Topic: 8th edition on route.

[phillyt]

I'm around 20 or so 8th edition games.  I think Aldaris is on the right track.  We have dabbled in trying to change the who goes first rule to d6+1 for the first person to finish setting up, but that only helped armies with more drops to the point where it wasn't really fair (bait out all your opponents drops with comparative trash units then drop the real stuff).

I think more and more terrain is a must.  If the big things get a 2+ AS, it mitigates much of the problems.

[TexasYankee]

If you're group isn't seeing the issues where the person who gets first turn normally cripples the other, you are one lucky man!

We have a different definition on what an "Alpha Strike" is. To me, it's a term used in Warmahordes when the guy pops his feat, and then the game ends; he either kills your caster or puts himself in a spot where he will get killed next turn himself. Either way, game over, and all this "Page 5, play like you got a pair" bullshit is right out the window as everyone timidly moves their models about the board setting up for the perfect Alpha Strike; it's why I gave up on Warmahordes a long time ago. In general terms, it's when a model/unit uses it's BIG/ONE TIME ability to end a game.

The biggest issue I see with 40K 8th is vehicles. If you have nothing but infantry and the other guy has a good mix of vehicles and infantry, you are going to get shot off the board pretty quickly. I have a buddy who runs IG and has about 10 Chimeras, each with heavy bolter/multilas/heavy stubber. Combined with first-rank-fire, second-rank-fire, barley anything gets across the board, and that which does can easily chew up guardsmen, but take forever to kill even one Chimera. We're talking roughly 100 wounds at T7 with a 3+ save. Brutal.

[FR1DAY]

But ten chimeras so equipped is very nearly 1000 points. That is a big chunk of an army for max s6 one damage guns with only -1 save mod

[phillyt]

To field that many Chimera you're looking at a 2500 point game I assume.  Competitive lists would be deploying multiple Stormraven (3-5) which that guard army would struggle to deal with.  Thats what I mean by alpha strike.  That guard army is very unlikely to get first turn, so its facing 10 laser cannon and 10 multi-melta, plus 10 antivehicle missile launchers, not even speaking of the contents of those vehicles.  They will sweep in and destroy most of the anti-vehicle models on the table, then pick away at whats left while holding objectives with what is inside.  While that Chimera army doesn't have long range teeth (unless there are laser heavy weapon squads inside) it would weather an alpha strike pretty well.

Most armies can't weather the storm that an army built around that alpha strike can bring.

[TexasYankee]

That Chimera list was from a 2,000 point game, which is the standard we play. We don't have anyone in our gaming group that even owns 3-5 Storm Ravens. Most of our guys have infantry/bike heavy armies, and very few (if any) of us play tournaments with WAAC lists. I've only yet played three games and watched another three games, and that's what we've run into so far. One buddy wants to scrap his entire Death Guard and switch to Iron Warriors, so at least he'll have some decent shooting.

[FR1DAY]

Also once the guard are dead the chimeras will struggle to secure objectives because it is number of models near objective.

Philly - I think the new 'boots on the ground' rule has neutered the 5 stormraven list and made the three stormraven list a risky prospect.

[StealthKnightSteg]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/09/new-matched-play-rules-in-chapter-approved-aug-9gw-homepage-post-1/

Chapter approved will feature new way to determine who goes first.

[phillyt]

Also once the guard are dead the chimeras will struggle to secure objectives because it is number of models near objective.

Philly - I think the new 'boots on the ground' rule has neutered the 5 stormraven list and made the three stormraven list a risky prospect.

I think it changes the balance a bit, but there is nothing saying you can't just drop off a squad or combat squad something to get enough insurance on the ground to satisfy the rule.

[Darknight]

If you're group isn't seeing the issues where the person who gets first turn normally cripples the other, you are one lucky man!

Reports are coming that Chapter Approved 2017 gives a dice off for first turn with a +1 to the person who deployed first.

[FR1DAY]

Clever, I assume all twelve missions are exactly the same except with the first turn rule changed. Doesn't force anyone to do anything, but groups/TO can set the standard they play to.

[Aldaris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMu9G7Pyw8

 

[Finlay]

ad mech next codex!

[Artobans Ghost]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJMu9G7Pyw8

 

Very funny! 👆

[StealthKnightSteg]

We also heard what the next three codexes will be following the release of Death Guard and Adeptus Mechanicus in September. Before the end of November, xenos fans will be pleased to see some of the galaxy’s alien races get their codexes for the new edition with Codex: Craftworlds and Codex: Tyranids, while Codex: Astra Militarum lets fans of the Imperium’s vast human armies create thematic armies from their favourite Regiment.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/31/breaking-news-studio-preview-from-the-nova-open/

[phillyt]

Oh nice, Tyranids getting their book will be a big asset.

[Xathrodox86]

Guardsmen incoming! I'm so happy.

[StealthKnightSteg]

Some really awesome new tricks coming for Ad Mech with their Forge World abilities and traits

Forge World Mars:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/11/forge-world-focus-mars-sep-11gw-homepage-post-4/

Forge World Gaia:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/12/forge-world-focus-graia-sep-12gw-homepage-post-4/

[Finlay]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Primaris-Strike-Force-Patrol-Detachment-2017

me "hey I like a load of stuff GW have been doing lately"

gw "how about 62 quid for 11 plastic infantry"

me *angrily flips table*

[FR1DAY]

Thats a lot isnt it. £6.20 a model

[phillyt]

Ha!

Yeah, still not an inexpensive hobby in the grand scheme of things.

[Sig]

It's because of that character model. They're making characters ridiculously expensive whenever they make new models.

Good thing Primaris marines seem total rubbish I guess.

[phillyt]

On the table top they are fantastic.  Currently, most units can be countered with "I'll throw this helblaster squad at them."

[Sig]

Yeah, but that's only 5 of the 11 models in the box. And you can get them dirt cheap from the starter boxes.

Is there a point to primaris characters or their other units? They seem expensive and very bad.

[FR1DAY]

Reivers with bolter and grav chutes are good. But helped if you have a vanguard squad to charge near them to make the most of the shock grenades
Characters are just expensive and poorly equipped

[phillyt]

Yeah, but that's only 5 of the 11 models in the box. And you can get them dirt cheap from the starter boxes.

Is there a point to primaris characters or their other units? They seem expensive and very bad.

Right, but still primaris are a great buy outside of their limited transport options.