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Author Topic: The Minotaurs: End Times?... or Good Times?!  (Read 500611 times)

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1575 on: January 12, 2010, 03:42:07 PM »
I have seen Orcs smash demons and vampires and I have seen orc players that are childish, all complaining idiots. So the army doesnīt make you great itself you need some Waaaaagh in your blood.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1576 on: January 12, 2010, 03:42:21 PM »
Outlawing special characters no matter what their special rules are is pretty stupid in my book.

Well, your book is rubbish.


It's nothing to do with how powerful they are. They are just lame.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1577 on: January 12, 2010, 03:43:48 PM »
I have seen Orcs smash demons and vampires and I have seen orc players that are childish, all complaining idiots. So the army doesnīt make you great itself you need some Waaaaagh in your blood.

Those weren't orc players.

They were degenerate goblinoids.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1578 on: January 12, 2010, 03:45:15 PM »
Outlawing special characters no matter what their special rules are is pretty stupid in my book.

Well, your book is rubbish.


It's nothing to do with how powerful they are. They are just lame.

But than a steam tank is lame, grail knights are lame, blood knights are also lame....most of the rare choices are lame as there are only a handful of individuals in the whole old world that fit to their description.


Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1579 on: January 12, 2010, 03:45:57 PM »
I have seen Orcs smash demons and vampires and I have seen orc players that are childish, all complaining idiots. So the army doesnīt make you great itself you need some Waaaaagh in your blood.

Those weren't orc players.

They were degenerate goblinoids.

And how would you seperate the orc players?

Black orc

savage orc

usual john do orc


Offline MrDWhitey

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1580 on: January 12, 2010, 03:49:37 PM »
Something like that.
I thought he should act responsibly and just kill himself.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1581 on: January 12, 2010, 03:49:56 PM »
But than a steam tank is lame, grail knights are lame, blood knights are also lame....most of the rare choices are lame as there are only a handful of individuals in the whole old world that fit to their description.

No, it's just the special characters (though as it happens blood knights are lame, but for another reason).

They are lame because they are pre-made characters.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1582 on: January 12, 2010, 03:52:02 PM »
Now you are running off into a strange direction rufus. This is a wargame, not a RPG. You can treat it as such, but that isn't really a given.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1583 on: January 12, 2010, 03:52:48 PM »
Well the average characters are also quite fix if you compare the most army lists, there are the magic items that are good and there are the junk ones of course you could take the dawn armour instead of the armour of meteoric iron for your foot bsb but well the other one is just better.



I would like a system where you could buy a large variety of mundane kit, magical kit and special rules but to balance something like that would be impossible.

Warhammer isnīt great at balancing and also at customization of your single models still a great game (otherwise we wouldnīt play it) BUT special characters donīt change the whole game.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1584 on: January 12, 2010, 03:54:04 PM »
Quote
Now you are running off into a strange direction

Actually, I'm just stating my opinion.


Which, as it happens, is also a fact. How convenient!


Quote
special characters donīt change the whole game.

I know. I just don't like them! That's all.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1585 on: January 12, 2010, 03:55:32 PM »
I dislike models or rules that are crap, not even under special circumstances compared to other choices. Magical items, characters, units, dice, underwear etc.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1586 on: January 12, 2010, 03:55:37 PM »
I know. I just don't like them! That's all.
Well, that is your right I guess. Until the revolution comes!

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1587 on: January 12, 2010, 04:52:11 PM »
Canīt you just skip commenting then, Rufus? Itīs not like we donīt know your reactionary view on special character. Come back when you changed your mind maybe... Or just put it in your sig or something.  :dry:

Honestly Rufus, facts are that today many alternatives that where once customisable via items or in some other ways you where able to get them, now are tied up to special Characters.
You say people whose style of army now need a special character are lame because they donīt do as you command and play the same Rufus vanilla list?

For Imperial guard, this is quite profound. If you really want to make a nifty light infantry army that donīt just look the part but can act the part, you will need to take Al-Rahem as himself or rename him.

And for that matter, GW, including Jervis Johnson in what must have been a preparatory article for the change in WD wrote and clearly said that you sdhould NOT see the special characters as only a fixed character. They are archetypes!

It is not just the Ultramarines that got a badass sniper Scout sergeant, nor is Al-Rahem the only dashing light infantry commander in the Imperial guard!
GW decided to do this since the old systems with traits and skil&Drills where missused.
It was easier to balance things if some special stuff was tied to special characters and then encourage the gamers to use the SC less rigidly and treat them like archetypical heroes.

Theo nly way to get Catachan devils are to field gunnery sergeant harken andwhy should players in your vincity be ridiculed for taking Harken to field the most badass Cartachans there are?
Or if I want to field Try Again Bragg, Harken is possibly the best bet. Still he shotys better tyhan Bragg.
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1588 on: January 12, 2010, 04:54:38 PM »
I don't think you randomly took my comments personally enough this time. Try again later!
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Shadowlord

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1589 on: January 12, 2010, 05:30:31 PM »
I don't think you randomly took my comments personally enough this time. Try again later!

Knowing you, that will be much sooner than you think...
My hood is my castle...

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1590 on: January 12, 2010, 05:37:28 PM »
40k is different than Warhammer fantasy though, the special characters in 40k are usually as easy to kill as their unspecial counterparts PLUS you have no magic items to boost your unspecial counterparts (only equipment).

Still I like to use special characters once in a while.

Offline Shadowlord

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1591 on: January 12, 2010, 05:38:41 PM »
SC are ace in bigger games and makes for a much more interesting experience.

Just like sex, which you know, is alien to most here...
My hood is my castle...

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1592 on: January 12, 2010, 05:39:40 PM »
se.....what?



Offline Shadowlord

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1593 on: January 12, 2010, 05:43:42 PM »
Let me clarify... When a man meets a woman, or a boy meets a girl...

Yeah I know the sex part was childish, but SC truly are working better with larger scenarios as their impact will be less than in smaller games. Through the dozen or more Legendary Battles we have played special characters have always been present and in a good way too.

Even Thorek didn't have much game changing rules in 10,000 vs 10,000 pts.
My hood is my castle...

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1594 on: January 12, 2010, 05:45:10 PM »
Also if both sides use them everything is fine.

I have yet to play a Legendary battle, do you usually play in teams against each other or one on one the whole day?

Offline Shadowlord

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1595 on: January 12, 2010, 05:47:06 PM »
I have yet to play a Legendary battle, do you usually play in teams against each other or one on one the whole day?

A whole day works best, with even breaks, and the wives playing with our credit cards somewhere they can't reach us.
My hood is my castle...

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1596 on: January 12, 2010, 05:50:34 PM »
10 000 points hmmmmm when do you quite empire and pick up beastmen, I would even pay for some of your fantastic minis.

Offline Siberius

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1597 on: January 12, 2010, 05:59:49 PM »
I played against Volkmar the other day and it really wasn't as bad an experience as all that.

I still prefer not using them unless specifically mutually agreeing, but it was a fun game and he made for an interesting story concept.

I know I should just read the rules rumours, but is ambush totally gone now too?
Quote from: PhillyT
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1598 on: January 12, 2010, 06:01:53 PM »
nope but you need a unit as large as the ambush unit on the table to ambush (at least that is what the rumour says).

Offline Finlay

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Re: Minotaurs (The Beasts are Back!!)
« Reply #1599 on: January 12, 2010, 06:05:24 PM »
Let me clarify... When a man meets a woman, or a boy meets a girl...

Yeah I know the sex part was childish, but SC truly are working better with larger scenarios as their impact will be less than in smaller games. Through the dozen or more Legendary Battles we have played special characters have always been present and in a good way too.

Even Thorek didn't have much game changing rules in 10,000 vs 10,000 pts.

Are you saying we should have sex with fat chicks?
I don't care about the rules.

Pass the machete.