Topic: With whom would Brettonia side?

[Frontier]

I have a rather small gaming group,  and as such, there are no more Empire players other than me.  However, my Brettonian friend has volunteered for the campaing and would like to join with the Middenlander side.

Is the WOS staff okay with this?  Would they allow Brettonia to side with Middenland?  How about Elves, who would they support?

Thanks for your missives.

"May Talabecland win" -Master Miguel of the Altdorf Marines

[Carlo Chaimo]

Any of the factions will work for Bretonnia, and while none of the factions are particularly fluffy, nor are any of the factions a particular stretch. I, Carlo Chaimo, am playing a Bretonnian army in this campaign, and I will be raising my lance for the Lady of Talabecland. So you see that there are other races such as myself involved. But if your friend wishes to fight for Middenland, then this is quite fluffy and tell him to sign up for them, since the wolf scorns missile weapons and is much more noble than the cowardly Stirlander.

Oh, and welcome aboard to you!

[Demonslayer]

Some Bretonnians seem to be joining the Otillian Empress for handing out ribbons. All that wish to aid a nation in fighting off those that try to conquer a land that is not theirs, all those that are opposed to the innocent being killed, should join either Stirland or Middenland.

[HoS]

You always say the same thing, Demonslayer!! Look at Carlo Chaimo, he is a Talabeclander, yet is advising someone to join Middenland!! You are starting to sound like a broken record player!!(Or Dr.Weird)

Fight for whoever you want, but I think Elves would fight for Stirland, personally. It kinda fits in, what with their superb use of combined arms, and their friendshp with the Sigmarite Empire(Magnus the Pious), I think they were born to fight alongside the Skull motiff of Stirland.

[rufus sparkfire]

Magnus the Pious

...hasn't been born yet.


The High Elves support the Marienburg Emperor.

[Demonslayer]

Next time read a message before answering to it, helblaster. I'm advizing Bretonnian players to join either Stirland or Middenland, so why you are saying I should take Chaimo as example is beyond me...
And I keep repeating myself because different people ask the same thing: why is any of the factions better than the other? The facts haven't changed since the first time it was asked, and therefore I will not state anything differently as with the first time it was asked.
If High Elves are with the mercenary armies of Marienburg, then they're probably with the most wealthy faction- meaning Middenland.

[rufus sparkfire]

If High Elves are with the mercenary armies of Marienburg, then they're probably with the most wealthy faction- meaning Middenland.

Uh, no. Marienburg is a claimant to the Imperial throne, and thus the enemy of Middenland (and Talabecland, and Stirland).

They have no involvement in this campaign.

[Carlo Chaimo]

Next time read a message before answering to it, helblaster. I'm advizing Bretonnian players to join either Stirland or Middenland, so why you are saying I should take Chaimo as example is beyond me...

He is saying that I should be taken as an example because apparently I can speak with a modicum of impartiality. You are constantly advising individuals to join Middenland or Stirland, to the exclusion of Talabecland, when it is well known that your two factions make no secret of the fact that you have a pact. This is hardly impartiality when an individual comes with an impartial question. Does Talabecland have a pact with Middenland? No, and yet I as a Talabecland partisan am able to recommend that faction. Whoopdee doo, Demonslayer can recommend his ally, that is real big of him. For the benefit of this campaign I at least am big enough to recommend my enemy when fitting.

In any case, as a Bretonnian or a High Elf join whomever, it is also just as fluffy, not fluffy, whatever.

[Demonslayer]

In case you haven't noticed, Chaimo, Middenland and Stirland do NOT have a pact. Any Middenlander coming Stirland's way with hostile intentions will be dealt with the same way as any Talabeclander, namely by being destroyed. It is merely that SOME Stirlanders and SOME Middenlanders have seen that they don't have as much reason to oppose one another than as to oppose Talabecland.
The campaign team has decreed that Middenland and Stirland are enemies, and as such, I will see Middenland as an enemy. However I personally feel that Middenland and Stirland could achieve an agreement, while I don't see Stirland and Talabecland achieving that kind of agreement.
So far three or four forum members of Stirland and Middenland are not as agressive towards each other than as towards Talabecland. That does not mean Middenland is suddenly no longer considered an enemy. There are more than enough Middenland forum members who feel Stirland should be brought down.
So if I advise people to join Middenland, I am certainly NOT advising them to join my ally. I advise them to join one of the parties I partially agree with.

@Rufus: Though I read somewhere that Marienburg wasn't as interested in the crown as in making a good profit. Probably misread or misinterpreted it. Sorry ...

[Carlo Chaimo]

So if I advise people to join Middenland, I am certainly NOT advising them to join my ally. I advise them to join one of the parties I partially agree with.

Sophistry. You should get a job writing spin for the GOP or the DNC. Please, you guys are positively buddy buddy with one another. "... to join one of the parties I partially agree with": So there are multiple parties that you partially agree with? No! There is just ONE other than your own, and you advise people to join that party in addition to your own. Last time I checked there are only three parties in this contest: your own, one that you attack habitually, and another that you have a pact with.

You have a difficult time separating campaign mechanics from campaign fluff. If you look through the vocabulary and grammer of Frontier's post you will see that he is clearly asking a mechanics question, and not a fluff question. I gave him a proper answer, you did not. I am right, you are wrong. If you are looking merely to bash Talabecland then create your own thread for that.

Now, to keep this thread on track, yes, Bretonnians can join any faction, and Middenland is quite fluffy.

[Demonslayer]

The question asked in the first place was if Bretonnians were allowed to join Middenland, and yes, they are. And if you do not want me to bash Talabecland, then I suggest you stop trashing Stirland, as you did in your first post. You were the one saying he shouldn't join Stirland since it would be un-fluffy, yet when I retaliate you start screaming "not fair! Stay on-topic!".
You have a great way of argumenting your point of view, by the way. After I give multiple arguments saying Stirland and Middenland do NOT have a pact, you just say "yes you do". Back up what you're saying with arguments, or don't say anything at all.
I am partially agreed with Middenland and partially opposed to them. I agree with them much more than I agree with Talabecland. I do NOT agree with them fully. Saying Stirland and Middenland have a pact is ridiculous. At the very most it can be said that I, jmanwarhammer, and two or three other forum members have stated that they are more opposed towards Talabecland than towards each other. That does NOT classify as a pact. That does NOT mean Frontier's friend has the same opinion as jmanwarhammer, for example. So it does NOT mean that I only advise people to join my allies. And next time you wish to prove me wrong, do more than just say "he's wrong! he's not on-topic!". Kind of lame arguments, that do not prove your point at all.

[Carlo Chaimo]

You have a great way of argumenting your point of view, by the way. After I give multiple arguments saying Stirland and Middenland do NOT have a pact, you just say "yes you do". Back up what you're saying with arguments, or don't say anything at all.
I am partially agreed with Middenland and partially opposed to them. I agree with them much more than I agree with Talabecland. I do NOT agree with them fully. Saying Stirland and Middenland have a pact is ridiculous. At the very most it can be said that I, jmanwarhammer, and two or three other forum members have stated that they are more opposed towards Talabecland than towards each other. That does NOT classify as a pact.

Yes it does. I don't know what kind of arguments you want from me here. In the "About dang time" thread you state:

"Merely responding to a "threat", jman, merely responding  . Don't come our way, and you won't crash against our power..."

Sounds like a pact to me. Should we get into the semiotics of the word "pact"? We can read a little Roland Barthes or Derrida and then discuss it? If I, Carlo Chaimo, promise not to attack Stirland, then does that mean that you Demonslayer will not attack Talabecland? We have a deal then? A pact, entente, compromise... same thing.

Every time you say "we don't have a pact" you always end up saying something like "at the very most some of us...", well, that sounds like an agreement to me, and that is one of the definitions of a pact, so I fail to see why you are finding my arguments unpersuasive. That is the definition of the word, what more do you want from me?

Hellblaster and I are not saying that all Mid's and Stir's have a pact, mostly we are just criticizing you personally. We are tired of your statements like this from the "Kislev-the real power..." thread:

Hey, I'm ready for any "banter" as soon as someone starts defending Talabecland again...
And of course, Kislev is an invaluable part of the Middenland-Kislev alliance. We shall see how great once the bloody campaign actually starts..... It's just that so far I've only had dealings with Middenlanders. However, if the Kislevites wish to bring cold death to the Talabeclanders, they are most welcome to do so... At least I think it is safe to assume they are actually fighting Talabecland...?"

It gets kind of annoying, knowing that everytime someone posts something pro-Talabecland we are going to get attacked by you and your "not a pact" of Stirlanders and Middenlanders. You can say that your group is not a pact, but that does not make it any less annoying when any banter by one of us is suddenly jumped on by three or four of you guys, and then the mod's have to step in as with the "a crusade of penance" thread because even they are tired of the "bash Talabecland" threads. Your majority, between Stirland and Middenland, is in the neighborhood of 4 or 5 to one. Many of the people who joined Talabecland (like me) joined precisely because they are the under-dog and want this to be a fun campaign. It is not very fun when a gang of people jumps on every single one of your posts. Do you like that word better than pact? Shall we use the word gang instead?

And yes, I bashed Stirland first. Are you really worried about a thread turning into a "bash Stirland" thread? I think we might have the numbers if all of Stirland and half of Middenland fell asleep. Is that your fault? No. But you are not helping, and this is supposed to be fun.

[Joey]

I agree wholeheartedly, I joined Talabecland for many of the same reasons Carlo did, a campaign is supposed to be fun and what fun is it when the Talabeclanders can't even try to post something persuasive to get other members to join us without you Demonslayer trashing us at every turn.  

It is obvious that you support middelanders more than talabeclanders, your conversations with other middelanders inclunding jman could be interpreted as friendly banter, is it that big of a stretch that Carlo and many other Talabeclanders, including myself, think that you have a pact.

You Demonslayer constantly ignore facts in the newsletters about Stirland even the mods have called you on this in the crusade of pennace thread.  The mods have done a great job making each side have its own flaws yet you constantly ignore them.  I have lost count of how many times you claim Stirland did not start the war, when it has been said numerous times.  Let me provide some facts for you.

@Warpghost: You have made the right choice by opposing Talabecland, welcome aboard the anti-T-team... Hope to have you on the side of the Stirlanders soon now...

hmmm doesn't sound like you are marching war drums towards Middeland

If you haven't signed up yet, please consider who is striving for peace and a stable, unified Empire (namely Stirland), and who actually started this war (Talabecland), killing the innocent only because they believe in a different God. How is it honourable to aid such tyrants?

Yet it is well documented that Sigmarites have been murdering Ottilians for the exact same reason, seems like the pot is calling the kettle black.

This last quote if from Kernschatten

Actually, Stirland started this war. The Empress has done nothing except provide aid to her neighbor against an armed incursion by a foreign power.

and yet one more

It is does not matter who sent the first troops anywhere. What matters is who disrupted the status quo and precipitated the war. Stirland (with the Church of Sigmar) is the agressor in this matter, and the campaign background supports this. Besides, the League of Ostermark has been a protectorate of Talbecland for almost one hundred years, it is only natural for Ostermark to ask Talabecland for military assistance to resist the military aggression of Stirland.

Demonslayer I am glad that you support Stirland I am glad that you are getting into the campaign but please especially in the matters that are regarding new members in which side to join, please use facts to persuade them not propaganda.  

In short Demonslayer your posts are begining to suck the fun out of this campaign for some of the members.  It is fine that you hate Talabeclanders but trying to convince everyone else the same is going to make for a real short, unbalanced and miserable campaign for many members.  Consider this in the future.

[Demonslayer]

Very well then, if you can't take it anymore, then I'll keep quiet until the next time someone banters about Stirland. I'll no longer involve myself in whatever the Talabeclanders or Middenlanders say about themselves, Kislevites, or each other.
However, just for the sake of argument (and because I hate being told to shut up):

I make no secret of it that I hate Talabecland more than Middenland. Anyone who hasn't deducted this from my posts should really start worrying about their own sanity. And because of that fact, I have no desire to attack Middenland, UNLESS they attack us. However that does NOT say anything about all the other forum members that have joined Stirland, so saying there is a pact between two factions is a bit exaggerrated. Just because two people from different factions can understand each other's point of view does not change the fact that everybody else in those two factions want to bloody massacre each other... So there is no pact. A pact is an agreement between two factions to not attack one another. It is not an agreement between two or three people to go easy on one another...

One last remark, though. The stuff about me "sucking the fun out of the campaign", and all the personal remarks are starting to get me angry. All throughout the campaign I said a lot of nasty things about the Talabeclanders. However, they were all directed towards the Talabeclanders, NOT the people that play for Talabecland. Everything I said was in style with the campaign, it was logical, and it was based on the campaign fluff.
I had to take lots of personal remarks all over the forum, not just about the campaign, but other things as well. And I am getting sick of it. I have never made any personal remarks towards anyone about the campaign, and have heard more than enough remarks directed towards me personally. And I am taking the fun out of this campaign?
Chaimo and Helblaster, you two have almost brought me to the point where I'm going to resign from playing in this campaign. You're really making it less fun for me to participate, with those idiotic, senseless personal remarks, starting the same argument over and over again, and just posting something based on how you FEEL about the campaign, not about anything written by the campaign team, in most of the threads where a discussion has started. And now I'm being told I am the one taking the fun out of the campaign...
Do as you will, banter all you will. I simply don't care anymore. I though defending the faction I chose was allowed, but clearly some little infants can't take it anymore. Have it your way.

[rufus sparkfire]

Uh, OK. I think people need to get a little perspective. This is just a game, so there's no reason for anyone to get upset.

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be fun.

Hopefully we'll kick off soon and you can all get down to killing each other like civilised people.

[Demonslayer]

I can hardly wait... IF Chaimo and Helblaster still allow me to participate, that is ...

[Joey]

I hope you realized that my post wasn't a personal attack, I think I can speak for Carlo and Helblaster, that we very much want you in the campaign.  I for one am glad that you are extremly pro-stirland.  Like I said just try and keep in mind, that the Talabeclanders are outnumbered at least 5 to 1, So maybe an ally or two wouldn't hurt Stirlands cause but make the campaign more interesting for everyone.

I am fine with you finding arguements with someones post but please please please pull your ideas, from the newsletters or other pieces of fluff instead of your own opinion.

I will see you on the battlefield  

[Demonslayer]

"In short Demonslayer your posts are begining to suck the fun out of this campaign for some of the members."

Sounds like a personal attack towards me. But now I'm probably giving you too much of an argument, and I should stop doing so before it leads to me sucking the fun out of your membership on this forum.... or whatever .
And for as far as I've noticed, Chaimo and Helblaster are the ones not using any arguments based on campaign fluff. Not me. But now I'm probably sucking the fun out of their campaign too ...

[rufus sparkfire]

How about you guys drop it now. It's getting very stale.


Look over there! It looks like an Otillian eating a Sigmarite baby!

[Demonslayer]

Nice one!  

[Carlo Chaimo]

I can hardly wait... IF Chaimo and Helblaster still allow me to participate, that is  ...

@Joey: Do you feel left out? Because I thought that your post was really right along the lines of mine.

Chaimo... with those idiotic, senseless personal remarks, starting the same argument over and over again, and just posting something based on how you FEEL about the campaign, not about anything written by the campaign team, in most of the threads where a discussion has started. And now I'm being told I am the one taking the fun out of the campaign...

Be fair Demonslayer, I assume that you are referring to the "A Crusade of Penance" thread, since that is the only thread which I have answered substantially on fluff, and you have to admit that there were people from all factions (notably one of the writers of the background) who found my remarks about Martin, the monkey and the baubles amusing and if you look really carefully through that thread you will even find that my first post way back on June 9th includes a written disclaimer saying that I am just pretending and that I don't want anyone to take any real offense.

I can't speak for Joey, but my attacks against you most certainly were personal, starting from the point that you ignored my disclaimer and used curse words in a response causing Kernshatten to rightfully threaten to lock the thread, and since then I have felt uncomfortable posting; however, I do not want to make you uncomfortable or want you to quit the campaign, so I apolozige for anything that I have said in this thread, and I will cease speaking against either you or the imaginary provinces of Middenland or Stirland from this moment forward. I didn't know that you actually hate Talabecland in real life, and since I find this kind of intolerance directed towards the unreal to be unimaginable and delightful, I therefore apologize. In all honesty, once this campaign is finished I will almost certainly barely be active, if at all, since I am only here for the campaign (and the burgeoning Lustria tactica thread which shouldn't step on your toes). In fact, for the end of July I will be busy in New Haven doing research at Beinecke and for the last three weeks of August I will be on vacation in Russia, so I won't be active much if at all (as I will be in far off Siberian places like Tyumen). So as far as I am concerned our tiss is done. This is more your home than mine, my apologies.

[rufus sparkfire]

Right, that's it.

Good night.