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Author Topic: Statetroops Suggestions  (Read 13623 times)

Offline GambitGriffin

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Statetroops Suggestions
« on: May 28, 2009, 05:12:09 PM »
Hello! Im a long time lurker with few posts but I thought it was finally time to show my imperial courage and share my ideas/thoughts on the next armybook. So here we go (hold breath)…

All core state troops drop 1 point.
Halberdiers get heavyarmor option +1 point and armor piercing.

All state troops (including greatswords) get the “step over-the-fallen-guy” rule, which means they would always strike back with full numbers if they are attacked from the front.

Also add pikes – Michaels W rules are simple and good – “Four ranks, counts as a Defended Obstacle”. Lightarmor only, probably 8 points or something close to that.

I think all state troops would benefit from “step over-the-fallen-guy” rules, specially against elves!! ::heretic:: ::heretic::

So what do you guys think?

Offline Davido

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 04:11:48 AM »
give handgunners the ability to fire in two ranks and use them as ranked up infantry.
Yay my rocket battery finally killed something.What do you mean those are my halberdiers.

Offline Boldrick

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2009, 12:18:05 PM »
Hello! Im a long time lurker with few posts but I thought it was finally time to show my imperial courage and share my ideas/thoughts on the next armybook. So here we go (hold breath)…

All core state troops drop 1 point.
Halberdiers get heavyarmor option +1 point and armor piercing.

All state troops (including greatswords) get the “step over-the-fallen-guy” rule, which means they would always strike back with full numbers if they are attacked from the front.

Also add pikes – Michaels W rules are simple and good – “Four ranks, counts as a Defended Obstacle”. Lightarmor only, probably 8 points or something close to that.

I think all state troops would benefit from “step over-the-fallen-guy” rules, specially against elves!! ::heretic:: ::heretic::

So what do you guys think?
I believe the most importand thing to do is give us the step over-the-fallen-guy rule.i think it is a brilliant idea
And of course make haberdiers not suck :icon_evil:

Offline Eisenherz

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 01:50:17 AM »
But why should Empire have such a rule as opposed to any other army? Especially troops with higher I (Elves, Skaven) would be quicker to close their ranks and higher Ld troops (dwarves etc) more determined.

Maybe we could rather pimp the unit champion a bit to strengthen the front rank? I could imagine an option for a GW (handgunner champs can have special weapon choices as well), perhaps even heavy armor option and/or WS+1.
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Offline florian.schwaerzel

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2009, 04:58:44 PM »
I could imagine an option for a GW (handgunner champs can have special weapon choices as well), perhaps even heavy armor option and/or WS+1.

RE: Handgunner Champion. I would like him to have the option for a pistol combined with any of his weapon options. In CC this counts as a second handweapon, and when being charged, the whole unit can stand and shoot at close range, because the champion tells them when to fire their volley.

I think this would improve a handgunner regiment a lot without being overpowered. 

Offline Obi

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 05:53:18 PM »
Well, I don't mind the one shot less regularly thing, opposed to the long range S&S. Plus, you know get 2 shots in S&S.
But why should Empire have such a rule as opposed to any other army? Especially troops with higher I (Elves, Skaven) would be quicker to close their ranks and higher Ld troops (dwarves etc) more determined.
Because we actually have a professional army.
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Offline t12161991

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 06:37:04 PM »
I would consider anyone who worked at a given profession for umpteen hundreds or thousands of years to be a professional...
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Offline GambitGriffin

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2009, 06:39:59 PM »
I think it could work well for dwarves as well and the elves got the asf.

Offline kingfisher

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 05:37:35 PM »
I think that we should be a loud to have a regiment of rifles and repeater handgunner  as one unit instead  of just one as a champion because I believe that some empire states like Hochland would have a unit of  Hochland long rifles as a regiment. BUT what I have found making my own units that I can't use them because of the rules but it ok for GW to use a unit like repeater handguners in a campaign drum of war that appear in white dwarf. so why can't we use?

Offline kk14

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2009, 12:17:47 PM »
I think a heavy armour solution would fix halberdiers.
Some professional soldier rule for state troops would also be nice, but I think it shouldn't be killy. Empire troops aren't IME designed to kill things awfully well.
How about: allowed to switch weapons at the beginning of each Empire combat phase? you could charge with your halberds, and if the fight turned into a grind, switch to sword and shield (heavy armour and sword & shield would be too much, though).

Dropping by another point? I don't think that's warranted. Perhaps only for detachments.
Something along the lines of: cheap support: a detachment costs -1/model if it is the same kind of troop as its parent? If it isn't?
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Offline Route1

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009, 05:06:34 AM »
I'm surprised that the empire doesn't have any sort of grenadier troops. Ones that carry pistols maybe, and can throw iron grenades.

Offline kk14

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 05:20:40 AM »
I think we're a few technology steps before Napoleonics, which is when IIRC (and Mathi can correct me here, I'm sure) those sort of grenades started to be used at all.
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Offline Route1

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 05:39:30 AM »
I think the first hand grenades were used in the year 1500. I have to do some research.

Offline Inarticulate

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 11:26:20 AM »
Hand grenades filled with naptha have been in use since like the han dynasty.

The reason Elves and Dwarfs don't have the step over the guy rule is because being so long-lived the elves are arrogant and unchanging and the Dwarfs are stubborn and unchanging. You have to try and think what it'd be like to live for so long and not just think that they would act exactly the same way a human with a normal lifetime would act but with more skillz.
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Offline Route1

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 07:38:46 PM »
That long ago, huh? Interesting.


I suppose grenadiers would be more of a "special" choice, now that I think of it.

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2009, 09:55:21 PM »
Or rare, I know in the movie 300 they gave the persians naptha grenades.

But then again I wasn't a big fan of 300.
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Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2009, 04:15:16 AM »
I'm surprised that the empire doesn't have any sort of grenadier troops. Ones that carry pistols maybe, and can throw iron grenades.

 this is actually one of my suggestions in the Engineer 8.0 thread wherein taking an engineer unlocks this unit for an army.  With appropriate unit size maximums etc.  This option would be open to any unit the player wanted to put it into, so an opponent could not know from where the grenades would come, or even IF there are any grenades.
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Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Elector Count10

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010, 09:38:59 PM »
Hello! I'm a long time lurker with few posts but I thought it was finally time to show my imperial courage and share my ideas/thoughts on the next armybook. So here we go (hold breath)…

All core state troops drop 1 point.
Halberds get heavyarmor option +1 point and armor piercing.

All state troops (including greatswords) get the step  rule, which means they would always strike back with full numbers if they are attacked from the front.

Also add pikes – Michael's W rules are simple and good – Four ranks, counts as a Defended Obstacle. Lightarmor only, probably 8 points or something close to that.

I think all state troops would benefit from step  rules, specially against elves!! ::heretic:: ::heretic::

So what do you guys think?

I'm new here, and no offence, but the general thought in the Fantasy world is if you have excellent weapons, then your armour (if any) is weak (except Knightly Orders, of course) or you have a weak weapon but good armour. For example.
Swordsmen are equipped with a sword (hand weapon) but have light armour, so they have 6+ save if unmodified. Then, as they have a hand weapon, in combat they get a +1 save, so a 5+ save. But, they also have Shields, so a 4+ save, whilst a Halberdier with a shield will still only have a 5+ save, and -2 modifying weapons mean no save at all, however a Swordsman would still get a 6+ save. As for the armour piercing thought, that is actually quite a sensible idea. About the drop 1 pt rule...hmmmm I don't know, because, as I've already stated, with good armour saves for Swordsmen, it feels like robbing people, because they have expensive pt armies, that might consist of 3 Core Units, 2 warmachines and lots of cavalry, whilst we have hundreds of footsloggers for almost nothing. Also, the step-by-step rule is kinda sneaky too. It changes the Empire's tactics from sneaky to downright cheating.

Offline Derek Contyre

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010, 11:20:24 PM »
I resent that. sneaky, bah.

We have tactics that may or may not be underhanded but cheaty and sneaky? leave that to the skaven
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Offline The Red Warden

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2010, 08:18:23 AM »
Not to be of offense to anyone but I think our State troops are already quite the deal.

Ok... I admit, halberds suck.. but everyones' halberds suck  :dry:

Our statelines really arn't bad for 5 pts, and you get a shield for another 1

You have detachments. Which kind of shows your professional forces, who else, as a core choice can charge another charging unit on the opposing turn?

Compare:

Empire Statetrooper for 6pts, fully loaded
1 spear/halberd/sword, LA, w/ shield with LD 7

Bretonnian Man at Arms for 5pts
Spear/Halberd, LA, w/ shield  with WS-2 LD-5

Skaven Clanrat
[/u]5 pts
spear , LA, with shield or 4.5pts for no spear with LD5

Plus Empire forces use detachments, I really don't see what the problem is with our State troops.. other then the models are quite horrid. :dry:

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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2010, 09:57:44 AM »
The Brets have an Ld of 8 usually as there are always some knights around

The Skaven have an Ld of 8 also usually as they usually deploy with at least three ranks also they have higher M and higher I.

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2010, 07:57:10 PM »
yup it's always the extra rules that change things, and the detachment rule just isn't par with the other armies special rules.  Maybe if it was reciprocal so parent units could charge or fire in support of their detachments it would be par to ASF or "we breed like rats"
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline Lecture

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2010, 12:13:54 AM »
Not to be of offense to anyone but I think our State troops are already quite the deal.

Ok... I admit, halberds suck.. but everyones' halberds suck  :dry:

Our statelines really arn't bad for 5 pts, and you get a shield for another 1

You have detachments. Which kind of shows your professional forces, who else, as a core choice can charge another charging unit on the opposing turn?

Compare:

Empire Statetrooper for 6pts, fully loaded
1 spear/halberd/sword, LA, w/ shield with LD 7

Bretonnian Man at Arms for 5pts
Spear/Halberd, LA, w/ shield  with WS-2 LD-5


and may use Ld of nonfleeing knights within 6 and u dont get VP for thair banner and no panic in knights when these lads run

Skaven Clanrat
[/u]5 pts
spear , LA, with shield or 4.5pts for no spear with LD5

and I 4 (or5) so they will wind combat and charge because of M5 and they have special rules too

Plus Empire forces use detachments, I really don't see what the problem is with our State troops.. other then the models are quite horrid. :dry:

-The Red Warden  :ph34r:

Offline der Hurenwiebel

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2010, 07:26:26 AM »
so. in essence what you are saying is that brettonian peasants are even better for their points cost than first it appeared.  VP: points denial to the enemy, and no cause of panic in friendly elite troops.  Besides the unlikely event that friendly knights will be in the near vicinity if they need to use a LD test, not a terribly common occourance from what I've seen in most brettonian play styles.   
"DEfighter wrote:
Hey, trolls stay the hell out, this is a serious thread. Empire are cheese. 2 steam tanks, a war altar and 4 cannons is so obviously overpowered. Anyone who thinks otherwise clearly hasn't had their dragon shot down on turn 1 yet."

oh really now.  LOL ROFLMAO oh the irony.

Offline commandant

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Re: Statetroops Suggestions
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2010, 09:53:39 AM »
I would really like something that showed the discipline and training of the Empire State Troops.   I have had an idea.   First remove the HW + S defense from the BRB and then give the Empire State troops a rule which states that they gain +1 AS in combat if using a shield because the man beside them is trained to protect them as well as himself with his shield