Topic: 40K

[Aldaris]

I do hope Tau arent too bad though, seeing as my bro just bought 200 quid of them for 67 including p and p.

Well, they are all right, but not very strong. They do have some nasty choices though and can be quite a tough nut if played well.

And if he doesn't like them, 67 quid isn't a very big investment and he should be able to recoup it at ebay.

[Finlay]

I think he's more into the look/feel.
Hopefully he can make them work, and also I just wont take a fully optimised IG list.


and they'll get a new book soon?

[Aldaris]

Still seems a ways off as I believe Necrons will be the next 'Dex to be updated.

And I so hope that the rumors about some kind of Chaos update early next year are true.

[Aldaris]

Incidentally, does anyone have a couple of Chaos Space Marine (or Space Marine, in a pinch) Power Fists he'd be willing to part with? I'm going to expand my CSM a bit and seem to have run out of those.

[phillyt]

yeah I have some marine ones laying around. Let me hunt them out to show you which. I think assault marines.

[phillyt]

It is no secret that the issue with the Tau is that they can't slow down armies that deploy average amounts of HtH units (which is most of them).  They do have very good shooting, though IG volume fire and Marine precision are better in the long run (though a Marine army fielding enough shooting to be better is not a very good army as a whole).

They are crazy manuverable.  I have trouble at times in objective games with them if the player has deployed the correct amount of Devilfish.  They haven't beaten me but they have nearly gotten a draw.

[McKnight]

Maxing out on rail guns and stuff should be the way to go. But I havent played against them very much.

[Aldaris]

The Tau armies that seemed most effective to me so far made good use of Heavy Support (with Hammerheads and Broadsides), fielded a large amount of suits (mainly Crisis) and for troops pretty much skipped the Fire Warriors and went Kroot instead. But I'm far from an expert with Tau.
Still, like PhillyT I haven't lost to them so far.

[Finlay]

It seems the consensus on the Tau forums is you need lots of FW, devilfish, crisis suits and broadsides, and basically not much of anything else.

I think surely some kroot would be useful.

[Aldaris]

They're sure good to form a (preferably layered) meatshield around your Broadsides and other elements that need ptotection from cc. You'll still get your ass handed to you by good assault troops from other armies, but they'll buy some time.

[McKnight]

The idea is excactly to get your ass handed to you in CC that that you get to shoot the enemy CC unit in your turn.
I think the trick is to have a mobile force that can move away from CC units while they are distracted by Kroot units.
But thats just my take on it.

[Aldaris]

Well, as I said I'm not exactly an expert with Tau - I can just say what's given me the most problems in the past. And as you say, Kroot bubblewraps, preferably 2 squads deep, are really annoying.

yeah I have some marine ones laying around. Let me hunt them out to show you which. I think assault marines.

That would be awesome! The loyalist markings should be easy enough to get off.

[phillyt]

I have piles of Black Templar fists too.  I have bought 7 conversion kits but varied my powerfists across the army using the commander fists, assault ones, and BT versions.  I have a few of those too.  I will let you know by tomorrow.  If shipping to Germany is less than $4 I'll eat the costs out of sheer love.

I am always disappointed when Firewarriors don't do much of anything.  I love the idea, but they are just a little too expensive making it hard to drop the number you need.

[Aldaris]

I have piles of Black Templar fists too.  I have bought 7 conversion kits but varied my powerfists across the army using the commander fists, assault ones, and BT versions.  I have a few of those too.  I will let you know by tomorrow.  If shipping to Germany is less than $4 I'll eat the costs out of sheer love.

Just let me know the costs and I'll handle it. Or I could have a look if I have something you might be interested in?

[phillyt]

We can make it an IOU since I have nothing I need currently but know that as soon as I dig back into my orks I will need something!

[Aldaris]

All right then!

I could take a look, I think I have 5 tankbustas somewhere that were gifted to me once and that are pretty useless to me, since I don't play Orks.

[phillyt]

Ohhhh, I smell an exchange coming on!

Start contemplating other things you need!

[Aldaris]

Hmmmm. Space Marine Missile launchers? Lotsa missile launchers. Preferably with armored arms, not the scout ones. How 'bout that?

[MrDWhitey]

GIVE ME BLACK TEMPLARS.

Also, my awful Eldar list took on my own Plague Marines and beat them into small piles of diseased goo.
 
It was most joyous. Daemon Prince cut down a one wounded wraithlord (which had soaked up many plasma and lascannon shots) only to turn round and get twatted in the face by another.

It got  to the point where the Wraithlords had pretty much killed all that could harm them bah plasma guns, and the other guy surrendered.

Amusingly my howling banshees did nothing, getting stuck in their Wave Serpent all game, but the threat of them was huge to the other chap, after what they did to Blood Angels last game (even though I repeatedly told him against toughness 5 it wasn't so sure, even with doom).

[Aldaris]

Nice going. I have decided to branch my Chaos dudes a bit and maybe make a separate Nurgle band (since I don't field Tzeentch and Nurgle in the same army). For now I've decided two just do one squad of Plague Marines and see if I like doing them. We'll see. I'd like to try Nurgle bikers at some point (expensive, but hey - T6 dudes are not to be sneered at) and those Blight Drones from Forgeworld sound interesting as well. Anyone have experience with either?

[Crimsonsphinx]

I have used Nurgle bikers a couple of times, once with a biker lord, once without.  I am not sure yet how effective they are.  Toughness 6 and good armour should be a lot better than I found them to be.

The biggest downside mine had was being assaulted by terminators with powerfists in both games.  Now I know this shouldn't happen due to speed advantages etc, but honestly I have no idea how in both games I managed it.  Powerfists waste toughness 6 as easily as toughness 4 so there was no real advantage to being that tough. 

They were being used as a very expensive screen unit, I figured I would get the most out of their high toughness, but it really didn't work for me.  I will just assume I played them wrong! 

Id not fancy banshees against plague marines, unless you had a fair few more banshees than he had plague marines in a unit.

Addressing the Tau issue, I can honestly say so far, I have not found a list easier to beat with any of mine.  My chaos and guard steamrollered tau into the dirt.  They desperately need changing.  Kroot are okay, but even average things like chaos marines rip them up in hand to hand.  Dedicated combat troops mincemeat them.

They really need to have bs4 on firewarriors.  I don't think that would unbalance them.   I really like crisis suits [mecha for the win] but my tau opponent seems to not like using them very much and when he does, he gives them weird weapon combos he has found online rather than IMO more sensible combos like fusion/plasma!

[Aldaris]

Huh - getting into cc with fist/hammer-Terminators is indeed a bad idea with those bikers. But as you already said, their speed should ensure you can engage what you want. If there's an obvious target, turboboost into the vicinity and then shoot and assault next turn. T6 with 3+ cover saves should help against pretty much anything.

I'm confident they would be useful, I'm just not confident they're worth their rather impressive price tag.

[Crimsonsphinx]

In the game without the lord, they got bogged down in combat with a marine tactical squad on an objective, before being pounced on by terminators.  With only 5 bikers, they were unable to kill all the marines before the regular shooty terminators killed them.

In the game with the lord,  and I will admit this was entirely my fault, I shot the terminators with my bikers first, as they have a pair of plasma guns hoping to lure them into a combat.  I figured Chaos lord with daemon weapon, champion with power fist and 4 other bikers would wipe out a unit of 5 combat terminators led by a chaplain [2x lightning claw, 3x thunder hammers] if they charged me.

It all went wrong as my lord managed to hit himself with his daemon weapon, the unit got ground down and wiped out.  If I had managed to actually go first, I am fairly confident my lord could have swung the combat.

Mark of Nurgle is expensive, It may have been better to have Mark of Tzeench tho.

[rufus sparkfire]

Every grey knights list I see on the internet has three dreadnoughts with double autocannons!

I hope 40K players aren't that lame really.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Well double autocannons is considered to be the best build available.  Some competitive people will throw money at anything if they think it will help them win, hence cookie cooker internet lists.  If you are willing to fork out nearly £40 a pop to forge world or make your own conversions I say crack on.

Twin autocannons is actually decent on regular marine Mortis dreadnaughts, never mind with the psybolt ammo making them four twinlinked missile launchers.

This is no worse than taking two of the same Rare choice for a warhammer army IMO.  Or three Wraithlords, or three Manticores.  Lots of armies have similar lameness available to them.

Doesn't mean you have to do this to win or have fun