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Author Topic: The new WD mag #319  (Read 9555 times)

Offline Gargoyle

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The new WD mag #319
« on: July 04, 2006, 11:30:32 AM »
Anyone seen the UK copy yet?
It's 24 pages smaller than last month and has only 6 pages of Warhammer fantasy material inside.
Has anybody else seen this copy?
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Offline Midaski

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 11:57:12 AM »
GudDay Possum.

I get it on subscription.

Don't do page counts, but I'll take your word for it.

I actually thought it was better this month - I liked the Gotrex Felix bit, and have my eye on Ulrika.
I made it more than 6 pages, as there is some blending painting stuff, WE and a Beasts bit.

Anyway let's be careful with this thread - we have had discussions about the current format / direction of WD before, and generally it is agreed WD will live or die by its policy.

Personally I will review the situation when my sub is up for renewal.
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Offline General Helstrom

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 12:03:55 PM »
I was sorely disappointed by WD 319. Very little reading value. The 40K battle report had all the ingredients to be awesome (good scenario, beautiful terrain) but it was executed very poorly. The Gotrek & Felix bit was ok. The remaining 90+ pages were completely worthless. And that "Grombrindal" character just makes my eyes boil with liquid rage.

If the WD316 fall-out has been taken to heart, we should be seeing some improvement over the next two or three issues. Fingers crossed!

This should be in the Tavern, by the way :-)
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Offline Fafnir

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 12:18:25 PM »
WD316 fall-out? :-o
EDIT: see Africa for more examples ...

Offline General Helstrom

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 12:30:37 PM »
WD316 sparked nothing less than a riot on the GWOLUKWD (yay acronyms!) forum. Lots of nasty things were said. It apparently made quite an impact around the offices of WD.
I don't know what Caesar thought when he got to the Ides of March
Don't know what Houdini bought when he went to the store
But I sure do miss the eighties

Offline deathfred

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2006, 03:06:16 PM »
i think there has been a lack of warhammer material as they are running a 40k campaign atm so hopefully it will improve when the new rulebook is relised...
it better do

Offline Guvnor

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2006, 03:15:49 PM »
Oh, read that jervis guy's intro about his children, he pretty much sums up GW's attitude, "its the miniatures that are important, not the gameplay". :roll: Oh, and imagine that smiley without the little grin on the end.

This sounds bad. I'd prefer to play with blobs of clay with exciting gameplay than the other way round.

This is not good for the magazine- sounds like we'll be getting more pictures, less fake batlle reports, less background and less interesting stuff.

Oh, and read the description on the front 'monthly miniatures magazine.' Not good either.

Hmmm... I timed myself reading it, less than ten minutes cover to cover (not looking at pictures). Not good.  :|

The Gotrek and felix bit wasn't that good, perhaps the painting bit was useful, to some, but it didn't interest me as much as it might some.

Please don't use that acronym again. Please.
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Offline Fafnir

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2006, 04:36:13 PM »
I'd prefer to play with blobs of clay with exciting gameplay than the other way round.

I don't know what Jervis Johnson wrote, but not everyone agrees with the above though. For me, collecting and painting the miniatures is the most important aspect of the hobby. Rules and game-play comes second. I stayed on with 40K for a very long time for that reason, even if I dispised the rules, and the only reason I eventually quit was that I didn't have enough time and resources to devote to both systems.

Now, I'm not saying the system isn't important, far from it. However, I would be fine with White Dwarf dedicated to nothing but selling miniatures, if they only did it well. I'd pay good money for a hundred pages of conversions, miniature showcases, player's armies and articles about miniatures, if it was done well.
EDIT: see Africa for more examples ...

Offline Gargoyle

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2006, 05:19:01 PM »
I hear you old timer (Midaski) truth is, nobody should be falling out about what the WD is/has become.
Yeah it's sad but thats the nature of things in a business situation.
I'm comfortable with the fact that GW doesn't care about being the best anymore, they just care about being the most profitable.
Following that thinking it makes sense to slash the pages on the WD and increase the pictures. Decrease publishing costs.
It's all about the miniatures.

I don't need a mag to create fluff for me, I back myself to make better fluff for my campaigns than any school leaver on a PC. Sheesh, same goes for 90% of the membership here, i'm confident the experienced gamers on this forum could do just as well, probably better with a modicum of effort.

I have to disagree with both chaps who posted earlier;
I think that the miniatures and the gameplay are equally important.

I am just as disappointed at the attitude of GW, turning their backs on the adult gamer , as everybody else, but they are interested in making money and contrary to their opinion,  they are NOT the hobby.

Tabletop miniature gaming in the fantasy genre is the hobby and there are a lot of other options out there for adults who play with 'Empire' armies.
U betcha.
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Offline General Helstrom

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2006, 05:56:06 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I love collecting, modelling, converting and painting miniatures. But Jervis (of all people!) telling us that the game is just "the icing on the cake" stings like hell. The reason I love Warhammer is because it combines modelling, gaming, and even writing. The synergy of building and painting a unit, imagining or even writing down its background, and using it in the game is what sets Warhammer apart from model railroads, CCG's, or RPGs.

I'm sure that these aspects weigh differently for different gamers, but if you hold one aspect far above the others, you're not getting nearly as much out of the hobby as you could.
I don't know what Caesar thought when he got to the Ides of March
Don't know what Houdini bought when he went to the store
But I sure do miss the eighties

Offline Fafnir

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2006, 06:05:05 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I love collecting, modelling, converting and painting miniatures. But Jervis (of all people!) telling us that the game is just "the icing on the cake" stings like hell. The reason I love Warhammer is because it combines modelling, gaming, and even writing. The synergy of building and painting a unit, imagining or even writing down its background, and using it in the game is what sets Warhammer apart from model railroads, CCG's, or RPGs.

Obviously, I just said that if I had to choose, I would rather have good miniatures with bad rules than blobs of clay with good rules. :-D
EDIT: see Africa for more examples ...

Offline TK/Emp

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2006, 08:56:36 PM »
WD used to be a good mag to read about our hobby. It has most definitely taken a downward spiral in that regards.

As for me WFB has ALWAYS been about the game then about the modeling/collecting aspect.

I don't care how great the models are if the rules aren't any good I wouldn't play. Of course I have never been real found of the modeling/painting aspect of the game. Which really hurts me because I have a tendency to be a pefectionist modeler/painter so I create alot more work for myself than I should be.


TK/Emp

Offline Misfratz

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2006, 10:46:41 PM »
I had almost decided to give up on WD, in favour of spending my money on some of the better made Black Library products, but #319 did seem to be a bit better in some respects.

That stealth Tau suit was simply awesome.

I've been a bit disappointed with Jervis' contribution, though.  I expect more from him.  Recent examples where he's been good would include the Eldar battle report in Fanatic mag, and his Dark Elves battle report when he first returned to WD.  This showed that Jervis is capable of writing about the games with a few more layers of subtlety than we've been used to seeing ["Flamers are good in CityFights kids!"].

It's thanks to the WD battle reports of yore that I was able to impress some army cadet guys at Uni with my knowledge of military theory ["Concentration of Force", "Maintenance of Aim" and all that jazz].  I don't think that WD is currently at that sort of intellectual level and that saddens me.

Still best go - seem to be some sort of electricity funnyness going on here... [Must be the cooling system up at the local supercomputer messing with the grid...]
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Offline duckman

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2006, 11:18:22 PM »
Yep, latest isuue sucks like a black hole. Gotrek and Felix? Yawn. The 150 dollar collection on a scenic resin base? Put the crack pipe down idiots.
I feel vaguely guilty every month when my issue turns up in the post and I have to pretend it's like the second coming when the missus asks if it's a good read, she spent a good amount on the sub so it becomes a bit of a bummer for her to hear, nope, it's more kiddie-k rubbish and bored of the rings that nobody plays any more.
Jervis wants to take a long hard look at himself, that article was the bloody pits. If it was, indeed, all about the minis, then everyone would be collecting Confrontation or Reaper or Dark Ages.
City fight. Boring. LotR. Noone cares. Battle reports. Gack. Cheese lists anyone?
WD used to be a damn fine publication, nowadays it's not something I'd go out and pay for. Remember the good old days? When we got free card buildings or a mini now and then or some such, how good was that? Come issue 300 and we got zip (at least here in Australia). I have collected WD since the first issue, my, my, what a difference the years have brought us.
From a purely "get bent" point of view, I would not be sorry to see these twits go under. Why? Because they deserve to, for their b.s. cavalier attitude to the very people who put them where they are. From a purely selfish pov, I don't want them to go because I like a lot of what they do.
Sadly, I don't se the powers that be at GW ever removing their collective heads from their a$$e$ and actually listening to what gamers want. Maybe they should produce another magazine for the Space Marine loving cheese freaks who also play LotR, and make another magazine like WD used to be for the rest of us.....
Wake up!!GW, or else you might just find you're out of a job.....

cheers
duckman
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Offline Warlord

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2006, 02:52:30 AM »
Yep, latest isuue sucks like a black hole. Gotrek and Felix? Yawn. The 150 dollar collection on a scenic resin base? Put the crack pipe down idiots.
I feel vaguely guilty every month when my issue turns up in the post and I have to pretend it's like the second coming when the missus asks if it's a good read, she spent a good amount on the sub so it becomes a bit of a bummer for her to hear, nope, it's more kiddie-k rubbish and bored of the rings that nobody plays any more.
Jervis wants to take a long hard look at himself, that article was the bloody pits. If it was, indeed, all about the minis, then everyone would be collecting Confrontation or Reaper or Dark Ages.
City fight. Boring. LotR. Noone cares. Battle reports. Gack. Cheese lists anyone?
WD used to be a damn fine publication, nowadays it's not something I'd go out and pay for. Remember the good old days? When we got free card buildings or a mini now and then or some such, how good was that? Come issue 300 and we got zip (at least here in Australia). I have collected WD since the first issue, my, my, what a difference the years have brought us.
From a purely "get bent" point of view, I would not be sorry to see these twits go under. Why? Because they deserve to, for their b.s. cavalier attitude to the very people who put them where they are. From a purely selfish pov, I don't want them to go because I like a lot of what they do.
Sadly, I don't se the powers that be at GW ever removing their collective heads from their a$$e$ and actually listening to what gamers want. Maybe they should produce another magazine for the Space Marine loving cheese freaks who also play LotR, and make another magazine like WD used to be for the rest of us.....
Wake up!!GW, or else you might just find you're out of a job.....

duckman

Duckman, I couldn't agree with you more.

Whats worse, is that my partner actually started me up on the subscription at 315. I am appreciative of her thought and effort, if only GW could put in the same.

Jervis's article was a joke. Except no-one I know who read it was laughing. I am under the serious impression that GW salesmen said 'Hey Jervis, can you write up a couple of BS pages to remind everyone that they should buy our miniatures because they look cool? Thanks, and here's your cut of the sales'. Whats more insulting, is that he writes it from the perspective of a parent (or adult) which we as an adult gamer can relate to, however writes in relation to Warhammer (in all forms) only really being sold and played by kids. WD if only purchased by kids would not want to read his adult opinion. WD if only purchased by adults would not want to hear him discounting their existance completely. I find Jervis's article abysmal and degrading.

And whats with the over abundance of Beastmen in this issue? Beasts sales must be down.... And a back of the book Skaven list, WITH special character. Wow, how unbalanced and Illegal.

A kid reads that, takes a list like that, and wonders why he gets called cheesy? His friends don't accept back of the book lists? Too bad!!

I have been looking forward to WD for the past 2 weeks, hoping they put something interesting in there. Nope. *hopes dashed again, to be futilely raised in 2 weeks in anticipation of WD320, no doubt another disappointment*
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Offline Guvnor

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2006, 07:49:33 AM »
Don't get me wrong fafnir, I love beautiful models. I would prefer a better gameplay system because I know that I can find good models from elsewhere.

How good GW's models are doesn't bother me, as internet sites often sell cheaper and nicer metals models that just need a bit of conversion work.

I feel imagination is important in games and that models aren't so important in terms of gameplay- roleplay games don't have figures and look at D&D figures.

Wheni I paint my models I do so because I display my army- and like it when people complement me on it, it wouldn't matter to me whether I then left it on the shelf and played with those blobs of clay.

I agree with GH, it was the icing on the cake comment that got me. In addition- 'the thing that unites everyone in this hobby is that we all love citadel miniatures.' I disagree, I think its the hard work, imagination and dedication to creating something fun that GW put into their work to play that really unites us here. (Before someone bites my head off, I said'put' not 'puts' )

@Warlord: Where is this skaven thing? Note I recieve UK edition.

Something else- has anyone noticed the showcase of the black legion army is actually that same iron warriors army that the guy was building up before?

That preview must have been a bit of a joke- they must know we have all seen it on the internet (or I saw it at games day- otherwise waste of money).

I'm not happy about the angry, mean looking goblins, I liked the bumbly, fun and crazy goblins.

Lastly, I am very annoyed by wood elves. So far there have been three articles on how to paint thenm for different seasons.
How many types of winter are there?
In fact, the exact same models have been used each time.

All say aye, if you want W-E.com to produce its own version of WD, it is garuanteed to be better!  :roll:

I'm actually seriously considering this.
I have one sentence in response to the engineer and mechanical: Empire is post-feudal age, not post-nuclear age!

Offline valmir

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2006, 09:55:33 AM »
Quote from: Guvnor
All say aye, if you want W-E.com to produce its own version of WD, it is garuanteed to be better! 

I'm actually seriously considering this.

Isn't ther an initiative over on Bugman's to this effect? I think the idea is that it is an intersite fan magazine, containing everything WD used to and... dare I say it... more!
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Offline General Helstrom

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2006, 10:07:45 AM »
Having seen the amount of effort that went into creating just four Newsletters for last year's campaign, and expecting any intersite magazine to be up to the same standard if it is to compete with anything, I'm a bit sceptical. Getting a magazine up to a consistently high quality, with an attractive format, featuring captivating articles which are neither shallow nor boring, is very hard work. And it needs to be done as well or better for the next issue, which is always too closely around the corner. I don't think volunteers would be able to maintain that effort for more than a few months - but I would love to be proven wrong!
I don't know what Caesar thought when he got to the Ides of March
Don't know what Houdini bought when he went to the store
But I sure do miss the eighties

Offline redjoey

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2006, 11:07:02 AM »
I haven't bought a WD since 304. How glad am I that I saved myself the cash?

I didn't like the lack info in the magazine and the pages telling me where their stores are, random pictures to fill pages up and crap battle reports.
I think the last battle report I read was Chaos vs. Empire. The Empire didn't have a single detachment in the entire army and I think they just closed their eyes and put the finger down on a unit to pick, then rolling 4D6 to determine unit size. Needless to say the Empire managed to get hammered without killing much.

I have to say I have learnt more from being on this forum for about 5 months than I have reading the WDs for ten years.

So a big thank you to the lads on the site and a big f**k you to the WD magazine and team.
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution.

Offline Clarkarias

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2006, 11:44:23 AM »
nope, it's more kiddie-k rubbish and bored of the rings that nobody plays any more.

I love the Lord of the Rings.  Excellent minis, excellent rules.

Mind you, I don't think it should have a very large section in WD.  Just a small section with domination going to Fantasy and 40K (and I'm being fair because I hate 40K).  The mag should be at most 1/5th LotR and atleast 2/5th Fantasy, 2/5th 40K.

And as for the mag...I think they shouldn't have a magazine at all.  I love Black Gobbo (the US online mag).  That's how they should spread word to all of us 'nerds' about exciting new material - via the internet!
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Offline General Helstrom

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2006, 12:19:18 PM »
There's an interesting point in there.

I believe that the WD strategy is currently the wrong way around in regards to the "complementary" nature of the regular and the online WD. What they're doing right now is using the magazine as a vehicle for pictures of models, and the ezine for articles (at which, I might add, they're not doing a terribly good job either). This plays to the strengths of neither format, but emphasises the weaknesses of both.

Ezines have a few very marked advantages: They're REALLY cheap to distribute (to the point where the advertisement value alone outweighs the entire production cost), and rather quick to create (whereas the paper mag has a 3-month production cycle, I'd imagine no more than a few weeks for the ezine). This means an ezine can be much cheaper - even free - and much more up to date than a paper mag could ever hope to be.

However, ezines have the disadvantage of being practically non-portable (as you need a computer to read them) and ill-suited to lengths of text (people generally just don't like reading long pieces of text off a screen).

So what does that tell you?

Use the ezine for fast, cheap, picture-heavy advertisment of the latest products and releases. Season with fast-paced articles to give it a little weight, but not too much. Release on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. Pad with user-submitted material (pictures, mostly) to fill space between releases and/or to foster customer loyalty (people love seeing their own stuff published). FAQ/Q&A/Errata material GOES HERE due to the speed of distribution and easy world-wide accessibility.

Then use the magazine to add depth. Publish tactical articles, showcase step-by-step conversions, advanced painting techniques, battle reports, track a studio campaign, explore interesting game ideas, have "background & opinions" from the studio. Sprinkle lightly with advertisements and use pictures maintly for illustrative purposes. Create something people can read in bed, on the toilet, while commuting, or at work. Slash it down to 60-80 pages per month instead of the over-expensive 100+, but fill it with solid content.


I would be happy to receive both. I would consider them complimentary. I'd have pictures to drool over for a few minutes (having a 19" flatscreen helps) and a meaty magazine to read for a few hours. I would absorb advertisments as well as deepen my understanding of and commitment to the hobby. And I'd pay for it.
I don't know what Caesar thought when he got to the Ides of March
Don't know what Houdini bought when he went to the store
But I sure do miss the eighties

Offline Phydox

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2006, 01:28:02 PM »
My favorite part of White Dwarf Mag was the battle report.  Its almost insulting how bad its gotten.  The Battle Report used to be "blow by blow",  turn by turn, with pictures that actually showed you the placement, positions of units, and actual strategy. 

Now, its become a 2-3 turn summary, followed by the opponents 2-3 turn summary, and tons of glossy model pics.  Its become a photo opportunity to display new models.  In a few more years, the battle report is simply gonna be a catwalk where all the models walk down it and get their pictures taken.

I agree with General Helstrom.  The ezine works better for pics.  Detailed information should be in a hard copy format.  I like seeing new models in the pipeline, new army color combinations and conversions, but this can really be done on line.  I don't like straining my eyes reading detailed articles online, I like a hard copy.  Also, there's no phone jack in my bathroom.  Eventually, all that coffee has to go somewhere.

Which reminds me, i better get going...
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Offline Fafnir

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2006, 02:23:58 PM »
I couldn't agree more with General Helstrom. 's all I wanted to say really. :-)
EDIT: see Africa for more examples ...

Offline shveen

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2006, 04:16:47 PM »
This is interesting something i read in WD 301 or 300 says the Paul Sawyer turned WD from a catalog to a hobby magazine  :|.
  This appears to have changed and WD is turning back into a catalog.


*sigh*


shveen
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Offline wisenheimer

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Re: The new WD mag #319
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2006, 04:48:02 PM »
I'm just curious...

Has anyone heard anything about the background? They seem to intent upon removing fluff from the magazine. Black Gobbo was never intended as a fluff mechanism. They eliminated Inferno, Citadel Journal, Warhammer Monthly etal.

It seems to me that the priority has become:

Miniatures
The game (because they have to, not because they want to)
The fantasy world they've created

There are lots of miniature manufacturers and games to choose from, but only one world.