Tactical Decision Game 1: Empire versus the Ogrebus
In the military, they run Tactical Decision Games (TDGs) to test operators and intel personnel on warfighting strategy, tactics, and planning. There are usually no “right” or “wrong” answers, just different ways of applying military principles to solve problems and make decisions. Since we have been getting very little participation in the child forum The Tactica Board (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?board=41.0) on expanding Empire tactics and “tricks of the trade,” I decided to start a weekly TDG thread here in the Elector’s Forum to get Empire Generals to think, discuss different strategies and tactics, and have fun in the process. I think TDGs can help fill the gap between posts on how to use our different units and Battle Reports which we can comment on/learn from but are already complete.
My first TDG is going to run for several weeks with different installments over time in critical decision points of an Empire game fought versus an Ogre army using a “Deathstar Ogrebus” as its backbone. The Ogre list I am using I pulled from the Ogre Stronghold forum created by one of our own members, Rothgar13. As many of you probably know, he is a regular forum contributor on numerous Warhammer forums and is an experienced General with several different armies.
My plan is to offer several different alternatives to our forum members on what decisions we should make at various points in the battle. Based upon the feedback I get, I plan to go with “the majority rules,” so if you have an opinion please give it so we can give his Ogrebus the best we got! There is no guarantee that Empire is going to “win” this TDG…his list is nasty and will not be easy to take down!
The list I decided to use was the one I created using my Infantry-Based List Building techniques outlined in the Tacticas for W-E: Building Balanced Lists & War Preparation (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43353.msg727230#msg727230) thread. In short- the list (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43353.msg730113#msg730113) is built around Strength in Arms & Shields in Support, which means my troops sport high Strength and all the support in the list is build around defense and keeping the troops alive.
The Good Guys: Strength in Arms, Shields in Support
49 Halberdiers FC
Arch Lector (Gen) GW, AoMI, Dragonbane Gem, Crown of Command
5 Archer Detachment
33 Greatswords FC, Razor Banner
Warrior Priest Dragonhelm
Captain (BSB) Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone, Ironcurse Icon
15 Halberdier Detachment
5 Archer Detachment
10 Archers Musician, Standard Bearer
Battle Wizard Lord Lvl 4 Life, Dispel Scroll
6 Inner Circle Knights FC, Lances, Banner of Swiftness
4 Demigryph Knights FC, Lances, Steel Standard
Luminark
Steam Tank
My Spells: Life- Flesh to Stone, Shield of Thorns, Regrowth, The Dwellers Below
The Bad Guys: Rothgar’s Ogrebus
12 Ironguts Standard Bearer, Bellower
Tyrant (Gen) Biting Blade, Armour of Destiny, Greedy Fist
Bruiser (BSB) Rune Maw Standard
Bruiser Warrior Bane, Talisman of Preservation
Firebelly Lvl 2 Fire Mage, Dispel Scroll, Ironcurse Icon
4 Ogre Mournfang Cavalry Standard Bearer, Bellower, Dragonhide Banner
6 Leadbelchers Bellower
2x 11 Gnoblars Gnoblar Trappers
2x Ironblasters
2x Sabretusks
His spells: Fire- Fireball, Fulminating Flame Cage
Terrain & Scenario
I rolled randomly for terrain. Lots of terrain: two bodies of water, one building, a forest, a regular fence, Blessed Bulwark wall, Anvil of Vaul hill and Wizard’s Tower. I randomly determined locations and this is what is ended up looking like:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1Terrain.jpg)
I rolled the Meeting Engagement which should provide us with an interesting battle!
Deployment
The Ogres won the toss to choose sides. The fictitious Ogre General I am going to name “Bruiser” decided to line up on the side and angle that gave us the least amount of terrain to work with: the house. Since he chose the side, he had to deploy all his forces first. He got lucky and only had two units in Reserve: a Gnoblar unit and a Sabretusk.
He lined up his available forces as far forward as he could (except for an Ironblaster on the hill), with Mournfangs backed by Leadbelchers and a Sabretusk on the left flank and his Ogrebus, Gnoblars, and other Ironblaster on the right like so:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1Ogres.jpg)
His Ironblaster cannons are positioned nicely to throw cannonballs on each side of the board no matter where we decide to deploy. He has an 83% chance of getting the first turn, so he will be in our face quickly no matter what we do.
Empire Deployment Options:
I rolled for all our units and we only have one in Reserve- but it is the Greatswords and her detachments! Since we will be on the defensive early this shouldn’t impact us too bad- but it leads us to our first set of tactical decisions: how should we deploy our forces, based on the terrain, the enemy, and our reserves?
The Ironblaster’s range is a big consideration for our deployment, so I put red range rings around their potential first move distance and put a blue line on the forward edge of our deployment zone. Here is what it looks like:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1Analysis.jpg)
I did an initial analysis and came up with 3 basic deployment areas to center our defense in:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1Zones.jpg)
Zone 1 will center a defense around the house and will allow us to “hide” some assets on the backside.
Zone 2 allows us to use the house to cover one of our flanks and forces the Ogrebus to travel a long distance to get to us.
Zone 3 is a little more aggressive against his left flank- the Greatswords could pop in at any point along the long edge, forcing him to keep his Mournfangs positioned to respect their entrance. His Ogrebus would have to maneuver quite a distance to get to the meat of our defense.
Zone 1:
Here is the deployment I considered for Deployment Zone 1:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1A.jpg)
I put our cavalry on the far left flank to threaten the Ironblaster over there and harass/delay his Ogrebus on its way to our defense.
The Halberds are going to sit in the house- which will protect them from a Mournfang charge and Ogre impact hits. They will get chewed up over time if assaulted by the Ogrebus but should last a few rounds while the rest of our forces harass.
The Luminark is hidden behind the house safe for a little while from cannon fire, while the STank is positioned to fire on the Ironblaster or Ogrebus, depending on how Bruiser moves them.
Key Pros:
--the STank will not have to face multiple cannon shots in the first turn
--the Leadbelchers don’t have any early targets
--the Greatswords should be able to face the Mournfangs and chew them up a bit
Key Cons:
--He will be able to move his forces and converge on our defense at about the same time
--If we are not careful, he could isolate and kill our mobile resources, avoid the heart of our defense, and win by VPs/points denial
Zone 2:
Here is the deployment I considered for Deployment Zone 2:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1B.jpg)
I still like the Demigryphs on the left flank. They keep him from freely moving up his Ironblaster unless he wants to sacrifice it. If we roll the STank that way too, both of them can harass/delay his Ogrebus.
I kept the Inner Circle Knights and Archer detachments back to avoid the crazy range of his Mournfangs, but our diverters can easily move up depending on how he surges his forces towards our defense. The Luminark sits in the center- providing its Sigmar-blessed 6+ ward save to most of our defense, including the STank.
Key Pros:
--we have lots of distance and diverter/harassers options to slow him down
--the Inner Circle Knights are positioned nicely to get in the way of the Mournfangs and become sacrificial lambs
This would allow us plenty of follow-on charge options
Key Cons:
--the STank could take multiple cannon shots in the first turn (but with a 6+ Ward Save)
--the Luminark is not positioned to provide Ward Saves to our far right flank
Zone 3:
Here is the deployment I considered for Deployment Zone 3:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1C.jpg)
I am still sold on having the Demigryphs on the left flank to cause havoc. This may even force his Ogrebus to run towards our line on the left side of the Wizard’s Tower. Since two of his diverters/chaff are in reserve, they will have to come in on the long side of the board and play catch up. This means we will be able to dictate the flow of the battle early on.
I kept the Inner Circle Knights and Archer detachments back to avoid the crazy range of his Mournfangs, but our diverters can easily move up depending on how he surges his forces towards our defense. The Luminark sits in the center- providing its Sigmar-blessed 6+ ward save to most of our defense, including the STank.
Key Pros:
--he cannot be too aggressive with his Mournfangs early on…or we will have plenty of combo-charges available to take them down
--his Ogrebus has a long way to go…we could potentially divert it/slow it for most of the game
--the Luminark is positioned nicely in the center of our defense
Key Cons:
--the STank could take multiple cannon shots in the first turn (but with a 6+ Ward Save)
--if he is tactically patient on the first turn, he has the ability to focus fire on the Inner Circle Knights with two cannons and the Leadbelchers, potentially spelling their early demise
Input:
What I would like you to do is to post which Deployment option you like the best and why.
If you like an option without any modifications, just post the option and why you think it is better than the others.
If you like an option, but would change something, post the option and what you would change.
If you think you have a totally different deployment option in mind, explain it out. If it gets enough interest, I will create a deployment graph for it.
If you like what someone else posts (modifications, new ideas, whatever) then give them your vote.
At the end of a week, I am going to total up all the votes. The deployment with the most votes wins. I will use it and fast forward the battle (move the bad guys, roll dice, etc) to another decision point at which point I will create another thread and repeat the TDG process!
I look forward to your engagement and I hope we all learn a few things along the way.
:::cheers:::
HHG
Excellent input so far! :eusa_clap:
The Current Vote
Deployment Zone 1: 0
Deployment Zone 2: 1 (Graz)
Deployment Zone 3: 4 (LSP, E-Ulric, Biggley, Warwhore)
--Zone 3 Mod Commandant: 1 (Comm)
(switch Greatswords/Halbs, move tank to Halb flank, move Demis in front of house)
--Zone 3 “Alpha Mod” 3 (MrA, Soap, HHG)
(combined MrAbyssal and Soapstar’s comments together to form a Zone 3 variant)
Zone 3A- the “Alpha Mod”
Zone 3 and its mods appear to be the most popular at the moment. Several people mentioned moving the Demis by the house…and Soap made a pretty good argument about the STank facing off against the Bus so I combined them to create Zone 3A (hopefully an acceptable variant for both MrA and Soap because I tossed their votes in there).
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1CA.jpg)
The STank may still face 2 cannonballs (one on a long range angle shot) but all the mobile cav is positioned nicely to dart to either side of the tower, depending on need. Another reason I like moving the Demis over…when I was looking ahead at Bruiser’s options I figured out he can easily push his reserve Sabretusk to divert for the Ironblaster. The Demis in the center give us more flexibility. (This option currently has my vote.)
I really don’t see Bruiser making a run at the STank with the Gutbus. The odds of removing it in one turn are low and we would get a flank charge with the Demis. Bruiser has much better odds in taking off some wounds from the tank with cannonballs before he has to engage it.
--------Note-------
If you originally voted for a Deployment Zone with no mods, but now like someone else’s suggestion, just post again with a vote for them. If a modification gets three votes, I will create a graph for it. You can change your vote freely- when I close it out, I will just take your last post.
Ogre Analysis
I was going to wait to post on the capabilities of the Ogres in a later segment of the TDG when combat was looming, but it is worth talking about now. I am sure Rothgar could give a much better explanation- but hopefully he sees the thread and provides his valuable input…but here goes:
The "Ogrebus," "Gutstar," "Ogre Deathstar," etc, etc
The Ogrebus is the heart and soul of the list. With 4 characters, he can push the 3 combat-orientated characters up front to replace the command group. They all are T5 with 4 and 5 wounds…so until you kill them they provide a nasty front that is hard to kill. The Tyrant General has 5 attacks at Str 6 with his kit and a 4++ WS. The Bruiser has 4 attacks Str 5 with a 4++ WS. The BSB with the Rune Maw is somewhat naked with a magic banner with only a 5+ AS, but he also adds 4 Str 5 attacks in the mix. Even the Firebelly is T5, W4, 3A…and to add insult to injury has a Str 4 breath weapon he can pop into combat. The Ironguts backing them up swing last, but they are hitting on Str 6.
If that isn’t enough- if they get the charge they get 3 Str 5 impact hits, and if they roll a 10+ on the roll to charge, it multiples into D3 impact hits!
So- the long story short- you better be serious when you engage the Ogrebus because it is going to put out some pain.
The Rune Maw also allows the bus a 2+ attempt to re-direct a spell that targets it to another valid target in range. So as long as the BSB is alive, our Dwellers are not going to be much help in whittling down the Deathstar. Of course, we could remove nearby targets, but by that time the Deathstar will likely be in combat with our forces.
Mournfangs
The Mournfangs are also a serious threat. They get D3 impact hits. With the Dragonhide Banner they re-roll to hit, to wound, and armour saves of 1 in a turn they charge. Since they will probably be needing 2+ to wound, they will likely do max wounds. Unless you hit them with high Str attacks, they will also get to roll all failed 2+ armour saves. The banner also gives them a Str 3 breath weapon attack- any unit wounded by it gains Always Strikes Last until the end of their next turn! If we can manage it, we really need to charge the Mournfangs and not get charged by it.
Leadbelchers
The Leadbelchers get D6 Str 4 shots per model at a 24” range. Unfortunately they don’t suffer penalties for moving or multiple shots…so they are way more accurate and deadly than our Pistoliers.
Gnoblars
Wimpy- but they have trappers in them…so they count as Dangerous terrain for anyone charging them- which would be ugly for any large block of troops.
Ironblasters
The Ironblasters are no joke either. Besides the crazy cannon they have (which gets multiple bounce rolls), it can use the grapeshot at Str 10! If we get close to an Ironblaster, we could be facing an artillery dice worth of Str 10 attacks. Think of it as a one-barrel HBVG at Str 10. Not sure if our Demis or ICK will live through that.
A Few Comments
Yes, we are “outgunned” in this one. I purposely chose a more combat-orientated list to work through and analyze how we can go toe-to-toe with other combat nasty armies. We all know how to use a cannon and HBVG…this will force us as a group to use tactics and maneuver with an infantry-based list.
Plus, as it so happens in this scenario against this list, Bruiser could easily pop two of our Warmachines on Turn 1 and we would be in a 200+ deficit from the start. The STank should live longer than that (hope I don’t jinx it now…)
Anyway, I am motivated by the feedback. Keep it coming!
:::cheers:::
HHG