Topic: 'Ard Boyz List Discussions

[Bigglesworth]

With 'Ard Boyz less than a month away I've been debating my lists.  3k Points I'm debating six mortars and two steam tanks.  I go back and forth on the war altar as I think it will just be cannon fodder.  This is my first 'Zard Boyz tournament so I'd appreciate any insights!

[Odominus]

I would check out the scenarios if I were you. Heavy warmachines may not be your wisest choice. Scenarios #1 and #3 has the potential to nerf Empire WMs...badly.  Although mortars are nice as you can indirect fire (who cares about LOS right?). The only drawback is NO CANNONS. Stank cannons are ok but are not on the same level with engineer supported cannons. And without those, I tend to think that list will get eaten up and spit out at Ard Boyz.

Semi-finals seems much more tame scenario-wise.

A magic lore without a lot of LOS spells may be in order...

The Walter is critical (imo) for success. The leadership bubble alone makes it worth the 100 points.  Having a nearby unit to join is a time-honored strategy in the event the altar is destroyed. I did it much more often in 7th due to the str7+chariots rule. Dawn armor and Dragonbane gem is how I kit the AL out. I find that at least 2 turns a game I have an extra 1-2 dice left over when my opponent is out of dice and I get to freely attempt to cast any light spell and it is usually is a game changer.

[Delthos]

If you're feeling lucky go with 6 mortars and two steam tanks. If the Lightening Bolt comes up once early in the 3rd game you can say good buy to most of your mortars, and your steam tanks will be all but worthless at that point if they take more than 1 or 2 wounds from it. I'd definitely do a Knights of the Dinner Table purging on your dice, then some luck rubs on them. Then hope your opponent is ok with you rolling all the important stuff, like LOS rolls in scenario #1 and random event rolls in scenario #3. If you are lucky you'll keep rolling a Tsunami in #3, which should go a long way towards ensuring a victory for you in that one. Just remember to move a character out to control the objective as someone has to control it in order for either player to win.

I'm still debating on exactly what I want to take. I know what I'd really like to take, but in light of the scenarios I'm changing it some. I think it's silly to not take any war machines, but I'm not going to take as many as I would normally do in a 3,000 point game. I'm really going to have to assemble a bunch of minis before the tournament though, as what I have assembled is for my normal games, not the 'Ard Boys tournaments.

[astorre]

On that note I just played the 3rd scenario with a buddy who plays Bretonnians & we had a draw. Turn 2 that Lightning came down & I lost 6 war machines, and 2 Engineers. If we were going by VP he would have massacred me. We both had a character in contact with the portal when the game ended turn 4.
I've seen a list around here somewhere with bout 250 Halberdiers. Add a unit of GS, some cannons, 2 AL, a WP or two, a Lv4. That might be the best list we can hope for.

[Delthos]

Too bad not everyone has 250 halberdiers to field! I'll compromise to the 53 that I have and reduce the number of Warmachines and independent characters I field, to a number that won't cripple me in the 3rd scenario when lightening strikes. I'm not going sans warmachines, but I'm thinking three is all I'll field. I'm still torn as to what exactly I will field though.

I've got a feeling that the 3rd scenario is going to end up with tons of draws. The part about requiring only a single character to be in control in order for there to be a winner combined with the very likely 4 turns the game will last all but ensures it. It's odd as if it goes past four turns there's a good chance it will actually go 7 rounds, if there is enough time anyway.

[astorre]

Contrary to what I've said elsewhere a War Altar might be a good idea. It will only take D3 wounds that will get randomized. I would still take 2 or 3 cannons off tops, maybe a Rocket Battery or two.
I see a lot of the 3rd scenario ending up as draws as well. If the portal is impassible terrain (which we played it as) it is way too hard to manouver and fight around it and keep a character in base contact with it.
Or just wait til turn four to run somebody up on it. Thats what my buddy did.

[Delthos]

The Tsunami result could screw that tactic. Say you are 5" away and the Tsunami hits, now you can only march 4".  Plus you don't know until the turn is over to find out if there will be another turn.

[Odominus]

I was thinking about the 2nd scenario from the first round: Blood Soaked Choppa. It states that it gives one core unit +1 St and +1 attack. Does this effect everything in the unit? Like a unit of halberds that includes a mage, AL, and BSB? Would all the characters get this bonus? What about something like a Screaming Bell (unique mount)? Would the Bell, the Rat Ogre crew, and Seer each get the bonus as they are indeed each part of the unit?  Kroxigors in skink units? Etc.

Your thoughts?

[Joelatron]

I read it as 1 core unit has +1 strength and attack on their profile = a W.priest in the unit would be unaffected

[Odominus]

I read it as 1 core unit has +1 strength and attack on their profile = a W.priest in the unit would be unaffected

Only thing on that is the WP is officially, RAW, part of the unit. Spells and such that effect units also affect characters unless otherwise specified. The scenario just says "gives a core unit the bonus." 

[Delthos]

My thoughts are this. The scenario says "While the blood soaked choppa is in the unit’s possession that unit receives +1 Strength and +1 attack." When a character joins a unit, he typically becomes a member of the unit. In that regard, it is like a spell in that everything in the unit gains the bonus. Yeah that could make for a very powerful unit with a bunch of characters in it, but I don't know. Of course there are some things that don't follow this though, but they are explicity stated, like the Warrior Priest hatred specifically not working on characters. It's probably something you should bring up with the event organizers where ever you are playing in the tournament, to rule on before the scenario is played. That way everyone is on the same sheet of music. I'm leaning toward it working on characters who join the unit though.

[Odominus]

Exactly. The AB specifically states that a WP's Righteous Fury does not affect characters.

[astorre]

Yes Im pretty sure that it would affect the characters in the unit. Its basically like giving your unit a magic standard, thats how I interpreted it.

[darkman889]

Concerning a 'Ard Boyz list, I'm planning on running a lvl 4 Life Mage; should I bother running a lvl 2, and what lore would be good for him?  Death for sniping?  Fire for skirmisher shooting?  Metal so I can throw six dice at Steam Tank or Chaos Knights or anything with a nice armor save?  Or what about Shadow for those nice, cheap miasma spells?  If I bring one, I'll use the Rod of Power, if I bring both I'll use RoP and a dispel scroll. 

[Eighty]

light!

the right spells turn your halberds into chaos warrior imitations.

[Noght]

I plan on taking a Level 2 Celestial Wizard.  The plan is to use the signature hex to stiffen up the WS 4 Army (Knights, Greatswords, and Swordsmen), most foes will need 4+ to hit and Iceshard makes it 5+ (think Reverse Pha, but guarenteed to get the spell).  I think that the Field will be stacked with large units, so maybe Comet/Chain Lightning will do well.  What about Wind Blast for the 3rd Scenerio to move his hero away from the portal?

Noght

[Delthos]

Wind Blast would be a nice way to pull out a last minute win in the third scenario. The only problem with a level 2 is that you can't count on getting either Wind Blast or the Comet.

[darkman889]

Well, I'll be bring a War Altar, do I need to bring a lvl 2 with light? 

If i have a lvl 4 AND a War Altar, do I need a lvl 2?  Gah...list building is a pain...

[Eighty]

i personally do take one, but i love the magic phase.
reading some of the other scenario's it might not be best to have 2 wizards though. hell theres one scenario that gives you points if you have a wizard survive the game!

[Noght]

One of the potential results from the Chaos Portal is an automatic +1 Power and +1 Dispel for your Wizards so having a level 1 or 2 can add a benefit.

Noght

[Noght]

Played the 2nd 'Ard Boyz Scenario, Blood Soaked Choppa, versus Orcs and Goblins.  Put the Choppa on a unit of 50 Swordsmen and I have 2 words for ya:  AWE SOME!.

39 WS 4, STR 4, I4 re-rollable attacks (had the Lector in the unit) vs a Giant Block of Black Orcs w/Warlord, tore him up 2x.  He ran after the first combat so I charged him a second time, broke him a second time and ran him off the board.

On the other side:  Mangler Squigs are a must shoot priority target, in front of Doom Divers, wow they dish out the pain.  And don't declare charges if there is a chance that Fanatics appear, landing on 3 of them with my Flagellants is all kinds of bad!

Noght

[Odominus]

39 WS 4, STR 4, I4 re-rollable attacks (had the Lector in the unit) vs a Giant Block of Black Orcs w/Warlord, tore him up 2x.  He ran after the first combat so I charged him a second time, broke him a second time and ran him off the board.

That's one happy Arch Lector...3 attacks at st5 (st7 with great weapon)!!

I think sticking the Choppa with the Flaggies would be devastating as well lol..

[Delthos]

I was just looking at the 'Ard Boys scenarios a little a closer and I previously completely overlooked the fact that scenario #1 and #2 are meeting engagements. That makes lots of war machines an even bigger liability as you may not even have them all on the table the first turn of the game, meaning you will have one less turn to use any that are in reserve. Of course in scenario #3, any war machines in reserve are actually protected from a 1st turn Lightning Storm result as the random events happen at the start of each game turn, before any reserves are brought on the table. That's still one less turn they'll be on the table firing in the 1st turn, which is pretty important as war machines really need to be firing in the first two or three turns to be effective.

[Noght]

'Ard Boyz scenario 1 and 3 are Meeting Engagement, scenario 2 is Battleline.

Noght

[sammay23]

Regarding wizard choices, I like to take a lvl2 and lvl4, both life. It virtually guarantees that my lvl 4 will have the spells I want, if I roll first for my lvl2. Unless the lvl2 rolls both flesh to stone and throne of vines (in which case, I cannot switch both for the signature spell), my lvl4 is almost guaranteed to have those two plus regen. For a list that definitely benefits from those buffs (almost requires them), I like the predictability of knowing I'll have em.