reclusiarch - goes with DC
Honour guard with blood champion and chapterbanner and jump packs.
Elites: 5 Assault termies, 4 with hammers and shields.. These guys are deepstriking?
Troops:
2x 10 assault marines with 2 meltas and one powerfist.
8 Death company. 1 with a powersword. Riding a landraider.
Fast:
2 Dakka baals
The first list was:
HQ:
Librarian in termi armour and stormshield. Has Sanguine sword and unleash rage.
Elites:
5 Assault termies. Sergeant has lightning claws, 4 thunderhammers. They ride in a Landraider Redeemer together with the librarian.
Honour guard / Sanguinary guard. Chapterbanner, blood champion, 1 extra power weapon. I dont know if these guys should be exchanged with sanguinary guard with chapterbanner. It would give me more powerweapons but lose furious charge.
Troops:
2x 10 Assault marines with 2 meltas and a powerfist on sarge
5 Death company with 1 powersword in razorback
Fast:
Baal predator with heavy bolters
Heavy:
5 devastators with 4 missile launchers.
Thoughts:
The new list has more tanks. But the deepstriking termies seems hard to use properly now that they dont have a ride, which I dont have any experience in.
Right now im thinking of staying with the old list.. mostly because those models... but dno.
I could exchange the assault termies in the new list with vanguard veterans and give them a powerfist and some powerswords and jump packs. And give out some powerweapons here and there.
I just loooove those termie models.. and i have them painted :p so I really want them in the list.
-
Ok, my first thought ... stop playing 40K, play WFB instead. :icon_wink:
-
Im gonna play 8th on sunday :P
-
That'll be a good day for such, celebrating the fourth while freeing yourself from 40k rule. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
-
Thats actually true.. i havent played fantasy for a year or so... half a year at least.
-
I play fantasy alot. But, I also love 40k. So far I have plans to make the following armies:
Space Marine Battle Company (half-way finished with this one. Need transports and 3 more tactical squads.)
All infantry Imperial Guard (Using Wargames Factory Great Coat Troopers)
Daemonhunters Inquisition. (Almost finished)
Witchhunters Inquisition. (Not started)
Artillery Company of Imperial Guard (2 veteran squads and 9 basilisks. Only using this in Apocalypse games)
Space Marine Terminator Detachment (20 terminators.)
-
All infantry Imperial Guard (Using Wargames Factory Great Coat Troopers)
Their Storm Troopers are close to being released. I've got some on order, and with them being created, I'm seriously contemplating using them for Imperial Guard as well. Won't be able to use them in a GW tourney, but oh well.
By the way, it seems liek these are going to be a big hit, and it seems like a heavy weapons/command sprue will be following at some point as well.
-
Yeah. I've been reading over the Wargames Factory forum over there. (I'm 132nd over there too)
I've always been interested in Wargames Factory, having been contemplating on starting an Ancient Republican Roman Army alongside some Jewish Revolt Zealots. And some Germans thrown in for good measure.
-
This is the 40K thread, and there's a WF thread here as well, so I'll save most comments regarding other figures they are producing for over there, but I've got my first box of the late republic/early imperial romans already (1 box each of infantry & cavalry), with intentions of making some of Rome's enemies at some point as well. :icon_cool:
-
I just played an apocalypse battle with 10k on each side, both with 4 players..
It sucked..
-
I don't like games that size very much either. 3K is about the limit of what I really enjoy. Bigger than that, and it becomes work.
-
Yes, I agree Aldaris...
details wiill come later.
-
I dont even know what details to write. One of the opposing players had only brought a titan, tower of skulls, plague tower, dooms day device and some planes.
The rest of us brought normal stuff, besides a baneblade and shadowsword... we got owned...
-
When I drop more than 2 stompas, the same sort of thing happens to me (nobody can handle it). You need to coordinate with your partners in a 6000 point and up game.
Phil
-
Yes one guy also suggested that but we didnt reach any consensus before the game... so it became meh.. Otherwise it would have been fun!
-
Some lovely thredomancy right here because I see no need to start a new thread.
I have for the first time ever, managed to paint, from scratch, a 40K tank all by myself. My old lovely IG tanks were painted by a local talent whom I paid lots of green for lovely work. This time I wanted to tackle the boring chore of painting one myself - and now that I am done, what the hell was I thinking? Painting tanks isn't that boring and can be a good change from models such as terminators, Ogres or humans. Yes I know that it is black but it is a tank!
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Black%20Legion/raider1.jpg)
Very proud of this, mostly because it is a tank. A tank God damn it! :closed-eyes:
DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR (and his gay space marines in blue)!
-
Its black legion dude! Its not hard to paint when its 80% done when its primed :icon_rolleyes:
With that said, good job! :eusa_clap:
On another note, im having new army syndrome this month. First it was the new High elves but now im having feelings for tyranids, just because they are so awesome.
-
Nice stuff, Shadowlord. And Black Legion suits you perfectly! :::cheers:::
-
Very pretty. Wish I had the talent to do vehicles right.
-
On another note, im having new army syndrome this month.
You too? After having seen the new upcoming Dark Eldar, I felt an itch I plan to scratch around christmas.
-
No screw the Dark Eldar. Im wanting the Tyranids more and more for each day!
-
No screw the Dark Eldar. Im wanting the Tyranids more and more for each day!
To be honest, I'd rather screw Dark Eldar than Tyranids. :wink: The new Lelith Hesperax model is quite yummy for example.
-
Imperial Guard is a difficult army to play, there are so many options and its a tricky balance between expendable man power and big guns.
Does anyone else notice though that most 40k armies tend to be played as either purely shooting or purely assault? The game is really not much good in a pitched battle, objective taking is much more competitive, hence quite a different game from fantasy.
-
To be honest, I'd rather screw Dark Eldar than Tyranids.
What? Even with all those mis-shapen purple heads?
Sorry, childish
-
Does anyone else notice though that most 40k armies tend to be played as either purely shooting or purely assault?
I always prefer a nice mix of shooty and assault elements if my army is up to it. Which means that my CSM are mixed while my IG is pretty much pure shooting/psyker.
-
I am doing a pure Black Templar army with extra banner bearers for Marks but no real loyalists.
I intend to do an Empire styled all around army that can face anything.
-
.... AAAnd The new Dark Eldar are up for preorder. I am pleasantly surprised by the prices! 15 pounds for boxes of 10 Kabbalite Warriors or 10 Wytches? That's pretty reasonable.
Also: Lelith. Wow. 4 profile Attacks that ignore AS, and she gets an extra attack for each point her WS is higher than her opponents. And her WS is 9. So if she charges a squad of marines that would be 10 attacks. :icon_eek:
I like her.
-
with no armour?
I would say shoot her...shoot her fast...with a double tap.
-
That has always been the weakness of DE in general and Wytches in particular. They get a 4++ save in cc, but outside of it they only have a 6+. Still, good old Lelith should do pretty well leading a Wytch squad. I also like the fact that all splinter weapons now count as poisoned, so they wound everything on a 4+. Which make splinter rifles pretty damn fine standard guns in my opinion. Not as good against low T targets as a bolter, but much more versatile.
-
hmmm how about we try a small 40k game next time you come around I still havenīt played a single game in the latest edition.
-
Sure man, no problem! I hardly played any 40k this year besides a tournament at the very beginning, so it's definitely time.
-
I've been generally unhappy with the game's direction as of late. You have 3 scenarios. 2 involve capturing objectives with your troops(not your elites or the fast guys who can easily get to said objectives). Then you have the 3rd scenario, where every unit, from a guardsmen squad to a terminator squad is one "kill" point. Not only does this favor Marines(a small elite force whose units auto-rally) but it punishes you for taking the expendable troops you need to capture the objectives.
Between IG armies with minimal infantry(3 tanks per heavy support slot :icon_mad:), assaulting deepstrikers(BA), armies that can take 4 HQs(SW) or get free HQs that come with squads(BA) the current environment just seems so alien to me, you know?
-
Right you buggers, you've done it. Because of all your talk of stompas and tanks and deepstrike maneuvers, I now feel the need to do a 40k army. I was just talking to somebody about traitor guard as it happens....
-
I've been generally unhappy with the game's direction as of late. You have 3 scenarios. 2 involve capturing objectives with your troops(not your elites or the fast guys who can easily get to said objectives). Then you have the 3rd scenario, where every unit, from a guardsmen squad to a terminator squad is one "kill" point. Not only does this favor Marines(a small elite force whose units auto-rally) but it punishes you for taking the expendable troops you need to capture the objectives.
Between IG armies with minimal infantry(3 tanks per heavy support slot :icon_mad:), assaulting deepstrikers(BA), armies that can take 4 HQs(SW) or get free HQs that come with squads(BA) the current environment just seems so alien to me, you know?
The system isn't perfect, but it is, in my opinion, by far the best iteration of 40K yet. You actually have to balance your armies. You have to take troops choices. You must have some mobile troops choices to capture objectives, you can't just turtle. You must make a decision between mass small, flexible units that will yield lots of KP and more stable, bigger units. I love it. And pretty much all 40K players I know consider it far superior to 4th edition.
-
Looks like someone missed Planetstrike, Battlemissions, Cities of Death and Apokalypse...
-
One of the new Mandrakes. Arr!
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg)
And the new Urien Rakarth:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg)
This looks to be one sweet, sweet release.
-
yeh, I really like them. and the 15 for 10 pricing is at least reasonable, as opposed to the 25 for 10 goldswords, goldigors, goldguard and goldlions.
Those had made me worried 25 for 10 was going to be the new base cost, which would have priced me out.
-
I think I will start with a comfy 500 points or so once I'm reasonably satisfied wtih my Skaven. Something like 2 Raider squads of some kind and a Ravager. On another note: they're also apparently getting friggin' FIGHTER JETS. And BOMBERS. Not skimmers, flyers.
:-D
-
40k seems to be cheaper than Fantasy.
-
Looks like someone missed Planetstrike, Battlemissions, Cities of Death and Apokalypse...
I certainly wish people played those around here. You're right though, it's hardly GW's fault that most people around here want to just line their guys up and chase objectives instead of playing themed games.
-
40k seems to be cheaper than Fantasy.
Not after you throw in a transport for every squad. :icon_biggrin:
-
You're right though, it's hardly GW's fault that most people around here want to just line their guys up and chase objectives instead of playing themed games.
Those books are the best thing about 40K just like the Warhammer Battles section in 8th is the best part about fantasy.
-
IG is awesome sauce for the mission based 40k
you roll the missions with killpoints just merge your squads to 2*50 soldiers
you roll the mission for capturing you have easily 10 units units of 10 soldiers each to spread out on the battlefield.
Well all I talk is theory but I think IG is one of the top dogs and it makes sense to field as many meat bags as possibl.E!
Those Mandrakes look.....awesome!
-
with no armour?
That's part of her appeal...
One of the new Mandrakes. Arr!
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430019a_2010-10-05_Mandrake_873x627.jpg)
And the new Urien Rakarth:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1430017a_2010-10-05_Urien_873x627.jpg)
This looks to be one sweet, sweet release.
Agreed!
-
They look more like "terror causing evil guys you donīt want to join your Imperial slay an alien party" than clowns.
-
They're not supposed to be clowns. That would be the Harlequins. Which are also in the Codex, supposedly with identical stats to the ones in the Craftworld Eldar one.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251719_99110104113_Harlequintroupemain_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1251719_99110104113_Harlequintroupemain_873x627.jpg)
-
I like the whole Harlquin cult in the Eldar Background as the laughing god is my absolute favorite (too bad Loec has so little fluff in fantasy).
But I meant the old mandrakes
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250305_99060112023_DEldarMandrakesmain_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250305_99060112023_DEldarMandrakesmain_873x627.jpg)
These guys qualify as clowns in my book
as do these
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250300_99060112021_DEgrotesquesmain_873x627.jpg (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1250300_99060112021_DEgrotesquesmain_873x627.jpg)
just not evil enough....more comedy factor.
-
Yep, the old DE range is pretty horrendous, with few exceptions (like the Raider and the Talos). But the new one really makes up for it.
Been keeping track of the news on Warseer, and some new interesting tidbits have arrived. Namely, your Archon can take a retinue that will be made up of different specialists. One of those can give the entire retinue poison that wounds on a 2+. Combine that with the Archons Huskblade (PW, instant death) and you have one scary, scary Character and MC killer.
Also, there will apparently be 2 versions of grotesques, one big, one small. The big ones will be in Ogryn territory with S5 T5 3W and FNP. Ouch! Apparently they need guidance from an IC though, because if they don't have that they can just die on a failed LD test (while lashing out to the nearest quad while doing so).
The Mandrakes apparently have infiltrate and stealth, and being the half DE, half Demons that they are can shoot fire from their hands at their opponents with S4 AP4 Assault 2. Ouch again.
I also like the pain token mechanism. If a DE unit kills off another unit, it gets a pain token. 1st token gives FNP, second one gives furious charge, third one gives fearless. There are alternative ways to build those tokens up as well, Haemunculi for example give squads they join a free one, and there is a Talos variant that can bestow pain tokens to nearby DE units when it kills stuff. There might be more, but this is already pretty huge. Standard Warriors alone with FNP would be a lot more threatening suddenly. And on Wytches it would be simply awesome. 4++ followed by FNP in cc is going to keep those gladiators alive for a looonng time.
And fnally, good ole Asdrubael Vect is rumored to be able to steal the initiative on a 4+. Neat.
-
I think the long waiting game has paid of for the DE players..Kudos. :::cheers:::
-
Caertainly looks like it has. When I started out with 40K the friend I was playing with only had DE, so this was the only army I played against for quite some time, and I was usually able to totally stomp it with my CSM (with a few notable exceptions). Now it looks like they will finally be really good, and really good looking to boot. Or as someone put it on Warseer: "less like a glass cannon, more like a glass nuke!"
:-D
-
I have always hoped they removed the pointless DE from the 40K universe.
But then Jes was born, and now there is a new range released soonish.
I have been whipping my back hard daily for my former foolishness.
-
Sprue pictures: http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=23406
The details are fantastic.
-
I've just ordered my new IG Sentinel Titan .................
(http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2005/nn20050518f2a.jpg)
STory:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?nn20050518f2.htm
-
Hmmmm tough choice love bot or this one?
-
This one.
You can take women as a substitute for lovebot.
-
You can take women as a substitute for lovebot.
But aren't those prone to glitches and bugs? I'm sure there was a thread in the BT about this at some point.
-
I had very nearly posted something inappropriate. I get the feeling that some people want me to get banned...
-
I don't hate you that much.
Just finished this lord and in spite crappy pics, this is my favorite model (not paintjob).
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Black%20Legion/lord1.jpg)
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Black%20Legion/lord2.jpg)
Some appropriate music I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvssNCZ5NeE
40K rawks! (yes I am 40 years of age).
-
Great stuff as usual!
Though if I may say so, the fur (?) on the back could use another level of highlights; then it would match the painting quality of the rest of the model better.
-
I swear, the Space Marines are a curse upon me, destined to follow me until I die.
Just when I thought I'd got rid of them once and for all, I jumped on a cheap unboxed Tactical Squad, and caught of a glimpse of the FW Raven Guard models.
Here we go again...... :icon_eek:
-
I've just ordered my new IG Sentinel Titan .................
(http://www.japantimes.co.jp/images/photos2005/nn20050518f2a.jpg)
STory:
http://search.japantimes.co.jp/member/member.html?nn20050518f2.htm
THAT IS AWESOME!
And not that expensive either, at only 275k UK Pounds, or 444k AUD.
If I was some mega rich guy who bought expensive Sports cars, I would so splash out and get one of these.
How great would it be if someone opened a 'Paintball' park that featured these.
-
How great would it be if someone opened a 'Paintball' park that featured these.
Great, but so incredibly expensive...
-
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee6/MintyM15/DSCF1036.jpg)
oh god what
They're back.....
-
I think it is awesome that you go imperial fists as they are one of the orders you donīt see that often.
-
My son approves of Imperial fist too. He is proud of his Lysander miniature and the ranks of yellow marines. And Lysander is a beast... brrr...
-
I....erm....I'm not painting them as Imperial Fists.
That's a white undercoat, under an IMMENSLEY yellow lightbulb....
Pics incoming this even of a test model, perhaps, and all shall be revealed....
-
Yep, most definitely not an Imperial Fist. And finished, obviously.
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee6/MintyM15/DSCF1038.jpg)
-
Hmm... interesting. Deathwatch?
-
Nah, DIY chapter.
They need a name though.
-
Nah, DIY chapter.
DIY Chapter is great. Good on you.
-
The mold lines! The mold liiines!
-
Shut your face patsy.
Yes. Your face, not your mouth, your entire face.
After years of playing this game, I have only just started even giving moldlines a cursory once over with the knife.
-
After years of playing this game, I have only just started even giving moldlines a cursory once over with the knife.
You not only suck, you also brag about it.
Impressive!
-
You not only suck
And for an affordable price!
Oops we're going back table!
-
Well, I won't be going to you anymore now that my face is on shutdown.
-
You weren't one of my better clients, so you wont be missed.
-
Was it the taste? I should probably eat more fruit anyway.
-
The mold lines! The mold liiines!
Not visible or noticable when actually playing the game, so unimportant to me.
-
Not visible or noticable when actually playing the game, so unimportant to me.
Nor is dormant herpes during sex, but you don't want that do you?
-
Mold lines ruin everything. On another note, i am playing a 1500 point game against dark angels. Will report later.
-
Mold lines ruin everything. On another note, i am playing a 1500 point game against dark angels. Will report later.
I wish you'd lose.
-
Not visible or noticable when actually playing the game, so unimportant to me.
Nor is dormant herpes during sex, but you don't want that do you?
Well, no, but that's an entirely different situation.
Putting condoms on your army will not help with mould lines....
-
Mold lines ruin everything. On another note, i am playing a 1500 point game against dark angels. Will report later.
I wish you'd lose.
Aren't you a bundle of joy today? :icon_biggrin:
Putting condoms on your army will not help with mould lines....
On that matter, I've never understood why "Trojans" is a condom brand. It's a pretty unfortunate name, no? "Trojan Horse" - a device used to sneak into an otherwise well-guarded fortress, where it released lots of seamen?
-
I agree with Philly, mold lines ruin everything. Your last relationship? Mold lines. The snowman you built? Mold lines.
-
Your last relationship?
What the hell is one of those.
-
Your last relationship?
What the hell is one of those.
It's that thing Shadowlord does when he comes over biweekly and does things for money. You know.
-
This is both awesome and back table material.
-
Well, no, but that's an entirely different situation.
Both still irks me so they aren't all that different.
-
This is both awesome and back table material.
...because 40k is too brutal?
-
No it is all over the place.
I won the game handily. Orks are fun.
-
I do hope this is a joke because I can not for the love of the chaos Gods understand why this is being released:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk57/GKTerminators/Miscelanious/Stormraven.jpg)
Unless they used a plastic Thunderhawk* when converting a stormraven.
Deliver us Jes from this madness!!!
* Rumours is that this coming summer is about flying stuff for 40K.
-
Oii! Do you love GW? If you do, shut up, pay up and smile happily carrying three of those babies home to your storage, Shadowlord. :icon_razz:
-
They just released the dreamy steamy DE and you expect me to endorse that abomination? ::heretic::
-
Its seriously ugly
-
Six pages of griping on B&C so far today. Lol. And somebody's photoshopped version - with the turret/intake replaced with a razorback top - seems to be getting considerably better reviews. Still, the thing is hideous. My poor Grey Knights are crying that they'll be walking into battle for yet another six years, cause there's no way I'm letting them fly in that abomination.
-
You moaning minnies ........ it's fantastic .........
... straight out of Star Wars meets ....... Thunderbirds.
:engel:
-
DAS EGG WITH WINGS.
-
Alright! I donīt think it looks half bad. Space marine stuff ainīt supposed to look as sexy as eldar stuff anyway.
-
DAS EGG WITH WINGS has persuaded me to seriously consider Blood Angels.
It started due to someone comparing DAS EGG WITH WINGS with a HIND Gunship. I love HIND Gunships. Even if DAS EGG WITH WINGS isn't one, I'm now hooked.
-
Not so bad in this pic:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/11/11/154621_sm-Digital%20Art%2C%20Stormraven.jpg)
-
Well, that is a photoshop where it's hugely modified.
-
I think thats rather flash to be honest, I like it. Im not much of a 40k player, what is it?
-
Seriously... the real model looks like something that would fall down, with its nose first as soon as it leaves the hangar of a strike cruiser.
-
I think it looks so cool I would like it as an alternative Valkyrie for my Guardsmen. :icon_razz:
-
Seriously... the real model looks like something that would fall down, with its nose first as soon as it leaves the hangar of a strike cruiser.
Seems to hover more than fly... The original pic is still horrendous.
But it is a sign that the Thunderhawk is out next summer.
50% of GW's customers just wet their pants when I typed that.
-
I farth on thunderhawks! Just give me new ork stuff for non-apokalypze games. Like rules for using fighta-bommaz.
-
Next summer is all about Flyers for 40k.
No doubt the popular Orks will get some.
I know Eldar will. ::heretic::
-
Woohoo! Iīm in GREEN heaven! :icon_mrgreen:
-
I finally converted my Terminators to have their proper armaments today. Had to improvise two Combiplasmas and a Combimelta since the box only includes one combimelta and the heavy weapon options. I think it turned out rather well, and I even got around to start painting them (and I finished a unit of rat ogres...). A good evening of hobby stuff.
I have hardly played any 40K this year, it feels good to finally do some stuff for those armies again.
-
I haven't even looked at my Much-better-than-Aldaris' Chaos Marine army in ages.
What I do know is my Terminators were correct from the start. :engel:
-
Just bought the Dark eldar codex today. :D
-
I might accidently get that too...
-
Emperor help me if I also begin that army....
-
I think I will do.
Just so I have two armies better than Aldaris. :engel:
-
I would start with one to begin with...
:engel:
-
Haha :p
-
I saw them Dark eldar boxes up close and I was almost pulled into the Commoragh. Luckily, I got shagged by a unit of new Dragon princes instead.
-
I guess they...
charged right on in.
-
Kinda, I am still a bit sore but it is still satisfying...
-
Well I finally broke down and actually bought models for playing 40K. Spacewolves, no big surprize I suppose really, semi bionic vikings in space with multiple genetic enhancements. I've started off with assembling 3 units of greyhunters 2 pigtanks and a raider. Any advice for which special weapons I should put into the units of hunters?
-
Meltas.
powerfist and/ mark of wulfen, i have no idea how their restrictions for that work out.
-
First off: do not mix roles, for example: never pick a melta and a flamer. No matter what you shoot at, one of your specials will be wasted on something it isn't suited for. Always go for uniform loadout within a squad. If you want to do a generalist approach, I would propably make one squad with meltas, one with flamers, one with plasma. That will give you decent all round firepower against all possible targets. Use the option of the sarges to have a powersword or fist, it really raises the combat potential of your squads significantly. When in doubt, go for the fist. Do not outfit your sarges with plasma pistols. Nothing is more embarassing than losing your expensive power fist sarge to an overheat.
Weapons choices also depend a lot on what you want the squad to do, and that means taking the (future) rest of your army into account. Basically you need to be able to deal with light vehicles, heavy vehicles (especially AV14 needs to be considered), numerous light infantry, monstrous creatures and elite infantry. Pretty much all 40k units fall into one of those categories, and you need to have some sort of answer for them. So if you say you'll cover all your anti-tank with heavy support, you can leave infantry killing to other parts of your army. My point is that it is hard to give advice without knowing your overall concept, where you want to go with this force. That is why I recommended the above setup as a generalist approach that will do decent in all areas: you have flamers to deal with infantry, plasma to deal with elite infantry, light vehicles and monsters and meltas as specialist tank killers (the current metagame tends to favor the melta over the other specials, but I am not convinced. I still make good use of plasma guns). The power fist supplements pretty much all of those roles nicely. On second thought, you might want to consider a power sword for the flamer squad, given what you will be shooting at with them most of the time and the fact that the power sword gives you one more attack (a fist does not synergize with a pistol for the additional hand weapon bonus).
Hope that helps.
-
Cool about what I was thinking of. It seems the Hunters are resticted quite a bit in comparison the the other astartes chapters as to what they can take for special weapons, rocket launchers FRex are not even an option, only fangs can be trusted with those. Would you recommend a melta and power weapon on the same model or would you split those features up I'm leaning towards splitting them up. I've also modded a Lysander model to be my very own Arjac Rockfist, for when I get going on the wolf guard.
-
Cool about what I was thinking of. It seems the Hunters are resticted quite a bit in comparison the the other astartes chapters as to what they can take for special weapons
Restricted? The fact that they can take two specials instead of the usual special/heavy combo makes them - in my eyes - one of the most awesome troops choices in the game! A heavy weapon trooper wants to stay put and shoot, a special weapon trooper wants to move around to engage. The usual marine solution is splitting up into combat squads. Which is fine and dandy, but leaves you with just 5 bodies in a squad - very vulnerable to just about anything. With space wolves, you have dedicated units designed to cover different assignments. Longfangs are the heavy weapons troopers par excellence - you can split your fire and even get countercharge thrown in for good measure! And the hunters are there to take the initiative - move forward and engage at close range. Unlike regular marine armies you do not have to compromise between those roles. Which is a big, big plus, not a disadvantage.
:wink:
As far as I know (I do not have the 'dex) you cannot have a melta and powerweapon on the same model - only troopers can carry meltas, only the sarge can get a power weapon. Even if you could I would not recommend it because of the way wound allocation works in 40k.
-
Yes space wolves is one of the best armies out there in my super non biased opinion.
:engel:
-
looking at the codex and the phrase is "one grey hunter may" except for the "if squad number's 10 models a second grey hunter may..." so it seems you can if you wish have a mark of the wulfen, power weapon bearing, meltagun carrier if you wish, besides the wolf guard squad leader I mean. and the choices are flamer, melta, and plasma guns (max 2 in 10 models) as well as a single plasma pistol, single standard, single mark of the wulfen, and single powerweapon/powerfist.
I'm really liking these guys, about the only thing I could ask for more would be chaplains or those groovy miniguns on a tracked tripod deelies but I'll take my fangs as a nice trade off, and just get them a nice razorback instead.
I have an idea to do up a dreadnaught as Njall Stormcaller too, I think it would be a hella cool conversion.
-
I think my friend said that you cant give the mark of wulfen to a powerfist guy... but i havent read it
-
I think you could maybe but it would be pointless. It says the usual close combat attacks are replaced with D6+1 attacks and the attacks are made using the model's own claws and teeth, hence not affected by wargear. (which is the "you could do it but why would you want to?" part)
-
Ah that makes sense then!
Shit... I bought a box of kabalite warriors...
-
For trophys on other army's vehicles? :icon_twisted:
-
unfortunately not. I think its all the massive exam assignments that make me buy stuff to do something else then write.
-
Sounds bad... I think I would have problems fighting of the Wyches if I happened to look at the minis at the wrong moment.
-
Wyches are nice! But I would prefer Wracks for the closecombat duties.
My friend just got his catachan army finished at Blue table painting:
http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=4090&view&offset=0 (http://www.bluetablepainting.com/view_gallery.php?galleryID=4090&view&offset=0)
-
Not bad at all.
I must apologise Aldaris, I have succumbed. I no longer only idolise Chaos.
I'm with the Angels now...
-
Yea i think they are cool too. The Hydras and manticores are supposed to be from some other crazy tank girl regiment. I like that idea. But there are some bad drybrushes there. Especially the infantry lasguns and such... only heavily drybrushed grey.
Blood angels or dark angels? :P
-
Actual Angels, not emos.
-
@MrDWhitey: which ones are the emo angels? Both chapters are kinda tortured by their past...
After Hurenweibels interest I had a closer look at the Space Wolves codex, and I must say I've hardly ever seen a dex where it is so easy to come up with a super-nasty list...
3 squads of longfangs with 5 missile launchers each, 4 squads of grey hunters with 2 meltas, a fist and a rhino each (could also get drop pods instead), 5 terminator wolfguard with stormshields and a mix of thunderhammers, powerfists and chainfists in a LR redeemer, joined by a runepriest in Termie armor with 2 powers of choice. Rock hard 2000 points. And that's after about 5 minutes of fooling around. Man, those dudes are nasty. Well, I knew they were nasty after playing against them a couple of times, but they make it surprisingly easy to come up with competitive army compositions.
-
@MrDWhitey: which ones are the emo angels? Both chapters are kinda tortured by their past...
Dark Angels cut themselves, emo angels.
Blood Angels cut other people. Lots of times.
Plus all my Assault Marines will be made using Sanguinary Guard models.
:engel:
-
So the twillight marines? :P
Thats gonna be expensive.... so what are you gonna use as sanguinary guard ?
-
:icon_lol: "what are you gonna use as sanguinary guard" :icon_lol:
-
A true Blood Angel player uses Sanguinary guard :P
-
What would you know, filthy furry.
-
Still finetuning my new guard list - this is what I've come up with now. Regretfully took out the mortars in the infantry platoons, but was able to mount up all the vets in chimeras and give the CCS some decent firepower to boot for the points. Decent amount of mobile scorers, plenty of flamers and templates for crowd control, plenty of meltas, ACs and Lascannons to bust transports, some Plasma for monsters and the like. 10 vehicles and over 100 bodies. Let me know what you guys think.
*************** 1 HQ ***************
CCS
- Meltabombs
- 3 x Melta
+ Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 140
*************** 6 Troops ***************
1st Infantry Platoon
+ PCS
- 3 x Flamer
+ Infantry squad - Autocannon
+ Infantry squad - Autocannon
+ Infantry squad - Autocannon
- - - > 225
2nd Infantry Platoon
+ PCS
- 3 x Flamer
+ Infantry squad - Autocannon
+ Infantry squad - Autocannon
+ Infantry squad - Autocannon
- - - > 225
1st Veterans
- 3 x Melta
+ Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 155
2nd Veterans
- 3 x Melta
+ Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 155
3rd Veterans
- 3 x Plasma Gun
+ Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 170
4th Veterans
- 3 x Plasma Gun
+ Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 170
*************** 2 Fast Attack ***************
1 Vendetta
- - - > 130
1 Vendetta
- - - > 130
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Leman-Russ Squadron
+ - Leman Russ MBT
- Heavy Bolter
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons
- - - > 170
Leman-Russ Squadron
+ - Leman Russ MBT
- Heavy Bolter
- Heavy Bolter Sponsons
- - - > 170
Manticore Missile Tank
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 160
2000
-
@MrDWhitey: which ones are the emo angels? Both chapters are kinda tortured by their past...
After Hurenweibels interest I had a closer look at the Space Wolves codex, and I must say I've hardly ever seen a dex where it is so easy to come up with a super-nasty list...
3 squads of longfangs with 5 missile launchers each, 4 squads of grey hunters with 2 meltas, a fist and a rhino each (could also get drop pods instead), 5 terminator wolfguard with stormshields and a mix of thunderhammers, powerfists and chainfists in a LR redeemer, joined by a runepriest in Termie armor with 2 powers of choice. Rock hard 2000 points. And that's after about 5 minutes of fooling around. Man, those dudes are nasty. Well, I knew they were nasty after playing against them a couple of times, but they make it surprisingly easy to come up with competitive army compositions.
My personal favorite were the 105 point Bikers with Storm Shields. T5, 3+/3+. Ouchers.
-
That list is crazily nasty Aldaris :D Is it for tournament use?
I usually dont play 2000pts so I dont really have a feel of how other armies look at these points, but that is one large army with lots of firepower. Shame about the mortars though! They are so nice :(
I might steal this list and try it out :P
-
Yeah, that's propably something I'd play in a tournament, but also in friendly play vs. dudes who also like competitive without resorting to soulless cookie-cutters. This should still be fun to play because it combines firepower with maneuverability and won't just be one of those "I don't move all game, I only roll dice" lists.
And I agree, it IS a shame about the mortars, but I just don't see where I could save 120 points to bring them back in.
-
Nice list Aldaris, I might use it in the future :icon_biggrin:
Q: Can Tankbustas, Burnas etc. take a trukk as a dedicaded transport? Because it doesn t say anything in their entry.
Also , Q: Some people say that it is not allowed to use Khorne bererkers and noise marines or plauge marines or thousand sons, in the same CSM army beacuse of God rivally, they say that that was errated but I can t find it anywhere, is it true? :icon_confused:
-
Also , Q: Some people say that it is not allowed to use Khorne bererkers and noise marines or plauge marines or thousand sons, in the same CSM army beacuse of God rivally, they say that that was errated but I can t find it anywhere, is it true? :icon_confused:
Bullshit. No restrictions rules-wise whatsoever. Didn't have to be errata'ed either, because it is abundantly clear from the dex that there are no restricitons.
HOWEVER, it is cool and fluffy to consider the rivalry between the gods and redtrict your choices accordingly. For example, my CSM force is led by either a General or a Demon Prince of Tzeentch. That means he welcomes the followers of Tzeentch, Khorne and Slaanesh into his warband, but will open fire on Nurgle worshippers on sight.
-
It's also cool and fluffy to realise that the differing chaos forces will put aside their differences to kill the Imperium.
Jesus, people are still clinging to the hatred of each other stuff? They need a slap. A hard slap, infact, a beating, a good old fashioned take behind the goddamn shed and beaten with shovels for being so petty minded and ******************************************************
By the way, this is from someone running a Nurgle Chaos Space Marine force, and doesn't usually mix gods.
-
Whut?! Why does someone who finds the fluff that has been established for a long time and kinda sticks to it for his own amusement have to be beaten with a shovel?
Do I need to pretend that the inter-gods animosity never existed to be cool? Or do I misunderstand you somehow here?
-
You misunderstand.
I mean the same people as you. Those that not only proclaim the fluff loudly, but then denounce you, or even try to disallow you from mixing God forces.
-
You misunderstand.
I mean the same people as you. Those that not only proclaim the fluff loudly, but then denounce you, or even try to disallow you from mixing God forces.
Ah! Fluff hooligans. Yes, those are annoying.
-
And need to be beaten with shovels.
Also, I heard a while ago that fluffwises the 4 gods weren't all hatin' on each other. So.... :engel:
Know anything about it?
-
No, I do not.
*nanananana*
Realm of Chaos books are the last word on this.
-
Thought so, it was mentioned awhile ago on Warseer.
-
Thanks guys. These people must get burned on the stake while getting beat up by shovels.
Thanks God, because I bought a lot of different patrons CSM and freaked out when tey told me that I cant use them.
About my other question?
-
Your other question is a trifle to me and Aldaris.
a) We're righteously indignant about the other issue.
b) I don't play orks. I don't think he does either. :biggriin:
-
My colleague Mr. White has put this admirably. But I feel magnanimous, so I checked onlinecodex.
Answer: no, they can't. You can just use a battlewagon from a heavy support slot though.
-
OK Thanks :biggriin:
Weird though , it doesn t make a lot of sence, but it doesn t need to. :icon_cool:
-
Orks actually do have a lot of transport options, and the battlewagon is just obscenely good for it's points. Huge transport capacity, AV 14 in the front and open topped. That means that if you put, say, burnaz in one, they can all shoot out. Can you say "15 flame templates"? Bosses can take them as dedicated transports as well, and bosses can be troops. You can also put deathrollaz on those for some brutal ramming action.
Hell, I just realized you could squeeze 9 battlewagons with deathrollaz into 2000 points, 6 with small boss units, 3 with burnaz. Ouch!
-
And don t forget the Fostum Force Field mek :icon_mrgreen:
I just find it weird because I think that tankbustas (lets say 5 of them) in a trukk , only105-110 points. They are a serious threat for any vehicle if they can move flat out. But no transport? :icon_confused:
Because I play a really heavies list, I dont have that slot for the wagon, or the looted wagon. :icon_cry:
Also, only two nob units can become troops via Warboss ( only two HQ), but still 8 Battlewagons are mean :icon_mrgreen: , even with regular boyz inside (since burnas are elites you must take nobz to buy Wagons)
-
This one is for Aldaris, it'll help his playstyle. :engel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUxjS-wOxNY
Edit: Oh lord, the Genestealer one is gold.
-
I'm still trying to figure out if this is satire or serious.
OK, after having watched the magnetized dice thingy, I'm convinced he's joking.
-
when you are sneaky it wins you games :::cheers:::
-
Grey knights are coming in April!
https://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300088a&_requestid=284076 (https://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14300088a&_requestid=284076)
-
I have mentioned this somewhere else but Eisenhorn is a really good book....it makes me want fielding an Inquisitor with retinue kicking some butt.
-
@ McKNight: You beat me to it!
:-D
Man, I'm looking forward to this.
-
Im so happy :D
-
So I know where my tax return will go.
-
I will pick up my Sisters of Battle again. Repent!
-
Those are being redone too, by the way.
-
Hell yes!
-
I heard something about it, but it seems to be in the future. But it is about time!
-
Nothing concrete yet about the sisters, just talk about models being redone (and looking awesome). So they're propably still quite a long way off.
-
Those are being redone too, by the way.
Grey knights will get redone I heard, maybe one Inquisitor codex?
-
Dude:P
You should sign up for the newsletter from GW
Grey knights are coming in April :P
-
Dude:P
You should sign up for the newsletter from GW
Grey knights are coming in April :P
:icon_redface:
-
Its okay :P
Just do 100 litanies of faith and you should be forgiven.
On a more 40k note:
I still claim that space wolves are the nastiest army out there.. My blood angels got pwned by them. Even though i was trying out the storm raven and new tactics.. but man.
-
Bah, space wolves can't compete with a nice ork army loaded with nobz. Everyone someone tries to claim close combat apache marines rule I have a little chuckle.
On that note, I just got my 13000 point of orks. Three more kans and one of the new deff dredd.
-
Stil, from what I hear here and there orks are not top dogs. They are good but they do not rule the tournaments like they used to.
-
Nor should there be. That is what I love about 40k. There are four armies that can vote for the to slit and do so consistently. You can't say orks aren't one of the best. You honestly can't claim anyone is our isn't one of the best. But you can't claim orks aren't the nastiest close combat army in the game.
-
Yes you can, you'd just probably be quite wrong.
I loved the early days of orks, everyone was still MEQ orientated, and the green tide annihilated their pitiful firepower in an instant.
-
Sure orks can be nasty, but Wolves are just so much better ... meh
-
The fun part is you're both quite biased.
Give up now?
-
Do you think any of them are likely to do that, Whitey? Philly never will until he personally have had his orkz pasted numerous times.
-
"Agree to disagree" isn't hard. :engel:
Of course PhillyT could just ban McKnight.
:engel:
-
:eusa_wall:
-
Since I am a WAAC man in real life, I am content to play Chaos Space Marines and let you runner ups squabble who has the cheesiest army in your gaming world. :closed-eyes:
-
Since I am a WAAC man in real life, I am content to play Chaos Space Marines and let you runner ups squabble who has the cheesiest army in your gaming world. :closed-eyes:
:icon_lol:
I approve.
-
I never claimed ork were better than space wolves. I said nobody can make a nastier cc army. In a game with tanks, that may not man much. Of course wth the errata on dethrollas, tanks aren't much of a problem.
I don't think there is a single killer army.
-
So do I. By the way I am restarting Sisters of Battle. My WAAC plans for my life have yet to unfold but I have no need for it destroying my game. And regardless of my struggle with jobs and low income I still have the biggest choppa at home.
-
Good point. Having large weapons at home is important.
-
And regardless of my struggle with jobs and low income I still have the biggest choppa at home.
Maybe - - - maybe not :icon_twisted: your friendly neighborhood medieval arms collector who actually has a budget.
I almost certainly have more armour and a wider variety.
-
And here I thought Imperial guard are the masters of close combat in 40k.
-
Lol!
Not by a long shot :P
But they are superb
-
Have you seen any pics of my bredische yet, Huren? :engel:
You certainly got more armour at home, and probably variety... But you only need one good axe to do some proper crumpin!
-
I think one glock is enough for that.
-
New toys!
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=13700028a (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=13700028a)
-
The bird is still ugly, but those dreads looks really nice.
I mean really nice...
-
Yep i totally agree with you!
I want one of each...
-
They're just dreads. They all look the same only with varying amounts of bling.
And yes, those aircraft things are hideous and retarded.
1) They look like bricks.
2) Are those multi-meltas in the front? Short range weapons on a flying vehicle?
3) Bolter sponsons. Doesn't look like they're able to aim up or down. On a flying vehicle.
4) And THEN a huge bulky turret on top? Who designed these things?
-
What galls me most is that it's seriously overarmed for a vehicle for that size which is supposed to carry troops, too.
-
Wrath, and Ire and Fury dislike your mocking and will ....kill you.
I alway like how the mightiest warriors of the galaxy (at least cc) are raging lunatics. Instead of guys that keep cool and do their drills.
Really cool is the magna grapple.....reminds me of magna doodle.
-
Games wise, the multimelta is awesome, because the plane comes close..
and Gnu, it is a gunship afterall ;) But the bloodstrike missiles are only oneshot so doesnt really have that much firepower as soon as they have been used.
and the sponsons cost extra. making the price close to a landraider's.
-
and Gnu, it is a gunship afterall ;)
Really? I thought it was supposed to be a dropship... Well, in that case, disregard that statement and make it "quite overarmed". :wink:
-
Much better :P
-
Eldar!
I recently aquired an Eldar army so I can learn to play the game better and hence teach the kids who come into the shop wanting to learn (not a single staff member here knows 40k and I'm the only one who knows fantasy...lol).
Anyway the army I got was this:
Autarch on bike
Farseer on bike
20 bikes with 4 cannons and 4 guys with swords which I can only think are meant to be warlocks....
10 Guardians with star cannon
9 Dire Avengers
6 vypers with star cannons
5 Silver lances
Wave Serpent
3 Falcons
at home I have 5 of the old Howling Banshees and 10 more Dire Avengers. I'm trying to think about how I want to expand and continue this army. any suggestions?
-
Get some terminators with storm shields....I heard they work wonders in any army.
-
:icon_lol:
The Stormraven is the HIND of the 40k world. It's a ridiculously heavy armed troop carrier. And is ugly as sin.
I love the HIND. I kinda like the Stormraven.
-
I think the chinook is uglier than the Hind still. It is like a flying banana.
-
But the HIND have some serious hardware that the Chinnock does not have. This puts the HIND in the same category as the A-10 Thunderbolt, Dead ugly sexy. And the HIND can land troops aswell as provide their fire support.
The hind is, in truth, a flying APC, or rather a flying IFV. It can carry the infantry to the combat and protect it while it is doing it.
In the west, some Blackhawk version is what come closest to the mighty HIND. But still the concept of the HIND deliver more firepower. The west have mostly focused on helicopters doing a specific task. Apaches attacks all and sundry, Eurocopter Tiger specialize more in armed recon and antitank, the Rovilaak does the same. Blackhawk is mostly for transporting stuff and maybe provide some firecover while inserting and extracting.
The Hind does it all. Most likely including recon since the russians main approach to recon besides specialized recon squads is recon in force.
What the HIND also can do is something akin to Airborne armoured assault! They charge straight into the enemy position with their cargo of soldiers, guns blazing.
-
...unless they get shot down with Stingers or Javelins or the rest.
-
Sure, but that goes for Apaches too. They have still to try that stunt and I wonder... I mean, the US were truly scared of the idea of having Apaches taking part in the NATO war on Serbia due to the serbs having plenty of their own SAM:s and not least plenty of forests and hills were good ol proper 40mm AA cannons could lurk.
Hence I tend to listen with selection when some US military fellow brag on about the invurnerable Apache. :icon_razz: It is mean, but there is just that much you can do to protect and armour a helicopter and keep it flying.
And still, the HIND is so much more Gung-Ho than anything the US got. Besides the Marines new combined AFV/Assault landing craft. Charging the beaches guns blazing will make even this swede able to cry Hoohaa and whatnot. If I ever get myself a boat that is what I want. A boat that becomes a troop carrying light tank on shore!
-
Charging the beaches guns blazing will make even this swede able to cry Hoohaa
I bet you do that all the time.
-
Hmm, not quite sold on the new models...just seems to be something lacking on it and just can't put my finger on it. I personally think the Librarian Dread should of been holding the force weapon instead of it shoved into a slot.
Got a feeling we will be seeing a few conversions tho.
-
You devils. This thread has forced me to make a trip to Games Workshop Leeds to buy a box of Tactical Marines. Imperial Fists it is then....
-
You devils. This thread has forced me to make a trip to Games Workshop Leeds to buy a box of Tactical Marines. Imperial Fists it is then....
Typical addict's excuse.
-
My son, the proud fan of the Fistimarines applauds your desicion, Irresistible force. By they way, Lysander is a beast!
-
Im about 2 hours into painting the test piece and I still haven't managed to move past the yellow. This could be a bit of a slog...
-
And here's the proof. Two hours, one colour and it still looks like shizzle! Should have chose Black Templars...
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/IMG_1092.jpg)
Dont worry chaps, I wont derail this thread with my Marines. Anyway, back to the Kislev commission. The end is in sight!
-
Man... I think the mini is nice.
-
I think it is nice too. :happy:
When you paint it to the level you find it good ,please post it, I would really like to see it :smile2:
-
Not only are blood angels my least valerie space marine army in fluff, the models pretty much all look like crap. Those flying things are cool though. If they have less than av13 I wouldn't field three. Typical gw bad army list. Against a handful off build it will do okay. Against decent setups junk.
As for dreds, they all look similar enough not to cause any real reaction with me.
-
With me, I don't care that the Stormravens aren't the best selection, I love them.
After holding one in my hands and making "pew pew" noises at people (the store manager did it to me first!), I love it.
It's also rumoured that they will be made available for all Chapters. Interesting if so.
Last night in Cardiff I saw a gorgeous ork army. Humvees that were actually so well converted they looked like GW models, a flying battlewagon which was part battlewagon kit, part tau, part massive chinhook copter blades.
There was also another nice ork army, which had the most adorable Battlewagon I've ever seen. Imagine the front compartment of the BW on it's own, on the tank tracks, with a Death rolla. So cute. It then had a Trailer using the rear half and the wheels to carry da boyz.
-
The Stormraven is growing on me as well. After I've seen some more angles of it I think it doesn't at all look as bad as I first thought.
-
Have you guys read the description for these new products?
"The Furioso Dreadnought is effectively a mobile infantry blender that will make your opponents want to check your codex with disbelief."
Read the blurb about the Storm Raven (find both on the GW pre order section, at the bottom).
Awesome! :icon_lol:
-
Also relevant:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/6/3/109955_md-Battle%20Fortress%2C%20Conversion%2C%20Land%20Raider%2C%20Marine%20Abuse%2C%20Orks%2C%20Super-heavy.jpg)
This game needs MOAR land battleships.
-
Wow I see two landraiders, at least one battle wagon, a baneblade bitz, and stompas parts. Amazing!
What is the av on that storm raven and is it only released for blood angels?
-
AV12 on all sides, fast skimmer.
Currently, only Blood Angels.
Apparently soon for all.
Rumours say Grey Knights get it too.
Considering it comes with Grey Knights parts... yeah.
-
I might buy one for black templar but I am currently running two landraiders and an annihilator.
-
I'd wait for the "apparently" to happen.
It's been 100% sure fact something will happen, and then bam, it doesn't.
:-D
-
I just purchased the kans and deff dredd models. No need for space marines for now! I have 6000 points of templar unpainted already!
-
Have you seen any pics of my bredische yet, Huren? :engel:
You certainly got more armour at home, and probably variety... But you only need one good axe to do some proper crumpin!
I had forgotten your berdiche, silly me, that is definately a big honkin axe, bet I can move and change direction with my arms and armour built Dane axe faster than you and still swing it hard enough (under 5 pounds and as long in the haft as your berdishe) . We'll have to do a Legolas and Gimli fight count one day are you still fighting with the swedish version of the Kongshirden group? oh and that reminds me I was going to show all of you someyou tube videos I found recently.
-
Wait, nothing is certain. Its only rumours (or more like wishfull thinking) that it will be available to all chapters.
Grey knights is a definite yes, why else would they make their symbols on it?
-
Grey Knights version:
(http://i52.tinypic.com/rmi6aq.jpg)
-
I must admit that I like that Stromraven or whatever, even though I am not a space marine fun .
-
Shit,.... now i have to buy it...
-
No, Huren, I have sadly not been fighting lately. My social skills just ostrachize me from all these thightarsed groups. I know I can come across as troublesome, wanting to debate systems and not accepting them as they are. Might pick up HEMA instead, but I mostly want to do rapier with SCA, or is it called renaissance fencing. Bought such a lovely blade, blunted for safety, to wear with my coming newer and flashier costume of about 1628. This is the blade:
http://www.gavelins.com/sword/mo1-46.html
A late 16th-early 17th century sword, and not really a rapier. The correct term seems to be the german "reitschwert" and it was a popular style worn on many portraits of late renaissance generals.
So now I need someone to fence with. And in our 17th century society, another crazy bastard have become members who thinks that is a honking good idea! That way we would be able to show the spectators cold steel duelling at least.
But I would like to do SCA renaissance fencing. Shame it will take some time to get that in order here. My mates in the local SCA society have now made a neat new fighting room, but since the heavy fighters are the ones who are seen as cool, they take center stage. And I lack the ability to get a legal armour for that... :icon_cry: I mean, 3mm steel in the helmet! Heavy as hell and not historically correct. Seems most helmets did not have more than 1mm thickness! But then, I believe that the fact that a deforming helmet absorbs lot of the impact. Dunno...
-
Okay you two, get a room.
-
Youīre just envious, Philly! :icon_razz:
By the way, those 6000 unpainted templars sound fun! I am all for a more easily painted army now...
-
I just found 5 chaos chosen (Dark angels renegades), 8 Berserkers, 10 raptors and 6 converted Chaos space marines, in a small box, in a drawer.
Most of them are half painted too!
-
God having a baby makes painting difficult. I assembled the kans and dredd in one night but have been painting the dredd for three! It is a five hour job that is constantly interrupted.
-
Well, I can only say the same. However, I never expect to pain anything in one go.
-
Finished my deff dredd today. Looks pretty good. I am satisfied.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/Dredd3.jpg)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/dredd2.jpg)
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/Dredd1.jpg)
Phil
-
Very nice paintjob, but surely I can't be the only one who doesn't like the new Deff Dread model????
I'mma jump on the photo bandwagon with the latest bit of my new project.....
(http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii355/Eight-Warhammer/DSCF1176.jpg)
-
Cool. What chapter is it, or a new one you made up?
-
I bought the new kit because I love the model. I have one new one and one old one. The new one is much better.
Phil
-
I bought the new kit because I love the model. I have one new one and one old one. The new one is much better.
Fair enough.
Seems too cartoony for me though.
What chapter is it, or a new one you made up?
DIY chapter. Probably something like Steel Vengeance. They're not gonna be like codex marines.
-
Looks cool, Philly! But maybe you could work a little on the blood? It doesnt look that convincing. The rest is cool!
-
I would love to cover him in blood, but I am often told I put too much on him.
As a butcher who uses meat saws, the amount of blood present isn't far from the truth.
Phil
-
No no i dont mean the amount!
I mean the colouring. It looks unconvincing. Only looks like its one colour :O
-
Oh I see. No, three layers and an ink wash. Doesnt hold up in the picture because it is shiny and gets blasted in the flash.
-
Oooh sounds nice ;)
Hmm never use flash when taking pictures of minis :O Dont you have a desklamp to point at it?
-
I do but I took those with my phone so they aren't quite up to snuff!
The differences are pretty subtle but there is some differences in the shading. Mostly just looks wet and bloody!
I am currently turning a land raider into a battlewagon. I want to run a Speed Kills Ork list at the set of tournaments that are taking place this year.
-
The differences are pretty subtle but there is some differences in the shading. Mostly just looks wet and bloody!
That was what I was expecting! :P
Im looking forward to seeing the landwagon :P
-
Using battlewagon, trukk, and stompa bits to modify it. Should be fun! I was going to buy another wagon, but I decided that I would convert a spare landraider I have and will grab a Land raider crusader to replace it in my Black Templar army.
Phil
-
Make a landship dammit! Landships are awesome.
-
Landship... explain!
Pil
-
I posted a picture of one earlier in the thread. The one made out of multiple battlewagons, landraiders, etc.
Basically, massive ork vehicle which is basically a mobile fortress/aircraftcarrier etc.
Edit: and this beauty:
(http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2010/8/24/133054_md-Conversion,%20Land,%20Orks,%20Ship.jpg)
-
That one is awesome!
I saw the earlier one. That one rocked too.
-
Dear Gork (or Mork) all mighty !!!! :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek:
DAT FING IZ 'UGE !!!!!
-
Anyone who knows anything about Necrons...
What is a good size for a unit of Necron Warriors?
-
10 plus. They need mms to ensure get back up. Really no army should have less than 50 on the board.
-
I've been scouring the internet and oddly enough, everyone seems to be saying "Minimum 2*10" for warriors.
It seems to be maxing on destroyers of various types, with some wraiths or immortals (but not both) sprinkled in.
And of course Das Monolith.
-
Well a hand full of templates will make that army evaporate. To much of that going around now!
-
DANG !!!! I am so starting a grey knights army when I get the time :icon_eek:
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1710176a_99120107003_DreadKnight01_873x627.jpg
-
Not another one!
-
No fear, Philly!
I was hooked by them greys too, but now I have felt drawn to the Black Templars instead. More batshit crazy they are and kinda perfect for a 40K version of Mathi Alfblut.
-
DANG !!!! I am so starting a grey knights army when I get the time :icon_eek:
My view is that that thing is one of the worst models that GW has produced for years. It looks as though it has come from a bad cartoon, and it's a completely ridiculous concept. If anyone uses that against me, I have this feeling that I'm going to struggle to keep a straight face.
-
I knew I liked you.
-
DANG !!!! I am so starting a grey knights army when I get the time :icon_eek:
My view is that that thing is one of the worst models that GW has produced for years. It looks as though it has come from a bad cartoon, and it's a completely ridiculous concept. If anyone uses that against me, I have this feeling that I'm going to struggle to keep a straight face.
It is personal preference.
I am not a sculptor so all the GW models (at least most of them) seem just fine to me. It has a weird consept though. :icon_confused:
I must agree that it looks kindy stupid compare to other walker styled models, like dreadnoughts, but come on..... It is a huge robot-hammer wielding-ultra gun using-baby carrying monster, taller than a deamon prince .
Also I am not starting Grey knights for this, I really like the new range of models, and a small 2000 points army is what I need to back my 8000 point Imperial guard force on the next apocalipses :icon_cool:
-
I think you will hard pressed to find more than a few people who will say the love it. You will not have a problem finding someone who hates it. Many will just not care.
That isn't a good sign for a model.
-
I love it because it's so utterly stupid.
Why is this wrong Philly, why?
-
It is ugly, maybe?
Give me a proper Dreadnought any day.
-
I love it because it's so utterly stupid.
Why is this wrong Philly, why?
If you love it for being horrible then there is nothing at all wrong with that.
-
Awesome. I think it's terrible, ridiculous, and I love it.
I love ridiculous things.
-
I think that we all get that you dont like it, Philly xD
-
It is personal preference.
Naturally :-). I just think that it makes a laughing stock of the Grey Knights to be honest. Quite how they can be taken seriously with that 'thing' on the field remains to be seen, but intial impressions seem mixed to say the least.
-
... but intial impressions seem mixed to say the least.
On Warseer. And with Phil. Well, at least one that I can take seriously.
:-D
-
So, um, which of GW's sculpters have been smoking George Lucas "magical" pipe? :icon_confused:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440160a&prodId=prod1140066a
-
Gonna play with the new GK tonight :D
My list:
1500pts
HQ:
Grandmaster 175 205
psycostroke grenades +15
master&digital +10
blind grenades +5
Ordo malleus 25 31pts
2 servo skulls +6pts
Elites:
Warband 146pts
3 servitors w/ plasmacannon +60
1 crusader +15
4 warrior acolytes + 16
Chimera +55
Troops:
10 GK strike squad 200 250pts
- justicar har daemonhammer 10
- psybolts +20
- 2 psycannons +20
10 termies 400 500pts
2 psycannonc + 50
-2 daemon hammer mastercrafted +5
-2 sword
-4 halberds (2 psycannons)
- banner +25
- warding stave +20
Heavy:
Purgation squad 5 mand 100pts 180pts
4 psycannons.
Dreadknight 130 185pts
Greatsword +25
Heavy incinie +30
-
Looks nice, although the lack of transports does bother me a bit. Still, a fair amount of firepower. I suppose the GM will join the Termies with the Brotherhood banner?
Do the servo skulls help with deepstrike? If so, I could see the Termies doing that. And - aaah! Grand Strategy for the GKSS? What do they get? Scout?
-
I just joined the termies together in one unit instead. Now i can combat squad the psycannons to one squad and the CC stuff to the other. THe GM will join the CC squad.
I really dont know about the grand strategy. I was thinking either, troops on the purgation squad, but that would probably limit their already short range if they had to hug an objective.
Maybe scout the strike squad and have them outflank? Counter attack would also be nice.
I dont think the GK will need transports, since im going defensive, they just need to fire of alot of rounds
Servo skulls aid friendly deepstrike and blast weapons (hello plasma cannons). I just dont know where to place them? They die if the enemy comes within 6".
I would actually prefer to have everything on the table when i start. But i dont know. Maybe it would be nice to come down with deepstrike.
Im going to play BA and i expect 2 dreads and 2 baals at least.
-
Going defensive could be a problem generally as all your fire is rather short ranged (psicannons have only 24" range, right?), although it should work fine vs. Blood Angels.
for an all comers list I would consider how I can get in the enemies face fast, since long range shooting wars will not be the strong side of an army with few models, few invulnerable saves and medium ranged shooting focus.
-
What is a psycannons strength? Because I am not sure how you would stop my 4 battle wagon army. Low on anti vehicle. The other issue is the 24 inch range.
-
Because I am not sure how you would stop my 4 battle wagon army.
I suspect by playing someone instead, who understands that measuring pants' bulges isn't done by a game of 40k...
:icon_wink:
-
What is a psycannons strength? Because I am not sure how you would stop my 4 battle wagon army. Low on anti vehicle. The other issue is the 24 inch range.
S7 AP4 rending. Either heavy 4 or assault 2.
Do the math - it actually has a much better chance of getting results against AV14 than a lascannon.
-
Or simply point to Shadowlords reply. It contains the answer needed. No need to constantly powergame to play good 40K. :icon_razz:
Anyway, read some fun stuff on BoLS. Tau may be on the horizon, and it makes my xenowibes grow stronger. And there will be squats... :icon_cool:
-
Xenoweibs? :mellow:
-
And there will be squats... :icon_cool:
Where did you read that? Are Forge World making them?
-
Forge World? They will do squat.
*ducks*
Edit: Two silly posts in a row. I think I'm overdoing it.
-
Jesus. A pun worthy of Midaski.
-
And there will be squats... :icon_cool:
Where did you read that? Are Forge World making them?
No they will be in the new Tau book according to rumours.
-
That could actually make sense, story-wise.
-
I suspect by playing someone instead, who understands that measuring pants' bulges isn't done by a game of 40k...
Well I am asking because that is sort of what I do when I make a list. I am curious as to how the army might deal with a heavy vehicle. Doesn't the Dreadkniht mount a heavy version?
As for the laser cannon thing, doesn't the psycannon only have a 24" range? The nice thing about laser cannon is the nice range.
Phil
-
Okay im back home!
Plans changed and I got up against an IG player instead so the maximum number of players could play.
Anyways to sum up. I lost with one objective.
Reason:
I outflanked with my strike squad. They came in late and on the wrong side. It was a risk and i wont take it again.
My opponent played a very mild army with straken and some ogryns and not alot of tanks or stuff. It was nice. He also went offensive which was perfect.
The dreadknight was easily killed by his basilisk (only arty tank) and some 3 autocannons and 3 lascannons. It died in turn 3. Even in cover. But the heavy incinie was nice!
The purgation squad and 4 psycannons... and their 16 shots a turn.... did nothing else than shake and stun a chimera. Unlucky maybe. But they did make some veterans flee!
I also forgot the bonus from the brotherhood banner... :eusa_wall: doh.
Aldaris is totally right about the shooting war. It cant be won.
The grandmaster was awesome. I forgot the psychotroke grenades in his first assault but in the second where he singlehandedly charged a small IG squad with commissar, it really rocked. I rolled a 6 so they had to take an I test or attack each other. Unfortunately, the grandmaster failed his armour saves and died. But damn those nades are staying in the list.
Now to answer phillys question.
The list wont be able to handle the battlewagons. Im not even sure how you are going to fit 4 of them into a 1500pts game? BUt! There are lots of tricks to deal with the passengers.
The Dreadknight is also a good bet. 3 attacks with S7 with reroll to hit and armour pen + monsterous creature is pretty good. If the target hasnt moved 12 ;.
My early estimate of the army:
Its balanced. Sure there are alot of nice goodies and weapons. But they all cost and the army is already expensive. It seems fairly balanced between cost and efficiency. The army seems hyped by the internet of the good things but people forget that you have to make choices of what to bring in the army. And it still suffers from its minimal numbers!
Im still not entirely sure if i would have preferred more strike squads over the termies.
-
@ Phil: It is, but Grey Knights are a low model count elite army with force weapons even on basic troopers - you wouldn't want to use them sitting back and having an artillery duel anyway. And the Psicannon is really quite good at AT - about 3 of the 4 shots should hit, giving an almost even chance of a 6 and thus automatically glancing AV14 even on a rending roll of 1.
Besides, there's always the Vindicare assassin. Turbo Penetrator rounds have sniper rules with 4d6 penetration roll and AP1. And they're not limited to 1 shot per special ammo type anymore.
And if that doesn't work - you can have as many thunderhammers as you like. And there are some melta/mm carriers as well.
:-D
-
As far as the Battlewagon list:
My main list runs 3 wagons with 19 shootas and PK nob in 2 and 20 shootas with PK nob n the thrid. A trukk of choppa boyz with PK nob and two units of 8 lootas. Two big meks with kustom orce fields sit in the two units of 19 boyz.
What isthe basic cost on the grey knight squad? Having them all having power weapons is nasty!
I agree about the psycannon. That is actually a nasty weapon. I love my autocannons, and they are just as good and are readily available in the army.
Phil
-
What isthe basic cost on the grey knight squad? Having them all having power weapons is nasty!
Basic Grey Knight Strike Squad (9 Troopers and a Sarge) costs 40 Empire halberdiers. And they have Force swords as standard, not just power. Meaning that when they chose to use their Psy for that, every wound they cause is instant death.
Individual troopers can upgrade to Halberds (+2 I), Demonhammers (like a TH), Falchions (like Lightning claws) or a Warding Stave (2++ in cc for a hefty price); although the last option is limited to one per squad as far as I know. All of those are Force weapons with Demonbane.
-
Actually, the falchions only add +1 attack. No reroll.
Thats not a bad list Philly, do the battlewagons have some good guns? Im not sure that i would fear it that much.
There arent that many units in the army, so the GK should be able to contain it.
Purifiers would be excellent to take the charge from the orks, so would the psychotroke grenades or rad grenades. Oh and Defensive grenades ;)
The lootas could proove troublesome with their good range and firepower.
I havent thought of any unit in the GK that can handle arty units that sit around in the back.
And what is up with the site? XD Its wierd.
-
Against grey knights I would probably pull within 18 and drop 120 s4 shoota rounds off a turn. One a unit was softened some I would assault.
Wagons have two big shoota and a deff rolla.
That unit seems really cheap for all having force weapons...
-
That unit seems really cheap for all having force weapons...
It balances out I think - they have been reduced to normal Marine stats to compensate. They do have Psi powers (one that can mess with deepstrikers in their vicinity, and one that can raise their S by +1), but they can only use one of those OR their force weapons per turn. Plus if they take a special or heavy, they trade in their Stormbolter AND their force weapon.
And "really cheap" is relative - a unit of 10 with 2 Psicannons, Psybolt ammo (which raises the S of their Stormbolters to 5) and a Mastercrafted Demonhammer for the Justicar, riding in a Rhino costs almost 300 points. A good unit and an awesome troops choice to be sure, but you're not going to have a big army.
@ McKnight: for dealing with arty stuff in the backfield I would consider orbital strikes, Deepstrikers or flankers.
-
Sounds like a good strategy. Im used to my ork friend just plunging into combat right away. But your tactic scares my grey knights, dont know how to beat that, other than trying to open your cans.
Nah the price is okay philly. Its actually rare (in my subjective opinion) that force weapons are useful! There arent that many multiwound models. And you would also have to choose between +1 strength or force weapon psychic thingy each assault phase.
Im thinking about dropping the henchmen warband and adding a vindicare assasin instead.
-
Why not a Callidus? (are there new rules for the Assassins?)
-
My prespective is skewed. In my parts power weapons are king since I have 3 marine, 2 chaos marines, 2 necrons, a tyranid, an ig, and me. Lots of 3 plus.
-
power weapons are no force weapons are no might weapons are no strength weapons are no ...........
-
Wait, force weapons are power weapons though.
-
How should I know I only play IG nothing in the game ever reaches close combat..the power swords/force weapons are just for shaking around and pointing where my bodybags should go.
http://www.monkeyboobies.com/gallery/d/219-1/drive+me+closer_+i+want+to+hit+them+with+my+sword.png (http://www.monkeyboobies.com/gallery/d/219-1/drive+me+closer_+i+want+to+hit+them+with+my+sword.png)
-
I lost a nob to a primaris once!
-
What happened to the primaris after this?
-
Why not a Callidus? (are there new rules for the Assassins?)
The Callidus and vindicare are both pretty damn awesome!
But the callidus only adds more of what i already have, anti infantry stuff. The vindicare is a force multiplier. It can pick out commissars, nobs and best of all, it is fearsome in its antitank properties which is what I miss in the army.
Yea Philly, I have the same problem here in Denmark. Atleast 75% of the players in my city plays some kind of power armour army. Kinda annoying, but I cant complain since i have two myself :P
-
What happened to the primaris after this?
He did become a fine red mist...
-
So um, one of my buddies has offered to sell his Necron army to me.
I know it is weak in the game but I love their background and models, and it is fully painted to a high standard with a price tag roughly 40% of the retail price.
My CSM are not getting any love from me because I hate painting them, and this Necron force is huge n' cheap.
Should I?
-
Yes, you should.
As a fellow CSM player... yes..
-
Buy it then sell it to me!
-
Aren't Necrons due a book soon? They might be playable in a few months. If you like the look of the army and can afford it (which of course you can) then go for it!
-
They do okay now. It is tough stopping a player who just spams necron warriors and monoliths.
-
Come on, there can be some really fun Necron lists. The one I really want is:
3 monoliths
5 x 12 necrons
2 x 5 scarabs with disruption fields
1 lord with war scyth, resurection orb, and phase shifter
1 nightbringer
-
Come on, there can be some really fun Necron lists. The one I really want is:
That list is nasty even for Necrons who otherwise suffer from the Tomb King syndrome - Aka They suck!
No PhillyT, I do not want to sell it to you because I do not want to be responsible for you ending up alone without any friends. :icon_wink:
He has two Monoliths, both painted to a superb standard - I don't even know why I hesitate really - must be something that has to do with the fact that I collecting fantasy greenskins atm. But what the hell, it is really cool and already painted so I can start gaming with it right away when all my strength has returned (damn cell extraction OD chemo dose). And put a nail in the coffin for my CSM (for now).
-
I bought them! :closed-eyes:
Pics up this weekend.
-
I love the monolith shell game!
-
Sounds like you did a bargain there, Shadowlord! My son has talked about them Necrons too, and of late borrowed my orks to play some solitare.
I get nothing thone, though. Nothing... I love them orksies but at the same time I get nothing done at the moment. I am pondering asking him if he would like to administer them for me for a period, paint some if he likes too. Dunno... maybe I could begin something anew. My Sisters of Battle for example. Paint more Empire...
-
Had a quick price check and it was more 50% of the retail price, not 40% as he claimed, painted to an excellent standard.
I got ripped... :icon_mrgreen:
-
Shame about the Chaos marines :Ohmy:
But good luck with the necrons! Pray that you dont end up against the Guard :P
-
Hold them in reserve. Separate one monolith, deploy the other two. Bring the necron in by teleporting them in the monolith. It isn't that bad.
-
The old evil robots has come home to papa... :closed-eyes:
Here's what I got painted:
2 lords on foot
1 lord on those hovering thingie (awesome conversion)
60 warriors
17 swarms
9 wraiths
5 destroyers
9 pariahs
10 flayed ones
6 immortals
3 heavy destroyers
3 Tomb spyders
2 monoliths
Nightbringer
Deciever
Plus this yet to be painted: 3 destroyers, 1 monolith, 1 pylon, and a box with warriors.
-
Awesome! Now sell them to me because you love me. I have dirty boxer briefs from last summer.
-
Awesome! Now sell them to me because you love me. I have dirty boxer briefs from last summer.
Tempting as this may sound, to finally be able to play 40k with a rather large selection of models and units beats it. :happy:
-
Foiled! Okay stud, you deserve it!
-
Dammit you made me do it. I just bought a necron army.
1 monolith
6 destroyers
56 necrons
6 swarms
1 necron lord with resurection orb
$50
I then traded garbage tau I had for
6 destroyers
36 necrons
1 necron lord with resurection orb
6 swarms
1 wraith
1 Tomb spider
I then bought:
2 monolith
1 night bringer
1 wraith
$136.
So a grand total of $186 for a pile of necrons.
The haul isn't as good in choices as Shadowlord's, and it doesn't have that sweet pylon, but it does have exactly what I want in my army.
And I have my Swedish love muffin to blame.
Phil
-
And I have my Swedish love muffin to blame.
Damn straight! :closed-eyes:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Other/newyork.jpg)
Cool choice - after all they are the only real evil guys of 40k.
My pics in 30 mins.
-
...on par with the Locusts, of course. I like them both for this very reason.
Looking forward to pictures from both of you (that is, of your armies)!
-
...on par with the Locusts, of course. I like them both for this very reason.
Looking forward to pictures from both of you (that is, of your armies)!
Necrons are hateful and evil, nids are hungry - big diff - though the end result is pretty much the same. :icon_cool:
Pics of Phil's and my RPG session from last week called "Only fie dollah!" sent through PM.
-
Crappy pic but the theme is there, if you look in the crystal you see the deciever.
Several minis have small spyders on their bodies, there are things crawling all over the place, cool lightning effects, and so on.
I will have to repaint all the gauss green to match the cool blueish light on the rest of the stuff.
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Necrons/003.jpg)
Here is the rest (two crappy pics of everything):
http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Necrons/
-
I cant really make out the other stuff but that Monolith is the shizzle. Good purchase :::cheers:::
-
Is that an unpainted destroyer I spy?
Send in the collection agencies! Destroy him!
-
The first pic is awesome! But the rest really doesnt look anything like it. So now I wonder which one is the closest to reality :P
-
A pro would have noticed that the pic here is without flash, which means?
A) Better quality
B) Dong increase
C) Gnabba-Gnabba
Chill, I will take better pics on minis later on when I pic 'em up for battle in a week. :icon_cool:
-
You dont need to be a pro to know that flash sucks donkey balls when taking shots of minis ;)
-
Wow I knew Flash was fast but I never saw him as a perverted photographer...
-
And he really shouldn't tell McKnight about preferences like those.
-
Flash is so dirty.
-
Now, those necrons seems like quite a steal! Now get some games and take awesome snapshots about your Shadowlord scything down his enemies. :icon_mrgreen:
By the way, what happened you your spiky boys? Sold them?
-
Hahahhahahah xD
Touché :P
-
By the way, what happened you your spiky boys? Sold them?
No but I am getting rid of all the BL stuff to get more greenskins.
If I ever start again, hopefully I do, then Word Bearers will kick my brush.
-
Really? I like Black Legion. When I want to do games beyond my standard list of 1500-1700 of death guard, I expand using Black Legion.
I can't believe you're getting rid of them. Who else will I have on the side of Chaos? (not like Aldaris counts)
-
Um, I still have tons of CSM that are plastic - they won't redo those.
They a just not painted.
-
No but I am getting rid of all the BL stuff to get more greenskins.
If I ever start again, hopefully I do, then Word Bearers will kick my brush.
If you need a buyer for the painted stuff, I would definitely be interested.
-
Um, I still have tons of CSM that are plastic - they won't redo those.
They a just not painted.
Ah right. That's alright then, you're let off. :engel:
Still... remember, Chaos is #1.
And if you're getting rid of that Black Legion Daemon prince... :wink:
-
Sorry chaps, the stuff has been promised to someone else for green.
Green that screams WAAAGH!
-
I will have to repaint all the gauss green to match the cool blueish light on the rest of the stuff.
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Necrons/003.jpg)
You realize you can buy after-market blue or red rods, right? Takes some searching, but better than painting.
-
That pic of PhillyT and SL is more disturbing than goatse and 2 girls 1 cup combined.
-
Looks promising...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvymPlPaXDE
-
It actually does!:O
When is it out?
-
This year hopefully.
Definately getting it on Xbox360, and hopefully many people I know will too!
Because it apparently is a co-op game! I -love- co-op games!
-
it looks like gears of war.
I need to buy a wireless thingy :(
-
it looks like gears of war.
I need to buy a wireless thingy :(
I was wondering why I still never saw you on! I'm starting to feel I should just play the last Borderland expansion by myself! :roll:
And Gears of War isn't a bad game, and with 40k attached... fun! GoW was actually one of the funnest games I've played co-op.
-
Hopefully this is the right thread to get some advice!
I need some help assembling an 1850 chaos army for chaos vs marines this weekend. I have the following rather large collection to pick from.
1 terminator lord with pair of lightning claws [slaanesh]
1 termnator lord of tzeench with sword and combimelta [tzeench]
1 sorceror lord with terminator armour combi melta and force sword [slaanesh]
1 sorceror lord, force staff [ahriman model]
1 chaos lord [kharn model]
1 daemon princess model [Reaper Sophie model] with wings
1 daemon prince [old metal model]
1 converted lightning claw jetpack model
2 rhinos
2 predators
1 landraider
1vindicator
1 defiler
3 dreadnaughts. one with a pair of combat arms, one with plasmacannon/combat weapon and one with twin lascannon and missile launcher
6 chosen, 3 with plasmaguns, one with power sword, one with heavy bolter
11 terminators. 5 with pair of lightning claws, 1 heavy flamer chainfist, 1 reapercannon lightning claw, 3 with power weapons/combi bolter, 1 with power weapon combi melta
10 possessed [yeah cant see me using these!]
16 Khorne Beserkers
9 thousand sons inc sorcerer
7 plague marines
15 noise marines, assorted weapons. Only around 7 of these have sonic weapons.
50 or 60 approx. Normal marines with pretty much every heavy weapon, 4 of each special weapon, 1 of each Icon, lots of champion options. Can assemble havocs if I really want to.
10 Raptors
6 bikers, 2 with combi plasma
3 obliterators
3 chaos spawns
I think thats them all!
What I was planning is to go this route. Im guessing, as I dont have my book on me at work! All thoughts welcome.
Chaos lord of tzeench with 4 terminators deep striking.
Sorcerer lord of Slaanesh with some bodyguard unit using lash. Im open to suggestions for this squad
10 khorne bezerkers, in landraider
All my plague and thousand sons marines, to protect my objectives. Both hard to remove.
One of my dreadnaughts, probably the combat model, as it is least likely to kill my own men.
2-3 squads of normal marines. Rhinos if I can afford.
vindicator
-
it looks like gears of war.
I need to buy a wireless thingy :(
I was wondering why I still never saw you on! I'm starting to feel I should just play the last Borderland expansion by myself! :roll:
And Gears of War isn't a bad game, and with 40k attached... fun! GoW was actually one of the funnest games I've played co-op.
Well its my birthday quite soon, so I'll prob ask for a wireless thing, then we can do BL!
Yeh it looked fun to be fair.
Also, I quite enjoyed Fire Warrior!
It would be cool if you got bolt pistol and chainsword combo. for some melee action
-
From the looks of it you'll be able to do most things space marines do, jetpacks, melee weapons, heavy weapons. Hell in one trailer I saw a marine with an autocannon held like a heavy bolter ready to shoot down an ork flier.
And you enjoyed Fire Warrior did you? :engel:
The only good thing about that game in my opinion was the portrayal of boltguns, not as rapid firing submachineguns, but weapons which fired explosive rocket propelled bolts.
-
I liked Fire Warrior too... :unsure:
Space Marine does look quite good though.
-
I liked Fire Warrior.
Then again, I was about 13 at the time.
I also liked Ultramarines back then....
-
I liked Fire Warrior as well. Gameplay was generic but quite alright, graphics were good at the time, and it was 40k.
-
At the time you were only 10, of course you liked it.
-
That as well probably, but I'll have you know my taste in games was impeccable and honed even then.
-
The game will be out after the summer, and will make my ding-thing tingle with happiness.
The scene with the valkyre blasting is epic.
Yes I'm 40 and like smurfs.
-
Someone just posted these over on the warhammer forum. I like them.
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/demotivational-posters-orks.jpg)
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/hellokittydreadnought_600we.jpg)
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/2010-01-14-delight.jpg)
-
(http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv258/wallumc1/demotivational-posters-orks.jpg)
That Picachorc is awesome.
-
I like the Picastompa.
Don't like the other one.
-
I bought a few LE marines on ebay.
I also saw cool Ultra Marine doors, pads, and stuff on FW.
Help me to stay this madness... :Ohmy:
-
Didnt you just buy necrons?
-
Didnt you just buy necrons?
Your question confuses me. :icon_confused:
-
Its quite clear? :P
You just bought a pile of necrons. Dont start on marines? :P
-
Start Marines, Im doing Marines. Then start Chaos Dwarfs.
-
Blood angels is possibly the best mix of cool models versus deadllines on the table. Just today I could see IRL the sanguinary box junior is busy with. It is such an awesome kit! I 'm seriously thinking of buying one for myself, just to be able to paint it. I hope I'm not digressing this thread. :wink:
-
Have people seen this:
(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1720126a_99060107066_Jokaero_445x319.jpg)
They brought the techno-orangutans back?
?
?
?
-
Oh you squid, we have been talking about it fr quite sometime.
-
Well, I only just saw it.
I can't decide if it's goofy in a good way or in a bad way.
-
Few... tough to say. It was interesting, though I still think there were other places they could have gone to enliven the 40k universe.
-
I bet it looks pretty funny when there's a shiny grey knight army with a random orangutan in it... pulling heavy flamers and multimeltas out of who knows where.
-
I think they represent the effects of the stupidly named digital weapons. And I beleive the are part of the inquisitor's retinue.
-
On the GW site it says they can summon heavy weapons!
-
I think they represent the effects of the stupidly named digital weapons. And I beleive the are part of the inquisitor's retinue.
They are. No joining up with Grey Knights for poor Mr. Monkey. Unless a GK IC decides to lead the Monkey Squad for some reason.
On the GW site it says they can summon heavy weapons!
I think they extrude them from some cybernetic gimmick or other. They're basically techie idiot savants. Always building and tinkering with stuff, but not much use for anything else.
-
Hello, I am an orangutan. Now I am going to humiliatingly kill your tank with this multimelta.
-
Multimelta shot from a ring on his finger, no less.
The only redeeming feature is that it isn't as physically big as it appears in the preview, it's about 2/3 the height of a space marine. Apart from that it's a techno monkey and not much good can come from that. Unless you make a Moonwalkin MJ figure Inquisitor to go with it and call it Bubbles, but that's pushing it.
-
Too articulate. Its more like:
"Monkey burn metal box. ARROOOOOO!"
-
Start Marines, Im doing Marines. Then start Chaos Dwarfs.
No you are doing drag queen marines in that thread you just started.
Draaaaaaaag... Queeeeeeeeeenssssssssss....
I am thinking of getting some paint on some Empire stuff again but I am also thinking of BUYING marines.
And that Jokaero is horrible. :icon_cry:
-
Im not sure I understand. Is yellow standard colour for a drag queen? If so, Im off clothes shopping darling.
-
I like that they included the ape but it has nothing to do on the battlefield. It just makes the weapons for the inquisitor. It doesn't really go out and fight with them. Meh.
-
If I got one I think I'd call him Clyde ................... :engel:
-
Ha, that film is so old.
-
Im not sure I understand. Is yellow standard colour for a drag queen? If so, Im off clothes shopping darling.
No but that other wolf *shudder* marine with the knee boots is...
-
right turn clyde
-
Im not sure I understand. Is yellow standard colour for a drag queen? If so, Im off clothes shopping darling.
No but that other wolf *shudder* marine with the knee boots is...
I think its a good sculpt, Im pleased with it. You upset me.
-
That abomi... I mean model, upsets me more than casual sex.
But don't be sad, it is not you fault you like crappy models.
Order a few Jokaeros and you will feel better, promise.
:closed-eyes:
-
You are a bad man.
-
He is. He's also hard at work disproving Midaskis fanboi allegations.
:engel:
-
Nobody accuses of being a fanboi and gets away with it...
:closed-eyes:
-
Well, I only just saw it.
What were you doing all this time to have avoided seeing that eye sore? I was trying to avoid reading Grey Knight rumour information, yet still managed to see that overgrown ape weeks ago.
I can't decide if it's goofy in a good way or in a bad way.
It's an insult to The Librarian (no, not the Space Marine one :icon_wink:), and resurrects Roddy McDowall from the dead. Does that help you to form a conclusion :icon_smile:?
-
I have refound my love for the Air cavalry theme for Imperial guard.
Well, thats actually wrong, I never lost it. But various Vietnam war movies (mostly apocalypse now) have brought it into my interest again.
So now Im wondering how to make a decent list to resemble them. I have always gone mechanized because its safe and tough.
I was thinking some gound troops, some airborne veterans and company commander, and some heavy support to cover the troops (hydras, griffons and bassilisks). I like the idea of having artillery coming in to protect the infantry.
My main problem is the flyers. The valkyries are good to carry troops because of their s4 missiles, so are fast, but other than that, useless. Vendettas are awesome, but wont move much, so wont be used for troop transport.
Im also thinking Straken should be the leader of this Air Cav company. I've always like him.
My 1750pts draft looks like this:
HQ:
Company command: Straken, medic, 3 plasmas
Troops:
Infantry platoon: 1 cmd, 3 squads
Command: 4 meltas
1st squad: 1 grenade launcher, 1 Heavy bolter
2nd squad: Power weapon on sarge, Commissar with PW, nade launcher
3rd squad: Power weapon on sarge, nade launcher
1st Veteran squad. 6 shotguns, 3meltas
2nd Veteran squad. 3 plasmas, Sergeant Bastogne
Fast:
2 Valkyries. Missile pods.
1 Vendetta
1 Vendetta
Heavy:
2 Hydras
2 Griffons
1 Bassilisk
The plan would be:
The veteran squads mount in the two valkyries, while Straken the CO will mount in a vendetta. Using the scout move of the flyers, these guys should be able to get into a good position and the vendetta should still be able to fire all of its guns in turn 1.
Straken can then giver orders to the melta veterans and himself and then Bastogne can give orders to his own squad. This should be able to hurt stuff. Especially if the meltas and vendettas are able to open stuff.
If the enemy gets a charge of, then Straken will give the guys Counter attack.
The infantry is there to stay put and hold objectives and maybe support.
Fluffwise. Straken is this awesome colonel from Apocalypse now and Bastogne is this Master sergeant from We were soldiers :P
One thing I dont like is the lack of men.
-
Someone had to do this sooner or later and it turns out it was sooner. Someone has made a Dread Knight looted by Orks. Scroll down to the final few pictures for the model nearing completion.
http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85527 (http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=85527)
-
I saw an even better one somewhere :P
-
That air cavalry army would have some real issues if that first round of shooting fails. Those Vendetta will end up hanging out a little far and you are right, it is really lacking in infantry.
But if it starts rolling, that is a very, very nasty list at 1750!
Phil
-
Yes I know. It initially had a fourth inf squad, but it was cut out, together with 3 autocannons.
It doesnt have to be offensive. If I don't get the first turn, then the army will just be counter assaulting and on the defensive. It has enough shooting for that.
But I have to try it out! :O
-
Going to a 40K tournament the weekend after this one - 5 games, 2000 points. I'll take my CSM, and I am considering using this list:
(Just finshed my first session with an airbrush, painting up some Rhinos...)
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Demon Prince
- Wings
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Warptime
- Chaos Wind
- - - > 205
*************** 2 Elite ***************
5 Chaos Terminators
- 1 x Chain fist
- 2 x Kombi-Melter
- 2 x Kombi-Plasma
- 1 x Heavy Flamer
- - - > 190
6 Chosen Chaos Space Marines (outflanking)
- 1 x Power Fist
- 4 x Melter
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 208
*************** 4 Standard ***************
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melter
+ Aspiring Champion
- Kombi-Melter
- Power Fist
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 210
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Melter
+ Aspiring Champion
- Kombi-Melter
- Power Fist
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 210
7 Chaos Space Marines
- Icon of Chaos Glory
- Plasma Gun
+ Aspiring Champion
- Kombi-Plasma
- Power Weapon
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 205
8 Khorne Berzerkers (ride in Land Raider)
+ Skull Champion
- Power Fist
- - - > 208
*************** 3 Heavy Support ***************
Chaos Land Raider
- Demonic Posession
- - - > 240
Defiler
- Battlecannon
- Heavy Flamer
- DCCW
- - - > 150
5 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Plasma Guns
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 170
1996
-
I wish you luck and well I was on the receiving end of that list. I think you strike a good balanced army.
The list is not extremely powerful but you play it well so I hope you make it in the top 5.
-
It's not the exact same list I took against you - the raptors are gone and the lesser demons are gone, and for that I've got an extra squad of 7 marines with PF and double melta and the chosen. A good swap I think.
As for placements, well - the last two times I took my CSM to tournaments have been 3rd and 4th place respectively, so we'll see.
:-D
-
Lots of special weapons on tough marines, I like! :P
Tell us how it goes :)
-
And some pictures of these Aldaris :)
McKnight: You have a lot of armor, so that would counter the lack of men. Many marry men, isn't always good (they can't kill that much). The real hitting power with IG are the tanks and planes.
-
Oh yes i know, but i lack some tough armour, like the russes. I havent had the chance to try it yet, but I did get a 2000pts game in against a 1k pts deathwing and 1k pts og guard army.
That is some hefty stuff to go against with my grey knights. I was outgunned and outranged by the IG while the deathwing was assault termies, luckily not all with storm shields. It ended with a victory to them with one objective, a really exciting match!
-
What would you suggest to an ork player to use against a Grey Knights army?
-
Shoot purifiers.
Assault strike squads.
Hmm in general, they die as easily as marines, so shooting would bring them down easily.
One of their disadvantages lie in their small numbers. Also the strike squads' numbers of attacks, they are few and Orks should easily overcome them.
Termies have bad invul save in CC, they will most likely have halberds, so powerclaws are nice.
Grey knights lack long range firepower (Only the dakka dread is there) but will dessimate orks within 24". So tranports and long range support is essential. Soften them up and then engage.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlXxWmAKU30
-
Obvously they've heard of 40k in China.
The singing was less than desireable.
-
Now I remember why I donīt like to play Marines.....they look silly.
-
40K question!
Say you have a grey knights army with an inquisitor. Can you include imperial guard squads too? I think you used to be able to with the old army list, but I'm not sure about the new one.
-
40K question!
Say you have a grey knights army with an inquisitor. Can you include imperial guard squads too? I think you used to be able to with the old army list, but I'm not sure about the new one.
old rule book you can but only troops and maybe 1 from fast attack, 1 from elite, and one from HQ but you have to at least have a troops option. It works the other way around too using DH or WH as auxillarys for IG. As for the new rules, unfortuantley I havnt had a chance to look at the new army book and army builder recently screwed me out of making lists so I dont know.
-
40K question!
Say you have a grey knights army with an inquisitor. Can you include imperial guard squads too? I think you used to be able to with the old army list, but I'm not sure about the new one.
Kind of. If you take an Inquisitor you can buy him a squad of "Inquisitorial Retinue" - up to 12 dudes with IG Guardsmen stats for pretty cheap. The downside? They can't have the standard lasgun. An oversight perhaps, but there it is. They come standard with laspistol and ccw and can be given all kinds of guns - from stormtrooper AP3 lasguns over bolters to stormbolters.
They are limited to 1 squad per Inquisitor though - except if you take Coteaz, they become standard and you can take up to six.
-
Well that's no use at all.
I just want normal guardsmen! But not a full army of imperial guard, because I don't like the tanks and I don't want ten million miniatures.
Wait, you said they could have stormtrooper lasguns? That could work, since they look the same as normal lasguns.
-
yeah, make them grenadiers. :::cheers::: If you go guardsman as an army option you do not have to get tanks.
-
Valkyries = no Tanks
Valkyries = Aweseome = many
Veterans = Guardsmen with laserguns = half a million models
-
Valkyries are too big. I like the model, but I don't want to paint one.
I want grey knights and some imperial guardsmen. Also I like chimeras and rhinos, just not any of the proper tanks.
-
Its easier to paint when you use a spray can.
-
Valkyries are too big. I like the model, but I don't want to paint one.
I want grey knights and some imperial guardsmen. Also I like chimeras and rhinos, just not any of the proper tanks.
You can make a pretty powerful mechanized Infantry IG army Veterans driving around in Chimeras unloading and flame templating or plasma throwing or melta melting enemies. Also low on body count.
Did I mention I have .....8 Chimeras.
-
I only want about four guard squads at the very most (Steel legion, Mordian, Vostroyan, Valhallan). I don't like the old rip-off plastics.
Plus I demand rhinos. Rhinos are the coolest boxes in the world.
And I want teleporting grey knights. They are like space marines, except not lame.
-
Hmmm I think the grey knights are lame and love space wolves....guys plastering paper on their armour thinking it will help them against demons and ghosts (which donīt exist) pfffft...LAME.
So you might be stuck with demon hunters corteaz or four inquisitors with four chimera squads and 2 rhino grey knights squads.
I have about 40 steel legion models and never use them (nor paint them but that is business as usual) I played Aldaris two times and actually liked 40k but there was no occasion I could play another game yet.
-
So you might be stuck with demon hunters corteaz or four inquisitors with four chimera squads and 2 rhino grey knights squads.
Not possible. Inquisitors are HQ choices, so max two per army. If you want 4 guard squads the only way to go is Coteaz.
-
I have about 40 steel legion models and never use them
You could sell them to me!
-
Why buy used Steel Legionaries when you can have a new squad of ten with random special weapons for only Ģ21?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1490651&rootCatGameStyle= (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1490651&rootCatGameStyle=)
-
Because I would get them more cheaply from Fandir!
But I was planning to buy new ones from GW.
I am amused that the rubbish plastic models are now almost as expensive as the metal ones... Ģ18 for ten Cadians that cost Ģ15 for twenty a few years ago. No thanks!
It's a shame all the inquisitors look silly.
-
It is, because I have two spare which you will now never have.
-
Because I would get them more cheaply from Fandir!
But I was planning to buy new ones from GW.
I am amused that the rubbish plastic models are now almost as expensive as the metal ones... Ģ18 for ten Cadians
I didn't know that. Ģ21 for ten Valhallans suddenly doesn't look so bad.
-
yes! I was just thinking "those metal IG sqauds are actually cheap now".
The same price as gold swords. Ridiculous.
I quite like the plastic IG, but the metal squads are so much more characterful... Valhallans or Tallarnians(?) for me.
Or Vostroyans. I almost got a massive load of vostroyans for cheap when the person on ebay put them up for sale without any pictures and spelled vostroyans wrong, but they obviously realised and ended the auction 2 days before it was finished.
Rufus, are you actually going to do this then? I could try and paint up my IG army and we could maybe have a battle sometime! (although I do need the rulebook)
-
I handed all my IG stuff to my son, only keeping my Taniths and a squad of plastic that I had given rebreathers and stuff to look grenadiery. I planned to use them as Inquisitorial storm troopers to bolster my Sisters of Battle. Then comes the rumours about the Sisters becoming stand alone with no Inquisitors and stormtroopers. Gone was my idea, just as I had aquired some neat old metal minis in local shop.
However, I started to consider getting more of those old metal, since the shop had quite a few. Mordians, tallrans and even some metal cadians!
I am considering making an all veteran force made up of survivors from several regiments and pulled together by a badass lord commisar. They would be light infantry. Almost no tanks, just some sentinels and a lone russ commanded by an unorthodox tank ace called Oddball. A true all-imperial force.
-
It is, because I have two spare which you will now never have.
Oh, go on!
Rufus, are you actually going to do this then?
I want to. I've always liked the metal imperial guard models... but whether this will be like my orcs (large army painted quickly) or my dark elves (never even finished painting one unit of cold ones) I don't know.
I'm not sure how much I actually want to play 40K either. I've played it a couple of times with my nephew (he has blood angels and tau), and it was sort of fun.
I'll see if I can get anything cheap from ebay first.
I have just painted my old commisar Yarrick. It's so goofy.
-
Chinese 40k Cosplay
http://digitalwastrel.blogspot.com/2011/06/40k-musical-cosplay.html
-
Old news Old man.
Well I am kind of fond of my steel legion. I got the whole bunch of them with the 8 chimeras, 2 leman russ, 3 Sentinels and a hellhound for 80 . I already traded my (partially painted) Space wolves, oh I especially liked the venerable dreadnought, for the beautifully painted wood elf army of a friend (to complete my Fandir has all the good armies hidden away somewhere thingy).
I liked 40K I played with Eldar in that long ago edition where there were no real squads and you could order each individual soldier to go into overwatch and compared the weapon skill to see how many hits you score, I disliked Eldar then because everyone played them and decided for Space wolves (only guy playing space marines in the store at that time) then left it alone for a long time (fantasy too) and then 6th edition Fantasy brought me back and the love for Empire/Imperium/Imperial Guard, another friend quit 40k and wanted to get rid of his steel legion.
I like the idea of fielding over 100 models each game with myriads of heavy weapons and plasma throwers (my guys might die but more of yours will). I got slaughtered by Aldaris in two games but my plan was not bad and I blame bad dice rolls to my failure. So would like to stick to my Steel legion possibly get more and someday play 40k again.
(I really like the Stormtroopers too I already have about 15 but need more special weapons....should get those ones too...oh the 15 metal storm troopers were also in the 80 ....and 4 commisars, and that solar maximus silly guy).
I like this kommisar
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-COMMISSAR-2.html (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-COMMISSAR-2.html)
Talking about.....dreamworld of Fandir once he has money again.....getting 2 more squads of Steel Legion and fill up with another 4-5 Squads of Death Korps of Krieg...they are my very most favourite IG unit especially the horses.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-INFANTRY-SQUAD-ADVANCING.html (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Imperial_Guard/Death-Korps-of-Krieg/DEATH-KORPS-OF-KRIEG-INFANTRY-SQUAD-ADVANCING.html)
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/Sheep_06/Death%20Korps%20of%20Krieg/011-2.jpg (http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m289/Sheep_06/Death%20Korps%20of%20Krieg/011-2.jpg)
http://deathkorps.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/100_0648.jpg (http://deathkorps.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/100_0648.jpg)
-
Death Korps are resin! Boooo!
So, grey knights: are they any good? Assuming I won't use the dreadknight (ludicrous model) or any land raiders (too big and boring).
Also, is 40K due another edition any time soon?
-
Resin Schmesin....they are pretty.
Hmm I am bidding now on ebay for about 60 metal miniatures IG....how did that happen? (I wonīt get them for what I have offered though)
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260807496409&category=8656&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619 (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260807496409&category=8656&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619)
:lol:
Valhallans are nice too
Steel legion look like Fallschirmjäger and the Vallhallans like German Ostfront troops.
(also ebay guy....old Reiksguard 14 with full command for 34 so far.....insane not to bid donīt you think?)
-
Is there a 40K forum that won't melt my brain?
Resin Schmesin....they are pretty.
Until they shatter like your hopes.
-
As I will never buy them my hopes will go on foreeeeeeeeeevaaaaaar.
I think we should make a warhammer Empire 40k subforum as all other forums are shite....as finlay proved.
-
Well, this is the 40K subforum!
-
Also, is 40K due another edition any time soon?
Next year for certain!
Trust me, that is all I know... :biggriin:
-
I think GK are meant to be good, yes.
Really a new edition is due?
-
Yes 6th ed. is strongly rumoured to be released next summer with a shitload of changes.
Expect heavy faqs for many army books for them even to work.
I suspect the same size as WFB 8th and the same big production.
-
Well, that's ages away.
-
Yes 6th ed. is strongly rumoured to be released next summer with a shitload of changes.
Expect heavy faqs for many army books for them even to work.
I suspect the same size as WFB 8th and the same big production.
But Why?
I thought they'd got it right with this latest edition from all I'd heard - I even had a couple of games myself after it first came out, and it seemed fine.
Edit; Slap myself - of course - they need to make people spend more money, waste trees on thick expensive books, and generally waste time on something unnecessary when they could be redoing a codex or army book.
Now they have made it personal ..........................
:icon_rolleyes:
-
The grey knights are more expensive, points wise, than regular space marines, but they really get a lot of goodies for those points.
So in general, GK will be fewer in models then space marines, but those models are superb. Their obvious flaws are: low model count, still space marines (just as "easy" to kill).
More specific, the troop choice of the GK, the GK strike squads have one drawback: their 1 attack, it hurts them to be charged.
But other than that then here are the pros against regular marines:
Hammerhand (+1strength in CC (stacks))
Forceweapons on everything with better Force weapon rules (one test to make all wounds instant killing)
Stormbolters, better than lame bolters
+1 strength on storm bolters
Better vehicles by far (ignore shaken and stunned with a ld10 test)
dakka dreads, 2 twinlinked autocannons with stength 8
Librarians are awesome.
Grandmasters are awesome.
everything is awesome.
-
I love the new grey knight codex... :P
Oh and i think a 40k sub forum is needed.
-
OK, so what's good in a grey knight army then? Which are the most generally useful units? What are the best weapons (psicannons seem to be popular)? Are inquisitors good? Can I avoid using dreadknights and landraiders without a problem?
Is it ridiculous that I quite want one of those orangutans?
-
Usually, when I play, I dont have points left for the dreadknight and landraider so sure!
The thing with making a grey knight army is that you need to have a plan for every unit, because they are so few or expensive.
Usually, I run (in 1500-1750pts) 2x10 normal grey knights with a mastercrafted hammer, 2 psycannons, psy ammo (+1s stormbolters) in a rhino. they add up to 300 points per unit and are very capable of adding alot of fire power.
But they only have range 24" so they need something long range:
The most usefull and cheese option. Dakka dread, 2 twinlinked autocannons with Strength upgrade. Only 135pts each. A bargain!
Another long range option is the callidus assasin whom I love. She can take out the enemy's long range units with ease.
From there I usually add whatever I want.
Inquisitors are cool because they are so super cheap, and the xeno inquisitor can get some good upgrades, the ordo malleus (my fluff favourite) can get a daemon blade which will make him awesome.
He is also an independent character and can take small arms armour saves if he is with the grey knights (not possible if they are 10 in a unit in a rhino) because of his 3 wounds.
The other hq choices are also good, but super expensive = less units.
The henchmen warband is fricking awesome! 6 Death cultists will rip through everything! 8 psykers plus some warriors as bodyguard are also quite good firepower (adds a pie plate which is a rare sight in the GK army)
-
I think that we had a GK discussion in my 40k blog further down in the count's tavern :)
Or maybe it was a thread for it self.
-
Now they have made it personal ..........................
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/Other/richtertotalrecall.jpg)
It's about goddamn time!
-
Grey knights are ridiculous. I think it was written by the same fool who did that space marine book, which was also ridiculous.
-
What is ridiculous about them?
-
A deal of the fluff in the new book. The rules are fine though.
-
I purchased the Grey Knight codex just to read how badly the background had been written, but I have not yet had the chance to go through it in detail. Just skimming through though, I started to get the impression it was a bit over the top.
Rufus Sparkfire: If you want a good 40K forum to join, send me a PM for further details.
-
40K fluff is supposed to be ridiculous though, surely.
Thanks for the info, McKnight!
How about the terminators? Are they good in fives or do you need bigger squads? Swords or halberds?
The most usefull and cheese option. Dakka dread, 2 twinlinked autocannons with Strength upgrade. Only 135pts each. A bargain!
Is there a model for this? It doesn't look as though any autocannons come with the standard dreadnought.
I like the sound of that though!
-
Auocannons for dreads FW and shiny resin.
-
Auocannons for dreads FW and shiny resin.
Yup.
Forge World also has a nice pre-heresy dreadnought. Expensive, but nice.
-
You can get left and right autocannon arms at forgeworld. And those Dakka-dreads are really nasty - 4 rerollable S8 shots mounted on a frame that has a psi-power to ignore shaken and stunned... that thing just eats most vehicles.
-
I played a couple games with my Vanilla Marines. For funsies.
My list was along the lines of:
Chapter Master Artificer Armor, Lightning Claw, Storm Shield, Aux Grenade Launcher
Honor Guard (6) with Aux Grenade Launchers, Banner, and Relic Blade for Chapter Champion
Dedicated Rhino with Xtra Armor, Storm Bolter
2x Dreadnaughts w/ Assault Cannon, CC Weapon, Flamer
Predator with TL Lascannons, Hvy Bolters and Pintle Storm Bolter and Xtra Armor
2x Tac Squads 10ea. with Plasma Cannon and Flamer, Sergeant with Power Fist
Dev Squad 9ea. with 4 Lascannons, Sergeant with Power Fist
Assault Terminators 5 with SS and TH, 3 with LC
Was about 2k points.
I played two guys with tournament lists, so I expected to lose, but I wanted to have fun, and I did.
Played a game against a Necron player with 2 Monoliths and absolutely zero guys on the table for the first two turns. I got decimated, of course, and only managed to glance one monolith a couple times in spite of concentrating all of my lascannons at it for 4 turns (I roll dice good :::cheers::: ) I took out his 3 Supah Destroya's, and a couple immortals and a few warriors, and one of his monoliths had a -3 to it's Arc rolls, but that was it. Still, I get an almost sadistic glee from getting my marines killed in interesting ways, so it was fun for me regardless. :biggriin:
Then I played a Wolf player with 10 Razorbacks with little 5 man squads scattered within. 4 of the razors had TL Assault Cannons, the rest had Lascannon and TL Plasma Guns.
I actually did really really well in this game, but his sheer numbers eventually took me out. The best part was when he took a charge from my honor guard with Chapter Master into his HQ squad, and I kept having to remind him why each of my guys got 5 power weapon attacks (2 base, one for charging, one for banner, one for pistol). He dedicated ALL of his shooting at them in the following turn, and they died a glorious death. And my Assault Terminators walked across the table, and just kept making their saves (though they failed two panic tests :happy: ). I said: "I believe in you!" before each set of rolls, and my last Termie died when I forgot to repeat that mantra. Oops. I didn't believe in him and he died. :oops: But he pasted a wolf priest before he went :::cheers::: . Eventually his numbers told the story, but he only had 5 razorbacks left, and only 4 of his 8 little squads were left. Moral victory! And a blast.
I know my list is NOT good, and I only used it this one day for funs, I just thought you guys would like to hear about it. :P
-
Good to hear you had fun. And I won't comment on your list - if you like playing it it's fine.
-
GK termies are awesome. I just sometimes miss the storm shield which the regular termies have access to.
Aldaris pointed out to me that the halberds are the best choice, because they strike with I6 (before pretty much anything) and with hammerhand they will have s5.
But i actually also like a sword and a falchion maybe, just to take some powerweapon saves and to add some more attacks. But the hammer and halberd are most definitely the preferred weapons!
Sounds fun Cannon!
My space wolf opponent usually deploys long fangs en masse instead of razor spam, I didnt know wolves were good at that :o
-
This is making me want to paint my IG. Although I'm also sad I sold my 13th company space wolves.
I can only imagine what being part of a thriving community would inspire me to paint like.
Rufus' orcs definitely spurred me on with my own.
Would you 40k players say that 2000 point is more or less "standard" now? It used to be 1500 back in the day.
-
Hm. I just tried fooling around with onlinecodex - Space Wolves can combat squad, right? In that case it's pretty easy to make a list with 9 razorbacks with various armaments, each with 5 Grey Hunters (6 with meltas 3 with flamers), a Wolf Lord with good kit and a runepriest with good kit plus three dev squads with 5 launchers each at 2000 points. Should be pretty tough. 3 squads can't start embarked though because their razorbacks will be those of the dev squads, but hey - hide behind them and climb in turn one. Not my style, but it should work.
@ Finlay: depends on where you play. Around here it's mostly 2000, but in many areas 1750 or 1500 seems to be the norm.
-
Yes it really depends where you play. We play around 1500-1750pts here in Denmark.
-
2000 is the norm where we play but I still see mostly 1750 pts games overall.
-
I wouldn't say 2000 points is the standard in the UK. From discussing this with others, I get the impression that 1500 or 1750 is more the standard total. 1850 and 2000 points seem pretty common as well, but not to the same extent as the previous two.
-
I bought an imperial guard army book on ebay, while trying to find grey knights.
-
I bought an imperial guard army book on ebay, while trying to find grey knights.
You're not very good at this..
-
On the contrary, he did just the right thing. :closed-eyes: After all, he is still in 40K, which proves he is able to channel his attention admirably well compared to... well, disregard that.
Anyway, Grey Knights are for pansies, real men play Orkz, Guards or Sisters of Battle. :engel:
-
Anyway, Grey Knights are for pansies, real men play Orkz, Guards or Sisters of Battle. :engel:
Glad you used the operative word "or". :icon_lol:
-
I have no idea what you are talking about but yeah, I really like to play with my nuns.
-
I still want grey knights. I just felt compelled to buy the imperial guard book.
-
I still want grey knights. I just felt compelled to buy the imperial guard book.
This reminds me of shiny new toy syndrome :icon_wink:.
After you have read the Imperial Guard book, you may decide you prefer them to Grey Knights after all. If I were forced to play an Imperial army, however, I would opt for the Grey Knights, even before the latest codex was released.
-
Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html)
Looks very ... anime.
(http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/large/contemptor24.jpg)
-
So ... sombody clue me in ... from a fluff perspective, why do these grey knights get this advanced stuff, above other space marine chapters?
-
They are like the bestests of the bestests space marines.
Plus they have all kinds of powers - except against pimped BTs and Hounds.
-
Well they are the demon police a secret order of Space Marines dedicated to fight Chaos and Chaos only. Wasnīt there a rumour that their geneseed is from the Emperor himself?
I am not that much into the Grey knights fluff but as far as I know they are the super ultra elite strike force going in if a planet is threatened to be demon infested. So actually it would be unfluffy to field them against any other army but Chaos. (well you can always claim that that Guard/Space Marine/Eldar/Tau Commander is possessed and must be stopped before the greater demon breaks out of him).
-
Well they are the demon police a secret order of Space Marines dedicated to fight Chaos and Chaos only. Wasnīt there a rumour that their geneseed is from the Emperor himself?
I am not that much into the Grey knights fluff but as far as I know they are the super ultra elite strike force going in if a planet is threatened to be demon infested. So actually it would be unfluffy to field them against any other army but Chaos. (well you can always claim that that Guard/Space Marine/Eldar/Tau Commander is possessed and must be stopped before the greater demon breaks out of him).
Also, they live on Mars.
You should read the Grey Knights novel from the Black Library, Fandir, it's actually a good one.
-
I think that even the people of Impirial guard don t know of their existance, and after a battle that both the guardsmen and the grey knights fight together, the guardsmen are slaughtered so noone will ever know the grey knights apiarence. They probably do that to protect their fortress or something from being revieled.
-
Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html)
Looks very ... anime.
Aren't those Megatron's legs?
Also, they live on Mars.
Titan, I thought.
-
Aren't those Megatron's legs?
Yes they are, and I can hear Starscream in the background yelling "Retreat!".
-
I hate that dreadnaught.
-
Also, they live on Mars.
Nope, on Titan, one of the Saturn moons. Mars is the home and primary forgeworld of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
-
I think that dreadnought is rather nice he looks more agile than the sacrophagus big chunky metal dreads the space marines use now.
I also like the Manga look of the TAU army though so I might disqualify myself.
Aldaris, next time you come around we should play a bit of 40k again I might even paint a model or two before you come.
-
It's supposed to be an older design from when humanity viewed science as science and not as another religion, so it's not a surprise it's closer to the Tau aesthetic. I like it in the context of its background, but agree it's out of place in a "modern" space marine force. Astral Claw colour scheme and iconography are awesome though. The current forgeworld stuff is really good, love the Badab war models.
-
I like the Tau manga style.
I hate the manga style on space marines.
-
I think space marines are pretty mangaish in the first place large shoulderpads and we donīt need a helmet for our battle suit.
Yet I love the concept of Angry marines
http://www.vertigo.ripvanfish.com/umad/src/1287289421073.jpg (http://www.vertigo.ripvanfish.com/umad/src/1287289421073.jpg)
especially with afro
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15083746/images/1306614339011.jpg (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15083746/images/1306614339011.jpg)
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7423974/images/1262637251749.jpg (http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7423974/images/1262637251749.jpg)
and their launcher
http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/s0693098/angrymarinelauncher.jpg (http://i406.photobucket.com/albums/pp147/s0693098/angrymarinelauncher.jpg)
As manga as marines can get. (and I love it)
Well only ones more Mangaish must be the pretty marines
http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/101/4/6/Pretty_Marines_II_by_Jaekyu.jpg (http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs14/f/2007/101/4/6/Pretty_Marines_II_by_Jaekyu.jpg)
-
The angry marines are da best! :icon_mrgreen:
-
They are like the bestests of the bestests space marines.
Plus they have all kinds of powers - except against pimped BTs and Hounds.
Ok, yet what does the fluff say about why they are so special?
Well they are the demon police a secret order of Space Marines dedicated to fight Chaos and Chaos only. Wasnīt there a rumour that their geneseed is from the Emperor himself?
I am not that much into the Grey knights fluff but as far as I know they are the super ultra elite strike force going in if a planet is threatened to be demon infested. So actually it would be unfluffy to field them against any other army but Chaos. (well you can always claim that that Guard/Space Marine/Eldar/Tau Commander is possessed and must be stopped before the greater demon breaks out of him).
So its seems they get to test out advanced technology with the look of their figures? Or wasn't that suppose to be the Mentors? Maybe the Grey Knights technology gives them special powers against demons and chaos only? I suppose that woudl include Chaos space marines? Do the rules reflect any of this or instead they can beat up on anybody?
-
I think that even the people of Impirial guard don t know of their existance, and after a battle that both the guardsmen and the grey knights fight together, the guardsmen are slaughtered so noone will ever know the grey knights apiarence. They probably do that to protect their fortress or something from being revieled.
Hmmm ... so why can no one know of their existence? They only show up to face the demons of 40K, take them out, if they can, and no one knows?
-
GP....
I dont know where to start.
Okay.
Grey knights are elite space marines. They dont have a home world for recruiting. Their recruits are all psychic and only one in a thousand make it through the training.
They have super weapons because of their task and their training. Their minds are inpenetrable by chaos, so they are very valuable to the Imperium. Which is why they get the nice weapons.
Like already mentioned, the Grey knights book, and the other two in the omnibus really give a good insight of how they work. They also show that chaos and daemons can be anywhere so there is ample opportunity for the grey knights to meet evil guardsmen or eldar or whatever.
Also the daemonhunters codex actually had two pages of reasons for why the daemon hunters should be fighting every race, a nice detail.
-
Suppose that makes sense, with them being specially in tune even before they get the special equiptment.
-
I like the Tau manga style.
I hate the manga style on space marines.
Agreed.
-
Agreed too, but Angry Marines are more than Manga, they are just Angry and Awesome.
But otherwise I agree that the Manga influence should be kept with the Tau because that is their thing and what makes them different.
-
Also, they live on Mars.
Nope, on Titan, one of the Saturn moons. Mars is the home and primary forgeworld of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
That's right! I'm dumb. 40,000 is not my year.
-
Hah, what a faux pas. Mars.
:wink:
-
Now I have the grey knights army book!
I love all the inquisitor options and henchmen. Too bad you have to use Cortez the Killer or whatever he is called if you want henchmen troop choices.
Not only does he look like a small-headed fool (the classic 'power armor but no helmet' problem), but he is only available in resin. Which means I either have to get a metal one from ebay, or make my own version of him (easily done, apart from the robot eagle thing he has).
-
He is ridiculously cool! What are you talking about ?:P
His small head is justified since he isn't a space marine.
I think a mix of henchmen and grey knights would be the best option for the army, compared to an all henchmen army.
-
Anyone in power armor but not wearing a helmet looks absurd. It's a fact.
I do intend to use grey knights as well as henchmen, but Cortez the Killer is essential if you want to have more than a token number of henchmen units. So he's in.
And then I will use a more interesting inquisitor as my other HQ. I like demon blades!
-
You mean Torquemada Coteaz? I hate that model too! We're hate buddies!
-
Anyone in power armor but not wearing a helmet looks absurd. It's a fact.
I do intend to use grey knights as well as henchmen, but Cortez the Killer is essential if you want to have more than a token number of henchmen units. So he's in.
And then I will use a more interesting inquisitor as my other HQ. I like demon blades!
I plan on using the Castellan crowe model for my daemon blade inquisitor. The model has a lot of inquisitorial =I= on it, and the daemon blade is two handed :P
-
I quite like Crowe!
But not for Ģ10.
You mean Torquemada Coteaz? I hate that model too! We're hate buddies!
I don't hate him. I just think his head looks comically small.
Also, it's funny how reading forums tends to put you off wanting to play a game. By which I mean it isn't funny at all. I've been reading 40K forums, and it's all 'transports are too powerful and also you will never win any games ever because you gave your models the wrong weapons.'
I wonder if this forum puts people off playing Empire?
-
what forum are you on?
I think the forum probably does put people off as well, too much off topic stuff allowed in areas outside CT and BT
-
What annoys me with other forums is that if you are new, you often get jumped on by established members, who know all their is to know, and often have fixed ideas on how good/bad something is.
What I like about coming here is that people will reply to your posts without imediately going X is poor, use Y instead.
Rufus, I don't think there is such a thing as "the wrong weapon" in 40k. The newer books tend to have very little rubbish in them.
-
I wonder if this forum puts people off playing Empire?
It sure as hell would put me off, if I spent most of the time in the Electors Forum.
All this whining that's going on in almost any game-related forum is purely annoying and very offputting. And I don't give a rats ass if complaints are legitimate. If they make up the majority of conversations it's gonna kill the love, just like in a relationship.
-
Thats why I don't post in Electors forum very much Aldaris! I can't remember the last time I posted in their on a topic I didn't post up myself!
-
I haven't actually joined a 40K forum yet. I've just been reading them.
The general tone is quite discouraging. I think I need to be more careful about the sort of posts I make here.
-
I can recommend Librarium Online, I have had a relatively good time on there Rufus. Warseer in the 40k Forum is brutal, but their specialist games forums are helpful.
-
What annoys me with other forums is that if you are new, you often get jumped on by established members, who know all their is to know, and often have fixed ideas on how good/bad something is.
What I like about coming here is that people will reply to your posts without imediately going X is poor, use Y instead.
Rufus, I don't think there is such a thing as "the wrong weapon" in 40k. The newer books tend to have very little rubbish in them.
I think thats what this forum is like tbh.
And also, the anti GW stuff must be grating, as Adaris says.
-
It causes me physical pain to agree with Finlay, but I do. Fortunately I can offset this by claiming I agree only with Aldaris and pretending Finlay doesn't exist, as agreeing with Aldaris is currently socially acceptable.
Established forum members here do jump on newbies sometimes. Just like every other forum. Maybe not as much, but it happens.
Case in point, Sword of Justice.
-
IG pictures! sorry the pictures are so bad, its dark here.
Squad one.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/squad.jpg)
Squad 2
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/squad2.jpg)
Sarge, lasgun and plas.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/sargeandplas.jpg)
Sarge
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/sarge2.jpg)
Another Sarge
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/sarge.jpg)
MEtal cadians
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/metalcadians.jpg)
MEtal sarge
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/metalsarge.jpg)
Commanders
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/2commanders.jpg)
WIP kitbashed veterans, with pig iron heads.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/kitbash2.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/Imperial%20guard/kitbash1.jpg)
I forgot just how green they were... Might need to choose a different colour for their armour plates... ideas?
I have 2 chimeras, a basilisk, a leman russ and a demolisher which I need to paint.
And also all my heavy weapons.
-
Know how I said your painting has improved leaps and bounds?
I take it all back.
:engel:
On a serious note, the shiny sheen the models have, is that the flash of the camera?
-
...as agreeing with Aldaris is currently socially acceptable.
Currently?
Ha!
@ Finlay: Nice guardsmen! I am looking forward to see that Commander painted!
:wink:
-
(http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/gallery/forever-alone/forever-alone-guy-painting.jpg)
Know how I said your painting has improved leaps and bounds?
I take it all back.
:engel:
On a serious note, the shiny sheen the models have, is that the flash of the camera?
Yes, it's PISSING down outside. so dark, I had to use flash.
-
It causes me physical pain to agree with Finlay, but I do. Fortunately I can offset this by claiming I agree only with Aldaris and pretending Finlay doesn't exist, as agreeing with Aldaris is currently socially acceptable.
Established forum members here do jump on newbies sometimes. Just like every other forum. Maybe not as much, but it happens.
Case in point, Sword of Justice.
I just want to point out that I was nice to that particular new guy, and even defended him vehemently against others. Cuz I'm a good guy.
-
Like that here now, flash is the only option in that case. They're fine Finlay, especially as you'll need over 100 of them!
Currently?
Ha!
Well yes, when I posted that it was acceptable, as otherwise I would have to agree with Finlay.
Now though? Get back to your holding, peasant. Go scrounge up some turnips.
I just want to point out that I was nice to that particular new guy, and even defended him vehemently against others. Cuz I'm a good guy.
I just want to point out that you're still next.
-
Now though? Get back to your holding, peasant. Go scrounge up some turnips.
I already ate, you welsh sheep shagger.
:-D
-
I hate painting tanks but love painting Daemons.
That said, were is the 40K subforum? :closed-eyes:
-
I hate painting tanks but love painting Daemons.
That said, were is the 40K subforum? :closed-eyes:
You're in it.
-
I don't think my Ig are that bad!
-
Also, it's funny how reading forums tends to put you off wanting to play a game. By which I mean it isn't funny at all. I've been reading 40K forums, and it's all 'transports are too powerful and also you will never win any games ever because you gave your models the wrong weapons.'
You just have to work out who is talking sense, and who is talking rubbish. My advice would be to avoid contributors who only advocate one way of playing the game, most of whom are WAAC players, as I find that they take all the enjoyment out of the game.
-
You're in it.
Cutting down on space are we?
-
You just need to highligth them with a lighter green to give them a good contrast! :O
-
Nice guard Finley,
Mine are in urban camo :)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300285.jpg)
Whats up with the Sword of Justice? Am I missing something?
-
Urban camo, then a lush green field! Lovely models, but the bases look weird.
There was a long thread about the sword of justice, someone wanted to use it for a wizard to let them re roll wounds.
Everyone sane said this was stupid rules lawyery.
Everyone insane said that it was allowed.
It got heated.
-
Urban camo, then a lush green field! Lovely models, but the bases look weird.
There was a long thread about the sword of justice, someone wanted to use it for a wizard to let them re roll wounds.
Everyone sane said this was stupid rules lawyery.
Everyone insane said that it was allowed.
It got heated.
Of course it got heated when people posted like that. :icon_rolleyes:
-
A wizard using a projectile spell? Really? That is really dumb lol. I didn't think we had many rules as written people here. Glad I don't really read the main forum on here very much anymore, as I don't use Empire atm. [Skaven only in current edition ::heretic::]
You are always going to have some issues when you argue against the general agreement on a site. I remember being involved in many 6th edition debates on spears vs hand weapons, but they were good natured [at least I thought so]
You do need to avoid WACCY players wherever you post. I am not especially competative, I will always use things I like, rather than things which are "the best" even if they are insane. For example, I own 3 forge world chaos dreadnaughts. Anyone who knows anything about the chaos 40k book will know that these are generally seen as terrible. Still, I love the models so one or two occasionally comes along, and then I have to cross my fingers and hope I don't kill all my own soldiers.
My bases match my table, its basically flock green, the brown is there for contrast. We do however have a huge amount of cities of death buildings [around Ģ130s worth] so we often play in urban settings too.
-
You do need to avoid WACCY players wherever you post.
Pretty hard when the definition changes per person.
I find some people here to be WAAC players, whilst extolling the virtues of fluff and justice or some nonsense. Yet they would be the first to cry WAAC with anyone disagreeing on any point.
-
I am not especially competative, I will always use things I like, rather than things which are "the best" even if they are insane. For example, I own 3 forge world chaos dreadnaughts. Anyone who knows anything about the chaos 40k book will know that these are generally seen as terrible. Still, I love the models so one or two occasionally comes along, and then I have to cross my fingers and hope I don't kill all my own soldiers.
You can mitigate against this, depending on your weapon choices, so they are not necessarily as terrible as some would have you believe. They are not recommended though by most players, I agree.
My Chaos army includes all sorts of units which are meant to be terrible, such as Chaos Spawn and Possessed, but I really love the models, so I use them for that reason. Besides what comes around goes around in 40K. Just because they are not great now, does not mean that they will always be so, which is why WAAC players who spam one or two unit types in their army tend to get their fingers burnt when there is a change of edition/codex. It's all the more reason to field balanced armies in my opinion.
-
I think I am naturally unlucky with my chaos dreadnaughts. I have one with a twinlinked lascannon and missile launcher which is a serious no go in the current rule set, one with a plasmacannon and dcw which is okay if placed near a landraider, and one with two combat arms [which does mitigate virtually all the issues]
I always seem to fire frenzy in the early part of the game, when they are near my own units, rather than later on, when it would be more benificial!
I have used chaos spawns myself, as wound absorbers for my dreadnaughts. I can honestly say I have never used possessed, I never have the points for them, as if I do field elites, I normally use small numbers of chaos terminators [booo a competative unit!]
Chaos dreads will be good when they eventually get a new model, as they will want to sell people it. The current metal ones have not aged well.
WAAC does vary player to player, but most players have a general idea what WAAC will entail. I don't neccersarily go into fluff full force, but I do tend to build my army around a theme. Now depending on the theme, it could end up as a WAAC list [or what some consider a WAAC list, eg nuln list with all artillery and handgun units] or it could end up fluffy and relatively weak.
-
Possessed are just hit and miss. If you roll Power Weapons or Rending, they can be rather dangerous, but their other abilities are not very impressive. I don't use them all that often, but then I don't use my Chaos army all that much either, so it's all relative.
-
Possessed are just hit and miss. If you roll Power Weapons or Rending, they can be rather dangerous, but their other abilities are not very impressive. I don't use them all that often, but then I don't use my Chaos army all that much either, so it's all relative.
I know the feeling, mine have been in a glass cabinet for almost a year by now.
-
I know the feeling, mine have been in a glass cabinet for almost a year by now.
The whole issue with my Chaos army is that whenever I open the book, I find it so hard to get inspired, because of the tepid narrative aspect of the whole book. Efforts to try to get more community involvement with Chaos in terms of article writing on another site also didn't generate much interest, which was rather dispiriting.
It's for all these reasons I tend to focus on my Eldar, but I still have fun whenever I do field my Chaos force.
-
I forgot just how green they were... Might need to choose a different colour for their armour plates... ideas?
Maybe grey?
They look good anyway.
On a different subject: what does a conversion beamer look like? How would you go about representing one?
-
On a different subject: what does a conversion beamer look like? How would you go about representing one?
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQACid-__YZYcONeq11Gldkqwnk3cSYSEGY8DvJ3FjY781tGWU2)
or
(http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-content/uploads/gallery/2008-bmw-1-series-convertible/bmw-soft-top-convertible.jpg)
:engel:
-
Lame.
-
Lame.
Wouldn't it have to have legs to be that ................. :engel:
Maybe you should have said "punctured" or "immobilised" ............ :closed-eyes:
-
I also wonder where the 40K subforum is? I figured this was the right thread to ask the question in. :engel:
-
How about this grey knights list?
Inquisitor Coteaz 100
Malleus Inquisitor demon blade, 3 skulls, power armour, brain mines 67
10 grey knights justicar with master crafted hammer 280
incinerator
psycannon
3 with halberds
4 with swords
psybolts
rhino 40
6 terminators justicar with master crafted hammer 270
psycannon
2 with swords
2 with halberds
11 henchmen 9 acolytes with hot shot lasguns 105
1 acolyte with meltagun
mystic
chimera 55
11 henchmen 5 death cult assassins 160
5 crusaders
1 demonhost
chimera 55
5 interceptors justicar with sword 160
incinerator
1 with sword
2 with halberds
dreadnought lascannon, missile launcher 150
total = 1442 (aiming for 1500)
-
You radical field a demonhost .....so no. :closed-eyes:
I am not very veteran in 40k (well post count wise we should need an extra 40k counter) but you seem lacking armour popping weapons.
Also browsing the interwebs I found a great Imperial guard converted army
yes it is German...but you guys should learn that language
http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902 (http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902)
-
Maybe if I had a vindicare assassin with his 4d6 shot of doom that would be sufficient to handle tanks?
I'll try to buy one on ebay. Or hilariously substitute a hobbit sniper for one... but I'm not sure 40K players have a sense of humor.
Also browsing the interwebs I found a great Imperial guard converted army
That is amazing.
-
Well about as much as Fantasy players there are the good, the bad and the ugly.
Vindicare would be a great idea I think.
-
When I was going to use a Vindicare I planned on using the miniature of Mad Larkin, as he is about as badass a sniper can be in 40K. Since rumours seems to say the Sisters will not have access to assassins (bar Deathcult ones), nor Inquisitors, Landraiders or Stormtroopers, Larkin is out of work. :icon_frown:
But I guess I gotta build a compact badass IG army in the memory of Codex Catachan. Maybe just a single Russ driven by an elite tank ace some walkers and lots of die hard veterans. :icon_mrgreen:
-
Well, if you want a stronger list then here is what I see you need to change:
The dreadnought needs 2 autocannons and psybolts instead of its current weaponry.
The henchmen squad with one melta needs additional 2 meltas.
The one group with 5 crusaders needs to be cut down, 2 is usually enough.
I dont see what the daemon host is doing. In my mind you need a lot of them to do some real damage.
Exchange the incinie on the interceptors with a psycannon. This gives you some more anti tank by shunting to the read of a tank and letting loose.
-
Also browsing the interwebs I found a great Imperial guard converted army
yes it is German...but you guys should learn that language
http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902 (http://www.gw-fanworld.net/showthread.php?t=132902)
Looks like grots to me.
Why speak German on that site, when I'm just looking at the pictures, and can speak english here? :icon_wink:
-
On a different subject: what does a conversion beamer look like? How would you go about representing one?
Type 'Conversion Beamer' into Google, and you will be able to see lots of images of one.
You could also try finding pictures of the Master of the Forge, who can be equipped with this weapon.
-
Can grey knights take a bike mount for their conversion beamer carrier? With Space Marines, their Master of the Forge works best with a conversion beamer on a bike, to keep the distance as high as possible.
-
Can grey knights take a bike mount for their conversion beamer carrier?
Not that I can see.
The Techmarine appears to be the only model which can be equipped with the Conversion Beamer, and he cannot be mounted on a bike.
-
Is it worth buying the walky talky's for IG squads?
How do people tend to kit out the company command squads? I'm tempted to have 2 bs4 lascannons, but I guess this is a juicy expensive target which is very easy to kill.
-
I think I am naturally unlucky with my chaos dreadnaughts.
You really should use them as CC Beasts combined with a crab or two with extra claws.
That is one heavy psychological factor.
-
Hmmm I donīt think the vox are worth it for IG keep em cheap.
well you can hand the command group one lascannon and stick em in a chimera (always better).
I usually give them nothing but a lascannon and a melter. sticking them in a chimera and playing firebrigade should something armoured break through...oh and I like to field two of those...but as I have only played 3 games I am not someone you want to ask what he likes.
-
Can grey knights take a bike mount for their conversion beamer carrier? With Space Marines, their Master of the Forge works best with a conversion beamer on a bike, to keep the distance as high as possible.
The Ordo xenos inquisitor can also get it. Yum yum, cheap :D
Is it worth buying the walky talky's for IG squads?
How do people tend to kit out the company command squads? I'm tempted to have 2 bs4 lascannons, but I guess this is a juicy expensive target which is very easy to kill.
Depends on your army build.
If you are playing gunline, then they are good, but since heavy weapon squads can't get radios, its kinda wasted.
I usually play mechanized veterans and radios are useful to secure the important order going through at a critical moment, this of course means that the commander has to be close.
Therefore, I usually equip my command with 3 plasmas and a medic (no room for the radio), so no they arent worth it, I trust in the Emperor. :P
My friend who plays Death Korps of Krieg use the radios a lot! He has a normal command and a horsy command and their orders just boost the line so much. This is especially so because of the ability Krieg has to combine normal squads with heavy weapon squads, so that the heavy weapons have radios.
He also uses "Get back into the fight" very well!
Oh and you can only have one heavy weapon, so no two lascannons for you!
-
Maybe I can make a psylencer into a conversion beamer by changing the muzzle for something else? I looked at various images (and the line drawing in the army book) but I'm still not clear on what it's meant to look like.
Well, if you want a stronger list then here is what I see you need to change:
The dreadnought needs 2 autocannons and psybolts instead of its current weaponry.
The henchmen squad with one melta needs additional 2 meltas.
The one group with 5 crusaders needs to be cut down, 2 is usually enough.
I dont see what the daemon host is doing. In my mind you need a lot of them to do some real damage.
Exchange the incinie on the interceptors with a psycannon. This gives you some more anti tank by shunting to the read of a tank and letting loose.
Thanks for the advice!
There are some model issues here though. Firstly, I bought a squad of ten metal grey knights on ebay... but it has two incinerators and one psycannon. I have one box of the plastic ones also, but since I can only have three heavy weapons in total I am stuck with the incinerators.
So is it better to have the psycannon on the interceptors and two incinerators on the strike squad?
Likewise, an autocannon dreadnought is difficult to obtain. As are extra meltaguns for my guardsmen. Crusaders were easy (free company with swords and shields) as were the death cult (dogs of war vesparo's vendetta!).
I included the demonhost because they are cool! I can see from their rules that they aren't up to much.
What do people use for psychic henchmen? They are supposed to be rogues, so the imperial guard ones are no good (and would look silly in groups anyway).
-
Oooh well use the models that you want to use :)
Regarding the incinies and psycannons, I rarely use incinies so i would put 2 psycannons in the strike squad. The strike squads are supposed to be 24" away from the enemy, unless you have a juicy target to charge so a flamethrower wouldnt be that optimal.
The strike squad can use the incinie better with their shunt move, just like with the psycannon :) So that is your choice ;)
One of my friends are using the sanctioned psykers. They are made for the IG psyker battle squad so why not ours. I dont think they "have" to be rouge psykers?
-
I think I have some plastic meltagun bits I can send you Rufus. They're from SM sprues, but they should still work for guardsmen. Let me know if you want them.
-
Regarding the incinies and psycannons, I rarely use incinies so i would put 2 psycannons in the strike squad. The strike squads are supposed to be 24" away from the enemy, unless you have a juicy target to charge so a flamethrower wouldnt be that optimal.
Maybe I can replace the metal incinerators with psycannons somehow? I'll have to see when my models show up from ebay. But I suspect it will be awkward.
I don't like the sanctioned psychics because they are all in the same pose. A unit of them would look silly!
I think I have some plastic meltagun bits I can send you Rufus. They're from SM sprues, but they should still work for guardsmen. Let me know if you want them.
Yes please! That would be great!
-
@Finley,
In my experience, the vox network doesn't seem worthwhile. But I always forget my orders. If you use heavy weapon squads, that would be the best use of "fire on my target" and "bring it down" but they cant get voxes... So its a bit meh really.
Can you have two lascannons in one squad? I didn't think you could when I read it! I normally tool my command units up with special weapons. I always take 4 of any given type, either melta, flamer or plasma. I always take power firsts on my company and platoon commanders, as initiative 3 pretty much strikes last all the time anyway.
@Rufus
A twin autocannon dreadnaught can be easily obtained from forge world if you feel like stumping up some cash. As can meltagun and plasmagun guardsmen. Expensive though.
-
if you feel like stumping up some cash.
That's the problem: I never do!
Also I don't want resin stuff.
-
I really like forge world stuff, even though it is resin :) I own 3 dreadnaughts, 2 guard artillery pieces, a khorne lord, two spacemarine cruisers and a titan engiseer from there, the detail is exceptional compared to the GW official models, and I have never had an issue with them being miscast.
What is your issue with resin Rufus?
-
I am hopelessly conservative and don't like unfamiliar things!
-
Well I am Conservative [both big and small C] and I quite like the Forge world models. You have to do a fair amount of actual modelling, something a lot of the new GW models seem to have removed by making their models fit together properly!
I can honestly say I am withholding any conclusions on finecast till I see a model. As it is, I have no interest in buying any of the finecast models at the moment [although I have always wanted a cockatrice] so this may be a while.
All the forge world dreadnaught models are really sexy. I have three chaos ones [two emperors children and one word bearers] a friend of mine has a grey knights one, along with two regular GW dreadnaughts, and it is amazing just how much better the resin models are.
Sure it is a carcinogenic, but I have no interest in grinding it up and snorting the resin cut-offs, nor am I intending on eating it!
If I wasn't poor, I would buy loads more stuff from Forge World. It urinates all over GW kits.
-
I don't really want to use heavy weapons squads- because don't they get evaporated instantly by anything over str 6?
-
Thats why you put them in cover and go to ground.
Then in your turn you give them the order to get back in the fight and they will shoot :D
I usually use vendettas for lascannon support while my heavy weapon squads supply some autocannons and heavy bolters, thus also presenting a smaller threat to the enemy.
-
The only heavy weapon teams I use have mortars. Very cheap and cheerful, and exceptionally useful for their cost. Autocannons are my HW of choice for my regular squads.
-
Oh yes, i cant believe i forgot the mortars. They are excellent for grapping the home objective and freeing the rest of the army for the offensive. They rawk!
-
Thanks to Dwhitey's generosity I now have loads of inquisitors and henchmen!
Plus also my grey knights and cadians arrvived from ebay. So my 40K collection stands at something like this:
10 grey knights (2 psycannons, after some minor conversion)
5 grey knight teleporty guys (incinerator)
1 grey knight terminator (may be a character model, I'm not sure)
12 metal cadians (one has a missile launcher, which sadly I can't use in this army)
1 Mordian captain
inquisitor Coteaz
3 other inquisitors!
4 stormtroopers
plasma gun acolyte guy
weird cherub thing (not sure what to count this as: mystic? demonhost?)
servitor (well, he's a sort of cyborg secretary thing, I think)
5 servo skulls (one proper one, four I made from random plastic skulls)
xenotech gunbot servitor
2 demonhosts
5 crusaders
5 death cult assassins
a mystic or psychic or priest. Undecided which he looks most like
random space marine captain (could use him as a warrior acolyte with power armour and bolter)
So, I have loads of stuff! Still need 5 terminators and a vindicare assassin. Oh, and a couple of transports I suppose. And I want a mordian squad too. Also a dreadnought.
All the forge world dreadnaught models are really sexy. I have three chaos ones [two emperors children and one word bearers] a friend of mine has a grey knights one, along with two regular GW dreadnaughts, and it is amazing just how much better the resin models are.
Forge world do have some nice stuff. I'm still scared of resin though.
-
@Finlay
What you have to remember Finlay is if someone is shooting heavy weapons at your heavy weapon squads in cover, they are not shooting your tanks!
You should IMO always fill up your heavy support with tanks. Doesn't matter what you take, but fill it up. Even if its bare bones Russ tanks. I usually take a Collossus, Manticore and a Russ, or a Collossus and two Russes in any games of 1500 or more points. Heavy weapon teams come from troops, so can capture objectives unlike devastators.
If you are feeling especially beardy, you can deploy them behind another squads dedicated chimera, jump in it on turn one, drive the chimera to a fire point, and from turn 2 you can unleash a battery of long ranged fire from the relative safety of a chimera.
@Rufus
If you dont know what a model is, you can use it as different things until you decide what it is best to be :) You just need a squad or two of terminators to fill your army out.
-
Count as Bloodthirster... :icon_twisted:
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/manticore1.jpg)
-
:eusa_clap:
nice one....now paint it.....or let it be painted.
-
What models are being used there?
-
Not the official model, I wouldn't let you use it. :icon_cool:
40k is picking up a lot here now, this weekend coming my Chaos Marines leave the glass cabinet for the first time in over a year!
Only a 1000 points though. How many daemon princes is that...
-
Not the official model, I wouldn't let you use it. :icon_cool:
I don't play against teens so your point is moot.
-
What models are being used there?
The new Manticore, the vambraces from the sorcerer rider, the sword from the lord and a Bloodletter champ body and head.
-
Not the official model, I wouldn't let you use it. :icon_cool:
I don't play against teens so your point is moot.
:icon_biggrin:
Neither do I, their attempts at powergaming fail them when they don't know how to use the army they netlisted. :engel:
When are you going to paint the damn thing so I can cry some more over my mediocre abilities?
-
When are you going to paint the damn thing so I can cry some more over my mediocre abilities?
After I have finished another five letters, a DP, and more Ogres for our mega battle.
Besides I have punished you enough already.
-
Fair enough, fair enough...
Back to painting red lizards.
-
That model looks great Shadowlord. The fur on the Manticore looks a lot better in your photo than in the WD I looked at :roll:
"Counts as" makes far more sense for chaos than other armies. They are hardly likely to have two identicle bloodthirsters when they are representing chaos itself, not uniformity!
-
Are roughriders worth having?
-
If they are fluffy, go for it anyway.
-
Roughriders are fantastic at what they do - a great counterattack element for unbelievably cheap. An IG army doesn't really need that, you can just sacrifice and take the cc losses with fodder units. But if you want a counterattack element without investing much they are the way to go. They only get one useful charge, but who cares? Problem is there are no good models, none (except for forgeworld, at prices that would bring tears even to Shadowlords eyes). You'll have to do some big time converting, unless you fancy the incredibly ugly Attilans.
I've seen a couple of really nice takes on the theme though. Cold Ones as mounts with IG plastic soldiers as riders (tried to go that route, not easy. Cutting, greenstuffing and repositioning the legs to the mount is a bitch, at least for my limited skills). Another option I've seen is offroad bikes as mounts. Take a peek at coolminiornot, I remember seeing a couple of inspirational takes on the theme there.
-
I'm available for rough rider conversion work. You buy the models, and I'm sure we can work out an equitable arrangement for me to convert them up. They'd look great on new Pistolier horses.
-
I made my own rough riders from pistoleers and cadians. They are not painted yet, but i can take a photo if you want to see them Finlay?
I have ten, but so far I havn't had the points to field them. The issue I am finding is that for their points, I can usually field a better tank or sentinel. They can realistically only be used vs initative 4 or less 1 wound power armour units, so if you play lots of marines, this is great. Just don't expect them to survive being shot. If you have a lot of chimera this makes them even more of a target as the enemy have few targets to shoot out.
Also, I tend to use a Techpriest Engiseer in the counter attack role, except he can fix tanks as well. I have found a techpriest with a couple of servitors, all with powerfists, can do far more carnage than the rough riders. There are also models for these that don't suck :-D
-
The lances increase S and I by 2, don't they? Meaning you can very well tackle I5 units as well, and that's nearly everything then. Techpriests I am not sold on. Too slow. All their attacks that are any good are I1, and they don't have the stamina to survive until then. They also lack the charge range of the riders.
-
Yeah I suppose you can tackle initiative 5 units, but you will be wiped out!
I use techpriests primarily for their fixing tank ability, their combat ability is like an extra free ability to me. I don't seem to have any luck with rough riders, as ideally to get the most out of them you want a priest, who cant be mounted! Strength 5 is still not really all that amazing.
If you have several servitors, they all throw down power fist attacks. They have better armour than rough riders, as it is carapace and power armour for that unit.
-
I am too sold on cavalry on paper you can charge them into space marines or terminators and have good chances that they will bring at the very least their points back in. They are fast and they hit hard, I think you can even give them orders and I also think that you can order them to hit the dirt so the tactic hitting the dirt, ordering them to get back up and charging them into something well armoured seems like a great plan doesnīt it?
(I think I got some of the rules wrong but I donīt know what yet?)
I would like to make an imperial guard army with these guys as regular infantry (I think gluing lasguns on them could work and would make them look 40kish enough)
http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/apr/622364b.jpg (http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/apr/622364b.jpg)
And cavalry like these guys
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/PM_PlastikCurassiers.jpg (http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/PM_PlastikCurassiers.jpg)
I was so on fire with this idea (the tanks also in white and blue to make them proper frenchy looking) I almost ordered the stuff....but after the ebay disaster I promised myself to spend not a single cent on warhammer until christmas.
(here a guy on warseer trying something along those lines http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298972 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298972))
What bases do you use for cavalry anyway?
Also can someone give suggestions about suggested size and additional items for the unit?
Do I get it right that 5 of them should have 10 attacks at high S and I at 55 points? (who cares if they all die afterwards?)
-
Yeah I suppose you can tackle initiative 5 units, but you will be wiped out!
So? They are only good for one charge anyway, and the unit you kill will almost always be more valuable. 10 RR cost under 100 points!
-
Sounds like the overall IG credo.....
"Soldiers....you will die....maybe not today or tomorrow. But in the end you will all die for the greater good of the Imperium of Man!"
-
@ Fandir: 5 is too small - you want 8-10 ideally. That's 20 S5 I5 PW attacks, meaning you have a good chance of wiping or at least crippling a typical squad of CC specialists.
-
Ah, that sounds so tempting. A large rough rider squad. Hmm
-
A good way of using them is to put them in regular reserve. The enemy should have come pretty close when the rough riders enter and with their 6" move, fleet run and 12" charge, they can very easily reach their target, and thus you avoid being shot to pieces.
Rough riders are gold!
And they are even cooler when you use the krieg models.
-
Can you fire heavy weapons out of a moving transport? Or not?
Also, force weapons: activating them just makes them able to instantly kill things, right? But they are power weapons even if not activated?
p.s. 40K forums still give me the impression that 40K players hate 40K and other people.
-
NOpe, then they count as moving.
The grey knights activate their forceweapons when you make the first wound (if you havent made the hammerhand power, they can only make one power per turn, unless they have a character or master level2). All wounds are then instant killing, when the test is passed, which is much better than normal forceweapons that only makes one wound instant killy.
Yes they are always power weapons :D
-
Thanks!
So there's not much point activating the force weapons then, unless you are fighting a character or something.
-
so a squad of veterans with a lascannon and 3 plasma guns can shoot all of them out of a non moving Chimera?
-
Yes, I think five people can shoot from a chimera.
Presumably the plasma guns can still fire if the chimera moves at normal speed.
-
Thanks!
So there's not much point activating the force weapons then, unless you are fighting a character or something.
Nope. And you roll for hammerhand in the beginning of the assault phase. Remember that Hammerhand stacks! So if your independent character and unit makes hammerhand they will have +2 in strength!
-
Ten rough riders is 105 points, for what its worth. I don't see any reason to not field 10, as half your attacks will miss anyway.
You are correct Finlay, 5 models, any variety can shoot out of a chimera. Command units can have 4 special weapons and a plasma pistol on their commander. Its worth considering! I use a unit with 4 flamers in a chimera, thats nasty vs hordes.
I use chimelta and chiplasma vet units. My plasma unit has 3 plasmaguns and a plasma pistol for 7 plasma shots from complete safety :) The melta taxi has only 3 shots, but again, completely safe.
Don't put heavy weapons in chimeras if you want to fire them and move. Completely pointless. If you are using them as a pill box, by all means add a heavy weapon and say some grenade launchers for extra long range firepower.
-
Remember that Hammerhand stacks! So if your independent character and unit makes hammerhand they will have +2 in strength!
Hey, that's nice!
Maybe I should have a terminator inquisitor with my terminators. Or have Coteaz join a strike squad.
Also, I am amused by the fact that terminators can fit in a chimera.
But I'm not amused by the psylencer. What a terrible weapon!
Also also, techno-orangutans cost 35 points! So expensive!
-
Remember you can't shoot out of the vehicle if you drove more than 6", then you have to exit it and shoot. Thats a drawback :/
Remember that Hammerhand stacks! So if your independent character and unit makes hammerhand they will have +2 in strength!
Hey, that's nice!
Maybe I should have a terminator inquisitor with my terminators. Or have Coteaz join a strike squad.
Also, I am amused by the fact that terminators can fit in a chimera.
But I'm not amused by the psylencer. What a terrible weapon!
Also also, techno-orangutans cost 35 points! So expensive!
I cant remember wether an inquisitor in terminator armour can have a daemonblade or other nice stuff, but only the selection you get when you have chosen the armour?
Yes the psilencer really adds nothing to the army.
The condemor boltgun is the worst weapon in the codex, though, it has been faqed to have its special rule work on a wound on a psyker and not hit.
-
I just really fancy the idea of rough riders. something with at least one punch in CC.
Crimson if you could put up pics of yours that would be great.
I also want some ratlers, because hobbits are awesome.
In my list I've got chimelta's and demo charge, and also a platoon command squad with a double flamer chimera and 4 flamers. toasty!
I had one veteran squad with 3 plasma and a lascannon without a chimera, but I figure I may as well just give them a chimera pillbox?
Valykries are Ģ41! what did they used to be?
-
I think I paid 30 quid Finlay but I got mine from a reseller. I beleive they were Ģ35 before, the same as Land Raiders. I have 5 ratlings myself, never used them as I don't ever seem to have spare points. Not painted yet either.
Here are three of my Rough Riders for you to look at, and my techpriest :-D
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300337.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300336.jpg)
-
What legs are they using, knight legs?
I actually quite like Attilan rough riders! But I'm not going to pay 75 quid for 10 of them.
I have a bunch of the unarmoured mounted legs from empire command sprues, wonder if they would work.
-
Outrider horses and legs.
-
CS ... like the conversions! :::cheers:::
-
They use outrider bodies and legs, except the sergent model who has a guard officer body with medals on. I used most of my spare pistol, chainsword and grenade arms to make them.
I just couldn't justify to myself paying so much for the Attilan models, especially considering how much I hate them. Forge world do some nice ones too, but they are also expensive.
Mine worked out at two pistoleer boxes and one box of cadians, which I think came to around Ģ30 for all 10.
Edit: If anyone is wondering why these rough riders are based before painted, it is quite sad. I have a lady friend who owns a lot of horses who wanted to see how basing was done. She is supposedly advising me on what colour manes etc go with what coloured body, so my horses are genetically correct, but nothing yet, hence not painted!
-
Hmmm maybe I would prefer marauder horse men, but they dont have the outrider legs of course. And you would need lances...
-
Lances are over rated :) Mine have a mix of combat weapons, and grenades, which count as hunting lances :)
-
I think I would make some with lances and then glue some frag grenade bitz on the ends :-D
-
I Don't like the idea of them having metal plate armour.
Well, considering cavalry warfare was finished in thw first world war, I guess any cavalry is silly!
But for some reason metal plate armour just seems daft to me.
-
Space marines have armor. So do Orks, Tau, CSM, Eldar.
-
Plates of armour are very fitting for the guard! They use various stuff. :P
-
Space marines have armor. So do Orks, Tau, CSM, Eldar.
but not armour like this
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9831/259375-ar006_h031_option_large.jpg)
-
The -massive- variety of cultures and planets of the Imperium actually means that yes, they quite easily could have armour like that.
If not a specially treated metal/substitute made to look like it, then they could/would wear it as tradition.
But that's not the point, it's Finlay's army so he can do what he wants.
-
Well, I meant Tau, SM, Orks and Eldar didn't have armour like that.
I like how they forgot to raise the prices of the metal squads, so buying 10 old metal troopers is only Ģ2.50 more than 10 plastic cadians.
what were the cadians a few years ago, Ģ18 for 20?
-
Well any and all close combat weapons are kind of silly in the 41k millenium if you think about it so cavalry is fine.
If you dislike the plating I urge you to use the Perry napoleonics they are armour free I guess you would even like the fancy hat Hussars.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_69-jWJpf4S8/TFjYwN3KnzI/AAAAAAAABgo/HYKCF2fKHLQ/s1600/9th+hussars.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_69-jWJpf4S8/TFjYwN3KnzI/AAAAAAAABgo/HYKCF2fKHLQ/s1600/9th+hussars.JPG)
http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2009/jun/133035d.jpg (http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2009/jun/133035d.jpg)
(I do love the horses)
Do it you k now you want it.
-
Napoleon cavalry sounds like the real shit to use for Rough riders. Damn, I am getting so tempted.
-
CCS, lascannon, 70
5 ratlings, 50
Platoon command squad, Chimera with 2 heavy flamers, 4 flamers, 105,
2x infantry squad with flamers, 110
Platoon command squad, Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher, 45.
Infantry Squad with Heavy Bolter, Grenade Launcher 65
2 x Infantry Squad with Autocannon and Grenade Launcher, 130
Veteran squad, Chimera, 3 plasma guns, 1 Missile Launcher 185
Veteran squad, Chimera, 3 meltas, Demolitions 185
8 Rough Riders, 85
Basilisk 125
LRBT, HB sponsons 170
LRD, HB sponsons 185
85 Guardsmen, 5 ratlings, 8 rough riders, 2 tanks, 3 transports and an artillery piece.
10 pts over. Drop a RR or a ratler?
-
Hey Finlay,
What role do you see your LRBT doing? If its sitting back firing, it doesn't need sponsons due to the huge range on the main gun. Obviously you may play wysisyg so may not have the option of removing sponsons but I would do if you have the options. Like the other two tanks though, as the Demolisher is short ranged, it may as well have sponsons.
If it were me [and I am not saying I am brilliant or anything] I would drop one of your PCS units, and attach their squads to the remaining one. You can then use the spare points to finance some plasma/meltaguns for the CCS, or indeed an advisor or two [M.o.Ordinance for example if your sitting back]
-
I thought it was best to have sponsons to make use of "lumbering behemoth"
I kept the 2 platoons for the extra Heavy bolter, but I guess it isn't a big deal to lose it.
-
Lumbering Behemoth allows you to fire your turret in addition to any other weapons you can fire. I beleive it works something like this;
So, dont move = fire everything
Move 1-6 = fire 1 gun + turret
Move 6+ = cant fire
I dont see how sponsons help Finlay? You could transfer that heavy bolter to one of your other platoons, or your melta vets if you want to keep it.
Let us know how your list does. Its always good to see guard armies winning :-D
-
I wont be playing, at least not for ages, but I just want some focus to my collecting/painting.
Plus I like writing army lists.
surely the sponsons are useful when the enemy are close though- 3 HB and the main gun will annihilate infantry!
-
My inquisition army is going to be so outnumbered.
Would Mordheim witchunter zealots look OK as rogue psychers? I'm not sure what else to use.
Also, are plasma guns any good? Surely meltaguns are much better?
Its always good to see guard armies winning :-D
From what I've read, imperial guard are now one of the best armies in the game!
-
Also, are plasma guns any good? Surely meltaguns are much better?
Depends on the job. Meltaguns are better generalists, but Plasma has rapid fire. Which helps a lot if the target is heavy infantry or a monstrous creature.
-
Surely the extra range is useful?
I guess squads with heavy weapons in want plasma guns.
-
Plasma are the terminator/marine killing weapons of choice, and thus should always be included, even against things like Orks!. Pretty much half the available armies and more than half the games you will ever play feature either power or terminator armour equivalents. Melta are obviously vastly better than plasma at tank killing, but have only have half the shots of plasma at 12 inches. My plasma vets throw down 7 plasma shots at 12 inches, more than enough to vaporise a marine combat squad!
Regarding the unleashing all your guns Finlay, in my experience, I often choose not to fire the heavy bolters on my LRBT because of wound allocation rules. Say you inflict 5 wounds on 5 marines with your battlecannon, that is 5 dead marines if they are in the open. If you fire the 3 heavy bolters as well, you could inflict say another 4 wounds, which could be allocated to allow the marines chances of survival by stacking two of the savable wounds on one or more models. [EG marine 1 and 2 stack the 4 heavy bolter wounds, while marines 3,4 and 5 take the battle cannon wounds]
If they are in cover though, you might as well fire the heavy bolters.
Depends on your main gun though. If you tanks main gun has the same or worse AP than the heavy bolters, stick bolters on it. EG my Punisher throws down 29 s5 shots a turn.
Rogue psykers can be done cheaply by Flaggies Rufus, they look pretty good as raving looney wizards IMO.
EDIT: Finlay, I hope you dont think I am being harsh or overly critical, I am just trying to convey what has happened to me in the past! Sorry if it looks like it :(
-
Space marines have armor. So do Orks, Tau, CSM, Eldar.
but not armour like this
(http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/0/9831/259375-ar006_h031_option_large.jpg)
That doesn't look like pistoliers legs. That looks like armor worn by a knight. That would be a bit different to include in 40K, to say the least.
-
Regarding the unleashing all your guns Finlay, in my experience, I often choose not to fire the heavy bolters on my LRBT because of wound allocation rules. Say you inflict 5 wounds on 5 marines with your battlecannon, that is 5 dead marines if they are in the open. If you fire the 3 heavy bolters as well, you could inflict say another 4 wounds, which could be allocated to allow the marines chances of survival by stacking two of the savable wounds on one or more models. [EG marine 1 and 2 stack the 4 heavy bolter wounds, while marines 3,4 and 5 take the battle cannon wounds]
EDIT: Finlay, I hope you dont think I am being harsh or overly critical, I am just trying to convey what has happened to me in the past! Sorry if it looks like it :(
That sounds mental/wrong.
Guess I need to buy the rulebook!
Not at all, I wouldn't put the list up if I didn't want advice.
-
Yeah thats how wound allocation works. In an ideal world, you need to take the same AP guns. Eg the Excecutioner with plasma sponsons/or multimeltas with a front lascannon for maximum marine slaughtering.
You just need to run the maths before deciding if its worth firing the bolters, so always fire your big gun first. If you wound the whole squad, dont fire anything else :)
Your list seems more or less fine, you take more guys than I do, I rely a lot on my armour :) Well armour and a massively pimped out HQ command squad. I usually give all my commanders power fists too :)
-
The problem is wound allocation. You allocate wounds by numbers, and models with different equipment form different wound groups. So let's assume you have 4 T4 Models with a 3+ save and 2 wounds each, all of them with slightly different kit. All of them get wounded by a Battlecannon (S8 AP3) and they take another 4 wounds from Heavy Bolter shells (S5 AP4).
So we have 8 wounds and 4 wound groups, who roll for saves separately. You allocate all 4 BC wounds (which instant kill due to S8) to 2 models, and the remaining 2 get 2 HB hits each. Result: you will lose 2 Models and most likely keep the other 2 alive. If only the BC had hit all 4 would be dead (all would have received an ID wound with no armor save).
This change was originally intended to make models with special weapons in units more vulnerable than in 4th, but actually opened the door for some pretty sick shenanigans.
-
Ork Nobz on Motorcycles?!
-
You just need to run the maths before deciding if its worth firing the bolters, so always fire your big gun first. If you wound the whole squad, dont fire anything else :)
I think the rules state that you have to tell your opponent what guns you choose to shoot with before rolling any dice?
-
Do you McKnight? That is entirely possible, I normally do anyway. I only take sponsons on my punisher most of the time, or plasma sponsons on my Executioner and Demolisher.
The key is to ensure that all of your shots either need them to make a save, or not make a save. Mixing savable hits with unsaveable is just not useful. That is the key here. If they are in cover, you might as well fire all of your shots as they will still get a save of sorts.
The nob bikers take this to a further extreme, as they have multiple wounds whihc cant stack, so if you are lucky/cunning, you can ensure you take a wound on each model before 1 dies, which is contrary to most GW systems for wounding.
-
By "lucky/cunning" I assume you meant "annoying".
As it simply took zero "luck" or "cunning".
-
Well there is still an element of luck, you can fail saves etc.
Annoying is probably a more accurate description, I will agree with you there MrDWhitey.
-
I often choose not to fire the heavy bolters on my LRBT because of wound allocation rules. Say you inflict 5 wounds on 5 marines with your battlecannon, that is 5 dead marines if they are in the open. If you fire the 3 heavy bolters as well, you could inflict say another 4 wounds, which could be allocated to allow the marines chances of survival by stacking two of the savable wounds on one or more models. [EG marine 1 and 2 stack the 4 heavy bolter wounds, while marines 3,4 and 5 take the battle cannon wounds]
That is so stupid.
I thought people said this game was good!
-
It is. There are a few, special cases where the rules are clunky however.
Wound allocation is rarely much of a problem, but certain (infamous) unit builds are designed to take maximum advantage of this inconsistency. The most notorious offenders being Nob Bikers.
One addendum: In Crimsons example all the marines would die anyway if they are similarly equipped. You roll all saves of one wound group at once, so if you have 5 marines with bolters they still all die in his example. If you have 5 marines wiht different kit it's another story.
-
That is so stupid.
I thought people said this game was good!
It is good. It has issues (but what game doesn't?), but given your proclivities to swing hyperbolically on minor issues I can understand that you have that reaction.
:engel:
Wound allocation is rarely much of a problem
Once you get used to doing it, yes. Annoyingly, people here often don't bother with it, and get uppity when I insist. Then again, that was like, a year ago. I have no idea what it'll be like now. The new people at our club seem to play it right, and there's enough of them to resist the "oldbies" usual attempt at forcing their interpretation/rewrites of the rules.
-
Well, I expect the new edition next year will change that rule anyway.
I'm definitely not buying a rulebook!
-
One addendum: In Crimsons example all the marines would die anyway if they are similarly equipped. You roll all saves of one wound group at once, so if you have 5 marines with bolters they still all die in his example. If you have 5 marines wiht different kit it's another story.
Thats not quite correct Aldaris. Taking my example, 5 battle cannon wounds, and 4 heavy bolter wounds on 5 marines. You would only need 3 different types of marines to get a benificial result.
Say you have a sergent, a special or heavy weapon and 3 bolter guys. This is just about the most common set up of marines. You divide the wounds like this. Put 2 heavy bolter wounds on the sarg, 2 on the flamer, and the remaining 5 go on the 3 normal chaps who die outright. You are still dividing the wounds correctly.
The other point is, it is never an issue whatsoever if your unit can't put more wounds on the enemy than you have shots. For example, you cant do wound allocation bearding if you only inflict 7 wounds on a 10 man squad, no matter how many wounds you infict. If in my origional example there were 10 marines, it totally would be worth firing the heavy bolters....
However, they would still all have died if you had only just fired the battle cannon.
It is worth pointing out that this is just about the only stupid rule, and generally 40k works really well. The simple way to avoid this is to just take weapons that compliment each other. Eg either rate of fire or armour penetrating ones.
I beleive 6th edition is going back to 4th edition for wound allocation. I am unsure that it will be an improvement though...
-
Bottom line is you need sufficient wound groups to do those things.
:::cheers:::
And according to the 6th ed rumors on warseer, every 5th wound will be targetted IIRC. So 4 casualties are removed by the owner and one by the opponent. Subject to exceptions, elaborations and what have you, but I think that was the gist of it.
-
I beleive that is how it was in 4th ed Aldaris.
Of course when you are using guard, it usually doesn't matter what gun shoots you. Most ranged weapons completely negate your save anyway so Finlay doesn't really have to worry about this rule himself!
-
Company Commander! (given to me by Aldaris)
Not entirely pleased with him.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000457.jpg)
Autocannon
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000458.jpg)
I'm trying a few guardsmen with grey armour, so I might need ot be repainting them all if I prefer it.
-
@ Crimson: not quite - in 4th edition only the controlling player removed casualties, which is why the guys with the special weapons and the Sarge would always last until the end. The wound allocation rules were implemented in 5th to remedy that, but obviously introduced a new problem.
If the 6th edition allocation rules really work as rumored that would be a problem for some guard builds - the commisar in big blob squads could be picked out again if enough wounds are inflicted.
@ Finlay: those look great! Very pleased what you did with the commander.
:::cheers:::
And I really need to pick up a third 40K army at some point. Perhaps the new Necrons...? I love getting excited about new stuff. Due to the bash I barely resisted the Grey Knights temptation, we'll see what happens when the next new book comes around.
:-D
-
surely the squaddies could just pick up the special weapon dropped by the dead guy?
In that close up I can see like 3 spots of messiness. Have to tidy them now!
I've finished some grey armour guys, but camera battery has died,so I'll have to put them up tomorrow and see what people think.
-
My solution to being put off 40K by reading about it: don't read about it.
Easy!
The wound allocation thing probably never matters anyway. Maybe it's like the building rules in fantasy, or all that stuff about scary trees made of blood or whatever the hell they put in the terrain rules.
On another matter, I am confused by razorbacks: a transport that you can only fit six people in. What good is that?
Company Commander!
That looks great. I like that model.
Nice cannon thing too.
-
On another matter, I am confused by razorbacks: a transport that you can only fit six people in. What good is that?
It can carry a heavy weapon, which is nice for some styles of play (notably MSU). You trade transport capacity for firepower (and points).
-
I realise that. But I can't see what I'm going to do with six guys, unless it's a purgation squad and I want to drive four incinerators up close to someone. But if it moves quickly, it can't fire the gun.
And the lascannon is really expensive, but it's the only one that gives me something I can't have anyway.
Still, the kit is better value for money than a rhino, since you get a complete rhino plus the gun turret for the same price as just the rhino...
-
It's not my style either, but you can get 6 cheap henchmen squads with Coteaz and have lots of Troop choices with decent firepower and a tank each. But yeah, I prefer Rhinos with bigger squads as well.
-
Henchmen can have chimeras though, and as far as I can tell chimeras are better than razorbacks.
I don't want more than two or three vehicles anyway.
-
I did a trooper with grey armour, one with grey armour and shoulders, and one with grey armour, pads and hat. I think I prefer "all grey".
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/partgreyfront.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/partgreyback.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/allgreyfront.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/allgreyback.jpg)
So time to repaint the lot do you think?
-
I like the all grey one.
But the different colours could be for different squads maybe? Depending on how many you've painted already.
-
I like the all grey one best of all too, and it makes the most sense as well. Green for cloth, grey for armor.
-
Skip the lining on the top of the helmet!
-
Looking good Finlay! :-D
Regarding Razorbacks, there are a few uses in normal marine lists that I can think of. I doubt GK will ever have enough spare points to field them :-D
You buy them as a dedicated transport, so they don't eat up heavy support slots. If you have the old school twin-plasma and a lascannon varient, thats very powerful, as is the twin lascannon you can make from the box. They can be substitute predators [kind of].
The key IMO is to forget they are transports for the most part, just use them as fire support, although smaller squads, like sternguard or command squads can make a fair amount of use with them ferrying the guys around. This also applies if you have split a ten man unit into two 5 man squads, as you can leave your heavy weapon half to give covering fire for the special weapon/sergent half in the Razorback.
-
I like the all grey one.
But the different colours could be for different squads maybe? Depending on how many you've painted already.
Only 20 guys, plus the commander and autocannon team. Don't think it'll take TOO long.
Skip the lining on the top of the helmet!
ok.
Aldaris and Crimson, thanks.
-
Regarding Razorbacks, there are a few uses in normal marine lists that I can think of. I doubt GK will ever have enough spare points to field them
That's true. I quite want one though!
Maybe have it show up with no one in it, and just teleport the grey knights in.
Don't think it'll take TOO long.
Do it then, because they look better grey!
I like how you always photograph your miniatures against a really distracting background...
-
When I've sorted out all the models I will take proper pictures of them.
Still need to figure out what to do with the tanks though!
Do you think it's ok to just have regular guardsmen in my Company Command Squad? Or should I make some of the veterans with extra kit and pig iron heads or something?
-
Do it then, because they look better grey!
I like how you always photograph your miniatures against a really distracting background...
Camoflage, I'm sure.
Imagine being an Ork trying to pick those guys out against that background. Although it does give them an excuse for being BS2
- - -
Finlay ... I like the green and the grey, and the idea of keeping the squads separate that way.
-
You can use normal guardsmen in your command squad Finlay, but I use Outrider helmets for mine, makes them stand out a bit. The only issue I have with this is that if I decide to switch them around a bit, I often have a mismatched unit, which looks stupid!
-
Since they are veterans by default (a command squad can't have anything else) there's no reason to make them look different unless you want to.
Though I think there's no reason to make veteran squads look different to non-veterans either. Unless you want to.
if I decide to switch them around a bit, I often have a mismatched unit, which looks stupid!
The imperial guard army book seems to suggest that mismatched units are extremely common - it says casualties are replaced with anyone available, regardless of where they are from or what uniform they wear.
By the way, I agree with whoever it was that said the grey knights army book has ludicrous fluff. It really does.
-
By the way, I agree with whoever it was that said the grey knights army book has ludicrous fluff. It really does.
I hate to say it, but the blame lies with the Author. I am sure we all know who that is. He made a hash of the Blood Angels fluff as well [best buddies with Necrons? Hello, have you ever read 40k background you didn't write/butcher]
I started off using alternative heads on my vets, borrowing from my supplies of free company, bretonians, chaos marauders, empire soldiers etc. However I actually think just taking 3 special weapons is enough to make them vets, since normal units can't have that many anyway.
I am tempted to buy some of the metal guardsmen ranges to compliment my army. Due to either an oversight or plain idiocy, the old school metals are pretty much the same price as the current plastics. Doh!
-
it's hilarious! Ģ2.50 more for the old metals.
Apart from one squad which for some reason is Ģ25.
-
The writing itself is really low quality. You can always tell Ward is writing something if you see "Such...", "So it was/is" and similar lame arse attempts to write what he thinks is an epic style multiple times a page.
-
By the way, I agree with whoever it was that said the grey knights army book has ludicrous fluff. It really does.
I hate to say it, but the blame lies with the Author. I am sure we all know who that is. He made a hash of the Blood Angels fluff as well [best buddies with Necrons? Hello, have you ever read 40k background you didn't write/butcher
Wondering why anyone, yes, that's correct, anyone at GW allows such garbage to be placed in an army book.
-
My thoughts on that GamesPoet are as follows. Either;
a. No one proof reads the codex book and these idiocies are in print before anyone can do anything about it, so they have to go along with it.
b. They market the game to new gamers who don't know/care about the old fluff and are doing all they can to big it all up so people spend their hard earned cash on the new army.
c. They hate us older gamer and want to upset us deliberately.
c. Some combination of the three above.
What I suppose is ironic is that many of us older gamers complain when they recycle fluff from edition to edition!
-
b. They market the game to new gamers who don't know/care about the old fluff
I don't really know or care about old fluff, and I still thought the grey knight stuff was bad. And badly written, as Sig said.
But I like the general idea and theme of the grey knights and the inquisition. I don't care about the details. So it's fine!
Apart from one squad which for some reason is Ģ25
Yes, I'm confused by that.
I'm just hoping they don't suddenly raise the prices on metal guardsmen, or replace them with resin or something!
Not that you can't find loads of them on ebay anyway though.
-
I'm just hoping they don't suddenly raise the prices on metal guardsmen, or replace them with resin or something!
Not that you can't find loads of them on ebay anyway though.
Then they might go the way of Praetorian prices - the Mordians and Tallarns and Valhallans still fetch reasonable prices on ebay, and if you buy new, the special weapons are highly priced - the metal Cadians don't seem so popular and come cheaper.
-
You don't have any you want to sell do you?
-
My thoughts on that GamesPoet are as follows. Either;
a. No one proof reads the codex book and these idiocies are in print before anyone can do anything about it, so they have to go along with it.
b. They market the game to new gamers who don't know/care about the old fluff and are doing all they can to big it all up so people spend their hard earned cash on the new army.
c. They hate us older gamer and want to upset us deliberately.
c. Some combination of the three above.
What I suppose is ironic is that many of us older gamers complain when they recycle fluff from edition to edition!
Proof reading doesn't mean its being read for content. Newgamers might not know the old fluff, but they aren't likely to initally care, and evidently the powers that be at GW dont' seme to care either. I seriously doubt they hate old gamers because we spend money, too.
As I think about this more, its probably just one writer putting together what he thinks is good, putting his own stamp on things so to speak, and doing a bad job. Probably whoever he reports to isn't paying that much attention to the fluff side of things, since the real money makers are the figures, rules, and supporting materials, not the fluff. However, if someone is actually monitoring the fluff, they need to do a better job as well.
-
The guy who wrote Imperial Armour 9&10 is actually much better. I think he's writing the Warhammer Forge book as well. It's not award winning literature but far more readable and quite enjoyable.
-
You don't have any you want to sell do you?
I have 70 metal Cadians, and I'm not sharing. They cost me half per guardsman of what it would to buy plastics.
-
The issue is Matt Ward is clearly not a bad writer from GW management perspective, as he has been let loose on a large amount of the new codex books in 40k. So GW clearly don't care what he is putting is terrible, as long as it sells.
I used to enjoy the fluff in the older army books. Some of the ones I have from the 90s [4th ed undead book comes to mind] have some really good fluff in. The more recent books, especially in the last year or two, are a steaming pile of..... well you get the idea.
On the plus side, a lot of the 5th ed books he has written are quite well done from a rules perspective. Not all, but most of the Matt Ward books do have a number of competative builds, where the older 4th edition books sometimes really struggle to make a competative build against 5th edition books.
-
Writing rules and fluff are two different things. If they got the same person doing both, obviously no guarantee that both will be done well. In a way, I suppose having only decently written rules is better than only having decently written fluff, but having both is possible and worth aiming for.
-
You don't have any you want to sell do you?
I have 70 metal Cadians, and I'm not sharing. They cost me half per guardsman of what it would to buy plastics.
Metal cadians go for hardly anything on ebay.
tallarns/mordians/valhallans seem to go for between 15-20 a squad.
I'm hoping some mispelling of Valhallans means I can get them cheap, although I think I like the Tallarn's best.
Also, if I buy a Chimera new, will it have the bits to make flamers?
-
It comes with the heavy flamer chassis gun Finlay if that is what you are asking :) As well as heavy flamer and heavy bolter turret options.
-
it's hilarious! Ģ2.50 more for the old metals.
Apart from one squad which for some reason is Ģ25.
The Tallarns have two special weapons I think whereas the others are just straight up troopers apart from the sergeants.
The sets available now are not all the originals - there were other troopers/sergeants outside the box sets.
-
If I recall correctly, Tallarns can still be purchased via GW. They are probably my favorite of the alternative Imperial Guard.
-
they can all be purchased from GW, but i'd rather buy 14 quid on ebay than 25 quid from GW.
-
Understandable. :icon_cool:
-
It is even unflappable.
-
I was playing an Apoc game the other day. My Assault Termie squad took 24 wounds, and failed 8 armor saves. It was spectacular!
-
I just bought a squad of tallarns, watching another.
I'm thinkin Al rahem, I'm thinking a chimelta platoon command squad, and a blob squad of foot stompers with meltas, sergeants with plasma pistols and power swords, and a comissar with power sword and plasma, and then a SWS with flamers (only problem is Tallarns dont come with flamers).
Do you think it would be better just to mech up 2 squads?
-
Frankly meching up is no better than letting the terrorists win!
-
How many chimera's is too many in 1500 then?
Becuase if I meched that platoon, it would be 4, if not 2.
-
How many chimera's is too many in 1500 then?
Becuase if I meched that platoon, it would be 4, if not 2.
4 Chimeras is totally fine.
-
If you use foot guys with Al Rahem, aren't they just in danger of being stranded nowhere useful?
-
I played a guy who used Al rahem that way. Without the transports. it was against the old daemon hunters so I was totally outnumbered.
Anyway it worked out great, he came in on the side where I had some of my troops and well totally ruled my movement by it, because i had to keep the meltas out of range and didnt have enough firepower to remove all of the enemy.
Doesn't Al rahem have a order that makes the unit run and then shoot?
-
I think it is shoot and then run....something about sand leaving with the wind.
-
If you come onto the board within 12" of Inquisitor Cortez and his squad, they get to immediately shoot at you for free! Strength 5 storm bolters in the face!
I need to buy chimeras on ebay, but they need to not be horrible assembled.
-
If you come onto the board within 12" of Inquisitor Cortez and his squad, they get to immediately shoot at you for free! Strength 5 storm bolters in the face!
All that makes me want to do is put everyone in Chimeras!
Al rahem can order a unit to shoot and then run d6 inches.
-
Two psycannons might kill a chimera! Eight S7 shots.
Most likely though you just wouldn't come on within 12" of him.
-
Platoon
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000497-1.jpg)
HB squad
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000501.jpg)
Company commander in grey.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000505-1-1.jpg)
-
If you come onto the board within 12" of Inquisitor Cortez and his squad, they get to immediately shoot at you for free! Strength 5 storm bolters in the face!
I need to buy chimeras on ebay, but they need to not be horrible assembled.
Used to be able to do that with any inquisitor if you had a Mystic henchman. In fact, if you had two you could select another unit to do the shooting with. Like a Purgation squad. Used to be the only way to deal with Daemon bombs.
-
Finlay: looks good! When are you going to send me the parts so I can convert your rough riders for you?
-
I cant make the pictures look normal!
They look normal on the IG forum.
Technofail
CoD, Rufus is sending me 4 rough riders, so I am trying to buy 4 more attilans.
-
I cant make the pictures look normal!
They look normal on the IG forum.
Technofail
They look fine to me. Though a minute ago they looked weirdly extended.
The models look great anyway. Nice colour scheme.
used to be able to do that with any inquisitor if you had a Mystic henchman.
Really?
I wish I didn't have to use a special character to make my army possible. Stupid special-character-dependent armybooks!
-
I fixed the pictures. I wish it wasn't so dark here atm! and that I could take non blurry photos. At least it gives an idea of what they look like.
Are you going to invent your own fluff and have him "counts as"? I think that's what they encourage.
I actually think Al Rahem is pretty cool though.
Way cooler than Chenkov's fluff.
-
I don't really mind Cortez's fluff (he's not ridiculous like Drago). I just don't like having to take him in every list if I want to be able to use my army.
Most of the characters in the imperial guard book are OK fluffwise. Yarrick is still cool.
I bought two painted chimeras on ebay! I hope they are nice, or I will be very sad!
I wish it wasn't so dark here atm!
Another lovely summer in England.
-
There is an IG forum?
-
Are three transports (one rhino, two chimeras) enough for my grey knights army?
There is an IG forum?
At least two!
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Boot_Camp/index.php?
http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi
Both a bit bad for the eyes: dark backgrounds with light text!
-
Finlay ... I think your Guard came out very well. They look good all lined up together like that! :::cheers:::
-
GP: thanks!
I just bought a squad of tallarns, minus heavy weapons, for 8 quid including P and P! So thats 2 squads for 25 quid including postage and packaging. Result.
Now just need to buy some melta Tallarns, and convert some flamer Tallarns...
Rufus, how much did the Chimera's run you?
I'm struggling with my army composition- there is so much cool stuff in the IG it makes it really hard to choose. The sign of a great book, imo.
-
I cant make the pictures look normal!
They look normal on the IG forum.
Technofail
CoD, Rufus is sending me 4 rough riders, so I am trying to buy 4 more attilans.
But I don't want to have to start IG just to be able to do the conversions!!!! ARGH!
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7805/panic8hq.gif)
-
I play 1850 mostly Finlay, and I usually field 4-5 chimera. I could probably field more, if I owned more.
My lists usually look vaguely like this.
HQ CCS + chimera
Troops: melta vets + chimera
Troops: plasma vets + chimera
Troops: Platoon
PCS with flamers + chimera
2-5 squads of infantry with special and heavy weapons
Collossus
Manticore
Russ variant
That usually leaves around 200 ish for fast attack and elites which I vary quite a lot.
-
I just bought a squad of tallarns, minus heavy weapons, for 8 quid including P and P! So thats 2 squads for 25 quid including postage and packaging. Result.
Now just need to buy some melta Tallarns, and convert some flamer Tallarns...
This one?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260818196185
I had that in my Watch list and was going to bid until I saw your earlier post, and guessed you might be on it.
-
GP: thanks!
I like your color scheme so much I might either borrow it or at least use some sort of two-tone look for mine.
- - -
(GP :icon_eek: ... you don't have an IG army.)
No kidding.
(Well what are you talking about?)
Probably only a matter of time for an adding an IG army to my Orks and Space Marines happens. And maybe Tau, too.
(Uh boy. :icon_rolleyes: )
Course there's the WF shock troops that might get used for IG as well.
(Need I remind you of all your WFB and historical interests? :icon_wink: )
Probably best to save that for other threads. :icon_lol:
-
I just bought a squad of tallarns, minus heavy weapons, for 8 quid including P and P! So thats 2 squads for 25 quid including postage and packaging. Result.
Now just need to buy some melta Tallarns, and convert some flamer Tallarns...
This one?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260818196185
I had that in my Watch list and was going to bid until I saw your earlier post, and guessed you might be on it.
Yep. I don't think I will be buying anymore atm though, and I think I probably only need some melta Tallarns anyway.
-
Rufus, how much did the Chimera's run you?
Ģ20 for two, plus 3.50 postage.
They are painted, but the image was a bit murky so I really hope they are OK! But since new ones cost ~20 each, and then you still have to assemble and paint the wretched things, I think it was a risk worth taking.
There are a lot of chimeras on ebay, but demand is high and they usually go at around Ģ15.
I've been a bit ebay-happy recently, so I need to stop going on there (no more metal grey knights in power armour! You have twenty!). All I really need for my grey knights army now is five terminators... and maybe a second rhino.
I won an auction yesterday that had no picture, and may either be absurdly good value or totally horrible.
-
I have now hoarded too many metal IG minis not to make an army. Need to include renamed low level special characters too. Mostly light stuff. A single Russ just for kicks and my converted Devil Dog (made from a plastic kit of an M8 armoured car.
-
my converted Devil Dog (made from a plastic kit of an M8 armoured car.
That sounds cool! Let's see a picture.
Quick 40K question for 40K rules-ers: let's say I have a chimera as a dedicated transport for a henchmen squad, but I want a grey knights squad to ride in it instead. Do I have to deploy the chimera empty, and the grey knights next to the chimera's access point, and then have the grey knights get onto the chimera on my first turn? If I do that, can the chimera move on the same turn? Can it move at top speed?
-
Quick 40K question for 40K rules-ers: let's say I have a chimera as a dedicated transport for a henchmen squad, but I want a grey knights squad to ride in it instead. Do I have to deploy the chimera empty, and the grey knights next to the chimera's access point, and then have the grey knights get onto the chimera on my first turn? If I do that, can the chimera move on the same turn? Can it move at top speed?
Yes to all three questions.
-
You should also imagine them chanting: "Hup, hup, hup, hup, hup" as they file into the Chimera. I did this as I read your post, and it made me happy.
-
I didn't realise the HWT couldn't fire 1 las gun. Seems a bit lame. I'll probably try and fire it until someone tells me not to.
-
Here are some older pics. I have made a closed turret with a hatch and a IG crewman looking out. Not painted yet since I droped my last IG project and showered my son with more IG minis he would not refuse to have...
But a small die hard force of vets, mostly footsloogers (no stupid Leafblower abuse list for me) seems and feels doable and probably fun... I got some sweet inspiration from reading a book about the first siege of Tobruk in 1941 when a bunch of aussie diggers, indians and brits, later also reinforced with poles held of Rommel and taught him a lesson. Overall, the number if different nationalities on the "british" side in the desert war makes for a perfect inspiriation in constructing a scraped together force. In honour of the aussie battalions who spent the longest time in Tobruk and who proudly marched out as the siege was lifted after operation Crusader I will probably call the regiment 2/13 Tobrokia.
They are the remants of a garrison who was ordered to hold an Imperial space port until death if necessary against a shrewdly commanded Ork Waaagh, especially a combined Blood Axe/Speed freeks warband lead by the dashing and cunning blood axe warboss Rommulz.
Under the command of the stubborn commisar lord Ming and Colonel Moreheads the garrison held out despite shrinking due to relentless assaults and aireal bombardments. The survivors were nothing but remants of a dozen different units, but thanks to the charismatic leaders and their shared expirience had become a regiment of their own, an All-Imperial regiment of sort. Commisar Ming resisted all attempts to divide the warhardened veterans on different regiments and managed to get a semi-official recognizion of the formation as the 2/13 Tobrokian combat team as the Imperium was in dire need of high quality fighting forces.
The regiments are mostly infantry, but have a handful or Leman Russ of varied patterns. But the favoured heavy support is the Griffon, since it is lighter and more easily air deployable. The armour element is otherwise made up of sentinels and a mixed squadron of light hellhound variants and more rare vehicles of similar purpose. Among them are a few rare examples of the Tobrokian manufactured Bloodhound armoured car, intended for fast recon and tank hunting.
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto306.jpg)
(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c139/Nemomatti/Warhammerpics/Foto305.jpg)
-
HB squad. Now I have 4 infantry squads completed.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000507.jpg)
-
Well done, Finlay!
-
last day of paternit leave today :(
I've been doing so much painting while Ted has been asleep or feeding.
-
last day of paternit leave today :(
I've been doing so much painting while Ted has been asleep or feeding.
I never got Paternity Leave. Must be nice. :::cheers:::
-
Paternity Leave = Painting Leave
:icon_lol:
-
Looking good Finlay. I am very jealous of the basing on your guardsmen, it looks really good.
Otherwise your colour scheme is fairly similar to mine, and is therefore really good lol :-D
Im struggling for motivation, I dont know whether to paint one of my forge world dreadnaughts, or another guardsmen squad. Anyone have a preference? Ill post up the photos :-)
-
The basing is really easy.
I put some clay on some of the bases to add a bit of uneven ground.
Then tix 2 grades of grit I bought from a hobby store.
Paint scorched brown, drybrush calthan brown, drybrush bleached bone.
Then PVA glue a bit of static grass on. Mine is all green, but would probsbly be better with some different shades.
Then PVA glue little clubs of the moss/bush stuff which Fr1day sent me, but you can by from hobby stores.
-
That does sound an awful lot Finlay. Mine takes long enough using just pva, brown paint and flock!
If you are interested in advice for list building guard, I can point you towards a site I use for 40k advice if you want? That is if I am allowed to link other sites!
-
Not really, just painting some grit and gluing some flock on! MY orc and goblin bases take a lot longer.
I'm on the IGMB
-
What is IGMB?
I use 3++ is the new black, it has indepth looks at a lot of different armies
-
Can "3+++ is the new black" be translated for us non savvy internet browsers?
-
Might as well post my only painted 40k here. Should be the starting point for whenever I collect another army.
(http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii355/Eight-Warhammer/DSCF2018.jpg)
-
The basing is really easy.
I put some clay on some of the bases to add a bit of uneven ground.
Then tix 2 grades of grit I bought from a hobby store.
Paint scorched brown, drybrush calthan brown, drybrush bleached bone.
Then PVA glue a bit of static grass on. Mine is all green, but would probsbly be better with some different shades.
Then PVA glue little clubs of the moss/bush stuff which Fr1day sent me, but you can by from hobby stores.
Sent you a pm inquiring about this, and thanks for sharing this! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
-
The basing is really easy.
I put some clay on some of the bases to add a bit of uneven ground.
Then tix 2 grades of grit I bought from a hobby store.
Paint scorched brown, drybrush calthan brown, drybrush bleached bone.
Then PVA glue a bit of static grass on. Mine is all green, but would probsbly be better with some different shades.
Then PVA glue little clubs of the moss/bush stuff which Fr1day sent me, but you can by from hobby stores.
Sent you a pm inquiring about this, and thanks for sharing this! :icon_biggrin: :icon_cool:
That's why I typed it out. Happy to help! :happy:
-
Nice termies Mike-Mike!
-
Yea not a problem,
http://kirbysblog-ic.blogspot.com/p/codex-reviews.html
This has quite a few indepth looks at the different 40k codex books. I really enjoy the site, and they talk a lot of sense.
-
Since Finlay is putting up lots of guardsmen, I thought I would put some close ups of my guard armour. Hope you like them.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300359.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300360.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300363.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300364.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300367.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300369.jpg)
-
Hope you like them.
They look amazing! Send them all to me!
How do you paint them?
-
Hope you like them.
They look amazing! Send them all to me!
How do you paint them?
With a brush!
www.instantrimshot.com (http://www.instantrimshot.com)
-
Painting was easy, I managed to paint all 6 Russ tanks in one day using this simple method.
I used Army Painter Uniform Grey as undercoat, as per all of my guard models. This was done a day or so in advance, so maybe me claiming they were all painted in one day is a bit of a stretch!
I then painted the Blue bits, Fenris Grey [as this is the same colour I use for my guard models armour plates/helmets].
The guns were painted Orkhide Shade and Boltgun Metal
The tracks and exhausts were painted Tin Bitz
The yellow is Iyanden Darksun
Then I drown the model in as much Devlan Mud as I can get on it, this does all my shading. highlighting etc, and it obviously collects towards the bottom of the model, giving me a kind of weathering/dirt and grime effect.
So far my Guard army has used 4 full pots of Devlan Mud. It isn't working out an especially cheap painting method! I think for future armies, I will be using an alternative shading method, perhaps an Army Painter Quickshade, which seems considerably cheaper than GW.
Finally, apply the transfers, then use matt varnish to ensure the transfers dont keep coming off.
Some of the models have other steps, primarily if they have plasma weapons, but it is a straight forward process.
-
Well, they look great! Thanks for the info on how you did them.
I still don't want to paint tanks though.
-
Oh my god armour!
awesome.
-
Just for you Finlay, I thought I would post up most of my painted guard foot units too :) I have included two different perspectives and one using flash that I am not too sure about!
You can see there I have a massive PCS, three CCS, two vet squads, one stormtrooper unit, one penal legion [catachans] and four infantry platoon squads. Still to paint I have another one or two infantry units, four heavy weapons squads, psyker battle squad, ratlings and rough riders. Oh yeah, and a bunch of "options"
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300371.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300373.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300374.jpg)
-
Just to make this easier for people to identify my units, I have split them up into seperate photos.
First photo are my platoon squads.
Second Photo has my two veteren squads at the front, penal legion and stormtroopers at the back.
Third and fourth photos are my various command squads.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300377.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300378.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300384.jpg)
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb260/crimsonsphinx/S7300385.jpg)
Hope you all like these :-D
-
The armor is smashing! :icon_biggrin: :eusa_clap:
Appreciated seeing how those were painted, thank you. :icon_cool:
Enjoyed seeing the distribution of all that infantry, too. :::cheers:::
-
Nice models Crimson!
I'm having trouble with the grey knights army list. I can't get enough stuff into an army because things cost too many points.
How does this 1500 point list look?
HQ Cortez 100
elite 10 purifiers incinerator 283
psycannon
4 halberds
hammer
psybolts
rhino 40
10 purifiers incinerator 283
psycannon
4 halberds
hammer
psybolts
rhino 40
vindicare assassin 145
troops 10 henchmen 3 plasma guns 131
6 hot shot lasguns
jokaero
10 henchmen 3 melta guns 105
7 hot shot lasguns
10 henchmen 3 melta guns 105
7 hot shot lasguns
chimera 55
10 henchmen 5 death cult assassins 150
5 crusaders
chimera 55
total = 1492
Is this rubbish? Where do I put Cortez? Should the transports go with different units? Should I have more meltaguns? Does the death cult/ crusader unit need the chimera, or can they just run at the enemy? How does anyone make a decently-sized army using this book?
I may as well use two units of purifiers, since strike squads cost almost as much but aren't nearly as good.
I had to lose my second inquisitor, because he just seems like a waste of points. Also demonblades are weak.
-
I don't have the book so take it with a huge pinch of salt
are vindicare assasins worth 145 points?
That's almost a chimera melta henchmen squad.
-
The vindicare is pretty much the most awesome long range anti tank unit in the grey knights book. 4d6 armour pen, at ap1 means it only takes a slightly better than average roll, [15 rather than 14] to pen, and that gives a 50% chance of destroying said tank. Hits on a 2 as well.
I don't have a copy of the grey knights book on me at this moment, but the list is a bit confusing to me. Purifiers? Are they the unit with the shoot through walls psychic power?
I would save points and not get hotshot lasguns. You would be better having 5 decent guns [plasma or melta ideally] per henchman squad which can shoot out the hatch, and if you really want to include others, give them very basic gear, or alternatively take 5 crusaders/henchmen with carpace armour to throw spare wounds on.
-
Fair enough, sounds pretty scary to Guard! and long range AT needed for grey knights.
Tallarn test models.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000514-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000516.jpg)
They had blue on them already, and I quite liked it. But not convinced. Perhaps I should do it Green like the Cadian's tracksuits?
-
I am not sure either Finlay. I like how the blue is done, but it just doesnt look right to me. I cant put my finger on the reason for it though! I am not sure green will look better than the blue either, the blue stands out quite nicely.
What I normally do is google and search CMON for colour schemes. See what I can steal off vastly more talented painters than myself. :-D
Alternatively, and IMO equally valid, is to look at historical warriors who fought with similar get up, and copy their paint scheme. I would guess the turbans [or whatever they are called] would most likely be an off white colour in RL.
Yea the vindicare is a beast. Not especially scary for guard, one leman russ tank shell and a failed dodge and thats your tank paid off. In the last game I saw the vindicare take out a land raider in a single hit from around 35 inches away. It is better than a lascannon at that range by quite a sizable amount and miles better than a multimelta apart from really close in. Although the vindicare *can* shoot other targets, his other ammo types are somewhat less brilliant.
The evesor is my personal favourite assassin. Gone are the days when he was incredibly poor. Now he is a combat machine, easily capable of ripping any small elite squad to bits. The only issue for me is, he only does things normal GKs can do, so the vindicare is IMO the better deal.
-
The blue is quite striking, but the green might be more in line with your theme. At the same time, some sort of an off-white, cream, bone, light tan, light brown, or maybe even a light grey color might also work.
However, these are Tallerns, so perhaps it depends on the fluff of your army and how they fit into it.
-
I might not need a vindicare if I could get an autocannon dreadnought! But GW make four plastic space marine dreadnoughts without a single autocannon between them. And forgeworld arms are absurdly expensive.
Anyway the vindicare is an awesome model. Easily the best-looking assassin.
Purifiers? Are they the unit with the shoot through walls psychic power?
No, they are the fearless Ld9 ones with two attacks, cheap halberds, and a psychic power than wounds every single model in combat with them on a 4+. They cost only 20 or so more points than a basic squad, but are elites.
Amazing.
I would save points and not get hotshot lasguns. You would be better having 5 decent guns [plasma or melta ideally] per henchman squad which can shoot out the hatch, and if you really want to include others, give them very basic gear, or alternatively take 5 crusaders/henchmen with carpace armour to throw spare wounds on.
Well, I can only get three special weapons per squad... and then it's either bolters, storm bolters or hot-shot lasguns for the rest. I'd use bolters, but all the models I have are armed with lasguns. So hotshots it is I'm afraid!
I want most of my henchmen squads to look like imperial guard units. Because it's cool, and because I want to use them in a guard army as well.
I've somehow ended up with no terminators, even though they are one of the things I wanted most! Oh well.
Tallarn test models.
They look awesome! Keep the blue: the blue is great.
-
Hi rufus,
You could just use spacemarine models as power armoured henchmen with bolters :)
Our GK player doesn't use Purifiers then. He prefers the ones who shoot through walls, and then terminators. Lots of terminators.
Forge world dreads aren't that bad for money are they? I bought three, and the last one was only in the last few months, it was around the same price as a normal GW one. You can buy both rifleman arms from forgeworld, or if you have imperial guard heavy weapons teams, you can kitbash them from the spare plastic autocannons.
See here: http://www.40korigins.com/40KOrigins/post/2009/08/23/Rifleman-Dreadnought.aspx
-
You could just use spacemarine models as power armoured henchmen with bolters :)
Yes, but 15 points each! Not worth it!
Anyway, I don't like normal space marines, unless they have the beak helmets. The standard grinning teeth helmets upset me.
Purifiers look amazing to me, as a person who doesn't really understand 40K yet.
A forgeworld dreadnought might come to the same price as a new GW one... but I wouldn't buy a new GW one, because they are overpriced. I'd buy a cheap one from ebay. But there are no cheap autocannon dreadnoughts on ebay of course!
I suppose a kitbash would be the best way to do it, but it seems like too much hassle. Also autocannon dreadnoughts are clearly cheating anyway! They are too cheap, pointswise.
Thanks for the ideas though!
-
I am all for the beakies as well Rufus! It is just a shame the chaos sprues don't seem to have mark vi armour on them, so I have to make do with the handful I have been able to scrounge up.
To be fair, 90% of the GW range is what I would call beyond my price range. I mostly buy things I like the look of these days, I cant afford a new army [despite the fact I have priced up a nid army 3 times this year just incase it is cheaper than I thought] You know its getting bad when you can look on forge world and the prices are only slightly more than GWs own!
My remaining purchases this year are to be 2 hydra flak tanks which should be coming out in the summer of fliers.
Regular autocannon dreadnoughts are not especially effective, but psybolt ones are quite a different matter! Who wouldn't want four twlinlinked missile launchers? :-)
-
I went to a big apoc game this saturday. 12 players with 2500pts each. Pictures will come soon!
-
I might not need a vindicare if I could get an autocannon dreadnought! But GW make four plastic space marine dreadnoughts without a single autocannon between them. And forgeworld arms are absurdly expensive.
I made some out of Missile Launcher arms and spare Autocannons.
-
What should I do to convert my tallarn sergeants to not have plasma pistols? will chopping of their hands and putting laspistols be easy?
Shall I just leave them with plasma pistols? They are going to outflank with al rahem, and form a blob of 2 squads plus a commisar.
This squad is also going to have flamers. What models should I use to convert as flamers- normal Lasguns, chop the end off, add a flamer end and flamer back pack? maybe do that but with melta models instead of las gun?
Veterans!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000520.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000521.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000518.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000519.jpg)
-
I like the veterens Finlay :)
Regarding plasma pistols, I guess it depends just how much wysiwyg you play in your area. My group isn't too bothered if I claim it is an ornate laspistol when a model has a plasma pistol. That said, guard do get them cheaper than marines. I sometimes give my bs4 guard vet sergents plasma pistols for example.
Don't you have a massive pile of flamers from your guard sprues? If you bought cadians you should have two per box.
-
But I don't want cadians with flamers in my tallarn squad!
Another scary thing- a failed LD test becomes 20 points of commisar execution if they have plasma and power swords.
-
Surely you can convert your spare cadian flamers onto a tallarn? Shouldn't be too difficult with a small amount of greenstuff and some skill at cutting away a lasgun.
I always knew there was a reason I don't use commisars! I take a CCS or occasionally a primaris psyker as my HQs. LD 9 on the psyker is good for what I need [usually adding to conscripts to boost their LD] plus he can do some serious harm with his lightning arc.
I am tempted to take a commisar lord though, and sit him in the middle of a heavy weapon squad area, so many squads can use his high ld for taking orders. I don't know that just fielding more big guns might be more effective a use of points though. This tends to be a general issue I have with guard. So many times basic infantry are just more effective than expensive upgrades, characters and tanks.
-
Plasma pistols are well expensive points-wise. I can't imagine they are worth it. I don't think I like plasma guns either.
Melta melta melta! Microwave those tanks!
will chopping of their hands and putting laspistols be easy?
Yes, if you have the laspistols!
What models should I use to convert as flamers- normal Lasguns, chop the end off, add a flamer end and flamer back pack?
Yes, do that. Easy!
Those veterans look good. Where are the funny heads from?
Nice backpacks too.
And I like the dinosaur mug in the background.
I made some out of Missile Launcher arms and spare Autocannons.
I have neither! But there's no way I could find the points for a dreadnought anyway, so never mind!
Regular autocannon dreadnoughts are not especially effective, but psybolt ones are quite a different matter! Who wouldn't want four twlinlinked missile launchers?
And they can ignore shaken and stunned results with their fortitude psychic power!
-
Plasma and melta are both equally useful and important IMO. When you play as an army like guard, plasma is desperately needed to shoot up marines and terminators. You actually don't need as many melta weapons with guard as other armies due to the high availability of high strength weapons on tanks, artillery and vendettas.
When you play as GKs you can kill marines etc much easier due to all your knights having power weapons. Different priorities for weapons for different armies.
I had to go back and look at the dinosaur mug :-D
Fortitude is a really decent psychic power, its like daemonic possession without the downsides.
-
if you kill one space marine, it's made its points back. The squad is meant to be a close assault squad, and I reckon 2 plasma shots and 2 flamer bursts, as well as 20 guardsmen and a commisar, and 3 power weapons, should be able to do some damage.
The funny heads are from Pig Iron. The backpacks were from the giant bag of bits which Shadowlord sent to me.
I'm scared to chop up the Tallarns, they are quite expensive! but I do have lots of las pistol hands.
dinosaur mug from the natural history museum. It's my go to mug.
-
Do not chop up the tallran if you absolutely do not have to. By the way, your vets look badass. :::cheers:::
-
I probably should have bought Valhallans, as they have flamer and melta models, and had a Russian "counts as " Al Rahem.
I need Tallarn flamers though, so have to chop them up.
-
Yes, let the Tallarns keep their overheating point sink guns!
I reckon 2 plasma shots and 2 flamer bursts, as well as 20 guardsmen and a commisar, and 3 power weapons, should be able to do some damage.
Where are my psychotroke grenades! Make them fight amongst themselves.
If they are an assault unit, don't you want assault weapons so you can assault after shooting? Like meltaguns instead of plasma...
When you play as GKs you can kill marines etc much easier due to all your knights having power weapons.
Good point!
Also psyker squads with AP1 large templates, assuming they pass their psychic test and then manage to hit (do you really use the scatter dice for blast weapons in 40K? Really?).
-
pistols you can shoot and then assault, and the squads will have flamers.
toasty.
-
Here's some pictures of the apoc game that I mentioned.
It was awesome.
http://aphael.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/apocalypse-game-24071001/ (http://aphael.wordpress.com/2011/07/23/apocalypse-game-24071001/)
-
Nice pictures!
The table looks a bit crowded though. No room for all those tanks to move about!
Maybe the orbital barrage from the grey knights army book would actually hit something in that game.
-
Well they were the defenders and thus had less room to deploy on, but it worked out for them. The Baneblade doesnt have to move anyway...
There was lots of orbital bombardments and bombs flying all of the place. The coolest was my buddy, using a formation that gave him the "On my coordinates" asset which brings down an orbital bombardment on a guy with a vox :P
-
using a formation that gave him the "On my coordinates" asset which brings down an orbital bombardment on a guy with a vox :P
Harsh. Poor radio guy.
On another matter: why can't inquisitors get any kind of invulnerable save? They have access to all this amazing wargear, but they can't have so much as a refractor field (every guard commander has one of those!). They can even buy storm shields for their henchmen, but not for themselves!
Fluff/rules failure.
-
Their faith is all the armour they need...the space marine armour is just for the looks.
-
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000520.jpg)
"Gentlemen, intel says there's a smiling blue globe behind us, lets investigate."
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000521.jpg)
"Yep, there sure is."
"Its not moving."
"Yep, seems harmless, lets get back to searching for the enemy."
"Its getting hot, so think I'll take off some of this silly armor first."
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000518.jpg)
"Wait, where'd Fred go?"
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000519.jpg)
"He's just gone!"
"You don't suppose that smiling blue globe had something to do with?"
-
You should make webcomics ....with finlays pictures.
-
That reminds me of the story of the lictor stalking guardsmen in the 2nd ed 'nid codex GamesPoet.
Im suprised Finlay has time to do all this painting on Paternity leave!
-
why? when he's feeding or asleep I can't do anything for him. He's been pretty good so far. *touch wood*
Anyway, I'm back at work now, so my painting output will drop dramatically :(
-
I dont know Finlay, I was just guessing based on my friends experience with his child. I have no personal experience! :-D
This same friends painting output improves when hes at work. He takes his models to work with him, and paints them. He doesn't even work at a GW, hes a traffic warden!
My painting has hit a halt. I was away last weekend at a concert, and this weekend, I am working. Yay for me! Hopefully after this weekend has been and gone, I will get my motivation back, but I go through periods of hating painting, and then liking it again. Ill just wait till I am interested again :-)
-
Nah, when the babies first come home they tend to sleep alot. But it gets worse as they get older. :icon_wink:
-
You should make webcomics ....with finlays pictures.
Think it'll make enough money for postage to Germany? :icon_lol:
-
I dont know Finlay, I was just guessing based on my friends experience with his child. I have no personal experience! :-D
This same friends painting output improves when hes at work. He takes his models to work with him, and paints them. He doesn't even work at a GW, hes a traffic warden!
My painting has hit a halt. I was away last weekend at a concert, and this weekend, I am working. Yay for me! Hopefully after this weekend has been and gone, I will get my motivation back, but I go through periods of hating painting, and then liking it again. Ill just wait till I am interested again :-)
We've been lucky so far.
My painting definitely comes in big spurts. I did nothing from november then before the euro bash I painted a 2500 point Orc army.
Then after I got back form the bash I've done nothing until I started the IG again.
-
I am the same Finlay. I either churn out huge amounts of models in a short period of time, or I do nothing. I very rarely do odd bits.
For example, in a single week, I painted up 30 guardsmen, by doing 10 men over two days, and repeating it three times. This took me more or less a whole weeks leave from work, time well spent IMO :-D
I also tend to paint more if I am using the model. The more I use a certain model, the more I am likely to paint it, as I hate having unpainted models on the table. Thing is, like with my guard, I have a fully painted army in most games I play, but I still have a large amount of models waiting to be done, but as I am not using them, they havn't been touched. Just need to get the motivation back I guess.
In 8 or so years you will have grown your own gaming group! Lucky you! :)
-
*touch wood*
Filthy boy!
-
The most common Tallarn sergeant has the Plasma Pistol out front in a shooting position, and one of the Valhallan sergeants has a smaller flamer in a similar position - it's a simple cut off at the wrist swap.
Some of the Tallarns also have a failry easy lasgun position to cut the end off and add a flamer / burner bit - the catachan plastic flamers are probably easier to 'add'.
-
What's the best armament for chimeras?
My two have multi-lasers and hull heavy bolters. I think heavy bolters are a bit useless (S5, weak), so I might install hull heavy flamers instead. Good idea?
Also, are any of the vehicle upgrades worth bothering with? Or are they all a waste of points?
-
from reading the IG message board, multi laser and heavy flamer is the way to go, and the upgrades are a waste of points.
I have snapped out my heavy bolters, was going to stick a flamer in there too.
-
You should make webcomics ....with finlays pictures.
Think it'll make enough money for postage to Germany? :icon_lol:
http://ircalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?country=10137&m=6&p=3&o=0 (http://ircalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?country=10137&m=6&p=3&o=0)
Well depends...I hope that the package weights 3 pounds but I guess 3 pounds of miniatures would be quiet a lot
30 $ still seems very much to me.
-
from reading the IG message board, multi laser and heavy flamer is the way to go, and the upgrades are a waste of points.
Good! I'll do that then. I have a couple of spare flamer bits I can use.
I think I'll get rid of the tank commanders sticking out of the turrets too, because they look silly. Also one chimera has a buldozer blade on the front, but I'm going to leave it on there and not buy the upgrade.
-
Bull dozer blades are cool and they can be fluffy.
Problem is when the tank gets taken out before you get to use the blade.
-
I think I'll get rid of the tank commanders sticking out of the turrets too, because they look silly.
Heretical talk, this!
(http://500motivators.com/plog-content/thumbs/motivate/me/large/474-drive-me-closer-i-want-to-hit-them-with-my-sword.jpg)
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrCY7dgaqs
-
But they don't have swords.
-
Just glue a sword arm to them, stoopid! :icon_razz:
-
I gave my baneblade commander a sword. Just for the cool factor... and it worked :p
-
See, that is what I have been trying to say for all these years to you numbercrunching competitor! Coolness beats all statistics hands down because the Emperor is with you! :engel:
-
The best part was the guy in the video had a Powefist. Not a sword.
-
Hull heavy flamers are better on chimeras that advance, heavy bolters better on those which act as pillboxes. I have some of each for that reason.
-
I've changed one chimera's bolter for a flamer, but I'm going to leave the other one as it is I think.
Should I convert three of my ten Cadian meltagunners into plasmagunners?
-
That depends how many you have of each type already rufus.
If you have to choose between melta and plasma, pick melta. If you have a squad with melta, then doing some up as plasma would be a good idea as well.
-
Well, I have enough melta guns to arm three squads with three each, even if I turn three into plasma guns. I'm just not sure if I actually want to have plasma guns.
I need to play a game to find out!
-
Of all the special weapons, I love plasma the best. There is nothing as satisfying as a plasma rapid fire unit wiping out a unit of terminators.
You could just proxy them for a game rufus, then you will know if you like them or not.
-
This has quite a few indepth looks at the different 40k codex books. I really enjoy the site, and they talk a lot of sense.
I have to disagree with this. Unless you like WAAC gaming, that's not a good place to go to. Some of the points that they make are reasonable enough, but the very negative and disparaging attitude towards anyone who doesn't follow their way of the playing the game really lets that site down a lot in my opinion.
-
Depends what you want from a site Irisado. I was only talking about the codex reviews, as they go in a lot of depth on each of the different entries. Sure they are looking at it from a competitive angle, but it is nothing like as bad as some of the other 40k sites out there.
I quite like to have the units broken down into the maths, as it allows me to make an educated decision. Just because something is rated as poor by a website doesn't always make it so, but I appreciate having hard maths to look at.
-
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000528.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000529.jpg)
Oh noes, my arm is broken!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000530.jpg)
Never mind sir, we just amputated it. Here, have some medals and a plasma pistol.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000531.jpg)
Whole squad (minus heavy weapon)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000533.jpg)
-
Nice.
-
Very nice!
-
Looks good!
-
But those deserve to be proberly illuminated when you take pics! Try to get some diffuse (indirect) light on them. You can achieve this with a lamp shining at some kind of white surface you use to deflect the light on the figures. Sunlight can work as well.
-
Loving the paintjob and conversions Finlay.
Looking at your photos, I never notice until now just how oversized the plasma pistol is! Its absolutely gigantic!
-
But those deserve to be proberly illuminated when you take pics! Try to get some diffuse (indirect) light on them. You can achieve this with a lamp shining at some kind of white surface you use to deflect the light on the figures. Sunlight can work as well.
1. It is SOO overcast here at the moment. And I always find using lamps sort of washes them out too much?
2. My son was not being co-operative! (and mum was trying to nap) and I was impatient to put some pics up.
I'm painting Chimera's now. Scary! I feel like I should just get grey and green spray, but too cheap to buy them.
-
If you point the lamp directly at them it washes them out, but if you point the light not at them, but a white surface, you will get soft diffuse light on them (provided you position the surface right of course).
-
Where'd the slinged arm and the mechanical arm come from?
-
IG Cadian command squad.
-
Depends what you want from a site Irisado. I was only talking about the codex reviews, as they go in a lot of depth on each of the different entries. Sure they are looking at it from a competitive angle, but it is nothing like as bad as some of the other 40k sites out there.
I don't even agree with that I'm afraid, as it very much depends on who has written the codex review. I'm not tarnishing everyone there with the same brush, but there are some article writers/reviewers there who write very poorly in my opinion, and have a very narrow minded approach to the game and individual codices.
I quite like to have the units broken down into the maths, as it allows me to make an educated decision. Just because something is rated as poor by a website doesn't always make it so, but I appreciate having hard maths to look at.
Good quality posters on 40K forums can do that for you, as well as relate it to actual experience :icon_smile:.
Edited for grammar.
-
a girl posted some (badly) painted tanks on the Ig forum, and got more replies to my reasonably painted guys and my army list thread in one day than I have in 2 weeks.
Maybe I should make a user called "finlina" or something?
IG Cadian command squad.
Not quite
Although there is an arm like that on the Cadian command sprue, It's actually metal. I got it in SL's bitz bag he sent to me.
-
Hey, you're married, have a child, and you're a guy. What guy's going to want to chase you? Probably none of those posters are ladies either, even if you were free for chasin' by them. :icon_wink:
-
I finally got to read the first part of the Sisters of Battle Codex in WD. I still cannot grasp what makes commentators on other sites go whining and complaining or what makes the Sisters so nerfed now. I have laid my grubby hands on an old model of arch-confessor Kyrinov that will serve as confessor or preacher as I see fit.
-
Depends what you want from a site Irisado. I was only talking about the codex reviews, as they go in a lot of depth on each of the different entries. Sure they are looking at it from a competitive angle, but it is nothing like as bad as some of the other 40k sites out there.
I don't even agree with that I'm afraid, as it very much depends on who has written the codex review. I'm not tarnishing everyone there with the same brush, but there are some article writers/reviewers there who write very poorly in my opinion, and have a very narrow minded approach to the game and individual codices.
I quite like to have the units broken down into the maths, as it allows me to make an educated decision. Just because something is rated as poor by a website doesn't always make it so, but I appreciate having hard maths to look at.
Good quality posters on 40K forums can do that for you, as well as relate it to actual experience :icon_smile:.
Edited for grammar.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree :-D
-
I finally got to read the first part of the Sisters of Battle Codex in WD. I still cannot grasp what makes commentators on other sites go whining and complaining or what makes the Sisters so nerfed now. I have laid my grubby hands on an old model of arch-confessor Kyrinov that will serve as confessor or preacher as I see fit.
I havent read other forums and their whining, but the sisters got a bit nerfed on their faith abilities in the way that they have different ones for each unit and that they lost the one that changes the armour into invul save together with the one that ignores armour?
Anyway, that is nerfed, but they probably have gotten cheaper.
Im just hoping for some kind of plastics, but it seems like the coming months will be fantasy oriented.
-
Yeah they lost the invuln save and armour ignoring ones. However we don't have the wargear lists yet, so there could be something in there, and obviously the prices. I wasn't a big fan of fighting against the Sisters in their current incarnation anyway. Since faith was unstoppable, outplaying them meant nothing if they could just invuln out of a bad situation with impunity, it felt like it was up to them whether or not you won, rather than your own playing, if you get me.
Some of the new powers look good, Dominions look good, and Repentia just got a second base attack - nasty! Their faith allows them to strike even if they die too. They're going to make a mess...
-
I agree with Sig.
In their previous incarnation, if they could keep casting their invulnerable save faith when it was needed, you were really at the mercy of their dice rolls regardless of how well you played.
At least with the new system they have specific faith to each unit. Obviously until I play them, I wont know for sure if this new system is better, but so far it is looking reasonable.
I am expecting them to be a bit cheaper on points than the last edition too.
-
Well, isnt that the same with assault termies with their storm shields? You rely on bad rolls?
This is just the sisters' assault termies.
But well, I havent played them, so i dont know much.
-
Nice veterans, Finlay.
you were really at the mercy of their dice rolls regardless of how well you played.
Surely that's true in any dice game!
-
There are a few differences with terminators with storm shields and the old sisters of battle. For a start, all their sisters of battle units could theoretically pass the test needed to get a 3++. With terminators, you already know what they have, and they cost a massive amount of points, and have no ranged weapons.
While it is true in any game you are at the mercy of the dice Rufus, sisters had the chance with a dice roll of giving any unit all kinds of wondrous abilities, making a mockery of your tactical planning, as suddenly their heavy weapons troopers could gain power weapons or invulnerable saves, something you can't really plan for.
-
Oh, I see. Fair point then!
I wonder if I should use that plasma syphon gadget to protect my grey knights from nasty plasmagunners.
-
I would say the plasma syphon is one of the best items you can lay your hands on in ANY codex. Plasma being the best way to remove terminators [so it depends if you use a lot of GK terminators really] Having just had a quick look at the codex, I cant see who can actually take this item? Its not on any GK HQ choices.
That said, people will just start use melta weapons instead if you play the same gaming group all the time, which are also good for killing tanks/dreadnaughts/knights so its swings and roundabouts really.
-
The xenos inquisitor is the only one who can take them. I havent tried it yet. It seems too situational.
On the faith topic. You know this when playing the sisters that they will probably do their mean tricks and get the invulsave in situations where they cant use their armour save. So you know that they will probably always have a 3+ save.
Which is nice, no doubt, but they are still T3 Ws3... So it isnt impossible to kill them..
-
The Xenos inquisitor is the only one who can have it (because it was made by aliens). And since he can't get terminator armor himself (or a ward save, damnit!), it's a bit awkward to use. But he's the best inquisitor anyway, since he can also use rad grenades.
It's good for upsetting Tau though, since even their basic guns count as plasma weapons according to the FAQ!
I don't have any terminators yet (well, I have one). I am planning to get one unit only.
-
Tau are IMO a fairly weak army in 5th edition anyway, with expensive transports, and a general lack of combat troops, and a whole 1 power weapon in the whole codex.
What I am saying is that you shouldn't need a plasma syphon vs them :)
It seems to me from a fluff perspective, that the GK codex is all wrong. We should be seeing lots more terminators in lists that we do. Mostly people use henchmen [and rightly so, they are an amazing unit choice].
-
Hmm the trend here in Århus, Denmark isn't really henchmen. People play with terminators, paladins, purifiers and normal strike squads :P
-
I like the terminator models, I just haven't had any success buying any from ebay! So I have purifiers instead (was going to use strike squads, but they are much weaker than purifiers and hardly any cheaper).
But I'm not really sure what the point of terminators is.
Poor old Tau. They have some nice looking models too. Their transports look like spaceships, which I like.
It seems to me from a fluff perspective, that the GK codex is all wrong.
Probably!
I was disappointed that you couldn't still have imperial guard allies.
And it makes no sense at all that inquisitors can't get ward saves. The fluff makes a big deal about how they can get anything they want, including all kinds of rare and expensive equipment... just not a cheapo refractor field. Or one of the storm shields that their henchmen can have!
I know I've said that before. But it annoys me!
-
Poor old Tau. They have some nice looking models too. Their transports look like spaceships, which I like.
I held off on doing my first 40K army as Tau, did Orks instead. Picked up a handfull of markerlight guys from someone who was selling off his Tau, and a forum member here sent me some Tau stuff he even cast (I'm spacing his username currently). Its probably just a matter of time before I start an army of these. Maybe when they redo their codex. I agree, the space ships are cool.
It seems to me from a fluff perspective, that the GK codex is all wrong.
Probably!
I was disappointed that you couldn't still have imperial guard allies.
And it makes no sense at all that inquisitors can't get ward saves. The fluff makes a big deal about how they can get anything they want, including all kinds of rare and expensive equipment... just not a cheapo refractor field. Or one of the storm shields that their henchmen can have!
I know I've said that before. But it annoys me!
Yep, but if they screwed up in writing the fluff they ought to be ... wait, maybe someone should have just rewrote it before it was released.
Imagine that!
-
Some of the henchmen are imperial guard though aren't they? The ones who have a million options.
-
Not neccessarily - they're warrior henchmen. Those can be anything from IG inducted by the Inquisitor to do his heavy lifting to a collection of hive-scum hired by the Inquisitor, or a bunch of noblemen out for glory, or anything really.
-
Now, since the Grey Knights turned from focusing on Chaos and mostly daemons to become the regular cleaner boys of the whole Inquisition, it seems the Deathwatch is buried. The Ordo Xenos got shinnier Chamber Militants to play with.
-
Sternguard make for good deathwatch standins. If I do a second squad for my novamarines, I'll do deathwatch for sure, especially since it ties in with the fluff (novamarines are more xenophobic than even normal marines).
-
badly painted chimera!
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000547.jpg)
I hate painting tanks.
It looks alright IRL though.
-
Maybe it needs a good coat of black wash?
-
It's had one. Thats what the smudginess on the turret is.
-
badly painted chimera!
It looks good. I like it.
-
The camo pattern does give the impression of camo, and messes with my eyes, and in a good camo way, better than some others I've seen.
-
Maybe you should try and put thin black lines where the green and grey meet?
And try to highlight the tank? :)
-
I'm not going to blackline it. Guess I will highlight it.
-
Three wrongs - gren color looks pastel, the color combo is wrong, and there is a distinct lack of color separation.
-
Dark angels green and codex grey- what's wrong with that?
and the combo works on my infantry?
I hate painting tanks! Maybe I should just make them grey and highlighted.
-
Dark angels green and codex grey- what's wrong with that?
Pastel with muted grey is what is "wrong".
Works ok with smaller models but it looks odd here.
I agree, tank painting sucks.
-
So I need darker grey or green?
Or lighter grey or green?
-
You make the mistake of thinking green is either light or dark.
You also have strong and weak pigments.
For instance Catachan Green is dark but never in the same powerful green as say Dark Angels Green.
But if you want easier painted tanks - just make them one colored like the Vostroyan tanks.
-
I've edged the green with Knarloc green, and higlighted the edges too, think it looks better.
Also, it looked better IRL than the picture, so I am reasonably pleased with it as it stands.
-
Also, it looked better IRL than the picture, so I am reasonably pleased with it as it stands.
This will sound boring...
That is all that matters!
-
Anyone got any suggestions for a source for some 40mm round bases.
I want some for my mounted Wild West models - I've raided our 40K boxes but haven't got enough.
Apart from Ogryns, what use is there for 40mm bases in 40k ...............
We have Imperial Guard, Chaos Space Marines, Eldar, and a few Space Marines
I need around 30 - 40 I think.
I've googled and found lots of decorated or resin ones, I just want plain plastic.
-
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40mm-Round-bases-Unslotted-GW-Warhammer-type-/380324300805?pt=UK_Toys_Wargames_RL&hash=item588d184805#ht_944wt_905
-
Thanks - that's not bad incl the postage = 19p each
I saw some mdf ones of his for 27.5p each.
However I have now found 50 for Ģ5.74 incl the postage = 11.5p each
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/TheTrollTrader?_trksid=p4340.l2563
and actually made him an offer of Ģ3.25 rather than the Ģ3.99, + postage
We'll see ................
-
I find ebay really good for bases.
People must cast them themselves.
Also, it looked better IRL than the picture, so I am reasonably pleased with it as it stands.
This will sound boring...
That is all that matters!
:::cheers:::
decent table top standard, and looking good all on the table together = makes a huge difference.
Even badly painted, but fully painted, army will look decent on the table top from a short distance!
Just don't pick up any of my models for a closer look :icon_lol:
-
Are we going to see a picture of the updated version?
-
Are we going to see a picture of the updated version?
Word :P
-
moar tallarns.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000571.jpg)
extra chimera,
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000574.jpg)
re-touched chimera.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg88/nottsfootballfan/P1000575.jpg)
I think I have abandoned my plans for Al Rahem, going to use 2 sentinels, a hellhound, and possibly some rough riders as my more mobile element.
-
The greens look way better on the chimera now. Looks good!
-
I really like the Tallarns, they remind me of Tuareg...if you have the patience perhaps try a unit with black and blue only.
http://www.modelkits.com.ua/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/3230319be19f8e0ae31a62b553c9a95e.jpg (http://www.modelkits.com.ua/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/3230319be19f8e0ae31a62b553c9a95e.jpg)
-
CCS, 2 flamers 60 pts
Platoon Command squad, Autocannon, 2 GLs, 50 pts
Infantry squad, Autocannon, GL x 3 195 pts
Infantry squad with flamer x 2, 110 pts
Veteran squad, chimera with ML and HF, 3x plasma, plasma pistol. 180
Veteran squad, chimera with ML and HF, 3x melta, demolitions. 185
Scout sentinel, autocannon 40
Scout sentinel, autocannon 40
Hellhound, multi melta, smokers, 150 pts
LRBT, lascannon, HB sponsons. 185 pts
LRD, lascannon. 180 pts
Basilisk, 125 pts
-
That's a 1500 point list? 80 guys and vehicle-tastic too. I'm scared.
I like the chimeras and Tallarns. In fact I think the chimeras look better than mine.
-
yep! remember my entire list will get eaten in combat.
I can't decide on my list at all though.
-
Neither can I. I might go for this:
inquisitor coteaz 100
vindicare assassin 145
10 purifier squad master-crafted hammer 280
5 halberds
2 incinerators
psybolts
rhino hunter missile 50
10 strike squad master-crafted hammer 270
3 halberds
2 psycannons
psybolts
rhino 40
11 henchmen squad 5 deathcult assassin 160
5 crusaders
1 psyker
chimera multilaser, heavy flamer 55
12 henchmen squad 3 meltaguns/laspistols 145
6 hotshot lasguns/laspistols
1 laspistol/chainsword
1 psyker
1 jokaero
chimera multilaser, heavy bolter 55
12 henchmen squad 3 meltaguns/laspistols 145
6 hotshot lasguns/laspistols
1 laspistol/chainsword
1 psyker
1 jokaero
chimera multilaser, heavy bolter 55
total = 1500
But it might be really rubbish. At least everyone gets to ride in a car, other than the assassin.
-
You need more long range shooting. At least here, every marine army has at least 5 missile launchers (15 if you encounter space wolves). Your environment might not be anything like that of course :)
The cars look good Finlay! I like the lighter green colour, it blends nicely!
-
Their "environment" appears to be Rufus and Finlay, two peas in a pod so to speak. I could be wrong.
-
You need more long range shooting
Finlay does or I do?
Because there is no long range shooting in the grey knights book, except for dreadnoughts!
-
You need a 2x TL auto dread! It's ridiculous in the normal codex, which is how I use it, and in the Grey Knight codex it's str 8! And does other stuff! Cheat-tastic, to borrow your own phrase.
-
How did you make your autocannon dreadnought?
I'm thinking the best solution is that quad autocannon that comes in the defense line set with the walls:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440312a&prodId=prod20006a
But I'm not sure it will actually look OK.
-
Yeah, that's how I did it. I was lazy, I just hacked off the tube that connects the two halves of the gun together and stuck one on each side of the dread. It looks OK, but you won't win any awards for it. I don't have a picture sorry, but it does look passable, at least to me, I'm fine with it.
-
Great, I will probably try that then!
I need to find 135 points though. I expect the orangutans will have to go.
-
4 strength 8 shots, hitting on 3s, rerolling.
Bye Bye chimeras.
-
Should just give it a big banner saying "FETH DARK ELDAR".
-
Psychic robot with psychic guns.
Damn, now I'm 15 points over!
-
The dreads are also awesome at defending you from psychic attack. The normal GK aegis is shit, because everyone has ld10 on their psykers. But the reinforced aegis from the dreads are really really good.
It will protect you from anything.
I went up against tyranids where 2 zoan thropes became useless with their ld6 for psychic test :D
So position the dreadnoughts wisely.
-
I suppose you'd want a multimelta (or psycannon) dreadnought to defend against psychic attack, because the autocannon one is going to be at the back somewhere.
But I don't think I want a dreadnought at the moment, because my army will look silly if it consists of five transports full of infantry and then one random robot running along next to them.
I'm annoyed that rhinos only hold ten guys. That means you can never put a character with a full space marine squad, and using less than ten marines in a squad is clearly wrong.
So Cortez has to join a henchmen squad... but he needs to be in a squad that can fight and shoot. I wish I didn't have to use him at all!
Orangutan question: you know that familiar that looks like a small hairy animal?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440120a&prodId=prod860002a
Possible Jokaero? Or would that be silly?
-
Isnīt using the Jokaero silly automatically?
-
Most things in 40K are silly!
For example, look at any space marine special character model and try not to laugh.
-
I think Straken looks ok...as does Sly Marbo...but with him you have to laugh about the name.
Eldar are all funny.
hmm space marines too even though Ulrik is okish.
The Tau guys look like all the other Tau guys.
-
The most ridiculous models in 40K, largely due to the colour scheme:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440317a&prodId=prod1060070&rootCatGameStyle=
Fat Superman X 4.
Runner-up: any model in terminator armour but not wearing a helmet. Your head is so small!
-
Yes, I see your problem with Corteaz, Rufus. He is excellent with death cult assasins because he has hammerhand, but then you wouldnt be able to use his special rule.
I would choose each game depending on your opponent and wether he puts anything in reserve - if not then put him in the DCA unit.
-
I really like that Marine lord with the power fist holding the helmet. That is probably my favourite space marine model they do! Generally I think all marines should wear helmets though, its retarded wearing nigh impenetrable armour then not wearing your helmet.
In Deathwatch you get extra renown for doing a mission without your helmet, and a number of small in game benefits, but if you get shot in the head, you have no armour...so yeah.
-
Yes, I see your problem with Corteaz, Rufus. He is excellent with death cult assasins because he has hammerhand, but then you wouldnt be able to use his special rule.
I would choose each game depending on your opponent and wether he puts anything in reserve - if not then put him in the DCA unit.
Good plan. It's annoying though: I wish I could take a generic inquisitor but still have henchmen as troops.
I'd put Cortez with the strike squad if they could all fit in a rhino!
I really like that Marine lord with the power fist holding the helmet.
He looks like fat Superman just caught a baseball.
But there's no accounting for taste! I like the techno-orangutan.
-
I wonder if it is possible to read any of Rufus posts and not laugh at it.
-
Sure, why not. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
-
Yeah but surely when your a space marine lord, you take it easily, eat a load of pies and relax, and let your battle brothers do the fighting, so putting on a bit of weight is kind of expected!
-
He looks like fat Superman just caught a baseball.
But there's no accounting for taste! I like the techno-orangutan.
More like Lex Luthor ate Superman and stole his clothes. Space Marines seem to mostly have alopecia. Must be in the genes.
-
Jokaero!
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K/orang.jpg)
Ha ha!
-
Is that a Jokaero? Looks like ALF to me. :closed-eyes:
-
Oh, you mean there not one and the same? :icon_wink:
-
I think it looks close enough.
At 35 points each they are very likely to get cut from my list anyway.
-
I personally love the chapter masters. I made a Blood Ravens Captain with bolter and power fist (old school it), a Black Templar Castellan (one holding the cloak, but gave him the sword instead of the hammer), a Black Templar Marshal (holding the knight helmet in a power fist along with a shaved down lightning claw with skull-knuckles from the old veteran models with a storm bolter on the back of it) out of 'em, and they look good. Just gotta' toy with 'em to get the most out of them, for sure.
-
I love the chapter masters too. I use the one with the power axe and storm shield as my Black Templar chapter master.
-
Question!
I was thinking of using modified Tau gun drones as Ordo Xenos servitors with plasma cannons. Would that be daft?
Squad-wise, I thought I'd have two jokaero, 3 plasma cannon servitors, a Xenos inquisitor and some space-filling warriors in a chimera. Long range shooting!
The inquisitor wouldn't be doing much other than keeping away mindlock, but I suppose he could use psychic communion to get the reserves in on time.
-
Give him a conversion beamer?
The drones could be cool! Just give them some big guns ! :D
-
Eldar are all funny.
Really? That's a new one on me. They are always deadly serious on the field of battle. I suspect, somehow, you're talking about models though :icon_wink:. I don't agree with if this is the case though. The current Eldar sculpts are pretty good, and the original Rogue Trader sculpts are superb. The third edition models were, however, awful in my opinion.
-
I thought about the beamer, but its optimum range clashes with the plasma cannons. It would only be S8 AP4 or whatever it is, instead of S10 AP1 as it is at 48". Also you only get five firepoints on a chimera, so I'd have to drop a Jokaero. Not sure.
Glad you like the drone idea!
-
Ah, I didnt think about that! Hmm then maybe it should be left at home and save the pts. But I see psykers better at long range fire support than servitors. Although their bad side is their low leadership.
I like conversions of all sorts! As long as they make sense. Since you have a monkey with you, it totally does :P
-
Plasma cannon servitors are so cheap though. 20 points each!
I think psykers are a bit of a gamble. One bad roll and they all die. Plus the drones will look better. And also the servitors benefit from the Jokaero's power: they might get +12" range, or rending.
-
Yes very cheap!
Im looking forward to hearing how they fare! The cannons do sound good on the paper!
-
I finally got my ass of the ground and finished my ork campaign DoW II Retribution on my sons computer. Got me back to my ork force. It will be a mix of mostly Bad Moons and Blood axes. I am painting a 20 strong shoota Ard boys mob as Bad Moons now and my battlewagons, a Sherman and a JSU152 1/35 scale model, will get the same treatment.
-
Stoopid luvely green Orks...
(http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee48/SL-PN/greennmean.jpg)
Still have some stuff to fix, the squig and some minor detail, but I did this fast with a limited palette and tons of washes (and water).
-
Orks take to washes in a way that is not at all suggested by their hygiene.
-
I approve of your warboss, Shadowlord! Including all them yellow thropies. :icon_mrgreen:
-
Eldar are all funny.
Really? That's a new one on me. They are always deadly serious on the field of battle. I suspect, somehow, you're talking about models though :icon_wink:. I don't agree with if this is the case though. The current Eldar sculpts are pretty good, and the original Rogue Trader sculpts are superb. The third edition models were, however, awful in my opinion.
Yes if you like the coneheads you like the Eldar.
I even played the army but I have the same issue with them as with the High Elves, stupid ugly heads.
ahh I canīt find the comic with the eldar scan where the space of the helmet is filled up with blonde hair.
-
I always insist those are hood dryers - the Elves go to battle to the sound of their gentle whirring!
-
Well with all that warfare training there is no time left to take proper care of your hair.
:engel:
I only like the special helmets of the scorpions and banshees as they have at least a bit the greek look. Assyrians I am not decided.
-
I only like the special helmets of the scorpions and banshees as they have at least a bit the greek look. Assyrians I am not decided.
Macedonians.
(http://www.bible-history.com/archaeology/greece/2-greek-helmet-bb.jpg)
-
I quite like eldar tbh.
People keep buying hellhounds on ebay for more than I want to pay. boooo!
-
I like eldar too :)
I have squads of first edition dire avengers, striking scorpions, howling banshees, dark reapers and fire dragons.
I also have some newer aspects as well, warp spiders, shining spears, 2nd and 3rd releases of dire avengers, the second release banshees and 2nd release reapers!
Im just waiting for a new book, maybe with some new aspect warriors [Slicing Orbs of Zandros anyone?]
Dire Avengers are my favourite looking aspect, with Horse hair plumed helmets. Sexiest helmets ever.
-
Eldar are OK. I don't like their vehicles.
So, I have discovered that I can make a 1500 points imperial guard list... but it has no vehicles other than three chimeras. It does have a lot of meltaguns. I wonder if it would be playable, or if I should get a Lemon Rusk or something.
Also, why doesn't the valkyrie come with the lascannons you need to make a vendetta? Lame.
-
Well Forgeworld needs money too.
Also you can go all infantry with IG if you want to. I would use the chimeras with Veteran squads with melta guns.
You would need some long range fire power too though....if you want to win that is you also can just field hundreds of recruits and yell....Urräääää Urräääääää Urräääääää and see them mowed down.
-
My list doesn't even have that much infantry! I'm not sure where the points went.
Roughly, it is:
command squad with astropath
super-psyker
5 ratlings
2 units of 5 storm troopers with 2 meltas (and parachutes!)
3 units of demo veterans in chimeras with 2 meltas and heavy flamer
platoon with 2 squads, commissars
10 rough riders
More infantry than that would be absurdly annoying to move in a game with no movement trays!
I could probably drop some upgrades and get a tank. Or a vendetta.
-
Well your stormtroopers are the point sink....they are very nice models but are they seriously worth a Space Marine in points...I donīt think so.
Hmmmm I think your army is very small for an IG army. But the Chimera Veterans are pretty mobile and deadly.
-
Also, why doesn't the valkyrie come with the lascannons you need to make a vendetta? Lame.
I have some Lascannon bits that would probably not require too much conversion. They're from Predator Sponsons that never got used. How many do you need?
-
You dont have any long range firesupport, which the guard is awesome at having, so that will be a set back!
-
Yes you would need (a dreagnouth with) autocannons.
-
I converted my vendetta from spare lascannons from the heavy weapon teams. I posted a photo of it a while back on here!
-
Yes you would need (a dreagnouth with) autocannons.
That seems to be the standard now, but IG does it much better.
Lots of heavy weapon teams and orders from their commander.
-
I like rocket launchers...mainly because I have them galore (steel legion packs) but also I think they too grant a good mix of anti tank and anti infantry.
I go fluffy and even hand out grenade launchers to all my infantry squads.
-
what the hell? It doesn't come with lascannons? boooooo
BTW, does anyone have a spare autocannon? I need to glue it onto a sentinel.
rufus, are you going to use IG or GK when we play? I think that army is not really viable tbh. you need more tanks! If you swap the storm troopers, super psyker, and ratlings (or not if u like them) then you can add tanks.
-
BTW, does anyone have a spare autocannon? I need to glue it onto a sentinel.
I do. :engel: I have a lot of spare stuff. PM me your address and I will send it right out.
-
I have some Lascannon bits that would probably not require too much conversion. They're from Predator Sponsons that never got used. How many do you need?
You already sent me those melta and plasma guns! I couldn't possibly ask you to send me anything else.
Thanks for the offer though!
rufus, are you going to use IG or GK when we play?
It will have to be grey knights I think. I agree that my guard stuff doesn't make a decent list.
I'm not very happy about my grey knights list either.
-
I go fluffy and even hand out grenade launchers to all my infantry squads.
What? :icon_biggrin: :engel:
-
BTW, does anyone have a spare autocannon? I need to glue it onto a sentinel.
I do. :engel: I have a lot of spare stuff. PM me your address and I will send it right out.
Do you have spare stuff to build HWT guns?
Maybe I should buy some off you!
-
BTW, does anyone have a spare autocannon? I need to glue it onto a sentinel.
I do. :engel: I have a lot of spare stuff. PM me your address and I will send it right out.
Do you have spare stuff to build HWT guns?
Maybe I should buy some off you!
I'm sure I could build some for you. PM me with what you need and I will see what I can come up with.
You already sent me those melta and plasma guns! I couldn't possibly ask you to send me anything else.
Thanks for the offer though!
You didn't ask, I offered :wink: I'm probably not going to ever use them all, and I'd rather they go to one of my W-E brothers than one of the guys I have to play against at my LGS.
-
I wonder if there is a Saint Cannon already in the catholic pantheon. :engel:
-
I wonder if there is a Saint Cannon already in the catholic pantheon. :engel:
Where do you think they got the term Canonize?
-
I wonder if there is a Saint Cannon already in the catholic pantheon. :engel:
Where do you think they got the term Canonize?
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/S7GwL1vqzjwshlle83D4vubbo1_400.jpg)
I'll have a look what I need. I definitely need one of the cable and power packs which connect to lascannon, and also an autocannon.
-
Canīt we include the instant rimshot somewhere in the smiley array?
-
You didn't ask, I offered :wink: I'm probably not going to ever use them all, and I'd rather they go to one of my W-E brothers than one of the guys I have to play against at my LGS.
Well, that would be really fantastic! Thank you very much!
-
You didn't ask, I offered :wink: I'm probably not going to ever use them all, and I'd rather they go to one of my W-E brothers than one of the guys I have to play against at my LGS.
Well, that would be really fantastic! Thank you very much!
No problem! How many do you need? Like 4?
-
No problem! How many do you need? Like 4?
Four would be perfect, if you have that many spare.
Thanks!
-
No problem! How many do you need? Like 4?
Four would be perfect, if you have that many spare.
Thanks!
I live to serve my tenatacular overlord.
-
Hurrah!
Time for another army list: grey knights/inquisition 1500 points
Inquisitor Coteaz 100
Ordo Xenos inquisitor - power armour, power sword, psykotroke grenades, 2 servo skulls 64
Vindicare Assassin 145
10 Purifiers - 2 incinerators, 6 halberds, 2 hammers, rhino 302
10 grey knights strike squad - 2 halberds, 2 psycannons, psybolts, rhino 290
10 henchmen - 3 plasma cannon servitors, 2 Jokaero, 5 warrior acolytes with pistol and sword, chimera 205
10 henchmen - 3 death cult, 3 crusaders, 3 warriors with meltaguns, 1 psyker, chimera 197
10 henchmen - 3 death cult, 3 crusaders, 3 warriors with meltaguns, 1 psyker, chimera 197
total = 1500 exactly.
The xenos inquisitor goes with the servitor squad, who shoot things. 3 plasma cannons and two lascannons, possibly with rending or +12" range! Coteaz joins one of the other henchmen squads, who can fight and also melt tanks. Coteaz can use his sanctuary power to upset people who want to charge them. The strike squad can deep strike if they feel like it, instead of using their rhino. Deepstrike = psycannons into the rear armour of tanks!
Can an independent character start the game in a dedicated transport if the transport's squad don't start in it also? So just Coteaz in the rhino while the strike squad stay in reserve? EDIT: I think they can.
Also, is the Vindicare's turbo-penetrator shot 3+4d6 with rending? Or just 4d6? It's listed as a sniper weapon, so should get S3 and rending, but I'm not sure if the 4d6 is intended to replace that. EDIT: seems to be 3+4d6, with every six on the 4d6 counting for rending.
Also also, ludicrous argument about how the purifiers' power works:
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=235020&st=0
!
-
The Dark Eldar have discovered that 3+ cover saves don't matter so much for 3 jetbikes when they're bladestormed by 10 Dire Avengers. :icon_cool:
-
Hey Rufus,
Only the squad the transport is bought for can start in it. If your inquisitor wants to start in it, he will need to be attached to the squad in the chimera. Otherwise you will have to deploy right behind it and jump in on turn 1, which is hardly the end of the world. Id quote pages for you, but I don't have my rulebook at work!
Im not sure exactly how the vindicare works. Our groups just been using it as 4d6 without the +3 str because the ammo rules are quite specific on its armour penetration and we would expect it to say 4d6+3 if it was intended. Doesn't really seem to matter as 14 is statistically average on 4d6 anyway!
-
Thanks crimson!
The vindicare seems to be controversial: I've seen some very angry forum arguments about it. Still, even if you don't get the +3, you still get four chances for rending!
Cortez probably wants to be with a squad rather than riding alone anyway.
-
I can see why their might be a lot of angry people discussing this. So far with just 4d6 the local grey knight players vindicare has penetrated every tank he has shot and with ap1 hes blown nearly all of them up in 1 shot! It seems fairly powerful without the +3.
Id just speak to someone before a game, and see what they think. Most players are usually far more reasonable before a game when the +3 isnt so important [ie you are not asking for it when shooting up their landraider!]
-
Good advice!
The vindicare might be a bit mean, but at least I'm not bringing three autocannon dreadnoughts like most internet lists!
The really angry arguments are about it shooting the necron lego tower...
-
Lego tower? Monolith? LOL. That green crystal on top is like a lego piece. I can imagine most necron players hate vindicares now.
-
I can't look at necrons without thinking of lego.
-
I can't look at Necrons without passing out from absolute boredom.
-
I can't even think of Necron's witho-
So I played three 40k in 40 minutes matches today against Blood Angels. Trying out three different lists for use in a tournament I'm not even going to, but people like to practice and it gives me more games.
List 1: Wave Serpent, some Dire Avengers in it with Bladestorm and three Dark Reapers, one with tempest launcher.
Thoughts: DA in WS are solid, good at taking out enemy units in a massive bladestorm. Reapers absolutely brilliant against enemy MEQ and quite good versus the low armour levels expected. Took out half the marines before being killed by jetpacking assault marines. Alright, but hanging back a bit is meh, and got hammered by fast assaulting.
List 2: WS, DA, 5 Pathfinders.
Thoughts: Pathfinders in this level sucked badly. I was silly for even trying them, not nearly the threat required to divert his attention from just killing them off the bat with his damn fast marines.
List 3: WS, DA, Striking Scorpions with Scorpion Claw Exarch.
Thoughts: Much better. I enjoyed this one a -lot- more than the other two. I have a history with Striking Scorpions, as one of my first 40k games involved an Eldar player cheating his way to victory using them (which he did for awhile before being caught out). They atoned and took on double their number in assault marines, eventually dying but leaving only one marine left. The number of high initiative attacks plus powerfist makes them quite versatile, especially with a 3+ armour save.
-
What are the rules for 40K in 40min?
I have a history with Striking Scorpions, as one of my first 40k games involved an Eldar player cheating his way to victory using them (which he did for awhile before being caught out).
What did he do with them?
-
Well...he cheated!
Captain Obvious always to the rescue.
-
Assaulted first turn through a woods. Due to infiltrate they could deploy 12 inches away (no, over 12 you cheating balloon) and so with move through cover he was able to get the 6 he needed quite easily each time.
He was the kind of player who when rolling his dice to hit and wound, never looked at the dice. He looked at you to see what you were looking at. He was also a "Fluff" gamer.
We're using these, rufus: http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/2011cp.pdf
-
I am a fluff gamer too.....as stated grenade launchers and rocket launchers on steel legion. And the odd chimera in the army too.
-
400 points don't buy a lot of grey knights!
I'd have one and a half squads at most.
-
That'll teach you for being a powergamer rufus!
I am a fluff gamer too.....as stated grenade launchers and rocket launchers on steel legion. And the odd chimera in the army too.
Every man equipped with a Sword of Justice for their lasgun wound rolls.
-
Grey knights only have two troop choices without using special characters, and those rules forbid terminators too! And they aren't allowed to use their psychic powers.
So it doesn't look like much fun.
-
Powergamer!
-
Imperial guard would be so much better at powergaming those rules!
-
Cheap Chimeras agree with you.
-
platoon command in chimera
3 infantry squads in chimeras
35 guys and 4 chimeras! 400 points.
-
Imperial Guard are the ultimate army. If you can remember to shoot everything you have, I just don't see how people can lose with a stereotypical IG list with tons of troops and heavy weapons outside of rolling exceptionally poor during the game.
-
Imperial guard are a good army, but saying they are the ultimate army is a bit much IMO.
In my first 10 or so games, I really struggled to do much other than lose or draw. I have got the hang of list building and deployment now though, which matter a great deal more for guard than most other armies.
-
And there are some builds that still manage quiet well against IG lists. ...I just donīt know any.
Got to get back to produce more swords of justice for my rank and filers (donīt forget the ones for the Leman Russ Crew, driving people to fits with that Minigun Leman Russ is the pride and joy of my life).
-
My guardsmen use Autoguns so they can fire shards of broken Swords of Justice at the enemy.
-
...I just don't see how people can lose with a stereotypical IG list with tons of troops and heavy weapons outside of rolling exceptionally poor during the game.
Bah, I've beaten IG opponents often enough with my CSM, and they weren't all incompetents. All armies are beatable in 40K. IG are very good, yes, but saying you can't lose with them baring exceptionally bad luck is just defeatist bullshit, no offense.
-
Ways I have lost so far include.
1.Armies with out flanking transports full of assault troops. They can roll up your lines very easy.
2.Any kill point mission is pretty much an auto loss when you have 17+KPs and they have 5KPs
3.Dark/regular eldar armies are especially dangerous. Portals, fast transports full of assault troops [assault here is anything better than guardsmen in combat]. As soon as they get their army into hand to hand, its game over.
Obviously if you are stupid enough to engage in a ranged shooting match with guard, you deserve to lose as you are playing them at their strengths. Only tau have a reason to do this, and even then, they really need to be using kroot in hand to hand!
-
I am a fluff gamer too...
That's right, and if anyone argue that you aren't tell your dad Geppetto about it...
-
I am an IG player. I'm not being defeatist, haha. I'm being the defeater! I just don't see how people can die with so many officers on the field making so much re-rollable. I had bought the Apocalypse regiment box but ended up selling off half of it as I got bored with my hour-long shooting phases, to say nothing of my regular opponents sitting and watching endlessly. The enemy simply could not stay on the table, and if they were unlucky to make it to the 12" mark, it was just madness. Don't care how big the squad is, what they have, special rules, etc: nothing stopped there and continued in the next turn.
Not a daaaamn thing.
Of course, if you play with the groups I normally play with, my IG friends are treadheads and so don't really utilize orders very much. They rely on Leman Russes and such to kill off the enemy instead of gunlines. It's easier to pop a tank than a platoon entrenched, though.
-
Well, so you've obviously uncovered the holy grail of the undefeatable army, congratulations! You should demand royalties for your list.
:engel:
-
I am going to plau Rufus a 750 pt trial game for starters soon.
I deliberately left out tanks as they are a pain to transport, and I figure the grey knights might struggle to kill them at small points level without the vindicare.
so I fit in 60 men, 12 special weapons, 5 heavy weapons, 2 chimeras and 2 sentinels.
loling.
-
There was me thinking the key to winning 5th was all about transports. Infantry in the open or even in cover is just asking to be wiped out as far as my experience tells me. If the enemy reserve mosr of their army, utilise deep strikers and flankers, you wont get a lot of targets for a huge shooting phase.
It may well be easier to kill a tank than a platoon, however you need specific weapons to kill the tank. All the enemies small arms fire bounces straight off a Leman Russ. As long as you use target priority effectively, you can neutralise all threats to your armour and roll the enemy up.
-
I am going to plau Rufus a 750 pt trial game for starters soon.
I deliberately left out tanks as they are a pain to transport, and I figure the grey knights might struggle to kill them at small points level without the vindicare.
so I fit in 60 men, 12 special weapons, 5 heavy weapons, 2 chimeras and 2 sentinels.
loling.
Harsh.
I'm thinking 24 grey knights, 2 rhinos, one inquisitor.
-
There was me thinking the key to winning 5th was all about transports. Infantry in the open or even in cover is just asking to be wiped out as far as my experience tells me. If the enemy reserve mosr of their army, utilise deep strikers and flankers, you wont get a lot of targets for a huge shooting phase.
It may well be easier to kill a tank than a platoon, however you need specific weapons to kill the tank. All the enemies small arms fire bounces straight off a Leman Russ. As long as you use target priority effectively, you can neutralise all threats to your armour and roll the enemy up.
Well, yeah, infantry in the open is just asking to be wiped out, haha. But cover is just too damn good to think it's all about transports. Not to mention if you play with squadrons you're begging to lose your vehicles on immobilizes. Since the majority of the transports are light armor (10-12) there are plenty of cheap weapons for the infantry platoons to take that can deal with both light armor and heavy infantry. You utilize heavy weapon teams to focus fire with command company orders to bring down anything bigger.
As far as reserves and flanking, you can keep your forces in reserves too. Considering that you can take a few vanilla platoons just in case to blob 'em up and hold 'em in reserve while centralizing your heavy weapons and command in the center, when the enemy flanks they aren't going to have a whole lot to shoot/charge. Now bring in your blobissars or whatever you kept in reserves and ta-dah - you've got 'em in a crossfire. That's just common strategy, not attuned to IG in particular. Not to mention if he doesn't flank his WHOLE army, then you have even fewer targets to focus on during the shooting phase; target priority becomes easier.
Deep striking happens, and as a former all drop pod Black Templar player, it can really suck. Granted some armies have rules that bring in half or something turn one. Daemons and Space Marines come to mind. Clearly if it's dreadnoughts, you dakka-dakka them with anti-armor; if it's troops, you triple tap. Daemons have some nastiness up their sleeves at times, but like terminators, it's all about volume of fire. If they enter far away from your lines, well, shoot at 'em while they footslog it across the field; if not, do it anyway.
I think you're forgetting that casualties happen - on BOTH sides. It's part of the game. But without the ability to consolidate into fresh troops, flanking and slaughtering a single 10 man squad and then sitting there with your guys' thumbs up their asses doesn't accomplish a whole lot in the end, especially when a nonchalant 90-degree turn ends up with that entire close combat squad being evaporated. If you let someone flank in and attack multiple squads at once, well, that's just failure to understand how charging works and how to counter it, and not an inherent weakness of IG.
Finally, concerning taking out the anti-tank, it becomes difficult if you aren't dishing out 20-30 wounds from a single unit in order to reach that heavy weapon team nestled deep inside. Not saying impossible, mind you, but with so many weapons on the field, it's far more likely that all the scary stuff will be neutralized before that happens, leaving maybe some weaker transports for other weapons (or even just frags) to handle. And if you have a ton of nasty, scary treads/monsters on the field, then you don't have the points for a whole lot else, which means taking the Kill Points (which are stupid and complete unfair, though provide another strength IG has over most armies), digging in, and waiting out the game.
Don't get me wrong, though. I've considered a Black Templar list of 5 Land Raider Crusaders just to lol while the enemy struggles to do anything to 'em, all the while mowing down infantry with hurricane sponsons and assault cannons while the multi-meltas machine spirits the vehicles. In that vein, target priority is important to negating the enemy's ability to fight the list and I agree it'd be funny to see, but a key to that list is the 14 AR all the way around, something only one other vehicle shares.
That said, anyone make a new Battle Sisters list yet?
-
a couple of melters should work great against that Black Templar list, hmm I guess Eldar would trash them too with their silly grenades or you just have to go against Rufus Vindikiller.
IG is strong but they still donīt take all the tournaments out there.
-
Oh, I know they don't, but like I said, all the IG I know (about 5-6 guys) don't take all humans; they like their armor, valkyries (I LOVE my vals), Banewolves, etc. I wonder how many people have fought all dudes in t-shirts and flashlights with officers and heavies hiding behind cover. I know I've played the list twice and it was just ridiculous both times. I stopped playing it 'cause I just didn't have the patience to sit there and shoot for a solid hour, nevermind the rest of the phase. That and my friends told me "no".
As far as the BT list, the meltaguns are short range (multi-meltas are a rarity as it is, not to mention most armies don't have 'em at all, so 24" range isn't a huge threat), as are grenades (and Lance doesn't have any special effect on a Blessed Hull BT Land Raider). Not saying that the BT 5 LRC list is in anyway unstoppable (clearly an AT heavy army will kill it bad), which means a lot of maneuvering and shooting (Praise be the Machine Spirit). But even a remotely "balanced" list (leaning anti-armor) would struggle without consistently high rolls, and unlike other armor, without high strength shots you can't even threaten it. Frags and kraks aren't going to help. Not to mention there are still Templars in two of the vehicles, plus the Emperor's Champion (who can take a squad of infantry easily on his own). ... and two dreadnoughts to boot!
Honestly, I'd imagine Necrons to be the real hard asses against a list like that, what with all the glancing hits from their gauss rifles. Either way, in the tournament scene, it'd be scary to bump into. As someone said earlier, "I thought the key to 5th was transports." Yeah, well, I guess it is - if your transports are LRCs!
-
I will build Sisters of Battle. But not a WAAC list. So some here will not care about anything I do with them. :closed-eyes:
-
You could make some naked sculpts...those are not WAAC but most would care about them.
-
I'd like to know what you do with 'em. My best friend runs Sisters, and she's trying to figure out how to use 'em now.
-
A list was suggested to me (well, they gave the idea) for 40k in 40 minutes.
2 Wave Serpents with Twinlinked Shuriken Cannons and Shuriken Cannons, each has 5 Dire Avengers.
Warwalker with twin Scatter lasers.
It is a very silly list.
-
Hey Blauer,
I think you must be a better general than I am with guard, as I have no end of trouble getting my infantry to do anything. Bs3 heavy weapons are unreliable, and buying voxes and platoon officers is ineffective/inefficient. Not to mention the fact that heavy weapon squads, the only unit I would want voxes on, cant take them!
Of course if you really want orders to get through you can take a Commissar Lord and sit him in the middle of all your heavy support units. Again not a cheap option and he is not very survivable.
I have to say I generally dont bother with orders at all, except on my vets/command squads as they tend to have the most heavy weapons. Occasionally first rank fire is useful, but it rarely kills any extra models. I suppose if I had a unit of 50 conscripts with an attached character boosting their leadership this might work, but again it is expensive to do!
I tend to take two artillery tanks and a single russ, along with a collection of transports, sentinels etc. My infantry generally use autocannons, grenade launchers, flamers and missile launchers. Other weapons are reserved for my bs4 guys.
I find my Collossus can happily clean out any bunkered up unit, from guardsmen to power armour. Hide in all the cover you want, I will still wound on 2s with no cover saves at ap3...
-
Concerning a Colossus, you need to hope you get first turn or that piece of origami is getting shredded, not to mention it's only two blast templates with BS3 when it does fire. With Creed, you can flank one of your platoons for free (you give the platoon with the two melta gun special squads that benefit), and you go kick the Colossus over if it hasn't been dealt with by the plethora of heavy weapons on the field. Not to mention against all-comers list the Colossus isn't going to win you any games against most armies (24" minimum range is pretty open to vulnerabilities against fast movers nor does it threaten any real armor). Oh, and like all blast template weapons, you need LoS to benefit from that -3" BS; if you can see, you can be seen. Blindfiring's fine, but now you need a 5+ to hit, effectively (on the scatter dice). You may want to take out that lascannon heavy weapons team, but if it scatters enough off course, the gambit fails. Annnd there's the fact if you think you can't kill something like that turn one (assuming you know it's coming for ya'), you can keep a sizable portion of your forces in reserve to minimize scatter damage.
Concerning orders and leadership, you take Kell for Ld10 orders (4 per turn, up to 24") with Creed. The 2,000-point list I drew up right quick to get an estimate of what your opponent could be facing (I don't know if this was the exact list I played, but it was close enough):
-8 Lascannons, 6 Missile Launchers, 6 Autocannons
-9 Meltaguns, 12 Flamers
-3 Junior Officers, 1 Company Commander, 1 Creed/Kell
-2 Masters of Ordnance, 1 Officer of Fleet
-149 Wounds
If that doesn't seem like a whole lot, here's another caveat: that's 1,597 points. That's a lot of dakka still to go. If you absolutely want to bring armor, you still got the points. Hell, at ~1,600 points, you can give a 2K list a run for its money already, though it would certainly be tough lacking almost 25% of the points. You got meltaguns in the gunline to deal with deepstriking scaries and flamers in the platoon commands to deal with infantry reaching the line. They can support the flanks with an extra in the middle (or wherever you think the enemy might hit in force), and the company commanders can keep the line secure the rest of the length.
As far as voxes, I agree. I would only take them on the company commanders (they aren't included in that list, yet). Why only on them? Give them "on my target" and drop MoO's Basilisk round that forces the opponent to re-roll cover. On a re-rollable 9/10 Ld, it ain't failing without extremely bad luck. That's 10 points of vox for some very powerful shooting (plus a lascannon).
But the key is not to rely on orders. The orders are there as a buff, a bonus to an already impressive amount of shooty-killy on the field. It goes from "Wow, that's a lot of guns" to "Wow, that's a lot of guns and they're hitting with all sorts of special effects". IG is one of the few armies you can drop mathhammer on, and say "if it doesn't work, I had a bad game". If you roll average, half of the army is hitting. If you roll below average, well, you rolled below average; that has to be taken into consideration (even SPEHSS MEHREENS miss on 1s and 2s). But then again, if you roll ABOVE average... guess the game won't make it to round 5, barring any leftover reserves that haven't come in yet.
Finally, I'll say this about First Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!: when you watch two infantry squads evaporate a 5-man termie squad using storm shields with it while the Leman Russ rounds bounce clean off of them, you'll find that it more than enough to get the job done.
-
Well I've been working on my space vikings for a while now. Settled on the great wolf's company using a converted version of the rampant white wolf bearing a dane axe as my great company patch. did decals up in illustrator.
so my list is this
a hurricane bolter land raider with Logan Grimnar and 7 other terminators inside
2 with wolf claws 4 with weapon and shield and 1 with auto cannon
a rune priest with combi melta and frost axe
2 units of long fangs with sergeant
1 with all miniguns and the other with all rocket launchers
Bjorn Fellhand with the auto cannon
2 units of 10 Grey hunters 1 with grenades the other with 2 meltas
a unit of 10 blood claws led by Loki erm Lucas the trickster
2 drop pods and 2 rhino's which carry the bloodclaws, Bjorn and the units of grey hunters.
Basic colors are all but finally blocked in ready for the first washes shadows and inks and onto the highlights and so forth. I'm thinking of doing up some knot work decals for the vehicles besides the heraldry blazons essentially to dress them up even more and give them the hand painted detail out the ying yang look. (god I love Illustrator) Do you think ppl would buy stuff that looked nice themed for their armies? Greek key patterns, scrolls, runes etc and so forth with appropriate background colors for blending in with any weathering and base colors already placed on the vehicles.
-
The colossus is a single large template, not two. Is it the main target in my army? Answer no. I can usually hide it out of line of sight, protected on all sides by infantry using the bubble tactic. Sure it is unreliable, but it only takes one hit to wipe out any power armour unit.
The reason is, I have a Manticore as well, which can do area saturation very well and a choice of one of my 6 Leman Russ chassis. A single Russ can spearhead an armoured assault by all my Chimeras by providing cover for them.
You can probably do better than I can with Orders if you use special characters. My group dont use them, so no outflanking from Creed.
I generally play 1850 points games, no special characters.
In a normal list of mine, I would throw down the following heavy firepower
3x twin lascannon and a pair of heavy bolters on Valkyrie Vendetta.
1x Colossus
1x Manticore
1x Russ of some type
4x chimera, two with hull heavy bolters, 2 with hull heavy flamers, all 4 with multi lasers.
Infantry bring the following to the party
3x meltaguns, 5x plasmaguns, 2 autocannon, 2 missile launcher, 4 grenade launcher, 5 flamers, 1 heavy flamer, 1 MoO
In addition to this, I usually take 1 or 2 sentinels of some type or a hellhound varient. I dont really have a fixed list, but the above choices usually feature.
-
My Vostroyan plasma squad arrived from ebay! They are awesome.
So now I have five veteran squads and two normal ones.
if you use special characters. My group dont use them
That seems a bit unfair, since many army books are built around special characters unlocking certain types of list.
I don't want to use Inquisitor Cortez just to be able to have multiple units of henchmen, but book insists on it!
-
Blauer Nebel, donīt be that guy telling everyone he has the unbeatable list....nobody likes that guy and it always is...well not true.
It just results in childish, ha ha I can field this and this and that and smack your list on the arse like I always slap two ton sally.
I bet Philly could come up with an Orc list that would rape your IG infantry heavy list. TAU might be able to outshoot you the list goes on and on. So still my point would be IG is a very very strong list especially with all infantry but far from being undefeatable, the last european championship I remember a German guy fielding an IG leafblower list with gazillion of autocannons and several other hard armour piercing heavy weapons and rest filled up with grunts, failed. He got smashed. The games he did win his opponent ran away or hid the whole game in reserve to deny him points.
-
My Vostroyan plasma squad arrived from ebay! They are awesome.
So now I have five veteran squads and two normal ones.
if you use special characters. My group dont use them
That seems a bit unfair, since many army books are built around special characters unlocking certain types of list.
I don't want to use Inquisitor Cortez just to be able to have multiple units of henchmen, but book insists on it!
You are quite right Rufus. We have however never allowed special characters generally since 2nd edition 40k and 4th edition fantasy. It is however becoming harder to keep the ban when it makes some armies unusable [deathwing/ravenwing come to mind]. The problem we have is we have people who are out and out power gamers who play with us. They use special characters against each other. Our agreement is that everyone is free to use special characters providing both players agree but I personally don't want to. Seems utterly stupid to me that a special character rocks up with 50 blokes in a tiny skirmish. Special chars really should be for specific scenarios or in epic scale only IMO.
I beleive you can buy a regular HQ [the equivalent to a chapter master] who allows you to get scoring units, so your henchmen could still score, without using a special character.
I have a plasma vet unit made from the forge world cadian vets. They are quality models. :-D
-
The colossus is a single large template, not two.
You said you had two Collosus..es(?). Collosi?
And I don't run that list anymore, Fan. Did it two games and it was enough. Both times it was vastly outgunning the enemy. Sure, can you design a list against it? Absolutely; you can design a list against ANY army. You could say, "Oh, IG. I'm taking all these anti-infantry". Then it's "Oh? Then I'm taking Templars with all LRCs." "Oh, then I'm taking anti-" and then it goes back and forth and you don't actually play because you keep meta-gaming to get an advantage. Six hours later and the store closes. But against all-comers lists, such a gunline has such flexibility and utility that I'm amazed people aren't using it more.
I don't know what the Euro scene is like or what the restrictions were, but anything in this area that list would crush - and when I've used it, did crush. It definitely has a psychological impact, too. Personally, I play my Space Marines like IG and my IG like Space Marines, which makes the lists more interesting for me to play. I simply brought this list up because with a competent commander behind it and average playing field, that list isn't losing without severely bad rolls. I'd go so far as to bet money on it.
Of course, the clincher is "competent commander" - a variable wildly influencing its success rate, naturally.
Also, Tau aren't outshooting Guard. If they are, Guard dropped the ball somewhere, probably during the list make-up.
Concerning the special character issue, if you don't like 'em, get ready to be left behind. Ten bucks says 40K 7th Edition has us using cards instead of Codexes and fielding a few characters and some meatshields like Warmachine. It's why I'm losing interest in 40K and picking up Fantasy more. I'm tired of having my HQs be the same as everyone else in my army. You can take this guy with almost the same stuff, but not quite, and his stuff isn't 1 or 2 AP less, nor does he have a neat army-wide special rule... Oh, and did I mention even with all that, the special character is still CHEAPER? Yeah, the power creep in 5th has been disheartening, and I don't see a way they're gonna' fix that without some HUGE errata in 6th to allow multiple armies having "doctrines" and some sort of agreement-only on special characters.
They're the future, and it's lookin' pretty bleak.
-
The internet is so depressing!
I beleive you can buy a regular HQ [the equivalent to a chapter master] who allows you to get scoring units, so your henchmen could still score, without using a special character.
Well, yes, but:
- the grey knight grandmaster costs about 200 points (!), and is far more powergamey than Inquisitor Cortez (grenades of doom!).
- and also the librarian is even more powergametastic than the grandmaster.
- if I took a grandmaster, I could only have one henchmen unit anyway (you get one per inquisitor, unless you have Cortez).
- I want an inquisition army with grey knights in support, not a grey knights army. The only way to do that is to use Cortez, because they took out the old ally rules.
- the grey knights army list only has two units in the troops section! Two!
Therefore, Cortez is mandatory!
I'd be happy to not use him if someone agreed to let me use henchmen as troops anyway though...
-
Well...point is your list has even more potential and yes it was used that way already
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html (http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2009/09/40k-ard-boys-armylist-leafblower.html)
Kind of could kill the 40k is so much more balanced and so much more about tactics than warhammer fantasy.
-
I only said colossus. Which I probably spelled incorrectly, but I meant 1. I do have a Medusa as well, but that seems less useful.
I don't understand how any list can realistically take on all comers with a better than average chance of winning. It always seems to me that whatever list you design, you can always come across a list that will tear it to shreds.
A gunline is incredibly boring to play as and against. It is boring in fantasy, and it is boring in 40k. If you don't outshoot the enemy you lose. Great fun for everyone! :eusa_wall:
I prefer my guard to have three sections rather than just sitting back shooting. Foot infantry in the backfield, mechanised assault to capture/contest objectives and ranged support from tanks etc across the whole table.
Do I consider myself a competent commander? I would say it depends. I have more wins with Guard than Chaos and Eldar, but that could be due to the fact the Guard is a new book. I wouldn't say I was drastically worse or better than most of my group, although I usually destroy our relative new player [only two years gaming experience vs my near seventeen].
I would expect a foot guard army to be ripped limb from limb by any number of dark eldar or tyranid armies. I know this from experience. Any army which can cross the table rapidly, with competent close combat troops will kill a guard foot army. It just needs to make hand to hand combat.
I would also question if you have enough terrain on the table. If you have very little, then a gunline guard list will be incredibly successful.
-
Correct. Foot guard certainly isn't bad, but it is vulnerable to a number of things - and it sucks at taking objectives, which doesn't make it very good at actually winning (as opposed to just shooting things up).
Besides, just to answer one of your examples - 2 squads of Guard "evaporating" a squad of assault termies with FRFSRF is highly unlikely. All those shots will on average drop one or two.
-
Well they slice one squad of 10 guardsmen (or three or four) and have to endure another round of massive fire.
Problem with 40K is not that it is a gunline but it is THE gunline that pretty decently prevents shock troops (if you allow demonhunters old list) or reserves coming in with two fleet commanders.
It is also very flexible for killpoint missions or scoring units wise you can opt to use 50 strong units or 5 units of 10. It is a very hard list. And all commers wise it has good chances to win even with little skill.
-
Well they slice one squad of 10 guardsmen (or three or four) and have to endure another round of massive fire.
Right, which is why assault terminators are not very good vs. Guard - a few high strength attacks won't do much. I was not making any statement about their quality, merely about the shooting efficiency of lasguns against them (it takes about 36 shots to kill one trerminator on average).
Problem with 40K is not that it is a gunline but it is THE gunline that pretty decently prevents shock troops (if you allow demonhunters old list) or reserves coming in with two fleet commanders.
It is also very flexible for killpoint missions or scoring units wise you can opt to use 50 strong units or 5 units of 10. It is a very hard list. And all commers wise it has good chances to win even with little skill.
Sure it is a very hard list. But it's slow! In objective missions you will often draw or lose, as you have little means to be offensive. 2/3 of the time it will be an objective mission. And assault troops with lots of attacks / poison (Dark Eldar, some Nid builds) will still kick your ass - especially since those big blobs will all shoot the same target, usually massively overkilling it.
-
Well therefore the better all comers leaf blower list is much more thought out, I think almost everything in transports lots of special weapons and more tricky tricks.
I think the usual tournament size isnīt 2500 points either is it?
-
Nope, between 1500 and 2000 is the usual.
Besides, we are talking about foot guard, aren't we? I know how strong mech guard is, I play it myself.
:-D
-
Are you sure two Masters of the fleet penalties are cumulative? I dont see anything to suggest they are! I am fairly certain Astropaths bonuses are not.
I find putting soldiers in chimeras is a much more flexible way to play than to go all foot. If the worst happens and you get assaulted, a chimera gains you an additional round of survivability, as they have to kill your armoured box first.
That Bell of Souls list is pretty evil. However I beleive allies are now illegal, so I don't see how you could use the Inquisitor now? It has quite a lot in common with my own theories of building a good guard list, except I build my lists somewhat softer.
Guard in my experience are terrible at KP missions. I have so many units [cant join them together if they have chimera] that it is relatively easy for me to lose more units than the enemy has. This is because I tend to have a lot of armour 12 units roaming the table [4-10] which can be brought down fairly sharpish if the enemy has enough heavy weapons. While this rarely affects me in objective games, in KPs it cripples me.
Why do I build lists like this? Simply because 2/3rds of the missions are objectives and transports help me win those missions.
Edit: I dont beleive you can have inquisitors because the book they could be taken from is no longer current! My own guard is Hybrid, half in transports, half on foot.
-
Are you sure you canīt join chimera squads together? I understood it that way that you can join but canīt use the chimeras as transports no more.
-
Edit: I dont beleive you can have inquisitors because the book they could be taken from is no longer current! My own guard is Hybrid, half in transports, half on foot.
Yep - both old Inquisition codices are outdated now, so no more Inquisition allies.
And yes, my list is mostly mechanized - but it still has 65 footsloggers. Because I love 'em. And they're painted (And I don't have enough Chimeras to go all mech... :-D).
Aaand Fandir is right - provided you put regular platoon grunts into your perfectly good APCs instead of veterans.
-
Checking the FAQ Chrimson is right no stack of astropath or master of the fleet only advantage to have two is you get to use the rule should one get killed in action.
I like saying KIA it reminds me of Jagged Alliance and several other warlike games.
MIA ...KIA......off with your grunts I want to collect your dog tags.
-
The Bells list was done before all these changes. You simply cant exploit the books as much any more.
I usually have around 20-40 on foot and around 40-50 in transports. I can easily field a fully painted army now too :) Although I do have a large amount of unpainted models, because I always buy more than I use.
My vets and CCS/PCS use chimeras mainly, and any spares I have go to my platoon [usually two]. I usually only field one, and attach 4 or 5 infantry squads to it. Sorry that was my point Fandir, I like to use my chimeras to transport my guys. I dont tend to put all my platoon in 1 blob, and I dont use power swords at all with my guard.
I probably wont ever go fully mechanised, I have no desire to do so. My army has too many static weapon platforms to make it worthwhile.
-
Chimeras are so awesome.
Has anyone used that rough rider special character? Is he any good? Because I think one of the rough riders I bought on ebay is him.
-
Has anyone used that rough rider special character? Is he any good? Because I think one of the rough riders I bought on ebay is him.
He is quite possibly the worst entry in the entire codex, and appears on "worst 40K units ever" lists. He gives his squad rage, which you really, really do not want in a countercharge unit. On top of that, his stats aren't much better than those of a regular RR sergeant, making him an overpriced dude crippling his squad. Steer clear.
-
Oh. That's a shame!
40 points saved I suppose. No lame cartoon Genghis Khan for me!
-
I wonder why Sisters of Battle did not get anykind of low-level or different army build unlocking special character. Really beats me since everyone else and their mommas have gotten it so far. We only got... Less units and less stuff. No more Landraiders...
We only got better priests and they brough along a unit that is only for close quarters, so no ability at all to include Guardsmen in any capacity. Heck, not even Adeptus Arbites!
But regardless of the junklist we got served via WD I firmly believe my Sisters would eait Blauer Nebel IG for breakfast. Because they are obviously heretics and because the Emperor so wishes! :closed-eyes:
-
Has anyone used that rough rider special character? Is he any good? Because I think one of the rough riders I bought on ebay is him.
He is quite possibly the worst entry in the entire codex, and appears on "worst 40K units ever" lists. He gives his squad rage, which you really, really do not want in a countercharge unit. On top of that, his stats aren't much better than those of a regular RR sergeant, making him an overpriced dude crippling his squad. Steer clear.
I 100% agree with Aldaris. Worst special Character in any 5th ed codex I have read.
Mathi, I dont beleive guard can change their army build with special characters? They can get outflanking, unlimited conscripts etc, but nothing that changes the composition. Nor do the nids for that matter.
-
I only said colossus. Which I probably spelled incorrectly, but I meant 1. I do have a Medusa as well, but that seems less useful.
I read "2 arty" and saw "Collossus". I figured they were both Collossus since the other wasn't defined. My b.
A gunline is incredibly boring to play as and against. It is boring in fantasy, and it is boring in 40k. If you don't outshoot the enemy you lose. Great fun for everyone! :eusa_wall:
I agree - that's why I don't play it. But that doesn't change effectiveness.
I would expect a foot guard army to be ripped limb from limb by any number of dark eldar or tyranid armies. I know this from experience. Any army which can cross the table rapidly, with competent close combat troops will kill a guard foot army. It just needs to make hand to hand combat.
That's what the twenty vanilla guard are there for. 2" apart, make a line in front of the enemy. Can't charge through it, and no consolidations into fresh troops afterward. Kill off the twenty Guard, and lololol while you triple tap them in their faces. I'd make a guess that such a scenario cost them ten times more points than your 100 points of expendable Guard that was cut down. As I've said before, if you know what you're doing, multiple close combat assaults in 5th edition are more your failure than your enemy's skill. It's WAY too easy to keep them from killing off your troops in HTH through multiple combats.
I would also question if you have enough terrain on the table. If you have very little, then a gunline guard list will be incredibly successful.
I got into the hobby with Necromunda. When it comes to terrain, I hardly think there's enough. But it goes both ways; with little terrain, there's little to hide behind, but that means the IG will lack the cover. With too much, they get cover saves, but so do the IG. Difference is, IG benefits more from more terrain than less.
Correct. Foot guard certainly isn't bad, but it is vulnerable to a number of things - and it sucks at taking objectives, which doesn't make it very good at actually winning (as opposed to just shooting things up).
Besides, just to answer one of your examples - 2 squads of Guard "evaporating" a squad of assault termies with FRFSRF is highly unlikely. All those shots will on average drop one or two.
7"-12" in a turn (with Move, Move, Move, even more likely to roll higher)? I don't see how grabbing objectives is difficult. That and you have a platoon that can scout, so depending on the game, you can have a plan to sweep in and take 'em. Can you fly from one corner of the table to the other in one turn to secure an objective? No, but you can't do that with a Valkyrie either (24"). Gotta' have a plan. It all comes down to planning.
Also, as for the termies, I've seen it enough not to underestimate IG (that's 22 lasguns per squad plus heavy weapon times two). Maybe I played more games with Guard (either as or against) or something (I highly doubt that since I don't play that much), and yet I've seen it happen a handful of times since the Codex came out. Call it PTSD or whatever, but I'm not stupid enough to get in 12" range with Guard unless I'm somehow hitting them all at once. I don't care if they have 2+s and Feel No Pain and the Hand of the Emperor Himself going "FORCE FIELD FORCE FIELD FORCE FIELD" in front of it, 12" with Guard means I'm removing squads from the table.
I 100% agree with Aldaris. Worst special Character in any 5th ed codex I have read.
Mathi, I dont beleive guard can change their army build with special characters? They can get outflanking, unlimited conscripts etc, but nothing that changes the composition. Nor do the nids for that matter.
Rough Riders are crap anyway. Only fitting their character would be too. And like Crim said, we lost our doctrines. So even though my BT and Codex Marines don't use specials (I hate 'em), I'm completely forced to roll special characters with my IG to have SOME semblance of a reconnaissance unit. I don't see why 40K doesn't do what Apocalypse did with data sheets: have these guys, pay these extra points, get these special rules. Simple and to the point, and it's been proven to WORK!
Regarding the Bell list, it's nice, but as others have said it's illegal now. I had to tell my friend last night that his inquisitorial retinue is no more for his IG due to the Sisters Codex; he was sad. Allies are gone from Warhammer, it seems, at least as single lists go, which sucks (no more Kroot, no more Inquisition, no more Ogres...). I will say that the list could be done a little better. The inquisitor should have had multi-melta servitors and Sanctuary. Let the Guard do their thing; take out the deepstrikers himself. The auto-shot from Mystics was like, what, 4D6"? Average of 14"? And that's assuming the enemy's that far out; if they're closer, I wouldn't be shooting arty that danger-close. BS4 Multi-meltas would be nasty, and 2D6 armor penetration at roughly the average radius of the mystics' ability.
Plus, if you were playing daemons, so much as touching a Sanctuary field (which effectively remained in the game until the inquisitor moved) with deepstriking meant the unit's destroyed instantly, as per the RAW of Codex: Daemonhunters. No mishap table, straight up gone.
We only got better priests and they brough along a unit that is only for close quarters, so no ability at all to include Guardsmen in any capacity. Heck, not even Adeptus Arbites!
But regardless of the junklist we got served via WD I firmly believe my Sisters would eait Blauer Nebel IG for breakfast. Because they are obviously heretics and because the Emperor so wishes! :closed-eyes:
SoB will still get schooled. Points increase means less sisters, and they shine at the 12" mark (IG do, too, but they can dish out the damage the whole way). Sister tanks are thin and lack the punch for dishing out significant ranged anti-infantry damage (I'm assuming the Exorcist is still using its original Codex weapon?). Hell, even the Immolators can't drive 12" and fire anymore. Dominions got nerfed bad, and while the walkers and Repentia are better, considering what they were, that ain't sayin' a whole lot! Sisters are for the masochistic: solid metal models that are costly and nearly impossible to do any sort of conversions with, plus one crappy army Codex after another. Clearly, the Emperor hates chicks.
But as I'm sure some of you have seen the "slipped" papers from the upcoming "true SoB Codex", there will be Arbites there again with Repressor variant Rhinos. Get to finally use all these Enforcers for something!
-
hmm well that's why I like my drop pods blauer. get in close with my space vikings where they have the advantage ans minimize the time your arty has to shoot at them. they might blow up a few but not likely all. which is the point of a fully armoured force. either way, it'd be fun to roll dice to find out first hand.
-
Oh I agree with that strategy, dH. I did it with my Black Templars in 4th (half drop pods, half Blacktide), and it was really fun (wish the FAQ gave us the Drop Pod Assault rules...). Only issue is, in terms of "my arty" (assuming you were referring to that 1600-point list), it's just two MoOs; everything else is direct fire hehe. Can drop in and do some damage, sure; that's the wonderful thing about drop pods (especially if y'all have the deathwind launchers, which I'm sure y'do). But then you're also standing in the middle of a massive crossfire. 12" IG = death. The only respite we had in 4th (as BT) was that if any survived (which they wouldn't in 5th against most IG gunlines), they would consolidate into HTH and eat face.
What armor do you bring with your Wolves to support the Drop Pod Assault?
-
hmm I've currently got a 2500 pt list in mind, which I have a pair of rhino's and a land raider Crusader with the multimelta turret major anti infantry. It's the list I posted a page or so ago, for 1600 points my philosophy would still be to close distance super quick with all kinds of bang bang while closing and then maul you in close combat. 1600 pts might not have room for big ugly characters but drop podding a rune priest with the "world wolf" rune magic on a line of lots of juicy troops is just what that psychic power was made for.
Gun lines are all about trying to get your opponent to charge right down the middle of a line of dug in troops, I tend to try not to do that. It just seems to me to be a really good way to get all shot up. For that matter against a gun line presuming I knew I was going to be facing one I might just bring wolf scouts which are not the pansy newbs that most marine scouts are but rather well grizzled killers adept at hiding and killing with impunity.
about drop pods so far as I remember after they land they count as cover and OPEN so therefore they can be assaulted from. as well as any impact or missile hits coming from them. I'd love to do the 5 minigun drop pods but SW's don't have those rules officially. Official rules aren't going to stop me from making a space wolf baneblade, valkyries, land speeder storm, Storm raven (renamed on Fenris as a Hugin class Thunder hawk) or for that matter creating a special class of Fenrisian non standard Predator like unto the Baal class predator.
For that matter the wolves are known for cooperating with the imp guard so why would there not be an IG regiment with either a SW flavour or outright SW markings. perhaps I shall make one too, after I've finished my current batch of models. be a hell of a combo.
-
about drop pods so far as I remember after they land they count as cover and OPEN so therefore they can be assaulted from.
Unfortunately, no. They count as an immobilized open-topped vehicle that you must disembark from and cannot re-enter. That, and you cannot assault from it (BRB rulebook says you cannot assault upon deepstriking). Blood Angels I think have a dreadnought that can, maybe, but unless it says specifically that they can assault from the drop pod, they cannot. Vanguard units with jump packs can deepstrike and assault when they come in (Heroic Intervention special rule), but other than that, I can't think of any Space Marines that can (aside from maybe a Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought or something crazy).
-
Vanguard units with jump packs can deepstrike and assault when they come in (Heroic Intervention special rule),
As long as they have no characters attached.
-
Do people use special weapon squads in IG armies at all? Or are they too fragile?
I have way too many special weapons to actually use them all otherwise.
-
Veterans and command squads fill out special weapon squads' role for me, so no I dont use them.
-
Do people use special weapon squads in IG armies at all? Or are they too fragile?
They can be nice, but I usually don't need them. Still, such a squad with maybe a demo charge and a couple of flamers could certainly do some damage at an affordable price.
-
Do people use special weapon squads in IG armies at all? Or are they too fragile?
I have way too many special weapons to actually use them all otherwise.
Why do you care what people use.....or well since when? Just use them and see if they work for you.
-
Thanks for the answers!
Not including Fandir, because he's mean. And a powergamer.
Why do you care what people use
I meant 'are they any good or not.'
Anyway I've reshuffled my army list so that the only spare special weapons I have now are two grenade launchers and a melta gun. So it's probably not worth bothering with those.
Now I need tanks!
Another question: do you have to roll to hit with the primaris psyker's lightning arc power? Using his BS of 3 or 4 or whatever it is? If so it's not as good as I thought.
-
You want powergamer advice...and disregard ME!!!???
Well I am not that into 40 k........yet.
Aldaris we have to talk.
-
You want powergamer advice...and disregard ME!!!???
Well I am not that into 40 k........yet.
Aldaris we have to talk.
And by "talk", you mean "play".
Fine with me - just tell me when you got time...
:wink:
-
November.
-
I like eldar too :)
I have squads of first edition dire avengers, striking scorpions, howling banshees, dark reapers and fire dragons.
I also have some newer aspects as well, warp spiders, shining spears, 2nd and 3rd releases of dire avengers, the second release banshees and 2nd release reapers!
Im just waiting for a new book, maybe with some new aspect warriors [Slicing Orbs of Zandros anyone?]
Dire Avengers are my favourite looking aspect, with Horse hair plumed helmets. Sexiest helmets ever.
I still have all my Rogue Trader squads too. I just wish that I had stocked up on more of them before Mail Order ceased to exist, as with Finecast replacing metal, I have no desire to continue to buy more models of the current range.
I don't understand why you're waiting for a new book, as Eldar are still perfectly viable in fifth edition, despite the claims to the contrary from a few narrow minded gamers.
-
Today a pack of books about the First World War landed in my mail. And rekindled that idea about making a WWI inspired IG army of my own. Maybe matching it with my Sisters of Battle. Damn it!
-
Vanguard units with jump packs can deepstrike and assault when they come in (Heroic Intervention special rule),
As long as they have no characters attached.
Right. So, bottom line, if you're deep striking, you're not charging (save for those very rare exceptions - and like CoD said, even they have caveats).
Do people use special weapon squads in IG armies at all? Or are they too fragile?
I have way too many special weapons to actually use them all otherwise.
Al'rahem's platoon:
-Command Squad with Al, 4 Plasma guns, Chimera
-2 Infantry squads with lasguns and flamers
-2 Special Weapon squads with meltaguns
I run an all reserves list with an Astropath. Only thing coming on my table edge is Straken, Nork and command squad, plus a veteran squad of shotguns and meltaguns - both in Chimeras. The platoon is designed to swarm infantry while dropping a vehicle or two sitting in the back (lots of plasma, lots of melta, plus the multi-laser on flanks/rear armor). Throw in "She's Like the Wind" (and the obligatory tune to carry the order), and you got some shooty + moving into cover afterward, oftentimes to take the objective or consolidate gained ground. Depending on rolls, Valkyries with Penal Legions and/or autocannon/HK missile Sentinels (who replaced my poor Kroot...) are there to provide additional support.
So yes, special weapon squads are good, unless you're ridin' dirty in Chimeras all across the battlefield (in which case you use Vets). My list uses them in a different roll and as part of a large ambush setup.
Another question: do you have to roll to hit with the primaris psyker's lightning arc power? Using his BS of 3 or 4 or whatever it is? If so it's not as good as I thought.
Yes. It isn't like WHFB where you have different classes of psychic powers. If it shoots, it's basically just their "weapon", albeit a bit stronger (most of the time).
-
I like the Primaris Psyker. I occasionally use him to add to my conscripts to give them decent leadership. The only issue I have is that an autocannon heavy weapons squad is more effective a lot of the time than he is, especially if shooting vehicles!
six shots at s7 vs a leadership test then 2d6 s6 shots. A lot more wounds on the troopers, who come from troops and not HQ. It is fairly close really so it depends on the rest of your army composition.
Special weapon squads are the unwanted black sheep of the platoon. No option for vox and bs 3 makes them worse than veterans for carrying most of the decent special weapons. Only valid use IMO is with flamers and/or a demo charge. If you don't want these, dont take them.
-
I have five veteran squads now, so I probably have too many special weapons anyway: two plasma squads, two melta squads, one flamer squad. Plus a quad melta command squad. And a platoon command with another three flamers.
The only issue I have is that an autocannon heavy weapons squad is more effective a lot of the time than he is, especially if shooting vehicles!
Damnit, the psyker is cool and the autocannons are not!
I'm expecting GW to release Codex: Autocannons soon.
Also, 40K forums still make me angry.
-
I rarely post on 40k forums :)
I sometimes post on warseer, although not in 40k and I used to post on Librarium Online, which isn't bad, or at least wasn't when I used to post there.
-
There always seems to be someone moaning about wysiwyg, or being incredibly lame about rule interpretations.
Or complaining about that guy who wrote some of the army books.
Or, worst of all, putting their win/loss record in their forum signature.
-
Or complaining about that guy who wrote some of the army books.
Oh yes. That's annoying!
Or, worst of all, putting their win/loss record in their forum signature.
And that's embarassing. And somewhat amusing.
:-D
-
Or, worst of all, putting their win/loss record in their forum signature.
I notice that they always have at least twice as many wins as losses. They're the winningest winners in the history of winning!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-psEHDJzVR4c/TXTynvldd5I/AAAAAAAADWI/ophxTFvNykk/s1600/duh%252C+winning.jpg)
-
Second sphere is a good place, at least in my eyes, Rufus. Stop being annoyed by people. Just imagine they are squids! :icon_razz:
-
For normal games of 40k, I'm thinking 3 Wraithlords. Any thoughts, other than "Don't play Dark Eldar" ?
Each will have a Eldar Missile Launcher and a Wraithsword, because I like the sword.
-
Thankfully there's no complaining on W-E. At least not about 40K, that is. :icon_wink: :icon_lol:
(GP ... what are you doing?)
Who, me? Nothing. :engel:
-
For normal games of 40k, I'm thinking 3 Wraithlords. Any thoughts, other than "Don't play Dark Eldar" ?
Each will have a Eldar Missile Launcher and a Wraithsword, because I like the sword.
Yeah definitely dont play dark eldar! I normally use Wraithguard [I own 15] and my old school Wraithlord [ EML/BL combo] so I know this all too well. You may want to also include an Avatar [if you own one], as he works well with combat Wraithlords.
I take it you don't play the "competitive" [which I translate as lame] 5 man dire avengers in wave serpent list build? Foot eldar and hybrid [which I play] can be fun, but I have a lot of trouble against true 5th edition lists. No problems so far against 4th ed ones. Grey Knights are not fun for eldar either.
If I put up my wins/draws/losses they would make really funny reading. The only army I have got a good record with was 6th edition Wood elves, but most of the others tend to be around 50% win rate, but some, such as my eldar, in 5th edition would be a 0% win with! :-D
-
Grey Knights are not fun for eldar either.
Hurrah!
Presumably a 'wraithlord' is just what they used to call an Eldar Dreadnought.
-
Basically - but it's a monstrous creature, not a vehicle. Which has advantages and disadvantages.
-
Which has advantages and disadvantages.
I have read the rules now, and know about such things!
Anyway, Eldar Dreadnought.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2100eldardreadnoughts-h.htm
I used to have one of these war walkers:
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2101eldardreadnoughts-h.htm
It's a ludicrous design, since the pilot is about as exposed as it's possible to be. I bet the modern ones have a cover of some sort.
-
Well since the very first edition of Warhammer 40K I have played there was an extremely powerful forcefield protecting the pilot, why they donīt make smaller walkers that can project that kind of forcefield on the whole machine or place some additional plating in front of the pilot remains a mystery.
(I think they deserve to be a dying race).
-
Saying 'there is a forcefield' sounds like an excuse for bad design to me...
-
Isnīt there a forcefield on terminator armours too? well around the head to....well give them ....more....awareness of their surrounding.
-
Which has advantages and disadvantages.
I have read the rules now, and know about such things!
Anyway, Eldar Dreadnought.
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2100eldardreadnoughts-h.htm
I used to have one of these war walkers:
http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2101eldardreadnoughts-h.htm
It's a ludicrous design, since the pilot is about as exposed as it's possible to be. I bet the modern ones have a cover of some sort.
My wraithlord is indeed the old dreadnaught model, it is around 15 years old, I have it since new. Most of my eldar models are from when I bought them in 2nd ed :) The big advantage of being a monstrous creature is not dying to a single hit from a meltagun, but poison is instead its bane.
My current edition plastic warwalkers have a glass shield from the front, and not a lot from the sides to protect the pilots. Im not 100% sure this would be better than a forcefield LOL.
I like the warwalkers as they are currently in terms of rules. Mine are a very suitable replacement for my wraithlord when playing dark eldar, and I can usually get 3 for the price of a single wraithlord...
-
That's also why I only like the armoured sentinels, not the scout ones.
And because the armoured ones are from Star Wars.
Damnit, why are sentinels Ģ18!
-
I own 4 sentinels, 3 armoured and 1 scout variant. I got all mine in Battalion boxes Rufus, I would never pay the cost otherwise.
I have two plasma cannon ones, one with a heavy flamer, and the scout one has a multi laser. [for cheapest occasional flanking in missions] Generally speaking armour 12 is good enough, its as good as most dreadnaughts but a sentinel is a much cheaper chassis.
I had one memorable game where a single plasma cannon sentinel wiped out 4 of 5 deep striking terminators, due to a direct hit from the cannon :) It then charged in and finished the last one off in combat the next turn :). The heavy flamer version is a beast vs nids and orks [avoid units with power clawz though]
-
I have three closed chassis ones I never use and that are in some drawer more or less in one piece....does it make sense to field them as the heavy version? The scouting ones seem cheap and fun.
-
The heavy armoured ones make very good infantry support units IMO. They are tall enough to see over chimera's and use them as cover while still shooting. If you give them plasma cannons, they are very scary to marine players, while still being cheap and importantly require proper anti tank weapons to put them down with any degree of success.
I usually send mine to clear out objectives, and assist in holding them. Due to the costings, this is the most viable platform for the heavy flamer and the cheapest plasma cannon mount. The other heavy weapons are best left to infantry units or tanks.
I usually use the scout one to pop up on a flank and shoot enemy transports, or assault into devastator type units. It hasn't been super effective, but it is dirt cheap! It attracts way more attention than it probably should do for its points though, so that is a good thing.
-
The armoured ones are good because of Star Wars!
I have three closed chassis ones I never use and that are in some drawer more or less in one piece
I want them!
I had one memorable game where a single plasma cannon sentinel wiped out 4 of 5 deep striking terminators, due to a direct hit from the cannon
Amazing!
See, this is why I don't want to use terminators.
-
Nothing wrong with terminators, but deep striking in line of sight and range of a plasma cannon blast template is very fool hardy!
-
There always seems to be someone moaning about wysiwyg, or being incredibly lame about rule interpretations.
Or complaining about that guy who wrote some of the army books.
Or, worst of all, putting their win/loss record in their forum signature.
You mean people don't do these things on Fantasy forums? Err, you might want to take a look around some of the other boards here a bit more often :icon_wink:.
For normal games of 40k, I'm thinking 3 Wraithlords. Any thoughts, other than "Don't play Dark Eldar" ?
Each will have a Eldar Missile Launcher and a Wraithsword, because I like the sword.
What else are you taking?
If you really want to take the Wraithsword, I recommend taking dual Flamers and possibly a Shuriken Cannon on each Wraithlord. In this way, they can run forward to set up assaults on vehicles, and tie up infantry, where appropriate. You will need to prevent Wraithsight issues somehow though, so building some kind of infantry block to go with them is advised.
If you like Wraith lists, you could take a scoring unit of Wraithguard led by a Spiritseer, but it's expensive, and rather slow, so you would have to think about adding mobile options to the rest of the list to compensate for this.
The only way Wraithlords work in a ranged anti-tank role in my experience is to give at least two of them an EML and Brightlance. Anything less simply isn't effective enough against AV12 (their primary target), or AV13 for that matter.
-
You mean people don't do these things on Fantasy forums?
They seem angrier on 40K forums.
I'm not sure if it was dakka dakka or bolter and chainsword.
-
Irisado, currently I'm not sure. Behind them was going to be two squads of gaurdians with spiritseer locks in them. I can easily add Bright lances, I had to cut two painted ones off one of them when I got them... so that's sorted. :engel:
Wraithgaurd are sadly currently out of the question. :-(
-
Scoring wraith guard are mighty. Add in a Farseer as well, with Fortune, and give the spirit seer either conceal if advancing or enhance if defending objectives. Providing you don't come across poison, this unit can be nigh unkillable [ I once took 60 attacks from an ork mob and took no wounds!] I have been known [and much hated] for putting a scoring unit of wraith guard at the back, and a smaller unit of 5 with a spirit seer in a wave serpent for objective contesting.
You do know Irisado, that the bright lance doesn't care about armour values? Armour 12, 13 and 14 are all the same to it and the wraith lord has the best ballistic skill out of all the platforms it can be mounted on.
MrDWhitey, bright lances on guardian platforms? How well do they do? I have never tried them on there. Mine usually have scats or EMLs as I dont trust bs3 particularly.
-
You do know Irisado, that the bright lance doesn't care about armour values?
Considering that he featured pretty prominently in the Eldar Tactica thread on Whineseer (IIRC) and says he's been playing them basically forever I imagine he does...
:wink:
(on the other hand it would be pretty epic if there was a response now of "Whaaaat? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!")
-
"Whaaaat? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!"
...so why is the devildog not so popular in IG armies...or at least I have not seen many suggestion to use its potential of lots of tank killing. It is fast so it can drive 12 inches and shoot its melta thingy 24 inches with deadly armour range of 12 inches. Not too bad for 120 points is it?
-
I think he means to use the bright lance together with the missile launcher... :icon_lol:
-
"Whaaaat? THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!"
Shhh!
Not by you!
...so why is the devildog not so popular in IG armies...or at least I have not seen many suggestion to use its potential of lots of tank killing. It is fast so it can drive 12 inches and shoot its melta thingy 24 inches with deadly armour range of 12 inches. Not too bad for 120 points is it?
It is very good, yes. Also keep in mind that you can mount a hull multimelta as well, making it truly nasty against armor, for an affordable price. The "problem" (if you can call it that) is twofold: AV12 on a very attractive target, and there are other very good options - Meltavets in Chimeras for instance, or Medusae, or Vendettas with 3 synchronized Lascannons that have established themselves as the internet standard.
It still is very viable though, if you want to go for a more unconventional list a couple of those babies can certainly handle your AT needs handsomely.
-
...so why is the devildog not so popular in IG armies
- Stupid name.
- fires a blast template.
-
- fires a blast template.
Which is not a drawback - place it centrally on a tank and you have a pretty good chance of hitting it with the hole. Also keep in mind that the rest of the template does 2D6 armor penetration as well whithin 12", so you can still do good damage even if you don't hit squarely.
-
- Stupid name.
Still, the kit appears to be easily switchable between the three variants, since the only difference is the end of the gun barrel. Or you could not bother to switch the gun, since no one is going to notice anyway.
-
I have the current hellhound kit. Each of the three nozzels fits snugly into the barrel making interchanging them easy! No need to magnetise, blue tac or anything!
My chassis has a hull multimelta on it, which I use regardless of turret, but I find the Bane wolf is the most useful variant. Devil Dog is okay, but really, I don't need two long range melta weapons on a tank, as if I move 12, I can only shoot 1 of them.
I dont have an issue with the blast template. Most guard tanks seem to have big blasts, so you kind of get used to them scattering. IMO a blast weapon is virtually the same accuracy as bs3 shooting anyway, at least in my experience.
-
At least it isnt called "mephistophelescanine"
-
Beelzebub Pooch.
-
Satan mutt.
-
Antichrist cur.
-
Asmodeus Ass....no that would be a donkey not appropriate for an IG warmachine.
-
Well, played a game with eldar, Howling Banshees are awesome.
-
Yes, they are quite annoying. Don't much like being shot though.
-
Yes, they are quite annoying. Don't much like being shot though.
They were both unlucky and lucky. First turn for some reason their owner rammed a Wave Serpent into a Whirlwind thinking it an easy kill. Cue one immobilised artillery piece and a flaming fireball spilling red haired banshees onto the ground later...
His turn he sends an assault marine squad and a sanguinary priest at them, shoots, does nothing, then charges. I kill them all before he can strike (I think he'll have learned from this). My turn next, move, fleet, assault a tactical squad, kill all but 1 who somehow survives. And that's where it ended for the Banshees. They needed to kill em all to consolidate backwards. Why? Death Company was staring right at them and was just in charge range. As they were stuck in combat, no initiative 10 or counter attack, killed 3 Death Company with the Exarch before the Banshees were annihilated by them, a captain and a ...whatever those guys with Crozius are.
Striking Scorpions got all his ire shooting wise due to the 40minute game we played where 6 of them killed most of his stuff. This left an Exarch with a powerclaw not doing much. He did kill a tactical squad by himself before being shot though, so it's all good.
Pathfinders did nothing. Fled. Rallied. Got shot dead by a rhino (really).
-
Sounds like you did well with the banshees. I can't work it out if you played the game or someone else did MrDwhitey from your comments!
I will assume you used the eldar. What did you give the Exarch? Executioner? Did you have guide or doom assisting them?
I find mine always die too easily and struggle to kill t4 things. I prefer scorpions for that reason :)
-
The Exarch was armed with Mirror Blades (executioner is awesome, but I like an extra attack with doom). The assault marines were not doomed. I was lucky with the wound rolls.
The tacticals were doomed, I was unlucky with the wound rolls. :happy:
Guide is only for shooting I thought. My Farseers had Doom and Fortune.
-
Pathfinders suck in my opinion. I don't play Eldar, but I never worry about those Pathfinders when playing against them and so far they have yet to prove me wrong. It's one of those "oh, I'll kill them when I get around to it" units.
-
Pathfinders suck in my opinion. I don't play Eldar, but I never worry about those Pathfinders when playing against them and so far they have yet to prove me wrong. It's one of those "oh, I'll kill them when I get around to it" units.
Yeah, they were a big afterthought as I needed to fill up on points to reach 1750. Thankfully it's 1500 next week, but ironically, against Plague Marines.
My old Plague Marines. :ph34r:
-
The Exarch was armed with Mirror Blades (executioner is awesome, but I like an extra attack with doom). The assault marines were not doomed. I was lucky with the wound rolls.
The tacticals were doomed, I was unlucky with the wound rolls. :happy:
Guide is only for shooting I thought. My Farseers had Doom and Fortune.
I am fairly certain you can use Guide for combat attacks. I may be wrong though. I usually use Guide and Fortune on my single Farseer.
-
Unless you roll your close combat attacks in the shooting phase.. I'm not so sure.
-
It appears I was talking utter rubbish about guide! That is probably why I never use banshees, and use scorpions instead though, as I don't take doom!
-
whitey, can you post you list?
I quite fancy an eldar army...
-
My list was a hideous mish mash of what I had available.
It went something like:
3 Wraith Lords with Bright Lances and Missile Launchers.
2 Guardian squads of 10, Missile Launchers, Warlock with singing spear, spiritseer and Embolden (reroll all leadership tests).
2 Farseers, both with doom and fortune, one had the runes that made the other guy roll 3 dice for psychic tests.
10 Howling Banshees with counter charge and warshout exarch with mirrorswords. They rode in a superfast wave serpent.
10 Scorpions with infiltrate and move through cover exarch with powerfist.
7 Pathfinders.
-
I thought pathfinders were Tau.
Eldar have rangers.
I refuse to recognise that the names may have changed.
-
Weltenwanderer ...in German I think.
-
I should have known that space elves would turn out to be German.
-
You upgrade Rangers to Pathfinders.
All it does is make them slightly more expensive crap.
-
Is this a passable looking Predator? I had this tank model for free, so I decided to give it a shot.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/cannonofdoom/edaab302.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/cannonofdoom/3cb0eccd.jpg)
-
Is this a passable looking Predator?
Yes, it looks good!
-
Is this a passable looking Predator? I had this tank model for free, so I decided to give it a shot.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/cannonofdoom/superrr2.jpg)
-
This is why people don't like you.
-
Is this a passable looking Predator? I had this tank model for free, so I decided to give it a shot.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/cannonofdoom/superrr2.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/cannonofdoom/superrr2.jpg)
-
This is why people don't like you.
You are now in my sig twice. With the exact same sentence. Well done!
CannonofDoom, I can see this being an endless loop.
-
This is why people don't like you.
You are now in my sig twice. With the exact same sentence. Well done!
CannonofDoom, I can see this being an endless loop.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/cannonofdoom/what.jpg)
-
Is this a passable looking Predator? I had this tank model for free, so I decided to give it a shot.
Looks cool! Your conversion I suppose, what happened to the original chassis for the turret? Did you give it the paint, and if so what is it?
-
You are now in my sig twice. With the exact same sentence. Well done!
And I didn't even re-type it. I just copied it from your signature.
I love you really, of course!
-
sorry to be boring and always go on about price, but I just noticed its Ģ20 for 5 grey knights!
what the fuck!
-
Is this a passable looking Predator? I had this tank model for free, so I decided to give it a shot.
Looks cool! Your conversion I suppose, what happened to the original chassis for the turret? Did you give it the paint, and if so what is it?
Actually just a spare set of turret guts I got in a bitz grab bag.
-
I like it, only thing is there should be either some shielded cable covers going to the side turrets or bare cables. you can do this by gluing down some sprue wide side of the trapezoid down in an appropriate manner and a bit of green stuff for weld lines or hinges. Other than that it's better IMO than the original predator. Maybe you could model some battle damage or zemmerit on the armor plates, possibly extra armor. covering the wheels better.
-
I like it, only thing is there should be either some shielded cable covers going to the side turrets or bare cables. you can do this by gluing down some sprue wide side of the trapezoid down in an appropriate manner and a bit of green stuff for weld lines or hinges. Other than that it's better IMO than the original predator. Maybe you could model some battle damage or zemmerit on the armor plates, possibly extra armor. covering the wheels better.
Good idea! I'm going to go with Guitar wire out the side of the tank into the back of the Lascannons. And some plates down over the treads with plasticard.
-
sorry to be boring and always go on about price, but I just noticed its Ģ20 for 5 grey knights!
what the fuck!
Still cheaper than fantasy...
But yes! Its really a tad too much.
-
sorry to be boring and always go on about price, but I just noticed its Ģ20 for 5 grey knights!
Terminators were Ģ25 for 5 a couple of years ago - I bought some for my nephew ........... ( heavily discounted of course. He may be my nephew but I am not paying Ģ25 even for a close relative ..................... :engel: )
-
sorry to be boring and always go on about price, but I just noticed its Ģ20 for 5 grey knights!
what the fuck!
Which is why I bought all my stuff on ebay.
-
5 Terminators are still $50.00 in the States.
-
sorry to be boring and always go on about price, but I just noticed its Ģ20 for 5 grey knights!
what the fuck!
Still cheaper than fantasy...
But yes! Its really a tad too much.
"hmm, grey knights are more expensive points wise than any other army, so people might be able to get into the hobby for a bit cheaper than normal..."
"This cannot do! Lets make them twice the price of normal space marines"
I honestly don't know how the hobby can attract new customers at these prices.
-
*zzzzzzzzzzz*
Hmmm? Oh sorry. I nodded off when the price discussion started.
-
*zzzzzzzzzzz*
Hmmm? Oh sorry. I nodded off when the price discussion started.
I'm sorry! I just always get shocked/surprised when I look at GWs site.
-
Don't be sorry. Their prices are ridiculous.
-
Yes, it's expensive. Very much so. Everyone agrees on that. Can we please move on to fun stuff again?
:::cheers:::
-
Can we please move on to fun stuff again?
Like that boring argument about imperial guard a page or two back?
Still, at least it wasn't about high elf spearmen.
-
Can we please move on to fun stuff again?
Like that boring argument about imperial guard a page or two back?
Still, at least it wasn't about high elf spearmen.
MOAR OPINYUNS ON MY PREDERATORE!
-
I already said I liked it!
I don't think it should have external cables to the lasers though. Surely they would put the cables inside the armour!
Also, Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and retinue:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K/xenos2.jpg)
-
Yes, it's expensive. Very much so. Everyone agrees on that. Can we please move on to fun stuff again?
:::cheers:::
Buy from discount retailers and it doesn't "seem" so bad. Of course it is, but it is like when you buy petrol, saving 1p a litre at Ģ1.31 over Ģ1.32 seems a good deal, but in reality it isn't anything of the sort!
I have a suspicion that GW makes its models from petrol given the prices :-D
I like the predator :-D I would have posted earlier, but work has had me actually doing some work for my money this week.
-
Very nice Inquisitor! I like it.
We really ought to bring some 40K stuff as well as Fantasy to the next 'bash, I'd love to play other forum members beside Fandir!
-
The reason I'm upset about prices again is that my brother has been talking a lot about getitng into 40k. Which would be amazing! a game of warhammer everytime I go home. And he wanted Grey knights because he likes the fascist style fluff, and also not having to paint/buy loads of modelsto get started. Yet he's been put off by having to pay 40 quid for one squad.
Me and Rufus are playing a game in october, and a small game in september.
If I can transport 2 armies across, I'm up for playing 40k as well!
Those plasma servitors looks so much better painted up and with the inquisitor. Are you saying he pinched them from Tau and modified them? or had you not thought of it.
I also like the predator.
-
The predator is okayish! :P I dont really like it that much. I think its the sponsons, they need some work.
I like the Servitors! They have come out well!
What are the halflings supposed to be?
-
The reason I'm upset about prices again is that my brother has been talking a lot about getitng into 40k. Which would be amazing! a game of warhammer everytime I go home. And he wanted Grey knights because he likes the fascist style fluff, and also not having to paint/buy loads of modelsto get started. Yet he's been put off by having to pay 40 quid for one squad.
Tell him to do it in increments, which is the better approach anyway. Buy one squad, build it, paint it up. Repeat. That way the spending is spread out and not as noticeable, and it's more satisfying and not as daunting than having a gazillion boxes staring at you, screaming to get done (my usual approach...).
-
The reason I'm upset about prices again is that my brother has been talking a lot about getitng into 40k. Which would be amazing! a game of warhammer everytime I go home. And he wanted Grey knights because he likes the fascist style fluff, and also not having to paint/buy loads of modelsto get started. Yet he's been put off by having to pay 40 quid for one squad.
Ebay! Seriously.
I bought all my 40K stuff on ebay (well, apart from the things I was given by Dwhitey and Cannonofdoom!), and I got everything for half retail cost or better. 10 metal grey knights = 20 quid.
Those plasma servitors looks so much better painted up and with the inquisitor. Are you saying he pinched them from Tau and modified them? or had you not thought of it.
He's an Ordo Xenos inquisitor, so he is an expert on alien technology. Maybe he stole them, or maybe he just gets on well with the Tau!
I did consider giving him a chimera with xenotech upgrades, but he's just got a normal one for now.
I like the Servitors! They have come out well!
What are the halflings supposed to be?
Thanks! The hobbits are warrior acolytes with hotshot lasguns. I thought they fit the Xenos theme, even though they are technically humans.
Very nice Inquisitor! I like it.
We really ought to bring some 40K stuff as well as Fantasy to the next 'bash, I'd love to play other forum members beside Fandir!
Thanks!
And yes. I think I can fit a 40K army and a fantasy one in my army case, even though I haven't actually tried yet. My inquisition army is quite small.
-
The Tau Drone with a sword stuck to it makes me smile. Every time.
I'm thinking of buying into Space Wolves.
-
I'm thinking of buying into Space Wolves.
I could use another fix as well, army wise. Eldar would be good, if they got an update. I always liked those designs. If the new Necrons are more interesting than the current ones I might consider them.
Oh well. If the rumors pan out and my beloved Chaos Marines finally get redone early next year I'll have something new to obsess over anyway.
-
Want to buy a painted Eldar force? :engel:
-
Nah, I want to get my own mediocre painting done, painfully, over a period of years.
-
But space wolves are lame.
Chaos marines are uuuuuuuuuuuuugly.
-
Shut up, you! They'e beautiful. In their own way. Somehow.
Superficial snob.
-
But space wolves are lame.
Chaos marines are uuuuuuuuuuuuugly.
You are invalid.
-
Chaos marines are all pathetic emos. :closed-eyes:
I too approve of the predator. Gives me some ideas about my second Exorcist.
-
Chaos marines are all pathetic emos. :closed-eyes:
Not nearly as much as medieval Swedish farmers!
-
Chaos marines are all pathetic emos. :closed-eyes:
Not nearly as much as medieval Swedish farmers!
Who often cut themselves not only due to being emo, but also complete and utter ineptness in handling any kind of implement, but especially weapons.
-
MOAR OPINYUNS ON MY PREDERATORE!
It's great! You are good at conversions (I remember your engineer with the pigeon...).
I'm not overly fond of the GW IG tank models. Which is good, since it keeps me from starting an IG army.
I think a Merkava-miniature would make a good 40k tank, since their super-flat turret looks rather futuristic.
Chaos marines are all pathetic emos. :closed-eyes:
Not nearly as much as medieval Swedish farmers!
Is this the W-E equivalent of a "yo momma" fight?
-
It's pretty much a 5 pound spiked titanium gauntlet to the groin challenge.
:-D
-
I think a Merkava-miniature would make a good 40k tank, since their super-flat turret looks rather futuristic.
Surely that's a reason why it wouldn't?
-
If I wanted an old-fashioned piece of junk as a tank I would use a [xx].
xx: Insert whatever WWII-tank you happen to dislike.
-
Dwhitey put up some pictures of those Eldar, I might afford them in 2 years.
-
I like it, only thing is there should be either some shielded cable covers going to the side turrets or bare cables. you can do this by gluing down some sprue wide side of the trapezoid down in an appropriate manner and a bit of green stuff for weld lines or hinges. Other than that it's better IMO than the original predator. Maybe you could model some battle damage or zemmerit on the armor plates, possibly extra armor. covering the wheels better.
Good idea! I'm going to go with Guitar wire out the side of the tank into the back of the Lascannons. And some plates down over the treads with plasticard.
Not sure modeling cabling outside the tank makes sense. Why wouldn't they just run the cables through the tank lessening the likelihood they'd be damaged by enemy fire or cut by some crazy ork or tyranid assaulting it.
Extra armor for the wheels might be a good idea though.
-
I found quite big Tau and Ultra marine armies on ebay, about to finish, both for around Ģ50.
(a rather large space wolf army from same seller went for 77)
So tempted!
45 firewarriors, one devilfish, 11 battlesuits!! including 6 on sprue, 6 stealth suits, 20 combat drones. for 64 quid including P and P.
3 chaplains, 2 librarians, 7 terminators, 15 assault marines (5 without jetpacks), 25 tactical marines, 3 assault bikes and a dreadnought for Ģ50 including P and P
Bargain.
-
Also, Ordo Xenos Inquisitor and retinue:
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f207/sparky_sparkfire/40K/xenos2.jpg)
I like this unit! :icon_biggrin: :::cheers:::
-
The reason I'm upset about prices again is that my brother has been talking a lot about getitng into 40k. Which would be amazing! a game of warhammer everytime I go home. And he wanted Grey knights because he likes the fascist style fluff, and also not having to paint/buy loads of modelsto get started. Yet he's been put off by having to pay 40 quid for one squad.
What about buying a starter set? Sure its orks and space marines, but you do get a rule book, and its a deal compared to many of their other prices.
-
Dwhitey put up some pictures of those Eldar, I might afford them in 2 years.
They're actually really badly painted compared to my chaos space marines. They're kinda a stop gap 40k army I got on the cheap to play since 40k has had a massive resurgance here (until I get Spess Wulves).
I'm only painting them to a minimum standard because I dislike playing unpainted.
-
yayy to space wolves!!! I've very nearly got my first 2500 point force completely painted and the spare turret mount so I can have the parts for two razorbacks instead of just one.
then I'll play a few games to decide on whether on not I'll be buying those groovy thunderwolf resin casts online to build a squad around that theme.
About the Predator conversion on the sponson hanger just glue bits of sprue to thicken it up as though cables are passing through an armored shroud then have the guitar string come from the sponson hanger to the appropriate place on the backs of the lasers and themed armor on the outside surfaces of the laser.
gad I'm such a model nerd.
-
I am thinking of putting together a chaos space marine army. Should I post my list here or make a new thread? :|
-
Go ahead and post it here man!
-
I found quite big Tau and Ultra marine armies on ebay, about to finish, both for around Ģ50.
(a rather large space wolf army from same seller went for 77)
So tempted!
45 firewarriors, one devilfish, 11 battlesuits!! including 6 on sprue, 6 stealth suits, 20 combat drones. for 64 quid including P and P.
3 chaplains, 2 librarians, 7 terminators, 15 assault marines (5 without jetpacks), 25 tactical marines, 3 assault bikes and a dreadnought for Ģ50 including P and P
Bargain.
Get the Tau!
Ultramarines are not cool.
-
Just made a Eldar 1500 list using this Battlescribe thing.
I love it already, so easy to use and produces a nice list, with stats of the units and weapons used.
-
Just made a Eldar 1500 list using this Battlescribe thing.
I love it already, so easy to use and produces a nice list, with stats of the units and weapons used.
is it free?
Also I built a Thousand Sons army list for 2000pt games. I love the space wolves and read the first 4 of the space wolf books and also found a love for their bitter rival the thousand sons. So I put a list together to give them some speed and firepower since their rubric armies are slow.
HQ
Chaos Sorcerer 180 pts
-Doom Bolt
-Bolt of Change
-Plasma Pistol
-Mark of Tzeentch
Troop
9 1k Sons 327pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Bolt of Change
Rhino
9 1k Sons 327pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Bolt of Change
Rhino
8 1k Sons 327pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Bolt of Change
Rhino
Fast Attack
10 raptors 250pts
-Mark of Tzeentch
-1 Melta Gun
Heavy
Predator 180 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons
-Extra Armor
Predator 180 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons
-Extra Armor
Land Raider 235
-Extra armor
total 1983pts.
the HQ will join the 9 man squad in the rhino. not sure what I could spend the last 17 pts on though.
-
Well... it's fluffy. if that's the sole goal, it's fine.
But you're seriously going to get your ass handed to you by any halfway competitive list.
-
Yes Feanor, it's free.
-
I think I just bought a dreadnought on ebay. It has an assault cannon.
-
Well... it's fluffy. if that's the sole goal, it's fine.
But you're seriously going to get your ass handed to you by any halfway competitive list.
more input would be nice. :happy: I havnt played a game since 3rd edition so I wouldnt be surprised if thats the case but I'd like to know how.
Yes Feanor, it's free.
link please?
-
more input would be nice. :happy: I havnt played a game since 3rd edition so I wouldnt be surprised if thats the case but I'd like to know how.
Hm... where to start? First of all, the bolt of change has shit synergy with the Sons. It's a very expensive AT shot, while the Sons are dedicated anti infantry. You shoot at either target type, the other component won't do much. Doombolt is a better choice for a sons sorcerer.
What's the Landraider there for? You don't actually have anything that can fight at all... besides, extra armor: 15 points. Demonic posession: 20 points. The latter is better by leaps and bounds if you want something in that direction.
Plasma pistol on the sorcerer? Why? You just spent oodles of points on two shooting spells.
10 Raptors with one special weapon and no equipment for the champ won't do much.
Not a fan of the preddies, but oh well. If you have the models it's fine I guess.
Tzeentch based lists on base nine units are very hard to pull off well, since those are too large for MSU play and yet not large enough to get that sweet, sweet second special weapon in a regular CSM squad.
The whole structure of the list is fluffy, but ineffective.
-
I found quite big Tau and Ultra marine armies on ebay, about to finish, both for around Ģ50.
(a rather large space wolf army from same seller went for 77)
So tempted!
45 firewarriors, one devilfish, 11 battlesuits!! including 6 on sprue, 6 stealth suits, 20 combat drones. for 64 quid including P and P.
3 chaplains, 2 librarians, 7 terminators, 15 assault marines (5 without jetpacks), 25 tactical marines, 3 assault bikes and a dreadnought for Ģ50 including P and P
Bargain.
Get the Tau!
Ultramarines are not cool.
Those were the final prices, they finished tonight. I actually have loads of Tau, but they have been painted three times... But I said to my bro I would strip them and give them to him as his birthday pressle. Hope it's easier than the Chimeras!
But, I think Tau are really shit.
GP, I already have a rulebook, and orks and spaz mareens are no goes.
He wants grey knights or Tau.
-
You didn't buy them then. Shame.
Tau are supposed to be due a new army book before too long, I think. The current one is old.
-
I suppose I am too used to playing against a shooty mechenized blood angel army list that I went over board with the anti vehicles. I could see how if I threw this list up in a tourney and faces a nid army I'd be dead in no time. all 3 heavys were for anti tank purposes which is why I am so lascannon heavy with them. I do see your point on my sorcerers and will start messing with the list again. 8-) Any good chaos choices for dealing with say a swarm or ork choppas or bayonet happy guardsmen? i.e. swarms.
I actually like the Tau and find them great fun to play.
-
Why haven't you included Ahriman? It doesnt get more thousand sons than him!
-
I've never really been a fan of special characters. I think the only special character I would ever take is that Ork commander that makes warbikes a troop choice.
-
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Battlescribe
It's still in Beta, but the Eldar list I made seems fine.
And I'm tempted to do the ultra cheese Spacewolf Razorback Spam. :engel:
-
I'm going to kick Cortez out of my 1500 point list. I'll have two inquisitors with retinues, a vindicare, two strike squads, and the dreadnought I just ebayed.
It's going to be way more awesome. Down with special characters!
-
I'm going to kick Cortez out of my 1500 point list. I'll have two inquisitors with retinues, a vindicare, two strike squads, and the dreadnought I just ebayed.
It's going to be way more awesome. Down with special characters!
Down with rufus!
I hope your "Dreadnought with assault cannon" is actually a marine with an arm ripped off and an assault cannon stuck to it!
-
It had a picture, so there!
I expect I'll change my list about ten million times before I ever actually play a game anyway.
-
Well this Battlescribe has a few errors/pitfalls in it's army list making, but nothing at all major. All you need to do is have the codex with you whilst you make it. And yes, I can already hear the "but if you need the book why bother?" cries now. I'll let you work it out.
Edit: seems a lot of the issues with item selections I had are actually pointed out at the very bottom of the screen, so ok then.
-
I was thinking about those groovy special dreadnoughts that forge world has just put out, you know the anime looking ones. Of all the potential dreads out there in the rules universe Bjorn Fellhand is the only one that could plausibly use that model since he is actually 10,000 years old having been alive and fought side by side with primarch Leman Russ. Or do other chapters actually have dreads with this super venerability characteristic?
-
Those were the final prices, they finished tonight. I actually have loads of Tau, but they have been painted three times... But I said to my bro I would strip them and give them to him as his birthday pressle. Hope it's easier than the Chimeras!
But, I think Tau are really shit.
Is that kinda like how Mainers say, "wicked good"?
GP, I already have a rulebook, and orks and spaz mareens are no goes.
He wants grey knights or Tau.
I figured as much, but then he'd have a rule book, otherwise Rufus is correct, again, ebay.
-
I suppose I am too used to playing against a shooty mechenized blood angel army list that I went over board with the anti vehicles. I could see how if I threw this list up in a tourney and faces a nid army I'd be dead in no time. all 3 heavys were for anti tank purposes which is why I am so lascannon heavy with them. I do see your point on my sorcerers and will start messing with the list again. 8-) Any good chaos choices for dealing with say a swarm or ork choppas or bayonet happy guardsmen? i.e. swarms.
You didn't go overboard with the AT, quite the opposite. Pretty much everything besides the Preddies and that one lonely melta is a (short ranged) Psychic power, and relying on those can be tricky at best.
A Landraider is not an AT choice. A Landraider is an assault vehicle, first and foremost. As a pure shooting platform it is way too expensive!
Consider a unit of Chaos Terminators to ride in your Raider, perhaps led by the Sorcerer in Terminator armor. With MoT they get 2+/4++, which is quite nice. Give one a heavy flamer, and the others combimeltas. One gets a chainfist to deal with walkers and vehicles, done. For the Sorcerer, I'd either keep it cheap with just doombolt, MoT and the armor, or go for an effective combination with Warptime and Wind of Chaos. Template that wounds on a 4+ rerollable with no AS is pretty nice. That'll make a decent, fun and fluffy assault unit that can deal with many threats.
Or hey, forget the Raider and take 8 Terrminators plus the Sorcerer amd deepstrike. If you take icons/personal icons on your other units you'll be able to come in with no scatter. Never tested either, but it should work.
Raptors I would either keep cheap or give some punch. Cheap: 5 dudes with 2 flamers or meltas. Mobile and annoying. Expensive with punch: How about 8 with a Wolverine champ, 2 meltas/flamers led by a Chaos Lord with MoT, Disc and a Demon weapon? Wicked anti-infantry unit if it doesn't get shot to hell.
As for AT, most people will tell you to use Obliterators for HS. Which is certainly not bad advice, but there are other viable choices. Havocs in a Rhino with 4 meltas? Havocs with missile launchers and a Rhino that can act as a LOS "curtain"? Defilers aren't half bad either (not neccessarily at AT, but as a general purpose unit).
Hope there are some ideas for you in there.
-
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-reROMyrP7JM/TlKWL7j0bsI/AAAAAAAAADI/sTvfd8RkQmg/s1600/615px-Necron_bloodangel_brofist.jpg)
-
Heres a retry on the list.
HQ
Chaos Sorceror 170 pts
-Wind of Change
-Doombolt
-Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Lord 165pts
-Jump Pack
-Mark of Tzeentch
-Demon Weapon
Elite
5 Chaos Termies 235
-pair of lightning claws
-2 combi-melta
-1 chainfist
-Champ with heavy flamer
- Mark of Tzeentch
Troops
9 1k Sons 312pts
1 Aspiring Sorceror
- Doombolt
Rhino
8 1k Sons 289pts
1 Aspiring Sorceror
- Doombolt
Rhino
Fast
9 raptors 280pts
-Mark of Tzeentch
-2 Melta Gun
-Champion with pair of lightning claws
Heavy
Predator 180 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons
-Extra Armor
Predator 180 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons
-Extra Armor
Defiler 170pts
-twin Lascannons
-Twin Flamers
total 1981pts.
I know Aldaris you do not like predators but I actually fancy them. Good to have some armor in the game. I like having BS 4 instead of 3 so I kept the extra armor rather than picking up the demon possession. If I was to play this list the termies would Deep strike and the Lord would hang in with the 8 raptors +Champ. Still trying to get the list as a 1k Sons army so marks of Tzeentch everywhere. I like the versatility I have now. I have some fast hard jump troops. Some armor to spread chaos on the battlefield, deep striking termies to ruin the back of the enemies lines, and troops racing in rhinos with psychers and special bolter ammo.
-
Making a competitive chaos list is easy! Unfortunately that is because an overwhelming amount of their choices are just not very effective or over priced.
Daemon prince, Mark of Nurgle, Wings and Warptime. You want one. You can swap for Mark of Tzeench if you want to remain fluffy, but I prefer +1T over +1invun but that is users choice.
Another HQ is pretty much your choice if you bother or not. If you don't take a daemon weapon, dont waste points on the lord, the Sorcerer is a better option, especially if going tzeench.
For troops, bog standard marines with 2 specials, thousand sons and beserkers are all good choices. Plague marines are a top choice though due to being mighty hard to shift if in cover. Thousand sons make better objective assaulting troops due to their invunerable save, but are fairly poor in hand to hand compared to the rest of the army which have knifes and bolt pistols. Depending on cover on table, thousand sons can be awesome or only slightly better marines.
Fast attack. I dont generally think anything in this section is particularly good as you pay a premium over the regular marines versions. Raptors if you have a flying HQ are okay, bikes if he is on a bike. Otherwise I personally stay clear.
Elites. Terminators. Cheap, lots of options, very good choice. Dreadnaughts are poor and have a tendancy in my army to shoot my own units, possessed are too random for my tastes, although the models are good. Chosen are expensive, more so than terminators if you give them a power weapon :eusa_wall:
Heavy support. You want Obliterators. Best unit in the book by a country mile. Heavy weapons are hard to get on decent platforms in this book, virtually only in heavy support. You don't want a heavy weapon on your chaos marines as you can't split squads. If you don't own Obliterators, Havocs can do a passable job. Predators are good value too, as are in my experience vindicators. If the defiler wasnt so massive, it would be a good buy as well. Land Raider, avoid like the plague, chaos only get the terrible normal version, but without an extra multimelta, troop capacity or POTMS.
Concerning Tzeench sorcerers. Doombolt is worse than Bolt in my experience. You already have sorcerous ammunition on your bolt pistol, you would be better with either Warptime or Bolt for some, admittedly expensive, anti tank just in case!
Note, I actually own most of the units I have described as poor. I have 3 forge world dreadnaughts, a landraider, 10 possessed, 6 bikes and many others. Its bitter experience that has led me to these conclusions.
Looking at your list Feanor, I have some advice.
If you can, put a powerfist on your raptor champion. It will be more effective than your lightning claws and allows you to assault tanks and dreadnaughts. Doesnt suffer from wound allocation issues either. The defiler, I would give a havoc launcher over the heavy flamers. If you actually place a template next to its guns, you will see you get about 2 inches of flamer. Seriously not worth it! I think you are overestimating how good Doombolt is by having so many of them, but play and see how you find it,
Most of the rest of the list looks fine to me though.
-
I normally play 1850 with chaos. My list usually looks something vaguely like this from memory.
Daemon prince of Nurgle. Wings, Warptime
10 Chaos marines, 2 meltas, champion powerfist, Rhino
10 Chaos marines, lascannon, plasma gun, Rhino
5 Plaguemarines 2 plasmaguns, Rhino
10 Khorne Bezerkers, Champion, powerfist, Rhino
5 Raptors, Champion, Powerfist, accompany Daemon Prince, although they cant join him.
3 or 5 terminators, 2x meltacombi, 1 chainfist
2 Obliterators
1 Vindicator
I think that is more or less what I use... I may be missing some units though!
-
Is it worth switching the storm bolter for a heavy flamer on a dreadnought's power fist? And if so, it it worth further upgrading it to an incinerator (for S6)?
+10 or +15 points.
Assuming the other arm is a psycannon, so Mr. Robot is going to get up close to things.
-
Generally I would give a dreadnaught a heavy flamer instead of a storm bolter every day of the week unless it is going to stay back.
Depending who you play against, the incinerator is probably worth it, although if you are playing guard or eldar don't bother :) Everyone else has enough high toughness stuff to justify s6 :-D
-
Great, that's what I thought!
Having an incinerator is more flufftastic, definitely.
Also, it turns out the powerfist is also a force weapon, which might even matter sometimes!
-
Some tweaks I'd propose Feanor: The Lord should have a Disc rather than a jump pack - the extra attack is nice.
Lascannons on the Defiler are a waste - you can shoot either them or the Battlecannon, but not both. Good loadout: BC, heavy flamer, extra DCCW. Done. No extra cost, and effective.
I concur about the PF being better on the Raptor champ, but the model has lightning claws, so I guess that's up to you. Drop one, you'll have 8 plus the lord, equals nine. Tadaa!
Give the other terminators Combimeltas as well. 4 are better than two!
Consider using only one HQ and investing in another troops choice. 2 is not enough in 5th edition.
Drop the extra armor on the preddies - you don't want to move them anyway so you can shoot everything, and all extra armor does is downgrade stunned to shaken. Both amount to "I won't shoot this turn", so don't bother.
-
Well this Battlescribe has a few errors/pitfalls in it's army list making, but nothing at all major. All you need to do is have the codex with you whilst you make it. And yes, I can already hear the "but if you need the book why bother?" cries now. I'll let you work it out.
Edit: seems a lot of the issues with item selections I had are actually pointed out at the very bottom of the screen, so ok then.
I use Battlescribe. Their data files are not terribly difficult to edit and fix yourself. I had to do it for Beastmen and Empire.
-
Daemonic possession is much better than extra armour. Taking a hit to bs3 is bad though, so it balances out. However on vindicators or land raiders it is actually a good upgrade.
I like my defiler with twin autocannon and a havoc launcher. Becomes a jack of all trades unit then, with moderate anti tank and anti infantry.
Chaos lords can take wings instead of jump packs. If you do this, you can put him in a rhino :-D I don't think the advantage of a disk is worth losing the extra bodies to protect you from shooting that you get having wings/jump pack.
-
Does anyone else think lascannons are consistently overcosted on almost everything except the weirdly underpriced vendetta gunship?
For example: twin psybolt autocannon vs twin lascannon on a dreadnought. 15 points more for the lascannon!
I get the impression that the rules think the lascannon is a lot better than it actually is.
-
Does anyone else think lascannons are consistently overcosted on almost everything except the weirdly underpriced vendetta gunship?
For example: twin psybolt autocannon vs twin lascannon on a dreadnought. 15 points more for the lascannon!
I get the impression that the rules think the lascannon is a lot better than it actually is.
Way cheaper on Dev squads in Blood Angel Codex than regular Space Marine Codex too.
-
does anyone play Tau/have hints on army comp?
-
Lascannons are over priced, especially compared to the far superior melta weapons. I agree some of the designers at GW overestimate just how useful lascannons are. I think this is probably something to do with the lascannon trading on its name from earlier editions where it really was a premier anti tank gun.
Usually devestator units pay an inflated cost on lascannons as well, making them even less useful. I think realistically a lascannon should be the same price as a multimelta.
-
Chaos lords can take wings instead of jump packs. If you do this, you can put him in a rhino :-D I don't think the advantage of a disk is worth losing the extra bodies to protect you from shooting that you get having wings/jump pack.
The Disc makes you jump infantry. So no disadvantage!
-
There also must be a powerful autocannon lobby.
:happy:
I think the vendetta is underpriced not only weaponwise but....well with everything. (except real world money I guess....I wonder if anyone would complain if you just use Hind helicopter Models:
http://www.haertle.de/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/1/trumpeter-05103-mi-24-hind-61_p1.jpg (http://www.haertle.de/out/1/html/0/dyn_images/1/trumpeter-05103-mi-24-hind-61_p1.jpg)
-
I would.
:-D
And yes, the Vendetta is a bit cheap for what it does. Especially if you compare it to similar skimmers like the Stormraven.
-
130 points for a transport with armour 12 12 10, sort of all the upgrades you can have additional armour, smoke grenades 3 synch lasercannons, fast.
I should have gone for that wayland deal when the pound was weak 3 for the price of two....well one in Germany. Aww the sweet memories of old days when I was still rich.
:biggriin:
-
I propably wouldn't have bought two If I had to buy them myself - but as a christmas gift they were fine!
:happy:
-
Meeeeeeerrry christmas.....one also has to consider that you can take a sip from your mug of coffee while humming Wagners "Ritt der Walküren" and praising the qualities of Napalm everytime you field some of them. That alone should be worth 50 points.
Well the only pitty is that the Vendetta is not the Valkyrie I would have preferred it the other way around. Has anyone ever fielded Valkyries? Are the Rockets of one shot any good?
-
I give my Vendetta a pair of heavy bolters. Is this normal? I think it is possibly slightly too cheap, but a heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons using orders can also twin link theirs, and they are cheaper, not a gigantic target and can get cover saves.
I see a lot of lists with Valkyries with rocket pods and a multilaser, as the rockets are s4 and therefore "defensive" weapons. Can slap some large bolter strength templates on people. Im not convinced personally.
Rockets of 1 shot on a bs3 guardsman. I think not. :-D Very underwhelming and less useful than the Vendetta twin lascannon IMO
-
Chaos lords can take wings instead of jump packs. If you do this, you can put him in a rhino :-D I don't think the advantage of a disk is worth losing the extra bodies to protect you from shooting that you get having wings/jump pack.
The Disc makes you jump infantry. So no disadvantage!
Wings are still better as you can use transports :-D
-
Wings are still better as you can use transports :-D
If you're going to use a transport, why bother buying wings?
The Disc is only good if you join a squad of Raptors. Not an optimal choice, but I used to play that quite a lot. And it's a beastly unit against infantry! Up to 12 PW attacks from the Lord alone (4 base+charge+disc+D6 from the demon weapon), and D6 S4 AP3 shots, 2 flamer templates and a smattering of bolt pistols before the dance begins. Initiative is the weak point of this unit, but as long as you keep that in mind and chose your targets wisely it's awesome (hey... MoS might be a good choice for those dudes... hm).
-
... but a heavy weapons squad with 3 lascannons using orders can also twin link theirs, and they are cheaper, not a gigantic target and can get cover saves.
And lack transport capacity, an AV, speed, tactical flexibility and oh yeah, they die like bitches to anything S6 and up.
Inicidentally, I'll have a game with my CSM tonight - propably against a Vulcan Salamanders list or Wolves.
-
Well you can assault directly out of a land raider with wings. I am not saying it is a brilliant plan, but is something you can do!
Aldaris, you are obviously correct, but I was just putting it out there :-D The Vendetta is one of the best options in the codex. It is probably around 20 points under costed though. Anything more, and I don't think it would be good value.
I find daemon weapons are quite lethal, although many players on the internet say they are poor. In my experience they turn a chaos lord into a killing machine, without one he is a mediocre choice at best. Lords of Khorne are quite capable of scaring units away from objectives without even charging if armed with a daemon weapon.
Mark of Slaanesh is rarely used around me, although it makes a good choice if you are taking lightning claw terminators. Also on the Lash sorcerer, but he is less useful now everyone hides in transports!
-
I like Demon weapons too, it's the randomness that makes people say they aren't good. Fuck randomness. Beneficial 83% of the time is good enough for me. And with a MoT Lord, you also have a sweet 4++ for those times where it doesn't work so well.
As mentioned above, game tonight. Nice coincidence, haven't played my CSM a while.
-
Aldaris, do you happen to know what the odds are you will club yourself with a Khorne Daemon weapon? Around 1/3? Either dice rolling a 1, independently of each other is around that, although double 1 is only 1 hit.
Still, the posibility exists of you rocking into combat with a mighty 18 attacks from your lord on foot! [lord(4), MoK(1), charging(1), daemon weapon (12) :-D]
A lot of people claim a single lightning claw is better than a daemon weapon. A 1 in 6 chance for something bad is acceptable to me [as a skaven player that is more than fine]
Chaos dreadnaughts on the other hand are a massive liability. My three have the following load outs. Can you guess which one I sometimes use?
A. Pair of DCCWs, heavy flamer, combi bolter
B. Plasma cannon, DCCW, combi bolter
C. Twin lascannon, missile launcher
:-D
-
Aldaris, do you happen to know what the odds are you will club yourself with a Khorne Daemon weapon? Around 1/3?
I think so, yes. Which is why I would give the Khorne one a pass. If I want a fighty Khorne Lord I'll take Kharn.
Chaos dreadnaughts on the other hand are a massive liability. My three have the following load outs. Can you guess which one I sometimes use?
A. Pair of DCCWs, heavy flamer, combi bolter
B. Plasma cannon, DCCW, combi bolter
C. Twin lascannon, missile launcher
:-D
A I guess - although I sometimes take one with plasma Cannon, heavy flamer and extra armor. I run him on the Landraider flank and it's fine. Not a very good choice, but I do have a nicely painted model and sometimes I want to give him some fighty time!
-
You are correct Aldaris the two combat arm one is my preferred option currently. I sometimes use my plasma one for the same role, although fielding a 200+ point tank just to stop the plasma wasting my own men doesn't seem especially good value.
I have been experimenting with taking chaos spawn to use in a similar role to the land raider, as a plasma cannon cant kill it in one shot. So far it worked in the first game, then in the second my opponent knew why I was using it, and killed the spawn. The dreadnought then took it on itself to shoot at my own men just for a change.
But we do save 5 whole points over a loyalist dread and we get an extra attack as well as insanity! I do love my forge world dreadnaughts though, two sonic ones, and a word bearers one. It is just a shame their rules make them so difficult to use.
How do you play their shooting rampage? By the rules in the book, eg it turns round and shoots your own men because they are nearer, or by shooting whoever is nearest in their line of sight?
-
You are correct Aldaris the two combat arm one is my preferred option currently. I sometimes use my plasma one for the same role, although fielding a 200+ point tank just to stop the plasma wasting my own men doesn't seem especially good value.
Oh, that's not the purpose of the Raider in my list, that would indeed be stupid. Berzerker delivery is what he's for, and he does it very well! Has been a staple in my CSM armies forever and almost never fails to apply a good asskickin'.
:-D
I have been experimenting with taking chaos spawn to use in a similar role to the land raider, as a plasma cannon cant kill it in one shot. So far it worked in the first game, then in the second my opponent knew why I was using it, and killed the spawn. The dreadnought then took it on itself to shoot at my own men just for a change.
Taking a unit that basically sucks and is propped up by one that sucks even more isn't a good idea. If I didn't use the Raider anyway I'd propably just take the odd friendly fire shot like a man.
How do you play their shooting rampage? By the rules in the book, eg it turns round and shoots your own men because they are nearer, or by shooting whoever is nearest in their line of sight?
Nearest unit, period. Not nearest in LOS.
-
If it was genuinely berserk though, it would be nearest in LOS, rather than the more methodical method currently implemented in the rules. That said I also play the nearest model rule, even if it does break it!
If I do field a land raider I use it for berserker delivery as well. Powerfist on the champion is a must :-D
I will attempt to explain the spawn inclusion. It is fairly poor logic really, but it made sense at the time. Basically if I have to put something near it, I wanted something sufficiently cheap and expendable that wouldn't die in 1 hit. A spawn is a much better option as fodder than a marine squad.
I have had some interesting battles using all three of my dreads against my friends marine army where he has two iron clads and a venerable. Its like playing battletech again :-D
I was so tempted by the blood angels dex, the opportunity to take loads of dreadnaughts really appeals to me. I love mechs :-D
-
So do I. CSM have to get a Daishi in their next dex!
-
Id settle for them fixing fire frenzy but I suspect this will only happen if the current metal 2nd edition model is replaced with an all singing all dancing plastic kit. Much like new plastic chaos terminators meant really good rules in the current 4th ed book.
Haven't loyalists had five plastic dreadnaught kits already? Regular dread, ironclad and venerable are all plastic correct? As is the black reach and blood angel ones?
Everyone else gets plastic walker/mech models apart from chaos.
BTW I used to use a Warhammer when I played battle tech in my gaming group.
-
OII! Stop complaining you shoddy heretic! The pentinent engine still comes in heretical crushing metal too!
-
They still exist? I wasn't aware they did.
-
does anyone play Tau/have hints on army comp?
HQ
The Ethereal (or Aun as I always put it) is pretty much a waste. Fluffy and cool models to convert but overall usually a waste even with a bodyguard squad. I have no love for special characters. Many like the Shas'el because its cheaper than the shas'O but I like that the Shas'O has slightly better stats. there are tons of load outs to try on your basttlesuits. I try to make the squad versatile. I never get bodyguards with my commander, I usually just stick them in a regular battlesuit squad. You get the same effect for a slightly lower price, plus the squad is now 4 battle suits strong instead of 3. Do not over load on gun drones in this squad as if you have more drones than battlesuits you will have to use your drones armor save when you get shot at.
Elite
yeah stealth squads with burst cannons are friggin awesome! A 6 man squad of these in my experience have turned an ork boyz squad into mush in one turn. I used to play against Blood angels alot and they could eradicate the 5 man termie squads I would encounter. Just so many powerful shots!
Troops
Kroot are awesome in large numbers. i used to max them out 20 kroot including shaper plus some kroot hounds just to bolster them up. Great for screening your fire warriors and total monsters in close combat! Fire warriors are pretty damn good with the rifles. There are really no reason to give them carbines because they can now rapid fire after moving. I suppose you could give one to your Shas'ui to pin down enemies to prevent counter charges next turn. Many like to put them in devil rays for protection and to speed them where you want them.
Fast Attack
In my personal opinion Stingwings are pretty useless too. Sure their weapons can punch through marine army like no other and they have T 4, but honestly they have crap range with that weapon that the next turn you'll end up in CC on your opponents turn after you fire at a squad. You have imperial guard flak armor on them so once the marines do get in close combat chances are you wont last. The only thing in your favor in CC is that T4. Gun drones are nice if you have a few points left over. You can use them to screen or jump around and harass. I never used a piranha and rarely see other commanders use them. If I were to use them I would give them fusion blasters the better BS upgrade, drones, and speed them across the map as fast as possible to kill vehicles and heavy infantry. Points are probably better spent elsewhere though.
I have not personally done this but I am seeing people use sky rays over pathfinders. Its slightly cheaper for the same effect.
Heavy
Hammer heads and 2 man broadsides with the wargear that lets you split fire and have slow and purposeful is every T'au hunter cadre's bread and butter. The only real weapon to use on your hammer head is the rail gun. Period. you can switch from the anti-tank round to a subression anti-infantry round any time and what shooting army doesnt like throwing down those pie plates on an enemy army!? I never had a chance to use the drone sniper quads and have yet to see any Tau players use them but I imagine they would be good for eliminating high profile squads at a distance like termies, wraithlords, or Dev/havocs.
_________________________________________________________
Thanks for the input Crimson and Aldaris. i have a lot to think about. I see your point on doombolt as it is basically the same as what the aspiring sorcerers already have except they get 3 shots instead of the normal 1. I'll probably play with the list today or tonight.
edit: Are you sure about the PF over the lightning claws? I already have 2 melta guns.
-
Lightning claws have their advantages - extra attack and reroll to wound. A PF however allows you to handle Walkers and monsters in cc where your LCs wouldn't be so hot. Meltaguns are nice, but they don't help in cc.
You don't NEED a PF over the LC, but it's the more verstaile option.
-
okay I think I'll keep them then.
HQ
Chaos Sorcerer 170 pts
-Wind of Change
-Doombolt
-Mark of Tzeentch
Chaos Lord 165pts
-Jump Pack
-Mark of Tzeentch
-Demon Weapon
Elite
5 Chaos Termies 200pts
-3 combi-melta
-1 chainfist
-Champ pair of lightning claws
- Mark of Tzeentch
Troops
9 1k Sons 317pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Doombolt
-Personal Icon
Rhino
8 1k Sons 309pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Warptime
Personal Icon
Rhino
Fast Attack
12 raptors 345pts
-Mark of Tzeentch
-2 Melta Gun
-Champion with pair of lightning claws and melta bombs.
Heavy
Predator 165 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons
Predator 165 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons
Defiler 155pts
-extra defiler weapon
-Havoc Launcher
Total 1991pts.
I beefed up the raptors to 12 men (that includes the champ, lord would make it 13). scraped the extra armor, Kept the jump pack and forgone the disc. Sure it gives me an extra attack but I rather like the model with a jetpack. I figured that because I am deep striking my termies and they have power weapons might at well give the champ a pair of LC too. i gave the aspiring sorcerer in the same squad as the sorcerer lord warp time as the sorcerer lord already has doombolt and wind of change. Because I would deepstrike the termies I gave icons to my 1k son squads to help guide them if need be.
-
Try it and see how it goes.
-
I think it seems pretty versatile. Should be interesting. Now to accumulate the funds and go kick some ass.
oh and to you eldar players out there. whats your feelings on striking scorpions. I hear so many mixed feelings out there!
-
I think it seems pretty versatile. Should be interesting. Now to accumulate the funds and go kick some ass.
I would strongly advise to get in a few games with proxied models before you commit to buying anything, especially since models like raptors are quite expensive and you may well find that you still want to tweak the list.
-
Striking scorpions are my joint favourite hand to hand unit in the eldar, along with a seer council.
I know a lot of people prefer banshees, but if you are building an all comers list, scorps are better. More attacks, higher strength, better saves. Exarch has access to a powerfist and a relatively okay gun. [okay its s6 but it avoids wound allocation issues]. I wouldn't bother with chainsabres, although the biting blade thing can be good against tanks/dreads.
Edit: Because I am sad, I actually spent an hour rolling some dice for imaginary hand to hand combats, with 10 banshees w/exarch with executioner vs 10 scorpions w/exarch with scorpions claw against various different units. Against marines, provided the Exarch actually hits, you only do slightly worse with scorps than you do banshees, and against anything weaker, you do a lot better.
Scorps should be able to go toe to toe with assault marines and win. The problem IMO is that eldar aspects should be more on par with veterans than bog standard marines, but this is an issue across the board with eldar.
I still say take a powerfist over a lightning claw. If you play a few games, you will eventually get frustrated with the wound allocation rules if you take something striking at the same time as the rest of your unit. Obviously on terminators, this is not an issue as they all have power weapons. I actually have five lightning claw chaos terminators and a lightning claw terminator lord, so it isn't that I dislike the weapon, its just striking on initiative with power weapons in the current rule set is not optimal unless the whole unit has them.
I made my own raptors from assault marines and chaos marines :-D They are traitors from the "Crimson Ultra Fists" chapter [because in my gaming group we have Ultramarines and Crimson Fists, so my chaos raptors have a mix of their paint jobs.
-
Scorpions are easily the best general purpose assault unit Eldar have.
Because of Strength 4 and more attacks, they only do a little (literally a little) bit worst against marines than Banshees do (and Banshees will execute marines). The 3+ save helps them do this, as they'll survive longer in a protracted combat. Plus, at Initiative 5, they do all those masses of strikes first against marines. 10 Scorpions charging a marine unit is 36 Str4 attacks before the marines can strike, and 4 Str6 Ignoring Armour after. And this huge amount of attacks, at initiative 5, is what makes them so good against hordes, where Banshees will falter.
Banshees + Doom = Remove any Marine/Terminator unit in game.
Scorpions + Doom = Remove lots/all Marine unit/lots of the Terminator one.
An amusing note, you can have both the Scorpions Claw and the Biting Blade.
-
Surely death cult assassins are better than either!
-
Yes, DCA are pretty damn nifty. If I ever do start my own Inquisition/Grey Knights force, I'll try a mixed unit with mainly DCA, some Crusaders and 2-3 Arco Flagellants. Quite resilient with a ridiculous number of high S/power weapon attacks. Perhaps led by an inquisitor with Hammerhand...?
-
Arco-thingies are lame. Who needs them? They don't even have power weapons.
Death cult get 3 WS5 S4 I6 power attacks base.
Perhaps led by an inquisitor with Hammerhand...?
And rad grenades. +1S for you, -1T for them. Die!
-
An amusing note, you can have both the Scorpions Claw and the Biting Blade.
I thought all Exarch weapons were Or choices not And/Or? I will have to investigate. I am not entirely sure that it is worth the points though, even if you can, as the biting blade is generally worse than the scorpions claw against everything that has no armour value.
Have you ever used Dark reapers in the current book MrDWhitey? They seem too expensive for me to even try, although I am tempted by the Tempest launcher. Id rather have war walkers for my points as it stands though.
In my experience, Seer councils are the best unit for killing things in hand to hand, and with fortune, the most survivable :-D
Of course DCA are better than Eldar everything. Grey Knights are a Wardex! :-D
-
Read the Codex and you will see.
It's a "depends" thing some players do in fixed list settings. It makes them useful versus tanks with the whole Outflank thing.
I have used Dark Reapers. Answer is Cover Saves. Only the Exarch is deadly use with a Tempest Launcher and Crack Shot. Goes down to Str4, but Crack shot means he ignores cover and rerolls wounds. And it's two blast templates with AP3.
-
Thats what I mean, you are effectively paying a huge amount of points for two wound markers in the other two dark reapers. At nearly 200 points for this tiny unit, I just can't justify it myself!
For a lot less points I can take one of my D cannon platforms, which absolutely terrify units not in cover, including monoliths which I normally struggle to kill.
I will read my dex when I get home tonight.
My seer council cause fear. They dish out parking tickets to enemy tanks.
-
Brief guide to inquisitorial henchmen:
Amazing
- death cult: twenty billion power weapon attacks.
- crusaders: 3+ ward save. Also has a power weapon, just because.
- jokaero: space monkey. Has three heavy weapons at his disposal, and a random bonus for his unit.
- warriors: can have melta and plasma guns. Can also take storm bolters! Power armour and close combat weapons are too expensive to bother with.
OK
- servitors: mindlock forces you to keep an inquisitor with them. Cheap plasma cannons! Also cheap heavy bolters, but no one needs those. Likewise multi-meltas (jokaero have them).
- Mystic: useful if you want to deepstrike near one.
- psyker: potentially good, but too unreliable to use in large groups. Will all die if they get a perils of the warp result.
- arco flagellant: not quite as good as the death cult assassin.
Rubbish
- Banishers: his special ability only works on demons. Grey knights already have a million anti-demon things built in. The eviserator is expensive, and he only gets one attack anyway.
- Demonhost: random weak ability. No good at fighting. Fluff issues!
And as for inquisitors:
Xenos [amazing]
- rad and psychotroke grenades! Plasma syphon!
- also can have a conversion beamer, which is weird and awkward, and a needle pistol which is expensive. And a poisoned dagger, which I doubt you ever need.
- the special character is expensive and has a lot of random items.
Maleus [good]
- can have terminator armour (and a psycannon!).
- can take a nemesis demon hammer and an incinerator. Can also take a demon blade, but it's rubbish.
- Coteaz is one of these. He unlocks henchmen as troops.
Hereticus [rubbish]
-Can take a melta pistol, and some dedicated anti-psyker stuff that no one needs. Almost useless.
- the fool on the walking throne is one of these. He looks absurd.
Please tell me if I am horribly wrong about any of these things!
-
Gladly. You are wrong about Karamazov looking absurd.
-
He goes into battle on a giant walking throne.
Which doesn't have a force field.
!
-
Brief guide to inquisitorial henchmen:
Amazing
- death cult: twenty billion power weapon attacks.
- crusaders: 3+ ward save. Also has a power weapon, just because.
- jokaero: space monkey. Has three heavy weapons at his disposal, and a random bonus for his unit.
- warriors: can have melta and plasma guns. Can also take storm bolters! Power armour and close combat weapons are too expensive to bother with.
OK
- servitors: mindlock forces you to keep an inquisitor with them. Cheap plasma cannons! Also cheap heavy bolters, but no one needs those. Likewise multi-meltas (jokaero have them).
- Mystic: useful if you want to deepstrike near one.
- psyker: potentially good, but too unreliable to use in large groups. Will all die if they get a perils of the warp result.
- arco flagellant: not quite as good as the death cult assassin.
Rubbish
- Banishers: his special ability only works on demons. Grey knights already have a million anti-demon things built in. The eviserator is expensive, and he only gets one attack anyway.
- Demonhost: random weak ability. No good at fighting. Fluff issues!
And as for inquisitors:
Xenos [amazing]
- rad and psychotroke grenades! Plasma syphon!
- also can have a conversion beamer, which is weird and awkward, and a needle pistol which is expensive. And a poisoned dagger, which I doubt you ever need.
- the special character is expensive and has a lot of random items.
Maleus [good]
- can have terminator armour (and a psycannon!).
- can take a nemesis demon hammer and an incinerator. Can also take a demon blade, but it's rubbish.
- Coteaz is one of these. He unlocks henchmen as troops.
Hereticus [rubbish]
-Can take a melta pistol, and some dedicated anti-psyker stuff that no one needs. Almost useless.
- the fool on the walking throne is one of these. He looks absurd.
Please tell me if I am horribly wrong about any of these things!
I would imagine if this was fluff based, Malleus should be the most hardcore as daemons are a lot more dangerous than most Xenos and Heriticus enemies! Where is Eisenhorn, he should be in the book! I like the warrior henchmen the best, the Joakaros are interesting, if expensive. Crusader models are pimp too, so I am agreed with those three in the best catagory
-
He goes into battle on a giant walking throne.
Yes!
Nurgle guys sit in chairs carried by deseased demon gremlins. And the Archlector rides a mobile church.
Welcome to Warhammer.
:-D
-
I would imagine if this was fluff based, Malleus should be the most hardcore as daemons are a lot more dangerous than most Xenos and Heriticus enemies!
Probably!
Of course they will actually all die within five minutes, since they have T3 and no ward save.
Nurgle guys sit in chairs carried by deseased demon gremlins.
Demons, so force fields.
And the Archlector rides a mobile church.
Based on a real thing. Also, wagon.
Giant walking throne = silly, even by 40K standards. I would give it a pass if there was a force field to stop someone shooting that idiot right in the head. But there isn't.
-
The daemon blade is cool. Terminator armour + psycannon is too expensive.
-
The demon blade has the following problems:
- it's two-handed
- it's not a power weapon.
- the ability you get for rolling a '7' only works on demons. That's the most common result...
Terminator armour + psycannon is too expensive.
I don't think the psycannon is expensive if you are already buying the armour... and the armour comes with a free demon hammer.
It works out as 80 points altogether. 65 without the psycannon. It's a cheap way to get a deepstriking HQ!
-
80 pts is a lot!
He is still a puny human, with T3 and S3(6)
Those points could be better spend.
But thats just my opinion;)
-
At least he has a ward save that way!
But I'm not saying I'd use a terminator inquisitor, unless I was doing an all-deepstriking army. I don't want to use any of the grey knight characters.
Anyway, the best choice is clearly a xenos inquisitor with super-grenades.
Xenos all the way!
-
I donīt know....what is so special about a ward save...every higher ranking officer in the IG army has a ward save... :engel:
*pokey poke*
-
hmm has anyone tried casting Doom then eldritch storm on the same unit (spirit stone needed of course). I would love to play test that as the rerolls may make the storm a viable power.
-
80 pts is a lot!
He is still a puny human, with T3 and S3(6)
Those points could be better spend.
But thats just my opinion;)
Sounds similar costs to Eldar and Guard. No way I am paying that many points for a Commissar lord for example! T3 models with poor saves, invunerable or otherwise are a bad investment. My Guard General in his CCS always dies in hand to hand, usually to a powerfist in 1 hit. Invunerable saves of less than 4+ are not worth the points. If I could choose to un-equip it and save points I would.
Can't say I have Feanor. I dont like Eldritch storm, it doesn't seem useful enough for me to trade one of my existing powers for it. Now if Eldar Farseers got FREE spells like Marines then I might consider it, but as it is, it seems too many points for what is a low strength ability. Eldar need the synergy from Doom/Fortune/Guide IMO to get the best out of their units.
Eldrich storm could really do with being at least a point higher in strength and have some kind of bonus to armour penetration/or not bother at all as it really is a difficult power to get its full value from. Much like Mind War, which always used to be a decent power, I just can't afford to take in the current rules, as I need Fortune and Guide!
-
then eldritch storm
(http://api.ning.com/files/O5FAV*QRSZFa*c7N35JEp6dYbvbJBMqIWVai21jCrDpKjvusaH6QuFGYv5w*n9ZVv5zD*yX5GJtnlJC8wU270Q__/LINK_STOP_LAUGHING_MAH_BOI_by_Aethios.png)
-
then eldritch storm
(http://api.ning.com/files/O5FAV*QRSZFa*c7N35JEp6dYbvbJBMqIWVai21jCrDpKjvusaH6QuFGYv5w*n9ZVv5zD*yX5GJtnlJC8wU270Q__/LINK_STOP_LAUGHING_MAH_BOI_by_Aethios.png)
well excuuuuuuse me, Princess! :icon_wink:
I have always been intrigued by eldar but was never sure if I wanted to play them. they seem like they still have a decent list but seem like they could use a tweak of an update. Wouldnt mind collecting them. Scorpions look gorgeous and do dire avengers. I Would love to field an Alaitoc themed army (in color not fluff, I think i wouldnt have more than 1 or 2 pathfinders). The color scheme is delicious. Just wish they had a female model for farseers especially the one from DoW2.
(http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2010/11/Dawn-of-War-Retribution-Eldar-Farseer.jpg)
-
I've always liked Eldar too, but I never did the "buy each army at least once" thing I did with Fantasy when it came to 40k, I stuck with Chaos Marines for many years.
Then I sold them all and I was offered a great deal for Eldar. So there we go. :happy:
So Sunday, I fight the evil Plague Marines of ExWhiteyVille, my list will be atrociously bad.
2 Farseers, both with Fortune and Doom. Singing Speers.
2 Guardian Squads with Missile Launchers and Emboldend Warlocks. Singing Spears. Spirit Seers. Germaine Greers.
6 Scorpions, PowerClaw.
10 Banshees, Acrobats, Mirrors. Wave Serpent with Missiles.
3 Wraith Lords with Missile Launchers and Bright Lances.
Something like that anyway. :engel:
-
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-reROMyrP7JM/TlKWL7j0bsI/AAAAAAAAADI/sTvfd8RkQmg/s1600/615px-Necron_bloodangel_brofist.jpg)
No love for Tyranids there.
-
does anyone play Tau/have hints on army comp?
Did you buy a Tau army?
-
No love for Tyranids there.
But the blood angels get on quite well with haunted robots from the dawn of time.
-
No, but I already had some Tau.
I like Tyranids!
I think I want a tyranid army, at some point. Which probably means never.
-
No, but I already had some Tau.
I like Tyranids!
I think I want a tyranid army, at some point. Which probably means never.
Good, as they suck.
-
Ah, come on. They're okay. Not tip-top ripping-off-heads-everywhere awesome, but okay.
-
Ah, come on. They're okay. Not tip-top ripping-off-heads-everywhere awesome, but okay.
No they suck and you are wrong.
Please imagine text of a non factual nature here until:
Here.
-
This is why people like you.
:-D
-
Mods please delete his post and him, he's talking madness. Thank you.
-
Not a chance. I've sucked up to the bosses.
-
But people think Tau suck, CSM suck, SoB suck, Nids suck, Eldar suck, Necrons.
So you are only left with IG, Orks and SM.
-
So? If you listened to the internet, you couldn't have played anything but VC, Demons or Dark Elves in 7th edition.
Incidentally, people think Orcs suck too.
-
But people think Tau suck, CSM suck, SoB suck, Nids suck, Eldar suck, Necrons.
So you are only left with IG, Orks and SM.
And now you know.
And Knowledge is Power!
(http://www.idealaunch.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/gijoe_cartoon.jpg)
So? If you listened to the internet, you couldn't have played anything but VC, Demons or Dark Elves in 7th edition.
Stop trying to fill his mind with nonsense.
-
Nids do fine, NEcrons are super tough to beat, they just don't win huge very easily. Tau aren't good though, that is true.
-
So? If you listened to the internet, you couldn't have played anything but VC, Demons or Dark Elves in 7th edition.
Incidentally, people think Orcs suck too.
That's my point.
I do hope Tau arent too bad though, seeing as my bro just bought 200 quid of them for 67 including p and p.
-
I do hope Tau arent too bad though, seeing as my bro just bought 200 quid of them for 67 including p and p.
Well, they are all right, but not very strong. They do have some nasty choices though and can be quite a tough nut if played well.
And if he doesn't like them, 67 quid isn't a very big investment and he should be able to recoup it at ebay.
-
I think he's more into the look/feel.
Hopefully he can make them work, and also I just wont take a fully optimised IG list.
and they'll get a new book soon?
-
Still seems a ways off as I believe Necrons will be the next 'Dex to be updated.
And I so hope that the rumors about some kind of Chaos update early next year are true.
-
Incidentally, does anyone have a couple of Chaos Space Marine (or Space Marine, in a pinch) Power Fists he'd be willing to part with? I'm going to expand my CSM a bit and seem to have run out of those.
-
yeah I have some marine ones laying around. Let me hunt them out to show you which. I think assault marines.
-
It is no secret that the issue with the Tau is that they can't slow down armies that deploy average amounts of HtH units (which is most of them). They do have very good shooting, though IG volume fire and Marine precision are better in the long run (though a Marine army fielding enough shooting to be better is not a very good army as a whole).
They are crazy manuverable. I have trouble at times in objective games with them if the player has deployed the correct amount of Devilfish. They haven't beaten me but they have nearly gotten a draw.
-
Maxing out on rail guns and stuff should be the way to go. But I havent played against them very much.
-
The Tau armies that seemed most effective to me so far made good use of Heavy Support (with Hammerheads and Broadsides), fielded a large amount of suits (mainly Crisis) and for troops pretty much skipped the Fire Warriors and went Kroot instead. But I'm far from an expert with Tau.
Still, like PhillyT I haven't lost to them so far.
-
It seems the consensus on the Tau forums is you need lots of FW, devilfish, crisis suits and broadsides, and basically not much of anything else.
I think surely some kroot would be useful.
-
They're sure good to form a (preferably layered) meatshield around your Broadsides and other elements that need ptotection from cc. You'll still get your ass handed to you by good assault troops from other armies, but they'll buy some time.
-
The idea is excactly to get your ass handed to you in CC that that you get to shoot the enemy CC unit in your turn.
I think the trick is to have a mobile force that can move away from CC units while they are distracted by Kroot units.
But thats just my take on it.
-
Well, as I said I'm not exactly an expert with Tau - I can just say what's given me the most problems in the past. And as you say, Kroot bubblewraps, preferably 2 squads deep, are really annoying.
yeah I have some marine ones laying around. Let me hunt them out to show you which. I think assault marines.
That would be awesome! The loyalist markings should be easy enough to get off.
-
I have piles of Black Templar fists too. I have bought 7 conversion kits but varied my powerfists across the army using the commander fists, assault ones, and BT versions. I have a few of those too. I will let you know by tomorrow. If shipping to Germany is less than $4 I'll eat the costs out of sheer love.
I am always disappointed when Firewarriors don't do much of anything. I love the idea, but they are just a little too expensive making it hard to drop the number you need.
-
I have piles of Black Templar fists too. I have bought 7 conversion kits but varied my powerfists across the army using the commander fists, assault ones, and BT versions. I have a few of those too. I will let you know by tomorrow. If shipping to Germany is less than $4 I'll eat the costs out of sheer love.
Just let me know the costs and I'll handle it. Or I could have a look if I have something you might be interested in?
-
We can make it an IOU since I have nothing I need currently but know that as soon as I dig back into my orks I will need something!
-
All right then!
I could take a look, I think I have 5 tankbustas somewhere that were gifted to me once and that are pretty useless to me, since I don't play Orks.
-
Ohhhh, I smell an exchange coming on!
Start contemplating other things you need!
-
Hmmmm. Space Marine Missile launchers? Lotsa missile launchers. Preferably with armored arms, not the scout ones. How 'bout that?
-
GIVE ME BLACK TEMPLARS.
Also, my awful Eldar list took on my own Plague Marines and beat them into small piles of diseased goo.
It was most joyous. Daemon Prince cut down a one wounded wraithlord (which had soaked up many plasma and lascannon shots) only to turn round and get twatted in the face by another.
It got to the point where the Wraithlords had pretty much killed all that could harm them bah plasma guns, and the other guy surrendered.
Amusingly my howling banshees did nothing, getting stuck in their Wave Serpent all game, but the threat of them was huge to the other chap, after what they did to Blood Angels last game (even though I repeatedly told him against toughness 5 it wasn't so sure, even with doom).
-
Nice going. I have decided to branch my Chaos dudes a bit and maybe make a separate Nurgle band (since I don't field Tzeentch and Nurgle in the same army). For now I've decided two just do one squad of Plague Marines and see if I like doing them. We'll see. I'd like to try Nurgle bikers at some point (expensive, but hey - T6 dudes are not to be sneered at) and those Blight Drones from Forgeworld sound interesting as well. Anyone have experience with either?
-
I have used Nurgle bikers a couple of times, once with a biker lord, once without. I am not sure yet how effective they are. Toughness 6 and good armour should be a lot better than I found them to be.
The biggest downside mine had was being assaulted by terminators with powerfists in both games. Now I know this shouldn't happen due to speed advantages etc, but honestly I have no idea how in both games I managed it. Powerfists waste toughness 6 as easily as toughness 4 so there was no real advantage to being that tough.
They were being used as a very expensive screen unit, I figured I would get the most out of their high toughness, but it really didn't work for me. I will just assume I played them wrong!
Id not fancy banshees against plague marines, unless you had a fair few more banshees than he had plague marines in a unit.
Addressing the Tau issue, I can honestly say so far, I have not found a list easier to beat with any of mine. My chaos and guard steamrollered tau into the dirt. They desperately need changing. Kroot are okay, but even average things like chaos marines rip them up in hand to hand. Dedicated combat troops mincemeat them.
They really need to have bs4 on firewarriors. I don't think that would unbalance them. I really like crisis suits [mecha for the win] but my tau opponent seems to not like using them very much and when he does, he gives them weird weapon combos he has found online rather than IMO more sensible combos like fusion/plasma!
-
Huh - getting into cc with fist/hammer-Terminators is indeed a bad idea with those bikers. But as you already said, their speed should ensure you can engage what you want. If there's an obvious target, turboboost into the vicinity and then shoot and assault next turn. T6 with 3+ cover saves should help against pretty much anything.
I'm confident they would be useful, I'm just not confident they're worth their rather impressive price tag.
-
In the game without the lord, they got bogged down in combat with a marine tactical squad on an objective, before being pounced on by terminators. With only 5 bikers, they were unable to kill all the marines before the regular shooty terminators killed them.
In the game with the lord, and I will admit this was entirely my fault, I shot the terminators with my bikers first, as they have a pair of plasma guns hoping to lure them into a combat. I figured Chaos lord with daemon weapon, champion with power fist and 4 other bikers would wipe out a unit of 5 combat terminators led by a chaplain [2x lightning claw, 3x thunder hammers] if they charged me.
It all went wrong as my lord managed to hit himself with his daemon weapon, the unit got ground down and wiped out. If I had managed to actually go first, I am fairly confident my lord could have swung the combat.
Mark of Nurgle is expensive, It may have been better to have Mark of Tzeench tho.
-
Every grey knights list I see on the internet has three dreadnoughts with double autocannons!
I hope 40K players aren't that lame really.
-
Well double autocannons is considered to be the best build available. Some competitive people will throw money at anything if they think it will help them win, hence cookie cooker internet lists. If you are willing to fork out nearly Ģ40 a pop to forge world or make your own conversions I say crack on.
Twin autocannons is actually decent on regular marine Mortis dreadnaughts, never mind with the psybolt ammo making them four twinlinked missile launchers.
This is no worse than taking two of the same Rare choice for a warhammer army IMO. Or three Wraithlords, or three Manticores. Lots of armies have similar lameness available to them.
Doesn't mean you have to do this to win or have fun :-D
-
It's boring and unimaginative.
They also tend to have loads of five-man squads in razorbacks.
-
I would advise you not to mix Psicannon and Incinerator in one squad. They have very different applications, meaning one will be wasted.
-
It's boring and unimaginative.
They also tend to have loads of five-man squads in razorbacks.
Is that any different to space wolves doing the same thing, or the people spamming multiple sets 5 Dire Avengers in a wave serpent? Its equally lame.
Doesn't mean everyone has to do this though. I certainly don't. As a general guide, I think that taking more than 2 of the same unit from heavy support is probably a bad idea if you want to have fun. Much like taking two identical rares in fantasy.
-
Much like taking two identical rares in fantasy.
Doesn't detract from my fun at all!
:-D
I like writing good, efficient armies. Preferably non cookie-cutter. I also like units that are just "fun", but not to the point were I hamper myself when taking them.
Everybody has fun in different ways.
-
I like to crush my opponent and make a victory dance on his corpse.......while drinking beer.
-
I just have my own funny ways of list building :-D
Not very rare if you have multiple of things in my opinion. But that is just me. Some rare units are not especially brilliant.
-
Is that any different to space wolves doing the same thing, or the people spamming multiple sets 5 Dire Avengers in a wave serpent? Its equally lame.
That's boring too.
I would advise you not to mix Psicannon and Incinerator in one squad. They have very different applications, meaning one will be wasted.
Good point. The one problem with buying metal knights from ebay instead of expensive new plastic ones is that I have too many incinerators.
Wait, there's another problem too: metal knights come with halberds. Halberds cost 5 point for tactical squads, which is way too much. But they cost 2 points for purifiers, even though they have two attacks and are thus far better able to make use of the halberds... I don't understand the logic there.
OK, plan B is to use purifiers, since they get free incinerators and cheap halberds. Cortez joins them.
Cortez 100
Ordo Xenos Inquisitor power sword, 3 servo skulls 44
vindicare assassin 145
9 purifiers 2 incinerators, hammer, 6 halberds, rhino 273
10 grey knights 2 psycannons, hammer, halberd, rhino 275
9 henchmen 3 plasma servitors, 2 jokaero, 4 bolters, chimera 205
10 henchmen 3 plasma guns, 6 hotshot lasguns, 1 pistol/sword, chimera 155
10 henchmen 3 melta guns, 6 hotshot lasguns, 1 pistol/sword, chimera 155
dreadnought psycannon, incinerator 145
total = 1497
-
Better. Give it a go and tell us how it went.
-
Oh no, I took three Wraithlords at once, how awful of me! :engel:
No, I just can't be bothered painting many models, and they came with the deal I had. :mrgreen:
-
Oh no, I took three Wraithlords at once, how awful of me!
You're allowed to.
I'm giving you special permission!
Unless they all have the same weapon options...
-
They did, because someone here told me to.
I could go back through the pages, but I'll just blame Crimson.
-
You never obey when I tell you to do something.
Racist.
-
I am many things Aldaris, most of them "ists" or "obes". :icon_wink:
But I only claim obedience when it's convenient... oh the joke relating to a certain people during a certain war I could make. :engel:
-
Doesn't apply. Wasn't me.
:-D
-
Then why would any man have so many bikes in his garage? :engel:
-
Redistribution of bicyclical ressources.
We have so many left over we get one from the state every two years. Unfortunately, they're not quite cutting edge technology wise.
-
Every grey knights list I see on the internet has three dreadnoughts with double autocannons!
I hope 40K players aren't that lame really.
Any different to waltar, wizard lord, lots of halberdiers, 3 mortars and 2 cannons?
And maybe Grey knights need to make a really tight list to be good? dunno.
Also, I thought you werent going to use cortez?
-
Its typical 40k thought. If a unit works, then add more of those units.
Examples:
razorback spams
Dread noughts (not just dakka dreads)
Long fang spam with missile launchers
The list goes on.
Dakka dreads are just something that works for Grey knights. BUT That doesn't mean that everybody plays that way. The lists that are on the internet are often the best lists. Thats what you go to the internet for, to optimize your list. Thats even what you did rufus.
Its the same all the time, one comes on and posts a list and people automatically give replies of how to optimize.
-
Impossible. No one ever goes to the internet to opimize their lists. Unheard of, doesn't happen.
-
But.. but... even Rufus does and he is like, the most fluffiest player i know! :icon_eek:
-
I went to the internet to get variation and fun imput. I went to the internet to get tips about deployment, formations and tactics for using what I have. But instead of getting any of that people always started with what I should throw away and what I should spam. When I said changing much in the units was no option since I believe that real tactics seldom means that you can pick and choose but that you work with what you have I were treated like something the cat dragged in. And when I asked for advice on what tactics to use with the army I had I got no help. No one seemed to understand what I asked about or my way of thinking.
Hence I maintain I am just as tactically interested as any competitive gamer, but I see things from another perspective. I can understand the other perspectives and think along those lines, but I feel none are interested in doing it the other way around. Which is strange cause I see that as a true tactical challenge.
-
I know, right!
I have the same feeling about some internet forums where one asks advice. Boom and your list has been changed from its original thought.
Its not a bad thing per se, I just think its fun to observe the trend .
Im organizing a campaign at work and when one of the players asked for advice on the Danish warhammer forum, everybody came with suggestions of what to take, even though he had stated what he wanted to play with and he didnt want to powergame in the campaign.
-
Well, here's what I imagine could be a fun Nurgle CSM list. Quite fluffy, and quite playable I think. But quite on the expensive side with 2 Forgeworld models...
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Demon Prince
- Wings
- MoN
- Warptime
- - - > 175
*************** 1 Elite ***************
7 Chaos Terminators
- Icon of Nurgle
- 1 x Terminator Champion (2x LC)
- 1 x Terminator (2x LC)
- 1 x Terminator Powerfist + Combimelta
- 1 x Terminator Chain fist + Combimelta
- 1 x Terminator Powerweapon + Combimelta
- 1 x Terminator Powerweapon + Combimelta
- 1 x Terminator Powerweapon + Heavy Flamer
- - - > 350
*************** 3 Core ***************
7 Plague Marines
- Personal Icon
- 2 x Melter
+ Plague Champion
- Powerfist
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 261
7 Plague Marines
- Personal Icon
- 2 x Melter
+ Plague Champion
- Powerfist
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 261
7 Plague Marines
- Personal Icon
- 2 x Melter
+ Plague Champion
- Powerfist
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 261
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
1 Blight Drone of Nurgle
- Mawcannon
- Reaper Autocannon
- - - > 125
*************** 3 Heavy Suppport ***************
Plague Hulk of Nurgle
- 2 DCCW
- Rancid Vomit Attack
- Rot Cannon
- - - > 205
7 Chaos Space Marines Havocs
- 4 x Missile Launcher
+ - Chaos Rhino
- - - > 220
Chaos-Vindicator
- Demonic Posession
- - - > 145
1998
-
ILLEGAL LIST FORGEWORLDSTUFF RABBLE RABBLE.
Does anyone actually know anyone who'll go "No, I never want to play against Forgeworld stuff"? I know their kind exist but... this is why we have fire.
I want to try out some of the Eldar stuff, and a friend of mine wants to do those traitor guardsmen in imperial armour.
-
Don't know the Eldar stuff (rules wise) but the Blight Drone and the Plague Hulk seem really nice. Awesome models, and hey - the Hulk may be a bit on the points intensive side, but AV13 with Demonic Possession and a built in 4+ coversave aren't too bad for a Walker...
-
Plus it looks adorable!
I want a Wraith Seer, a Wasp, a Hornet, multiples of previous, etc. :evil:
-
Yes, I know what you mean. *sigh*
That's the trouble with Forgeworld. If they have a lot of stuff for a range you love, it's going to end very poorly for your wallet if you give in to your buying impulses...
-
They did, because someone here told me to.
I could go back through the pages, but I'll just blame Crimson.
I am fairly certain I said not to take 3 of the same option! :-D Wraithlords are good, but they have their limitations. Being a monstrous creature is all fine and dandy until you come against poison!
If I had the money, id buy loads more forge world stuff than I do. As it is, I have bits and bobs for my guard and chaos armies.
-
Well, I just entered the list my opponent used in my game last thursday into Onlinecodex.
215 points over, and where I didn't know exact equipment I assumed the minimum possible.
God, I hate it when they do this.
-
After the game...pants down. If someone has nothing to hide he has no problems with this.
Same goes with champions in Warhammer. There are no champions in the unit if the war altar hits it but if there is a challenge by a super angry black ork warlord suddenly Hauptmann Hans is jumping to the front. In the army introduction I ask about everything musicians, banner, non magical equipment (if the guy afforded a greatweapon he will have no magical one).
-
That wasn't the problem, I remember exactly what he had - and that comes to 2215, not 2000. At least. Assuming he had a regular Librarian and not an Epistolary, no extra armor... you know what I mean.
-
I would suggest you don't play them again, or if you do, insist on seeing their list, as it could be a genuine mistake. That said if it was on purpose, it is poor form.
-
I have a simple spreadsheet I do my lists on, and one time I screwed up and didn't put in the cost for one entry - a genuine mistake, but had me 125 points over. It does happen. Just check the list.
-
After the game...pants down.
!
-
Some people are genuinely good at eeking out the points in their books though.
We have two marine players in our group. One always seems to field miles more things than the other, even when they play against each other. We asked him about it, and he showed us his list and let us price up his list and it was actually within points.
When we deploy things we tend to explain if a unit has a champion, what special gear a unit has if it is not immediately apparent due to conversions etc. EG I go, "here is my unit of 10 chaos marines, they have a champion, and everyone is equiped with what is on the model, except the champion doesn't really have a plasma pistol because it is a heap of **** :-D"
-
I'm not sure I understand the wound allocation rules.
Admittedly, I haven't played a proper game yet. This weekend!
-
Wound allocation doesn't work as it is supposed to in some scenarios. I will try to explain it to you Rufus :-)
Scenario 1. Ten Marines with bolters vs ten Marines with bolters.
10 shots, hit 7, wound 4, four models make saves, the player who has been shot removes any three models. That is nice and simple.
Scenario 2. Ten Marines with bolters vs three marines, two with bolters, one with a special weapon
10 shots, hit 7, wound 4. Wound allocation funtime. You allocate wounds per group of identical armed models. Eg in this scenario you can stack 3 on the bolter guys and 1 on the special weapon, or two on the bolters and one on the special weapon. Spare wounds do not transfer from group to group. So if the bolter guys fail 3 wounds, the spare wound is lost.
Scenario 3. Ten marines, plasma cannon, plasmagun and bolters vs five marines, 1 with plasma gun, and 1 sergent.
This is a more likely scenario and can get complicated fast.
Fire plasmacannon first [as it has more targets to hit at this stage] and hits 5, wounding 5. Plasmagun wounds 1, the other marines bolters inflict say 4 wounds.
So you now have 6 plasma ap2 wounds, and 4 boltgun wounds at ap5 to divide between the 5 models. However, there are three model groups which makes this complicated.
You could for example. stick all 6 plasma wounds on the three bolter models, and put two boltgun wounds on each of the special weapon and sergent, meaning the two more valuble squad members could survive! Notice if you didnt fire the bolters, you would have killed the whole squad :eusa_wall: Also if the five man unit didn't have different types of models, they would also all have been wiped out, regardless of the bolters firing or not.
That make sense?
-
That make sense?
No!
I don't understand how firing more weapons can mean fewer casualties. Well, I can understand how it happens, just not why the rules allow it.
Surely you should have to put one plasma wound on each model before doubling up? Otherwise, isn't it total nonsense?
Thanks for the explanation though!
-
I donīt try to figure it out and just do it like I always did it...if I take 5 casualties without any safes I remove those first and then roll armour and check if some of the others survive...also I pick the models that die.
-
Rufus I agree with you, but that is unfortunately not how the rules work. 6th edition rumours have it that this will be changed, again. In hand to hand combat, this same rule screws over power weapons for the same reason, but NOT powerfists in most cases. This is because you strike at a different time and thus the only wounds you are dishing out are s8 powerfist attacks. This is one reason I always include a Fisto marine :-D
The best way to avoid this problem is to pick weapons that have complimentary ap values. Eg all low or higher than the armour you expect to go against.
It is worth noting that some units can be built to specifically take advantage of this rule. See nobs bikers, space wolf rider things which can both take every model with different gear and they have multiple wounds meaning that the unit can take a huge amount of wounds before losing any models, greatly increasing its survivability and death dealing potential.
My Leman Russ tanks never ever fire their heavy bolter if the enemy is out of cover. There is no point as it makes the enemy have a chance of saving. It is ridiculous but true that firing more shots means people have more chance of survival. If you really must fire the prow gun, upgrade to a lascannon.
-
It is ridiculous but true that firing more shots means people have more chance of survival.
I think it's a massive flaw in the rules. It's overly-complicated, and it has ridiculous results. I really doubt they intended it to be this way.
Bring on 6th edition!
It is worth noting that some units can be built to specifically take advantage of this rule. See nobs bikers, space wolf rider things which can both take every model with different gear and they have multiple wounds meaning that the unit can take a huge amount of wounds before losing any models, greatly increasing its survivability and death dealing potential.
Also grey knight paladins.
Which I am definitely not using.
-
As long as you dont play against people who specifically create these rule exploit units, the rule functions fairly reasonably. I can see why they have done this, but the fact the rulebook itself expressly shows how to use the wound allocation to keep men alive suggests to me GW knew exactly what they were doing when they put this rule in.
I beleive the proposed rule is for every 5th wound you inflict on an enemy unit, you can chose who takes that hit. Unsure if this will allow you to put an unsavable hit onto a particular man though. It may well be I misread what was put and that every 5th casualty you get to pick.
Generally speaking it is not an issue though Rufus. It may be more so with grey knights due to small unit sizes, as this rule only has any effect if the target unit takes more wounds than it has bodies.
Palidins even have an item specifically designed to exploit this rule. That 2++ ward save stick.
-
Also grey knight paladins.
Which I am definitely not using.
They're simply too bloody expensive. Take 10 Paladins, add an Apothecary and a Brotherhood Banner, Psi ammo, arm the bunch and then look at the price tag. There won't be a lot "rest of the army" left.
Also, they're slooooow (unlike Thunderwolf cav or Nob bikers) and they die easily to highpowered shooting as they only have a 5++ against ranged attacks. Meaning a single Demolisher shell (S10 AP2) could mean it's literally all over for you.
So yes, Paladins can play the wounds shenanigans game. No, they're not very good at it.
So you might as well take them with a clean conscience.
:-D
-
Aahhhhhhhhhhh!
The site ate my well-reasoned reply.
Forget it then.
-
rufus being well reasoned?
I fnar in disbelieving exuberance.
-
You'll never see it now, because the forum consumed my post. And I don't intend to say anything well-reasoned in the future.
Back to angry nonsense!
Does anyone have a good house-rule-type fix for the wound allocation rules?
-
You distribute the hits for every different AP seperate starting with the killiest AP weapon.
-
You distribute the hits for every different AP seperate starting with the killiest AP weapon.
That would work, although you would still get wasted wounds from the other guns after the Low AP guns killed most of the unit. Unless you are proposing you remove the dead ones from the low AP hits first, before then distributing the remaining save-able hits? That would be best IMO.
-
I have a hard time believing that all the kids who play 40K do wound allocation correctly by the rules in the book!
Unless you are proposing you remove the dead ones from the low AP hits first, before then distributing the remaining save-able hits? That would be best IMO.
Hmmm, maybe.
Resolve each weapon type separately? Does that create any other problems?
-
Yes more people die.
-
Potentially a lot more.
And you'd have a big advantage when you bring as many different guns as possible, since they'd all be resolved separately and the chance that any hits would be discarded because of overkill would be significantly reduced.
-
Is that bad though? If so, why?
-
Not bad per se, you'd just potentially open the door to a different kind of exploit.
All in all wound allocation usually works fine the way it is, but I suppose just ruling that all hits from each weapon type need to be distributed evenly (instead of just the total number of hits) would eliminate all propblems. Then you could still resolve them all at the same time.
I hope that was understandable.
-
understandable to me, I'd kind of like to resolve all weapon types from a unit at a given time, really get bang for my bucks out of those long fang units and their razorbacks.
good thing for my opponent I can't take too many of them.
It's why I like the "fire supported spearhead" form of build anyways It doesn't need to be rules lawyered or spammed or any other type of gamer profanity. it just works in a logical manner.
-
But.. but... even Rufus does and he is like, the most fluffiest player i know! :icon_eek:
I don't believe it.
That he does it that is. If he does, he's no longer the fluffiest.
-
... 6th edition rumours ...
When's that coming out, another 2 or 3 years from now?
-
... 6th edition rumours ...
When's that coming out, another 2 or 3 years from now?
No, this summer;) in 2012 of course
-
I just don't want to have to think "right, so my leman russ should surely fire all its guns here... but actually firing the bolters would be a disadvantage so I'll just fire the main gun"- and have to work this out everytime, and then come out worse for firing more weapons.
That's stupid! it makes me not want to play 40k.
Which obviously is a ridiculous over reaction
-
... 6th edition rumours ...
When's that coming out, another 2 or 3 years from now?
No, this summer;) in 2012 of course
Phew, well thats a relief, still plenty of time to learn 5th editon then, thank goodness its not happening, too soon. :icon_lol:
-
Would it be unfair of me to take a leman russ in a 750 pt IG list, vs Rufus' grey knights, knowing he wont be using a vindicare, or a Dakka dread?
He can basically only kill it with melta henchmen?
-
What is a dakka dread?
-
What is a dakka dread?
2 twin linked autocannons, with psybolt ammo for +1 strength,
so 4 twin linked missile launchers.
-
Can we not ever, ever call that a dakka dread again? If I see it, I will delete that post. The only things which have Dakka attached to them are orky things. The only dread with dakka in its name is a dakka dredd which is a deff dredd armed with 2 rokkit launchas.
Fools!
-
Would it be unfair of me to take a leman russ in a 750 pt IG list, vs Rufus' grey knights, knowing he wont be using a vindicare, or a Dakka dread?
He can basically only kill it with melta henchmen?
The dread doesn't have much chance to silence the Russ anyway (needing 6's to glance) - Melta is much more likely to be effective. And since those Meltas aren't footslogging, it's doable.
I would have no qualms about the Russ. You and Rufus on the other hand are supposed to be cushy fluff gamers, so you should be ashamed for even considering it.
-
Is this completely incompetant? I'm being abused into starting a small 40k Guard army and I've been converting everything for it. The idea is to play with different races ala Tau but without the static firing and represent it using guard rules.
All the plasma guys will be Vespid models sans wings. They look like specialists that way. If Plasma is a stupid choice then as long as they are all armed the same I couldn't care less as to what they change in too.
Company Command Regimental Standard, plasma gun 80
Veteran Squad Heavy bolter, carapace armour, Plasma gun, Chimera 180
Veteran Squad 2 x Plasma Guns, carapace armour Chimera 175
Armoured Sentinel, Autocannon 60 - Looks cool.
-
Would it be unfair of me to take a leman russ in a 750 pt IG list, vs Rufus' grey knights, knowing he wont be using a vindicare, or a Dakka dread?
He can basically only kill it with melta henchmen?
The dread doesn't have much chance to silence the Russ anyway (needing 6's to glance) - Melta is much more likely to be effective. And since those Meltas aren't footslogging, it's doable.
I would have no qualms about the Russ. You and Rufus on the other hand are supposed to be cushy fluff gamers, so you should be ashamed for even considering it.
It's not about cushy fluff gaming, it's that I don't want to make the game boring, with an unkillable unit destroying his entire (small) army. at 750 points, and with GK, there might be funny balance issues at smaller points?
What would be the point of playing that game, unless you were at a tourney!
But I am struggling writing a 750 list to transport, as well as my 2500 orc army. 70 dudes, 2 chimeras and a sentinel! ridiculous.
Or, 50 dudes, 2 chimeras and a leman russ.
-
I would just drop the leman russ on the table. It is important to remain cool. That little force loves their tank. It protects them.
-
@ Finlay: let's put it this way - if he's footslogging or you de-mech him early, he's going to be hurting. If he manages to get close he's fine, and when he goes first he has a reasonable chance of making it. But the essence is: a Russ is very strong at this points level. Especially if you also have to deal with a ton of infantry.
@ Mogsam: Some issues. The banner won't do much for you since your troops are riding in APCs. As to your actual squads, here's a suggestion, keeping your basic setup:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
CCS
- Company Commander (bolter)
- 1 x Veteran weapon team heavy bolter
- 2 x Veteran with Grenade launchers
- - - > 72
*************** 2 Troops ***************
Veteran squad
- 1 x Veteran weapon team lascannon
- 3 x Veteran w/ plasmagun
+ Chimera
- multilaser
- heavy flamer
- - - > 190
Veteran squad
- 1 x Veteran weapon team lascannon
- 3 x Veteran w/ melter
+ Chimera
- multilaser
- heavy flamer
- - - > 175
*************** 1 Fast Attack ***************
1 Armoured Sentinel
- 1 x autocannon
- 1 x searchlight
- - - > 61
498
That should kick some ass.
@ Phil: my man!
-
Dakka dread!!!!
Nobody uses a Dakka deffdread... I hope...
-
What is a dakka dread?
2 twin linked autocannons, with psybolt ammo for +1 strength,
so 4 twin linked missile launchers.
On the internet this is actually usually referred to as the Rifleman Dread, after its very similarly armed Battletech mech armed with four large calibre autocannon :-D
You only need to worry about firing the Leman Russes bolters Finlay if you think your battle cannon will hit and wound everyone in the squad. If it isn't likely, or is indeed impossible due to spread of troops, then you may as well fire the heavy bolters.
Edit: The term dakka is usually applied to Ork units, but it usually means a large volume of fire. I am not sure four shots is really dakka.
-
Dakka Dread Dakka Dread Dakka Dread Dakka Dread
OK, so what do I bring in my 750 points of grey knights to defeat finlay and his lemon rusk guard army?
Keeping in mind the mandatory two troop choices cost 550-600 points! And that henchmen are not troops, so no meltas. At least I can take a 25 point inquisitor for the mandatory HQ.
I'm bringing Simon the Psycannon dreadnought, which is 145 points. The internet claims that psycannons are moderately likely to kill AV 14.
-
Henchmen are troops with Coteaz.
And hey - you even have a model of him! What a nice coincidence.
I would suggest something like this. I tried to remember what you have and what you like, so here goes:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Inquisitor Coteaz (needs to go with the the shooty Hechmen so the Servitors won't shut down)
- - - > 100
*************** 2 Troops ***************
Henchmen
+ 2 Servitors
- 2 x Multimelta
+ 1 Jokaero
+ 8 Warrior Acolytes
- 3 x Melter
+ - Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 172
Henchmen
+ 3 Crusaders
+ 6 Deatchcult Assassins
+ - Chimera
- Multilaser
- Heavy Flamer
- - - > 190
(this squad is basically total overkill against guard, but I tried not to tailor too much. Your goal should be to charge at least two enemy squads at once.)
*************** 1 Fast attack ***************
Interceptor Squad
5 Grey Knights
- 3 x Nemesis Sword
- 3 x Storm Bolters
- 1 x Psicannon
+ Justicar
- Nemesis Demonhammer
- Storm Bolter
- - - > 150
*************** 1 Heavy Support ***************
Cybot
- Nemesis Doomfist
- Heavy Flamer
- Twin linked assault cannon
- Psibolt ammo
- - - > 140
(this is the configuration you have, isn't it? Assault cannon will give you 4 S6 rending shots (S7 with the ammo) like a psicannon, so the rules are the same)
752
two points over. I hope that isn't a problem.
-
Dakka Dread Dakka Dread Dakka Dread Dakka Dread
OK, so what do I bring in my 750 points of grey knights to defeat finlay and his lemon rusk guard army?
Keeping in mind the mandatory two troop choices cost 550-600 points! And that henchmen are not troops, so no meltas. At least I can take a 25 point inquisitor for the mandatory HQ.
I'm bringing Simon the Psycannon dreadnought, which is 145 points. The internet claims that psycannons are moderately likely to kill AV 14.
Rending s7? Should be fairly capable I would have thought as Assault cannons do a good job against armour 14 and they are lower strength.
Aldaris, can you have psybolt ammo on an assault cannon? Wheres the beardy smiley?!
-
I would suggest something like this. I tried to remember what you have and what you like, so here goes:
Thanks Aldaris!
I had been thinking of going all-grey-knights at this point level. So actually henchmen are the way to go?
I can't make exactly that list (model issues), but I can do something pretty close.
can you have psybolt ammo on an assault cannon?
Yes, that's how you get the psycannon dreadnought. A psycannon is just an assault cannon with psybolts. It's not twin-linked though: dreadnought weapons are all twin-linked apart from assault cannons and plasma cannons.
-
It's not twin-linked though: dreadnought weapons are all twin-linked apart from assault cannons and plasma cannons.
You're right, I'm using a German program to write lists, so I have to translate manually when i post one here. Got "Autokanone" (autocannon) and "Sturmkanone" (assault cannon) mixed up.
Concerning choices, yes, I'd consider Hechmen the way to go. Sure you can do a knights army too, but you simply won't have a lot at this points level.
-
Thanks for the help!
I think what Finlay and I are trying to achieve is to have two reasonably well-matched 750 point forces to use in a couple of introductory games, since neither of us really knows how to play yet. If one army is way more powerful than the other it's not going to work!
-
can you have psybolt ammo on an assault cannon?
Yes, that's how you get the psycannon dreadnought. A psycannon is just an assault cannon with psybolts. It's not twin-linked though: dreadnought weapons are all twin-linked apart from assault cannons and plasma cannons.
I thought psycannons were different to assault cannons, being assault two, heavy four? I appreciate on a dread that means they are always heavy four, but it is not the same weapon.
-
The difference only matters on power armoured grey knights... who can't have assault cannons anyway.
On a vehicle, assault cannon + psybolts = psycannon, just like heavy flamer + psyflame = incinerator.
-
The difference only matters on power armoured grey knights... who can't have assault cannons anyway.
On a vehicle, assault cannon + psybolts = psycannon, just like heavy flamer + psyflame = incinerator.
Or if you like, normal weapons + Matt Ward = more powerful versions of normal weapons. :-D
There really is no excuse for normal marines carrying weapons which are more powerful than terminator assault cannons.
-
There really is no excuse for normal marines carrying weapons which are more powerful than terminator assault cannons.
Define "more powerful"?
Isn't a missile launcher "more powerful" than an assault cannon? A melta? A Lascannon?
-
I decided not to take a leman russ.
combining 2 squads with flamers, and commissar with power weapon- ill advised slaughteration!
-
There really is no excuse for normal marines carrying weapons which are more powerful than terminator assault cannons.
Define "more powerful"?
Isn't a missile launcher "more powerful" than an assault cannon? A melta? A Lascannon?
In this case its an assault cannon with more strength. I would say that is more powerful! The other weapons are a completely different type of weapon, so it is more difficult to say specifically if they are more or less powerful. If I remember correctly, the weapons terminators have are specific for that armour due to recoil which power armour can't handle. That was the fluff, way back in the olden days though.
-
The other weapons are a completely different type of weapon, so it is more difficult to say specifically if they are more or less powerful. If I remember correctly, the weapons terminators have are specific for that armour due to recoil which power armour can't handle. That was the fluff, way back in the olden days though.
My point exactly - a Psycannon has similar rules, but is a completely different weapon in the fluff. Mainly with much more rare and powerful ammo. Terminators are still the only models capable of lugging actual assault cannons around.
I don't know what that needs to be "excused" here. Apart from the very fashionable "bash Matt Ward" which I find quite tiresome.
-
That is a fair point Aldaris. I shouldn't really blame Matt Ward, even if he is the lead designer, I would presume there is a team involved and someone actually has to sanction anything he does.
Although Necrons and Blood Angels best friends together is a heresy that shouldn't exist. Doesn't mean he wrote it though!
I was always of the impression grey knights were a chapter of terminators, but the rules/costs make actual terminator units not especially useful. I think that is a big failure in the codex.
-
Who is Matt ward...a friend of that Elric guy?
-
That is a fair point Aldaris. I shouldn't really blame Matt Ward, even if he is the lead designer, I would presume there is a team involved and someone actually has to sanction anything he does.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of his fluffery either. I'm just getting tired of every stupid asshole (not you!) on the internet falling all over themselves yelling how much he sucks while the stuff he designed sells like hot cakes.
Fucking hypocrites.
-
If Matt Ward does every codex book, then that would also be fine. Phil Kelly also did a good job with the Dark eldar. As long as their is consistency there should be no issue. After all, if everyone has awesome units, it levels the playing field.
If he can be criticized for anything it is for making his books *too good* with multiple good builds, very few, if any, poor units. I think this is what upsets people more than anything when they get other designers [Hey Gav, thanks for the brilliant chaos 40k 4th edition book with no options] to do different books.
All the 5th ed books seem good to me, including nids [I know not everyone agrees with that point]
There are few legitimate complaints I have about his designing. Specifically marine land raiders having space for an extra marine, yet grey knights dont! I don't understand how an identical unit, in books designed by the same person can have different specifications.
Here is a horrific build for Grey Knights.
Inquisitor Coteaz
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
-
You can make absurd lists with most army books though.
The real flaw in the grey knights book is the fact that there are only two troop choices... unless you break out a special character.
And the five-point halberds for strike squads, when all the metal power armoured knights have halberds. They are basically saying, "buy the new plastic ones, or alternately just use them as purifiers which are massively better anyway."
There really is no excuse for normal marines carrying weapons which are more powerful than terminator assault cannons.
But the bullets are psychic!
Psychic bullets!
Specifically marine land raiders having space for an extra marine, yet grey knights dont!
Blood angels get the smaller version too... though why anyone would pick a standard landraider over either of the two variants is beyond me. Lascannon tax in action again!
Plus landraiders look like shoe boxes anyway.
-
Inquisitor Coteaz
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
3x Acolytes w/LasPlas Razorback
Well, yeah. Razorback spam. Annyoing and very, very boring. But let's look at it that way - Phil Kellys Wolves can pull this off as well, a bit more expensive but with troops that can actually do something inside. So can pretty much every other Marine 'dex.
But I can tell you that you'll rarely actually PLAY against lists like that, outside bigger tournaments. Because that requires quite an investment (10-12 tanks plus dreadnoughts) and isn't much fun.
And Landraiders are awesome. rufus can't hurt them with his mean, mean words.
-
I did say it was a horrific build. I would doubt anyone who plays for fun with friends would even consider that. Owning 12 tanks isn't that unlikely though, I have more in my guard collection, including over Ģ100 in two artillery tanks.
You can do exactly the same with most armies, cheap troops in a transport.
Have you seen forge worlds new land raider? Its based on the old school version that looks like a WW1 tank
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Events/Games_Day_UK_2011.html A bit pricey though!
Landraiders are too expensive. Even the variants are quite a lot of points to pay. Someone at GW thinks a pair of twin lascannons is worth that many points, when it clearly isn't. The only real issue is that so many books have them in, short of FAQing every book, they would only ever upset people if they changed them too much. I suspect this is what prevents them changing them now.
My proposed fix is for the lascannons to fire as two lascannons rather than one twinlinked one. Instantly much better and quite probably worth the points!
-
I did say it was a horrific build. I would doubt anyone who plays for fun with friends would even consider that.
Sure I would, if I played someone who doesn't mind bareknuckles Warhammer and I considered this list to be interesting.
I'm still fighting against that common - and completely unfounded - opinion of "you can either play for fun OR you can play competitive/with hard lists". As if those two were mutually exclusive...
-
Sorry I dont mean to give that impression Aldaris.
I personally like fluffy lists, but I play to win. If I took part in a serious competition, or indeed when we occasionally play our league games in 40k, everyone, including myself, seems to up the power of their list.
Some people have fun tweeking every inch out of their list in order to create a monster. I used to be that person around a decade ago. These days I don't care much about making a really strong list for friendly games. Most of my gaming group is like me, but I do appreciate I play in a bubble and my group isn't representative of the rest of the community.
I dont buy an army list. I collect an army. Which usually means buying every single unit option :icon_biggrin:
-
So do I - for instance, I own 10 Jezzails and have never, ever fielded them... Chaos Spawn are a similar story.
:-D
-
I'm still fighting against that common - and completely unfounded - opinion of "you can either play for fun OR you can play competitive/with hard lists". As if those two were mutually exclusive...
You aren't allowed to have fun unless you do things my way!
All the plasma guys will be Vespid models sans wings.
Are you really doing an army of wasps?
-
Thats what I think is so great about the IG list.
Almost everything is viable (apart from ratlings and storm troopers)
-
Incidentally, I also own 10 ratlings. And a load of Stormtroopers.
Maybe I should give 'em a chance to prove everyone wrong.
:-D
-
All the plasma guys will be Vespid models sans wings.
Are you really doing an army of wasps?
Not an army, just the special weapons. The rest are converted guards men!
-
Incidentally, I also own 10 ratlings. And a load of Stormtroopers.
Maybe I should give 'em a chance to prove everyone wrong.
:-D
Against Whitey's 3 wraithlord army.
-
Buggers still have a good armor save... will likely take more than one turn to drop one, and killing MCs should be about what they're most useful at. Still, against Tyrandids and Eldar they could indeed prove useful. Although Tyranid MCs tend to have a lot of HPs.
Stormtroopers now, hm. I simply can't come up with any scenario were they'd really do much better than a bunch of Vets at almost double the cost...
-
Incidentally, I also own 10 ratlings. And a load of Stormtroopers.
Maybe I should give 'em a chance to prove everyone wrong.
:-D
Against Whitey's 3 wraithlord army.
I cannot see that working.
-
(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll277/mogsam_moogle/DSC00590.jpg)
My first 40k figures. Can't take a good photo of them for some reason. Seems harder to do without the ranks and stuff.
-
Orange and grey! Good choice. :::cheers:::
I'm using orange on my orks. And blue eyes, instead of the ridiculous red. Haven't decided what I want to do when doing an IG army someday.
-
It's the more human COG from AT 43!
I like Garish Orange, especially when not done by Philly.
However, I see you have gone beyond the lines...
-
Thats what I think is so great about the IG list.
Almost everything is viable (apart from ratlings and storm troopers)
Ogryns? I think Ratlings and Stormtroopers are more viable than them! I can't imagine any point in time where I would use either Ogryns, or Stormtroops due to the absurd cost. I have a unit of Stormtroopers, but I can't justify buying an Ogryn unit simply because I know I would never field it.
Ratlings on the other hand are cheap b4 snipers. Easily the most efficient way to get snipers in your list. Elite slots are not exactly difficult to come by as Guard as PBS are the only real top notch choice from this section.
-
It's the more human COG from AT 43!
I like Garish Orange, especially when not done by Philly.
However, I see you have gone beyond the lines...
Lies! I never go beyond the lines!also I don't get the first bit.
Thanks chaps, I have no idea how to play but why bother with camp when you're a space goatlion thing.
-
Your space goatlions look amazing! How did you make them?
I like the orange too. My orange paint pot is sadly underused.
Also, try to finish this army, for a change.
-
I like the orange too. My orange paint pot is sadly underused.
I use it for rust. And I'm considering using it for the goggles of my Delaque Gang, Natural Born Killers style:
http://www.moviereporter.net/assets/movies/poster/000/000/109/original/NaturalBornKillers-Poster.jpg
-
My vehicles don't go rusty!
I like the goggle idea though.
-
I've been using my watery foundation orange for rust, it works nicely.
Mogsam, you must now change your sig. You have gone beyond the lines.
-
I've caught all the 40k bug reading this and have got the box of spacemarines, on the sprues still, and am going to paint up a force.
I'd always liked the idea of mechanised spacemarines, all mounted, and entirely composed of the 7th tactical reserve company troops. This means tactical squad and landspeeders as the Revilers, the chapter I've chosen, are a codex chapter.
Not having played since 3rd edition, and basically only having my feel for a fluffy force, i'm thinking the following.
Captain
Command squard, vet sar with power fist, apothicary, 2 flamers in Razorback ?? (not sure of the weapon)
10 marine tactical squad with HB in rhino
10 marine tactical squad with HB in rhino
5 marine tactical squad with combi melta and melta in razorback with ?? (can it have a multi melta)
5 marine tactical squad with missile launcher and plasma gun in razorback with twin las cannon
3 landspeeders with multi meltas
2 land speeder typhoons
whirlwind
2 predators (not sure about the sponsons though, can the tank move 12" and shoot the auto cannon?)
is it work getting any of the vehicle upgrades? If extra armour then i'll get the forge world kits as i've got most of the models already.
Thanks for any advise, i'm hoping for a fairly balanced list.
-
Those orange guards are ace! I feel inclined to sell my orks and get more Guards and Sisters.
-
:icon_eek: Sell your orks? You must be joking. :icon_lol:
-
I've caught all the 40k bug reading this and have got the box of spacemarines, on the sprues still, and am going to paint up a force.
Can you do it by tomorrow?
razorback with ?? (can it have a multi melta)
No. The choices are: heavy bolter, heavy flamer, assault cannon, lascannon, lascannon/plasma gun. But lascannons are a bit rubbish.
can the tank move 12" and shoot the auto cannon?
No. One weapon if you move 6", all if you don't move. Unless you use the blood angels book, since their predators are fast. So are their rhinos and razorbacks! Cheaters.
is it work getting any of the vehicle upgrades?
Generally, no.
Of course I don't actually know much about 40K!
What colours do Revilers use?
-
Those orange guards are ace! I feel inclined to sell my orks and get more Guards and Sisters.
Thanks! I like them too.
They are made from beasts of choas goes and green stuff!
-
Someone should call the inquisition and get them all killed!
-
The revilers are dark grey in colour, with a skull with lighting bolt through as the symbol. You can see tomorrow
-
Someone should call the inquisition and get them all killed!
The only background I like in 40k I the tau because of the silly inquisition malarky.makes humans boring!
-
I've caught all the 40k bug reading this and have got the box of spacemarines, on the sprues still, and am going to paint up a force.
Can you do it by tomorrow?
razorback with ?? (can it have a multi melta)
No. The choices are: heavy bolter, heavy flamer, assault cannon, lascannon, lascannon/plasma gun. But lascannons are a bit rubbish.
can the tank move 12" and shoot the auto cannon?
No. One weapon if you move 6", all if you don't move. Unless you use the blood angels book, since their predators are fast. So are their rhinos and razorbacks! Cheaters.
is it work getting any of the vehicle upgrades?
Generally, no.
Of course I don't actually know much about 40K!
What colours do Revilers use?
Hey RufusFr1day, the lascannon/twinplasma version is considered to be really decent. All of the other weapons are twinlinked. Of which the only ones you get in the box are lascannons and heavy bolters, so anything else you would have to convert or locate parts from elsewhere.
Tactical marines are in my view pretty decent, 3-6 squads is a good base for any marine army. You can more or less take any combination of heavy or special weapons for these units, it wont make them bad.
I am fairly certain you can't buy 5 man squads and give them special and heavy weapons? I thought they were only available for full 10 man squads. Least thats what I am told by our two marine players who tell me chaos have it much better :|
Unless you play as blood angels, all tanks either sit still and fire everything, or move 6 and fire 1 gun + defensive weapons, or move 12 and fire nothing. Landspeeders and blood angels being fast, move into the next bracket allowing you to move 6 and fire everything, 12 and fire 1gun + defensive weapons. Fliers can usually boost to go even faster as well, not shooting.
-
Concerning special/heavies on marines:
No specials or heavies at under 10 dudes in the squad. BUT. You really should consider using the combat tactics rule which allows you to split up a squad at deployment.
So you can buy a squad of 10 Marines and a Razorback for them. The Marines get one heavy and one special weapon. Normally mixing specials and heavies in one squad isn't such a hot idea: one is mostly short ranged so needs to move, the other needs to stay put to be able to fire. Solution: you make one static section with the heavy weapon (eg a missile launcher) that stays back and shoots, while the other half of the squad with the special (eg a melter) led by the Sarge (who might be carrying a powerfist) advance in the Razorback. And both elements are considered to be scoring!
Also, would you consider a small Terminator section to be fluffy in your 7th company, or is that reserved for the first?
-
Concerning special/heavies on marines:
No specials or heavies at under 10 dudes in the squad. BUT. You really should consider using the combat tactics rule which allows you to split up a squad at deployment.
So you can buy a squad of 10 Marines and a Razorback for them. The Marines get one heavy and one special weapon. Normally mixing specials and heavies in one squad isn't such a hot idea: one is mostly short ranged so needs to move, the other needs to stay put to be able to fire. Solution: you make one static section with the heavy weapon (eg a missile launcher) that stays back and shoots, while the other half of the squad with the special (eg a melter) led by the Sarge (who might be carrying a powerfist) advance in the Razorback. And both elements are considered to be scoring!
Also, would you consider a small Terminator section to be fluffy in your 7th company, or is that reserved for the first?
Tactics for tactical squads and splitting with the sergeant/special weapon and the heavy in the other half haven't changed at all since 2nd edition!
You may be able to field this army list using the blood angel book, you still get tacticals in troops, but your tanks will be faster. As far as my memory serves, blood angels still maintain the reserve companies as per a codex chapter, so this is doable.
If you take plasmaguns as special, you don't have as much need to split the unit, as they have a good range on them. If therefore you are intending to field them as a 10 man unit, consider taking a plasmagun and some complimentary heavy weapon [eg not a heavy bolter]
-
You may be able to field this army list using the blood angel book, you still get tacticals in troops, but your tanks will be faster.
Yes, the blood angels book is pretty much 'space marines plus.' You gain quite a lot by using their rules, and you don't lose much of consequence.
I'd do it for the fast rhinos! And the assault cannon scout predator.
the silly inquisition malarky.makes humans boring!
Just for that, I'm going to destroy your planet!
-
printing decals for my Spacewolf force today I got a better color Laser printer so the printing on the decals will be crisper and not bleed like the last crap I had done.
after recent experience with it I highly recommend Micro sol for softening the shoulder decals to lie nice and flat on your model especially if like me you are doing full color high-detail decals that look like freehand painting.
God I LOVE Illustrator!!!
Now I have to get some pictures and load them into photobucket
-
Yes do this....and also get some battle report in. :::cheers:::
-
printing decals for my Spacewolf force today I got a better color Laser printer so the printing on the decals will be crisper and not bleed like the last crap I had done.
after recent experience with it I highly recommend Micro sol for softening the shoulder decals to lie nice and flat on your model especially if like me you are doing full color high-detail decals that look like freehand painting.
God I LOVE Illustrator!!!
Now I have to get some pictures and load them into photobucket
Use your Roland!
-
oh the roland is for big stuff, and not mine anyways. (that was the printer at the place I was doing practicum placement) nah I'm going to be using my Samsung color laser and printing on Tamiya decal paper. I'll be doing two of these one with a white background and one with a clear background. The clear background is going to be full of cool viking art to be applied to all of the vehicle open spaces. While the white background one is going to be the actual heraldry of the great wolf's great company with a difference that the wolf will be bearing a long handled Dane axe. Losenge escutcheons of the insignia to be put on my land raider, rhino's, razorbacks, and drop pods, as well as the 3 land speeders. different for each vehicle will be a banner scroll in the lower third of the lozenge naming each, in runic font of course.
-
so I lost all 3 games of 40k we played this weekend.
Can't decide if it was either a) bad luck (stunning lack of "hits" on the battlecannons, my plasma squad failing a melee check as they were about to unleash 7 plasma shots in a unit of grey knights, etc) b) the armies not scaling properly at 750 points with a 4x4 board or c) I suck.
I'm not really sure about chimeras. We had some discussion about moving/shooting rules.
They can move 6 inches and fire one of their guns, and the squad inside can fire their guns, but count as moved.
But if they move more than this the squad can't shoot?
Can Chimera's move 12 inches, disembark the squad, and then the squad shoot but counting as if they moved?
I don't like having the squads in Chimera's because there is a reasonable chance if they get shot they wont be able to shoot back, plus if the vehicles explode, all the models inside die.
Also, the hatch placement is so annoying! losing 3 inches of range, or having to expose your rear armour.
deep striking incinerators = sad times for imperial guard. Auto killing weapons teams is lame!
-
...my plasma squad failing a melee check as they were about to unleash 7 plasma shots in a unit of grey knights, etc)
What's a melee check?
b) the armies not scaling properly at 750 points with a 4x4 board or
Very possible.
c) I suck.
From my personal experience you don't.
I'm not really sure about chimeras. We had some discussion about moving/shooting rules.
They can move 6 inches and fire one of their guns, and the squad inside can fire their guns, but count as moved.
But if they move more than this the squad can't shoot?
Yes.
Can Chimera's move 12 inches, disembark the squad, and then the squad shoot but counting as if they moved?
Yes.
I don't like having the squads in Chimera's because there is a reasonable chance if they get shot they wont be able to shoot back, plus if the vehicles explode, all the models inside die.
Nope. All the models inside get a S4 hit. Perhaps you'll have to disembark to be able to shoot back if the Chimera is shaken/stunned, but having a ride is almost always better than footslogging. Trust me.
Also, the hatch placement is so annoying! losing 3 inches of range, or having to expose your rear armour.
deep striking incinerators = sad times for imperial guard. Auto killing weapons teams is lame!
That's why weapon teams not embedded in a squad aren't very popular. Too fragile.
-
Rufus the cheater!
We played it as if the vehicle was stunned/shaken, the squad inside was as well
And also if it moved more than 6 inches and dismebarked, they couldn't shoot.
I didn't really see the point in Chimera's
melee check = morale check which I typed wrong.
and we also did play a s4 hit, but it still kills quite a lot of a squad.
-
Don't think Germans do hyperbole, Finlay.
And why did they take a morale check just before firing?
-
they got shot and 4 lasgun dudes died- failed morale check, ran off the table.
-
So it wasn't just before unleashing death then.. ok.
-
Rufus the cheater!
We played it as if the vehicle was stunned/shaken, the squad inside was as well
It is! Unless it disembarks. Magic!
And also if it moved more than 6 inches and dismebarked, they couldn't shoot.
That was indeed wrong.
I didn't really see the point in Chimera's
I hope you do now.
:-D
melee check = morale check which I typed wrong.
and we also did play a s4 hit, but it still kills quite a lot of a squad.
Yes, it's nasty. Strangely, Space Marines handle it better when the car they're sitting in explodes than puny, ordinary humans.
:wink:
Still, explosions aren't all that frequent. And you have reserves! Endless reserves of manpower.
-
"Hi, I was playing Imperial Guard against Grey Knights and he out numbered me..."
is not often heard, that is true.
-
So it wasn't just before unleashing death then.. ok.
yes it was! the grey knights deep struck, scattered right infront of my plasma dudes, then shot them up and made them flee.
The next thing which they were going to do was plasma those fools.
@ Aldaris:
Well I knew they must be good because everyone takes them! but the way we were playing they were a bit pointless.
I guess explosions arent that frequent, they just happened in every game we played. Stupid incinerators!
-
So they were going to Plasma the guys that weren't there?
Time does not work that way!
-
oh the roland is for big stuff, and not mine anyways. (that was the printer at the place I was doing practicum placement) nah I'm going to be using my Samsung color laser and printing on Tamiya decal paper.
I decided quite arbitrarily that I'm going to make a suit of samurai armour using various Roland machines. It'll be awesome.
Also I painted most of these and sentinels are freaking awesome.
(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll277/mogsam_moogle/DSC00600.jpg)
(http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll277/mogsam_moogle/DSC00603.jpg)
-
"Hi, I was playing Imperial Guard against Grey Knights and he out numbered me..."
is not often heard, that is true.
Which in all honesty is probably why Finlay lost. :-D
Finlay, you need to practice more with Chimeras. What guns have you given yours? My five have a 3/2 split in hull heavy bolters/heavy flamers, all have multi laser turrets. This allows me to assign different designs to my pillbox squads compared to my advancing chimeras.
Never ever disembark from the chimera just to get shots off. Guardsmen die so very quickly without their iron coffins. Possible exceptions against tau where melee is actually winable. Not grey knights. Even if you have vets festooned with plasma weapons, you kill a few knights, then lose your expensive squad to revenge shooting. Best to stay in your tank and not shoot for a turn. The chimera has relatively strong frontal armour for a transport, but poor and very long side armour.
They way to look at it is this. If you go outside of the tank, you have a very high percentage chance of small arms murdering your whole unit. If you stay in it, only heavy weapons have a chance of scratching the tank from the front. Then you only have a 1 in 6 chance of it exploding killing your guys. Even if it does blow, its 3s to wound, 5s to save, you shouldn't lose all your squad, and with wound allocation rules, noone armed with anything decent should die!
Battlecannons are very unreliable in my experience. I have lost count of the amount of times they shoot my own tanks when the blast scatters a long way. If you have an executioner, wheel that out vs Grey Knights. They love super heated plasma.
-
I don't understand why you think I was outnumbered. I had 50 men, 2 chimeras and a tank. Rufus had either 25 men, or 20 men, 2 rhinos and a dreadnought.
And I also don't understand why Whitey thinks I wouldn't have been able to plasma his grey knights?
If you don't disembark from them, they are hardly very manueverable, if you want to shoot. And if I exposed the ginormous side and rear armour vs the deepstriking list, they just got incinerator'd and psycannon'd.
And against the non deep striking list, the dreadnought has a 50% chance of penetrating a chimera a turn by firing into its front armour, and the 2 other psycannons can have either what, 50 or 25 chance each themselves.
And if a psycannon is 21-24 inches away, it can shoot the chimera, but I can't shoot it, because the hatch is 3 fucking inches behind the chimera!
-
Also, I don't think you can say "never disembark, ever"
the thing with the Grey knights, especially with the deepstriking squads, was that i'd kill 3-4 of each squad. but then the dude with the incinerator/psy cannon/thunderhammer would be alive, and was the one which could do all the damage.
If you had to disembark your squad to get our 7 rapid fire plasma shots, plus lasguns, to kill the last 2-3 men from a squad, i'd do it.
especially the teleporty ones, who in both games survived only with the incinerator, then teleported behind my lines and batter me with flames of doom.
Plus, if you get stunned/shaken and can't move, and you're in assault range of a thunder hammer, you may as well get out and try and shoot them.
-
If you don't disembark from them, they are hardly very manueverable, if you want to shoot. And if I exposed the ginormous side and rear armour vs the deepstriking list, they just got incinerator'd and psycannon'd.
So? If you disembark when you don't need to, your squads get incinerated. If you stay inside it's just a tank you lose, and your dudes survive to return fire. The Chimeras primary role is keeping your dudes alive by making them unshootable for as long as possible. Rather miss a turn of shooting to have all the odds on your side next turn. If you want to close: advance the full 12" and then pop smoke. You can't shoot, true. But you now have a 4+ cover save for your ride, and if someone feels lucky and charges your tank will only be hit on 6's. Next turn you're in a good position to either shoot out of the hatch or disembark somewhere. You can also tankshock. Nice tactic with 2 Chimeras: number one tankshocks in a way that'll force the enemy squad to cluster up to one side. Number two drives up and fires up the heavy flamer.
Plenty of nice stuff you can do when mechanized, but it takes a while to really grasp it all.
And against the non deep striking list, the dreadnought has a 50% chance of penetrating a chimera a turn by firing into its front armour, and the 2 other psycannons can have either what, 50 or 25 chance each themselves.
That's why this dreadnought is very good. But you have smoke launchers, Luke. Use the smoke launchers! And if you don't go first, deploy in a way that'll give you some cover.
And if a psycannon is 21-24 inches away, it can shoot the chimera, but I can't shoot it, because the hatch is 3 fucking inches behind the chimera!
Yes. Whawhawha. So? Guard is still king. Hail to the king, baby!
:::cheers:::
-
Drivebys are so much fun in 40k.
Nowadays though, since playing Eldar I much prefer killing people in melee, I'm not sure why.
-
Not really a drive by, more like drive a bit near them, get out and shoot, then leave yourself vulnerable.
-
Not really a drive by, more like drive a bit near them, get out and shoot, then leave yourself vulnerable.
Yes, because you always do it in situations where if you get out you'll be shot yourself with no chance of survival, every single time. Of course you'll be bloody vulnerable, you work to minimise how vulnerable. Use the vehicle's superior movement to shield the shooting unit from the other enemies, wait till they're all engaged, present way to many viable targets for the priority to be obvious to the other guy.
I used to play mech CSM, Rhinos made excellent blocks against enemies trying to get into melee with my guys, or just from shooting them. I'd often drive a rhino inbetween two enemy squads and disembark on one side to open up on one, whilst the other couldn't see me to shoot/was at least heavily blocked in vision for cover, or presented enough of an obstacle to prevent them going around it and assaulting me.
When it comes to assault, always remember to enforce that the enemy cannot go within 1 inch of your models during the movement phase. People forget this with infantry and vehicles all the time, it's how fish of fury worked. That 1 inch bubble around the tank made going around -much much- harder (you ignore this in the assault phase, but you still can't go into base contact with anything not the assault target, Assaulting Multiple Units rule disregards this).
Whilst I agree with Aldaris and Crimson, in that you should keep your squads inside most of the time, knowing when to get out and how to do it helps. I'd probably very rarely release Guardsmen from their Metal Boxes myself.
To be fair I'm not so sure on playing at 750.
-
I wasn't disagreeing with any of the advice given, just the name itself.
It's not a drive by, if you just stop and get out.
-
No, but it is when you shoot out of the hatch.
:wink:
-
Because an actual drive-by would be slooooooooooooow, using the 40K rules: move 6", shoot. Next turn drive off 12". Or: move 12", get out, shoot. Next turn get in again, and move 12"
Yes, you can actually drive further if you get out of your car and back in again, than if you don't. Just like in real life!
On another matter: I quite want to read the inquisitor eisenhorn trilogy. Am I ill-advised to do so? Are 40K books always terrible? Has anyone actually read any?
-
Perhaps my wording of never disembark ever is slightly wrong. What I am trying to get acrosss is that unless the circumstances are absolutely fantastically in your favour dont do it.
Sure you can jump out of your chimera to shoot with all your plasmaguns. Just remember once you do, you are very very likely to die next turn. If you stay in the chimera the worst that will happen is that they will destroy your tank with shooting, meaning you can still shoot next turn with your plasma weapons, but you have survived an extra turn.
There are situations where getting out makes sense. I can't tell you what they are, as it depends on how the game is flowing. What I will suggest is that if you are not 100% sure it is a good idea, then it is usually better to stay inside the chimera.
I am unsure why 21-24 inches is an issue really for the chimera, it can move a lot faster than infantry, and it does have the ability to fire two heavy weapons of its own, out ranging psycannons. Remember, if you inflict enough wounds on the squad, the special weapon guy is taking an armour save, and he could theoretically bite it.
In smaller points games, I would probably leave the chimeras behind. You would be better served by using cover and buying more soldiers or heavy support choices I think against grey knights. If you hide your plasma squad in cover, you can buy them a veteren upgrade of camo cloaks etc to keep them alive longer as an alternative option.
-
On another matter: I quite want to read the inquisitor eisenhorn trilogy. Am I ill-advised to do so? Are 40K books always terrible? Has anyone actually read any?
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=10731.msg498647#msg498647 (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=10731.msg498647#msg498647)
It ain't Shakespeare, but it's easily on par with other popular, non-40K popcorn novels. Entertaining and fun.
-
Because an actual drive-by would be slooooooooooooow, using the 40K rules: move 6", shoot. Next turn drive off 12". Or: move 12", get out, shoot. Next turn get in again, and move 12"
And with a -1 to BS for holding your lasgun sideways, yo.
-
And some noise marines chained on top with their ghetto pardon git blaster.
-
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=10731.msg498647#msg498647 (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=10731.msg498647#msg498647)
Ha, I didn't even think to look there! And I had even replied to that post. Thanks.
I read somewhere else that it is about a guy who tries to do his best to fight evil, but is gradually corrupted anyway. It sounds fun! Like Anakin Skywalker without the bad acting and embarrassing Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
And with a -1 to BS for holding your lasgun sideways, yo.
Definitely.
-
Well Eisenhorn is more like Vader than like Annnnniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!
-
I'm quite tempted to use my Heresy Miniatures 'Dwarf Vader' model as an inquisitor.
http://www.heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_9_35&products_id=27
-
That would be splendid, I think you should give him a squad of squats.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YzN61WBOcSQ/TSIE06qa61I/AAAAAAAAAKs/4-_MTtOiEgU/s1600/Squat-infantry.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YzN61WBOcSQ/TSIE06qa61I/AAAAAAAAAKs/4-_MTtOiEgU/s1600/Squat-infantry.jpg)
-
if there was, for example, 3 grey knight teleporter dudes from a squad left, one with incinerator, one with psycannon, and one with thunderhammer- who haven't used their 30inch free move- I definitely thinks it's worth getting out to blast them!
Especially if you can disembark in some woods or something.
Also Chimera's don't move a lot faster than infantry, they move between 0 and 5 inches a turn faster.
Because an actual drive-by would be slooooooooooooow, using the 40K rules: move 6", shoot. Next turn drive off 12". Or: move 12", get out, shoot. Next turn get in again, and move 12"
And with a -1 to BS for holding your lasgun sideways, yo.
brap brap brap!
-
if there was, for example, 3 grey knight teleporter dudes from a squad left, one with incinerator, one with psycannon, and one with thunderhammer- who haven't used their 30inch free move- I definitely thinks it's worth getting out to blast them!
Maybe. Or just point your plasma guns at 'em from the hatch if you can get into 12" with your normal 6" move. The thing is: if you don't wipe them out after disembarkng, the single guy with the incinerator is going to maul your vet squad on foot. Let's see how likely you'll wipe them: 6 shots, 4 hits, 3.something wounds. Lasguns: 12 shots, 8 hits, 3 wounds (1 gets through). If they're exposed they're likely dead, but not by a large margin. If they have any kind of cover, one will likely survive. It's a gamble. If you don't kill 'em from the hatch, you're still fine. He first has to open the can before he can get to the meat. If you're already out, you're dead.
In fact, I lost the last game I played with my CSM because I took a gamble and disembarked too early.
Especially if you can disembark in some woods or something.
That won't really help you, as the GK player will just gleefully assault. Who needs shooting to finish off a couple of Guardsmen in the open? Besides, Incinerators don't care about cover.
Also Chimera's don't move a lot faster than infantry, they move between 0 and 5 inches a turn faster.
Which is very significant? With an average run roll they're 11/2 times as fast, with a bad one nearly double. Above all, it is reliable. Hoping for good run rolls is not a good basis for a strategy. Footslogging is viable, sure. But there's no denying the utility of transports.
-
Eisenhorn is ok James, have read the trilogy twice. I have them if you'd like me to send them to you?
-
Can space marine tacitcal squads have multi meltas?
-
Yes, they can. Tricky to make good use of those though - in my experience multi meltas work better when mounted on vehicles. Do you have a plan?
-
despite my inability to grasp Chimeras, I'm looking forward to trying out a 1500 pt game next week.
I enjoyed it so far. I like the objectives, they feel a lot more balanced than the watch tower and banner games foe 8th edition fantasy which I don't really like.
I have a feeling it will be more like 7th edition fantasy, where I'd only win games every so often, not 8th edition where I win a lot more due to increased randomness, including game winning super magic.
-
40k has it's detractors too.
I enjoy it though, and my Eldar aren't even fully mechanised! (Only one Wave Serpent is used)
Thinking of trying a small unit of Harlequins soon, converted from Wyches. Considering they're no longer broken and are seemingly quite balanced now, I think I can get way with it. :icon_rolleyes:
With Doom up on an enemy unit, it'll be rended unto demise. Especially annoying MCs. Eventually though I plan to stop taking two Farseers (it was hilarious for a while), try out other HQs like the Avatar.
-
@ Finlay: good luck for your game next week, and I hope you continue to enjoy 40k. It's a fantastic game. What list will you be using?
@ MrDWhitey: Bah, detractors. Dumb people are everywhere.
:wink:
Harlequins, broken? Nah. Besides, don't you like the actual harlequin models? I think those are fantastic, amongst some of the very best sculpts (and paintjobs) GW has ever done.
-
Company command squad, power weapon, missile launcher. 75 pts
Platoon command squad, Autocannon, GL, 45
squad, GL, Autocannon 65
squad, GL, Autocannon 65
squad, GL, Autocannon, 65
squad, flamer 55 pts
squad, flamer 55 pts
Commissar with power weapon 45 pts
Vet squad, Chimera, 3 plasma rifles, missile launcher 185 pts
Vet squad, Chimera, 3 meltas 155 pts
6 rough riders 65
1 scout sentinels with autocannon (not a great choice vs grey knights!) 40pts
Hellhound, multi melta. 145
LRBT 150
LRD 165
Basilisk 125
1500 pts.
3 pie plates which give grey knights no armour save, a little bit of manuverability with the hellhound, 2 chimeras, and scout sentinel deploying as scout, and a small bit of close combat counter punch, if I can keep them hidden.
Company command power weapon is for fluff.
-
@ Finlay: good luck for your game next week, and I hope you continue to enjoy 40k. It's a fantastic game. What list will you be using?
@ MrDWhitey: Bah, detractors. Dumb people are everywhere.
:wink:
Harlequins, broken? Nah. Besides, don't you like the actual harlequin models? I think those are fantastic, amongst some of the very best sculpts (and paintjobs) GW has ever done.
Harlequins are part of why 4th was taken out back and shot. Nowadays they're not only balanced but perhaps considered "weaker" (though they really aren't).
My group however sometimes has people that claim things that aren't broken are. Only sometimes, it's quite rare, but most of them remember a certain Eldar player that ruined Eldar for everyone (and almost got me to stop playing 40k).
-
My group cries endlessly about Nobz. I too time to paint them with love and use them with hate.
-
That IG list looks pretty decent Finlay! I assume those two flamer squads will form a blob with the commissar?
-
Eisenhorn is ok James, have read the trilogy twice. I have them if you'd like me to send them to you?
Thanks Adam, that would be fantastic!
-
That IG list looks pretty decent Finlay! I assume those two flamer squads will form a blob with the commissar?
Thanks. I didn't like how static the list I chose for 750 points was.
Yep! not sure how useful it will be. Either- last ditch CC to kill small #s of grey knights, or just park them on my home objective?
If I put my company commander in a Chimera, would it effectively increase his order range, measuring from any point of the chimera instead of just his small base? Or would I measure from the hatch?
-
You measure from the chimera hull for orders. You measure from the hull for everything, apart from shooting.
50-man squad, meet purifiers. Each of them gets a wound on a 4+ at the start of combat...
-
You measure from the chimera hull for orders. You measure from the hull for everything, apart from shooting.
That's so annoying! super conductor plasma siphons.
rules question: Could a Hellhound fire its flamer out in a way to hit the side angle of a dreadnoughts armour, even if it was in the front arc? or would it count only as front arc.
Fluff statement: we've decided on a bit of fluff for our next game.
The Kaledonian 312th were formed to fight off Dark Eldar piracy in the sector. They've managed to defeat the eldar, and the company commander has retrieved some sort of artifact which he wants to keep to use against any more pirates who turn up.
Jame's xenos inquisitor likes alien technology (hence the converted Tau drone plasma servitors) and is using his inquisitorial powers to declare my Company commander a heretic- even though he actually only cares about getting the artifact for himself.
-
The bastard! Wanting to nick forbidden Xenos tech off a respected... Oh.
:-D
Concerning the Hellhound question: You only check the arc the shot originated from. So no sneaky sidearmor hitting I'm afraid.
@ rufus: I think (hope?) he only intends to blob up the flamer dudes, not the three AC/GL squads.
-
Dreadnoughts have the same side armour as on the front anyway. 12!
We want the guard commander to use a dark eldar weapon or force field or something. But we don't know what dark eldar have. Any ideas?
I think (hope?) he only intends to blob up the flamer dudes, not the three AC/GL squads.
Oh. I was assuming it would be like one of those mental internet lists with ginormous guard squads that presumably take all day to move.
It would be so funny to burn them all with purifier powers!
Also: psycannons for the purifiers and incinerators for the knights, or the other way around? Purifiers want to get into combat, and blasting a squad with incinerators can mean you end up outside assault range after the flaming stops.
Also also: grey knights strike squad intending to deep strike - two five man squads to get two Ld9 2 attack champions, or one squad of ten for more flexibility?
?
-
I'd gegerally prefer Psycannons over Incinerators in almost any circumstance. Remember you have combat tactics, so you can split up full ten man squads! For example, if you have a 10 man strike squad you could give both Psycannons to one section and keep the Sarge with the Demonhammer in the other. Applies even more to Purifiers.
As to DE wargear - there's the shadowfield. Costs as much as three of Finlays meltas and gives the wearer a 2+ invulnerable save! But only until he fails one. As soon as he fails one it switches off. Fun!
Or the Agonizer. Costs 2 meltas, and is a power weapon that always wounds on 4+.
-
I know psycannons are always better, but I only have two of them. That won't be changing!
I was thinking of two purifier squads of five in rhinos, each with psycannon, hammer and three halberds. Then two five man strike squads with incinerators and one halberd each. The strikers will deepstrike!
I think it's better to do the strikers as two squads, since I won't ever want to deepstrike a ten man squad (impractical!), and if I take two squads I get a free champion.
Maybe the shadowfield would be best for the commander then? He's got his own powersword.
It won't save him from the Vindicare anyway...
-
Company command squad, power weapon, missile launcher. 75 pts
Platoon command squad, Autocannon, GL, 45
squad, GL, Autocannon 65
squad, GL, Autocannon 65
squad, GL, Autocannon, 65
squad, flamer 55 pts
squad, flamer 55 pts
Commissar with power weapon 45 pts
Vet squad, Chimera, 3 plasma rifles, missile launcher 185 pts
Vet squad, Chimera, 3 meltas 155 pts
6 rough riders 65
1 scout sentinels with autocannon (not a great choice vs grey knights!) 40pts
Hellhound, multi melta. 145
LRBT 150
LRD 165
Basilisk 125
1500 pts.
3 pie plates which give grey knights no armour save, a little bit of manuverability with the hellhound, 2 chimeras, and scout sentinel deploying as scout, and a small bit of close combat counter punch, if I can keep them hidden.
Company command power weapon is for fluff.
This list looks quite decent. There is really only one thing I don't really understand, which is the missile launcher on the vets who have plasma weapons. What is its purpose Finlay? If it is anti tank, a lascannon would be a better buy for the squad, or if its anti marine, you would probably be better taking a plasma pistol on the sergent.
-
I'm having second thoughts about my plasma drones. Yes, they are cheap plasma cannons... but do I even want plasma cannons? Especially when the inquisitor has to sit with them to prevent them going to screensaver mode. And maybe they wouldn't want to shoot at the same things as the space monkeys in the same unit, which will probably be firing their lascannons most of the time. So it would be a whole load of expensive, immobile weapons in a bucket fighting over which target they have to go for.
edit: so what, they are cool.
-
You Imperials are all so silly. I think us Eldar should send another Hive Fleet or two knocking.
-
I'm having second thoughts about my plasma drones. Yes, they are cheap plasma cannons... but do I even want plasma cannons? Especially when the inquisitor has to sit with them to prevent them going to screensaver mode. And maybe they wouldn't want to shoot at the same things as the space monkeys in the same unit, which will probably be firing their lascannons most of the time. So it would be a whole load of expensive, immobile weapons in a bucket fighting over which target they have to go for.
That loadout certainly isn't "optimal", but it isn't bad either. Most of the time you'll shoot those lascannons at vehicles, and if it isn't AV14 those plasma cannons can hurt it too. Not their preferred target, sure... but with Multimeltas there's a significant range conflict, and with heavy bolters there's hardly any target synergy. You could go for MMs and spend a turn driving into range while popping smoke I suppose...
I spent quite some time going over possible servitor/space ape combinations as well when the codex came out (10 points servitors seemed too good to leave at home) but never came up with anything that was completely to my liking. Plasma Cannons is the best choice I guess, but it's also the only one that costs extra.
-
I guess you want the plasma servitors if you were fighting marines or something.
Everyone just spent 2 pages telling me to basically never move my chimeras, then when I use one as a pillbox, people tell me there's no point!
It's there to kill dreadnoughts and rhinos in the first few turns when the plasma is out of range. strength 7 is fine, but still need 5 to penetrate rhinos, or 6 for the dreadnought
I don't have any lascannon models, and would need to rejig points to fit it in anyway.
-
Appropriate video for this thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MeVxKZBOfM
-
Well this one was fun.....I am watching the starcraft one too now.
-
Everyone just spent 2 pages telling me to basically never move my chimeras...
You haven't been listening then, young padawan!
:-D
The argument was simply "think carefully before you disembark, often it's better not to - unless you have a very clear advantage. Use your APCs to keep your guys alive and shooting as long as possible and continue to use them actively even after you disembark."
The Missile launcher is good for the first turn because you'll usually have the firepower advantage and don't need to advance immediately. Maybe even for the second. But then you'll usually want to maneuver that Chimera, at which point the missile launcher becomes useless. It's still not a bad choice for those plasma vets, I often give them a heavy weapon as well to take advantage of that tasty BS4 - simply a question if you think the investment is worth it, because you propably won't get to use it for very long. I do it when I don't need the points for something else.
-
Everyone just spent 2 pages telling me to basically never move my chimeras...
You haven't been listening then, young padawan!
:-D
The argument was simply "think carefully before you disembark, often it's better not to - unless you have a very clear advantage. Use your APCs to keep your guys alive and shooting as long as possible and continue to use them actively even after you disembark."
The Missile launcher is good for the first turn because you'll usually have the firepower advantage and don't need to advance immediately. Maybe even for the second. But then you'll usually want to maneuver that Chimera, at which point the missile launcher becomes useless. It's still not a bad choice for those plasma vets, I often give them a heavy weapon as well to take advantage of that tasty BS4 - simply a question if you think the investment is worth it, because you propably won't get to use it for very long. I do it when I don't need the points for something else.
Nothing makes me laugh more than IG players who sit in their chimera the whole game as the enemy come steaming along right at them. They shoot and shoot away, and are too afraid to move because they will sacrifice shooting. They end up wedged into the back of the board or corner and only realize too late that they messed up. Of course I run 3 battle wagons and 3 trukks along with one or two KFF so I only need two rounds to clear the distance.
-
I just don't think having a missile launcher in there is that bad an idea!
plus It's not like I have loads and loads of extra models, or tank or artillery variants or anything.
-
I just don't think having a missile launcher in there is that bad an idea!
I just said it isn't a bad idea... didn't I?
:icon_question:
-
I would stick with plasma since by the time you need to move, the 12" range will still hit something.
-
I just don't think having a missile launcher in there is that bad an idea!
plus It's not like I have loads and loads of extra models, or tank or artillery variants or anything.
Its not a bad idea, it just makes the unit more flexible, which is not normally something I consider a good thing with imperial guard. If it works, stick with it. I appreciate not everyone has loads of model options!
I try to keep my mech infantry in their iron coffins, but I tend to have at least half my infantry on foot, as I don't own enough chimeras to give everyone a transport. This is because I usually field around 90 infantry at 1500 points, along with a lot of tanks. You can use chimeras to screen your foot infantry too, giving them a mobile cover to advance.
Defending with your whole army in the back field is not usually a good idea. With two of the three mission types involving objectives, you need mobile troop units. This is what you should ideally be using your chimera for doing.
-
Deepstrike!
Boooom!
Also, I'm amused by the idea of my Vindicare outflanking and shooting things with his magical sniper pistol.
Also also, I want to get some terminators. Even if they seem a bit useless.
-
I'm going to be re-tooling my Space Marines. I think I will try to field at least 3 tac squads and 1 or 2 small scout squads. I'll post pictures, because I seriously need to finish painting this army. It's the simplest scheme ever, and it's taking way too long. The problem is I keep thinking about changing my scheme.
-
What color are they?
-
I know the feeling - I'm getting urges to Chaos-ify my Imperial Guard...
-
Right now they're black. Some of them have red on them too. :engel: The basic scheme is black with red. I'm thinking of switching to green with white, or straight yellow with blue (not Imperial Fists).
-
I know the feeling - I'm getting urges to Chaos-ify my Imperial Guard...
Mogsam nearly convinced me to make Imperial Gors. Luckily, I am very poor right now so cannot undertake that particular project.
-
Sell homeless people's organs. Buy toys!
-
Sell homeless people's organs. Buy toys!
You know homeless people who play the Organ?
-
One.
He was quite good until the bus hit. Now he just plays a toy xylophone.
-
One.
He was quite good until the bus hit. Now he just plays a toy xylophone.
(http://www.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/data/500/thread_derailed.jpg)
My work here is done.
-
Right now they're black. Some of them have red on them too. :engel: The basic scheme is black with red. I'm thinking of switching to green with white, or straight yellow with blue (not Imperial Fists).
Well, I think black and red look nice!
It's pretty hard to paint space marines in green or yellow without having them look utterly ridiculous.
-
It's not exactly fair to the thread when we're both working towards the same goal is it?
-
It's not exactly fair to the thread when we're both working towards the same goal is it?
I'll tag team a thread with ya anytime. :engel:
Right now they're black. Some of them have red on them too. :engel: The basic scheme is black with red. I'm thinking of switching to green with white, or straight yellow with blue (not Imperial Fists).
Well, I think black and red look nice!
It's pretty hard to paint space marines in green or yellow without having them look utterly ridiculous.
The black and red looks nice, it's just boring to paint. I would enjoy the challenge of the yellow I think. I'll do a test model to see what I think.
-
I would enjoy the challenge of the yellow I think.
Good luck!
Would you do the vehicles yellow too? I'm trying to imagine a yellow rhino.
-
I would enjoy the challenge of the yellow I think.
Good luck!
Would you do the vehicles yellow too? I'm trying to imagine a yellow rhino.
Yep.
-
(http://myimages.bravenet.com/358/854/538/0/IFRhinoFinal.jpg)
-
Always nice to see some well done imperial fists.
-
Always nice to see some well done imperial fists.
Even better to see them dead, preferably via clean cut power weapon wounds. Large bullet holes and cracks are so crude looking!
-
My orks enjoy using them as decoration on their wagons.
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/orkraider4.jpg)
-
I dig that conversion, Philly. :icon_cool:
-
Thanks Gnu!
Here it is full of boyz!
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd138/ThePhillyT/orkraider7.jpg)
I had fun with it. I had a spare standard landraider and had just bought a new crusader. I don't use normal land raiders, only three crusaders since they are dedicated transports and work well with my 3 predator annihilators.
-
Orcs have landraiders?
It looks good though, in as much as a landraider is capable of looking good!
Also, I'm not convinced by that yellow rhino, even though it's well done.
-
Orks have landraiders?
Orks have what they damn well want.
Dey takes it all, and dey loots it.
-
I can't believe you corrected my spelling!
I used a 'c' on purpose, because it's better. So there!
-
I like distinguishing between the orc and ork through the letter.
-
I like distinguishing between the orc and ork through the letter.
And also, unlike rufus, it would make you correct!
-
I have moral superiority though.
Orc orcs orcs orcs.
-
Orks are the greatest creation of GW.
-
I like their robots that look like angry dustbins.
-
I like their robots that look like angry dustbins.
You've reminded me of a quote from a friend
"Why is the angry shed shooting them?"
It was about Germans in a bunker shooting some American troops. I think Angry Dustbins can be elevated now to the Angry Shed plinth in my mind.
-
Hurrah!
My work here is done.
-
I have a question!
Orks or Space Wolves?
-
What the hell kind of question is that?
-
What the hell kind of question is that?
One where I already know your answer!
You and your green fetish.
-
Looking to play with?
Though I am obsessed with Orks, I will say I love the Space Wolf fluff. But I detest the models. They are complete garbage with only one or two exceptions.
-
Looking to play with?
Though I am obsessed with Orks, I will say I love the Space Wolf fluff. But I detest the models. They are complete garbage with only one or two exceptions.
Sort of, I'm kinda close to penniless due to being forced to buy a new PC as this laptop is failing (sorry about Space Hulk!), so I was planning to do a swap of some kind with models I don't need for one or the other of the aforementioned.
Also, really? I quite like the Space Wolf models.
-
Which ones? The newest models are good, though there are very few. The kits are not all that impressive. I actually struggle with the painting scheme. Tough to make it look like you tried with that armor! I am a Black Templar man to the bone.
-
Orks are the greatest creation of GW.
(http://creativetwilight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Orks_are_made_4_rokkin.jpg)
I think we can all agree on that.
-
No, I think not.
-
As usual, you are wrong and Welsh.
-
Sorry Whitey, Sheep weren't invented by GW.
-
Orcs only play slide guitar, if that picture it to be believed.
-
Orks are the greatest creation of GW.
I think we can all agree on that.
Not according to Relic Entertainment.
(http://www.playnewgames.info/wp-content/uploads/Warhammer-40000-Space-Marine-Announced-For-PC1-4e559b2663b94.jpg)
-
Then you are forgetting Dawn of War.
-
Put a helmet on, baldy!
So, does anyone actually use inquisitorial psyker henchmen? Ld8 and they all dies immediately if you get perils of the warp... but they can make a S10 AP1 large blast at 36" range. Worth the risk, unless you are playing eldar or tyranids or something else that messes with your psychic tests?
I can't decide if I want to use them or not.
-
So, does anyone actually use inquisitorial psyker henchmen? Ld8 and they all dies immediately if you get perils of the warp... but they can make a S10 AP1 large blast at 36" range. Worth the risk, unless you are playing eldar or tyranids or something else that messes with your psychic tests?
I can't decide if I want to use them or not.
Eldar and Nids are seriously bad news because they make perils more likely, stuff like the Psychic hood just defends (but you can stay out of range). I'd give them a go. They aren't that expensive after all, put some in a chimera and you have a nice artillery tank. Perhaps not optimal, but definitely very playable.
-
Not sure how the rules work for them, but I know primarus psyker squads in chimera for IG can be a pain in the ass for short periods of time. If you get anything in their face though they evaporate.
-
They aren't that expensive after all, put some in a chimera and you have a nice artillery tank. Perhaps not optimal, but definitely very playable.
Or put them in a rhino, which saves some points. And add a random warrior acolyte so there's someone left if they do get a perils of the warp result. So 124 points minimum for a S10 squad.
But if I include them, I have to drop another squad that might be more generally useful. I'd probably have to drop my melta/bolter henchmen squad. Would that be a good trade?
It's really hard to make a 1500 points list!
Not sure how the rules work for them, but I know primarus psyker squads in chimera for IG can be a pain in the ass for short periods of time. If you get anything in their face though they evaporate.
They are different to the guard battle psyker squads: lower leadership, no perils protection, and no LD-drain power. But their attack power is far better: S3+1 per psyker after the first, and AP6-1 per psyker after the first (instead of random AP).
So they are a nasty blast of doom that might not work at all, or might melt their own brains.
-
I like the psyker model that looks like he has a killer headache. He's all like: "You guys, shhhhhhhhh! I got totally wasted last night and you're being too loud!"
This one:
(http://www.bastaic.com/wfb/fey/pics/psyker1.jpg)
-
I'm not using those!
-
You should. And sculpt dark sunglasses on him, and empty beer cans on his base.
-
I would buy that model.
-
Not according to Relic Entertainment.
(http://www.playnewgames.info/wp-content/uploads/Warhammer-40000-Space-Marine-Announced-For-PC1-4e559b2663b94.jpg)
I never saw a dreadnought in the game! Additionally, he's shooting a S4 weapon at walker with AV 12. That's just silly.
-
Now now Patsy, that is a Kan with AV11. Don't be silly. ANd yes, it is still going to be completely ineffective.
-
He's using Psybolt Ammo.
-
It's loaded with UltraBolter Ammo. It's the same as regular Bolter ammo, but painted blue. It is therefore Strength 100, automatically kills all Tyranids or Orks on the field, and gets your mom pregnant every time it is fired.
-
Just played a 3 way 40k in 40mins, my eldar (some Dire avengers in a wave serpent and some harlequins) versus a tyranids (brood of termagaunts, a brood of hormagaunts, a brood of genestealers and some tyranid warriors) versus some grey knights (2 normal squads, 4 psycannons each and 1 purifier squad, 2 psycannons)
Game started off with some sniping, 2 grey knights squads moving to me whilst the purifiers gun down some tyranids. I direavenger one GK squad to death (bar leader, who charges, kills one, makes them flee, and then is missile launchered by the serpent). Tyranids are being gunned down mercilessly, lose both gaunt broods and then hide behind a building for the rest of the game.
Harlequins dance on the spot opposite the genestealers until the genestealers retreat behind the building, so the harlies decide that grey knights are bad for business and go kill them all.
The end.
3kp to me (all the GK)
2kp to the GK (both gaunt broods)
0kp to the Tyranids (they hid)
-
This weekend I had a game against the new sisters of battle book. Not buying WD, and not having read any of the book, I had no real idea what I was against. So with this in mind I used chaos, as my list is fairly stable, it generally works okay and I know how to get the best out of them. Also, and quite importantly, I wouldn't have to go searching around for my models, as I had the boxes with them in out already :-D
My list was:
Daemon prince, MON, wings, Warptime
10 Chaos marines, Icon of Khorne, champion, power sword 2x melta, taxi
10 Chaos marines, champion, power sword, melta & plasma, taxi
9 Thousand sons inc sorceror, bolt of change, taxi
5 plague marines, 2x plasma, taxi
2 Oblits deep striking
1 dreadnaught, pair of DCCWs
1500
Sisters of battle list, I am guessing but it looked vaguely like this [dont know names of things].
2 squads of 10 sisters, champions with power weapons, melta guns, some banner things
2 squads of 5 flying ones, 2 of them had twin melta pistols, champions with power swords and meltabombs
10 celestines led by cannoness
10 chainfist women, led by a priest
1 missile launcher tank
1 rhino
1 tank with a twin multi melta
heavy weapons team with 2 multi melta and 2 heavy bolters
We ended up with the two objective mission and table quarters for deployment. We always get table quarters! In the end it was a draw, although only because my opponent had some faith ability to rally units way below rallying strength that I didn't know existed, so he was able to reclaim an objective on turn 6 and by that point, I had no units in range of the unit to kill it on what turned out to be my final turn.
The sisters list was more or less as it used to be, the main difference being how faith now works. The missile tank thing seems horribly over effective, but my opponent didnt roll less than a 4 for its missiles, and for three turns he rolled 6s. Ap 1 high strength missiles, are a nightmare.
-
On the subject of psykers again: I think I might put five of them with my plasma cannon drones. Five psykers make a S7 AP2 large blast, just like a giant plasma cannon.
Synergy-tastic!
-
On the subject of psykers again: I think I might put five of them with my plasma cannon drones. Five psykers make a S7 AP2 large blast, just like a giant plasma cannon.
Synergy-tastic!
Good idea! That's potentially a lot of hits with 3 small and 1 large template.
-
The only issue is in what order to fire them I guess :-D Pie template second to mop up survivors?
-
Getting there with my Reviler SM list i think, what do you think?
Captain - power weapon
Command squad - 2 flamers, apothacary, vet sarge with PF - razor with TL Assault cannon
tactical squad - combi melta, melta, ML - rhino
tactical squad - HB - rhino
tactical squad - HB - rhino
2 land speeders with MM
2 land speeders with MM
2 land speeders typhoons & HB
Whirlwind
2 predators destructors, no sponsons
Is that about 1500pts?
-
I don't have the army book, but I think that might be a bit over 1500 points Adam.
I like the composition though (especially all the speeders). Even if it's a bit short on fighty stuff, and whirlwinds are apparently not so good these days.
tactical squad - HB - rhino
tactical squad - HB - rhino
No special weapons for these squads? I think you can get a flamer for free.
Anyway, take pictures of stuff as you get it painted. The ones I saw looked fantastic.
-
not enough troops, for the objective missions?
-
Canīt he split them up to have 6 troop choices?
-
30 marines could be plenty for objective missions, or very few, depends on local gaming group.
I usually see either 3x 10 tactical marines and a scout squad or 4x 10 tactical, so thirty isnt that much worse. You may struggle to win if there ends up being 5 or 6 objectives though.
-
Can scouts have rhinos? Or is it storms only for transports?
Don't think I can face another ten marines.
-
I'm pretty sure scouts can't have rhinos.
I have six troop choices in my 1500 point list.
-
I cant say I have ever had 6 troops choices in 1500. My guard only have 3! Admittedly that works out as around 8 units though :-D
-
3 Tac Squads is plenty, this gives you 6 troops choices if you combat squad, which you will want to do almost always (except in KP missions) anyway.
-
if you combat squad, which you will want to do almost always (except in KP missions) anyway.
Really? But then half of them have to walk. Is it just so that you can leave the heavy weapon behind and rhino rush with the special and the champion?
-
Really? But then half of them have to walk. Is it just so that you can leave the heavy weapon behind and rhino rush with the special and the champion?
Indeed!
That's why Razorbacks are often chosen for Tac Squads.
-
but how unfluffy is having 10 marines and only transport for 6! What do they hang on the outside. When did they change the rules. you used to onlt be able to take a transport they all could get in.
Can Scouts go get Rhinos. I was a totally mechanised force. Can LS storms carry 5 scouts and what are they ,dedicated transports?
-
but how unfluffy is having 10 marines and only transport for 6! What do they hang on the outside. When did they change the rules. you used to onlt be able to take a transport they all could get in.
Can Scouts go get Rhinos. I was a totally mechanised force. Can LS storms carry 5 scouts and what are they ,dedicated transports?
LS Storms can indeed carry 5 scouts, and no, as far as I know Scouts can't take a Rhino. Can't look it up at the moment though. Can't even tell you if it's possible to take as a dedicated transport or if it'll eat a FA choice.
-
Scouts can't take a Rhino and the LS Storm does eat fast attack. It can't be dedicated unfortunately.
I only use 20 tacticals at 1500 and haven't run into any problems yet. You only need to control one and contest the others, and anything can contest. Early days though, only played about 20 games. Tacticals have almost no killing power and marines aren't going to outnumber anyone so I don't see flooding a table with high priced troop choices to be very viable when you'll still be outnumbered on troops, and definitely out gunned. Chaos for example uses lots of troops because their choices are really solid - probably the best part of what looks like a pretty bad book. IG and Orks speak for themselves, etc.
-
Yeah, troops are were Chaos has at least some solid options (although regular CSM are very lackluster and Noisemarines are at the very least overpriced. Just like Thousand Sons unfortunately.).
Concerning Space Marine troops, some scouts in a Storm can be a good choice depending on your style of play. Give the sarge a fist and watch 'em beat up support units like Devastators or tanks. You can also pinpoint deepstrike some Termies there if you give it a beacon.
-
I know my Wolf scouts can't take storms, I'd love to equip them with one though. Serious badassery. especially if I take another 3 LS missile gunboats. oh well their other rules are pretty damn good already.
-
Yeah, troops are were Chaos has at least some solid options (although regular CSM are very lackluster and Noisemarines are at the very least overpriced. Just like Thousand Sons unfortunately.).
Concerning Space Marine troops, some scouts in a Storm can be a good choice depending on your style of play. Give the sarge a fist and watch 'em beat up support units like Devastators or tanks. You can also pinpoint deepstrike some Termies there if you give it a beacon.
I don't mind CSM, or Thousand Sons. My army used to be entirely 6 man noise marine units in 3rd edition, but now they are probably at least 5 points a model over costed when armed with a sonic blaster. I tried to get them to work for me, but really, its never going to happen in the current book. I think the price for the Blastmaster is even more ludicrous.
Regular CSM get good options [2x special weapons], although they are expensive due to not getting free sergeants like Marines do. Missing "and they shall have more special rules [ATSKNF]", combat squads and combat tactics is a bit of a kick in the teeth, but the bolt pistol/ccw, cheaper points cost and better leadership is not all that terrible.
Thousand Sons are very much dependant on the type of table you play on. If you have sparse cover they become a lot better than they do if everyone is already able to wander around with cover saves. If you put an objective in the open, you will struggle to find a much better unit to remove enemies and indeed hold it than Thousand Sons.
If you do have lots of cover, you may as well swap Thousand Sons for Plague Marines, who benefit a lot more from it.
-
And considering the game is sorta designed for lots of cover at the moment... no Thousand Sons!
Our local Thousand Sons player used the GK codex now. :engel:
-
Regular CSM get good options [2x special weapons], although they are expensive due to not getting free sergeants like Marines do. Missing "and they shall have more special rules [ATSKNF]", combat squads and combat tactics is a bit of a kick in the teeth, but the bolt pistol/ccw, cheaper points cost and better leadership is not all that terrible.
Didn't say they're terrible, they're lackluster. Some reasons you already mentioned, another would be the terrible Icon system where a squad loses the Gods favor as soon as the bearer dies. Cult troops are just so much better. Doesn't mean I don't play regular CSM, I use them a lot anyway.
Thousand Sons are very much dependant on the type of table you play on. If you have sparse cover they become a lot better than they do if everyone is already able to wander around with cover saves. If you put an objective in the open, you will struggle to find a much better unit to remove enemies and indeed hold it than Thousand Sons.
If you do have lots of cover, you may as well swap Thousand Sons for Plague Marines, who benefit a lot more from it.
Since almost all 40K tables have (and should have!) a lot of terrain TSons aren't all that useful. I played my squad of nine for a very long time before deciding they just weren't worth an investment of almost 300 points.
-
I agree with your points Aldaris, I was just trying to bring a bit of balance to the discussion :-D
I rarely take icons, although the IoK sometimes makes an appearance, as in my last list. It is only as hard to kill as a champion and most of the time, you can avoid allocating wounds to that model. Most of the time I field two ten man CSM squads, one armed for long range, one for short.
I used to use T.Sons a lot more than I do these days. They used to be used all the time, but I find they make only around quarter of my lists these days. Sometimes it is nice to use them, I like the models. The real crippler is the vast cost the sorcerer is, especially with a compulsory power.
Relentless ap3 bolters are good weapons though! Just need a bit of planning, like putting objective markers in the open, to get the most out of them.
Chaos are not a top list, but I find they are relatively simple to build strongish lists. The real problem is there are only a handful of great choices in the list, Daemon Prince, Plague marines, Obliterators and possibly terminators. Most of the others are sub par compared to regular marines.
In a lot of ways I think chaos are lucky that cult troops come from troops, and not elites, as this allows you to build an effective list with just troops choices.
-
Agreed. If the Cult troops were, say, Elite that 'dex would be utter rubbish. As it is it's "only" sub-par, especially when it comes to (effective) variations. I love it anyway.
-
I loved the 3rd edition dex more! No love for the Legions in this current dex, although the rumours I have read regarding the 6th edition Chaos dex suggests they may be getting a come back!
-
Yes, I'm really looking forward to this. About damn time too.
-
I heard they were redoing all the space marine army books before they redo chaos.
-
I heard they were redoing all the space marine army books before they redo chaos.
To be honest Rufus, it wouldn't surprise me if all 1000 chapters got an army book before Chaos got a new one. I don't understand why chaos marines get the short end of the stick, and why all the far far more varied chaos legions are represented by a single book, yet the loyalist chapters somehow need five or six different books, when well over half of the unit choices are identical in most of the books!
While I know space marines sell more, blah blah blah, they wouldn't sell any less if they had just one book, and if needs be something like Codex Craftworld Eldar, to have a couple of pages per chapter to switch about some force organisation charts and introduce unique units.
-
The 4th ed Chaos dex was fine. It was fun, thematic and so on. Not too sure about the power level but whiners on the internet seem to pine for it. A return to that style should be imminent anyway with Gav Thorpe, Destroyer of Fluff gone from the studio.
-
While I know space marines sell more, blah blah blah, they wouldn't sell any less if they had just one book, and if needs be something like Codex Craftworld Eldar, to have a couple of pages per chapter to switch about some force organisation charts and introduce unique units.
Yes, they don't really need their own army books. You can tell it was a real struggle to fill up the fluff section of the blood angels book, for example!
-
Its okay Rufus. I have been working on some fluff for "Codex Generico Marines" who happen to specialise in laspistol warfare. I have several great stories of them teaming up with Tyranids to fight traitor guard and another even more stupid one of them teaming up with Dark Eldar to fight Tau :-D
-
Great!
I'm looking forward to their release! I'm sure no one is anxious for a new Tau book or anything like that.
-
While I know space marines sell more, blah blah blah, they wouldn't sell any less if they had just one book, and if needs be something like Codex Craftworld Eldar, to have a couple of pages per chapter to switch about some force organisation charts and introduce unique units.
Yes, they don't really need their own army books. You can tell it was a real struggle to fill up the fluff section of the blood angels book, for example!
But then how would they power creep to convince Space Marine player to buy Orks, and then to buy all new Marines for their Blood Angels, and then Dark Eldar, and then Grey Knights?
-
Do people genuinely buy whole new marine armies when they move from codex ultramarines to codex blood angels? Rather than just using the same models, except for the unique units?
Id be surprised if most people do!
-
I would definitely use the same models! A space marine is a space marine.
Grey knights are only different because they have awesome double bolters and magic halberds. And better hats.
-
A blue Space Marine is not a Blood Angel, and a Red one is not a Space Wolf.
-
A blue Space Marine is not a Blood Angel, and a Red one is not a Space Wolf.
The joy that is thousands of manbabies screaming "SUCCESSOR CHAPTERS!" in unison.
-
Or just that the colors you paint something have nothing to do with the rules you use!
-
Or just that the colors you paint something have nothing to do with the rules you use!
How very unfluffy of you rufus.
I am most pleased.
-
Oh, good!
-
A blue Space Marine is not a Blood Angel, and a Red one is not a Space Wolf.
The thing is you can paint your models whatever colour you like! A blue space marine can easily be a successor chapter. You might have more difficulty convincing people this is valid if you use special characters or chapters which are themselves successors [Black templars I am looking at you here]
If you paint your army as blood angels, then decide you want to try out ultramarine rules, you can have the Angels of Blood [see what I did there :)] chapter of codex marines!
-
The thing is you can paint your models whatever colour you like!
Exactly!
There are probably some crazy people who would insist that Grey Knight purifiers have to have white helmets, just because the ones in the pictures in the army book do. But they are wrong.
-
Indeed they are wrong!
I myself would do the white helmets though, because I like how that looks. Simple as that really.
-
I didn't because then I couldn't use the same models to represent strike squads and purifiers.
And because I can't paint white things very well.
-
I didn't because then I couldn't use the same models to represent strike squads and purifiers.
And because I can't paint white things very well.
Both good reasons for not painting white IMO :-D
-
I'd be painting them a creamy bone colour I was forced to perfect (and then never bothered to use) on my red eldar.
Fortunately, it seems someone is buying my ogres so Grey Knights are looking likely....
-
Your army promiscuity disgusts me.
-
Your army promiscuity disgusts me.
Thank you. My goal is to eventually go to my club, and play anyone there that day, safe in the knowledge they're fielding an army I painted/or sold to them.
I'm already about half way there.
-
There is a guy in Soths club who can truthfully make that boast several times over.
:wink:
-
Lucky them, I cant imagine selling an army of my painted models, and quite frankly I doubt anyone would want them!
I also tend to use bone/dhenab stone as a replacement for white. It is a lot easier to work with, and I use white for final highlights. Sure it is a little dirtier, but looks more gritty.
Quick rules query for the eldar players on here. Swooping hawks can hit vehicles on 4s with grenades, does this apply in hand to hand against dreadnaughts? My first thoughts are no, but one of my group was trying to claim that they can.
-
"In assaults, they never require worse than 4+ to hit vehicles"
A Walker is a vehicle.
Go check the rulebook to see what it says, I'm off to get needles stuck into me.
-
But the walker rules say you can only grenade them on a six.
Conflict?
-
But the walker rules say you can only grenade them on a six.
Conflict?
No, why would there be? The Walker rule is a general rule, just like the one that says vehicles that moved more than 6" are only hit on 6's. The one MrDWhitey is referencing is a special rule circumventing those.
-
But the walker rules say you can only grenade them on a six.
Conflict?
That is my view Rufus. The walker rules specifically state you need 6s, where as the hawks grenades specifically state they need 4s. Obviously the eldar player is going to want 4s, and the walker player will want 6s.
I suppose that you could argue that the army book overrules the rulebook, but it isn't clear, which is why I was asking it here!
-
I suppose that you could argue that the army book overrules the rulebook, but it isn't clear, which is why I was asking it here!
Why isn't it clear? Would you argue that they hit, say, speeding skimmers on 6s then?
-
I guess I assumed it only applied to speeding skimmers and other fast vehicles Aldaris, rather than walkers which have their own specific rule. I use eldar, so anything to make Hawks better I am hardly going to disagree with.
-
I guess I assumed it only applied to speeding skimmers and other fast vehicles Aldaris, rather than walkers which have their own specific rule.
Both are vehicles, both have specific rules in the rulebook regarding cth in close combat. Swooping Hawks negate those by giving them a cap of 4+ on their to hit roll. I really don't see the controversy.
:::cheers:::
-
Eldar FAQ on the GW site:
Page 35 Intercept.
The last sentence should be changed to:
In assaults, they never require worse than 4+ to hit
vehicles that do not have a WS.
I don't know if that refers to swooping hawks, since I don't have the book, but it looks relevant!
-
Eldar FAQ on the GW site:
Page 35 Intercept.
The last sentence should be changed to:
In assaults, they never require worse than 4+ to hit
vehicles that do not have a WS.
I don't know if that refers to swooping hawks, since I don't have the book, but it looks relevant!
Intercept is the swooping hawks ability. So I guess it is relevant. Thought it might be too good to be true, actually having a use for them!
-
Yeah well, THAT settles it then.
:-D
-
GW probably thought they were too overpowered with that ability. :eusa_wall: Eldar have long suffered from the nerf bat and unless either Matt Ward or Phil Kelly writes the new book, it will probably continue.
-
GW probably thought they were too overpowered with that ability. :eusa_wall:
:icon_lol:
Eldar have long suffered from the nerf bat and unless either Matt Ward or Phil Kelly writes the new book, it will probably continue.
Ah, come on. Eldar are still good these days, definitely in the upper half of armies regarding power. If they'd get an update that's one bandwagon I'd jump in a heartbeat though.
-
They deserve it for being space elves!
-
GW probably thought they were too overpowered with that ability. :eusa_wall:
:icon_lol:
Eldar have long suffered from the nerf bat and unless either Matt Ward or Phil Kelly writes the new book, it will probably continue.
Ah, come on. Eldar are still good these days, definitely in the upper half of armies regarding power. If they'd get an update that's one bandwagon I'd jump in a heartbeat though.
Its all gone downhill from 2nd edition though. I have all the army books from then back to now, and I can honestly say it used to be a lot better. I would far rather use the 3rd ed book than the 4th too!
What eldar need is aspect warriors that are actually better than bog standard marines. WS/BS5 and initaitve 5/6 would do for a start, even if it means boosting their points. Also, no excuse for bs3 on guardians, none! Space elves should have bs4!
-
Its all gone downhill from 2nd edition though. I have all the army books from then back to now, and I can honestly say it used to be a lot better. I would far rather use the 3rd ed book than the 4th too!
What eldar need is aspect warriors that are actually better than bog standard marines. WS/BS5 and initaitve 5/6 would do for a start, even if it means boosting their points. Also, no excuse for bs3 on guardians, none! Space elves should have bs4!
Don't they all have space cancer? Isn't that what makes them a dying race? Or Space AIDS?
-
No they have that disease where you die of wearing funny helmets.
Just give them ASF and they are fixed.
(I can remember the time when everyone feared the Eldar because they were so overpowered.....then....there came the Space Wolves).
-
Just give them ASF and they are fixed.
Is there no end to your villainy?
-
You can get me drunk with Leffe...I am pretty calm after that one.
-
Did the Eldar get Space AIDS from the Squats?
-
The squats were eaten by the Tyranids. Really.
-
They should have just changed the name.
Maybe they could return as yet another type of space marine! It turns out one of the primarchs was really short...
-
So the tyranids have space aids?
-
They should have just changed the name.
Maybe they could return as yet another type of space marine! It turns out one of the primarchs was really short...
Demiurg are space dwarfs, they appear in BFG as tau allies, and are supposedly going to be in the new tau dex!
-
So the tyranids have space aids?
Tyranids ARE space aids.
-
Demiurg are space dwarfs, they appear in BFG as tau allies, and are supposedly going to be in the new tau dex!
Excellent!
-
I am guessing they will be emphasising the dwarfyness of the units too.
I have read that they will get the following: axes [power and normal], heavy armour, relentless and them to actually be good in combat, unlike other tau units
-
bs5 would be a bit broken in 40k, given no to hit modifiers.
-
Assassins are BS8! They almost can't miss.
I definitely want space dwarfs. With conversion beamers and mole mortars!
-
bs5 would be a bit broken in 40k, given no to hit modifiers.
On hugely expensive dark reapers, bs5 would be fine. Especially given space marines can already get bs5 on one devastator, and marines are more armoured, more flexibly armed and have better statistics in general.
Aspect warriors SHOULD be top tier units if they matched their fluff. Small numbers of elite troops.
-
They are elite....compare them to the battle hardened super soldiers of the Imperial Guard who do nothing but figthing all day...and night...and during lunch break.
-
Guard vets are the same BS as Space marine super soldiers who live hundreds of years, and Eldar who can live thousands.
If a guardsman can get to bs4, it is not unrealistic to me to expect eldar aspect warriors, who study a specific niche area of warfare to be absolute masters to be miles better than guardsmen. BS/WS5 would be a realistic way to give eldar their elite status since they have typically low elvish strength and toughness.
Exarchs are the combined experiences and memories of every exarch who has worn the armour since it was created. They don't seem so special in statistics either.
-
You're probably right, though I don't think living longer necessarily makes you better at shooting.
Do any units have BS5 currently? Other than characters or venerable dreadnoughts or things of that sort.
As for WS 5, well, death cultists have that! I'd have thought some types of eldar would too.
-
I'm fine with eldar having BS4 for their heavy stuff, but the problem I have is that we have units with BS3. Guardians are currently overcosted and well, poo.
I still take them, as I painted up two squads to hide my two Farseers and have two warlocks for extra singing spear. Also more missiles.
Fire ze missiles!
-
bs 4 is fine across the board, ws5 fine for the fighty asect warriors.
I just think bs5 doesnt really work in the context of 40k.
-
bs 4 is fine across the board, ws5 fine for the fighty asect warriors.
I just think bs5 doesnt really work in the context of 40k.
I agree entirely. BS5 is just too good for basic troopers in my mind.
-
Edited due to redundancy.
:-D
-
Penal legion...
http://www.victorialamb.com/store.html
Notice the "Hello Clarice" mask? :icon_lol:
-
That one is a bit counterintuitive, why would you not want him to bite the enemy?
-
That one is a bit counterintuitive, why would you not want him to bite the enemy?
I suspect he will bite his buddies before that...
-
So? They're convicts! Besides, it'll only make them angrier, which is good.
-
You seem to have a bit of a commissar in you. :closed-eyes:
If I am the commissar...
-
I didn't realize commissars are so tiny...
:biggriin:
-
bs 4 is fine across the board, ws5 fine for the fighty asect warriors.
I just think bs5 doesnt really work in the context of 40k.
I agree entirely. BS5 is just too good for basic troopers in my mind.
Aspect warriors are not basic troopers. Look in the book/GW site, apart from Dire Avengers, they all come under elite, heavy support, fast attack. With this in mind they should not be worse than what other armies get in these slots. Now as they cant have strength and toughness 4, terminator armour, s8 powerfists etc, they need something.
BS5 for Dark reapers, even if it was because some wargear gave them +1 to hit like space marines, would not be over powered. At close to 40 points for a toughness 3 4+ save model, they need something. WS5 on Scorpions/Banshees would also be helpful.
BS3 guardians is not really good enough either. Dark eldar warriors have better BS, better choice of weapons etc. On the basic troops this isn't a massive issue, but on the tanks etc, it basically forces you to take a multiple shot weapon or miss on average half the game.
-
Actually, I do consider them to be basic troopers as they're pretty much what any list is full of (even Dire Avengers are an Aspect). Anything not a character should not have BS5.
Especially, especially in a Codex which has Guide.
Dark Reapers need a points drop and/or possibly weapons changing, not a BS buff. They were designed for a completely different era, where cover saves was just a dirty word.
WS5 is much more likely to be fair on melee aspects than BS5 on ranged aspects, simply because WS works far differently.
-
If aspect warriors are basic troops, what are guardians? Historically guardians filled the majority of eldar armies [back when shurican cats were not the worst basic weapon in the game and were s4 -2 save sustained fire] Aspect warriors are the elite troops of the eldar, on par with things like Incubi in the dark eldar book which ARE proper elite troops.
I would make dire avengers elites rather than troops. It doesn't make sense that you can field lists without any guardians.
If you don't give them BS increases, there needs to be some way to improve them. Or make them cheaper. There is a reason the incredibly lame 5 dire avengers and a wave serpent list exists.
Dark reapers could be cheaper, or better/different weapons. BS is just one of the things they could do.
-
Space elf guardians aren't BS4? I assumed they would be.
How old is the army book? Pre-5th edition?
-
Space elf guardians are bs3, just as they always have been. Only black guardians in 3rd ed had bs4. For some reason GW decide that space dark elf guardians are bs4 though.
-
Oh, that's weird.
-
I beleive the dark space elfs always had bs4 too, even in their unloved days.
According to the background space elf guardians are supposedly elfs who have already been on the path of the warrior. So its not like they don't know what they are doing.
-
Penal legion...
http://www.victorialamb.com/store.html
Notice the "Hello Clarice" mask? :icon_lol:
Id buy them if the exchange rate didn't own me. Same with the highanders
-
I'm going to play Finlay's guard army at warhamster world!
This is my list:
Xenos Inquisitor 3 servo skulls, power armour, force sword, psychic communion 72
Vindicare assassin 145
7 purifiers hammer, 4 halberds, 2 incinerators, rhino 221
5 grey knights psycannon, halberd 115
5 grey knights psycannon, halberd 115
10 henchmen 5 crusaders, 5 death cult, rhino 190
8 henchmen 3 plasma cannon servitor drones, 5 psykers, chimera 165
11 henchmen 3 melta guns, 6 bolters, 1 pistol/sword, jokearo, chimera 166
11 henchmen 3 plasma guns, 6 bolters, 1 pistol/sword, jokearo, chimera 166
dreadnought psycannon, incinerator 145
total = 1500
I know it's technically illegal (no Coteaz).
I'm going to do a photo battle report that no one will read.
-
I know it's technically illegal (no Coteaz).
But... but... UNDER GWs OWN ROOF! Have you no shame?
-
We've played there using my made-up campaign army lists for warhammer on multiple occasions! Even using non-GW models.
Ha ha!
-
I wouldn't just refuse to play you, I'd report you to the GW police for crimes against Kirby.
The penalty is likely death, and I will implore the sentencing Judge to go all the way to it. They will also quite likely melt down all your metal models, and turn them into Razorgors.
-
Im going to a tournament in the last weekend of august, actually i'm the coordinator, and here is my list:
My main problem is models, I don't have any dakka dreads.
1750pts of Grey knights
1 Grey Knight Grand Master (HQ) @ 195 Pts
#Terminator Armour; #Iron Halo; #Hammerhand; #Psychic Communion; Rad
Grenades; Pskyer (1); Nem Force Sword; Psycannon;
1 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (HQ) @ 40 Pts
#Carapace Armour; Rad Grenades; Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; 3 servo skulls
Inquistorial Henchmen Warband (Elites) @ 145 Pts
6 Death Cult Assassin @ [90] Pts
3 Melta Henchmen 42 pts
1 Rhino @ [40] Pts
9 Purifier Squad (Elites) @ 339 Pts
SB & Nem Daemon Hammer (x1);
SB & Nem Force Halberd (x6); Psycannon (x2); Psybolt Ammunition
1 Keeper of the Flame @ [26] Pts
SB & Nem Force Halberd; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Psyk-out
Grenades; Psybolt Ammunition
1 Rhino @ [40] Pts
9 Grey Knight Strike Squad (Troops) @ 295 Pts
SB & Nem Force Sword (x7); Psycannon (x2) Psybolt Ammunition;
Hammerhand; Warp Quake
1 Justicar @ [35] Pts
MC Nem Daemon Hammer; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Psyk-out
Grenades; Psybolt Ammunition
1 Rhino @ [40] Pts
4 Grey Knight Terminator Squad (Troops) @ 255 Pts
#Terminator Armour; #Hammerhand; Nem Force Halberd (x3); Storm Bolter
(x3); Psycannon (x1); Brotherhood Banner;
1 Terminator Justicar @ [45] Pts
MC Nem Daemon Hammer; Storm Bolter; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades;
Psyk-out Grenades
4 Purgation Squad (Heavy Support) @ 150 Pts
Incinerator (x4)
1 Justicar @ [20] Pts
SB & Nem Force Sword; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Psyk-out Grenades
1 Razorback @ [50] Pts
Psybolt Ammunition; TL Heavy Bolters
1 Land Raider Redeemer (Heavy Support) @ 255 Pts
Multi-Melta
Models in Army: 45
Total Army Cost: 1749
-
Get a cheap AoBR dread, and whack the guns from the Aegis defense line on him. Very cheap solution.
-
80 points for a devilfish, with no fire points.
Harsh.
-
1 Paladin Squad (Elites) @ 75 Pts
; Nem Warding Staff; Stormbolter (x1);
What is this guy for? Holding people up in combat by refusing to die? He doesn't seem very useful.
-
Excactly Rufus! Oh and remember he has holocaust, so he can deepstrike and put down a pie. Plus the Grandmaster can make him scoring.
I had 75pts to spare and well, this is where the grey knight codex fails. You cant realy get anything usefull for under 100 points.
Maybe I should get some melta hencmen instead? But then I have 33 pts to spare, which I cant really spend...
-
this is where the grey knight codex fails. You cant realy get anything usefull for under 100 points.
That's true! Maybe lone paladin guy is worth a go then.
That list looks very low on numbers to me. It will be interesting to hear how you do at the tournament!
-
Well I dumped him!
I added 3 servo skulls, 3 melta henchmen and a psycannon for the grandmaster. And the crusader got the boot, because of room problems.
I updated the list..
But i feel like im lacking some long range shooting.
-
80 points for a devilfish, with no fire points.
Harsh.
SO fast and pretty tough though. Devilfish are a nice little transport.
-
The servo skull is such a great concept. It's like an astromech droid, only grim and dark and in the future.
-
SO fast and pretty tough though. Devilfish are a nice little transport.
But they aren't fast vehicles. Just skimmers.
They would be cheaper if the Tau book wasn't a million years old.
But i feel like im lacking some long range shooting.
It's a grey knights list! Deal with it!
Doesn't the grandmaster's psycannon cost about 40 points? Expensive!
-
Doesn't the grandmaster's psycannon cost about 40 points? Expensive!
Yeah, but consider how good it is on him - he's wearing terminator armor so he can fire the thing as if he were stationary even when he moves, and he's got a very good BS.
-
I don't like to spend that many points on a character. I object to 100 for cortez!
If I were to use a grandmaster, I think I'd take all the special grenades. Blind, rad and psykotroke.
-
Oh yes blind grenades.... damn, i need to find 5 points now.
The psycannon sure is expensive, but as i said earlier, 40 or so points can't really be used in the codex. It sucks.
-
SO fast and pretty tough though. Devilfish are a nice little transport.
But they aren't fast vehicles. Just skimmers.
They would be cheaper if the Tau book wasn't a million years old.
Probably, but they are quite tough for a transport and the skimmer ability protects them from ramming and allows them to avoid dangerous terrain tests. I love them.
-
Yet both you and aldaris have never lost to tau.
Everything in the whole bookt is too expensive!
And they have special items for target priority tests.
-
You do make a good point.
-
To be honest, I played 'em only 2 or 3 times. But that was all with Chaos (which isn't considered a very strong 'dex itself) and I always totally clobbered them. The player was not very good though, so I have no idea what they could do in skilled hands, with a good list.
-
so I have no idea what they could do in skilled hands, with a good list.
You don't? Aren't you a friend of uber-player God Fandir? :icon_confused:
-
I beat the hell out of them with Black Templar and Orks, both armies are right in their bad matchup zone. Super in close combat with the ability to drop ferocious firepower.
-
You don't? Aren't you a friend of uber-player God Fandir? :icon_confused:
He is a deity of many things, but Tau are beyond his power.
-
ramming
Uh oh, do people actually use the ramming rules? I thought they might never come up, so haven't bothered to read them. Like with tank shock.
-
Oh yes. Read them. Many players don't use those very much, but both ramming and tankshocking can be really, really effective.
consider, for example, what a simple Dark Eldar Raider with a ramming prow and those 36" of movement can do...
-
Tank shocking is where you try to run someone over, but they get out of the way. Right?
It never worked in command and conquer either.
consider, for example, what a simple Dark Eldar Raider with a ramming prow and those 36" of movement can do...
Not playing them, don't care!
-
Tank shocking is where you try to run someone over, but they get out of the way. Right?
Yes. And they make a Ld test if they aren't fearless. If they fail, they flee. You can tankshock a unit several times. If you have an empty Rhino, drive it at something. It's always nice when a squad of devastators just runs off the table.
-
All of my battle wagons have deff rollas. Enemy vehicles get rammed with a AV14 vehicle and take an additional 1d6 S10 hits. Really very nasty. That's the best way for Orks to take out tough vehicles.
Aldaris: I often tankshock my way through units to ram vehicles. People end up tank shcoking me too, since orks often disgorge from vehicles and assault in hth against transports and the like.
-
I rammed a Valkyrie (that had not moved) with an empty rhino once. I don't know if that was legal, but my opponent said I could do it. I had visions of Die Hard 5 when Bruce Willis "Killed a helicopter with a car".
-
I don't think I want to play 40K dodgems.
-
No one forces you to use an asset you have. Just take it into account because it can (and propably will) be used against you at some point.
You can also use tankshocks to nicely bunch an enemy unit up for some template/flamer fun.
-
Orks and Dark Elves have specific upgrades that do good to great damage against enemy vehicles.
Cannon - Valkryies fall under the skimmer rules, so yes you can ram them, but he can avoid it using the skimmer rule.
-
Specifically, you get a dodge. Whcih everybody seems to fail, all the time.
It's a curse. Those Skimmers have all seen Die Hard 5 and want to reenact it.
-
3+ to dodge the ram!
-
Cannon - Valkryies fall under the skimmer rules, so yes you can ram them, but he can avoid it using the skimmer rule.
Okay, then that's what happened, cuz he rolled to avoid and failed now that I think about it.
-
Not where I am from but I make 4 - 7 rams attacks per game so there are plenty of opportunities.
-
3+ to dodge the ram!
It's like that marine sergeant with the power fist. He has a 3+ save as well, but he'll always fail his save when a wound is allocated to him.
It's a law of nature or something.
-
3+ to dodge the ram!
It's like that marine sergeant with the power fist. He has a 3+ save as well, but he'll always fail his save when a wound is allocated to him.
It's a law of nature or something.
A law of Murphy.
-
Pshhh... Murphy. It's Nuffle!
-
Pshhh... Murphy. It's Nuffle!
:biggriin: :::cheers::: :eusa_clap:
-
I played a 1500 point game against my friends grey knights, using what he calls a "highly experimental" list. In other words it was very silly.
GM with orbital bombardment ability
2x5 GKs each with a psycannon, all with psybolts
1 dread knight, sword
1 dread knight with the gatling gun
3x vindicares
He lasted 6 turns to be fair to him, but he had run out of models at the end. We ended up with objectives, 4 of them. With him only having two troops choices, my objective was to kill one of his, then take the three other objectives to win. By the end of turn 6, he had no models left at all, I had lost 2 rhinos, a single obliterator and 3 wounds off my daemon prince. Everyone else was still alive!
My list was:
Daemon prince, MON, Wings, warptime
10 chaos marines, champ w/pfist, 2x melta in rhino
10 chaos marines, champ w/pwep, plasmagun, lascannon in rhino
9 T.sons, sorceror w/doombolt in rhino
5 Plague marines, 2x plasmagun in rhino
1 obliterator
1 obliterator
3 terminators, 2x combi melta, chainfist.
-
Does anyone have close games of 40k? It just seems to be one way or the other.
Who can demech the other first!
Or can you demech him or not if you are shootier than him.
-
Does anyone have close games of 40k? It just seems to be one way or the other.
Often. Objectives is where it's at in 66% of all matches. It doesn't matter if you shoot him down to 2 models if both of those are troops and sitting on objectives. 40K isn't just about killing the opposing army.
Who can demech the other first!
Or can you demech him or not if you are shootier than him.
Ah, bah. Cracking transports and firepower is good and important, but so is positioning, clever play and prioritizing targets properly. And it is a sweet thing when a Squad of 8 Berzerkers contact 3 guard units and just pound them into the dust... CC is not as easy to pull of as pure shooting, but it can be very worthwile.
Besides, transports is not the only way to go. Mech is just the current "it" thing because of the more forgiving vehicle damage table in 5th edition and the mobility and survivability it grants. There are a couple of armies who can pull off pure foot builds rather well, or biker lists, or all deepstrikers... there's plenty of variety possible if you aren't looking for the 101% tournament only build, which, if I know you at all, is not your goal.
-
I love my Road Warrior style Ork build. 3 wagons and 4 trukks supported by a big unit of bikers. Looks great on the table top.
-
But when he has 6 troops, and i have 7, its quite hard to not have scoring units.
Only 1 game was close today, where rufus managed to kill what was contesting his objective and incineratored what was guarding mine on the last turn.
I think my ig list lacks a little flexibility. Which is why I guess a lot of people play space marines!
I don't think ig can pull off pure foot, deep strike, or bikers. And i feel two chimeras doesn't give me enough mobility to claim objectives really, especially when you roll 5.
Id like to have an al rahem outflankng smalk small mechanized pkatoon, plus a vrndetta!
I don't want to do orks as I don't want to paint so many people again.
And i love the dark eldar models, but don't think they'd be forgiving enough for me.
Quite like nids, but i thinkthe chances of getting shot before reaching cc are high, and then that's just the opposite of ig.
Quite fancy blood angel succession chspter!
Id like to play a game with a good ig advising me as I went.
-
Book Aldaris a flight. He will help you! If you were using orks I would gladly sit on the phone with you through a game.
-
What!? You are giving free consulting hours ? :D
-
If I ever played tyranids I don't think id have a single gun. Doesn't seem right.
-
Mech is not everything. It helps with objective missions as it makes you a lot more mobile, but it doesn't by any means ensure an automatic win.
Most of the games I play are actually draws. Objective missions are very hard to win if your opponent has a sensible well balanced list.
I agree with Finlay, two transports isn't enough to go for objectives. I tend to use 4 or more in the armies I field. This allows some casualties and keeps my army moving. It helps with the newer books, which have cheaper transports.
While my own armies do tend to be mechanised, my chaos army for example has very few long ranged anti tank. Usually just two obliterators and nothing else. I rely on hand to hand and close quarters shooting, which being mechanised helps with no end.
Nids can do shooting quite well. Having read their book, they have a lot of fairly decent shooting units. Far more than you would expect actually.
-
Tyranids have great medium to close range shooting and actually do far better in the long run going with a balanced HtH and medium ranging shooting build. I was the same way as Mogsam, I just didn't think it made sense, but having used all list types, I find that is the most balanced and enjoyable setup.
-
This just in: battle report reports battle!
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=39780.0
-
3x vindicares
But you can't have more than one of each type of assassin.
-
If I ever played tyranids I don't think id have a single gun. Doesn't seem right.
Shooting flesh eating bugs out of living guns into the arse of your opponents.
I donīt see anything wrong with that.
-
3x vindicares
But you can't have more than one of each type of assassin.
Hmm I thought there was something fishy about that list! Still, it was a terrible idea anyway :-D
-
Crimson, I find your lack of sig disturbing.
-
Going to do my first tournament practise today. 1750pts of chaos marines. With at least one lash whip and two vindicators.
My edited list:
HQ:
Grandmaster, Sword, storm bolter, rad nades.
Xeno inquisitor, Ccw, pistol, rad nades, 2 servo skulls.
Elites:
Henchmen. 6 death cultists, 3 melta warriors, Rhino
6 purifiers, 1 hammer, 3 halberds, 2 incinierators, Psyback.
5 purifiers, 3 halberds, 2 psycannons, Psyback
Troops:
10 greyknights, psyammo, MC hammer, 2 psycannons, Rhino.
5 terminators, banner, 3 halberds, 1 MC hammer, 1 psycannon.
Heavy:
Landraider redeemer, multimelta.
Dreadnought. 2 twinlinked autocannons with psybolts.
-
Does anyone have the dark eldar or blood angels codex?
In an entirely unrelated question, does anyone have a scanner?
I have the 40k rulebook, and tau and IG codexes.
in an entirely unrelated statement, I do have a scanner (and adobe pro, shrink files, shrink!)
:engel:
-
I don't have a scanner. In an entirely unrelated statement - I do have google.
And money, if I am interested in more than a casual browse.
-
Indeed, I have no problems buying the books if I am going to use the army, I just want to check out the rules before deciding.
-
In that case, google can be a avery helpful ally.
:wink:
-
Crimson, I find your lack of sig disturbing.
For a moment I was wondering if I accidently clicked into a different thread, and not the 40K thread, when reading this post. :icon_wink:
-
@CannonofDoom
I have not had a proper sig for ages!
@Mcknight
I am surprised people still use lash, especially with all the mech that runs around these days. I stopped once everyone started hiding in transports! Still, it is very nasty with vindicators :-D
I don't imagine your list will have too many problems against lash.
-
@CannonofDoom
I have not had a proper sig for ages!
I can't hold my tongue any longer! Can't you see that you're tearing us apart?!
-
If I ever played tyranids I don't think id have a single gun. Doesn't seem right.
Shooting flesh eating bugs out of living guns into the arse of your opponents.
I donīt see anything wrong with that.
Guns are for pansies. Also if you're going to rip of starship troopers do it properly.
-
More of a rip on Alien than Starship Troopers. Tyranids came out shortly after the second film. I am sure they pulled a little from the original books but the movie was probably a more realistic inspiration.
-
If I ever played tyranids I don't think id have a single gun. Doesn't seem right.
Shooting flesh eating bugs out of living guns into the arse of your opponents.
I donīt see anything wrong with that.
Guns are for pansies. Also if you're going to rip of starship troopers do it properly.
My close combat Eldar -are- pansies.
-
Yes..AND they kick ass.
Also if I remember correctly the bugs in Starship troopers have artillery bugs that .....shoot.
-
Genestealers were the aliens from Aliens. Tyranids arrived later.
-
That would make sense with the alien 2 thingy... i liked the symiont cult fluff .....much cooler than the Tyranid invasion strike force infiltrator gene stealer thingy.
-
Yes..AND they kick ass.
Also if I remember correctly the bugs in Starship troopers have artillery bugs that .....shoot.
Harlequins have still got it. Seeing them rip through pretty much everything is fun. I'm so glad I didn't play Eldar in 4th though, as I could never have lived through the shame.
-
Harlequins look pretty damn sweet too. Only issue I see with them is the lack of dedicated transport options, but then, I don't play Eldar. Do you run 'em on foot and rely on Veil of Tears and cover to keep 'em alive or do you buy a separate transport for them to use?
-
Yes..AND they kick ass.
Also if I remember correctly the bugs in Starship troopers have artillery bugs that .....shoot.
and a flamethrower one.
-
@CannonofDoom
I have not had a proper sig for ages!
@Mcknight
I am surprised people still use lash, especially with all the mech that runs around these days. I stopped once everyone started hiding in transports! Still, it is very nasty with vindicators :-D
I don't imagine your list will have too many problems against lash.
No problem! You just open the transports first or lure the enemy out! :P
I did well against him in my game, but he made a lot of rookie mistakes, so i need to practise against a more seasoned player. I had terrible rolls though.
-
Yeah it isn't difficult to crack open a transport. Armies need to be laid out to deal with heavy and light vehicles. My standard Black Templar army has three landraider crusaders and three predator annihilators. It ends up being quite capable of punishing most vehicles then finishing enemy units in CC.
-
Well, three Landraiders are a bitch to deal with for pretty much any army... The downside is that those 6 vehicles are a good deal more than half your points in a 2000 points army, and the prevalence of melta weapons in todays metagame could mean you're in for a rough time.
Interesting approach though! Something radically different, which I like.
-
That was what I was thinking....Melter should be decently able to get rid of even land raiders...or enter...the MULTIMELTER
-
Blood angels seem to be able to give their whole army FNP and FC pretty easily.
-
How would you know....have you bought the Codex? :engel:
and on an unrelated note does playing 40k make you more sulky than Fantasy (I remember I sulked too when Aldaris wiped the floor with my guard).
-
and on an unrelated note does playing 40k make you more sulky than Fantasy
It does for me!
I hate being fired on for about twenty minutes in turn one, before I get to do anything. To the extent that I'd rather put everything in reserve and not show up until late in the game.
-
and on an unrelated note does playing 40k make you more sulky than Fantasy (I remember I sulked too when Aldaris wiped the floor with my guard).
You sulked?
I honestly didn't notice. You're appear to be a very cheerful sulker.
-
How would you know....have you bought the Codex? :engel:
and on an unrelated note does playing 40k make you more sulky than Fantasy (I remember I sulked too when Aldaris wiped the floor with my guard).
yes. 40k makes me very sulky, and in fantasy I am almost never sulky (although I am very defeatist-y).
I was sulky when we played in Woking, and I was sulky the game after I had won in nottingham.
Shouting "waaaagh grishank" as I try to IF my vortex makes fantasy fun.
Me and rufus were wondering if it was because in fantasy you at least have turns 1-3 of moving up the battle line for the fight to be decided.
Whereas in our games either I blast enough in turn 1 to win, or I don' and I get slaughtered. which is probably partially not having enough transports, and partially my noobiness.
so I am now thinking of getting some dark eldar or blood angels. (and buying 2 more chimeras to round out my IG for now.)
and on an unrelated note does playing 40k make you more sulky than Fantasy
It does for me!
I hate being fired on for about twenty minutes in turn one, before I get to do anything. To the extent that I'd rather put everything in reserve and not show up until late in the game.
even if my shooting doesn't kill anything!
-
Whereas in our games either I blast enough in turn 1 to win, or I don' and I get slaughtered.
Bu-huuulshit.
Bullshit. Bull, bull, bull.
Bull.
You never finished a game... how do you know how the games would have even ended?
Say after me:
40K is not about losses.
40K is about missions.
I'm gonna pound that defeatist crap out of ya yet!
:::cheers:::
-
When I sulk I only grin and drink beer 80 % of the time.
Well if your whole army is dead it is quiet hard to achieve the mission objective ....I felt I killed stuff of you too but didnīt manage to kill your vehicles who in return...killed me.
-
Well if your whole army is dead it is quiet hard to achieve the mission objective ....
Stop interfering with my attempts at Finlay education.
:-D
It's also about prioritizing and eliminating threats. Killing a taxi and half the Berzerkers inside is nice, but 4 leftover Berzerkers are still plenty to beat up one hell of a lot of Guardsmen.
-
we only havent finished two games, one rufus conceded after 4 turns with almost nothing left, and one I stopped after 2-3 turns.
My list doesnt have enough flexibility for multi objective grabbing.
-
Well if your whole army is dead it is quiet hard to achieve the mission objective ....
Stop interfering with my attempts at Finlay education.
:-D
It's also about prioritizing and eliminating threats. Killing a taxi and half the Berzerkers inside is nice, but 4 leftover Berzerkers are still plenty to beat up one hell of a lot of Guardsmen.
which is also what happens when you fight grey knights.
Oh, you've killed all the squad except for one guy with an incinerator. Who is now going to kill an entire squad on his own.
-
Well I tried to kill the remaining 4 Berserkers too....well and that big spidery Mech thingy in German called Geisel, but failed due to bad rolls.
That said I think that there are loads of tactical options to reduce the I shoot you you shoot me thingy, more terrain comes to mind AND making use of those fog grenades every vehicle has...or going down into the dirt with troops once in a while.
-
which is also what happens when you fight grey knights.
Oh, you've killed all the squad except for one guy with an incinerator. Who is now going to kill an entire squad on his own.
Bah, a basic grey knight has two attacks on the charge, and the powerweapon isn't all that useful against Guardsmen.
And if you space your units properly that flamer will still hurt, but it certainly won't kill 10 dudes in one go.
@Fandir: the big Spider thingy is called Defiler in English.
-
Well, three Landraiders are a bitch to deal with for pretty much any army... The downside is that those 6 vehicles are a good deal more than half your points in a 2000 points army, and the prevalence of melta weapons in todays metagame could mean you're in for a rough time.
Interesting approach though! Something radically different, which I like.
That is a 2500 point list when you add a laser cannon razor back with a tactical squad.
I dont have much trouble with meltas. Regular meltas in squads need to get so close it wont happen. Multi meltas can rarely get within 12". The annihilators blast away for the first two turns while I sit at 24" and multi melta and assault canon the enemy Anything in transport gets popped. I can also assault anything within 18" that is a threat to the fire base. Its a pretty conservative list forces a lot of sacrifice to get into melta range.
-
You never finished a game
Yes we did.
Being patronizing is not helpful!
-
Yes we did.
I'm sorry, I must have overlooked that in all the "turn 3 - end" stuff.
:-D
Being patronizing is not helpful!
No, but it's fun! I'm twirling my mustache and everything.
-
Harlequins look pretty damn sweet too. Only issue I see with them is the lack of dedicated transport options, but then, I don't play Eldar. Do you run 'em on foot and rely on Veil of Tears and cover to keep 'em alive or do you buy a separate transport for them to use?
I've tried on foot with VoTs once, and it was terrifying watching the Grey Knight player roll the dice, praying for anything below 8 when I was 15 inches away. It saved them, but I didn't like it.
I've tried them in a Falcon once, and they felt invincible until they got out. 5+ invulnerable is nice, but not when you can't get Fortune off because he has a Librarian. Then I just have to rely on my insane ability to always roll 5+ when the only successful result is 5+. Which to be fair worked this game. Just as planned. Charged by the Dreadnaught with the talons that let it get extra attacks? Nope, all 5+ saves made. Harlequins hit and run and go kill the Death Company instead.
-
In other words, you were a lucky bastard and it somehow turned out OK?
:-D
That's awesome!
:::cheers:::
-
I've had people declare any dice I use as loaded/banned from club.
They've now cotton'd on to the fact the dice aren't loaded. I just have hilariously good rolling streaks/I'm Tzeentch, and now the club rule is all my 6s are 1s, and my 1s are 6s.
And twice now I've had Harlequins decide a unit/codex is bad and wipe it out by themselves.
-
Perhaps someday the luck will change and they'll wish they hadn't. :icon_wink:
-
Command Chimera 110
Storm Trooper Squad +5 men Melta x 2 185
Veteran Squad Plasma Gun x 2 Grenadiers Chimera 190
Veteran Squad Plasma Gun x 2 Grenadiers Chimera 190
Veteran Squad Plasma Gun x 2 Grenadiers Chimera 190
Sentinel Plasma Cannon 75
Sentinel Autocannon 60
Is this a semi competant list for near 1000 points? I've lost some guardsmen arms so I might have to change somethings...
-
the amount of silly internet vernacular for 40k is amusing.
Is it the same as fantasy? seems to be a lote more prevalent.
Also, are fantasy forums/blogs as whiny as 40k ones? Probably, with 7th edition demons!
Finally, can psycannons in "assault" mode fir rending shots? a blog I just read seemed to imply they only rent when fired in "heavy" mode.
-
Are space Marine bike squads effective in 40K? What if I want an army full of em? A Biker Army....
-Grutch
-
Bike Squads can actually be really good. I have one at the moment and want to expand it. If you take a Captain on a bike, bike squads 5 models and over count as Troops, so you can take a bike army if you want. Bike squads get two special weapons even on squads of 3, so you can pack a lot of really fast anti tank, and the attack bike addon is great.
They're fast, they're tough and they can get great cover saves even in the open (3+) from turbo boosting. A unit without a fist is going to get tarpitted by them, I love them.
-
Are space Marine bike squads effective in 40K? What if I want an army full of em? A Biker Army....
-Grutch
You can do a biker army, the White Scars chapter is one according to the fluff.
I'd mix in some none-bike support, but it is possible (and not even bad, from what I've heard. An opinion Sig obviously shares!).
the amount of silly internet vernacular for 40k is amusing.
Is it the same as fantasy? seems to be a lote more prevalent.
Yes, there is a lot of silly internet vernacular. 40K has a much larger competitive scene than Fantasy, perhaps that's the origin.
Also, are fantasy forums/blogs as whiny as 40k ones? Probably, with 7th edition demons!
Have you ever been to the Electors Forum...?
:engel:
Finally, can psycannons in "assault" mode fir rending shots? a blog I just read seemed to imply they only rent when fired in "heavy" mode.
They rend in both modes. Only difference is number of shots fired.
-
Command Chimera 110
Storm Trooper Squad +5 men Melta x 2 185
Veteran Squad Plasma Gun x 2 Grenadiers Chimera 190
Veteran Squad Plasma Gun x 2 Grenadiers Chimera 190
Veteran Squad Plasma Gun x 2 Grenadiers Chimera 190
Sentinel Plasma Cannon 75
Sentinel Autocannon 60
Is this a semi competant list for near 1000 points? I've lost some guardsmen arms so I might have to change somethings...
Stormtroopers are a waste of points, in my opinion. They are too expensive for what they do. Also they should get a transport, if you are bringing them.
-
the amount of silly internet vernacular for 40k is amusing.
Actually, I hate that. Talk properly, internet, or don't talk at all!
Finally, can psycannons in "assault" mode fir rending shots? a blog I just read seemed to imply they only rent when fired in "heavy" mode.
Ha ha, you wish they didn't rend all the time!
That's exactly the kind of thing you see on the internet about 40K rules all the time: attempting to twist the rules by interpreting them with a poor grasp of grammar.
Reading anything about 'competitive' 40K will melt your brain.
Is this a semi competant list for near 1000 points?
It seems rude to only take two special weapons per veteran squad when you are allowed three!
You may as well only take five stormtroopers with two meltas: the extra five guys won't do much for you.
-
we only havent finished two games, one rufus conceded after 4 turns with almost nothing left, and one I stopped after 2-3 turns.
My list doesnt have enough flexibility for multi objective grabbing.
This is what you need to fix Finlay. As you have a 2/3rd chance of objectives, it is best to build your army to do objectives rather than KPs.
-
Reading anything about 'competitive' 40K will melt your brain.
It seems rude to only take two special weapons per veteran squad when you are allowed three!
:engel:
-
I don't understand.
-
Nor do I but don't get clarification! HE is mad I tell you! Mad!
-
Quoting issues. Or one of you two changed it, which I also find highly likely. :closed-eyes:
-
Oh, it makes more sense now.
I don't think my statements are inconsistent though.
-
Are space Marine bike squads effective in 40K? What if I want an army full of em? A Biker Army....
There's a guy at my LGS who took an all bike army to a couple of RT tournaments and did very well.
-
Oh, it makes more sense now.
I don't think my statements are inconsistent though.
Indeed! My brain was melted, as you said it would be.
-
By plasma.
Though it's better to melt things with meltas, because they are more melty.
-
Yeah White Scars can be nasty in tournaments.
Ork bike armies are even better. The all get 4+ cover saves, 4 attacks on the charge, and twinlinked S5 AP5 heavy 3 shots.
-
I can't decide if battle bikes are an absurd or an awesome idea. Probably both, as with most 40K things.
Why don't space marines get jetbikes anymore? Except for that one dark angels guy on the flying boat that Finlay and I saw at warhamster world.
-
They replaced them with Trikes and Landspeeders.
-
But they always had landspeeders and trikes!
(http://www.solegends.com/citcat911/c2022smbikes-01.jpg)
-
Time moves on. Nowadays Marines have also stopped hitting people with simple wrenches.
-
Yes, they use chainswords that have exactly the same stats as a wrench.
I bet jetbikes will be back in the next army book anyway.
-
Yes, they use chainswords that have exactly the same stats as a wrench.
Well, yes - in return the wrench of the techmarine now has the stats of a powerfist.
:-D
-
the amount of silly internet vernacular for 40k is amusing.
Actually, I hate that. Talk properly, internet, or don't talk at all!
Finally, can psycannons in "assault" mode fir rending shots? a blog I just read seemed to imply they only rent when fired in "heavy" mode.
Ha ha, you wish they didn't rend all the time!
Reading anything about 'competitive' 40K will melt your brain.
I hate it as well, I just didn't want to say so because I'm trying to start less sentences with "you know what annoys me?"
Yes, I do! Well, I can keep dreaming.
I found a dark eldar blog, with beautifully painted models. But everything he writes is whiny. Specifically this really long post about how crap dark lances are.
we only havent finished two games, one rufus conceded after 4 turns with almost nothing left, and one I stopped after 2-3 turns.
My list doesnt have enough flexibility for multi objective grabbing.
This is what you need to fix Finlay. As you have a 2/3rd chance of objectives, it is best to build your army to do objectives rather than KPs.
I know, I just didn't really want to fill my list with chimeras veteran spam and vendettas. Partly due to cost.
Anyway, 6th is out quite soon, they might nerf transports again.
-
Dark Lances are crap? Don't they have the same stats as a Bright Lance?
This Deldar Player lacks balls and sense.
-
He says you need 25 dark lances to kill 3 vehicles a turn, which if you factor in cover means 1.5.
He was talking about competetive play, so I guess lots of fully meched IG (too many targets to dark lance) and grey knights (fortitude!).
It made me not want to play dark eldar!
-
He's a whiny tart who you should kick in the goolies, or should do if he ever had any.
-
Also, simple fix for Tau.
Increase all Tau units (not kroot or vespid) bs by one.
Done!
-
I hate it as well, I just didn't want to say so because I'm trying to start less sentences with "you know what annoys me?"
Perhaps ending them with it is an improvement.
:engel:
-
He says you need 25 dark lances to kill 3 vehicles a turn, which if you factor in cover means 1.5.
?
What kind of vehicle? Against Rhinos, 25 DLs will hit a bit more than 16 times, penetrate 8 times and do 2-3 glances.
That's not tooo bad... You don't need to wreck/explode everything to take it out of the game. Stunned will do nicely for a turn, thank you.
Dark Lances are basically like missile launchers, only they'll never have to face more than AV12.
And as far as I know no one is complaining that, say, Longfangs with 15 MLs are too weak.
Some people will complain about anything. Pay it no heed.
And most of all, don't be hounded by some armchair preachers into what you can and cannot do.
I don't own a single Obliterator and win far more games than I lose with CSM. If you listen to the Internet that should technically make the universe explode because it's so impossible.
That doesn't mean that there aren't things that are statistically better or worse than others, only that stats aren't the be-all, end-all.
And finally, show me an army that can do better than 25 S8 shots at 36" with BS4... Jeez.
-
Hey Finley,
You dont need just vets, chimeras and vendettas. Other units are capable of fulfilling objective missions, in just a different way.
For example, scouting walkers, can pop up and negate enemy objectives, even if they cant capture. If you use Alrahiem, you can scout an entire platoon.
Regular guardsmen can use chimera if you dont want to use vets. I often give chimera to my regular units.
Storm troopers can deep strike, they can invade enemy objectives.
Remember, you can interfere with them scoring their own objective with non troop units, you just need to ensure you actually have troops on your own.
Dark eldar are evil. The player in our group has virtually his entire army mounted in raiders. If you don't manage to kill most of them before they get you in hand to hand its game over with guard. He can easily aquire feel no pain too, negating a lot of their supposed weakness of being low toughness and armour.
I would avoid all competitive 40k sites for list building advice, although they can give you a reasonable idea of what is strong in a list. You tend to see what I call photoshop lists [eg the same thing repeated over and over in all slots]
Aldaris: Obliterators are great. But I agree with you, the internet will have you beleive it is literally impossible to win without them. I often play with just one, or maybe two in total. No where near the recommended 3x2 in my heavy slots.
-
Don't talk to the internet! You will only encourage it.
Also doing any kind of mathematical analysis prevents fun. I can prove this fact with numbers!
Also, simple fix for Tau.
Increase all Tau units (not kroot or vespid) bs by one.
And add space dwarfs!
they might nerf transports again.
But not too much, I hope.
I've decided I don't want an Imperial Guard army, because it's too boring to play. But it's OK, because I haven't yet bought anything I can't use with my grey knights.
-
Also doing any kind of mathematical analysis prevents fun. I can prove this fact with numbers!
I love you. Sometimes.
:happy:
-
Aldaris, he was talking specifically about killing vehicles, because fortitude is prevalent (I think close to 50% of tourney lists are grey knights) and imperial guard can take like 15 vehicles.
He says that the longfangs work better because they can kill tanks with melta (which they can get loads of) and powerfists, where as all that DE have are heatlances, haywire grenades, and dark lances.
Crimson, I didn't want scout sentinels because they'd just get psycannoned. But if they psycannond those, it saves chimeras/tanks i guess.
Al Raheim is too expensive I think, because you probably need to mechanise the whole platoon. and then you have chimeras with useless troops in them.
His argument was that its sometimes quite hard to get troops out so you can assault them.
But apparently DE normally finish well in tourneys. Maybe because good players are drawn to them. Or just because they are good and different.
BTW, I don't agree with him necessarily, just saying what he said.
-
Aldaris, he was talking specifically about killing vehicles, because fortitude is prevalent (I think close to 50% of tourney lists are grey knights) and imperial guard can take like 15 vehicles.
He says that the longfangs work better because they can kill tanks with melta (which they can get loads of) and powerfists, where as all that DE have are heatlances, haywire grenades, and dark lances.
And Blasters (nice job of him leaving those out).... and don't discount haywire grenades, those are awesome. Especially against a non-moving IG parking lot.
Besides, no min-maxing super duper tourney-list tweaker is going to take powerfists. Too expensive for them.
Don't believe that bullshit. Besides, how many GT circuit tournaments do you plan to participate in?
:wink:
But apparently DE normally finish well in tourneys. Maybe because good players are drawn to them. Or just because they are good and different.
Dark Eldar are very, very good, but also very unforgiving to play. They're the ultimate glass cannons.
-
I think close to 50% of tourney lists are grey knights
!
Really?
-
Don't believe that bullshit. Besides, how many GT circuit tournaments do you plan to participate in?
:wink:
Which is something important to note. You go to 40k blogs, Warseer or heaven forbid Bell of Lost Souls and -everything- told to you assumes you plan to go to GT/A big tournament and win big. Everything. Sometimes it's even done unconciously.
To a large segment of people online, friendly or non competitive play does not exist.
Disclaimer: You can be friendly and competitive, but it requires you to never go to bell of lost souls
Really?
Why is this a suprise? It's an extremely easy army to pick up and do well with (and small model count, easy to paint), though it has troubles with some specific match ups.
-
Why is this a suprise?
Because 50% is a lot.
Though having said that some warhammer tournaments were like that with demons.
-
This thread is locked, but it was responsible for the creation of a new Child Board! It is a mommy! Yay!