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Author Topic: Round 5 Tactics.  (Read 7681 times)

Offline Rorrak

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Round 5 Tactics.
« on: August 22, 2005, 08:49:05 AM »
What do we know.

Its a 5 day round ending on Thursday.

We have a decent lead at Kaltenbach of 8200 but Kaltenbach still carries the 25% bonus flag for both T-Land and us.

We are behind at the Uneasy by 4450, Stirland now have access to Bechafen.

We have some unreported games in hand to apply this round.

---------

What I suspect might happen.

T-Land will be putting a lot of points in at Bechafen.
Stirland will focus on The Uneasy making a concerted effort from us needed if we want to take it.

It will take some attacks from T-Land into UDO's to make Stirland split their reports, and if that doesnt happen then we probably wont keep the uneasy.

-----

I have 2 games from yesterday. Draw and Solid and 1 game to play on Tuesday. I'll be short two games from my allotment

Offline Vann Harl

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2005, 08:58:03 AM »
I have a Massacre vs Empire and a Major Victor vs Lizards to use.


Gentlemen and Generals. We have been on the back foot for some time now. Defending! defending! Is there no possibility of attack? where can we quickly gain an advantage somewhere?

We have been RE-acting to threats from either side. Can we not now change the tables and make PRO-active strike?

1) Maybe an "orderly retreat" at the Uneasy, ready to abandon it to its fate.
2) Hit Bechafen hard to push up the riot points.
3) Early defence at Kaltenbach extend our lead to deter T-land from attacking there.
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Offline Rorrak

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2005, 12:03:15 PM »
You forget, that the Uneasy is ours because of an Attack.

Early indications are that T-Land are fortifying Ryas Sisters and have given Stirland a small mountain to climb there. There is small threat of attack at Kaltenbach.

Whatever we do this round we have to do decisively. I just feel somewhat listless about it. If we attack and succeed it just means modifiers for the opposition so they can take it back.

A lot of our effort has already been posted at the Watchman. Perhaps we should just slam dunk it. If we keep it then Stirland are looking at 2 turns again to get to Bechafen that way and may just back off.

Offline Vann Harl

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2005, 01:52:08 PM »
hmm,  :? attacking a contested position is better then not attacking at all. But like you said lets do it decisively.

Lets hear from the rest of Generals. We've driven the Stirlanders back once before! Lets make them pay dearly for attempting to take the Uneasy!
Grand Writing Competition winning entry;
"I was there! With the Men of Erlach!"

"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious"
- Oscar Wilde

Offline Midaski

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2005, 04:39:51 PM »
Quote from: Vann Harl

2) Hit Bechafen hard to push up the riot points.


I am not sure if that is right?

My impression of the rules there was that 'skirmishes' scores of say 200pts added 100pts to the riots scores.

I am not sure that reporting a battle there adds to the riot scores?

I am holding my thoughts at the moment - I've asked Rorrak for some figures in the 'standings' thread.

We indeed have options as Van Harl says - I am not sure which is the best way forward.

We can attack: The Watchman, Brustenbruck and Bechafen.

We can bolster/defend: Kaltenback & Fort Grigory

Do not forget the last one, if we lose the Watchman, Fort Grigory must be a possible Stirland Target.

What worries me at the moment is that I see very little to convince me Stirland or Talabecland will attack each other, and we do need that to happen - badly.
 :wink:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline Nightshadow

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2005, 04:47:09 PM »
I was also under the impression that Skirmishes increase the riot factor, and normal battles don't.

It's because that d*mn anti middenland modifier campaign, we already had a lot less active members, and now are at risk we cant compete against our opponents.

Anyway, I think that if we give way at The Uneasy Watchman, we unleash a Stirland tidal wave against Fort Grigory. So I say we keep stubbornly attacking TUW.
Graf Wilhelm Anderssen, Leading the Marburg Company (Stirland), joining Helstrom's 4th.
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Offline jmanwarhammer

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 01:28:05 AM »
Just a few thoughts.

I doubt that Talabecland has any true intentions of taking Kaltenbach, they have no advantage to gain there; except maybe to split our focus. But as has been demonstrated in the past they can be rather foolish so not much is certain.

We should definitly make very effort to keep the Uneasy, for several reasons.
- It may disuade them from attacking there again.
- If they do attack there again then let them, the campaign is almost over (the original runtime was 4-6 rounds but this may have changed due to the shortened rounds), the more battle reports they put at the Watchmen the less they have at Bechafen.
- While they are attemting to retake TUW Talabecland may wise up and see the oppurtunity to attack the Stirlanders.
-  I'm sure there are other reasons, I know I had more but forgot them while typing, but these seem the most prominent.

Keep in mind Midaski I have about 1000 points to put where we need em'.
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Offline Guvnor

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 07:21:45 AM »
Well if the watchman falls then the Stirlanders can have even more likelihood of taking Bechafen.
I would recommend imo that split the results like this would work:
 
I'm going to split the results into fifths so they divide better
 
1. 3/5 of results at the uneasy
2. 1/5 at Kaltenbach
3. 1/5 at Bechafen
 
 :wink:
I have one sentence in response to the engineer and mechanical: Empire is post-feudal age, not post-nuclear age!

Offline Rorrak

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 07:45:14 AM »
I added some stats to the current standings program.
 
We are reporting almost as many games as Stirland but we don't have the perfect quality games that they do.
 
Tonights game will be a compliant list to try get the 25% bonus if I get a game against empire.

Offline Midaski

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 10:33:40 AM »
I've had the "start of round" figures from Rorrak, and they make interesting reading.

At the start of Round 5, and with the initial 15,000 points per location removed;

Stirland - 125350
Talabecland - 77900
Middenland/Kislev - 71350

The modifiers are still in there, and I think we had some fairly hefty ones in Round 1.

I'm not very good at tables, but here are the round by round points per faction:

Round .............Stirland.....................Talabec...............Mid/Kis

2: ...................19650 ...................... 7450 .................. 8350
3: .................. 31250 ..................... 19950 ................ 17900
4: .................. 38350 ..................... 19850 ................ 28250

There are some oddities, in that round 2 seemed very low scoring, and scores have grown round by round.

Stirland overall seen to have posted roughly 61% more points than us, and 75% more than Talabecland.
I am also a bit bemused as to how we generated 28,250 points suddenly last round - I did a bit of emailing, and we had a few turn up, but can we maintain that?

Anyway the point of all this is the future.

Realistically Stirland have it all sewn up if they continue to post those sort of figures.
If we have to fight off Talabecland, neither of us can defeat Stirland - the proof of this is in the first 3 rounds where nothing happened at Kaltenbach and Stirland were in deep doodah. :wink:

What to do now then? :?:

The round finishes on Thursday.

I think we need to win the Watchman, BUT we should make a late surge.

I think they are about 10000 points ahead of us there - can we 'collect' that much and a bit more for a decisive move on Thursday - European time tho' - the General is doing the tally.

We need to convince/bluff Stirland we have given in at the Watchman -
and get them posting elsewhere.
We could throw a couple of minor scores at Fort Grigory, to give the impression we are fortifying it for the next round after we have lost the Watchman :wink:

There seems to be some 'new' activity at Udo's Fall - it is getting close again, and Stirland will need to counter it

The other place they are looking at is Bechafen -
We are down there now, and so it would look logical for us to attack there.
Stirland and Talabecland are starting to concentrate some efforts there too.

To Summarise:

1. We need some big scores held back for a late surge at the Watchman.

2. We post odd battles to Bechafen and Fort Grigory.

3. We do nothing at Kaltembach, unless Talabecland make a surge.
[If they do we have our back up points meant for the Watchman if we are really in trouble.]


It's 'propaganda' with our battle report posting.........
Plan open to criticism :wink:

In the meantime: - 'scores in the bank'

I have 1400 points and a game tonight - expected fairly even
Jman said above he has 1000pts approx -
Van Harl has something
Rorrak too?

Maybe let's keep the 1000+ results, and post up some draws and minors.
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline Rorrak

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 11:43:11 AM »
I have a game coming tonight and with luck the tentative game I arranged is a fully modified one. I've decided to go with the limited shadow mage, swap some knightly orders to White wolf (sadly not painted due to fur conversions) and so on to get compliant. This has every chance of a maximum score.

Additionally my wife is showing interest in playing again. She used to play the wood elves and has agreed to small wednesday games to see if she will enjoy it again. She is really enjoying Mordheim again. Don't expect a massacre here as thats not the ideal way to re-introduce her. But a Scenario and compliant List, Solid Victory is not out of the question. She is aware of the campaign and game effect and is very supportive and accomodating of my hobby. (Something that I really appreciate)


So a likely 2100 - 2700 points from me.

Offline Rorrak

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 11:47:33 AM »
As to the plan, Its a really good one.

They are 10k ahead, if we post elsewhere it will look like we are conceding TUW and then a late rush may meet with no games in hand to respond.

We just need to post our lowest scores elsewhere and Fort G does make it look like we are preparing for the worst. Along side your summary in the shared area.

Offline Guvnor

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 12:38:24 PM »
Does that mean when i play on thurs it won't count this round?
Because i should get a couple of scenarios in against an undead force, this should be draw at least.
I have one sentence in response to the engineer and mechanical: Empire is post-feudal age, not post-nuclear age!

Offline Vann Harl

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 12:44:41 PM »
So Midaski Its up to you and I to post some propaganda in tho open forum then hey?
How about a little  stiring? possibly hint at an alliance between us and T-land?
In fact are alliances totally out of the option? After all we and T-land are Ulricans, even if they are misguided ones.
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"Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious"
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Offline General Helstrom

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2005, 01:11:31 PM »
Alliances are out of the options. You guys are supposed to hate each other. Get in character :-D
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Offline Erken

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2005, 02:06:38 PM »
I just want to say that I think what Midasky has suggested is the best option right now, lets save up and go for the Uneasy on thursday .

Offline Midaski

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2005, 02:11:30 PM »
Quote from: Vann Harl
So Midaski Its up to you and I to post some propaganda in tho open forum then hey?
How about a little  stiring? possibly hint at an alliance between us and T-land?
In fact are alliances totally out of the option? After all we and T-land are Ulricans, even if they are misguided ones.


I'm not sure you should be taunting the Talabeclanders Van Harl, we want to keep things quiet at Kaltenbach.......

.........and announcing a big movement to The Watchman may not be very clever :wink:

If you'd said "on to Bechafen" it may have helped more............
 :wink:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline RGB

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2005, 03:05:21 PM »
Okay guys, please let's not do anything too obvious. I think GH and the rest are aware of the situation and we won't be left out cold and dead so.

It really doesn't look that good if we keep harassing the Stirs and asking the Talabecsmen to help. Northern pride, northern pride.

Cheers.
[in the good of life]

Offline Midaski

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2005, 03:22:49 PM »
Quote from: RGB
Okay guys, please let's not do anything too obvious.


Obvious was exactly what I was trying to avoid. :wink:


Quote from: RGB

It really doesn't look that good if we keep harassing the Stirs and asking the Talabecsmen to help. Northern pride, northern pride.
Cheers.


1. Nobody has asked the Talabeclanders for Help. If there has been some suggestion by reasoning, or use of figures, that it is not in their interest to attack us, then that is just explaining the facts.

2. Harrassing the Stirs? Not sure what you mean?
If you are talking about 'banter' then I suggest you look at the pre-start threads in the Campaign forum - I think you will find certain STirland members VERY prominent, and ours were remarkably understated.

If you are talking about references to their uncanny knack of achieving massacres then I have nothing much to say, as I do not think I wish to have a proper argument about it, as I might get very expansive, which is not in keeping with my position :wink:

I have actually kept my real feelings about it quiet, even in our forum, as I am not too impressed with some of the 'sympathetic' platitudes being extended.
 :roll:


Anyway back to Tactics

Unfortunately elieress posted 3 battles at TUW this morning as I posted my ideas.

The current gap I make 7000 - the Stirlanders may now panic and post some results there which will make taking it back much harder.

Let's not post anything more at The Watchman for the time being.
If you have a big points score let us know in this thread, and hold on to it.

If you have a draw or a minor with the odd bonus - then it might be worth putting it up at Fort Grigory or Bechafen.
 :)

Are we sticking to a plan or not - if you disagree then shout........
 :wink:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline RGB

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2005, 03:32:44 PM »
Heh, the massacres.

Yeah. Hard to do anything about it.


Well, I know that you're trying to talk some sense into Talabecsmen but it still looks like asking for help. In any case, they've heard it now, so hey, they may do something wise for a change and stop wasting their time at Kaltenbach.

Anyway...

Whatevs. I got my first massacre ever last night. I was quite amazed. I posted at the Watchman, that's where we are attacking, no?

EDIT: Egads, I screwed up. Apologies. I do have another game on Thursday though.
[in the good of life]

Offline Midaski

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2005, 03:38:32 PM »
@rgb - hey okay that's fine.

Attacking Yes and no :wink:  

You haven't read the previous page threads from this morning, and I've just edited my last one too.
 :wink:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline RGB

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2005, 03:39:11 PM »
It's okay. Only you and I saw it, so I removed it.

I'll post it Thursday then.

----------------------------------

Which faction did you fight for?
Middenland/Kislev
Which race did you fight against?
Empire
At which location did you fight?
The Uneasy Watchman
What was the outcome of the battle?
Massacre
Did you use one of the location's Scenarios?
No
Did you use the Campaign Army List appropriate for your faction?
No (I used a DoW list, which is my own Ostland army kitted out differently)

It is insane how things can trn out in your favour sometimes.
It was a smallish game and because he left his handgunners and his mortars at home, I managed to march three blocks of pike right at him unmolested except for the odd cannon shot (he spent most of the other time trying to cannonsnipe my paymaster).
His knights tried to flank but got charged by my heavy cavalry and routed. The rest was very predictable as I left no gaps between my blocks to maneuvre the detachments into and the pikemen killed his spearmen.

First massacre for me.

------------------------------------------
[in the good of life]

Offline Midaski

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2005, 09:48:57 PM »
Make sure you read back through the threads - some of the plans suggested are on the previous page.............

I think we've agreed to post some minor stuff/scores to Bechafen and Fort Grigory, and hold back some juicy scores for an assault on the Watchman on Thursday.

At the moment we do NOT want any more posts to the Watchman :!:

General H is doing the tally up, and so we will be on European time. Last time he did it about 5.30pm GMT, [6.30 British Summer Time], probably 7.30 in Holland.
However there is no guarantee he will wait until the evening?

I have been watching the posting and the other factions are holding on to stuff as well.
There has been nothing from Helblaster or Carlo Chaimo, and I think Fr1day may have another one, for Talabecland, -
and Stirland seem to be a bit low on posts so far.
This is a 5 Day round so 5 battles per person maximum.

Hopefully if we can give Stirland the impression we have given up at the Watchman, and it looks very close at Udo's, and Helblaster weighs in there for Talabecland, we may see the gap stay the same at the Watchman.

Right I know RGB has 800pts.
Elieress has another report. ?
I have a 1400,
Who else ???
 :?:  :?:

Edit:   Plus I am not going to post any more 'propaganda' at the moment in the Campaign forum - I just posted a little thread earlier to try and make the Talabecs think about Stirland's power, and to try to make them think about whether it is worth them attacking Kaltenbach.
That was the subtle message - which now seems to have been lost in the potential validity of scores and results - I do not want to go any further down this route, and I hope the rest of you will not inflame things.
 :wink:
Quote from: Gneisenau
Quote
Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline Middenland_is_Okay

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2005, 12:37:55 AM »
I know for sure that Helblaster has at least 3600 points(if at Kaltenbach) from me. I wasn't trying to lose, I just got my @$$ chewed off by his cav!! And I think that Hellion has sworn never to play Helblaster again, so I suspect another two massacres.
I make no sense, and I don't care!!

Offline jmanwarhammer

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Round 5 Tactics.
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2005, 12:44:27 AM »
Quote
I hope the rest of you will not inflame things.


Oops...
Larry: WOW! Three sixes in a row!
[Elsewhere]
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