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Warhammer-Empire Website => Welcome to the Empire - Guides, Help, Introductions, and Rules => WFB Empire Provinces => Topic started by: Midaski on January 24, 2007, 09:59:14 PM
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The southernmost province of the Empire, where the Countess tends to spend most of her time at Nuln. The province is triangular in shape, bounded by the Black and Grey Mountains on two sides, and the River Reik on the third. and also encompasses the old province of Solland, or Sudenland as it is referred to sometimes now.
Library Link: http://warhammer-empire.com/library/aisforaltdorf/the-grand-county-of-wissenland/
Current Ruler: Elector Countess Emmanuelle von Liebwitz
Capital: Wissenberg
Province Colours: Grey and White
Map Link: (Colour) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Wissenland_v2.jpg
(Black & White) http://www.fys.ku.dk/~blicher/Wissenland_v2_bw.jpg
Notes:
Incorporates the old Province of Solland
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A place to call my own! Love this idea Midaski, great work.
I'm by no means an official Wissenland representative, but it's been my one and only Imperial army. I've done work on it for the past five years now on and off.
I have created a fortress town at the intersection of the Upper Reik and the Oggel Rivers named Brennenburg (area of influence marked in red).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/sierragulf27/Wissenland_v2_bw_red3.jpg)
A link for the timeline can be found here: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=6679.0 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=6679.0) It only goes up to the War of Ostermark Succession unfortunately. I get side tracked somewhat easy upon occasion.
The current Graf of the town is the young Gerhard Olenbay. I'm currently writing a story now that introduces him. That can be found here: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=14901.0 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=14901.0)
I also wrote a series of short stories surrounding the War of Ostermark Succession and Graf Wolfgard Olenbay. That can be found here: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/content/view/70/46/ (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/content/view/70/46/)
I have also created my own knightly order known as the Wissengaurd. Here's what I have on them so far:
The Wissenguard was formed not too long after Gorbad Ironclaw's destruction of the realm of Solland. Wissenland being effected greatly as well reeled from the destruction. A knight by the name of Agis Tolzen swore that he would never allow the destruction of his province to occur again. He had a small retinue of knights (the order is now unknown) and they all swore to defend Wissenland unto death.
They are seperate from the Countess, for long ago it was seen that the Elector's wishes could be different from that of the province. The Grandmaster does not have to pay homage to the Elector but usually does.
At this time the Grandmaster, Ulf Hochstahl, maintains strained relations with Emanuelle von Liebewitz. He is a prideful man and rarely convenes to her court. His second in command is his son Karsten Hochstahl, he's much more of a worldy man, a diplomat, very kind. He and his father get along, they love one another but often disagree on how things should be done.
It is a dishonor for a council of war to be convened without the presence of a member of the Wissenguard. This is one of the biggest flaws of the order. Since they feel that they have risked much in the protection of the realm, they should have a say in any large proceeding. Karsten sees the folly in this and constantly clashes with his father on this issue.
It is a secular order, but most of the knights are devout Sigmarites and it is highly encouraged, but not mandatory.
The main chapter house is located on the outskirts of Wissenburg. This was established to allow assistance to the Elector, where the seat of power should reside.
Notable people in the Wissenguard (the only ones I've really mentioned) from the past are. Gunther Klaus Olenbay-killed in battle in 2105. Reineir Olenbay, Graf Wolfgard's cousin and an Inner Circle knight who fought valiantly in the War of Ostermark Succession.
The colors are grey and white. They believe firmly in the whole Wissenland thing. Beyond that, each chapterhouse would have it's own color dileneating who's who (sort of like a White Wolf deal). The White Lion is the symbol of Wissenland so will probably be the iconography, but it's still up for grabs.
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This is a link that deals more with WFRP than WHFB: http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/content/view/94/52/1/16/ (http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/content/view/94/52/1/16/). Even still it does a decent job at giving the 'feel' for the province. Historical information is very questionable as the two games have diverted paths a while back, but any geography or economics are fine I would think.
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Still no mention on any of the maps as to where the old borders were, i.e. before the greedy land grabbing tactics after the devastation reaked by the orcs or, (as I am sure the way you wold see it) when Wissenland took the people of Solland under their wing to help heal the wounds.
The only information I can find so far is that Bugmans was in Solland so I assume it was the lands south of there, but the book says much of what was Solland is now wasteland. The map does not seem to allow for much to the south as it seems to be totally hemmed in by mountains.
Any thoughts on a dotted line border of where Solland was?
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I'd say it's the southern tip of Wissenland. In one of the maps, I think it was put back into the latest edition, it cuts off part of Wissenland and says the former Realm of Solland. Plus that's where the River Sol runs. So basically I think it was a small strip in between the River and the mountains. Weird as it was mostly devestated of all provinces, but furthest away from Black Fire Pass. I guess Gorbad followed the mountains and swept back around to hit Nuln and then go towards Altdorf?
On another note, Pfeildorf used to be the capital of Sudenland. Sudenland I believe was split between Averland and Wissenland. This would mean that Wissenland would be where Solland was (under this thought process).
Once Solland was created though (only to be destroyed) Sudenland was taking out of the record books for several editions until the last edition where it was referenced on page 18 as a regional 'flavor' name.
Sudenland apparently has a strong showing in some novels. Especially ones written by Jack Yeovil. I hear they are probably some of the best novels put out by GW, but unfortunately do not corolate with our timeline at all.
I know this comes up a lot. Sudenland/Solland stuff, so I'd actually like to adress a lot of it up front if possible.
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Information on the Countess Emanuelle von Liebewitz can be found here: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49420 (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49420)
A lot of the information if from Roleplay, but sometimes can be used for inspiration. It's an interesting bit of information and shows the depth to the Roleplay universe. I only wish Battle had that amount of depth.
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For anyone who's interested in Solland, the map that I have displayed is where my guess it would be. It's outlined by the blue.
My reasoning for the location is that I think the River Sol would be the northern most boundary. Landmarks such as rivers would be used as a border and this is really the northernmost landmark that would be distinguishable.
The same reason for the cut off around Owingen and Wurmgrube near the Grey Mountains. There is no other definable landmark any further up besides the tributary north of Pfeildorf. This would cut Wissenland in half and I don't think that would be likely.
Conversely, based upon the landmark/river arguement, Sollands borders may not have stretched that far north/northwest and may have ended around the Augen - Kelgard -Nehren region. But I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt on this one.
Any thoughts on this?
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Great job and I approve of your logic. This would seem to be the logical layout. I know that traditionally towns were situated near rivers due to the trade/ transport benefits as well as irrigation possibilities for crops but I note with interest that your border places a lot of towns from opposing provinces close to each other (providing they existed at the time). I also agree with you about the northern border, I think it unlikely it would be any further north, what does surprise me is the large number of Karaks in the region as Bugmans is the only one that says it is disused are we to assume a strong dwarf presence in the area?
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Yeah, there are quite a few villages that are relatively close. But I guess there wasn't much of a choice in the matter. As you said, the advantages of rivers outweighs anything else. I don't know if those towns existed before the anexation, but probably so.
It seems odd that there are quite a few towns in the former Solland. The fluff makes it seem like the place has never recovered. The big blank area on the map where I wrote Solland is the area that was probably most effected since there is nothing for miles and miles around. I read somewhere that someone theorized it was considered a 'tainted' or 'cursed' land which would explain the non resettlement. That would be the only reason considering it's been 800 years since the invasion. I find that to be too simplistic (on GW's terms though). That much time would see some resettlement. Especially by ambitious young Solland nobles such as yourself, Veldemere.
As far as the Karaks go, I would assume that a couple of those are abandoned, just not mentioned that they are. The two main ones Karak Hirn and Karak Norn are still up and running as far as I know. I believe there would be a lot of interaction between the folk of Wissenland (Solland) and the Dwarfs. Towns especially close to the Karaks would benefit greatly from the trade that would take place.
Also, just a side note. It was mentioned somewhere the Sudenland had a rich wool industry. Once the transition happened maybe Solland had one as well?
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Yes, the whold Sudenland does rather cloud the issue, it is still not clear to me whether it was just a confusion from one edition to another that it 'morphed' into Solland. If Wissenland were to be split into 3 it would not seem to be sustainable as a province as I am assuming that Elector Counts fund their lavish lifestyles (particularly Emanuelle) by taxation either on the populace or on trade. If one were not able to control a high enough populace one could net generate the monies to have any form of standing army (which would obviously be enhanced by militia). Are there any sources on where the provinces hold their state troops, I assume that city states have their own garrisons but there is scant information about the provinces.
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As far as Sudenland goes, it was erased between 3rd and 4th edition. Solland was instated only to be destroyed, it was never really a county that was alive. They tried to sweep it under the table basically and only in the NEB do they adress it somewhat.
Kreutzhofen is a fort/castle. There's a garrison there that I know of (commanded by Clarkarias. :wink:). Beyond that I'm not too sure as of now.
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Nice to more Sollanders. My alligence primarely lies with the Twin Thrones, than the Eternal Realm, followed by the Mage Priests, but I have a small Solland secesionists army (1673 pts), not from the Empire but from Wissenland.
I allwasy had the impression that the Border of Former Solland went like this:
Based on my knowdlege of the Empire (both WHFB and WHFRP) these are the borders between Wissenland and Sudenland before the second was absorbed into Wisseland a some years ago.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/Giladis/DivisionbetweenWissenlandandSudenla.jpg)
Based on the above map and information provided about Solland and Wissenland I personally believe these were the borders of Solland. I am not sure about the western border though I am inclined to say the northern line is correct on. Sudenland was made exclusevly out of land that once was part of Solland and recieved it electoral vote while the rest was given to Wissenland.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/Giladis/Solland.jpg)
What do you think how close to truth I am?
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From what I know of Sudenland, I think that is a fair representation of where it was located. Sudenland seemed much more important than Wissenland. One issue that I see though is that there was mention of parts of Sudenland being absorbed by Averland. Based upon our current thought of natural boundaries this doesn't make much sense.
As far as the Sudenland to Solland issue and Solland being the 'new' Sudenland I would disagree for a couple of reasons. First I believe I read somewhere (and Veldemere must have as well) that Bugman's Brewery was in the former Solland. That is located on the south side of the River Sol.
Also from the maps we have here, which I think are pretty acurate (for now) with Roleplay shows more sparsely populated land on the south side of the river. There aren't many features that would draw inhabitants but if you look on the other side of the river there are quite a few towns and villages dotted along the landscape. This could be due to roads running through the area, I'll admit, but the southern part seems to fit the desolate Solland.
One thing that just came to mind though. I read on Critical Hit that Wissenland's origon was linked to Kreutzhofen Castle. If this were the case that could throw a damper into the system somewhat since it conflicts with my theory. That is definitely some support for your stance Giladis.
The only way that it could fit with my theory (for it to truely make sense) would be if the map looked something like this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/sierragulf27/Wissenland_v2_bw_blue-2.jpg)
Under this amended border to the southeast, I would imagine Solland's border to stretch to it's furthest capacity up to Wurmgrube.
Thoughts?
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I went to look into all info I have on Sudneland, Wissenland and Solland I found this.
Following 1707 Solland was ravaged and on its ruins was Sudenland built, a fair bit of Solland was given to Wissenland. Now when in 2515 Sudenlands Electoress decided to unite with Wissenland for reasons still unknown. Sundenland was didvided between Wissenland and Averland. From that we can conclude that a portion of todays Averland was once Solland and my guess is the part that stands at the mouth of the Black Fire Pass, considering that Gorbad entered Solland when he left the pass.
The growing of power of Wissenland was indeed linked with Kreutzhofen. It is first mentioned in 1614 as a hamlet and was abandoned and resettled on several occasions untill 2107 (400 years after Gorbad) when it became a village and following the discovery of the Montdidier Pass that allowed "safe" trade with Bretonnia and Estalia that in return allowed Wissenland to get richer and more powerful.
So when all above is taken into conclusion I believe I provided acurate maps thought I should add some land in what is today Averland.
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Interesting. Where did that information come from? I don't doubt it's authenticity for Roleplay, but in Battle terms Sudenland has been swept under the rug and only mentioned as as regional dialect talk.
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WHFRP v1 and v2.
Even if we drop the whole existance of Sudenland there is still a problem for your map. Gorbad went through the pass and entered Solland while today Averland guards that same entrance.
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That seems to be pretty sound.
Is there any mentioning of when Averland gained access to Black Fire pass or is it one of our many educated guesses that we have to make?
The Battle of Solland's Crown would make more sense then as Solland's army didn't have to march across Wissenland to arrive at Averheim. The Elector of Wissenland arriving at Altdorf isn't that big of a stretch considering Wissenburg's location.
I know the orc invasion force was large and it had to have been for a sacking of the Moot to the destruction of Solland. Maybe there were two columns, one that went to attack the Moot and then Averheim lead by Gorbad and another that swung lower to hit Solland?
Very intriguing. I had been flip flopping in which region that Solland was and for some time I had thought it was in the Northern part, but my recent study made me think it was in the south. This is cool. :-)
OH, and at this rate you should be just as angry with with Averland, Veldemere. :laugh:
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Ok I found some more stuff that change the story somewhat and borders. This change of sentiment and idea came from me once more going through the 6th ed EM AB.
Redefined borders of Solland
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/Giladis/Solland2.jpg)
Border of Sudenland
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/Giladis/Sudenland.jpg)
I found something that slipped me before.
Sudenland was created after GWAC in 2303 almost 600 years after Solland disapeared mostly out of territories once held by Solland but also from areas that were part of Wissenland before it absorbed Solland. Creation of Sudenland was a reward for some noble that was a great hero during the war.
Also Solland and Averland once shared the entrance into the Black Fire Pass.
What do you think of these new borders.
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I have no issue with them. I don't have a lot of information about this stuff, and what I did have was what I based my origonal maps off of. My only concern is, however, that most of the information that any of us can get is from WRP and that system often conflicts with WFB.
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Hey all,
I have some questions about Wissenland, and Reikland since they border one another. I have been contemplating locating a wizard lord, his tower, and his household guard somewhere in Wissenland, possibly near the Reikland border. The objective is to be able to have some Wissenland troops and even some Reikland troops included in my army along with the wizard's troops. Also, I hope to reasonably include some help from Nuln every now and then. I think that I can count on a dwarf ally every once in awhile too.
How does this sound so far? Is it in line with the backstory enough?
The problem I am having is that Wissenland and the area I am talking about seem to be relatively peaceful areas of the Empire. Most of the threat in the Warhammer world seems to emanate from the North and East these days. I know that orcs have come through Black Fire Pass in the past, but what about chaos threats such as beastmen, or threats from the undead. When I look at the maps there do not seem to be any vast expanses of deep woods to harbor any serious threats.
What threats do the surrounding mountains present that are in keeping with the backstory/fluff?
Just who are the enemies of the Empire to be dealt with in Wissenland?
How likely are Wissenland troops to participate in expeditions to support other provinces when their elector countess is a disinterested socialite living the highlife in Nuln?
By the way, I can very easily imagine a story of civil war in Wissenland as the result of the countess slipping into the cult of Slaneesh! After all, she is portrayed as a pleasure hungry individual interested only in fulfilling her wonton desires.
I am interested in your views on these things.
Thanks,
Marcus
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There should be no problem about it since I think Wizards Lords are apolotical as long they aren't nobles bound to certain province. The main enemy for that part would your average Greenskings and Beastmen from the Grey/Black mountains, also in the region is the Blood Keep the legendary former home of the Blood Dragons knightly order so roving Vampires could be threat.
Well Wissenlands state troops could be found anywhere where the countess sends them, but troops in the livery of Wissenland are also the ones of various nobles so there aren't any problems about that.
My own Solland secesions movement started in what was once Solland but after suffering a defeat in open conflict they now roam the empire on a terror campaign to try and force the Emperor to remove Solland from Wissenland.
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Dang Solland lot, causing trouble. :wink:
That would be enough for a civil war right there. There are probably an equal number Solland armies as Wissenland armies that are causing trouble out there.
Even though the Countess is uninterested in her province doesn't mean that Wissenland troops don't participate in the wider scope of things. The Emperor puts out a call for troops and Emanuella probably has someone handle these sorts of things.
A Slaaneshi Countess, that would explain a lot. :laugh:
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Hasn't Franz thrown his eye on the countess. Something about most eligable spinster in whole of the Empire. I mean KF was 35 in 2515, that would mean during SoC he was 42 and now he would have 45 or even more. I mean it is high time to get ofspring, unless he wants his sister son to become the heir of Reikland and Reiklands candidate for Emperor. The boy was 12/13 in 2515. That would mean he will soon be in his prime to take to power.
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There were rumors of him having his eye on her. She would have to be in her 40s at least as well I would think. WFB hasn't adressed the issue of the Emperor's offspring very well thus far and frankly, it could get messy if not handled correctly. Even if they slip unnamed guy into the throne if something happens to KF, it'll just make people angrier that their next Emperor is a no name. Well unless one of the current Electors takes the crown.
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Todbringer sure looks as he could, but there is also the Cult of Sigmar. It might not be beyond them to try and puch one of the Arch-Lectors or even the Grand Teogonist for the position of the Emperor on the wing of their strengthening following SoC.
OT: I think main problem of warhamer is the good vs evil that has taken over over the past 2 editions. Chaos shouldn't be such a threat, I mean it is babaric tribes from the north with some supernatural beasts. Wars between Empire, Bretonnian, High Elves and even Dwarfs should be common. A true free for all with each power trying to become dominant through war, diplomacy, war, trade and then some more war.
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Todbringer sure looks as he could, but there is also the Cult of Sigmar. It might not be beyond them to try and puch one of the Arch-Lectors or even the Grand Teogonist for the position of the Emperor on the wing of their strengthening following SoC.
Oh, I just had a nasty thought...
Its the Nemesis Crown campaign. Volkamar finds the nemesis crown and Karl Franz mysteriously disapears, Volkamar becomes Emperor by popular demand :evil:
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There was a discussion a month or two back on if one of the non Elector Counts could gain the throne. Since they are Electors, I don't see anything preventing it really, there just isn't a precedent for it, which would carry a lot in a society such as the Empire.
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Could you point me to that discussion.
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I believe this is the discussion that you were asking about:
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=15397.225 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=15397.225)
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OH, and at this rate you should be just as angry with with Averland, Veldemere. :laugh:
Dang Solland lot, causing trouble. :wink:
Now now, I thought we were behaving until the end of this campaign, sorry I have not checked out this forum lately but it looks like you and Giladis have been doing some great detective work to try and establish the borders and by the sounds of it the current thinking is looking closer to where it would be. The only part that confuses me is that in the new army book it says something about areas of Solland no longer inhabited due to the level of destruction, I can't see anywhere on the map where there would be an obvious taint. I had always assumed this tranch of land was between the southernmost surviving town and the mountains, but this would not appear to be the case in Wissenland, mabe it is a section of Averland I will have to check.
Oh and don't worry about those Averlanders Wiss, they will get whats coming to them mark my words!
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Yeah, based on the new maps, the only desolate area is where you stated, Veldemere. That was one of the main reasons I initially thought that was the former Solland. I found some stuff on Mad Alfred's page that dealt with Sudenland and Wissenland and I believe that Giladis' information to be correct. But the old Wissenland looks more desolate than the old Solland from that newest map.
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Well thats what happens when your Elector buggers off to Whore herself round Nuln (bugger, thats me going into hiding then!).
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Well, if there's one thing that we all have in common, it is a hearty disliking for von Liebewitz.
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Wiss
I am dying to know what new information you have uncovered, no doubt it will get you off the hook and send me after Averland.
V
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Ah, yes. Thumbing through Sigmar's Heirs, I naturally went straight for the Wissenland section. Good info in that and if I had the money I would've bought it. Anyway, on to the interesting information...
It talked about the rigid and seemingly depressive nature of Wissenlanders, and it went into the destruction of Solland. Apparently that is a large blight in the minds of Wissenland and to this day Wissenlanders take the destruction of Solland personally.
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Ahhh good so we can continue to be allies. I will have to find a copy of sigmars heirs and cross reference with Averland and see if I can find any more about it. Hopeully this information source will not be a contradictory as other sources we have found.
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I know this is possibly risking the wrath of the toothless inquisition but here we go, please lets try to discover any more we can about our ancestral right to Solland.
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I know this is possibly risking the wrath of the toothless inquisition but here we go, please lets try to discover any more we can about our ancestral right to Solland.
dude, your in the Inquisition... And I happen to have all my teeth :-D <--- See?
And none of these threads (the Province topics ones) can be considered threadomancy anyways
Solland is a made up place, it never existed :roll:
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Does anyone have some good pictures of Wissenland State Troops painted up? I'd love to see some examples.
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I'll see if I can borrow a camera from a friend so I can get pics online. No promises though. FR1DAY's probably got the best Wissenland army that I've seen thus far on this site.
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I have a question about Wissenland. As I stated in other threads, I got the 5th Ed. "Idol of Gork" boxed set. In it, the main character is the 2nd son of a noble from Wissenland. Now, I am not sure how the nobility works in the Empire. I assume that there are a number of nobles in Wissenland that culminate with the Elector Count (who parties in Nuln). That doesn't mean that there aren't other nobles in Wissenland, right?
Let me quote a snippet of the boxed set:
Rutgar was the younger son of Count Wilhelm of Wissenland, one of the dukedoms of the Empire. From an early age, Rutgar had known that it was his older brother who would succeed their father and rule in Wissenland.
[/i]
Now, that isn't conflicting, right? I am led to believe that Count Wilhelm is in charge of Wissenland. Or is it just that he is in charge of his land in Wissenland? I guess that's the way I should take it, anyways, right? Or else I am conflicting with the proper storyline.
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Before year 2515 Wissenland was a separate province from Nuln but didn't have an Electoral status. It had often been ruled by the Emperors themselves in addition to their own domain. It was in 2515 when Elector Countess of Nuln become the Countess of Wissenland that the electorla status moved from the city state of Nuln to the province of Wissenland. Though through out its history Wissenland had the Electroal status but at some point lost it and since then it has been on an on and off basis.
So if I am not mistaken the characters from the "Idol" are from before that time and I see nothing wrong with them.
Cheers
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In Sigmar's Heirs it talks about the different government systems in the provinces. Wissenland is Feudal with a council of burghers, churchmen and nobles meeting in Wissenburg when the Countess so desires. Rutgar could be a noble of a 'fief' somewhere in Wissenland and since he's the 2nd son, he won't rule those lands. It doesn't necessarily mean that he would be in the royal house to rule Wissenland, just a town or series of towns.
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Greetings All,
Please excuse me for my lack of proper knowledge of the Grand County of Wissenland, I only became aware of the Empire just 2 days ago.
I have a few questions and I am hoping that the great nobles that reside here will straighten me out :smile2:
1. What is the main religion of Wissenland?
2. What would be the very basic army structure for a Wissenland army?
3. Does Wissenland have any knightly order chapterhouses, if so, which ones?
4. What would be the most likely Wizard to call Wissenland home?
And yes, I am an utter and complete noobie :biggriin:
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Greetings All,
Please excuse me for my lack of proper knowledge of the Grand County of Wissenland, I only became aware of the Empire just 2 days ago.
I have a few questions and I am hoping that the great nobles that reside here will straighten me out :smile2:
1. What is the main religion of Wissenland?Sigmarite, but not as devout as a bit further north
2. What would be the very basic army structure for a Wissenland army?plenty of state troops, and greatswords
3. Does Wissenland have any knightly order chapterhouses, if so, which ones?see my last point
4. What would be the most likely Wizard to call Wissenland home?i would say bright and beasts
And yes, I am an utter and complete noobie :biggriin:
Thanks in advance for any help.
I have answered to the best of my limited knowledge but the main point to say is be a little patient for your answer as this site has a genuine expert, just wait a few days until Wissenlander returns from Canada (he will find this)
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Oh Veldy...you're a man after my own heart. :wink:
1. One of the arch lectors of Sigmar resides in Nuln which is still 'attached' to the province. Wissenland was the site of a miracle of Sigmar, where he/his spirit/something saved a group near the mountains. The tribe that were the founders of Wissenland were staunch followers of Sigmar during the founding days. Sigmar's Heirs (sourcebook which is very good) stated that Taal and Rhya were quite popular in Wissenland as well. Myrmidia's influence is more prevelant in Averland, but extends to Wissenland somewhat as well as there's some influence from Tilea due to the various passes and proximity. Wissenlanders are known as very pious people, and somewhat superstitious as well, and are known for their devotion to many gods, though, too. So they make it a point to make their rounds to all the different deities through the week.
2. Wissenland is a poor province and relies on more basic troop types and hit and run tactics. Horse archers are a mainstay as are pike regiments from Wissenburg (could be used as spearmen though). The bow is a common weapon as well and using huntsmen and archers is quite fluffy. Anything that's expensive wouldn't be that common. A few regiments of swords or greatswords or cannons would be alright (especially if there were connections to Nuln from one of the nobles).
3. Not many big knightly orders really. The order of the Broken Sword I believe is one. And that's the only one that's coming to mind at the moment. I think there is another, but my brain isn't working at the moment. There is a listing of different knightly orders in the library and it's quite thorough. I'll have to do a bit of research and refresh my memory and get back to you.
4. According to 'A is for Altdorf' by rufus sparkfire (a recommended read for sure, can be found in the library as well) Beasts and Grey wizards are the most common in Wissenland...but by no means are they exclusive.
Hope that helps some. Feel free to ask anything else if needed. :::cheers:::
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Thanks for the help!!!
Wissenlander Horse Archers???!!!
What mini do you use for that troop type?
Thank you all again :biggriin:
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Wissenlander Horse Archers???!!!
What mini do you use for that troop type?
A good looking alternative would be a Pistolier / Outrider box with some Militia archer bits
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Exactly, Warlord. FR1DAY has some nice looking Wissenland horse archers. I've got some as well and will post some pictures, hopefully soon, in the Brush and Palette. You can use them as proxy pistoliers or as Dogs of War light cavalry which is what I do. The only problem with the light cavalry option as that they are rares, when in Wissenland they would be core. But I don't really use the standard rares, so it works alright for me.
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Or, failing that search e-bay for Kislev (ungol) Horse archers, they are really nice figs, imho, too perhaps a little small compared to 7th ed figs.
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...
I'm by no means an official Wissenland representative, but it's been my one and only Imperial army. I've done work on it for the past five years now on and off.
I have created a fortress town at the intersection of the Upper Reik and the Oggel Rivers named Brennenburg (area of influence marked in red).
...
Interesting. Some how I hadn't read this till today. :icon_rolleyes:
It was neat to find out where Brennenburg has been located. Being on the border with Averland makes it convenient that my small mercenary band of Wissenland greatswords, painted with your color scheme, are being hired to help my Averlanders. Unfortunately my Aver River Regiment is based on the other side of Averland, but at least that is better than both of us having our armies based even further away. I'm looking forward to perhaps someday aquiring some of the state troops that you used to create some of your greatswords, and then use some of the two-handed weapons I have from a 6th edition militia box to model some more for my Wissenland mercenary unit.
In creating your fortress town, have you developed a map complete with what is located there? I'm contemplating doing something like this out on the Aver River to use as the main base for the Aver River Regiment, and maybe even use the town for a jumping off place for roleplaying as well.
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I do have a map that is pretty far along, but not yet finished. One of my many projects. I hope to finish it at some point, though, as all I really have to do is identify the locations of the different 'hot spots' that are of importance.
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I'm really glad I decided to read this thread today. I've been working on fluff for my Aver River Regiment over the last few months, and Wissenlander's work has begun to inspire me to do more research on Averland again, and write more of my own fluff down, too. Along with the different sources I've been reading over the internet, I've also been using my recent battles to develop a history of my military unit. It is amazing how this type of creativity develops ideas, and at the same time changes along the way. :icon_cool:
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Ahhh, so I am to sit back and watch whilst the 2 of you divvy up Solland! That aside, hurry up with the map Wiss!
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I will soon be dismissing my Wissenland troops as they get a well deserved retirement for a different type or project.
Although it's very nice to know that the old Grey and White I first started collecting when 6th edition was first released will be continued on by a fair number of generals!
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Oh noes, don't leave the grey and white! :cry:
I hope that you continue to hang onto your army, you never know when you'll get the itch to return to Kreutzhofen.
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I'm impressed that you remembered that! I barely did! :icon_lol:
I'm trying out a new theme that I don't think has been done before because I want to try out some new colours. As much as I love the old Grey/White, it's not the most vibrant of colour schemes.
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I can be quite freakish at times with some things I remember. :blush:
It is true that they're not flashy, but the color fits the personality of the province very much. I know a lot of people don't like it because of the blandness and the fact that grey and white aren't contrasting colors, but I've grown to love it!
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Veldemere, you wrote the following:
"Or, failing that search e-bay for Kislev (ungol) Horse archers, they are really nice figs, imho, too perhaps a little small compared to 7th ed figs."
I have some of the those Horse Archers that are bare chested and I could use those for the Wissenland Horse archers and that would be cool?
If so, would they be in their native color scheme or should I tie the Grey & White to them as well?
Wissenland Generals ROCK!!! :icon_razz:
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Another question. . .
Would there be any reason to have Crossbowmen in a Wissenlander army? Could they be justified by fluff?
Thanks
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Crossbows are very fluffy in Wissenland armies, more so than handgunners (though handgunners are fine).
You can use the bare chested guys as Wissenlanders, no problem there.
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Sooo, crossbows would be better than handgunners in Wissenland?
Also, about Knightly Orders, I read in this library that the Shining Swords and Broken Swords would be in Wissenland. Are they the same or different Orders?
Thanks
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Sooo, crossbows would be better than handgunners in Wissenland?
Yes, Wissenland is quite poor and handguns are expensive.
I don't know the Shining Swords, but if the Library lists them as two different orders, I'd say they are :smile2:.
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Oops, my bad. I went back to double check and did not find the reference to the Broken Swords being in Wissenland. I thought I read it somewhere, oh well.
Then the Shining Swords is in the Secular Orders of the Library. So I guess they are two separate orders.
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Madalfred's Sudland borders
http://www.madalfred.darcore.net/Maps.html
Sudenland, 2e
Well, technically, Sudenland only exists as the part of Wissenland east of the River Soll in WFRP2e. Still, I've included it here for those GMs that prefer a free Sudenland. There's even a gazetteer for it below.
Sudenland, central region
This map has been developed for the forthcoming The Gathering Darkness: Grim Pursuits adventure. It includes many of the settlements in the central portion of Sudenland. Entries to the Sudenland and Wissenland (2nd edition) gazetteers have been updated.
Sudenland, northern region
This map has been developed for the forthcoming The Gathering Darkness: Grim Pursuits adventure. It includes many of the settlements in the northern portion of Sudenland. Entries to the Sudenland and Wissenland (2nd edition) gazetteers have been updated.
Sudenland
Revised 7/10/08. All the information in this gazetteer also appears in the Wissenland one. I've only put it here to make it easier for GM's that prefer a separate province for Sudenland.
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Are you saying that Sudenland is a Germanisation of Solland?
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I'd say it's kind of the other way around, actually. Mad Alfred has some interesting stuff, but I don't know where he really gets it from. From what I heard, the new edition of WFRP is supposed to match up with WFB. That being the case, Sudenland doesn't exist, and through revisionist history, never did. It was mentioned in the latest army book about how Solland loyalists refer to the region as Sudenland as a small measure of defiance. That is about the only way it lives on.
Perhaps Mad Alfred and others choose to use some older supplements, or other sources that are out that I have not yet seen. If so then that would work, but it doesn't really jive with what's out at the moment.
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quick question to the Wissenland/Solland/Empire vets; whats the colours of Solland? I was guessing base coat of gray, with red and white detail colours?
:::cheers:::
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quick question to the Wissenland/Solland/Empire vets; whats the colours of Solland? I was guessing base coat of gray, with red and white detail colours?
There have never been any, because it was not a province at the time provincial colours were handed out.
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Perhaps Mad Alfred and others choose to use some older supplements, or other sources that are out that I have not yet seen. If so then that would work, but it doesn't really jive with what's out at the moment.
Look WFRP2 Sigmar's Heirs page 94
Sudenland have the signification "old Solland". It's the name give to the east region of Wissenland that be link to Solland.
To the novel Drakenfel, you can have a referee to Johann von Mecklenberg the Elector of Sudenland. To my opinion "Elector of Sudenland is a honorific title but not a real title of Elector Count. Sudenland don't exist really or maybe to the period 2506, the Sudenland have elector voting rights.
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I've seen those references of Sudenland = Solland, but even still, there is no Sudenland now just as there is no Solland (sorry Veldemere). The maps he comes up with are cool, but don't make sense in the current fluff stand point of WFB. Doesn't stop anyone from doing as they wish, though.
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quick question to the Wissenland/Solland/Empire vets; whats the colours of Solland? I was guessing base coat of gray, with red and white detail colours?
There have never been any, because it was not a province at the time provincial colours were handed out.
that make's perfect sence! Rufas to the rescue
:::cheers:::
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I've seen those references of Sudenland = Solland, but even still, there is no Sudenland now just as there is no Solland (sorry Veldemere).
Sudenland referee to WFRP2 is for adapt old background and correct inconsistance. But with this and the reedition of Drachenfeld, the Sudenland is a region of Wissenland that have a some liberties (more to the WFRP1 time line period so until 2515 IC).
Other Mordheim Empire in Flames (1999 IC, lot of time after Solland destruction) make referee to Sudenland p5 and Ulli & Marquand mordheim rules (http://www.specialist-games.com/assets/ulli.pdf) too (maybe comics too).
The maps he comes up with are cool, but don't make sense in the current fluff stand point of WFB. Doesn't stop anyone from doing as they wish, though.
It's your opinion but it's sur that actually Sudenland is a region of Wissenland. WFRP2 SH, Mordheim Empire in Flames, Mordheim Ulli & Marquand, novel reedition Drachenfeld, maybe comics Ulli & Marquand prove it.
Excuse to my bad english.
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Sudenland was a fully-electoral province in the original Empire fluff, and there was no Solland (Drachenfels uses this version of the fluff). When the 4th edition Empire army book was released, the fluff was drastically changed. Sudenland was simply forgotten. Solland appeared as a long-lost province in much the same location as Sudenland. But, it's not possible to reconcile the two fluffwise, because they are contradictory.
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Sudenland was a fully-electoral province in the original Empire fluff, and there was no Solland (Drachenfels uses this version of the fluff).
I know
When the 4th edition Empire army book was released, the fluff was drastically changed. Sudenland was simply forgotten. Solland appeared as a long-lost province in much the same location as Sudenland. But, it's not possible to reconcile the two fluffwise, because they are contradictory.
It's completly possible to reconcile. Drachenfels have been reedited with no change to this and Sigmar's Heir give a explication.
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What's your point exactly? :icon_confused:
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I was reading a linked article that Neverness provided, and came across this information. This is the first I've heard of the real reason for the downfall of Sudenland. Take this tail with a grain of salt, because I know not how true it is.
...losing an entire province of the Empire thanks to an author using a cropped map as his source being a prime example -we'll never get any official background on Sudenland now.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/list/15975.page;jsessionid=EE2CB8C3F91C4C9DF1C7E4B8ECA4D5F8 (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/list/15975.page;jsessionid=EE2CB8C3F91C4C9DF1C7E4B8ECA4D5F8)
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It probably is true, given that many of the changes in the fluff seemed completely arbitrary.
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In the latest edition of the Empire book, Solland and Sudenland are both referenced. Sudenland is Solland, as there are people in the Empire (mostly nobles from Solland, according to the book) who refuse to recognize the rights of the Wissenland countess to the former realm of Solland. It's in the geography of the Empire, under "The Mighty Rivers". Second Paragraph.
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At least they tried to meld the two together. I'm still confused by the Solland movement, though. Those people bear supposed grudges worse than dwarfs.
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For the sake of completeness and keeping things together, there is a discussion going on currently in the Elector's Forum about Imperial provinces. A decent chunk of which is in regards to the Wissenland/Sudenland/Solland area.
http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=25342.0 (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=25342.0)
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I am back. I am delving deeper into the background of my vampire baron who is a loyal Wissenland noble, his domains are on the very southeastern borders of what once used to be Solland.
Wiss could you PM me your e-mail as I have accidentally run into a really good compilation of history of the Empire, though there are some mistakes in it, which I believe come from earlier editions, I think it would interest you.
Cheers
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Wissenlander, i have noticed that the map you have done with the dark blue ink is only half correct,
ok, if you continued the line up along the rive sol to pfieldorf were the river sol meets the upper riek then continue up the river riek until you reach the black mountains, that is the area of sudenland, becouse the city of pfieldorf was the capital of both sudenland and sollond, think of pfieldorf and sudenland as the capital city and province is to Solland as the Riekland and Altdorf is to the Empire.
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That original map is wrong. At the time, I was incorrect with my theory on where Solland was. Giladis had the correct sketch, but for some reason his photos are no longer working.
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Its a shame really, becouse i would like to see that map, hopefully someone can sort that out.
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I can do up another map and post it.
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If you don't mind doing it then that would be great becouse with all of this talk about Sollond it's got me considering about restarting my Sollond army up again once i've done my Stirlanders.
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First blood to Solland :ph34r: :::cheers::: :-D
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I think it might be time that we got our part of the Solland campaign under way. Can't let those dirty rebels have all the fun you know.
...
His eyes shot open and he searched the darkness around him. His sight was drawn to a small flame of light that shone out of the darkness, illuminating a creased face, with ratty features. relief washed through his system as he noticed it was the face of his counsellor, Leopold Hanwiz.
"I'm sorry to disturb you my lord, but the latest news form the rest of the province has just arrived. I'm afraid it doesn't make good reading."
A frown slowly etched into his young, noble features as his eyes canned the piece of paper that had been placed in his hands. The murder of 2 tax collectors, 1 vineyard burnt to the ground, and increase in piracy upon the Upper Reik. The lands to the east of the River Soll, the former land of Solland, it seemed where experiencing some problems. Though the oddest thing was the final line, 'All noble land owners, of our glorious province of Wissenland, are summoned to a council in the city of Wissenburg'. Surely the situation in the south wasn't that dire, worse than the usual troubles in those lands, but calling a council was a bit extreme.
A slight sigh escaped his lips. "Wake the servants and tell them to prepare the carriage. i shall also want a small guard of soldiers, just encase."
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This is a bit premature for the story line that is occuring slowly over on the Ex-Province of Solland thread, and although it is the organizers' intent for Wissenland to come out on the winning end of this event, for it makes no sense to do otherwise at this point, it could be a good idea for us to be co-operating with one another along the way in writing the story. At this point rushing the timeline could be counter productive in developing the fluff. However, the writing is good, and we are very glad for those who desire to be part of creating the story. I actually like the idea of having the Wissenland perspective told here as well. In fact, I am contemplating the development of a Wissenland character and perhaps I'll include such here or on the Ex-Province of Solland thread. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
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Soooo, how do you think the Wissenlanders would react to the engineer's guild of Nuln sending out explorers, surveyors and eventually well drillers to the wilderness of wissenland. :icon_razz: we're looking for water really... no really really.
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Take a number. We're currently handling one pest at the moment and will get to you when the time is right. :wink:
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Were more like varment really :engel:
:::cheers:::
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I'd call it one of those irritating nagging feelings you get when you can't remember the middle name of Josef Stalin.
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or for that matter why exactly he is a famous figure.
snap, snap " I know this one, ummmm hang on he was a famous inventor of modern smelting or something wasn't he?" "Yeeeeah, Josef Bessemerski Stalin, steel is named after him and that there russian city the germans destroyed was kinda like Detroit, you know steel town." ..... :icon_razz:
or am I off base a touch :oops:
"no that's right he was some kind of politician locked up in a South African jail for years and years, for performing medical experiments on Jews during the American Civil war." :icon_razz:.....
still wrong? Well shoot.
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You know when you get the feeling something isn't quite right in the head? I got that feeling just before when I had a sudden apifany. I am a warhammer-empire.com fanatic.
I woke up this morning to splendid rain, I decided to break my fast. Looking in the pantry I realised I had no breaking fast cereal, so I jumped on my computer to look at my bank account. two hours later and I haven't checked any account whatsoever apart from reading all about Wissenland, how engineers are not getting better and whether the civil strife between Solland revolutuonaries and Wissenland will ever get posted on at least once a day. :happy:
Also regular pilgrimiges to this site have stopped me entirely from finishing the painting on my new all night goblin army with trolls and spider riders. So I can only paint when I go to GW for painting. GAH If only i could prioritise.
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Hi, I am starting a Empire army for Warhammer, and the Wissenland troops have attracted me from the get go. I was wondering that since the fluff says it is a poor province, without swordsmen or handgunners, could I add a Nuln contingent to make up that part? :unsure:
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Welcome to the forum, and to Wissenland! :::cheers:::
Of course, you can have a detachment from Nuln with little worries. Nuln and Wissenland have been attached in some way for quite some time in fluff.
Also, even though Wissenland is a poorer province, it is possible to have small numbers of both swordsmen and handgunners. This is assuming that you want to stick with the poor Wissenland motif, and there's nothing saying that you have to.
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Kleth: I have a sizeable Wissenland army made of archers and spearmen. To bring in the 'flash' units, i.e. handgunners and non common war machines I have recruited a contigent from Nuln lead by an engineer. Nothing wrong with that.
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I wouldn't say Wissenland is that poor. I mean they can, at least afford some relatively low-standard footwear, mostly made of cardboard - unlike some other provinces whom shall remain nameless...
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Alright, thanks for the help.
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another question, basic Warhammer related, what would be better as state troops for a 1000pt army; swordsmen, halberdier(with or without shields) or spearmen(with or without sheilds)?
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Simplest answer is swordsmen. If you would like to find out why, there are a littany of discussions in the Elector's Forum.
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Thanks Wissenland
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Fluff creation time! Where is everybody lay claim for towns and the like? I was thinking of creating mine around Scharmbeck... :ph34r:
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Dont let me stop you, but in terms of activities that are ongoing on this site, Scharmbeck is in the land claimed by the Solland secessionists, and is - since you asked "claimed" by Gamespoet
Sonnefurt, Thalfang and Osthausen are up for grabs if you want something in the same region though :)
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Fair enough, I did have a second choice in Nehren, which also is near the mountains
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I was going to say that's owned by Baroness von Mecklenberg, but I dont think thats official (just Mad Alfred official), it certainly has no mention in "Heirs of Sigmar"
Have a look on this thread > http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=26245.350
About halfway down Gamespoet has an excellent summation of who "claims" what lands but feel free to ignore it by all means :::cheers:::
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I've been working on Baron Eduard Dreisch in Scharmbeck and playing him as laying claim to Solland ancestery. I encourage a look at madalfred's site and if you have a copy of Sigmar's heirs, that could be good as well. There's a good map on that site if I recall, with maps on the W-E site, too, located on the Wissenland thread and the Ex-Province of Solland thread.
By the way, in Sigmar's Heirs, Scharmbeck is ruled by a Baron Vincentus Preiss. I'm imagining this was pre-SoC, and now the Dreisch's have control. If kleth wants to take on having the Preiss family use the Solland Effort as a reason to try to regain Scharmbeck for themselves again, this could make for part of "The Solland Effort of 2524"?
Let me know if you can't find the lists we prepped for "The Solland Effort of 2524". We have both a list of Political Affiliations and a list of the which sppots are being used by participants in the Solland Effort story campaign. If you pm me your email address I'd be happy to send them along to you.
Also, there is nothing to say you couldn't come up with your own imaginary town as well, sort of like Wissenlander has with Brennenburg, and I'm working on for my Averland characters.
:::cheers:::
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I am thinking about creating a town called Ritterburg to the south of Nehren near the mountains and the forest. Would that work with the Solland Secessionist Campaign? Because I am interested in joining that
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By all means feel free to join in, the more the merrier, just be aware that south of that river is the Solland strongholds :ph34r:
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By all means feel free to join in, the more the merrier, just be aware that south of that river is the Solland strongholds :ph34r:
I am prepared to be behind "enemy" lines.
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As a loyal Wissenlander, I thought it obvious to state my fealty and allegiance in this post.
Looking forward to sharing knowledge and stories about Wissenland with you guys.
Andy
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Well, I've decided, its Wissenland for me :biggriin:
I have been scouring the internet for information, and I must say you guys have accumulated a lot of information. The most interesting things I have found have been on Mad Alfred's site, that stuff is amazing. I have been reading through the gazetteers he has on there and have been trying to decide on a town. The two I am between are Episwald and Wusterburg.
Episwald is small, isolated town on the River Sol but has quite a lot to build on and a half decent military which could mean I could include decent troops. It has a monastery nearby, so could be an excuse to go down the religious route, and it has the definite countryside feel I like about Wissenland.
Wusterburg is a bit different. It is a large town in a league of villages, it is essentially the big town in the South. It has links with Karak Hirn so could be wealthy, allowing me to include Handgunners, Swordsmen or even eventually a Steam Tank. It also has the chance of suppressing rowdy Sollanders as it is on the border you guys have suggested.
Any ideas which I should go for? I want to elaborate greatly on the background (my favourite thing about Warhammer) and perhaps even right an epic story about two boys from Wissenland who end up a long way from their cosy little village.
Cheers
LP
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Welcome to the fold!
I would actually say to look at the Solland thread as well to get some other information about the province. If you're up for reading there's a lot of role playing stuff going on in that one about a Solland uprising and such. Both Episwald and Wusterburg featured heavily in that campaign. Ironically, Wusterburg was the hub of the insurectionist tendencies.
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Wow, just looked through some of the threat, and I must say that looks like it was an excellent project, but incredibly daunting for an outsider to even begin reading. Any idea on where abouts the towns in questioned were talked about, I used the search function but it wasn't particularly useful.
If Wusterburg is fairly insurrectionist, I might have to look into Episwald, even though it does look like that falls more into the territory of old Solland, hmmm. I don't want my leader to be unpopular so looks like I'll choose the place with the leader rebels...
A lot to think about, thanks for the pointers :happy:
LP
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I partook in it for a while and it was daunting for me as well, so don't feel bad. :icon_smile:
I'm not really sure of where in the thread the towns were commented on, but both Episwald and Wusterburg were fairly prominent. Wusterburg is Uryens de Crux's area and his character (of the same name) was quite the prominent figure. I believe the Episwald references were mainly from the Lector there and his perspective, but I could be wrong. Some of the other guys did a better job of keeping up with that stuff. And honestly, one of them could probably do a better job of it than I at explaining (GamesPoet, Uryens de Crux, Inarticulate, etc.).
I hesitate to tell you to form your fluff around that, though, however. This was a complete fan run thing and has no official standing so if you want to use Wusterburg or Episwald and take it in a different route than feel free to. I find the beginning of the Solland thread is better for people trying to figure out the history and landscape of Wissenland or Solland. The end (4-40 it seems :icon_eek: ) is just some fun what if stuff. If you want to fit in your theme with that that's fine as well, but don't let a bunch of us fanbois online tell you how to run your stuff. :wink:
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Hi Le Pistolet, Wissenlander <ack, I feel dirty just saying that ;) > has pointed me in your direction, when I get chance I will fill you in with the Episwald/Wusterburg situation, but as Wiss said, really dont feel preassured to conform to us if you dont want, I picked Wusterburg for the same reasons you like the look of it!
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Some of the town names are from known GW fluff, but others could just be from the madalfred site. Good portions of "The Solland Effort of 2524" project borrowed from that site for its creation. If I recall correctly, Episwald was taken from there, as was the idea of the Sigmarite Lector being in charge of the town. Various NPCs were divided up amoung some of the participants in the story campaign, and one of my roles was the Lector in Episwald, telling the story from his point of view while he worked away in the Grand Garden of Episwald, which was purely my own creation for the Lector and the town.
The event was almost a year long effort during a time when there were seemingly no internet campaigns going on, and gave a good reason for some of us to play games, write stories, model & paint. It was set after the current GW year of 2522 I.C. during what was shown in one fluff calender as a time period called the "Dark Years", 2523 to 2526, which beyond that name, nothing else has been provided by GW. We chose 2524 because we figured it would have taken at least a year for ideas to form in the characters minds, and provide time for the agreeements that were made with some Solland allies, that were found in the Northern Border Prince areas. Some of us took characters we've developed and used this to provide more to them, others of us created new charatcers specifically for that event. I suspect that those who partook in the story campaign will carry some of their fluff into other things at somepoint, and I've even contemplated writing more in the thread itself regarding the story line of my characters, because as the Animosity 4 event got started, I became distracted and unfortunately stopped participating.
I'm thinking of rereading it at some point to use as inspiration for a future campaign similar to that one, although what will develop out of that is far from being determined, and initial ideas are vague at best.
There really is no reason why a person can't create their own fluff for any of the Wissenland towns. If it bothers you that GW might come along and write something that conflicts with your's, than it might be better to create your own along the lines of how folks like Wissenlander, Derek Contyre, and I have created locations from which our fluff characters come from.
For us fans who put significant time and energy into "The Solland Effort of 2524", our fluff going forward might always be colored by the fun we had during that story campaign. :::cheers:::
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If you want to fit in your theme with that that's fine as well, but don't let a bunch of us fanbois online tell you how to run your stuff. :wink:
I have complete respect for what you guys did, it was truly epic, and I for one would love to be part of something like that again in the future, it sounds like you had a brilliant time. I think I'd rather respect your 'fanboi' stuff and be part of this community properly, just in case you have any campaigns based in Wissenland in the future I could take part and write in (I don't get to game very often at all)
Hi Le Pistolet, Wissenlander <ack, I feel dirty just saying that ;) > has pointed me in your direction, when I get chance I will fill you in with the Episwald/Wusterburg situation, but as Wiss said, really dont feel preassured to conform to us if you dont want, I picked Wusterburg for the same reasons you like the look of it!
Now, you see, this is why I joined this forum, you guys have the best community out there :happy:
I would love to see some stuff about the two areas, even if I do decide to build my own town, it will definitely be in that area, so the information would influence you greatly. I will leave you to occupy Wusterburg, but I will be close by, vying to steal your lands... :ph34r:
Cheers guys, Wissenland seems to be the place to be for fluff maniacs like us. :::cheers:::
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It's true, there's a lot of inspiration to be found in this province. Lots of places and ideas to explore.
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Wiss' point is rock solid.
When I started my Empire army in 2008, I seriously considered Wissenland because of the strength of its background. I went with Averland instead, equally strong flavor for fluff, and prefered the color scheme. However, I gave Heinrich von Furstenberg and his older brother, a deceased father who married their mother, and she claims Solland descent. I'm glad the two current provinces and the former are in a way linked together.
Lots of great stuff.
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Well,
I went down the river a bit, and stumbled upon a town called Sonnefurt, and I think I've found a place to call my own. Surrounded by the Solland strongholds of Scharmbeck and Kreutzhoffen to the South and Wusterburg to the North, whilst still being Wissenland through and through gives me a chance to crush you insurrectionists. I have made myself a map, taking the best from the maps in the library and the maps on Mad Alfred's site, and added in a few small villages to make the place more my own. I will boost the population from Mad Alfred's suggestions too, as I the populations he suggested would mean that essentially entire villages form regiments in my army...
I will have some meaningful fluff up soon in the Imperial Office, and I hope you guys will check it out :happy:
But for now, for the Baroness, for Wissenland!
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I am sure we annexed that place in not time, so feel free to have it back :D
At the end of it all (as was our aim all along) nothing changed at all in terms of control, all territory captured was returned to its rightful owners etc and the stalemate continued
But it will be nice to have some simmering local rivalries going on :::cheers:::
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SEO2524 was brilliant and I had immense fun as both the dastardly Black Don and the beleaguered and under-equipped General Hans von Plauten of Wissenland.
I would definitely enjoy another campaign similar to this, there were very flexible rules and everything was agreed upon to both create a nice story and make sure everyone had a good time playing in it. I also made some excellent friends!
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But it will be nice to have some simmering local rivalries going on :::cheers:::
Your on! :::cheers:::
I would definitely enjoy another campaign similar to this, there were very flexible rules and everything was agreed upon to both create a nice story and make sure everyone had a good time playing in it. I also made some excellent friends!
Sounds brilliant, if you have another one soon, then I'd love to take part :happy:
EDIT: My fluff is up now in the Imperial Office: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=33327.msg499535#new
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As mentioned, I've got ideas for some, actually took a few moments to write some things down after folks started talking about the last one here. Problem are ... with the T&G campaign moving full speed ahead, and my ideas needing more time to brew anyway, ... there's plenty to be occupied with before starting another story campaign.
The SE of 2524 was set up to move in real time across the scope of 2009, so that as the months moved past in real time, so did they in fantasy time. This was done in order to reduce the intensity often experienced during some internet campaigns and povide plenty of time for development with games, stories, projects, and behind the scenes organization. To do something similar again, it could likely need to be based in a similar way. This year isn't looking good for that, but hopefully at some point. Whether or not it takes place in Wissenland could be questionable, but that doesn't mean a Wissenlander couldn't find a role in whatever shape things do take.
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I did enjoy that campaign immensely, my first online roleplay campaign basically lol
I had huge fun writing stories, battles and descriptive pictures with inart, wiss, uryens and gamespoet.
Great, now I feel the need to read it al again, nice one guys ::heretic::
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If ever I find myself not working I might well collate it all and put it into some sort of narrative, but that would require a LOT of effort!
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Uryens ... I've thought of the same thing, but the effort could be huge. I've also wanted to go back and put some sort of finishing touch on the area where Von Furstenberg was involved as well, yet I continue to have other things taking up my time.
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In my research for more information on Sonnefurt, I came across vast amounts of information on Sudenland.
http://www.strike-to-stun.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/the_rising_shadow_final1.pdf
Some really good stuff there, like feast days along the River Soll, a map of Eppiswald, and other such things.
Hope someone can find it useful :happy:
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Good stuff, though its taken some divergence from the GW histories these days (especially the history of sudenland etc)
But it is good to know that Nunez is still writing stuff for WFRP, and I love thiose maps!
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Wow. Quite a bit of effort put into that find. I've printed the info to have a hard copy.
During the Solland Effort of 2524, I took on the role of the Lector and his henchmen, and wrote of his musings in what I called the "Eppiswald Grand Garden" of the abbey. I envisoned the abbey more inside the walls of the town, and the Lector having strong ties to the Sigmarite Church, yet it could work either way. I'm liking the idea that the Lector's coat of arms and colors are a crossed torch and hammer on a red field with black trim. My interest in Wissenland has increased over the last two years, and despite my initial and continuing interest in Averland, intend to model more units for them at some point, and this has gotten me to thinking about a unit that represents the Lector's men-at-arms.
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Hail, Wissenlanders!
I've just started with the Empire and Wissenland is one of my top choices for provinces/city-states. I like the color scheme; simple, but enough to stand out. I'm also a fan of the province's white lion symbol. I think Wissenland is one of the provinces with most character; its inhabitants independent and strong since Countess Emmanuelle doesn't give a care for the province. Heh, I hate her as much as they do!
Because the province lacks military funding for weapons like cannons, I was wondering if an artillery regiment from Nuln might come to Wissenland's aid in times of need. Though wouldn't the Countess need to have sent them there? Maybe assistance from Averland would make more sense, or Reikland depending on the location.
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Assistance probably depends on things like money, values, politics, etc.
And because most anything can be created through fluff, there is probably a way for many things to be ok.
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I have a large Wissenland army and all the flash stuff is from Nuln. Engineers, rocket launchers, helblasters and handgunners. Cannons I considered simple enough and cheap enough to be part of the Wissenland main army as well as the mortars. The imperial forge is on their door step after all.
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Hmm, sounds neat. Though just how poor is Wissenland anyhow? In Uniforms and Heraldry of the Empire, the illustrations of Wissenland soldiers don't quite portray them as under-equipped. In fact, all the soldiers displayed wear some form of armor and look rather professional. Not to mention there's an illustration of a Wissenland volley gun.
Also, which towns have already been "claimed" by other users?
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Some folks even make up their own towns, and that way one's it doesn't conflict as much with GW fluff.
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The fluff says that the state army trains hard and the background on wissenlanders is that they are a taciturn people. They however have links with Tilea, the river of echoes runs from there to tilea under the mountains hence they tend to use xbow rather than handguns and have pikemen. They are also famous for their horse archers but not sure how you'd include them with out some DOW allies.
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You could potentially use horse archers as counts as pistoliers. Also, though the province in general may be poorer, this doesn't have to reflect upon the standing army. Every province should have a basic well funded and equipped army. The size of which may vary depending on how wealthy the province is.
You can claim any town you want, or even make up your own. However, if you want to take a look at stuff others on the forum have done, check this thread and the Solland one for more detail. It won't cover everyone, but it will cover a lot.
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I know background is an integral part to the armies of most of those players who choose Wissenland, and as a province it has the greatest community of fluff obsessed writes, so I thought this would be the best way to contact you all to alert you to a new background opportunity.
I have set up an experiment in fluff coordination, by offering any eligible gentleman in Wissenland and the Empire Sonnefurt's Baroness' hand in marriage.
More details can be found here:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=38172.msg598937#new
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Me again :icon_rolleyes: :-P
Just wondering if anyone happens to know anything about two towns in South Wissenland called Michelfurt and Wurbaum?
There are on this map here from MadAlfred: http://www.madalfred.darcore.net/maps/Southern_Wissenland.gif
Between Kreutzhofen and Sonnefurt, bordering the River Michel and near the Tierhugel Mine.
As far as I can see from the Gazeteer they as not owned by anyone, neither Scharmbeck nor Kreutzhofen.... In fact, there are several small towns around that area that don't appear to be under Kreutzhofen control.
Now I don't want to be greedy, but after the Wedding, I might launch an annexation of these two towns (in my alternate timeline of course so that new players can still take them up) so that Sonnefurt can expand its minor mining business using the River Michel. Obviously this would annoy a lot of people and could provide plothooks for a Scharmbeck-Kreutzhofen vs Sonnefurt war....
So yeah, just wanted to know if anyone knew anything about them, or am I free to make up what I want?
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There are a few places like this that crop up on one map and not another, or are missed from gazetteers. I think in most cases they are more like a collection of farmhouses that might not exist past a few years
In short, go for your life you land hungry tart ;)
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Says the Baron of Wusterburg, owner of no fewer than 9 towns? :-P
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It was nine, before the solland effort lol
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hehe so its 11 now then :mrgreen:
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Well i'm going to say that I have one... :biggriin:
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Hi!
New to the forums and thinking about starting a Wissenland army. This thread was great but I was googling for even more information and the Toppenheimer-family came up in a description for Wissenland
"Countess Emmanuelle von Liebwitz is the ruler of both Nuln and Wissenland. She spends all her time in Nuln and cares little for the rest of the province. Recently she has has tried to make Nuln completely separate and independent from 'dreary' Wissenland. If she manages that she would retain Nuln and her electoral vote, whilst the province would be given to the Toppenheimer family. " This information is from http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Wissenland
Trying to find out who the Toppenheimer was did not give any bigger success the only info i got was that Grand Baroness Etelka Toppenheimer was the ruler of Sudenland ( the sudenland that no longer exsists) from an outdated page http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Empire_%28outdated%29
So does anybody know anything about the Toppenheimers? Perhaps the info from warhammeronline is wrong?
Also does anybody have any info on what happend to former ruler of wissenland Count Bruno Pfeifraucher when Emmanuella took over Wissenland?
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According to Sigmar's Heirs the Toppenheimers are still around and, I believe, are quite prominent. Don't have the book with me so I don't have the exacts on the gazeteer. Also, Count Pfeifraucher still has two towns, Kreutzhofen and one other that slips my mind currently, I think it's up on the border with Reikland.
Some of this info won't ever be fully reconciled because they change names of rulers with edition changes at times and don't explain how the succession process went about.
Welcome to the best province around! :::cheers:::
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According to Sigmar's Heirs ...
Countess von Liebwitz has jurisdiction over Nuln with its 18 associated villagess, as well as Wissenburg with its 5 associated villages and Meissen with its 3 associated villages.
Baroness Molly Toppenheimer is in charge of Geschburg with its 2 villages, and Pfeildorf with its 4 villages.
Count Pfeifraucher rules in Kreutzhoffen over 1 village.
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However, there is also the madalfred website which expands on the Wissenland Province more than Sigmar's Heir's, yet parts of that seem to be fan based only. Here is a link ... http://www.madalfred.darcore.net/
That site has a lot of material the author has put together and is not necessarily from GW. At the same time, some folks around here often refer to that site in the development of their personal fluff or in combination with folks who frequent this Warhammer-Empire.
In that information, Etelka has been switched for Molly, because that was the original name used in WFRP 1st edition. Geschburg then includes 4 villages, Pheildorf has 13, plus there is Pforzen with 1, and Sexau with 2.
For Von Liebwitz its still all the same, with Nuln at 18, Wissenburg at 5, and Meissen at 3.
Meanwhile, that site gives Pfeifraucher's first name as Bruno, with him having Grissenwald and Kelgard, both with no villages, and Kreutzhoffen has 2 villages.
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I think it mentions those villages for Pfeifraucher in Sigmar's Heirs, they just may be in the Reikland section. I know there's some form of weirdness there.
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Good point. Grissenwald is listed with Reikland in Sigmar's Heirs, and with Count Bruno Pfeifraucher in charge.
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The list mad alfred have done over the city's seems to place the Baroness Toppenheimer as the biggest ruler of towns, after Emmanuelle of course. Well guess I only have to pick a town and decide on some fun fluff for it to give future characters some story. Hard part is picking the mad alfred list is real fun reading though spent a big deal of my evening looking at it and the on the map and so back and forth. That and reading post on the forum with wissenland in them.
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Righty ho...
When it was Sudenland the rulers were the Von Mecklenbergs, the last elector of Sudenland, Baron Johan von Mecklenberg abdicated his rights to his cousin after spending years hunting down a chaos warband that sacked his family estates (q.v. Ignorant Armies)
IIRC the new Elector of Wissenaland, was weak and easily manipulated and eventually was killed for being a chaos worshipper (but he might have been set up by Liebewitz so she could have Wissenland) and the electoral vote passed to the Leibewitz's when Sudenland was absorbed into Wissenland again.
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Some might enjoy reading the Solland thread here on this site. Its relatively long due to the long fluff writing campaign done in 2009 entitled, "The Solland Effort of 2524". And there are a decent number of hobbiest frequenting this site involved with the newest story line being explored on the "Wedding in Wissenland" thread, too. This latter item I believe has been set in 2526.
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I was reading my empire armybook and found this text about solland and sudenland on page 18.
"The river Solis the southernmost of the Empire´s rivers, cutting through what was once the the province of Solland. now part of Wissenland since Gorband Ironclaw´s invasion, there are some people of the Empire, mostly nobels from families thar once lived Solland, that refer to this region as Sudenland and refuse to acknowledge the rights of the Wissenland count."
Is this GW way of trying to smooth over the fact that they changed the name from Sudenland to Solland? To me it seems kind of strange that they would start calling the region by a new name if they are so in to tradition that they refuse to acknowledge the of the Wissenland count.
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I've always seen it as a small way to try and reconcile the issue.
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Ive always seen it as rubbish GW fluff writers not checking pre-existing info...
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Before that, yes. But if it was just down to shoddy writing they would've come up with a completely different name as opposed to bringing back stuff that hasn't been relevant for years.
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Hello Everyone!
Been on the forum for a little while so I figured I should post in my provincial thread.
I started Empire about 7 months ago(had some models from a few years back during my first attempt). I have decided on Wissenland. Not sure which town I'm going to choose for my Baron Karl von Balombine, General(Marshal) of the Empire.
The picture of my avatar is one of my Greatswords I finished. In Wissenland grey and white colors of course(I'll replace it with my general when I've glued his head on).
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Fantastic choice well done, and it's nice to see a true Wissenlander in these parts, not one of them no good Solland sympathisers!
:::cheers:::
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Why thank you for the welcome.
I glanced at/bookmarked your webpage and I must say Bravo! :eusa_clap:
I am toying with the idea for my barronages fluff containing a decendants from some solland refugees that were happily welcommed into the community and have intergrated with no angst whatsoever with the wissenland people. Because obviously they have graciously appreciated the help they recieved and are proud to call themselves Wissenlanders! Some families may carry on coats of arms and colors from the solland days but the is simply out of respect for their families heritage.
Afterall, anyone who speaks against Wissenland, the Countess, or the Emperror, deserves to die a traitors death. Hmmm? :icon_smile:
And I'll throw in some fluff about a nearby troup of dwarf miners that worship a forrest lady with the last name White, first name Snow.
....or maybe a distant cousin of Joesph Bugman set up a tavern in town and brought a blacksmith buddy to make armour for my greatswords.
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So, I'm reading the Sigmar Trilogy, I've discussed it on the bolthole forums but was wondering what you thought. I was told the map at the front of the book was wrong, and in fact the Wissenland province is actually descended from the Merogens, not the Menogoths, the Menogoths were in fact the descendants of the Sollanders, do you agree with this? It kind of makes more sense now that I've started the third book due to the order of things.
I've also decided to adopt Oshausen as my "little" town, that's if no one else here has :) I've decided it holds a small Garrison of Knights of the Gold Lion as it was Oshausen they stayed at for a rest when they were returning from the crusade and since then a small keep of Gold Lion troops is maintained here, not just out of honour but also due to the dangers of the mountains.
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According to the Lexicanum website Solland's Borders were: The river Sol as its north west, The upper Reik as its north east and the black mountain's forming its southern border. The capital being Pfeildorf....