Topic: 40K

[Crimsonsphinx]

If it was genuinely berserk though, it would be nearest in LOS, rather than the more methodical method currently implemented in the rules.  That said I also play the nearest model rule, even if it does break it!

If I do field a land raider I use it for berserker delivery as well.  Powerfist on the champion is a must 

I will attempt to explain the spawn inclusion.  It is fairly poor logic really, but it made sense at the time.  Basically if I have to put something near it, I wanted something sufficiently cheap and expendable that wouldn't die in 1 hit.  A spawn is a much better option as fodder than a marine squad.

I have had some interesting battles using all three of my dreads against my friends marine army where he has two iron clads and a venerable.  Its like playing battletech again 

I was so tempted by the blood angels dex, the opportunity to take loads of dreadnaughts really appeals to me.  I love mechs 

[Aldaris]

So do I. CSM have to get a Daishi in their next dex!

[Crimsonsphinx]

Id settle for them fixing fire frenzy but I suspect this will only happen if the current metal 2nd edition model is replaced with an all singing all dancing plastic kit.  Much like new plastic chaos terminators meant really good rules in the current 4th ed book.

Haven't loyalists had five plastic dreadnaught kits already?  Regular dread, ironclad and venerable are all plastic correct?  As is the black reach and blood angel ones? 

Everyone else gets plastic walker/mech models apart from chaos.

BTW I used to use a Warhammer when I played battle tech in my gaming group. 

[Mathi Alfblut]

OII! Stop complaining you shoddy heretic! The pentinent engine still comes in heretical crushing metal too!

[Crimsonsphinx]

They still exist?  I wasn't aware they did. 

[Feanor Fire Heart]

does anyone play Tau/have hints on army comp?

HQ
The Ethereal (or Aun as I always put it) is pretty much a waste.  Fluffy and cool models to convert but overall usually a waste even with a bodyguard squad.  I have no love for special characters.  Many like the Shas'el because its cheaper than the shas'O but I like that the Shas'O has slightly better stats.  there are tons of load outs to try on your basttlesuits.  I try to make the squad versatile. I never get bodyguards with my commander, I usually just stick them in a regular battlesuit squad.  You get the same effect for a slightly lower price, plus the squad is now 4 battle suits strong instead of 3. Do not over load on gun drones in this squad as if you have more drones than battlesuits you will have to use your drones armor save when you get shot at.

Elite
yeah stealth squads with burst cannons are friggin awesome!  A 6 man squad of these in my experience have turned an ork boyz squad into mush in one turn.  I used to play against Blood angels alot and they could eradicate the 5 man termie squads I would encounter.  Just so many powerful shots!

Troops
Kroot are awesome in large numbers.  i used to max them out 20 kroot including shaper plus some kroot hounds just to bolster them up.  Great for screening your fire warriors and total monsters in close combat!  Fire warriors are pretty damn good with the rifles.  There are really no reason to give them carbines because they can now rapid fire after moving.  I suppose you could give one to your Shas'ui to pin down enemies to prevent counter charges next turn.  Many like to put them in devil rays for protection and to speed them where you want them.

Fast Attack
In my personal opinion Stingwings are pretty useless too.  Sure their weapons can punch through marine army like no other and they have T 4, but honestly they have crap range with that weapon that the next turn you'll end up in CC on your opponents turn after you fire at a squad.  You have imperial guard flak armor on them so once the marines do get in close combat chances are you wont last.  The only thing in your favor in CC is that T4.  Gun drones are nice if you have a few points left over.  You can use them to screen or jump around and harass.  I never used a piranha and rarely see other commanders use them.  If I were to use them I would give them fusion blasters the better BS upgrade, drones, and speed them across the map as fast as possible to kill vehicles and heavy infantry.  Points are probably better spent elsewhere though.

I have not personally done this but I am seeing people use sky rays over pathfinders.  Its slightly cheaper for the same effect.

Heavy
Hammer heads and 2 man broadsides with the wargear that lets you split fire and have slow and purposeful is every T'au hunter cadre's bread and butter.  The only real weapon to use on your hammer head is the rail gun. Period.  you can switch from the anti-tank round to a subression anti-infantry round any time and what shooting army doesnt like throwing down those pie plates on an enemy army!?  I never had a chance to use the drone sniper quads and have yet to see any Tau players use them but I imagine they would be good for eliminating high profile squads at a distance like termies, wraithlords, or Dev/havocs.

_________________________________________________________

Thanks for the input Crimson and Aldaris.  i have a lot to think about.  I see your point on doombolt as it is basically the same as what the aspiring sorcerers already have except they get 3 shots instead of the normal 1.  I'll probably play with the list today or tonight.

edit: Are you sure about the PF over the lightning claws? I already have 2 melta guns.

[Aldaris]

Lightning claws have their advantages - extra attack and reroll to wound. A PF however allows you to handle Walkers and monsters in cc where your LCs wouldn't be so hot. Meltaguns are nice, but they don't help in cc.

You don't NEED a PF over the LC, but it's the more verstaile option.

[Feanor Fire Heart]

okay I think I'll keep them then.

HQ
Chaos Sorcerer 170 pts
-Wind of Change
-Doombolt
-Mark of Tzeentch

Chaos Lord 165pts
-Jump Pack
-Mark of Tzeentch
-Demon Weapon

Elite
5 Chaos Termies 200pts
-3 combi-melta
-1 chainfist
-Champ pair of lightning claws
- Mark of Tzeentch

Troops
9 1k Sons      317pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Doombolt
-Personal Icon
Rhino

8 1k Sons      309pts
1 Aspiring Sorcerer
- Warptime
Personal Icon
Rhino

Fast Attack
12 raptors 345pts
-Mark of Tzeentch
-2 Melta Gun
-Champion with pair of lightning claws and melta bombs.

Heavy
Predator 165 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons

Predator 165 pts
-Twin Lascannons
-Lascannon Sponsons

Defiler 155pts
-extra defiler weapon
-Havoc Launcher

Total 1991pts.

I beefed up the raptors to 12 men (that includes the champ, lord would make it 13). scraped the extra armor, Kept the jump pack and forgone the disc.  Sure it gives me an extra attack but I rather like the model with a jetpack.  I figured that because I am deep striking my termies and they have power weapons might at well give the champ a pair of LC too. i gave the aspiring sorcerer in the same squad as the sorcerer lord warp time as the sorcerer lord already has doombolt and wind of change.  Because I would deepstrike the termies I gave icons to my 1k son squads to help guide them if need be.

[Aldaris]

Try it and see how it goes.

[Feanor Fire Heart]

I think it seems pretty versatile.  Should be interesting.  Now to accumulate the funds and go kick some ass.


oh and to you eldar players out there.  whats your feelings on striking scorpions.  I hear so many mixed feelings out there!

[Aldaris]

I think it seems pretty versatile.  Should be interesting.  Now to accumulate the funds and go kick some ass.

I would strongly advise to get in a few games with proxied models before you commit to buying anything, especially since models like raptors are quite expensive and you may well find that you still want to tweak the list.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Striking scorpions are my joint favourite hand to hand unit in the eldar, along with a seer council.

I know a lot of people prefer banshees, but if you are building an all comers list, scorps are better.  More attacks, higher strength, better saves.  Exarch has access to a powerfist and a relatively okay gun. [okay its s6 but it avoids wound allocation issues].  I wouldn't bother with chainsabres, although the biting blade thing can be good against tanks/dreads.

Edit:  Because I am sad, I actually spent an hour rolling some dice for imaginary hand to hand combats, with 10 banshees w/exarch with executioner vs 10 scorpions w/exarch with scorpions claw against various different units.  Against marines, provided the Exarch actually hits, you only do slightly worse with scorps than you do banshees, and against anything weaker, you do a lot better.

Scorps should be able to go toe to toe with assault marines and win.  The problem IMO is that eldar aspects should be more on par with veterans than bog standard marines, but this is an issue across the board with eldar.

I still say take a powerfist over a lightning claw.  If you play a few games, you will eventually get frustrated with the wound allocation rules if you take something striking at the same time as the rest of your unit.  Obviously on terminators, this is not an issue as they all have power weapons.  I actually have five lightning claw chaos terminators and a lightning claw terminator lord, so it isn't that I dislike the weapon, its just striking on initiative with power weapons in the current rule set is not optimal unless the whole unit has them.

I made my own raptors from assault marines and chaos marines    They are traitors from the "Crimson Ultra Fists" chapter [because in my gaming group we have Ultramarines and Crimson Fists, so my chaos raptors have a mix of their paint jobs.

[MrDWhitey]

Scorpions are easily the best general purpose assault unit Eldar have.

Because of Strength 4 and more attacks, they only do a little (literally a little) bit worst against marines than Banshees do (and Banshees will execute marines). The 3+ save helps them do this, as they'll survive longer in a protracted combat. Plus, at Initiative 5, they do all those masses of strikes first against marines. 10 Scorpions charging a marine unit is 36 Str4 attacks before the marines can strike, and 4 Str6 Ignoring Armour after. And this huge amount of attacks, at initiative 5, is what makes them so good against hordes, where Banshees will falter.

Banshees + Doom = Remove any Marine/Terminator unit in game.

Scorpions + Doom = Remove lots/all Marine unit/lots of the Terminator one.

An amusing note, you can have both the Scorpions Claw and the Biting Blade.

[rufus sparkfire]

Surely death cult assassins are better than either!

[Aldaris]

Yes, DCA are pretty damn nifty. If I ever do start my own Inquisition/Grey Knights force, I'll try a mixed unit with mainly DCA, some Crusaders and 2-3 Arco Flagellants. Quite resilient with a ridiculous number of high S/power weapon attacks. Perhaps led by an inquisitor with Hammerhand...?

[rufus sparkfire]

Arco-thingies are lame. Who needs them? They don't even have power weapons.

Death cult get 3 WS5 S4 I6 power attacks base.

Perhaps led by an inquisitor with Hammerhand...?

And rad grenades. +1S for you, -1T for them. Die!

[Crimsonsphinx]

An amusing note, you can have both the Scorpions Claw and the Biting Blade.

I thought all Exarch weapons were Or choices not And/Or?  I will have to investigate.  I am not entirely sure that it is worth the points though, even if you can, as the biting blade is generally worse than the scorpions claw against everything that has no armour value. 

Have you ever used Dark reapers in the current book MrDWhitey?  They seem too expensive for me to even try, although I am tempted by the Tempest launcher.  Id rather have war walkers for my points as it stands though.

In my experience, Seer councils are the best unit for killing things in hand to hand, and with fortune, the most survivable 

Of course DCA are better than Eldar everything.  Grey Knights are a Wardex!   

[MrDWhitey]

Read the Codex and you will see.

It's a "depends" thing some players do in fixed list settings. It makes them useful versus tanks with the whole Outflank thing.

I have used Dark Reapers. Answer is Cover Saves. Only the Exarch is deadly use with a Tempest Launcher and Crack Shot. Goes down to Str4, but Crack shot means he ignores cover and rerolls wounds. And it's two blast templates with AP3.

[Crimsonsphinx]

Thats what I mean, you are effectively paying a huge amount of points for two wound markers in the other two dark reapers.   At nearly 200 points for this tiny unit, I just can't justify it myself!

For a lot less points I can take one of my D cannon platforms, which absolutely terrify units not in cover, including monoliths which I normally struggle to kill.

I will read my dex when I get home tonight.

My seer council cause fear.  They dish out parking tickets to enemy tanks.

[rufus sparkfire]

Brief guide to inquisitorial henchmen:


Amazing

- death cult: twenty billion power weapon attacks.

- crusaders: 3+ ward save. Also has a power weapon, just because.

- jokaero: space monkey. Has three heavy weapons at his disposal, and a random bonus for his unit.

- warriors: can have melta and plasma guns. Can also take storm bolters! Power armour and close combat weapons are too expensive to bother with.


OK

- servitors: mindlock forces you to keep an inquisitor with them. Cheap plasma cannons! Also cheap heavy bolters, but no one needs those. Likewise multi-meltas (jokaero have them).

- Mystic: useful if you want to deepstrike near one.

- psyker: potentially good, but too unreliable to use in large groups. Will all die if they get a perils of the warp result.

- arco flagellant: not quite as good as the death cult assassin.



Rubbish

- Banishers: his special ability only works on demons. Grey knights already have a million anti-demon things built in. The eviserator is expensive, and he only gets one attack anyway.

- Demonhost: random weak ability. No good at fighting. Fluff issues!


And as for inquisitors:

Xenos [amazing]

- rad and psychotroke grenades! Plasma syphon!

- also can have a conversion beamer, which is weird and awkward, and a needle pistol which is expensive. And a poisoned dagger, which I doubt you ever need.

- the special character is expensive and has a lot of random items.


Maleus [good]

- can have terminator armour (and a psycannon!).

- can take a nemesis demon hammer and an incinerator. Can also take a demon blade, but it's rubbish.

- Coteaz is one of these. He unlocks henchmen as troops.


Hereticus [rubbish]

-Can take a melta pistol, and some dedicated anti-psyker stuff that no one needs. Almost useless.

- the fool on the walking throne is one of these. He looks absurd.



Please tell me if I am horribly wrong about any of these things!

[Aldaris]

Gladly. You are wrong about Karamazov looking absurd.

[rufus sparkfire]

He goes into battle on a giant walking throne.

Which doesn't have a force field.


!

[Crimsonsphinx]

Brief guide to inquisitorial henchmen:


Amazing

- death cult: twenty billion power weapon attacks.

- crusaders: 3+ ward save. Also has a power weapon, just because.

- jokaero: space monkey. Has three heavy weapons at his disposal, and a random bonus for his unit.

- warriors: can have melta and plasma guns. Can also take storm bolters! Power armour and close combat weapons are too expensive to bother with.


OK

- servitors: mindlock forces you to keep an inquisitor with them. Cheap plasma cannons! Also cheap heavy bolters, but no one needs those. Likewise multi-meltas (jokaero have them).

- Mystic: useful if you want to deepstrike near one.

- psyker: potentially good, but too unreliable to use in large groups. Will all die if they get a perils of the warp result.

- arco flagellant: not quite as good as the death cult assassin.



Rubbish

- Banishers: his special ability only works on demons. Grey knights already have a million anti-demon things built in. The eviserator is expensive, and he only gets one attack anyway.

- Demonhost: random weak ability. No good at fighting. Fluff issues!


And as for inquisitors:

Xenos [amazing]

- rad and psychotroke grenades! Plasma syphon!

- also can have a conversion beamer, which is weird and awkward, and a needle pistol which is expensive. And a poisoned dagger, which I doubt you ever need.

- the special character is expensive and has a lot of random items.


Maleus [good]

- can have terminator armour (and a psycannon!).

- can take a nemesis demon hammer and an incinerator. Can also take a demon blade, but it's rubbish.

- Coteaz is one of these. He unlocks henchmen as troops.


Hereticus [rubbish]

-Can take a melta pistol, and some dedicated anti-psyker stuff that no one needs. Almost useless.

- the fool on the walking throne is one of these. He looks absurd.



Please tell me if I am horribly wrong about any of these things!

I would imagine if this was fluff based, Malleus should be the most hardcore as daemons are a lot more dangerous than most Xenos and Heriticus enemies!  Where is Eisenhorn, he should be in the book!  I like the warrior henchmen the best, the Joakaros are interesting, if expensive.  Crusader models are pimp too, so I am agreed with those three in the best catagory

[Aldaris]

He goes into battle on a giant walking throne.

Yes!

Nurgle guys sit in chairs carried by deseased demon gremlins. And the Archlector rides a mobile church.
Welcome to Warhammer.
 

[rufus sparkfire]

I would imagine if this was fluff based, Malleus should be the most hardcore as daemons are a lot more dangerous than most Xenos and Heriticus enemies!

Probably!

Of course they will actually all die within five minutes, since they have T3 and no ward save.

Nurgle guys sit in chairs carried by deseased demon gremlins.

Demons, so force fields.

And the Archlector rides a mobile church.

Based on a real thing. Also, wagon.


Giant walking throne = silly, even by 40K standards. I would give it a pass if there was a force field to stop someone shooting that idiot right in the head. But there isn't.