home

Author Topic: The Summer Campaign  (Read 39499 times)

Offline Captain Tineal

  • Members
  • Posts: 2426
  • You will join me or die! Could you do any less?
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2007, 04:59:19 PM »
And the mighty Trogdar burninated the Bretonian peasants...
I don't know what a pisolires is but it sounds like a musical instrument you play with urine...

Offline Dendo Star

  • Members
  • Posts: 4120
  • And......loving it.
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2007, 06:17:16 PM »
And then Robocop showed up!
I'm in college!

Offline Morks Chariot

  • Members
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2007, 07:31:02 PM »
Quote
I mean, you're already bragging about how Orcs are going to invade the Empire. Okay, fine... Reading on... Ah, and then you say they've already captured Solland. Ah? Didn't know that, though, but could be me... He mentions a Gazzgurk I've never heard of (could be me again), and then mentions Grimgor's horde is still roaming about in the northern empire. Again, I thought we'd won the Shower of Chaos? What's that guy still doing there? I don't know about yours, but my NEB doesn't mention anything about an entire Orc invasion force still in the Empire. Okay, I realise this is just a rant, but it's just to state my opinion that while fluff influenced by players and campaign participants is fine, it should never be one-way-only, ie both player groups should have their input. Not just the one that can shout the loudest.
The Orcs captured Solland a razzed the city of Helstrum in the Canadian Battle of the Bosses Campaign (which ended just a few weeks ago), this is official GW fluff which we were told would have a large effect on the Nemesis Crown. Gazzgurk is the Great Orc Shaman we led this WAAAGH! through Solland, after razzing Helstrum he began moving his forces north to meet up with Grimgor.
Chaos lost the SoC, no one else really won, the Orcs killed (sorta) Archeon and the chaos invasion was pushed out of the Empire. The Empire never touched the Orc forces, so yes, Grimgor is still there. He moved the majority of his WAAAGH! back to Karak Ungor, but Grimgor always moves to where the bloodshed is. (This is in the Orc Army book)

You say that a campaign should have all player groups input, well it does, the Empire players are just choosing to complain about how this campaign is stupid instead of actually taking part. Whereas the O&G input is a bit more useful as we're writing serious fluff and preparing to take part in the battles. We proved with SoC that players can change the fluff (see my earlier post), so we're certainly going to try and carve this campaign the way we like it, and with the Empires general lack of resistance it shouldn't pose too much of a difficulty.

Quote
Uh, aren't you aware that the greenskins were entirely exterminated from the face of the warhammer world during this site's war of the wombats campaign? You need to find another army.
War of the Wombats is not official GW fluff, so it will have no effect on this campign (plus I believe Battle of the Bosses was not only official, but more recent, so we do, in fact, hold Solland.)
Da Warpath also hosts our own campaigns (know as Animosity), but it has no effect on fluff.

Quote
What's that saying? Vote with your wallet? If we, as the Empire, decided we'd have nothing to do with this Nemesis Crown business, then could that not have the same effect? If Nemesis Crown flops due to a lack of player interest, GW will figure out that they're doing something wrong, or so I would hope.
But that won't work either, as you can see from all the Orc hype there's no way this campaign will flop if the Empire decides to abandon it.

Quote
You know full well they won't do anything like that. GW won't dare change the status quo. Just like Storm of Chaos, we're going to see lots of hyperbole and ravings about how important everything is and how the world is doomed and so on, and just like Storm of Chaos, none of it will be worth a skaven's backside.

So, count me out. I respect the Empire more by not participating.
SoC proved to be worth a fair bit to O&G players, because we proved that GW can't just created fluff and ignore players input, we changed that campaign to our liking.


Also, as a note, a lot of O&G players aren't pleased with our army book either. Common goblins got completely nerfed, all kinds of Boar Boyz and Big 'Uns are now useless and the book contained almost no fluff (New Empire book has 23 pages of fluff, Orc book has 11). These are some of the most prominent concerns of Orc players, but rest assured, there are many others.

Offline Dendo Star

  • Members
  • Posts: 4120
  • And......loving it.
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2007, 07:36:49 PM »
You are aware we don't have a Solland anymore, aren't you?  :icon_neutral:
I'm in college!

Offline Ernst Brauer

  • Members
  • Posts: 165
  • Yorktown, Virginia - USA
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2007, 07:40:56 PM »
Well overall, I think my previous post still holds true for me.

I don't need to participate in a big campaign to enjoy the hobby. I could care less who gets the crown as it will make no difference to me nor anyone I'll be playing.  :happy:

And I still do not enjoy GW lumping all of the armies into a campaign. Lizardmen? Come on....They should stay in their jungles as they have no reason to ever leave honestly. Who has ever heard of a Lizardman army trouncing around the roads of the Empire or in the Great Forest? Straight silly.

Now I understand why it's done (to allow all players to feel included), but I don't like it enough to really bother with it all really.

The background for WH is pretty set in stone and GW will not shift it that drasticly because people will get upset. In SoC I highly doubt GW would have wiped the Northern Empire off the map.

I guess I'm just someone who really enjoys a bit more in depth story and more of a plot than "Armies beat each other up". I get plenty of that just playing normally with my friends.  :biggriin:

Offline Morks Chariot

  • Members
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2007, 07:47:45 PM »
You are aware we don't have a Solland anymore, aren't you?  :icon_neutral:
Yeah, I know, Gorbad trashed it, and it was renamed (I don't remember it's current name though :icon_razz:
But it's still a province of the Empire, a dead province, but a province nontheless.

Offline Dendo Star

  • Members
  • Posts: 4120
  • And......loving it.
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2007, 07:48:28 PM »
Okay.  I'm confused.
I'm in college!

Offline Captain Tineal

  • Members
  • Posts: 2426
  • You will join me or die! Could you do any less?
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2007, 07:59:44 PM »
All the Orc hype?  The only Orc hype I've heard is in this post!  :-D

I don't want to come off pessimistic, or apethetic, and I certainly don't want to seem like I'm bagging on anybody who's involved in this.

But the SOC was SOOOOO poorly written.  I don't care who contributed fluff, or who changed what, it doesn't change the fact that it ended something like "and there was this big fight, and Valten was there, and Archaon was there, and they had a fight, and just when Valten was about to die, Grimgor showed up and beat up Archaon, and then they all went home.  Oh yeah, and Valten died."

It was so anticlimatic that it I actually had to re-read it to make sure I had read it right in the first place.  The 2 big bad guys duke it out, then just walk away???  Valten survies a huge conflict only to die in his sick bed to a Skaven assassin?  Come on.

Don't you feel insulted that all the hard work people put into their fluff that they submitted ended like this?  I wasn't even involved in it and I do.

My free time comes at a premium, and I'd love to play in a world wide campaign (and I'd be the one running it where I play) but I am not going to waste my time for some half assed effort on the other end.  Thats just not going to happen.

I'll happily continue to play my games at my store, and happily run my campaigns until something better comes down the pipes.
I don't know what a pisolires is but it sounds like a musical instrument you play with urine...

Offline wissenlander

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 7468
  • The original Graf of Brennenburg
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2007, 08:13:05 PM »
At any rate, how can a campaign that has 'world wide' implications be influenced by only one region?  This Battle of the Bosses campaign was a Canadian deal and it influenced all of GW fluff?  I'm not knocking you Mr. Chariot, not by any means, your just the messenger.  I'm just trying to figure this out. 

There isn't much push, at all in the U.S. at this point at least, for any sort of major campaign.  That in and of itself makes it hard to take seriously by those who don't speak German (I don't remember what I learned from high school!) 

Will this be another major fluff change that is only predemonately decided by those who speak German?  It seems a bit weird that all of these changes are happening under our noses, and coming on so quickly. 

Yeah, I know, Gorbad trashed it, and it was renamed (I don't remember it's current name though :icon_razz:
But it's still a province of the Empire, a dead province, but a province nontheless.

That province would be Wissenland.  And it's a bit disconcerting that I now find out that I have orcs, lots of orcs, trapsing around in my home county and didn't know anything of it. :dry:
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

not together.

finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Dendo Star

  • Members
  • Posts: 4120
  • And......loving it.
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2007, 08:41:46 PM »
We don't.  I'd like to think someone would have told us...

I'm in college!

Offline Einholt

  • Members
  • Posts: 15
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2007, 08:49:28 PM »
I think they go about it all wrong, writing pre-determined fluff is a terrible idea for campaigns and allowing player fluff to influence the world is even worse. Not everyone gets a say and its highly subjective to organized groups.

I would love to see a campaign pre written with multiple outcomes that depend on key battles and those battles are determined through a number of wins and battle reports that come in from us playing. It would be amazing if the world changed according to players coming out participating and their performance directly affected their racial development and power. You can cure the idea of races being unrepresented by doing the win points with a percentage system of how many people with said army show up and how many win. They could even incorporate characters by simply deciding for example Karl is gonna fight in this battle, the point limit is this and mail instructions to a store and say this week Karl Franz will go to a random empire army of sufficient points. If he goes to a poor general and gets killed well Too bad that would be better then how SoC ended. Honestly more power to players influencing fluff by playing the game would make for a great campaign. Don't accommodate groups because they whine and complain, if they want to change something they should come out and play and win.

Offline Rocky

  • Members
  • Posts: 33
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2007, 11:18:14 PM »
I agree that SoC was a piece if shite what the hell why would an orc worlord not kill the chaos leader or the skaven pulling a big ass bomb out of there ass that does nothing to Middenhiem except go thumb in the ground.  the only thing that i am looking forward to in this campaign is the fact that Canada's portion of the map in the Riek Marches which ties my army right into the campaign I am going to make up some of my own fluff to make the campaign interesting for me and seeing how my brother is Morks Chariot we can have plenty of battles just around our army's and make up are own fluff.
 
If it's skin is green blow it up!!!!!!

Offline Rocky

  • Members
  • Posts: 33
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2007, 11:20:12 PM »
I also find this ironic that I created this entire discussion and it is my first post.  I just find it funny
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 11:46:44 PM by Rocky »
If it's skin is green blow it up!!!!!!

Offline Rightnow

  • Members
  • Posts: 195
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2007, 01:21:43 AM »
Perhaps this is the wrong place for this but since we are discussing orcs and the Empire. I've heard a number of O&G players complain about the new book. I find the list is just as tough as ever to play against. Thoughts?

Offline Morks Chariot

  • Members
  • Posts: 11
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2007, 01:39:50 AM »
Battle of da Bosses
Read that over, contains all the info about Gazzgurk capturing Solland/Wissenland and his plans to move north, also GW saying that this campaign will have an affect on Nemesis Crown.

Yeah, a lot of O&G players are pissed about the ending of SoC, but we're pleased that we managed to avoid portraying ourselves as chaos henchmen, which is what GW had set up.

The O&G army is still a very good army overall, standard Orcs are now absolute fiends in combat, NG got a few new bonuses, our magic is still strong. However, Common Gobs took a hard hit with the loss of extra chars, the switching of their shields to LA etc also many more of the "elite" parts of the army took a hit, so it's much harder to create a themed army now. You have to either play with standard Orcs or Night Goblins.

If you want to see the Orc hype head over to Da Warpath, we've got dozens of new posts a day about the campaign, lots of people are getting hyped up for this campaign.

Offline Ross

  • Members
  • Posts: 117
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2007, 01:56:41 AM »
Having read the conclusion to BodB (available here http://ca.games-workshop.com/BoB/helstrumnews5.htm) i think the statement that Wissenland/Solland is in green hands is a bit of a tad of a smidgen of an overstatement.

From what I've read, this fortress (Helstrum), at the very border of the state, was destroyed by the original Gorbad waagh. This was then recently rebuilt by a generic/2 dimensional/one size fits all general [insert German sounding name here] aided by lesser general [insert german....], one mounted, one dismounted to fully utilise the EmpGen box. 3 armies vying for leadership of a new waaaagh (with the position of cheitein having a vacancy thanks to WE) bet that the 1st to take down the fort wins the waaagh. They do so, with this wyzeguy coming up trumps. Then they have to run because...and i quote

Quote
He must move fast, the humans would soon return in force.

To be honest, ancient fort that was destoyed by orcs was rebuilt...........then destoyed by orcs.....doesn't sound too influential to me. Maybe i'm missing something.

And Morks Chariot, do you mind telling what role the cloaked figure in the night guy played in the conclusion?

Quote
As Gazzgurk turned from the battlements of Helstrum, with his two precious Squigs in tow, he failed to notice a single cloaked figure flee from the walls and steal silently into the night.

or no reason other than curiosity

Offline Dendo Star

  • Members
  • Posts: 4120
  • And......loving it.
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2007, 02:37:58 AM »
I was under the distinct impression that the ending of SoC was already written before it started.

I know the Doomsphere and some other fandom doodads were put in, but Grimgor and the Greenskins betraying Arch-boy was scripted from the start.

Also, if you beat a Wissenland border force, you haven't fought squat.  :-D  Hell, our best forces lurk in the forest!
I'm in college!

Offline FVC

  • Members
  • Posts: 1045
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2007, 08:35:47 AM »
I think they go about it all wrong, writing pre-determined fluff is a terrible idea for campaigns and allowing player fluff to influence the world is even worse. Not everyone gets a say and its highly subjective to organized groups.

Personally, I would suggest the opposite would be better. Player organised groups tend to be somewhat anarchic, and what you really end up with is the results being decided by vote. To put it simply, the masses don't have a clue what they're doing. If you're writing a story and get the public to choose what will happen in the next chapter by mass decision you're not going to end up with any coherent narrative. It'll be a mess, plain and simple.

No, go the other way completely. Player battles? Throw them out, they're worthless. Let the writers decide what's going to happen, hire a professional author or two. Then let them work out the plot beforehand and do not compromise. Every player will be biased, rooting for their own army and their own favourite character. You can't please everyone. When you do try to wrangle the background to please everyone, as they did in the Storm of Chaos, you end up with a indecisive pile of tangled plot threads that leaves everyone unsatisfied.

Offline rufus sparkfire

  • The Old Ones
  • Members
  • Posts: 33360
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2007, 11:14:03 AM »
War of the Wombats is not official GW fluff, so it will have no effect on this campign (plus I believe Battle of the Bosses was not only official, but more recent, so we do, in fact, hold Solland.)

Of course it was official - several games were held at a Games Workshop store, and at one point the store manager rolled one of the dice. During the campaign, we conquered several places that have not existed in the fluff for eight hundred years. We also gained control of the Nemesis Bucket, the Nemesis Fishing Rod and the Nemesis George Foreman Grill. The crown is practically ours already.
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline wissenlander

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 7468
  • The original Graf of Brennenburg
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2007, 12:13:31 PM »
I see, an incursion into the southlands of the county.  This is unfortunate as many brave men have died, but this is nothing out of the ordinary.  Orcs and goblins frequent this part of the land.  This border fort does not mean the downfall of Wissenland or the Empire.  I'd be much more worried if there was talk of Wissenburg or Pfeildorf being overun.

It seemed like a cool campaign (BoB) but it wasn't as grand of a campaign as I had thought.  Maybe this will lend to the story line in the Nemesis Crown but the orcs have to get through Wissenland now with Imperial troops down their necks. 

And despite what many may think *COUGH Dendo* Wissenland isn't a push over. :wink:  Or at least they shouldn't be, depending on how GW wants to take it. :x
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

not together.

finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline FVC

  • Members
  • Posts: 1045
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2007, 12:31:12 PM »
If Storm of Chaos was any indicator, Kislev, Ostland, and the Ostermark are all pushovers; why would they start being sensible with Wissenland? :icon_confused:

Offline wissenlander

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 7468
  • The original Graf of Brennenburg
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2007, 12:40:02 PM »
Hence why I put in the last sentence.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

not together.

finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Ross

  • Members
  • Posts: 117
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2007, 12:43:02 PM »
Sorry, but just for clarification, whats going on with Wolfenburg? I was out of the hobby at the time of SoC and i come back and the capital of my chosen state is reportedly burnt to sinders. Is this correct? I've read the conclusion and all i get is then "Ostland and the north are in tatters" spiel.

I assume Praag and Erengrad are goners too? There are so many loose ends/plot holes/grey ares that GW has just seems to shuffle its feet, grin sheepishly and brush under the rug

Offline wissenlander

  • Pure of Heart
  • Members
  • Posts: 7468
  • The original Graf of Brennenburg
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2007, 12:48:34 PM »
To my knowledge, it is basically in ruins.  That was a location on the SoC map and it fell, even though we were kicking some major chaos butt.  The story goes that the Northern Empire is laid to waste, any where that the chaos incursion touched.  I would assume that would involve Kislev as well but don't know for sure.

I know it's a kick in the pants to go away for a while and come back and your province is wrecked.  My condolences.
Me and Wissenlander had babies!

not together.

finding photographic evidense that Wiss smiles is going to be hard...

Offline Dendo Star

  • Members
  • Posts: 4120
  • And......loving it.
Re: The Summer Campaign
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2007, 01:12:59 PM »
I meant that they haven't fought sqaut, squat meaning the main Wissenland forces, man!

Sheesh, my boys started in Wissenland...  :wink:
I'm in college!