Topic: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .

[GamesPoet]

Yep, all this movement by GW towards smaller boards seems to be a bit lacking in tactical options.

[brr-icy]

Yep, all this movement by GW towards smaller boards seems to be a bit lacking in tactical options.

Most of the games have a huge lack in tactics anymore. More if you get a yahtzee that turn.

[Warlord]

8th was the move away from tactics.
6 turns onnan8 foot wide table doesn’t really allow for much manuevering either though.

[brr-icy]

8th was the move away from tactics.
6 turns onnan8 foot wide table doesn’t really allow for much manuevering either though.

we tend to play as long as it takes to annihilate the other, we're generally just hanging out drinking for the evening anymore. I don't enjoy tournament settings at all, played enough of them back during 6th and 7th to last a lifetime, min maxed hot garbage lol.  8th was pack up my toys and move onto other hobbies time.

[Zygmund]

6 turns onnan8 foot wide table doesn’t really allow for much manuevering either though.

Funny enough, the 3rd ed, where the 8'*4' table is given as the ideal, did not give a game length in turns. It mentions five turns as an example, but then suggests even as few as three turns per player might be satisfactory in a tournament where time is the limit. For friendly games, no time or turn limit is given, other than an evening.

So yes, not necessarily a maneuver game any more than any other edition. What I see as the benefit of an 8 foot wide table is the opportunity to really divide your army into two main battles, or the main battle and two flanks, and pursue a game that feels like a battle and where terrain plays a role. IIRC, the model count tended to be smaller back in the time, and there tended to be more ordinary troop types, so you had this regiment feel but also more room around the individual units. Add the two-phased movement, and the game truly felt like a big battle with key moments.

But much of this probably mirrors innocence and nostalgia. The 3rd could be played as hard and probably was as 'broken' as most other editions.

It was also a time when the most important rule read: "the GM is always right!"

Kings of War has a very good rule: play five turns, and after the fifth, roll the dice to see if a sixth turn is played. Forces you to play relatively fast and wisely. Did Warhammer have this kind of a rule in some edition?

-Z

[KTG17]

I’ve given it some thought and plan on working on a new 5x4 table. I know it’s not 6x4 but I want to be able to store it in a closet I have when the legs fold up. I had made a 6x4 with foldable legs before but I used too much wood and it weighed a great deal and took up too much room in the closet. Then weighing a ton was a pain in the ass to move around.

I agree with the criticisms in a 4x4 table. Even the Space Marine games felt a little restricted and that game uses tiny models. But I also realized that the WFB terrain that I have take up a lot of space so I am hoping that extra foot helps. I really don’t plan on enlarging my armies which are either based around the starters or battalion sets plus a few character models and an additional special or rare unit. So hoping that helps.

It’s really trying to find a compromise between size, usefulness, and storage.

Also in response to Gamespot on the loss of tactics, I especially noticed this with Adeptus Titanicus. I knew as soon as I saw the larger models (compared to their original counterparts) that they would have an effect of shrinking the gaming area. In the older Epic games, you had the room to make great sweeping attacks utilizing hills, forests, buildings, etc but in this version of the game the Titans are pretty much the biggest models on the board. And since they made the game to play on a 4x4 area, they had to come up with some way to make up for the lack of movement and cover and come up with a game more about resource management than tactics. I hate it. I know there are fans of the game out there, but it’s boring to me. I don’t want to spend my time managing what’s going on internally with my Titans while being pretty much at point blank range from round 1. And I feel the same is kind of happening in 40K as they keep coming out with larger and larger models on bigger bases. All this means more restricted movement, so... let’s more roll dice instead.

I recognize that the models look great, but I really appreciate the old days where you might have mini battles raging across the board and spending time thinking where you were going to send your next unit, as opposed to just moving everyone 24 inches. You could do that when the models were smaller. I lined up everything I had from Indomitus across 3 Manufactorum tiles and thought, this just looks ridiculous. How could you ever explain how all these guys even got this close together before the shooting started. I guess you could make shit up but still.

The larger models help the painting hobby, but I think it hurts the games from a tactical sense. Movement gets replaced by other mechanics which usually means more dice rolling or resource management.

[brr-icy]

Two foldable tables from walmart or whatever gives you a 6x5 table when pushed together and stores nicely

[GamesPoet]

It really is quite amazing what can be found for fold up tables, and so I second the idea.

[KTG17]

I made this today. Just finished.

6x4. I had planned to do a 5x4 like I said I would, but said screw it. I am happy with the results, but still wonder if I really need all this table. With the legs folded up it fits in the closet. Its pretty lightweight. I bought the best wood I could find for the sizes that I wanted.

And get this, I have that citadel battle mat, and thought I would just lay it on the table, however, while I was waiting for the spackle to dry, I got a notification that another battle mat was listed on ebay for $60. Is that providence, or is that providence? I know I already have one, but I thought I would take a shot at permanently mounting one on the table. So I don't mind spending $60 on this experiment. If it fails, I have the original one to lay on it.

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH I wish I just built the 5x4. Oh well.

[Artobans Ghost]

Nice table!!!

[GamesPoet]

Excellent!

Doesn't a battle mat fit a 6x4?  I'm confused.

[KTG17]

Thanks guys!

GP the mat is 6x4. I originally planned to do a smaller table and have the mat just lay over the sides at the end, but when I opted to do 6x4, I still planned on just laying the mat down on it, but after winning the second mat, I am going to try and permanently glue that one to the table.

I’ve done various mats in the past with varying degrees of success, from perfect to wrinkles to completely ruining the mat. That’s why I didn’t want to take a chance with the only GW battle mat I had. But now I am going to give it a go.

[KTG17]

I just saw there are nearly 30,000 views to this thread. Such a disappointment I still don’t have painted armies to show after all this time lol 😂.

[GamesPoet]

Suspect some are just bots. 

[KTG17]

Dammit I am really feeling dumb making this huge ass table. The more I look at it the more I wish I did 5x4. I gave some thought of how I could take the legs off and run it through the table saw but then the supports would be off center. I might make another table top next weekend in 5x4 and see how I like it. I want to be sure before I glue the surface on.

I just HATE having more than I need. Especially when I am not going to be using it that much.

Dammit.

[GamesPoet]

Dude 4x6 is cool.  When I visit some day I can bring one of my scenarios fit for that size, and we'll have a grand time!

 

[KTG17]

I’ve been doing such a good job downsizing and going with smaller games and I go an do this.

One of the reasons I decided to go bigger is the realization that a lot of the terrain I have is pretty big, from hills to rivers and lakes to trees and some houses. In order to use them I would need space but I think I could have learned to just use less.

The only way to be sure is to build the 5x4, compare the two, then chop up the one I don’t want.

Btw, I said I was done buying, but there has been one thing that’s bothered me and it’s my General for Chaos. The dude I was kitbashing wasn’t doing it for me, and I recently discovered they released an Archaon on foot. So I decided to get the newer version and the foot version, to match all I have done that for all my armies.

Not intending to use him as Archaon, he’s just a hero.

Ok now I am done.

[Warlord]

Extra space for books and discarded miniatures on your table is always handy.

[brr-icy]

Nice, a proper sized table is a great start. I used to play on a 4x4 and a 5x4, none of those games were that great due to lack of space to actually do anything tactical. A decent sized table is along the lines of "if you build it, they will come" lol I still need another 6x4 in my new place. I won't even bother playing on the 5x4 kitchen table i have now.

[GamesPoet]

I'm for at a minimum 5x7 which is what I have currently.

This size provides space for larger games if desired, and I can always do something smaller on it, while having space for dice, figures, measuring tapes, rule books, etc.

[brr-icy]

I'm for at a minimum 5x7 which is what I have currently.

This size provides space for larger games if desired, and I can always do something smaller on it, while having space for dice, figures, measuring tapes, rule books, etc.

nice, pretty sure my current one is 5x6.5 works for 6500 points per side in 6th when we go that big

[GamesPoet]

I'd love to have 5x8 or 5x10 or 5x12, maybe even 5x14!  Not enough space currently for the latter though.

[brr-icy]

My friend has a 5x24 table in his basement, it's pretty epic. He plays more historicals though. we did a chaos incursion with themed chaos armies on one side and whatever on the other, it was pretty sweet.

[KTG17]

Yeah if I had a basement, this would be a moot point. I would certainly have a big table there.

And btw, to add to this comedy, I can't fit the table I just made into the closet I was planning on without taking the doors off the hinges. 

The size has grown on me, and now that its away for now, I feel better about it.

Question: I got my Archaon on horseback, and it has a large square for a base. I am planning on mounting him on a regular cavalry base anyway, but was wondering how the larger base would have played out in the rules. I mean, every other mounted general I have is on a narrower base, and therefore gets some benefit of the number of models that can attack them from the front. But according to the rules, Archaon would face more. How did/would you guys resolve this?

Excited to have Archaon btw, just waiting on the foot version. I am pretty stoked about my Chaos armies. I have the pieces in place for a Marauder themed one, and a Chaos Warrior one, which of course I could borrow from each or combine.

Mauraders:

Custom General on horse and on foot
Custom Wizard
Custom Battle Standard Bearer
20 Marauders
5 Marauder Horsemen
10 Chaos Hounds
Sort of custom Marauder Chariot (Using the old metal Chaos Chariot as a base)

Chaos Warriors:

(Archaon as Hero) General on horse and foot
Chaos Wizard
Limited Edition Chaos Battle Standard Bearer
12 Chaos Warriors
5 Chaos Knights
Chaos Chariot

I know I need another Core for the Warriors, so I this is where I would have to borrow from the Marauders.

Very excited about this. I got all the pieces I need after a couple of years of hunting around. Its really the last of my battalions that I didn't have all my i's and t's crossed since I couldn't come up with the hero models I was happy with.

I hope one day I can have a big game combining the Warriors + Marauders + Beastmen against some poor souls. Maybe an Empire + High Elves + Dwarfs force.

[GamesPoet]

Ya know ya got a real hobby trooper there when hinges start coming off doors to store a hobby table!