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Author Topic: Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2  (Read 7185 times)

Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« on: August 19, 2005, 10:44:51 AM »
I've been converting a lot in an attempt to create my Cult of Ulric army and here's my Seneschal of the white wolf. I've sculpted the wolfhead, yet something about it's position upon the shoulder is buging me, but I can't really find the problem so I was hoping that some of you might be able to help me.

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Offline Midaski

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2005, 10:53:43 AM »
Nice start.

My initial reaction - after seeing the back view is that the head is not in the right place relative to the rest of the skin/hide.

If that makes sense?

Models where it is pre sculpted have the front legs and claws present either side of the head.
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Offline Rorrak

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2005, 10:53:44 AM »
Firstly let me say that its a fine job you did on the head. I'm wanting to put wolf pelts on the back of my KoTWW's barding, I want to include heads on the pelts and didn't have the courage to try.  
 
You have inspired me to at least give it a try now.
 
Whats wrong with the picture I think has more to do with the setting of the head on the pelt than anything else.
 
Based on the shape of the pelt its where I would expect a leg.
 
Also I would expect the head to look more forward based on the way it would be pulled by the pelt.

Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2005, 11:02:32 AM »
Hmmm, you might have a point there yes, so what would you think would be best, cut of the head en reposition it below valten's hair (or give him an haircut) and sculpt a pair of legs at both shoulders but still upon the cloak.
I think that could be done, but I'd prefere not to touch the head since it looks kinda good and I'm afraid I'll end up ruining it ^_~
So any sugestions with keeping the head in place? I totally forgot the front paws so I'm going to sculpt them anyway.

Offline Rorrak

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2005, 11:06:41 AM »
No don't put it behind his head. Over the shoulder very similar to what you have now works. If you have any of the old knights panther models you will see what I mean better than I can describe.
 
Let me see if I can find a link to a picture.

Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2005, 11:15:21 AM »
I don't have those models, but are you refering to the knight panter in the classic and collectors on the gw-pages and then the second one with the head over the left shoulder and one paw over the right?

Offline Vann Harl

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2005, 11:35:34 AM »
Fantastic hair effect. You'll have to give a pictoral account of how you did it. I've seen the article on the games workshp site and i wasnt impressed.
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Offline Rorrak

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2005, 12:23:16 PM »
Quote from: faeg nad teli
I don't have those models, but are you refering to the knight panter in the classic and collectors on the gw-pages and then the second one with the head over the left shoulder and one paw over the right?

 
Yes more or less like that one. That one has only its top jaw on his shoulder though. I have a one thats not listed on their site. Similar to the other one where the head shows over the helmet/cage thing but its coming over the shoulder instead. (No not the classic Grand master)
 
Maybe mine was a conversion between the two. It was 15 years ago that I first got them. I recently repainted them though and didn't see any conversion work.

Offline Midaski

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Quote from: Gneisenau
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Metal to Finecast - It is mostly a swap of medium. 

You mean they will be using Ouija boards instead of Tarot cards for their business plans from now on?

Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2005, 09:10:47 AM »
I think that I'll cut the head of and put it on the cloak of one of my knights of the white wolf.
And then I'll sculpt another wolfhead on it's shoulder, this one facing forward (and slightly to the left), In addition I'll sculpt one leg under the head hanging on its back and another that curves around the other shoulder (perhaps forming somesort of clasp(sp?) for his cloak)

Do you think that would look better?

Offline boca majstor

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2005, 09:28:52 AM »
Can someone write an article about sculpting furs, cloaks and furry cloaks out of green stuff?
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Offline brother ducat

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2005, 04:29:37 PM »
just add a leg section down on the left side of the cloak(from the rear) and it will look great I think. Well, even better than it already does, which is brilliant as it is, in my opinion.

Offline Neisha

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2005, 03:49:10 PM »
I second the request for a sculpting article. :)

I have succesfully sculpted fur trim, but not an entire "free-flowing" cloak.  Do you do the cloak first and let it dry and then add fur?  

I can't even begin to think of sculpting that wolf head.  Great job!  As far as the postioning, I think there are some good suggestions, especially after looking at some existing models.

~Neisha

Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2005, 07:42:05 PM »
You can't really sculpt a furry cloak out of thin air, if you want to sculpt anything you'll need a base to work from or else you'll just keep pushing the whole thing to the side which is very frustrating (yes I learned it the hard way)

With this model it was easy since I only needed to add the fur on an existing cloak.

I'll probably have an article within some time, I'm building my knights of the white wolf and the standard bearer should get a wolfhead on his head, so that will involve fursculpting and I'll make some work in progress foto's.
It's really not that hard....just try it a few times.

Offline inzeos

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2005, 04:57:30 AM »
Great work on that conversion so far.  Might I suggest that if you want to leave the wolf head there, that you create some scultiped seam or heavy duty thread so that it tricks the viewer in to believing the head was sewn on or positioned like that on purpose.  It would eliminate the air of disbelief that the pelt came off the wolf like that.

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Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2005, 10:39:19 AM »
what I'm going to do to the pelt will involve adding a tail and some legs, I'm going to leave the head there since it's sculpted around a pin and I'll destroy it entirly if I want to move it.
I'll probably finish the conversion next week (so that should mean within 2 weeks). I've also finished the preparations for my standard bearer of the white wolf and I'll try and make an article on how I'm going to sculpt the wolfhead/ cloak on him. That should be done in one evening, I've got an exam next friday so I'm not sure if I'll finish it but I should be able to do it.

Offline Dazgrim

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2005, 01:31:53 PM »
IMO that conversion rocks and I would like to second (or third/fourth whatever) the request for a fur sculpting article. I like the idea of a standard bearer with an animal pelt on his head, kinda like the steriotypical roman legionary standard bearer, if you do an article I would definatly have a go at doing that on my new Knights Panther :-)
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Offline faeg nad teli

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sculpting article
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2005, 02:56:55 PM »
Well it's finally done, my very first article. I've already noticed that I should have taken a bit more pictures, and that not all the pictures are perfect and sharp...ah well lets call it a lack in experience.

So on to the fun stuff:
Preparation
First some basics on how I sculpt:
The tools I use are:


I use the tweezer for creating the rough shape of whatever I'm working on. The upper tool of the 4 is the GW sculpting tool, I didn't use it on this model but it's very handy when your trying to create a flat surface (armour).
The other 3 are somewhat the same and I just use the one that works easiest. (when I added some scales at the wing-joints of my forest dragon I had to work round the arms, wings and body so I switched very often)

The first thing you should remember is to always keep your tools wet, some use euhhh some grease stuff (we call it vaseline in holland) others use spit, I use water and that works good enough for me. It keeps the greenstuff from sticking to your tools.

The second thing is that you need to have a base where you work from, you can't sculpt without it because you keep pushing the model to the side. Therefor I added a pin to the miniatures head, this would keep the nose in place when I'm sculpting it.

You'll also notice that there is already some greenstuff on the model, that is because I first added some hair and eyes to the head. (the head is from the empire knightly order box, but originally it had a helmet. Should you use a normal head you might want to cut some of the hair, when you keep the hair in place the wolfhead will be to big.

Third, it always pays to have some examples of what you want to sculpt, be it a drawing, an other model or some picture. I used the teutogen guard standard bearer:



The Sculpting
You could create the entire head in one go, but since I'd be adding a banner that would end up very close to the wolf head I decided to add the ears later.

Ok, first you mix up your greenstuff and add it, since the wolf head is generally a nose and a part with eyes and ears I also added the greenstuff in two parts.
Notice that I folded the greenstuff back around the pin.
=>



We then have a head with two balls of greenstuff on it, time to pick up my tweezers and give some shape to them:
define the nose, flatten the balls of greenstuff down to the cloak so you can connect them (make sure you have a bit of overlap between the greenstuff and the cloak)

Notice that I already marked the places for the eyes, make sure that left and right is in the same line. Do this by turning your model a lot and keep looking at it from different angles.

The next part lacks some pictures, sorry for that.
I sculpted the fur (more on that at the end) at the side and back of the head as well as between the eyes.
I sculpted the eyesockets and the teeth

The teeth are not that difficult to make, first draw a horizontal line where the teeth meet the upper lip.
Then continue by pushing vertical lines between the teeth and curve them slightly.
The nose is a bit more difficult to explain, make sure it is symmetrical and look a lot at the example.
The eyes require a lot of work, keep looking at them from different angles constantly. Notice the difference between the right and left side on the pictures, the left side looks more dangerous because it has a slight curve in it.
Add the eye itself later by putting in a tiny ball of greenstuff.

Because I did the ears seperseparately the rest of the head I let the head cure for a night.
The next day I added a new ball of greenstuff:


and gave it a rough shape with my tweezers:


I used the rest of the ball of greenstuff to create the new part of the cloak and added a little ball of greenstuff between the ears for I thought there wasn't enough between them:


Then you just shape the ears, I can't really explain how to that just try until it looks good. Keep checking for differences between left and right.


That was it for the head, I added the standard:



I also wanted him to have paws over his shoulders so I added some greenstuff sausages and an other ball of greenstuff to connect it to his cloak


Then you sculpt the fur on his back and besides the ears.
I sculpt the fur by creating lots and lots of descending lines, start with big rough shapes and keep adding smaller ones until you are satisfied.

Detail:


The same goes for his paws and your done:



I'll answer any questions you have, and I'll probably be doing another 14 of these cloaks and heads since I need 3 units of 5. So I could try and make more photos of specific parts of the sculpting.

Offline bigrin42

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2005, 03:56:02 PM »
FNT,  this is a terrific sculpting article.  I would like to addit to the Workshop if you don't mind.  I think it would make an excellent addition.
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Offline faeg nad teli

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Fur/ wolfshead sculpting on page 2
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2005, 09:38:56 PM »
It's fine to add the article to the workshop, but I'll probably create a new one with more and better pictures when I work on the next knight. Until then I guess this will have to do ^_~