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Tactical Decision Game 1.3: Empire Turn 3 versus the Ogrebus
***Note- read the following threads to follow along with the Tactical Decision Game 1 storyline.
--Tactical Decision Game 1: Empire versus the Ogrebus (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43557.msg735054#msg735054)
--Tactical Decision Game 1.1: Empire Turn 1 (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43628.0)
--Tactical Decision Game 1.2: Empire Turn 2 (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=43653.msg738191#msg738191)
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Tactical Decision Games are a fun way to think through tough situations that Empire Generals face. In this TDG, we are working through different tactical situations presented to us during a 2500 point battle versus an Ogre player named “Bruiser” who uses an “Ogrebus” as the foundation of his army. Right now we are in Turn 3. Even if you haven’t participated up to this point, don’t hesitate to join in and post!
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Bruiser’s Turn 3:
Bruiser is a little bit happier now that he finally killed our tank, but he needs to get his Ogrebus into the action before this game slips away…
No surprise, his Ogrebus charges our Luminark. We hold. Since the LAB (long-ass bus) can’t swing all the way to our Lum’s front, the Lum has to finish aligning to the charger. We lost some of the nice angle we had on the divertion…but we should still be good. It would be a long Overrun into our Halbs.
His last Ironblaster searches for a suitable target and decides our Demis look pretty juicy. He moves in their direction to line up a shot.
The Leadbelchers, freed from the tank, move forward and over slightly to line up some long range shots at our small Archer Wizard bunker.
The Gnoblars near the Demis reform to face our cavalry and start laying traps to prepare for a charge, while the other Gnoblars continue to march towards our lines with their sights set on our Archers.
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3Ogre.jpg)
Magic & Shooting:
No magic, so here comes the scrap metal and cannonballs again!
The IB fires, hits, and does 3 wounds to the Demi champion. He gave his life in service to the Empire. I rolled a Panic test and when I saw the first 5 come up my heart started to sink and I was thinking “you have got to be kidding me…” when the other die came up a 2. Whew. They hold.
The Leadbelchers, pissed off after losing half their strength, open fire at the Wizard bunker. Only 1 hit and even it fails to wound. Another whew.
For combat, the Lum’s Acolytes go first and target one of Bruiser’s Bruisers. Unbelievably, they wound on 6s their two attacks! The Bruiser saves one and takes a wound. Otherwise, the poor Arcane Altar gets smashed to pieces as the Ogres take out their frustration in the lack of good combat they have had so far. Bruiser decides to reform them 4-wide so they can squeeze and turn in front of the building to keep both the Greatswords and Halberds in their forward arch.
The Mournfangs are still having a tough time of it. Our boys dish out two more unsaved wounds, killing one model, leaving them with only 2 left. Now our Greatswords barely have the flank of the ‘Fangs when we can charge on our turn! (For those of you that recommended charging instead of getting charged…this combat is for you!)
This is how it looks as our Turn 3 starts:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3OgreDone.jpg)
Empire Turn 3:
We did the charge/movement phase last turn, so I am going to move us up to the magic phase this turn.
Also- our charges are fairly straightforward. Our Demis are hitting the Gnoblars to gain some ground (they take 1 wound from the traps). While the Leadbelchers and Ironblaster look tempting for our Greatswords, we need to stick to the plan to get the VPs for the Mournfangs. Our GS get the flank charge on the ‘Fangs.
Otherwise, the Wizard moves to the safety of the Halb bus, and our two Archer detachments move into position for blocking/diverting.
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3Emp.jpg)
Tactical Decisions for 1.4:
Time for the magic phase again. I don’t think this will be too difficult for us; we have gone over our selection of spells in 1.2.
However, a different dilemma for us this time. I roll pretty crappy for the Winds of Magic- a 5 and 1. Instead of us getting our usual channel die, the Firebelly comes out of nowhere and gets one.
So…we have 6 Power Dice and Bruiser has 6 Dispel Dice. What should we do???
A few notes:
--The Lum is gone so no bound spell anymore.
--Nothing within 12” to heal from the Life signature benefit but all forces except the Demis are within 24” of the Wizard.
--Wizard can target the Ogrebus, Leadbelchers and Ironblaster with Dwellers.
--The Ogrebus still has the BSB with the Runemaw that can redirect spells that target it on a 2+.
--For those joining late- we have Flesh to Stone, Shield of Thorns, Regrowth, and Dwellers along with the prayers Soulfire, Hammers of Sigmar, and Shield of Faith.
List all the spells you would cast, in the order you would cast them, and how many dice per.
I am going to do it a little different than TDG 1.2...where instead of resetting after every spell I am going to total up the votes for the first spell, and once it is cast, search for the spell with the second highest votes, cast it, etc.
TDG 1.3 should go pretty quick once all the normal crew has cast their votes. Need some new blood too! If you haven't voted before, it doesn't matter! Join in!
:::cheers::: HHG
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The only spell that matters is Hammer of Sigmar on the Greatswords. That combat has to drive the MFs off the board so the re-roll to wound seems the highest priority.
I might lead with Regrow on the DGs or FtS on the GS to pull dispel dice.
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Why aren't we more worried about the Guthorde charging our halberds next turn? They look like they're in easy range.
I know it's Monday morning quarterbacking, but I think we should have moved our archer detachment to redirect the gutstar, and we should have shuffled the halberds 2" sideways or charged the Gnoblars to get them further out of the way.
I agree, however, with Noght. We must crush the MFs this turn. HoSigmar will take care of that.
But I must be missing something... why aren't we more worried about our big Halberd block?
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Need to take out the Mournfang this turn. We can expect 4 active and 7 passive CR. The MF will likely drop 8 men, giving us the win by 3, forcing the MF to test on a leadership of 4. Good, but I'd like to have at least 1 buff get through, just to be safe.
Spell order:
1) Flesh to Stone (3 dice) on the Greatswords. If successful we challenge his Champion with our Warrior Priest (or the GS captain) and force half of the MF attacks away from the T3 Halberdiers.
2) Shield of Thorns (2 dice) on the 5-man Archer unit. Maybe we can deal some wounds back when they get charged.
3) Shield of Faith (1 dice) on the Greatswords.
I don't like dwellers here. The ogrebus is virtually immune to it and casting it will require most of our power dice. We'll probably miscast and end up killing a single lead belcher. Meh.
But I must be missing something... why aren't we more worried about our big Halberd block?
Looks to me like the Archers are positioned so the Ogrebus would hit them if they tried to pivot to hit the Halberds.
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Some questions first.
Why the wizard to the halberd bus? This way we can´t charge next turn without our lvl 4 mage being squashed to goo. Better to stay outside the halberds and use the 4+ ward save from being close to infantry.
Can the gutstar charge past the archers to the greatswords once they killed the mournfang and have reformed towards the center?
If so we should consider buffing them up with flesh to stone and 5+ wardsave. If not we can do whatever we want the impact on the turn won´t be immense, what should be considered is hammer of sigmar on the Gs and flesh to stone on them to minimize losses from the mournfang (who surely will die or at least being overrun (by the halberdiers GS should hold back and reform to the gutstar).
I advise against the shield of thorns it is a remain in play so Bruiser can just use his otherwise unusable power dice in his magic phase.
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Why aren't we more worried about the Guthorde charging our halberds next turn? They look like they're in easy range.
The 5 archer unit is in the way. They are blocking the Gutstar by preventing him from being able to wheel enough to make a legal charge on the Halberdiers. It also looks like the Archers are positioned such that if he overruns after squahing the archers the Gutstar will miss the Halberdiers.
This is kind of a wash of a magic phase........... there are no must cast spells, Shield of Thorns and Dwellers are both poor choices at this point and the only good target for Regrowth is so far away we will have to boost it (15+ Casting Value) to get the range to hit the Demigryphs. That's 4 dice territory.
Damd it's hard to push our +4 casting advantage.
I think I would go with the following..........
1) 2 Dice at Flesh To Stone on the Greatswords.
2) 2 Dice at Shield of Faith on the Greatswords.
3) 2 Dice at Hammer of Sigmar on the Greatswords.
Nice, simple and straight forward. He can't stop them all and even one getting through should be enough to guarantee the demise of the Mournfangs. Which is goal number 1 for the turn.
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Damnit... I was looking at the wrong picture. Positioning looks fine. Thanks guys.
I'd say we want to use our +4 as much as possible. We want to get those WP spells off, but there we're at parity with the Butcher. Unfortunately, our L4 doesn't have that many useful spells for this phase.
1) Flesh to Stone on the Greatswords - 2 dice
2) Shield of Faith on Greatswrds - 2 dice
3) Hammer of Sigmar on Greatswords - 2 dice
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2d flesh on halberds.
2d shield of thorns on Small archers
2d hammer of sigmar on GS
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I know it is risky but I would
3 dice flesh to stone on the halberdiers
2 dice shield of faith on the halberdiers
1 dice hammer of sigmar on the halberdiers.
I think we need to prepared the halberdier horde for his bus.
During combat the warrior priest should challenge not challenge the mornfang champion I think. We are looking to hand 6 unsaved wounds on the mournfangs and wipe them out. This is not going to be possible if the Mournfang champion is safely in a challenge.
The mournfangs are a VP problem for us. because of swift stride they are not likely to be cut down and at L7 there is a 50% chance they will reform next turn. We need to keep the greatswords to flank charge the Orge bus so can't waste them charging after the mournfangs
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I think we need to prepared the halberdier horde for his bus.
The halberd horde can't be hit by the bus. He is blocked by the archer detachment.
because of swift stride they are not likely to be cut down and at L7 there is a 50% chance they will reform next turn.
If we cut the unit down to 1 model he can only rally on 1's (25% or fewer).
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I think we need to prepared the halberdier horde for his bus.
The halberd horde can't be hit by the bus. He is blocked by the archer detachment.
I can't be bothered looking but as soon as the slaughter our detachment to a man they can over run into the halberd horde, which means if not this turn than certainly next turn that Orge Bus is in combat. We need to be able to flank charge it with the greatswords :)
because of swift stride they are not likely to be cut down and at L7 there is a 50% chance they will reform next turn.
If we cut the unit down to 1 model he can only rally on 1's (25% or fewer).
They put that rule back in. hmmm keeping our priest alive is more important than the BSB, challenge with him
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1) 2d FtS on the GS.
2) 2d SoF on the GS if FtS doesn´t go off; if it does, SoT on the 10 Archers so the Gnoblars will have a harder time charging them.
3) 2d HoS on the GS.
All of this under the assumption that the Bus can´t get to the Halberds next turn.
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double post, sorry.
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Can the gutstar charge past the archers to the greatswords once they killed the mournfang and have reformed towards the center?
Seems to be lots of questions about what exactly the Ogrebus can/can't do on its next turn.
I thought it looked fairly obvious on the graph, but the Archer detachment is positioned so that the Ogrebus cannot wheel to hit our Greatswords or the Halberds next turn. If it hits the Archers it will maximize models in combat and be lined up for a poor Overrun...which will also miss our troops. Obviously the Wizard left the Archer detachment to avoid certain death.
We have effectively stopped the Ogrebus...for at least 1 more turn.
As far as spell selection- I agree with Noght. Everything is smoke and mirrors besides wiping the 'Fangs off the planet. I think we start off with something to hopefully pull some dice and toss all the rest on Hammers of the Mighty Empire Protector, Sigmar!
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Empire 3rd Turn Magic: The Current Vote
The overwhelming favorite to lead us off is 2-dice on Flesh to Stone on the Greatswords. I am just going to go ahead on roll it.
Our Wizard got a crappy roll- 6 + 4 = 10 total. Bruiser rolls half his dice and gets a solid 12 total. Dispelled.
We have 4 PowerDice to his 3 Dispel Dice.
You can change your vote in light of this, otherwise, I am going to give this 24 more hours, close it out, and finish off our Turn.
I know this Turn wasn't that exciting...but it is what it is. I think we have some great turns coming up, however.
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Hammer of Sigmar 2 dice on the greatswords
Shield of faith 2 dice on the greatswords
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Typically I like veryone's suggestions....but here's a crazy idea.
Do we still want to be locked in combat with the 1 mournfang at the end of our turn?
Bruiser may be able to charge us with the ironblaster and/or leadbelchers, but I think we are ok with that as this is the next lot of points we want to get. If he doesn't choose to charge though we can dispatch the last mournfang in Bruiser's turn and reform after combat to be facing the right direction for the next move as Bruiser will have already moved his troops by then.
So my vote is:
2 dice shield of faith on the GS
2 dice shield of thorns on the 10 archers - I think grifter has a good point that we don't want the archers locked in a combat on our turn as we need them to block the gutstar next.
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2d FTS on Halberds
If FTS goes off:
1d Sof in GS
3d HoS on GS
If FTS doesn't go off then:
2d SoF on GS
2d HoS on GS
I agree shield of thorns is useless on any one not in BtB this turn as bruiser will just dispel it in his phase.
The reason I advocate 3d HoS if FtS goes off is that if the halberds are buffed then SoF is a nice little extra but not that important so why not throw more dice at HoS which we really want to get off.
Also I think challenging is a bad move we want to kill the champion at all costs, if we kill him and the mournedang break then the unit is wiped out (just the standard bearer and champ left right?) so no need to worry about chasing them down etc. therefore all attack possible should be directed at him. Challenging him with our not to Killy characters seems silly and a little dangerous. This changes if the bsb is in BtB with the GS in which case as many halb should try and take his last wound off him as possible to allow the GS to hit the champ either way challenging the champ means none of our GS get to fight in this round as the only MF in BtB will be the champ who they can't hit due to the challenge.
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As we've already cast Flesh to Stone and had it dispelled, I'm thinking 3 dice Hammer of Sigmar on the Greatswords and then 1 dice Shield of Faith. Lets crush the Mournfangs so we can reform to face the bus.
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I like the suggestion of finishing the MF´s off on their own turn. It would keep the GS save from the IB and the LB, though
our DGK would likely suffer for it. Oh well, they´ve done their job.
With that in mind, I´d like to change my vote to:
2d HoS to draw Bruiser´s DD out next. Then 2d SoF.
I´d like to note though that SoT wouldn´t be a complete waste...if the winds of magic blow weakly on Bruiser´s turn, he might not beat the casting value of 9 to dispel it...unlikely, but not impossible.
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I´d like to note though that SoT wouldn´t be a complete waste...if the winds of magic blow weakly on Bruiser´s turn, he might not beat the casting value of 9 to dispel it...unlikely, but not impossible.
Shield of Thorns is remains in play? Crap.
2 dice Hammer of Sigmar on Greatswords
2 dice Shield of Faith on Greatswords
One of them should get through.
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Heck just 4 dice the Hammer of Sigmar. Refuse any challenge and blow up the Mournefangs. You need to reform and face the Gutstar, the Halbs can chase MF if required.
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Heck just 4 dice the Hammer of Sigmar. Refuse any challenge and blow up the Mournefangs. You need to reform and face the Gutstar, the Halbs can chase MF if required.
This. Let's just blow the spell through, blow up the mournfangs and then reform towards the Gutstar.
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Seconded!
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I disagree the mournfangs are doomed bruiser knows this ( and might mourn their demise) best he can hope for is doing as much dmg as possible before they go. Hence i suggest four dice shield of faith and challenge with the AL is the champion the one in contact with the greatswords ? The we shouldnt challenge as they wouldnt be able to strike we get prayers and hatred even with the al in the back
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Is the champion the one in contact with the greatswords ? The we shouldnt challenge as they wouldnt be able to strike we get prayers and hatred even with the al in the back
Great question. After further review of the army list, I realized there is no champion!
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Empire 3nd Turn Magic: The Current Vote
All Shield of Faith 1
All Hammers of Sig 4
½ Shield / ½ Hammers 6
A few other combos too…
I am being impatient and will likely run with what we have before the full 24 hours I promised expires... right now the ½ & ½ have it by a few votes.
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Finishing Empire Turn 3:
Alright, here we go to finish off our Turn 3.
Magic
--on a 2-dice Shield of Faith we get 6.
--Bruiser responds with the rest of his 3 Dispel Dice and gets 6.
--Dispelled… (Notice he does that a lot?)
--the 2-dice Hammers of Sigmar goes off uncontested.
Shooting
Our small Archer detachment shoots off some arrows at the Ogrebus (just because). No effect.
Our large Archer detachment does better- it drops 3 stinky Gnoblars into the dirt forcing another Panic test. They roll snake-eyes. I guess they really, really want a piece of the Archers shooting them down…
Combat
Are you ready for some cooooooooomBAT?!? (hell yeah...ready for some football to start soon too!)
The Demis take no wounds while whipping out 6. Gnoblars run 7.” Demis hold and reform to face the ‘Blaster. (I was tempted to Overrun until I noticed that if we did, the Ironblaster would probably get a fatal flank shot off on us!)
Now for the important battle- all our forces make their Fear checks. Our Halb detachment goes first. They fail to score a wound- even though they are pumped up by Sigmar. The WP fails to score a wound but the BSB gets 2.
The Mournfangs go. One attacks the Halbs and kills all but 2 of them. The other one attacks our WP and rips him into shreds. Bruiser still hasn’t used his Breath weapon from the Dragonhide Banner… He wants to use it to kill some expensive Greatswords but he decides to send the icy blast into the Halb detachment to finish it off. Needless to say, they turn into icicles and die.
Time for the Greatswords to shine. Blessed by Sigmar, they get exactly the amount of wounds they need to finish off the Mournfangs. Whew.
They reform 7-wide to face the Ogrebus.
Here is what the carnage looks like at the end of our turn:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3EmpEnd3.jpg)
Tactical Decisions for 1.3:
So…the battle is half over! While not related directly to battle field decisions, I have a few questions for you before we move on.
Despite the flaws in our current Victory Point system, they are an integral part of playing a Warhammer game and determining a “winner.”
Part of a General’s skill, then, is to be able to look at a battle in progress and determine if he is currently “winning” in the VP column…and if not, what has to be killed in order to achieve this.
Without cheating and taking out a calculator to determine the actual points on the board remaining (even if you do this after the fact, please do not post it until I do) what does your “gut” tell you by looking at this graph, knowing what you know about our forces and the enemy?
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3EmpEndClean3.jpg)
Question 1:
Are we winning by 500 or more?
Are we winning by 100 to 500?
Is the battle currently a draw?
Are we losing by 100 to 500?
Are we losing by 500 or more?
Question 2:
Assuming we sacrifice all our Archers, can we win (by 100+ VPs) without taking out the Ogrebus?
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Q1 I think we are at a draw as we have lost the stank, the knights, the luminark and the halberd detachment so far while he lost the mournfangs and a blaster.
Q2 we will score a slight win if we manage to kill the leadbelchers and the ironblaster while sacrificing our archers.....but as we are Sigmarites we will crush them pesky ogres next turn by a doulbe charge.
I still think it was a mistake to put the mage in the halberds....also the greatswords should have deployed 10 wide into horde no reason at all to put them 7 wide, we don´t need the ranks as they are stubborn and if we want to break the ogrebus the halberds will supply the ranks for that.
Also the death of the priest is what I meant with...the fangs will do as much damage as possible.
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the greatswords should have deployed 10 wide into horde no reason at all to put them 7 wide, we don´t need the ranks as they are stubborn and if we want to break the ogrebus the halberds will supply the ranks for that.
I actually thought about reforming them into a horde while rolling the dice and then forgot to do it.
Since we haven't moved on at all, I will make that correction. It is the best choice.
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I think fandir has answered the questions with regard the VP system. In reality and end to this battle that does not take out the guthorde is a draw at best, because his main battle force is still at large.
Also why have the Greatswords reformed 7 wide? They shout either be 5 wide (in an attempt to make them less of a target for the ironblaster (though I don't really mind the iron blaster shooting at the greatswords) or ten wide in order to have the most attacks against the guthorde.
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I hope I don´t come over too arrogant I just point out my thoughts in a way what I would do...I question all my own decisions in the same way after a battle....especially after a one I lost. Therefore losing is often more gaining regarding an increase of knowledge.
LETS bust this bus then if we manage to attack from front and rear or front and flank or just flank we should have good chances of bringing it down.
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though I don't really mind the iron blaster shooting at the greatswords
This would probably be the only reason not to. The IB can easily line up to potentially hit a full row of 10. Combine that with the Leadbelchers and the Greatswords are going to shed some blood.
I hope I don´t come over too arrogant I just point out my thoughts in a way what I would do...
It is all good. Nobody has the corner on the market for good ideas.
The thing I have really enjoyed about this TDG so far is that while we all don't agree (actually, I don't think we have had complete consensus on anything!)...we have all been civil and respected each other's opinions. :::cheers:::
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Regarding the greatswords I would place them with a different facing more tipped towards the lead belchers and ironblaster preventing a flanking shot AND also giving us the chance to charge those two units if we wanted to we only need to see the end of the large ass ogre bus to charge them it will be hard to hide from the GS anyway.
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I think we're close to a draw, maybe at a slight disadvantage. We lost a lot of points in our chariots. He has all of his characters in that bus.
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Regarding the greatswords I would place them with a different facing more tipped towards the lead belchers and ironblaster preventing a flanking shot AND also giving us the chance to charge those two units if we wanted to we only need to see the end of the large ass ogre bus to charge them it will be hard to hide from the GS anyway.
The main reason I didn't do that was because I didn't want to give Bruiser an out by allowing him to purposely Overrun the archers and get outside the Greatswords LOS.
Sure, we could tweak it more towards the center...but I think we need to stay focused on the prize. The Ironblaster can move 6" and do a full pivot to shoot the GS in the side. If we make sure and avoid that, I think we are not covering down on the Ogrebus like we need to.
Taking my Bruiser hat off and trying to think like him from the Empire General trying to figure him out...no way I am letting the GS get to the flank of the Ogrebus next turn. At the very least, those Leadbelchers are going to get in the way.
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It looks pretty equal to me atm too.
As bruiser i would consider charging the halbs with a character. Try and swat our wizard, or if a challenge is issued , there is a good chance of winning the combat even.
Then charge the archers with main unit, reform to face GS, whilst character holds up halbs.
Aim would be assassinate life wiz. wipe out GS's with shooting ( ironblaster) and leadbelchers and combat later.
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I just had another idea and question to pose to you before we move on that is closely tied to my VP questions:
Do you want the GS reformed to focus on getting to the Ogrebus so we can hit it from multiple angles?
Or, do you want the GS to reform like the graph below to use the wall for protection from the shooting of the Leadbelchers and Ironblaster and to set up a charge on one of them on our next turn? In this scenario, we would continue to try and avoid combat with the Ogrebus.
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3GSPoss.jpg)
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1) I agree that we're at a draw.
2) I think we'd win if we wiped the second IB and the LB unit. I would have reformed the greatswords so they're threatening the charge on the IB and LBs and avoided the Gutstar. I'm not confident that we can take it down.
EDIT: Yay! HHG just proposed this. I completely support the new reform.
I can't remember, is the Gutstar stubborn? I assume it is.
Were I the Ogre player, I'd reform the Gutstar to face the greatswords, give the halberd bus my flank, and pull the LBs up to wipe the screening archers, giving me a clear path to the GS's. A halberd bus in the flank isn't going to do all that much to the star, and he can always have his characters make way to the flank, if he wants. Bruiser can still force a favorable engagement with his star, and in the meantime, his ranged units can continue to do decent damage.
IF the halberds were in horde, it'd be a different story. We can reform after the first combat, but the modified LD test will be difficult, I think... and we might not want to risk having fewer ranks than Bruiser.
It's a tough call, but I'd avoid the star and clean up the rest.
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I can't remember, is the Gutstar stubborn? I assume it is.
Nope, none of the Gutstar characters have the Crown of Command.
One thing of note that hasn't been discussed at all: our AL is in the Halberd bus and he IS wearing the Crown of Command. There are advantages to going to a horde formation in the future if we need to. :-)
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There are advantages to going horde formation as soon as possible so. The only advantage of bus is that it has more ranks (and that is a very slight advantage). If we are stubborn (CoC) then we should be in horde next turn.
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Kill the Leadbelchers and the Ironblaster. Feed the Archers to the Gutstar. Win the game.
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Do you want the GS reformed to focus on getting to the Ogrebus so we can hit it from multiple angles?
Yes. We need to threaten the Ogrebus, that forces his hand. If we don't threaten the Ogrebus then he has freedom to dictate the terms of battle.
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One thing of note that hasn't been discussed at all: our AL is in the Halberd bus and he IS wearing the Crown of Command. There are advantages to going to a horde formation in the future if we need to. :-)
He won't last past the first round of combat, in my opinion.
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One thing of note that hasn't been discussed at all: our AL is in the Halberd bus and he IS wearing the Crown of Command. There are advantages to going to a horde formation in the future if we need to. :-)
He won't last past the first round of combat, in my opinion.
He won't last long in the bus...what I am hinting at is if the situation arises where we can go into a horde and keep him tucked away on the edge of it, we might be able to keep him out of BtB.
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That depends, he'll last a fine amount of time we manage to hit their flank.
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Kill the Leadbelchers and the Ironblaster. Feed the Archers to the Gutstar. Win the game.
This 100% We don't want to go anywhere near that Gutstar unless we can hit it with everything we got at once. Keep feeding it archers until we are ready to tackle it.
Also I agree that we are probably running around a draw right now VP wise.
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Looking back at the lists I think the dead piles are as follows:
Empire - 15 halbs, 1 WP/dragonhelm, 6 ICK/FC/Banner of swiftness, 1 luminark, 1 steam tank
Ogres - 4 Mournfang std/musc/dragonhide banner, 1 Iron Blaster, and 2 sabrecats
I think the empire is losing at this point.
A dead IB or leadbelcher unit would even the score, taking out both of them would put empire ahead in VP's.
So I don't think I would want to take a chance on the AL dieing in combat right now. I would take out the LB's and IB, use the DGK and archers to kill the chaff (2 gnoblar units).
With no other units left on the table then I would focus on the gutstar and depending on the points difference it might be focusing on staying away from them if possible.
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Survey says.....
Question 1 Answer: Bruiser is winning right now by about 183 VPs.
Question 2 Answer: we can win if we kill the Leadbelchers and the Ironblasters without losing the GS, Halbs, or Demis.
If I did the initial math right, that would put us in the lead by 105 VPs. Killing the Gnobs will double that.
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Holy Cow Batman, that is close.
Just for your own knowledge, this Ogrebus comes in at a whopping 1393 points!!!! What that means is- if your plan is to ignore/delay an Ogrebus, you probably better kill everything else if you want to win.
Many of you have cooler heads than I do....because I really want a piece of that Ogrebus. Remember the Battle Rager? I don't just want to beat Bruiser, I want to take the best he has got and have him walk away empty handed.
However, I will listen to the majority. This is what we are going with:
(http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w495/DaHoffmans/TDG1T3GSPoss.jpg)
TDG 1.4 coming soon.
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I totally hear you, HHG, but those Battle Rager opportunities come up infrequently for us Empire players. I've had two glorious Gutstar moments - one with the old AL on Waltar in the front with the Speculum, and a horde of Greatswords in the side (not a very experienced opponent) http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=40104.0. The other was a glorious charge of IC Knights, Reiksguard, and DGs into a full Gutstar. It was ugly. Almost no ogres remained to attack back.
However, for those two glorious charges, I have had to play about 40 games against OK. I've learned the hard way that avoidance is our best tactic against the Gutstar.
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However, for those two glorious charges, I have had to play about 40 games against OK. I've learned the hard way that avoidance is our best tactic against the Gutstar.
I am glad that you have been contributing- you have been a font of Ogre knowledge...obviously knowledge paid for in blood lost.
What is your win percentage against them? Tipped in your favor, or theirs?
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Now depending on what Bruiser does you can combo charge the Gutstar in the flank or rear and "pin" it limiting the attacks back. You need the DG's close though for a rear charge.
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Though I missed the latest discussion I whol heartedly agree with the plan to reform as shown and continue to avoid the gutstar
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I am glad that you have been contributing- you have been a font of Ogre knowledge...obviously knowledge paid for in blood lost.
What is your win percentage against them? Tipped in your favor, or theirs?
Hey, this has been one of my favorite distractions from finishing my dissertation, so thank YOU.
I wish I could say it's better than 50/50, but it's not. My main opponent is a very solid player, with a mean list. We usually draw nowadays. However, in tournaments, we often seem to come face-to-face in the upper brackets... there, surprisingly, I have an excellent winning record against him.
I haven't met another OK player I couldn't beat, but I've only met a few others and those in tourney settings. I'd say I'm most well-prepared for OK.
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Hey, this has been one of my favorite distractions from finishing my dissertation, so thank YOU.
On that note, I can remember getting side-tracked when I was working on my Thesis... day dreaming about how I was going to build up my Orc and Goblin horde.
Too funny. It was a necessary distraction...and allowed me to keep my sanity!!! :-P
Glad I am helping to keep you out of the looney-house.
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I actually suprised we are only down by 180ish points my gut said about 250 so we're doing better than I thought. We still have 3 turns to finish the lb's and IB and that gives us plenty of time plus an opportunity for a last ditch attempt on the gutstar if it looks appealing. All is not lost but my gut says we may just squeak a win.