Topic: AoS Valten

[mottdon]

I've been reading through the new battlescroll and is it just me, or does Valten suddenly seems rather...good?

His "Marked for Greatness" ability grants him an extra D3 attacks and re-roll save once PER BATTLE...not per game.  Is that each time he enters a new close combat, or does it actually mean "per game"?

[Clymer]

I'm inferring that 1 game = 1 battle. Check out the wording in the rules under "The Battle Begins"

But I think Valten and frankly most heroes and monsters got much more better.

[Oxycutor]

I agree with Clymer.  Once per game.

[Philhelm]

But I think Valten and frankly most heroes and monsters got much more better.

I disagree for the most part.  Characters certainly gained a boost in wounds, and in some cases a more favorable to hit value (for example, Witch Hunter's now hit on a 3+ against everything, despite the fact that they used to have WS4), but they tend to have lower armor saves (albeit unmodified), and have little customization.  Most importantly, rather than being attacked by a couple of individual models, characters can now be swarmed and targeted by several models.  Aside from a character's armor save, enemy models can wound characters just as easily as they can wound anything else.

[Rein]

However a character costs as much as a foot soldier

[Philhelm]

However a character costs as much as a foot soldier

True.  I guess I can finally field an entire army badass of Witch Hunters. 

[Soapstar]

Also (if I'm reading the rules right) wounds carry over. So Karl Franz with Ghal Maraz kills 3 state troops for every to hit and wound not saved. With the runefang he has the potential to kill 12 basic troops and an unhurt deathclaw has the potential to kill 24!! Obviously that is unlikely but heroes are still way OP.

So OP combined with the fact it is beneficial to have less models and this really is Herohammer at it's best. Why would you take none missile state troops?

[Philhelm]

Also (if I'm reading the rules right) wounds carry over. So Karl Franz with Ghal Maraz kills 3 state troops for every to hit and wound not saved. With the runefang he has the potential to kill 12 basic troops and an unhurt deathclaw has the potential to kill 24!! Obviously that is unlikely but heroes are still way OP.

He is more offensively powerful, but he is also easier to swarm and kill I would imagine.

So OP combined with the fact it is beneficial to have less models and this really is Herohammer at it's best. Why would you take none missile state troops?

Fewer models.   

[Oxycutor]

Because hitting on 4+ wounding on 4+ is the average, and there are synergies to buff those, and with rend the modifier for the save, which is generally also only a 4+ before rend, it's actually pretty easy to wound most stuff, even big stuff like monsters.  They do now have large numbers of wounds, but mosters tend to get weaker as they take wounds, and as heroes can't hide in a unit to get a "look out sir!"  it's easier to target stuff as well.

[knightofthelance]

Also (if I'm reading the rules right) wounds carry over. So Karl Franz with Ghal Maraz kills 3 state troops for every to hit and wound not saved. With the runefang he has the potential to kill 12 basic troops and an unhurt deathclaw has the potential to kill 24!! Obviously that is unlikely but heroes are still way OP.

He is more offensively powerful, but he is also easier to swarm and kill I would imagine.

So OP combined with the fact it is beneficial to have less models and this really is Herohammer at it's best. Why would you take none missile state troops?

Fewer models.   

Much easier to swam and kill or shoot. And it's hard to say anything is OP. OP compared to what, something else that you took because you had completely free choice?

On the less/fewer thing: That's the sort of thing that drives me nuts- if I know for sure that the error is made by a native english speaker. But that's not a safe assumption on the internet. I also know that the last thing I need is a grammar critic when I try to write on any of the german forums I visit.

[Soapstar]

Heroes definitely seem to be weaker against small arms fire now (hence comment about taking missile troops) but I think you may be overestimating the effectiveness of the swarm. KF vs 30 swordsmen if they go first and somehow can all pile in will take roughly 3 wounds in response he will dish out 12 wounds (less swordsmen will die if he was to go first incidentally although he would only take 2 wounds) a further 11 will flee so in one turn you have lost over 2/3 of your unit and he is still rocking 10 wounds.

I appreciate there are synergies that can help but that works both ways. In classic hammer taking expensive heroes/momsters etc was offset to a degree as the more you spent on them the less other stuff you had to create those synergies. Thats just not the case with the rules as we have been given. It is a game where 'less (but bigger) is more'.I think thats a shame seeing large beautiful armies square off against each other has always been one of the big attractions to WHFB for me.

As for the fewer over less I learnt somethimg new today thank you 

[knightofthelance]

I have the same thoughts on the large armies. But Hero hammer has always sold. Which makes me think AoS just might work even though it's not nearly what I want in a game.

[Philhelm]

Much easier to swam and kill or shoot. And it's hard to say anything is OP. OP compared to what, something else that you took because you had completely free choice?

A unit can be OP in Age of Sigmar because there is no game balance.  For instance, Vampire Lords and Necromancers can raise an obscene amount of Undead units, and a player can take as many characters as he wishes.  If the solution is that I should take the same unit to counter it, then what is the point of having different factions to begin with.

On the less/fewer thing: That's the sort of thing that drives me nuts- if I know for sure that the error is made by a native english speaker. But that's not a safe assumption on the internet. I also know that the last thing I need is a grammar critic when I try to write on any of the german forums I visit.

I was just referencing a character (shown in my avatar pic) from the show Game of Thrones.  I'm not a bona fide grammar Nazi.

[knightofthelance]

A unit can be OP in Age of Sigmar because there is no game balance.  For instance, Vampire Lords and Necromancers can raise an obscene amount of Undead units, and a player can take as many characters as he wishes.  If the solution is that I should take the same unit to counter it, then what is the point of having different factions to begin with.

That's pretty much my point really. Everything is OP and nothing is. OP only really exists in a game that's trying to be balanced. And wherever you stand on liking it or disliking it I think we can all agree it's not trying to be balanced.

[Jomppexx]

So OP combined with the fact it is beneficial to have less models and this really is Herohammer at it's best. Why would you take none missile state troops?

Fewer models.   

Your profile picture makes this comment perfect.

[mr chumley warner]

Heman gets + 8 DENT ability in turn 0

[Dotification]

Yeah dudes, Valten on horseback is a sturdy mofo, considering you have a 83% chance to come back with another 5 wounds.

FWIW I am still underwhelmed by Markus Wulfhart, Ludwig Schwarzhelm, & the Luminark.

Can we plz get our own sub-forum to discuss AoS?  I would like to have somewhere to theoryhammer this w/o all the salty trolling . . . 

[Luthor]

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[Dotification]

Yeah, it's a bummer Luthor's beast-mode has lost a couple steps.  I guess they want Valten to get some Hulk-mode action now instead.

I like the d3 heal on Warrior Priests, but wish the War Altar of Sigmar could still bubble out Battle Prayers, & had Hammer of the Sigmar on its profile, though free upgrades like Horn of Sigismund, Sigmar's Shield, & the Power of Faith take some of that sting away.  Also +3 to Hit for D3 Light of Banishments, doing 3 Damage apiece, @ a +2 to +4 to Wound range, w/ Rend -1 also helps.


(BTW Huss was one of my fav parts of the Archaon book.  I see from your profile you're quite the fan, heh.)

[Dosiere]

I don't know, Huss was pretty good in 8th, I used him any time I took Knights.  One of the few special characters that was consistently used by people really.

[Luthor]

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[SoonerSox]

I love the Valten profile now. When I read the ability to resurrect himself like the Vampires have, I immediately placed an order (since the stores don't carry him). I think the greatest thing about AoS is that it has made the Empire feel fresh and new to me. So many models and units that would never be seen before due to their points efficiency are now on the table. 

[Fidelis von Sigmaringen]

You did not need AoS for that - a new, more balanced AB would have done the same.