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Author Topic: The Minotaurs: End Times?... or Good Times?!  (Read 502311 times)

Offline phillyt

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2525 on: June 09, 2010, 11:13:21 AM »
There is an even split as to whether it will be 25% lord 25% heroes or just a flat 25% character alotment.

Again, DE will be diminished under the new rules.  Much of what made them powerful were their core fast cavalry.  That fast cavalry is now tied to larger, 200+ point untis which makes it harder to deploy them.  Add the reduced usefulness of harpies, dragons and hydras being castrated, and allowing everyone to field decent magic with only a couple wizards and you have them back with everyone else.

Beastmen will be perhaps the biggest winners in this shift to 8th.

Phil
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2526 on: June 10, 2010, 01:05:20 AM »
I'm not sure about that assessment Philly.

Depending on how the books are FAQed. I'm hearing magic is 2d6 PD each magic phase with the highest d6 = opponents DD.

Combined with the other rumour that you add your level to your die roll so a lv1 castin a 4+ spell only needs a 3 means Dark elves will be able to get ridiculous amounts of "extra" power dice thanks to power of darkness spell, more so then any other army which could realistically make a massive shift to delves in the magic phase.

You can know make an absolute monster unit with your spearmen. 30 spearmen with fc/warbanner is only 225pts.  you get to fight in 3 ranks as spears + master with ASF banner (so at ASF + I5 they'll get re-roll to hit every round of combat) throw in Killing Blow buff from the couldron) and if they have more ranks they'll be stubborn 9... thats not bad. Even 50 spearmen with FC/WB is 345pts + master in my usual set up 177 plus couldron 225. Still significantly cheaper then current "death stars" plus naturally you'd have an assassin in the unit  :engel:

cheap specials as well. You get 2 Hydras and 4 bolt throwers (you rare cap apparently) for 750pts exactly which is nasty enough to face.

I'm sure beasts will get a big buff, some items that made no sense in 7th all of a sudden do like the 10pt +1 initiative item etc. I don't know the book well enough to really comment but I think Dwarfs will be getting a nice buff and so will empire.
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Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2527 on: June 10, 2010, 02:04:42 AM »
So here is a list that I am planning on taking to a local Tourney. At first glance it might seem a little silly, but I am unfortunate to play against a lot of top tier lists, and most of them use a lot of cav (read Chaos Knights) and the ones that don't play LM, Daemons, and Elves of both the H and D variety. This list is made to grind grind grind.

Doombull, axes of khorgor, trollhide, uncanny reflexes

Gorebull, heavy armor, shield, bsb, The Beast Banner, Gnarled Hide, Gouge-Tusks, Many-limbed fiend.

Bray Shaman level 2, staff of darkoth (Shadow)

Bray shaman level 2, Hagtree Fetish, Dispel Scroll (Death)

Tuskgor Chariot

Tuskgor Chariot

Tuskgor Chariot

Minotaurs (4) great weapons

Minotaurs (4) Additional Hand Weapons

Jabberslythe

Ghorgon

2250 points.

After three test games (two minor losses and a draw) I have decided to remove the Ghorgon and replace him with harpies and ungor raiders. I had somewhat planned this anyway, but I wanted to test the Ghorgon. The only game the Ghorgon made his points back was against Slaanesh daemons (a game that ended with me having a single unit of minotaurs and him having only his greater daemon left, a minor loss for me). The Jabber is AWESOME. He won't kill units on his own (believe me, I tried. Even rear charged grail knights stood up to him) but he makes his points back in every game. In fact, against Brettonians he took care of 5 pegasus knights (admittedly with Chariot help) killed some guys with his insanity bubble, and tongued a man-at-arms, then, when a paladin dealt the final two wounds to him, the bile blood hits killed the paladin! Fun times! I faced Daemons, Lizardmen with a slaan and 2 EotG's, and Brettonians. I would have beaten the LM player except I rolled a 1 on a pursuit after I mauled a block of 20 saurus warriors and the 4 surviving dino dudes ran away (LM player was PISSED that I mauled his block so easy :engel: ) This allowed him to charge with his steg and deal 7! impact hits, which he would do two more times with the same steg! Jerk.

The bret player combined a couple of lances into my general's unit, and rolled ridiculous, killing all four of my supporting minotaurs and then running down my fleeing general. I later pummeled his general and all but his knights errant and BSB. Ghorgon took 5 wounds from archers, then whiffed both times when I tried to eat the paladin that the jabber later bled all over. Ghorgon's terror was enough to make the Tree-bucket crew flee off the board though. Chariots were pros. Took down a whole unit of men-at-arms with a single chariot charge (in the front!), and distracted his Tree-bucket the one turn it was able to fire.

Overall I enjoyed this list, and it scares the crap out of folks when you plop down only 17 models. I found myself time and again wishing I had raiders and harpies, so I will add them to this list in place of the Ghorgon, and take it to the tournament this weekend. I do not see myself missing the Ghorgon. He's fun, but he is about 50 points too expensive in this edition.
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Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2528 on: June 10, 2010, 08:39:13 AM »
Comp Scores for the Local Tournament:
15 pts are possible:

Number of pts spent on characters?
1-675 (3 pts)
676-900 (2 pts)
901-1124 (1 pts)
1125+ (0 pts)

How many points are spent on troops?
900+ (3 pts)
675-899 (2 pts)
450-674 (1 pts)
1-449 (0 pts)

Does the list contain two or more terror causers?
yes (0 pts), no (3 pts)

How many war machines/chariors?
0-1 (3 pts)
2-3 (2 pts)
4-6 (0 pts)

More than 10 power dice?
yes (0 pts), no (3 pts)

Comp Scores are added to the Battle points to determine final score, and they are also used to determine pairings in the first round. "Cheezy" armies paired against each other. Out of 15 points my list scores 10 for Comp. This is mostly because I only have 372 points of core troops. I trimmed down my characters to fit in more stuff, and now that i have under 900 points of characters I get more points for that. The previous list I showed would have netted me only 6 points for Comp.

Moving on from there, here is my finalized list.

335 - Doombull (general) Axes of Khorgor, Trollhide, Uncanny Senses

245 - Gorebull (battle standard bearer) great weapon, shield, Blackened Plate (specifically for the Khorne Daemon player who likes the +1str flaming swords), Gouge-Tusks, Gnarled Hide

160 - Bray-Shaman (level 2) Shard of the Herdstone

155 - Bray-Shaman (level 2) Hagtree Fetish, Dispel Scroll

80 - Tuskgor Chariot

80 - Tuskgor Chariot

80 - Tuskgor Chariot

33 - Ungor Raiders (5) musician

33 - Ungor Raiders (5) musician

33 - Ungor Raiders (5) musician

33 - Ungor Raiders (5) musician

55 - Harpies (5)

55 - Harpies (5)

275 - Jabberslythe

55 - Chaos Spawn

55 - Chaos Spawn

2250 - Total


I'm pretty much talking to myself I've noticed  :biggriin: , but it has helped to bounce these ideas around. I really want the Beastmen to make a good showing at this tournament. Hopefully I'll finally remember the impact hits for my minos that I forget EVERY TIME.

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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2529 on: June 10, 2010, 08:48:49 AM »
No worries, I read your posts with great interest. I just don't have anything to contribute. :icon_wink:

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2530 on: June 10, 2010, 08:55:03 AM »
 :happy:
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2531 on: June 10, 2010, 08:56:03 AM »
No worries, I read your posts with great interest. I just don't have anything to contribute. :icon_wink:

what he said.
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Offline phillyt

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2532 on: June 10, 2010, 10:41:46 AM »
Bies:  Those charge spells are dependant upon getting the spell off.  Even more than before, you counter those power dice spells and they won't be able to take advantage of them.  They are then forced to use the handful of dice remaining to get those spells off.  As for the big spearman blocks, once a master is added and the banner, you are looking at almost 400 points.  FOr a unit full of S3 attacks.  You could mill your way through that with surprising speed using minotaur, gor, or centigor.  There is no way DE are going to get better under this edition.  I think you are going to be shocked at how some armies previously viewed as bad are going to move up.

Take a look at the Orc and goblin book and tell me where they are not about to leap crazily towards the front under the new edition.  cheap bolt throwers, catapults which no longer need to guess.  Goblin doom divers now capable of devastating units with no guessing and the ability to move back towards units the miss.  Block orcs with a good number of attacks and hordes of night goblins with nets.  The night goblin spear units will do terrible damage to that DE spearman block.  Once the nets hit, those DE are only S2.  With the rediculous cost of goblin heroes, every goblin unit will feature one!

Cannonofdoom:  FIght the good fight and know that beasts will be ever better shortly!

Phil
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2533 on: June 10, 2010, 10:51:47 AM »
Philly,

I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses here. I've already seen how big a boost O&G will be getting, frankly Dwarfs as well will be getting a boost imo.

I'm still staying delves will beat beastmen. Sorry but I've got no issues taking out minotaurs now and the things I take your mino's out with aren't being changed, infact they're becoming better (repeater crossbowmen & Ninja assassins).

Your chariots will become very nasty correct, I don't mean to be saying beastmen won't be getting a boost or even reaching top tier I just thinking Delves are still going to be nasty due to our highly effective and incredibly cheap special options.

I'm just not seeing so far many penalties to Delves with the rumours I'm hearing (that may be a better way of putting it, while Beastmen and O&G are getting "buffs" with the new edition, Daemons and vamps appear like they're going to get penalized slightly. Delves don't appear to be shifting in a major way either direction).

Our characters are hardly expensive compared to the other 2 top tier armies atm either (daemons/vamps)
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2534 on: June 10, 2010, 10:59:17 AM »
And let's not forget that the DE magic items still vary between "wtf are they serious?" (bad items) and "wtf are they serious?" (good items).

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2535 on: June 10, 2010, 11:08:30 AM »
Well, every Army has that. Look at beastmen as an excellent example. There's the completely useless 100 point Primeval Club. Why would you ever take it?

Then there's the 15 point Gnarled Hide. Why would you ever NOT take it?

Pelt of the Shadowgave is also a GOOD item.

Banner of Outrage? Useless.

The Beast Banner? Awesome.

Empire Banner of Duty? Banner of the Daemonslayer? Speculum at the other end.

There's stuff like that in every book. The only magic item list I can honestly say off the top of my head doesn't have any truly useless items is O&G.

... Maybe the Big Red Raggedy Banner...
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Offline Gneisenau

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2536 on: June 10, 2010, 11:23:00 AM »
True. It's just that I think the DE book really takes the cake here, thanks to a certain pendant.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2537 on: June 10, 2010, 11:32:55 AM »
...and some Ring or other.

Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2538 on: June 10, 2010, 01:52:51 PM »
the ring affects me too and there are many armies that can get through the rings defence and many armies where it really doesn't matter.

Although 25pts is a laugh.

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Offline phillyt

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2539 on: June 10, 2010, 05:24:14 PM »
DE are going to suffer much more than they are going to gain.  A few things that will fundamentally alter the reasons why they are so good:

1.  The death of dark rider swarms.  Dark riders will now run in groups of 10+ rather than 5.  This will make them far juicier to kill and much tougher to sacrifice.
2.  The castration of the hydra.  No terror bubble, no immunity to difficult terrain, once per game breath weapon, and an I2 which lets people murder those handlers before the thing gets to attack.  Also no removing ranks on flank charges.  The hydra was a huge factor in the success of the army in many cases.  It is now only a so-so pick over the RBT's.
3.  The uselessness of harpies.  Can be march blocked, are expensive, don't have the attacks to really do much.
4. Assassins becoming easy points.  With 2 wounds and a T2, they are not a problem anymore.  Since units fill in, they can freely chop away at a front rank, but they won't last more than 2 rounds against almost anything.  Even night goblin spearmen will kill one in three rounds of combat without much effort.  The assasin with his ASF and high I will mean little when he can't defend his meager profile and ward save by killing foes first.
5. Shades losing their skirmishing abiltiy (well the changes to skirmish not their role per se).  They were a strong vehicle for assasins and worked very well.  Now they are an expensive unit which makes for a tough sell when compared to two rank crossbowmen.

Maybe it is the fact that I am used to playing against the kind of army that will now see use with the DE.  SPear blocks and 40+ crossbows on the board.  It can be nasty, but the changes will force the DE to return to the rest of the pack.  Their book was broken in comparision to the majority of the other armies in the game.  VC will probably suffer the most this time (since they will no longer be able to spam their raising spell) but DE won't be that far behind with the restrictions to spell choice.  Remember, no wizard can have a spell another wizard has other than the first level spell.

Beastmen on the other hand will get to take full advantage of the immunity to panic when causing fear, two rank minotaur units for crazy levels of attacks, and hordes of units which will have hatred almost every round of combat supported by heaps of chariots.  Not saying they will be superior to DE, but they will most certainly be their equal.  If I take 2 30 gor units, 2 30 ungor units, and a pile of chariots, good luck shooting enough models to make it difficult for them to mob the army.  Add the piles of ambushers and you have a very nice little list at 3000 points.

Phil
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2540 on: June 11, 2010, 01:07:33 AM »
Philly,

I haven't seen skirmish rumors but this was my list:

Lord on Dragon 575pts all told
Couldron of Blood - BSB (no character upgrades)
Lv1 with 2xDS

15 spearmen - FC
2x10 bowmen
2x5 shades (1 ninja assassin in each)
14 black guard -fc, ASF, roh (1 razor assassin)
2xHydras

with the bump to 3000 I can get 4 bolt throwers and buff the spearmen to 30 (or add CoK, more characters etc). the majority of the list in my eyes will still be very strong.
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Offline Warlord

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2541 on: June 11, 2010, 01:40:38 AM »
1.  The death of dark rider swarms.  Dark riders will now run in groups of 10+ rather than 5.  This will make them far juicier to kill and much tougher to sacrifice.
Hardly. The Repeater crossbow on them, and ability to kill missile units and war machines (and it sounds like there will be a lot more of those this next edition) keeps them useful. Not as useful, but still a GREAT core unit.

2.  The castration of the hydra.  No terror bubble, no immunity to difficult terrain, once per game breath weapon, and an I2 which lets people murder those handlers before the thing gets to attack.  Also no removing ranks on flank charges.  The hydra was a huge factor in the success of the army in many cases.  It is now only a so-so pick over the RBT's.

Don't disagree here. But it is still one of the best big nasty compared to other armies big nasties.

I2 will hurt it though, but thats fair enough considering it was undercosted.

3.  The uselessness of harpies.  Can be march blocked, are expensive, don't have the attacks to really do much.

Fliers can be march blocked? I had no idea. That screws up a LOT of things then, across multiple armies. Makes no sense to me either, but ok.

4. Assassins becoming easy points.  With 2 wounds and a T2, they are not a problem anymore.  Since units fill in, they can freely chop away at a front rank, but they won't last more than 2 rounds against almost anything.  Even night goblin spearmen will kill one in three rounds of combat without much effort.  The assasin with his ASF and high I will mean little when he can't defend his meager profile and ward save by killing foes first.

Assassins have T2? I did not notice this. Though their high I should surely mean they will kill anything in base to base, though I guess I have no idea what the rules are for attacking characters in the new edition. And generally I think this means that Assassins are therefore good at killing characters, and not at killing units, which is how they are supposed to be used.

5. Shades losing their skirmishing abiltiy (well the changes to skirmish not their role per se).  They were a strong vehicle for assasins and worked very well.  Now they are an expensive unit which makes for a tough sell when compared to two rank crossbowmen.

Indeed. But I never saw that many of these anyway. Most Dark Elf armies I played took a minimum unit of shades, because they were effective, but not more so than other components of the list. I don't see this changing.

Beastmen on the other hand will get to take full advantage of the immunity to panic when causing fear, two rank minotaur units for crazy levels of attacks, and hordes of units which will have hatred almost every round of combat supported by heaps of chariots.  Not saying they will be superior to DE, but they will most certainly be their equal.  If I take 2 30 gor units, 2 30 ungor units, and a pile of chariots, good luck shooting enough models to make it difficult for them to mob the army.  Add the piles of ambushers and you have a very nice little list at 3000 points.

They really will not be their equal. The DE have an ability to take hordes of units which are better equipped and have better stats than Ungor (and arguably Gor), and also have hatred and could be supported by heaps of chariots. Plus they have all their shooting, and shooting, and then shooting. A requirement for 25% Core means I generally think this will be 2 units of dark riders, 1 big unit of spearmen, and the rest in repeater crossbowmen. If there is any army that can shoot the shit out of the enemy, that would be Dark Elves. And they will.

Like you said though, Minotaurs are getting a huge boost, and that will still be what the Beastmen army relies on for effectiveness.

...

Overall, the things you mention do change how Dark Elves work, and does bring them back towards how they are supposed to work, however that still doesn't mean they aren't effective, and aren't going to be one of, if not the most effective army in 8th edition.

They have gained a HUGE boost in shooting potential, for an already VERY shooty army. 2 ranks is huge for them.

They have gained even more incentive to take their undercosted core choice of spearmen. Were these guys appropriately costed, I would say this would be balancing.

Their chariots have become more effective, no longer hampered by Special slots, nor by auto destroy S7.

Witch Elves and Executioners have received an attack boost in comparison to the currently favoured Black Guard.

Cold One Knights also benefit from the Cause Fear - Ignore Panic rule, however the requirement for an extra rank hurts them just as much as every other army with elite heavy cavalry.

Ultimately, I see them with a LOT more spearmen, more repeater crossbowmen, and more chariots, as well as most of their other choices scattered through.
They benefit more than any other army by having their undercosted core choice, which for some reason was not favoured, coming to the fore.
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Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2542 on: June 11, 2010, 03:03:09 AM »
Assassins are T3.

and unless overkill/challenges are changing you'd just challenge with the guy in the hopes your opponent is silly enough to accept.
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Offline phillyt

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2543 on: June 11, 2010, 11:28:03 AM »
Units of 5 darkriders will be nearly useless.  Their role was light shooting and flank threats.  They can still shoot, but they serve no real purpose as a unit threat.  That will be enough to see them reduced in use to groups of 10.  As it stands, many armies ran at least 3 to 4 units of dark riders.  That isn't going to be a good use of points now.  Of course they are still useful, but not in the same fashion.

And at no point did I claim the army would be ineffective.  I am simply saying people who think the army will get a boost under 8th haven't really thought it all through.  There are far more powerful units than the DE spearman for similar points.

And yes, Assassins are T3, I made a typo!

Bies:  That DE list you posted is a perfect illustration of my point.  Your magic phase will be horrid, the dragon is no longer a unit muncher, and you have a sinlge unit with which to take and hold an objective.  You are going to need at least three full blocks of spearmen, more magic, and a revaluation of how many hydra nad dragons you run.  The problem with them is that they no longer give you a terror bubble, they cannot remove ranks, and they are all I2 giving whoever you fight a great chance of getting cheap wounds on them.  Add the huge number of points you have in assassins, who smart players will kill with RNF not challenging characters, and you have a flawed 7th edition list trying to do 8th.  You will need to scrap the whole thing and essentially start over.  Only those 10 man xbow units will survive the change unscathed.

But now picture this, that army fighting an O&G horde.  4 blocks of 36 NG, 2 units of 10 wolf riders, 1 unit of 10 boar boyz, 6 bolt throwers, 2 catapults, 3 giants, 4 goblin heroes, 3 goblin shaman, 1 black orc warboss, 3 units of 20 night golbin bowmen, 12 fanatics.  You would struggle alot to actually get that win.  Any strength attack can now wound any toughness on a 6, there is no N on the chart anymore.  The army I just listed would weather long range shooting very well, would have 80 shortbow shots at closer range, will rake units with 6 BT shots (or dragons if they are in the open) and will bomb blocks with catapults as the hordes move forward to take and hold objectives.  The giants will all go before the hydra and dragon, even when charged.  With their yell and bawl, headbutt, or thump with club, they are very likely to win every round.  The yell and bawl and headbutt remove the abiulity for the large model to attack back.  Thump with club will put 2d6 wounds on the model on anything but a 1 or 2.  Those are good odds.

Beastmen can do similar things.  The Cygor has suddenly become far better than we ever thought.  No need to guess means he can just move and drop those boulders.  Chaos hounds are finally worth using too!  Now you can take 20 of them in a unit, and flank charge.  There are few units with M7 cheap enough to do that with.  Centigor in two ranks will have far more attacks than normal knights, since they have 2 attacks on their profile, meaning 24 S5 attacks with a great chance of rerolls from a 12 centigor group.  They are slow with I3, but they can still do serious damage on the flanks with M8.  A unit of 30 gor with AHW is 275 points and capable of dealing good damage with rerolls.  But their greatest threat comes when combined with hordes of chariots, espescially razorgors.  Without the need to worry about slotting, you will see many more razorgor chariots, which are immune to panic.

 This all ignores ambushing, which will become far more prevelant.  With objectives, those of us who have played 40k enough know that the ability to models deploy into an opponents deployment zone is huge.  With another 750 points, I will use almost all of that for ambushers. 2 deployed blocks of 30 gor, plus 4 blocks 10 gor, combined with 4 units of 15 ungor spearmen, means 5 ambushers within a small number of points.  Then there will be 2 units of minotaur, 2 giants, 6 chariots, 1 razorgor chariots, 1 beastlord, 1 gorbull BSB, and 3 shaman.  I am not too worried about a large amount of shooting.  I will soak it and hammer those softer things with chariots or the enemy will need to ignore all those blocks while ambushers arrive along their line's flanks or rear.

Beastmen will do amazing if you prepare to play the many scenarios not named Pitched Battle.  Even in a pitched battle, we are about to see a big boost.

Phil
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Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2544 on: June 13, 2010, 08:20:03 AM »
Okay, tournament update. Played the first three games today, last two games tomorrow. My record right now is 2-1. I won my first game against the reigning  champion of our LGS. He's a super tough High Elf player. for some reason, he decided to field a lord on a star dragon for this tournament, and then inexplicably forgot how to use it effectively. I think he was tired.

Anyway, I crushed two units of spear elves with minotaurs (though my minos with AHW and the BSB flubbed horribly on their attacks and actually LOST combat on the turn they charged) and my jabber flew around mostly making empty threatening gestures. He did account for a lion chariot though, which took three wounds from his aura of madness over two turns (the other wound was by a spawn). In the end he killed my minos (though not my characters), all of my harpies, spawns, all my chariots, and got my jabber down to one wound. Both of my shamans effectively killed temselves with miscasts. He had only half a unit of shadow warriors and his dragon (plus 2 wounds on his general on top) A victory for me!  :happy:

As a reward for my tactical prowess I was then slotted to fight Khorne daemons. The guy's list was Bloodthirster, 3 heralds, one with the -3 to cast banner, two units of hounds, and 3 units of bloodletters. I put two wounds on the thirster, and then he wrecked face on my entire army. In the end I killed one letter unit, one herald, half of another herald, dropped another unit of letters down to 4 models, and killed both hound units. He was very upset at my blackened plate, because all his heralds had the +1S flaming gift, but the thirster took him out with his 2d6+2 attacks. Best part of the game was when my jabber took a charge from a diminished unit of letters with herald, bled all over the herald, killing it, then was missed by the now non-hating bloodletters, and did enough wounds back to actually win combat! Then he died in the next turn. But still. In the end I had both shamans, all my raiders, and my harpies left. Loss for me!  :dry: Daemons are broke. The guy playing them told me so.  :engel:

My next opponent was another high elf player. He had a more traditional high elf list with three repeater bolt throwers, 2 units of archers, a block of white lions, block of swordmasters, unit of 6 dragon princes, 2 lion chariots, a lvl 2 mage, a bsb in tiranoc chariot, and a lord. I had my herdstone next to a wood that I hid my shamans in, and tried to get harpies up the flank to kill his bolt throwers. It did not work. I killed one of the bolt throwers with magic, and then the other two killed ALL of my harpies, two units of raiders, both my shamans, a spawn, and dropped my jabber to below half on turn 6. I hates them precious. I misjudged a charge distance and allowed dragon princes to hit my gw minos (I put both my characters into the ahw unit and walked it toward his elite blocks), they killed two minos and my return attacks only killed two princes (stupid ones!  :eusa_wall: ) I wrecked everything else he had though. Minos got a flank on his swordmasters, while a chariot hit them in the front and jabber hit them in the rear. His mage was in that unit. They died good. Got his BSB with my minos when he charged my chariot and I fled with it (of course I was not going to stay!) the tuskgors chariot failed to rally and fled off the table, but who cares? My minos were pretty much out of it at that point, being off in a corner by their lonesome, but they did their job well. Got a couple staggered chariot charges into his white lions (lines got crowded), and eventually lost both those chariots, but it set me up for a flank charge by jabber into the white lions with the lord. Turns out, he had his lord set up with the ethereal thing that makes him not able to attack. Nice against Bloodthirster, but I know he was regretting it when he only got a single white lion attack on my jabber because his lord could only sit there (I knew about the lord before I charged, because of the previous chariot attacks). Jabber won and ran down lord and unit, then was lucky enough to see the lion chariot that was now in his rear arc fail his fear test and not be able to charge. Then the jabber flew behind the unwounded chariot, and he rolled an 11! for his madness test, and the jabber licked the last wound off the chariot with his slythey tongue. Fun times! In the end I had both of my mino characters practically unscathed, my entire ahw unit intact, jabber at half points, and some raiders left. he had a single chariot, dragon princes, and 2 bolt throwers left. Another victory for me!  :eusa_clap:  :::cheers:::

All in all I am enjoying this list a lot. I have absolutely no answer whatsoever for big character monsters, but I have faced the only two armies that have them. Tomorrow, two more games. Till then, stay thirsty my friends.
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2545 on: June 14, 2010, 05:36:04 AM »
And now, the moment approximately nobody has been waiting for!  :happy:

Played my last two games today and finished up at the local tournament.

At the end of day one I was in 4th place, ready to make my move and try to catch the Daemon player I had lost to earlier. I had to play a filthy skaven my first game of the day.

Skaven player had three units of slaves, three units of clanrats, two ratling guns, a plague mortar, big block of plague monks with the furnace, two units of censor bearers, an abomination, and a doomwheel. He had a warplock engineer two plague priests, and a BSB with Storm Banner.

I fed his abomination and doomwheel some ungor raiders and harpies, and otherwise avoided and ignored them the entire game. They were on opposite flanks, and I did not want to commit my minos and characters to deal with them. Both of my mino units went straight up the middle, and I smashed the unit of monks completely, but failed to kill the furnace (out of 9 hits by doombull in second round of combat only one die rolled to wound was higher than a 2), failed both of my break checks and fled through enemies. Lame.

In the end all of his weapon teams, both units of censor bearers, all three slave units, his BSB, one of the Plague priests and half the other, the unit of plague monks, and a unit of clan rats were dead. I lost a chariot, a spawn, a couple units of raiders, a unit of harpies, and (the thing that hurt most) my unit of GW minos and my doombull. A frustrating draw.


Final game was against a very seasoned Wood Elf player. He had Treeman Ancient, 3 units of dryads, two units of 3 treekin, 2 units of wild riders, 3 units of archers, two level 2's and a BSB. I don't know if it was the heat (A/C in the store was not working) or the fact I had gotten 6 hours of sleep in two days, but I went complete retard mode. I played his game, lost everything except my jabber, two chariots, a unit of raiders, and my two mino characters. All I killed was a unit of archers, a mage, a unit of wild riders, a unit of dryads, and half his BSB. Not a massacre, but as close as one can get without it. I was disappointed to say the least, but I blame only myself. I still had a chance to do well in the tournament, and I blew it.

In the end my record was 2-2-1. Not terrible, but I was angry at myself for stupid mistakes. Ah well. Live and learn, and then get Luvs.
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.

Offline Nicholas Bies

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2546 on: June 14, 2010, 06:41:35 AM »
Theres always next year! And you would have done it if it wasn't for those meddling hippies!
The greatest form of control which can go on forever until it is exposed is a tyranny you can't see, touch and taste (unlike totalitarian Govts). When you sit in a prison cell but can't see the bars, because people don't rebel against not being free when they think they're are.

Offline Aldaris

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2547 on: June 14, 2010, 07:29:46 AM »
As long as you had a good time... 2-2-1 is not a bad record!
 :::cheers:::

Offline Siberius

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2548 on: June 14, 2010, 07:59:06 AM »
Seems like you faced some tough armies there. Even wood elves are a bit trickier now that we have lost most of our skirmish and wood walking ability.

I'd say it was a pretty good result.
Quote from: PhillyT
Magic does not have nearly the same problems with power levels as magic. 

Offline Cannonofdoom

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Re: The Minotaurs: Where the Beasts gather...
« Reply #2549 on: June 14, 2010, 08:02:48 AM »
I faced, without question, every single one of the hardest armies and best players at the tournament, so I will hold my head high at only two losses, but like every player I always dwell on what I COULD have done.  :biggriin: Silly what-if's.
CannonofDoom spews his shit at me all the time and I haven't banned him.