Topic: First Tournament

[koh68]

Hey everyone, first post, and first tournament. I'm playing with the idea for two different lists and would love for some input.

My first is:


Empire of Man [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man
===

++ Characters [662 pts] ++

General of the Empire [262 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Lance (if appropriately mounted)
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- Griffon
- The White Cloak

Wizard Lord [272 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- Empire Warhorse
- Armour of Tarnus
- Wizard's Familiar
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Daemonology

Captain of the Empire [128 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Demigryph

++ Core Units [523 pts] ++

4 Empire Knights [108 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Heavy armour
- Stubborn (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

4 Empire Knights [108 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Heavy armour
- Stubborn (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

9 State Troops [54 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
- Shields
- Detachment

5 Empire Archers [35 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Detachment

5 Empire Archers [35 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Detachment

21 Veteran State Troops [183 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Light armour
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

++ Special Units [420 pts] ++

2 Demigryph Knights [140 pts]
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour
- Demigryph Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

20 Empire Greatswords [280 pts]
- Great weapons
- Full plate armour
- Drilled
- Count's Champion (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

++ Rare Units [395 pts] ++

5 Flagellants [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Flails

5 Flagellants [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Flails

Steam Tank [265 pts]
- Steam Cannon
- Steam gun

---
Created with "Old World Builder"

[https://old-world-builder.com]

Run the greatswords with the Demi BSB and the 3x3 swordblock detachment as a durable and hurty mid-field control piece if my math is right they'd have a static +6 to combat res (+1 close order, +2 ranks + 1 standard, +1 close order detachment +2 detachment ranks)

Veteran State troops have the 2 archer blocks as a detachment

flagellants to flank charge

Stubborn Knights to flank charge and be a pain for opponent Calvary

Griffon General to tank
Stank to Stank


The other list i have been playing with is:

Empire of Man [1999 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Empire of Man
===

++ Characters [707 pts] ++

General of the Empire [262 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Lance (if appropriately mounted)
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- General
- Griffon
- The White Cloak

Wizard Lord [272 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- Empire Warhorse
- Armour of Tarnus
- Wizard's Familiar
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Daemonology

Captain of the Empire [128 pts]
- Hand weapon
- Full plate armour
- Shield
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Demigryph

Empire Engineer [45 pts]
- Hand weapon
- No armour

++ Core Units [523 pts] ++

4 Empire Knights [108 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Heavy armour
- Stubborn (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

4 Empire Knights [108 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Lances
- Shields
- Heavy armour
- Stubborn (0-1 unit per 1,000 points)
- Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

9 State Troops [54 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Light armour
- Shields
- Detachment

5 Empire Archers [35 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Detachment

5 Empire Archers [35 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Warbows
- Detachment

21 Veteran State Troops [183 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Halberds
- Light armour
- Sergeant (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

++ Special Units [519 pts] ++

2 Demigryph Knights [140 pts]
- Lances
- Shields
- Full plate armour
- Demigryph Preceptor (champion)
- Musician

18 Empire Greatswords [254 pts]
- Great weapons
- Full plate armour
- Drilled
- Count's Champion (champion)
- Standard bearer
- Musician

Great Cannon [125 pts]

++ Rare Units [250 pts] ++

5 Flagellants [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Flails

5 Flagellants [65 pts]
- Hand weapons
- Flails

Helblaster Volley Gun [120 pts]

Dropping the Stank and picking up a GC, a hellblaster and an engineer for a bit more ranged punch.

I'm wondering what all your opinions may be on this style of setup in a competitive environment, Tournament isn't till the second week of April so I have plenty of time to tweak and or add new stuff.

[Clymer]

These both look great. The one problem that I see is that it looks like you are planning to put your wizard into a cav unit, which will take him away from the infantry units he needs to be supporting.

My experience in this edition is that our knights are very good and move across the field fast, especially if they are winning combats and over-running/pursuing. I don't have specific suggestion to change in your list, but if you think about this problem and see it in some practice games, you'll get the idea and will come up with list changes to address it.

[koh68]

Thanks! and oh good point, the plan is to have the wizard move quickly but save some points, so horse over Pegasus!

[BallzDeep69]

"Run the greatswords with the Demi BSB and the 3x3 swordblock detachment as a durable and hurty mid-field control piece if my math is right they'd have a static +6 to combat res (+1 close order, +2 ranks + 1 standard, +1 close order detachment +2 detachment ranks)"

Hi, I'm looking through the book now trying to find the section regarding this math. I can't find anything saying a detachment can claim a rank bonus at 3 wide, or anything saying you can use both the rank bonus of the detachment and the main unit combined.

Are you able to let me know where to find these, only played 1 game so far so just looking to learn really!

Thanks!

[koh68]

just pulled it up, I was mistaken you are correct. I must have gotten a wire crossed somewhere.  well that changes some strategy

[Zygmund]

You've got an aggressive list and a more shooty list. Both look fine, as far as I can tell just from the lists.

About the detachment CR bonus:
If you can pull out a flank counter charge with the detachment, it will add +1 for the flank and take any enemy rank bonus away (if not Heavy Infantry). So yes, in a sense, the detachment can in some situations bring anything between +1 and comparable +3 to the CR.

But it will be news indeed if you can achieve a detachment flank charge in a tournament! 

-Zyg

[commandant]

I would replace the handweapon and shield with a halberd in the detachment.   That detachment of 9 should be considered extra attacks rather than a defensive resource.   If it gets flanks there won't be that many attacks aimed at it (maybe from only 2-4 models) and if it hits the front it is also likely there won't be that many attacks aimed at it because the parent will occupy most of the front.

[Athiuen]

Steam Tank is really good, so my vote is for the list which includes it.

[Gankom]

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[Skyros]

I second the steamtank list. I think both these lists are pretty good, with a focus on the parts of the empire army that are good or at least decent, minimal investment in poor choices.

My 2k list is similar. I'd like to avoid taking state troops entirely, but I'm going to be taking a block of them, simply because I don't have enough knights not to

[GamesPoet]

I'm curious ... how many players in the tournament, is it being played straight from the rule book, how is it structured, and is it being held in the States, England, somewhere else in Europe, Australia, elsewhere?

[Warlord]

Both are solid lists, and similar to my first list at 2k.
Take the Steam Tank list, mainly because the Steam Tank demands attention from the enemy, and might leave your general alone to do his thing.

[koh68]

I'm curious ... how many players in the tournament, is it being played straight from the rule book, how is it structured, and is it being held in the States, England, somewhere else in Europe, Australia, elsewhere?

It will be an RTT, current registration has 11 players according to BCP. 3 rounds, 2000 points. No rule of three so list building straight from the book.
Paying Missions 1,2,5

[Zygmund]

How do you plan to fight shooty Elfs who will kill chaff units and avoid combat with the main units?

-Zyg

[The Peacemaker]

How do you plan to fight shooty Elfs who will kill chaff units and avoid combat with the main units?

-Zyg

Thats the fun part, you don't!

I don't think there is a way to beat shooty elves with empire unless you win the cannon/bolt thrower shoot off in the first 2 turns.

[Zygmund]

How do you plan to fight shooty Elfs who will kill chaff units and avoid combat with the main units?

-Zyg

Thats the fun part, you don't!

I don't think there is a way to beat shooty elves with empire unless you win the cannon/bolt thrower shoot off in the first 2 turns.

Damn!

I'm facing a shooty DE list this Friday, and a very experienced opponent too. Give me hope! 

(And I think you're quite right there. At least that has been my experience thus far. Won the shoot off once, with Dwarfs, and the game went very well from there. The other games, not so nice...)

-Zyg

[commandant]

A mortar or two could be your friend

[GamesPoet]

I'm curious ... how many players in the tournament, is it being played straight from the rule book, how is it structured, and is it being held in the States, England, somewhere else in Europe, Australia, elsewhere?

It will be an RTT, current registration has 11 players according to BCP. 3 rounds, 2000 points. No rule of three so list building straight from the book.
Paying Missions 1,2,5

RTT means?  And BCP?

[koh68]

I'm curious ... how many players in the tournament, is it being played straight from the rule book, how is it structured, and is it being held in the States, England, somewhere else in Europe, Australia, elsewhere?

It will be an RTT, current registration has 11 players according to BCP. 3 rounds, 2000 points. No rule of three so list building straight from the book.
Paying Missions 1,2,5

RTT means?  And BCP?

RTT stands for Rogue Trader Tournament. RTTs were the old GW supported format for small tournaments held in your local FLGS, and BCP is Best Coast Pairings, its just a website used for managing events

[Clymer]

How do you plan to fight shooty Elfs who will kill chaff units and avoid combat with the main units?

-Zyg

This is going to sound annoying, but I think pistoliers should do pretty good against shooty elves. They can’t get away from them, they shoot 360 and charge 360 with an enormous charge range and lots of S3 attacks.

[commandant]

How will shooty elves handle a load of bodies. Vast numbers of halberd wielding state troops could be good

[Clymer]

I think shooty elves just avoid blocks of infantry.

[commandant]

3 infantry blocks come in at 760 points and cover 6 feet of table edge. Avoiding them is difficult with any terrain

[Zygmund]

How do you plan to fight shooty Elfs who will kill chaff units and avoid combat with the main units?

-Zyg

This is going to sound annoying, but I think pistoliers should do pretty good against shooty elves. They can’t get away from them, they shoot 360 and charge 360 with an enormous charge range and lots of S3 attacks.

Not at all annoying. I'd love to find a use for them!

Come to think of it, this might actually be a good spot to use Pistoliers. Just hope they stay alive if the Elf player gets the first turn. Then let them loose! 

3 infantry blocks come in at 760 points and cover 6 feet of table edge. Avoiding them is difficult with any terrain

However, stripping off detachments from afar and combo charging a chosen infantry block with two or even three units, striking first and killing loads, is quite doable. With strong magic and shooting, even one of the parent regiments can be eradicated or at least badly crippled from afar.

I think one of the blocks will come through victorious or never engaged, another will be engaged and held in place, and the third will be defeated. It's then the other units in the lists that decide how the game really goes.

-Zyg

[Dazgrim]

3 infantry blocks come in at 760 points and cover 6 feet of table edge. Avoiding them is difficult with any terrain

At that point you're providing a lot of stuff for the elves to shoot as you attempt to manoeuvre your huge blocks across the table.