Topic: Poll - Brettonian Alliance

[Veldemere]

This is the last version of the proposed alliance as written by Ostermarker (sorry for cut and paste couldn't figure out how to officially quote)

I believe it may be necessary to have the treaty retyped up here, I'm losing track. I think, as this is just basically an alliance with some extra stuff, go simple, let the fluff write the complicated bits, or GW.

As I see it is:

1. Alliance

1.1 This agreement shall remain in effect and adhered to by all parties until the date the campaign is brought to a close. After which time, officials from both sides may agree to extend this agreement. By official we mean: Imperial Elector Counts (including the Emperor) and Bretonnian Dukes (including the King)

1.2 Bretonnains shall avoid direct physical confrontation with any Imperial citizens, or mercenary under their employ, unless physically struck.

1.3 Any Imperial soldiers shall avoid direct physical confrontation with any Bretonnian, unless phuysically struck

2. Permission

2.1 A Bretonnian force may enter the Empire to attack the forces of evil,

2.2 If any member of a Bretonnian army breaks Imperial Law, he shall be treated as a civilian,

3. Military Fighting

3.1 As allies, Bretonnia and the Empire, shall, at all times, strive to help each other, and at the least avoid fighting one another. If neither is possible, after the battle, all surviving members of both armies shall aid in the burial of the dead. The leader of the aggressors must clean the sword of the leader of the defenders

3.2 A Bretonnian force may elect not to attack an army of High Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, if asked by an Imperial General, unless the General is defending or sallying,

3.3 An Imperial force may elect not to attack an army of High Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, if asked by a Bretonnian General, unless the General is defending or sallying,

3.4 A Bretonnian must avoid combat with our allies (which currently are: the Halflings of the Moot and the Nation of Kislev),

4. Land

4.1 Bretonnian nobles can take land without an owner on the condition they swear loyalty to the Elector Count (dual fiefs),

4.2 The Bretonnian noble may build defensive structures, as long as he is in agreement with the Elector Count and an Imperial Engineer on the specifications (height, depth, etc)

5. Marienburg And Its Surroundings

5.1 Bretonnia won't side with Marienburg if the Empire tries to attack an army in the Wasteland,

5.2 The Empire won't side with Marienburg if Bretonnia tries to attack an army in the Bitter Moors,

5.3 If Marienburg is taken by either of the two nations, it shall be split down the Reik.

Please vote on this proposal. I could not see how to post it as a poll so please limit your answers to "yay" - Supporting the alliance as stated or "Nay" - Rejecting the alliance as stated.

Thankyou

edit: if you do have any qusetions plese put them on the other thread, I want to try and keep this one as clear as possible.

[Fandir Nightshade]

yay....

[Ostermarker]

yay

[wissenlander]

Let's sign this thing and move on, yay!

[FVC]

To be clear, Ostermarker's treaty is acceptable to Bretonnia. We'll sign it if you will.

[Warlord]

I vote for it.

I am glad the Bretonnians and us can see eye to eye on this. It makes me proud to be a human 

[Douchie]

With all my heart NO!

Are we really so desperate for an allaince we will gladly give in to this Trojan Horse of a proposal?

The benefits here clearly do not out-weigh the sacrifices we make.

Bretonia has enough land, we should not be giving away large parts of our own to suppliment a half promise of military aid. Which they only promise as long as its not against one of their  4 other alies (all of whom are also INVADING OUR TERRITORY!!)

Bretonia's Lebensraum MUST NOT happen here. The Reason we have large parts of the emipire with out ruling nobles is because they were wiped out stopping the spread of Chaos south toward Bretonia. What do they offer us for this loss of life protecting them... A ploy to steal OUR Land after our blood defendend theirs.

I for one will not honour it.

[Veldemere]

yay

[Sterling Bloodprint]

As an Ogre I have nothing to say.

however, my first test-swordsmen is painted (and soon to be stripped), his name is Bob, and he votes "Aye!"

[Mark Perry]

Yay

[Dendo Star]

Yay!

[Rufas the Eccentric]

I am concerned with section 5.3.  Marienburg is entirely on the west side of the River Riek on every map I have ever seen.  With that qualification noted, I'll vote Aye.

[cisse]

Same remark as Rufas; otherwise I vote yes.

Couldn't we just say yes or no? All this aye/yay or nay reminds me of the votes at Bugman's (*shivers*).

[Veldemere]

Yes / no, or anything as long as it is clear which way you are voting.

[Tostig]

In favour of.

That good enough?   

[Wyzer1]

Could you clear up what this means:

2.2 If any member of a Bretonnian army breaks Imperial, he shall be treated as a civilian,

Not too fond of this one either... but I can live with it (I guess)

3.3 An Imperial force may elect not to attack an army of High Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarfs, Lizardmen, if asked by a Bretonnian General, unless the General is defending or sallying,

I like this one:

4.1 Bretonnian nobles can take land without an owner on the condition they swear loyalty to the Elector Count (dual fiefs),

Time to get me some competant knights!

With some regret, I will vote Yes

[wissenlander]

Let's remember not to nit pick too much.  We're not lawyers, well Rufas is, but we're trying to get a working agreement that can work in fluff terms.

[Dendo Star]

It's cool, beacuse if either of us capture Marienburg, it will then be divided equally between our 2 nations.  No worries there.

[Gneisenau]

With a heavy heart - yes.

[clausewitz]

I vote yes.  Enthusiastically.

[HeraldOfTheFree]

Im unsure about 4.1, but I disagree with 4.2. Why shall we allow them to build defensive structures in the Empire? Why shall we give them a foothold?
However... with regret I say AYE. We need an ally, and even Brettonians are better than nothing. I would prefer Brets over WE, Lizardmen or Dwarfs, and if the HE refuse than Brets will have to do.

[Dendo Star]

I would like to note that if we build a great degree of fluff showing Empire-Bretonnian cooperation, the new Bretonnian army book may show a far better realm of Bretonnia then it does now.  Both to it's neighbor (us!) and to it's own people.

I sure wish Bretonnia wasn't so danged "dark" in fluff.  But, and I myself had forgotten this, the players at The Roundtable have no doubt been playing their game nation so long that they were around when Bretonnia was more fair and just.

[Ernst Brauer]

As much as it pains me, I think we've got a good thing going here. I vote yes.

[Wyzer1]

I vote yes.  Enthusiastically.

Woa, hold on there. No Enthusiasm in politics...

I voted yes anyways, but will someone please explain what:

2.2 If any member of a Bretonnian army breaks Imperial, he shall be treated as a civilian,

Means?

Thanks

[HeraldOfTheFree]

I think it means if any Brets decide they want to live in the Empire they are welcome to.