Topic: 2015 Painting and Modelling competitions - Themes and Discussion thread

[Oxycutor]

It's only just over a week away until the new year.

I hope to get more participation next year, so to try and get a majority opinion, can you vote on the following, for what you'd like to see

Frequency - How often would you like to see it run?
Keep it monthly
Bi-monthly
Quarterly
Other (Please Specify)

Format - Would you like more than just a general painting competition?
Painting competition
Painting competition alongside conversion/modelling competition (separate competitions, but running at the same time in the same thread)
Alternate Painting and conversion competition
Painting alongside conversion, alongside scenery
Alternate Painting, conversion, scenery
Other (Please Specifiy)

Themes - What style of themes would you prefer?
Open themes like last year
Tight specific themes like previous years
Alternate between open and tight
Run a general open theme alongisde a specific tight theme alongide it, sort of as separate

Scoring - How would you change the scoring and judging?
Keep it as it is
Score by category, such as painting skill, colour scheme, theme - suggest categories if you like
If scoring is 1 to 10, what would you classify as 1 and 10, what would be average?
Have a vote instead of a score?
Other - (Suggestions)

Any other changes or suggestions.

Finally - Suggestions for the actual themes

I#ll try and set things up as best fits the outcome of this, Cheers.

[Shadespyre]

Monthly or bi-monthly. Quarterly means too few categories. You don't have to enter every time (which I have this year) after all.

I don't think there's much point in having very tight categories, that narrows down participation. Although if the categories are announced early (like this year was) people can plan way ahead, which will suit the really high level painters who spend weeks on each model.

I think unpainted conversions are a different skill so hard to judge along side painted models. Some converted model categories would be cool, but I would like to see a painted model and WIP pics in that case.

The fact this thread had 27 views and no posts before this one is a bit of a worry, I just don't know how much interest there will ever be... 

Going through the entries thread, there are around 50 entries for 2014 (counting one per person on any given month) so far, and I entered 11 of those myself.

I'd really like this to be successful, but given 12 very open opportunities to enter, roughly 4 per month have done so. Not sure how to make it easier for people? 

[Victor]

More or less a copy-paste job from my post in the other thread:

o) A monthly competition is too frequent - it devaluates the whole thing in my opinion and people lose interest. One every 2 months (so 6 times per year) with more entries sounds much better.
o) I'm not so fond of the open categories. It sounded like a good idea to me at first as well, but it's not much of a competition anymore if the entries are so different from one another, as you can't compare them.
o) To compensate for the frequency reduction and the removal of the open categories, each bi-monthly competition could/should offer 2 categories.

On a different note: I've been suggesting for years to also bring back a modelling/conversion competition, or better yet, to hold a competition, where both modelling/conversion and painting skills are judged. Last time we've had that was probably 6 years ago and it was quite a success with many fantastic entries. The judging of the entries was done by the community by the way - polls were created and people could vote for their favourites, which might also help to increase the interest.

[Casual]

Hi!


I think the painting challenge is really good, I had been meaning to enter in previous months but didn't manage to complete my targets - sorry!

I like the openness it gives more options however judging may be quite difficult, perhaps go via troop type?

I think a voting system might be quite nice in addition to the scoring.

Looking at the last year I think the judging has been really fair with the scores.

As for entry categories I think with 3-4 entries it is difficult to create more than one.


Anyway i am new to the forum so do not want to push my opinion around too much especially considering I have only participated in this once! I will participate January - March and then I have to move abroad and won't be taking my warhammer with me at first

P.s please make January chariot/wizard wagons

Happy Holidays!

[Oxycutor]

I would prefer to keep it monthly.

While I like the open categories, sometimes, I'd like to see what people could do with a very narrow theme.    I feel that the open categories, gives more people flexibility to fit in an entry with other projects they are working on, so more chance of getting an entry done.   

But I'd quite like to see a like for like thing, such as what can you do with the barefoot state trooper with the monkey face.   Or see what people come up with for an Altdorf trooper.   That poses challenges in that people may not have the miniature, or want to paint one mini in a schem that's not for their army.  I ahve loads of little one of projects that are just shelf minis, but that's not necessarily the case for others.

I'd like to see a return of conversion competitions.  We haven't had one for ages.   Perhaps not every month, and I sort of feel that the themes are more suited to doing a unit entry from out army book.

We had scenery entered last year, but infrequently.  Perhaps we could have a quarterly scenery competition.

I'd really like to know what would get more people to enter.  We started off quite well last year, but it has dwindled quite a lot.  There are plenty of people posting pictures of their armies on any given day, many over the course of a month.

For alternative voting, we could either have a poll, highest number of votes wins,  At the moment, 4 people judge on a score system.  we could perhaps allow averyone to PM a score in over the first week of the following month.

But are nearly out of time.  I'd like to get an idea of what we should be aiming for, so I can post up the plan and categories for the year, as it starts in just 2 days

[mottdon]

This sounds fun.  I haven't really participated in many of these events but I'm looking to get into more.  I'll keep an eye out for it!   

[cjp]

Frequency - How often would you like to see it run?
Keep it monthly

Format - Would you like more than just a general painting competition?
Painting competition

Themes - What style of themes would you prefer?
Open themes like last year


Scoring - How would you change the scoring and judging?
Other - (Suggestions)
I prefer to not know how its being scored. Clearly there is a formula at work, and as there is nothing being ventured as far as prizes or entry fee, i'm happy to put my full trust in the anonymous judges to be internally consistent, on whatever scale they set.

Suggestions for the actual themes

The God of Hellfire  (any blackpowder weapon (handheld or warmachine))

The rest of the empire (non combatants, civilians, baggage train, scenic unit filler. not troops)

If I ran the zoo.  (any animal, beast, bound monster,  ridden or unridden )

With a little help from my friends (Allies, dogs of war, or non-human empire subjects/friends ((halflings, imperial dwarves, mercenary ogres, stuff that used to be considered 'empire' in the old rules ))

I liked the color based thematic options as well.  

[Warhammer-Weib]

Monthly or bi-monthly.

Painting and scenery.

Open themes like last year.

I also like the idea of choosing a specific manufacturer per month for the competition and keep open what exactly people want to paint (historical, scifi ...) as cjp suggested in another thread.

@Scoring: 1 - undercoated mini. 2 - mini has accidentally fallen into a paint pot.  Tabletop standard would be a 5 for me. Deduction of points if there is no basing / basecoat is still visible / the mini is unfinished / less than tabletop standard ...  Additional points for a well chosen colour scheme, good to excellent highlighting/shading, basing, smooth transitions, conversions and freehands, a well painted banner, details / atmosphere in case of scenery/unit fillers etc.

[Gankom]

Last years themes were really good and open enough to leave tons of options to get done each month.

I like it just being a painting and scenery contest myself. and monthly is probably the best option.

[Oxycutor]

So, it's already well into the year, and there isn't yet a painting competition.   

I'm not sure what to do.  There isn't an outright obvious way that people want to do it.  And there also doesn't appear to be nuch interest.  So far, only one person has asked me if it's happening, and with low participation it seems a bit pointless.  There are over 11000 forum members, and just lloking at post counts, 2-300 are regular posters, yet we are lucky to get half a dozen participants in the painting competition.  It has never been intended for a few, but for anyone to take part.  Also, The End Times, and the Bubblehammer prophecy has killed enthusiasm somewhat, and with this year of change (Curse that foul Tzeentch!)   We don't even know what there will be from the summer onwards.

I want to run something, as in the past it was good motivation to get miniatures painted for me.  I didn't really caer about scores, I just wanted to get something done, and see other people's versions of the theme.

I've gone over previous years, and last year got more entries than the previous year, around the same as the year before that,  but was a long way short of the first time we did it in 2011, but that saw a rapid decline.  Most years the first month has the most entries, and maybe one other spike in the year.

Despite the open themes which around 2/3 of the people that said a preference preferred open, the narrow themes have produced more entries.  The first being single state trooper, the next best was general, and then special character, when we were doing unit enrries from the army book.  Mostly single miniatures on foot.  The least numebr of entries have come from big mosters, or war machines - Siege Cannon came up twice over the years, and got one entry the first time, and nothing the second time.  Back when we had conversion competitions we had even more entries, than we did with painting.

I think to try and satisfy both narrow and open themes, painting, conversions (and fit things into the year, now e're already into February) and try things to get people to take part has left me with the following plan

It's open to all forum members, and we'd like to encourage you all to enter.
I might drop scoring.  And get people to comment in this discussion thread instead
I think we can allow anything to be entered if it hasn't been entered before.  Even if it's not recently painted, though the point of it is to motiviate you to paint something new, or repaint something old.
And run a monthly open theme
Something I would like to try out, a monthly narrow theme separate to open theme, for empire states.
A bi-monthly conversion compeition with it's own set of themes,
And start off with a one-off special.

So.   For the monthly open themes, something I started writing a while back for a fluff thing for the End Time, based on Churchill's Battle of Britain speech, with a hint of Magnus the Pious.

March   Soldiers of the Empire, Sons and Daughters of Sigmar.
April   We have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.
May   We shall not flag or falter. We will go on til the End.
June   We shall fight them in the Forests and the Mountains, and on the Rivers.
July   We shall fight with growing strength in the heavens and the earth.
August   We shall defend our Empire, whatever the cost may be.
September   We shall fight on the walls, with fire and thunder.
October   We shall fight on the battlefields with faith and courage.
November   We shall fight in the streets with Steel and Iron.
December   We shall never surrender.  For Ulric, For Sigmar, For the Empire.

For the narrow theme, it's a state of the month, it only has to be a single trooper, but can be a unit, but something that shows off the colours.  Though where a state is linked with a city-state or other, you can choose either scheme.  You could enter most of these with just a box of state troops, painting each one differently

January   Averland   
February   Hochland   
March   Middenland, Middenheim
April   Nordland   
May   Ostermark   
June   Ostland   
July   Reikland, Altdorf
August   Solland, Drakwald, Sylvania - the former states.   
September   Stirland   
October   Talabecland, Talabheim
November   Westerland, Marienburg
December   Wissenland, Nuln

For the bi-monthly conversion competitions, going back to the old way of doing things, and picking unit entries from the army book ~ish

January, February:  Witch Hunter/ Priest
March, April:  Famous Regiment
May, June:  Arcane Battle Wagon
July, August:  Beasts of War
September, October:  Lords and heroes
November, December:  War Machine

And to kick things off for February, a one off.   Can you turn something awful into something great?  We are talking about the bare-foot, monkey-faced state trooper.  (Doesn't have to be any particular state colour scheme, it's just an attempt to see if you can make the model look good despite itself) - And that is essentially the competition for February
And just so you know the one I'm talking about



When entering, say which of the competitions you're entering.  Conversions can be painted or not, but I think WIP shots, and a list of components for the kit-bash/conversion is probably a fair request.

If that's agreeable, I'll create a thread for the entries, and get someone to 'sticky' it.

[Shadespyre]

Well done on deciding to launch something in the face of apathy! Let's see what happens next.

[Victor]

@ Oxycutor: First of all, I really appreciate the work that you have put into the competitions in the last years and your continued effort to increase the interest in these events. I think I have only entered once myself, but I certainly like to look at well done entries by others and would love to see the competitions back to their former glory.
With that being said, I don't think your suggested categories for this year will work. It's too much and too complex. I do no wish to discourage you, I merely want to help a bit. I've pointed out the importance of having entries that you can actually compare with one another before, but if people want to also keep the open categories, fine. But I'm afraid your open themes are too open, if that makes sense. Themes like in recent years would be preferable. The narrow themes are too open too, meaning that a single state trooper could compete with a unit of knights, which doesn't work. At the same time it actually prevents most people from entering more than once or twice. The coversion competition could do with more restricted themes as well in my opinion.

We should keep it simple and straight forward with categories such as:

Units (with full command or not?) :

• Unit of 5 knights
• Unit of 5 soldiers of the Empire
• Unit of 5 missile troops (archers/crossbows/handgunners)
• Unit of 5 greatswords
• Unit of 5 outriders
.....

Champions/Heroes/Lords:

• Unit champion on foot
• Captain/General on foot
• Captain/General/Grandmaster on horseback
• Wizard on foot
• Wizard on horseback
• Character/Champion on Pegasus/Demigryph
• Witchhunter
.....

Other (no direct army book entries, but can be worked into your army):

• 3 citizens of the Empire (civilians)
• Assassin
• Artillery commander
• Alchemist
.....

... And so on. Most categories work for both painting and conversion competitions. I also wouldn't get rid of the scoring/voting, otherwise it's not a competition, but merely a painting motivational thread like the one we already have and I never read. If only we had a gallery feature on this forum like we used to, then we could let people upload their entries each month and have everyone vote.

[Oxycutor]

The more open categories do tend to bring in miniatures that vary a lot,  But it did get more entries.  Possibly because it's easier to fit in something you're working on for other reasons.   If that is the reason then, then maybe it's not even worth having a theme, but just enter what you've painted that month. 

The side state troop thing I wanted to do wasn't to compare a swordsman with a swordsman.   It is to compare an Altdorfer with an Altdorfer for example.   It's the different takes on the uniforms and heraldry rather than the unit type.  By state troop, I would consider them to be Halberdiers, Spearmen, Swordsmen, Crossbowmen, Hangunners, Archers, Free Company Militia (more or less), Greatswords, Huntsmen, Huntsmen, Possibly Outriders and Pistoliers, but you see less of the uniform on those) and war machine crewmen.   Stuff that is pretty much kit-bashable.  Yes, it probably excludes Knights and stuff that have their own heraldry, but this year I wanted to see the various takes on the Empires states colours, that people could come up with.

Also, I think the no direct army book entries we'd be lucky to have entries, since there isn't really anything as far as official models.  Though artillery commander would get covered by Master Engineer in the army book.

Just over half say they want open categories, others want narrow categories.    However I set it up, it would be a format that just abour satisfies half the people.  I can't keep changing the format, we're nearly halfway through February, and I think we need a decision, and not any more debate, so I hope you'll still be interested, but I think at this point we should go with the proposal

[Victor]

The more open categories do tend to bring in miniatures that vary a lot,  But it did get more entries.  Possibly because it's easier to fit in something you're working on for other reasons.   If that is the reason then, then maybe it's not even worth having a theme, but just enter what you've painted that month. 

This would turn the competition into a clone of the "2015 Painting Challenge" thread.

The side state troop thing I wanted to do wasn't to compare a swordsman with a swordsman.   It is to compare an Altdorfer with an Altdorfer for example.   It's the different takes on the uniforms and heraldry rather than the unit type.  By state troop, I would consider them to be Halberdiers, Spearmen, Swordsmen, Crossbowmen, Hangunners, Archers, Free Company Militia (more or less), Greatswords, Huntsmen, Huntsmen, Possibly Outriders and Pistoliers, but you see less of the uniform on those) and war machine crewmen.   Stuff that is pretty much kit-bashable.  Yes, it probably excludes Knights and stuff that have their own heraldry, but this year I wanted to see the various takes on the Empires states colours, that people could come up with.

It's a legitimate idea, but I don't think this will get many entries. Not many people are willing to paint up miniatures with a different colour scheme just for the sake of this competition, especially not every month. As you said, you like the competition to be a motivation to get things painted for your army, but these themes are prohibitive for almost everyone.

Also, I think the no direct army book entries we'd be lucky to have entries, since there isn't really anything as far as official models.  Though artillery commander would get covered by Master Engineer in the army book.

That were just some random ideas for conversion competitions that I had. I share your expectations about the number of entries, but at least they would have been more popular than the 'siege cannon' theme of previous competitions.

[Zak]

I say lets make it more creative points for over all best  conversions, paint, and base for each category 

[steveb]

I agree with Zak       steveb

[Warhammer-Weib]

I just want to report back how much the Randomplatypus Paint-a-Long is motivating me to paint.

The only prerequisite is the manufacturer so a lot of projects I wanted to finish or start anyway fit in very well. The rest is completely up to you, you decide whether you want to paint a unit, a larger model or just one mini, as it is an open category.

In January, it was GW so the Cauldron of Blood I was painting anyway fit in very well. In February, I was able to start the Saucepans project that had been on my agenda for a very long time. And I still have the finished base from the basing workshop last August with an unfinished mini from Hasslefree. That will be my goal for March.

The person organising the painting 'competition' donates a mini each month. There are no scores for the contributions. They just roll dice so it's pure chance who gets it. I think that's a nice extra, but the biggest advantage is motivation and that you get to finish projects you have wanted to paint for a long time, at least at the beginning as almost everyone has some unpainted GW, Reaper or Hasslefree miniatures. And I'm also looking forward to the rest of the year because I'll get to know the range of minis other less well-known manufacturers have to offer.

[JAK]

Has this started yet – I couldn’t find it on the other forums. I only usually read this ( the B&P forum) and always used to forget where it was when it was on one of the others.

I do hope it will be resurrected either as run last year which I think worked well or whatever the other members want, preferably with a conversions category, although little chance of me entering at present.