Topic: Army Book: Engineer

[Dutch]

I feel even with a point reduction the Engineer is lackluster. Hes basically going to be an expensive +1 BS or an expensive sniper of sorts. I propose just adding some interesting bits to him and granting a unit upgrade of standard Engineer.

Engineer

M 4 WS 3 BS 4 S 3 T 3 W 1 I 3 A 1 Ld 7

Master of Ballistics. (As per standard Master Engineer rules.) ; Extra Crewman.

25 pt upgrade to any war machine.

Master Engineer

M 4 WS 4 BS 5 S 3 T 3 W 2 I 3 A 1 Ld 8

Master of Ballistics. Feat of Engineering.

Feat of Engineering: Once per turn during the movement phase the Master Engineer may choose one of the following effects.
   Extra Powder: Any ranged weapon he possesses or war machine he is able to effect with Master of Ballistics gains +1 to all wound rolls this turn. Any war machine effected in this way is considered a use of    Master of Ballistics and the Master Engineer cannot shoot with another ranged weapon this turn.
   Sighting: Increase the range of any ranged weapon he possesses or war machine he is able to effect with Master of Ballistics by +4 inches. Any war machine effected in this way is considered a use of Master of    Ballistics and the Master Engineer cannot shoot with another ranged weapon this turn.
   Field Repairs: May attempt to repair any warmachine he is able to effect with Master of Ballistics or a Steam Tank within 3 inches with a successful roll of 4+. The war machine or Steam Tank regains 1 Wound    not exceeding their starting wounds profile. The use of this ability prevents the Master Engineer from shooting or aiding a war machine further with Master of Ballistics this turn.

(Same equipment options for the Master Engineer as are listed in the book. I think maybe an experimental powder weapon in addition but overall its good with these abilities added.)

I know this topic hasn't been discussed for some time but I like this thread and some of the other ones.

[Johedl]

I think with the introduction of 8th edition and the Empire FAQ, the only changes he needs are:

Cost reduction. 50pts flat should do it IMO.

Equipment cost reduction. All equipment should be cheaper for him

BS increase - to BS5.
This should coincide with Helblaster and Helstorm warmachine crew having BS4 (as these guys are more skilled with the more complicated machine than those with cannon / mortar).

Engineering student unit.
Normally Rare, 1 unit of these as Core (to be discussed later on).

I like the idea of a cost reduction. I would allso like to see a bit more choise when it comes to equipment, a pistol together with his reapiting pistol for example. The BS increase for the Rare warmachines is nice, making the crew specialy deployed Outriders would be nice with BS4 and light armour for 10-15 pts more per warmachine.

[red bull]

The ballistic skill of the cannon and mortar crew really doesn't matter, as there aren't any to hit rolls.

[Dutch]

The ballistic skill of the cannon and mortar crew really doesn't matter, as there aren't any to hit rolls.

Actually it does matter. The cannon now must hit when using grapeshot, much like using the hellblaster, so an increased ballistic skill helps there. As well as a mortar using indirect fire even on a direct hit deviates the number indicated on the artillery die but that is reduced by the ballistic skill of the crew. Not significant numbers or uses but they can have an impact.

[red bull]

I'd forgotten that. Ooops.

[sitaavanu]

Long time ogre player looking to branch out.

When I am looking at your current army list and considering what I would be willing to take and pay for my views are slightly slanted due to my other faction.  That said, my thoughts are as follows:

He needs to provide something unique.  Warrior priest add dispel dice and can do melee combat.  Mages cast spells.  Hero's and lords can fill several different rolls based upon load out.  No one is going to want to take a model that only does these jobs .... kinda sorta but not really.  His nitch should be with the cannons and steam tank.  I really like the steam tank mount idea as it has been discussed as a mount option.  Having a ton of experience with restrictive list building I think it is a poor design to ONLY allow a steam tank if you have a master engineer.  What I really like though is the idea of him having his apprentices.  The master engineer allows for rerolling every turn (as it is currently allowed) on any artillery he is attached too.  His two apprentices, which should not count as hero points used up, (probably 15 or 20 pts a piece) can be assigned to a special or core artillery piece and allow rerolling every other round.

For that cost I could reasonably see people taking the engineer and his apprentices.  I think right now he doesn't do enough If i have 6 cannons i have to pay to give one of them a reroll (unless i've clumped everything together) and since I'm already burning heroes points I might as well burn points on giving him some gear so he can do something else.  at about 100 pts I've achieved in most games the ability to reroll one cannon? I might as well have just taken another cannon. 

Master Engineer should also give +1 to hit with black powder weapons that are used in a unit he is attached too (thus no need to enahnce his BS skill or the crews he is attached too and gives a reason to take the mechano horse or large units of gunners).

[Noble Korhedron]

Apologies for this threadomancy. I think the Engineer should be able to take something other than light armour. Say a min of heavy armour and/or a shield. Or give him the option for a pavaise-like device which grants +2 armour save....?

[Drunk Artillery Commander]

Ok so this is my first post ever. Ive only been playing empire for about 2 years (maybe 70 games total) so i was here for 7th and 8th edition. I've always found our armies were awesome for the flexibility and the lore, but a few things bugged me, one being the Master engineer's usefulness and another being the hand gunners usefulness (always rolling 5+ to hit except in close range). So i proposed a new special rule for the master engineer that is simple and makes both the engineer and hand gunners easier to swallow points wise. 

The rule proposed was that the engineer grants a 1+ to hit with all infantry/Calvary (i say cavalry because I'm partial to use a unit of outriders on the line then have them bugger off once the fun starts on the line) within 12 inches in line of sight while still conveying his rerolls to a machine within 3 inches.  I believe the point cost to be relatively offset by that and fluff wise you could always say that the hand-gunners would take a little more time in their firing if the guy who built their weapons were breathing down their necks.

I called it "Keeping an eye on my Investments"

In all honesty our guys are boss, S4 AP shots with 24 inch range, but we need something to make it worth it and this does it while keeping a good balance with the points and the buffs.     

[Delthos]

I like it, except I think 12" range is too good a range for it, that improves a whole lot of stuff for one 65point model. I'd say 3" is sufficient.

I've got problems with it though as it means he can move around and bolster units during the game. While that fits the fluff you've written, I think it would be better if he just gave the benefit to one designated unit.

I really don't think the Engineer needs it though. They weren't worth the points at all in 7th edition, now I think they may actually be a little bit underpriced, either that or our warmachines are underpriced, for the benefit the engineer provides. I've played in about 10 games in 8th edition. I've fielded at least three warmachines in every game, and one engineer per three warmachines. I had a warmachine blow up for the first time this past Saturday night, a mortar.  In 7th edition I'd have one blow up every other game at best, and I'd field 3 or 4 warmachines, but with no engineers. The Engineer has made that much of a difference in my games. They just don't need to be made stronger.

I think they need to make them stronger if they aren't manning a warmachine. That way there is a real reason to take the Engineer weapons. If they aren't manning a warmachine, they are a waste of points.

[Drunk Artillery Commander]

Sorry i didn't make it clearer (I made the post at one in the morning), the buff can only be given to one unit per shooting phase. Though i admit my friends were generous when they let me use 12 inches as my limit, perhaps 4-8 inches would be better. I hate bunching my units to close together so i tend to deploy my machines at least 3 inches back(unless there are dwellers below/miners).