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Between the Battles & the Art ... => The Count's Tavern => Topic started by: Crimsonsphinx on May 10, 2010, 01:56:06 PM
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HI Everyone,
Im hoping somoene on here collects the current edition of Imperial guard? Im looking for a few pointers really.
Here is my plan.
3 battalion boxes and a codex. This should give me a reasonable amount of soldiers? What are the set ups for a single troop choice now? 2-6 squads and a command?
Then its just buy some extras. I imagine I will have to buy a few chimeras and probably a leman russ varient or two.
Any thoughts? This look sensible?
Marc
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I was tossing up between Orks and ImpG. I heard one of the nastiest builds was this:
3xVeteran squards with Meltas in Chimeras
3x Leman Russ of any variant
2x Vendettas.
FROM the little i remember having played impG a few times it's junior office 2-5 or 6 squads in which specialist and heavy weapon teams are part of the platoon as well.
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Guard is one of the tougher codex of the current edition you really can´t do much wrong if you field them the way you want.
Large Infantry formations are good as you are able to choose how you field them either giving you lots of scoring units or very large groups of up to 50 soldiers in kill point missions.
The Leman Russ is still a great tank and the Vendetta is supposed to be pure nasty if you have the money to field three of them they should be set.
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What is a vendetta?
I have not got the book and I don't buy WD anymore so the info I can get is primarily off their website. We play on a very heavily urban table for 40k, so nearly everyone gets a cover save, nearly all of the time.
Does anyone know if I can have a baneblade or other super heavy in the normal list?
If it turns out they are not for me, my other proposed army is Nids, which I had priced up as very expensive [wanting a forgeworld flying hive tyrant isnt helping the money cause there!]
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You can't have superheavies in a "normal" game without permission, and the rules for them are not in the Imperial Guard codex.
The Vendetta I -think- is the 3 twin linked lascannon variant of the Valkyrie, a flyer.
The Valkyrie is basically a HIND gunship, moderate armament, and carries troops.
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Thanks MrDWhitey! :-D
I knew what the Valkrye was, I just had not seen the Vendetta. Sounds expensive!
The super heavy thing I will have to consult my gaming group. I was hoping they would make into the regular book, but never mind.
Its more a toss up between nids and guard and I don't really want to buy both codexes before deciding. Heck I might even modernise my eldar [for yet another edition]
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Go guards. They are awesome. Don´t listen to Ben. Three measly squads of vets in Chimeras will just die to a stiff cold. If the enemy takes out those three squads, you got no more scoring units.
Make a platoon with maybe three squads and back it up with two veteran squads. That is a good start.
And Russes of course.
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With three batallion boxes, that would give me 6 squads of 10 and 3 command squads. So one HQ one, and then two platoons of three squads?
Im guessing here as I dont have the books. I may consider a single veteren squad or something in the future, but to start with, I want a large amount of horde infantry.
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With guard, 6 squads isn't very hordey. :happy:
A basic guard squad of 10 men comes to 50 points, give 'em an Autocannon and Grenade Launcher each and 3 flamers to the command squads, and you're looking at 480 points for those 70 dudes.
One version of a very solid troops core for a larger army:
Infantry Platoon
+ Command Squad
- Platoon Commander
- 3 x Guardsman with Flamer
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsman with Grenade launcher
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsman with Grenade launcher
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsman with Grenade launcher
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsman with Grenade launcher
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsman with Grenade launcher
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
- - - > 370
Infantry Platoon
+ Command Squad
- Platoon Commander
- 3 x Guardsman with Flamer
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsman with Grenade launcher
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Laser Cannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
- - - > 400
770 points
That's 110 bodies for pretty few points, and gives you five squads with Autocannons and GLs that can hunt light vehicles and also shoot at infantry pretty well, and five squads sporting lascannons with plenty of ablative wounds. The Platoon commanders have three flamers each and hang behind the infantry, ready to grill anyone who eats one of your squads in CC. Solid core you can add to with veterans in Chimeras, artillery, flyers and tanks.
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Do you think it would make sense to spent the points for a chimera for the command platoon each as I have about 7 standing around because of my steel legion of earlier days.
Also what happens with the chimeras if I for example make 3 squads with a chimera each and want to combine them in a mission?
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Yeah, a CCS in a Chimera is a good investment. Chimera, Flag (for leadership rerolls, basically a BSB) and either a Lascannon or some meltas to shoot from the hatch.
You don't have to embark in a dedicated transport, it's just that no one else can start the game in another squads dedicated transport.
But I wouldn't bother giving regular Guardsmen a Chimera anyway, those are perfect for vets. Regular Guardsmen footslog and take the enemy fire like men!
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wave upon wave until the space marines run out of bolter bullets.....
ha I can see it right in front of me.
What is your opinion on Sentinels?
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They can be good if you can spare the points. I often take a unit of 2 scouting sentinels armed with Multilasers or Autocannons and let 'em outflank. You'll often get to blast somethings rear (or at least side) armor when you arrive, and they are completely expendable. So he either uses something to get rid of them (in which time it doesn't go for the stuff you care about) or ignores them, in which case they just continue to do their thing. And if you get really lucky they might even be able to contest an objective or kill something valuable.
I like 'em. Annoying, cheap and semi-useful.
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Take Carapace Armour on all your Vets!
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A vet squad with Carapace for some Grenadier goodness!
I have assembled a squad of vets with grenadiers, packing a plasma pistol, 3 plasma guns and a lascannon. They will get a Chimera in time. And might get to ride a converted 1/35 scale german halftrack in the meantime. Muhaha...
Oh, sure there will be some "Get hot!" but I will be able to cut through my sons Termies like they were made of butter! :icon_mrgreen:
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I so wish Medics were an option outside command squads... FNP on a bunch of plasma dudes would be awesome. But in a pinch carapace will do, and on a unit with 4 plasma spitters it may actually do some good. Happy termie hunting! Oh, and monstrous creatures? They won't like that squad much as well.
:happy:
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Thanks for the advice guys. It has given me a lot to think about. Maybe ill need some extra boxes of soldiers in adition to the battlions. :-D
What about the regimental command things? Commisars, psychers etc? Any good?
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Primaris psykers suck.
Lord commisars are good in gunlines because they can use his leadership, but then it would be easier to use Creed and Kell.
I rarely spend points on carapace! I think its a waste of pts. If my men die, then so be it, I've got plenty more:P
A thought i have been going around with though. I was thinking of giving my normal infantry squads plasma guns to make them bite some more. Until now, I have run them with 5 pts weapons but i dont think they make a large threat..
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I rarely spend points on carapace! I think its a waste of pts. If my men die, then so be it, I've got plenty more:P
I was trying to bait Aldaris, but he deftly avoided it this time!
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I am old, but not too old to learn. :-D
Concerning HQ options.
The best all round option is the Company Command Squad. Affordable, can act a bit like a Fantasy BSB (except the units in question can also reroll panic checks), has a good BS (and nice weapon options), advisors allow to support certain strategies nicely.
The key is not getting carried away when outfitting them. Consider what you want them to do and focus on that. Keep in mind that whan all is said and done, those are still guardsmen - meaning they're squishy and don't fight very well. But they can do very well in a command and support role. Just don't expect them to perform like a Space Marine honor guard unit, and you're going to like them.
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I usually give my command 3 plasmas and a medic and place them in a chimera. I have them join the rest of my armoured squadron and then just play offensive, its a nice feeling.
But i will try a gunline soon i think :P
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A guard army which isn't a gunline? What were you smoking? :engel:
I am old, but not too old to learn. :-D
I'll get you. Just you wait.
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Im playing mechanized :P
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A mobile gunline is still a gunline you pot smoking hippy!
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I always thought putting move or fire heavy weapons in normal units was a bad idea? Surely that is why you have those heavy weapons team squads?
I was thinking of only having special weapons in my HQs and special units. Normal guardsmen left with lasguns.
Hopefully this is a bit more relevant around here. I have used headswaps on my necromunda gang with catachans using a mix of chaos/catachan and empire heads. Im thinking maybe for veterens I could use some of my empire free company heads? Any thoughts on this?
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It depends entirely on what you plan to do. Remember, now that heavy weapons squads count as 1 creature on a large base, toughness 3 with 2 wounds, any strength 6 or more will remove an entire weapon base.
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Its more a blitz army :P
Hmm heavy weapon squads are bad! They get so easily instant killed! The only heavy weapon squad i use is mortars. They are awesome.
A heavy weapon squad of 3 lascannons is 105 pts. for 25 pts more you can get a vendetta. Which has 3 twinlinked lascannons and can see anything.
I use vendettas as firebases, so they just hang around the back and add firesupport. In the ending turns I sometimes put a squad in it and zoom towards an objective.
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Right. Having HWs in the normal inf is a valid and good tactic. Don't do it with every squad if you prefer to keep some regular squads mobile (I don't), keep a few mobile vet squads in Chimeras, and you have a firebase and some stuff that can move and capture.
That said, there are still separate HWTs worth taking. Mortars for example.
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If you want some squads to be mobile then add a commissar. Commissars are awesome!
Also make sure you have a squad or two as speed bumpers against massive ork attacks and such. To make sure that you get to counter attack with the before mentioned grilling platoon command.
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OK good advice :)
So if I have a heavy weapons team added, I can eek out the amount of regular soldiers, so I might be able to make an extra foot unit? This is good!
I really need to check my bank balance though, as a guard army is likely to set me back 250-300 pounds I think. Not exactly cheap!
At this rate, the nid army might be more doable....maybe lol
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Check out ebay and other sites thats how i got mine :P very cheap !
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Ill be using giftsforgeeks for the models, not GW, unless someone here can point me towards a cheaper one with free postage in the UK? However, I may need to order some odd bits from GW, eg commisar to make sure I get the correct model I want. That or from Forge world who have some brilliant commisars.
Saving money is good, but not at the expense of not getting what id like. I can pick up the codex from amaxon, but it appears to be french :icon_cry:
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I can pick up the codex from amaxon, but it appears to be french :icon_cry:
This is totally unacceptable. Bow your head in shame.
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Yes, shame on you!
Anyway, go for the Guards! They are kickass. Don´t be fooled by McKnight. He is just another Mech leaf-blower player giving the Guards a bad name. :engel:
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What leman russ would you guys suggest, just vanilla with nothing but the big gun and a lascannon?
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Depends. If its infantry killing, give it 3 heavy bolters.
A demolisher with a lascannon is also good! A s10 ord. weapon and a S9 lascannon is pretty effective AT.
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Nah. Nilla Russ doesn't get no Lascannon. He gets the triple HB treatment. Due to the new Lumbering Behemoth special rule he can spit 9 HB shots in addition to his cannon shot each turn (if he doesn't move that is). 1 or 2 of those can really hurt what they're firing at.
I have a soft spot for the Demolisher, but it is quite expensive. If you take one there are several valid options. His S10 AP2 main gun is pretty good for tank hunting and Termie killing, and a Lascannon complements both of these roles well. It also helps offset the short range of the main gun. As for Sponsons, in 4th edition most people recommended Plasma Cannons for those. Now however I would turn the Demolisher into a pure bred armor muncher. For 210 points you will get a Demolisher that has a Lascannon and 2 Multimelta sponsons besides the turret gun, giving you brutal anti-armor firepower. Alas, only at short range. So the best strategy would be to set up so you have a good chance of intercepting the heaviest opposing armor (Landraiders for example) before they reach you. If you go first be sure to move into a good spot and then pop smoke! All in all difficult to use and expensive, but I still like him. I wouldn't bother with HB or flamer sponsons on this tank, but that's just me.
Exterminator: Interesting mount for Pask, and pretty good for killing stuff up to AV13. I've written a lot about this variant in another 40K thread, take a look.
Executioner. Nice variant, but very pricey if you want sponsons. But it sure sounds good fully equipped. 3 PlasCannon shots from the main gun, 2 from the sponsons will give you five small templates per turn with S7 and AP2. The goodness will cost you 230 points though, and that's with a peashooter hull gun. If you upgrade that one to a Lascannon as well we're looking at Landraider prices.
Eradicator. Meh. Not worth it. Next!
Punisher: situational and too expensive, but fun to use. And some armies will weep. If you take it go the full distance and buy the HB sponsons for 29 dice goodness.
Vanquisher: he's being hurt by a few things: no more explosive shells and the lousy BS of 3 for his tank killing, single shot main mount. You can keep it cheap, Vanquisher / Hull Lascannon for 170 points. Hit or miss. Or you can get Pask to command this thing, at which point it gets real expensive again.
Also keep in mind it can't really go for non-vehicle targets, Vanquisher shells are a total waste against infantry (single shot, no blast).
Gosh, that got longer than I intended!
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Crimson, it is easy to buy regular IG doods on ebay
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@Aldaris.
Any chance you can furnish me with a weapons spec of these tanks? It would be a bit more helpful! Do the guard have any dakka tanks? You know, something like 3 heavy bolters and a twinlinked anti infantry gun in the turret? I seem to remember a twinlinked autocannon tank? Any Heavy bolters avaialbe? Im assuming I can add more shots with a pintle mounted heavy stubber also?
I know the regular Russ and Demolisher are both nice. I may well get one of each of these. I will need a demolisher as I occasionally play Necrons with monoliths and I do play against terminators a lot.
@Finley
Ebay how so? Is it cheap? Im afraid I dont much go into buying things off their, as I have little luck. My brother usually orders me things if I want them, but he is unlikely to want to order me hundreds of pounds of stuff.
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Just search for guard troops, there are so many that you can just bid at the price you want to pay and if it goes, no problem, just buy the next lot.
A lot of them will be assembled/part painted, which is a bit of a pain.
One lot I had to throw about 5 dudes away because the retard who owned them had glued their arms on wrong, but it was still avbout 15 dudes for a 5er. Then I just rebase them and spray them black.
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It looks like the Punisher varient has some kind of gatling turret? Surely that has a lot of shots?
It all depends on how my finances look after my cars MOT. If its cheap, then I can afford an army, If not, then not...
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It looks like the Punisher varient has some kind of gatling turret? Surely that has a lot of shots?
It all depends on how my finances look after my cars MOT. If its cheap, then I can afford an army, If not, then not...
The Exterminator is your Dakka Tank
right now I have two Demolisher and an Exterminator but still have to play a single game of 40k hmmm have to glue some guardsmen.
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Dear god more price rises on the horizon, I best make sure I get some stuff ordered soon if I am going to bother.
What does the Exterminator have Fandir? Is that the one with the gatling cannon?
EDIT:
As a way of finding out, I have stumped up and bought the book from GW. I was going to buy it elsewhere, but GW with free postage is the same price as non GW without free postage. At least I know GW are good with orders.
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Nah.
Exterminator: dual twin linked autocannons. Cheap, but S7 AP4 only. The icing here is upgrading it with Knight Commander Pask. He raises the BS to 4 and adds +1 to all armor penetration rolls of his tank, bringing his autocannons to an effective strength of 8. This is huge, as this turns the Exterminators armaments into 4 twin-linked BS4 missile launchers for anti-armor purposes. Everything not Av14 better watch out...
This is Mr. devious quality Dakka.
Punisher: Has a Heavy 20 S5 AP/- weapon. Add 3 Heavy Bolters (2 sponsons, 1 hull) and you look at 29 S5 shots per salvo. Only at BS3 admittedly, but it is great fun to throw so many dice.
This is Mr. plenty of Dakka.
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New Imperial guard kits D:
New leman russ with the new turret, autocannon and vanquisher options.
And this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120800a_99120105049_IGManticoreDeathstrike1_873x627.jpg
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AT LAST!!!!
HAHAHAHAAAA!
I could KISS you!
:-D
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I'm pretty sure my last PM to you mentioned something about killing you.
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We dont use special characters, so Pask is out.
I think that dakka tank is in! Got to be useful against Ork hordes!
Ill need a regular demolisher to fight against tough things as well, and maybe the plasma cannon varient, as the model seriously owns.
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I got myself some new tanks a while back, which I haven't out together yet.
A box of the 3 Leman Russes cheap - old style I guess, and then one each of the new Russ and the new Chimera.
How easy is it to do weapon swap options - with magnets say - like with the Empire Helstorm/Helblaster kit?
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That would be difficult, but at least for the sponsons it should be doable. You'd have to make the sponson as a whole detachable though, I don't think swapping just the guns would be easy. And you'd have to insert some kind of back piece, maybe plasticard, so you'd have a surface facing the tanks body. I dunno about the turret guns though, it's been a while since I assembled a Russ.
The turrets themselves aren't glued in place though, so they can be swapped easily.
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Surely you should be able to fasten the guns on with something like blu tack?
I think I will probably glue mine anyway, once I have number crunched some builds to see what is doable. Clearly a beast like a demolisher should be taking on heavy armour, so it really wants armour busting sponsons or non at all. Same goes for the hull gun.
Just waiting for the book now :-D
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I use demolisher cannons for anti infantry mostly.
Though I did scatter from a massive squad of necrons into a monolith, immobilising it. Was fun.
Large template, AP2, strength 10, that's a "Kill every heavily armoured person in the building" weapon. Seems a waste to use it on vehicles unless they're the only targets.
Battlecannons also serve the same purpose, but I believe they're AP3, and thus can't mince Terminators. However they usually make up for it by being much longer ranged.
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New Imperial guard kits D:
New leman russ with the new turret, autocannon and vanquisher options.
And this: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1120800a_99120105049_IGManticoreDeathstrike1_873x627.jpg
:icon_eek:
I wants one.
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I wants one.
Only one? Weaksauce.
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I have two demolishers-executioners-punishers with magnets, everywhere!
On the turret,gull,sponsors. It is really easy to put magnets in the place that you will put the weapons and then just swap. If anyone would like to see photos, it might help you not to buy different boxes for different tanks if you don t want to put them all together in the same game.
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I know what I'm doing with my graduation money now...
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I know what I'm doing with my graduation money now...
Taking out your girl to dinner and having a great night full of intercourse?
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Hahaha. :icon_lol:
Girls come and go. The Demolisher stays.
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Been there done that.
Metaphorically speaking on the last part of that.
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You had metaphoric intercourse? Like, she took two melons and showed them to you, then you handed her a cucumber, then...?
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You had metaphoric intercourse? Like, she took two melons and showed them to you, then you handed her a cucumber, then...?
Thank you. I almost fell of my chair laughing!
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I'll admit I set myself up for that one.
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You made yourself sound like a tool.
How do you have metaphorical intercourse?
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How about we all just drop it, alright?
It was a -very- bad choice of words. Imaginary might have been better.
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You made yourself sound like a tool.
How do you have metaphorical intercourse?
I thought Gneisenaus guide sounded workable.
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I don't see much talk about hellhounds, are they any good? I always thought they looked the best of any IG vehicle.
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Hellhounds are decent, though the two variants (Devil Dog and something I can't remember) are more specialized, and to my mind more useful. The Devil Dog makes quick work of almost any tank, and the other one is made to kill Space Marines and other heavy infantry.
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Hellhounds are decent, though the two variants (Devil Dog and something I can't remember) are more specialized, and to my mind more useful. The Devil Dog makes quick work of almost any tank, and the other one is made to kill Space Marines and other heavy infantry.
I think bane wolf was the name....but he suffers from the very short range. I think a single Devil Dog might come in handy against all kinds of land raiders.
My question would be about the Colossus, that mortar tank that grants no cover saves.
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Why not just get the Nova eradicator leman russ then? It has better armour save.. But i cant remember the collosus' strength
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Why not just get the Nova eradicator leman russ then? It has better armour save.. But i cant remember the collosus' strength
Me neither, I'd have to look it up before I can comment. The Eradicator Russ however is crap, that much I can tell you from memory.
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Why not just get the Nova eradicator leman russ then? It has better armour save.. But i cant remember the collosus' strength
Me neither, I'd have to look it up before I can comment. The Eradicator Russ however is crap, that much I can tell you from memory.
Agreed on the crapness of Eradicator, I never use it. Collosus st is 6 and ap3 with a large blast and 24-240 inches range, when eradicator has only range 36 and ap4, only better is armor, but with such range collusos can hide back and fire safe with barrage shells.
My favourite ordnance is medusa, works good against every body,only lacks in range. :icon_cry:
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Why not just get the Nova eradicator leman russ then? It has better armour save.. But i cant remember the collosus' strength
Me neither, I'd have to look it up before I can comment. The Eradicator Russ however is crap, that much I can tell you from memory.
Agreed on the crapness of Eradicator, I never use it. Collosus st is 6 and ap3 with a large blast and 24-240 inches range, when eradicator has only range 36 and ap4, only better is armor, but with such range collusos can hide back and fire safe with barrage shells.
My favourite ordnance is medusa, works good against every body,only lacks in range. :icon_cry:
OK. So the Colossus isn't bad, a nice relatively high-strength, marine-killin' large template. Pretty good actually. But definitely not a no-brainer. It has a tight focus, long range infantry killing. It can't really do anything else. And you have no shortage of stuff that can off infantry in a guard army.
Sooo, while the Colossus isn't a bad choice (and has an awesome model admittedly), there are some better ones in my opinon. For example the Manticore rocket battery. It needs a bit of luck to really rock, but boy, can that thing rock! Or consider the Medusa with bunker-buster shells. One of the deadliest and most reliable tank killers at long range (and the model is pretty similar to the colossus IIRC...).
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What is the range of the Medusa? There only is a Forgeworld model is there?
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Can't tell you from memory, but definitely 48" or more. It's only drawback is that it is a direct-fire gun, so you need to see (and be open to counter-fire) to bust tanks.
And yes, only a FW model for the Medusa atm. But the Manticore just was announced as a regular GW model!
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The S10 Ap2 Large blast is at 36 inches
while Aldaris was right about the S10 2d6 armor penetretion tank killer shot at 48 inches
I think with the camo netting behind some terrain you can overcome the low armor problem.
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while Aldaris was right about the S10 2d6 armor penetretion tank killer shot at 48 inches
Don't forget AP1, which is huge! It grants a bonus on the damage table, and this makes it such an efficient killer of armor. When it penetrates, it will likely hurt.
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while Aldaris was right about the S10 2d6 armor penetretion tank killer shot at 48 inches
Don't forget AP1, which is huge! It grants a bonus on the damage table, and this makes it such an efficient killer of armor. When it penetrates, it will likely hurt.
Oh, I totally forgot about that :icon_eek: St10 Ap1 +2d6 !!! I have to buy that thing. :icon_biggrin:
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Yes the Medusa with bastion breachers is totally a Maarder from ww2 :P
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And Marders are awesome.
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I am more of a Hetzer guy.
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Hetzers have a silly (though effective and cheap) design. And the remote controlled gun just annoys me. Stugs are where it's at.
The hetzer looks like a roof with a gun for gods sake.
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The name is great the tank is flat what do you Kübelwagen lover want more from a tank hunter...oh how he annoyed the crap out of me if my brother used it in combat mission games. From the allies perspective I was a Sherman Firefly friend.
The Archer design now that is stupid....a tank that fires backwards? Madness.
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It should look exactly like a stug, and be called a stug.
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Indeed, the Stugs simply scream badassery. Hetzers are ok... I guess. But Stugs is were it´s at. What needs to be done, be it tankhunting or infantry support, the Stug is the shit.
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My issue with the Medusa is you might as well buy a Demolisher and have a lascannon backup gun. Its more armoured.
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My issue with the Medusa is you might as well buy a Demolisher and have a lascannon backup gun. Its more armoured.
...And much more expensive. The Demolisher can't hold a candle to the Medusa when it comes to tank hunting. Double the range, 10 + 2D6 penetration and AP1. But yes, the armor is better, and yes, I like the Demolisher also. But the Demolisher is more a workhorse, it can do several things. The Bastion Breaker Medusa is a thoroughbred.
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Hahah I laughed at those horse metaphors! xD
StuG!!! .. the awesomemest tank.
..This thread has made me want to play some more with my IG... Shame its 200km away :(
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I prefer Collosus and Manticore for artillery. At least on paper :-D The medusa is just too difficult to decide between that and the demolisher.
How about the different Russ varients then Alderis?
I like the regular varient, the eradicator and demolisher. The punisher and plasma one are too expensive as you really want sponsons with these two. I cant realy see why I would use the autocannon tank when hydras exist though.
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A good, reliable, all round heavy support layout I often run goes something like this:
Leman Russ Squadron
+ - Leman Russ Battle Tank
- Heavy bolter
- Pair of Heavy bolters
- - - > 170
Leman Russ Squadron
+ - Leman Russ Battle Tank
- Heavy bolter
- Pair of Heavy bolters
- - - > 170
Manticore Rocket Launcher
- Heavy flamer
- - - > 160
500 points total, for plenty of S8-10 pie plates and 18 HB shots. You could save 40 points by not taking the sponsons for the Russes, I'd always, always take them though.
The only downside is you have some trouble cracking open heavyweights like Land Raiders at range, although the Manticore can get lucky.
For that, sprinkle some Lascannons into your infantry squads (not paired with a special, LasCannon is expensive enough and has poor synergy with most other weapons), get a Vendetta or two, or try out the Devildog with additional Multimelta. If you want to sped more on HS, swap one of the 'nilla Russes out for a Demolisher. Pimp up to taste.
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It should look exactly like a stug, and be called a stug.
Hey, what are we supposed to do? There's no money. We can't afford the big tanks. Smaller ones have to do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rud4-CzWmA
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Whilst nice, that wasn't a stug, and thus was ultimately disappointing.
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The biggest issue I have is tank busting armour 14 from range. Monoliths and land raiders for example, are units that are difficult in the former, and dangerous in the later, to get close to.
Maybe the Russ with the high powered tank hunting cannon, Exterminator? could be used? Obviously this should take a frontal lascannon and no sponsons, and fills a very niche role. It is pretty poor at anything else though.
The medusa with bunker busters makes a good anti tank gun but it has a less armour than a russ, and a lot less weapons options. Its the odd entry in the artillery not having a minimal range.
The deathstrike looks poor. Certainly a manticore is better most of the time. Although I suppose you can't really get much more killy than one.
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The Tank buster Russ is the Vanquisher. Nice , but not nearly as nice as the Medusa. BS3 is a drawback, and unless I am mistaken (I can't check my book right now) the Vanquisher cannon is only AP2.
ALL artillery can circumvent the minimum range by firing directly (unless it has an entry it cannot fire directly). The Medusa is an unconventional artillery piece because it has no indirect fire option.
And yes, Manticore = much better than Deathstrike.
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Screw the vanquisher! It really sucks. I've never hit with its cannon in the 4 games i've used it !
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To be fair, that gun can potentially be nasty.
IF you manage to hit, penetrate and IF you get lucky on the damage table...
The Medusa hits more often, penetrates better and yields better damage results, with a 50% chance of destroying the target outright on a penetrating hit.
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Well sure it can... But so can 3 twinlinked lascannons for a cheaper price! And it takes up a heavy slot! Bad!
But im thinking two in a squadron might have a lot of potential... but still.. there are better options!
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But im thinking two in a squadron might have a lot of potential... but still.. there are better options!
Yes, quite. A Vendetta or two should prove more effective against most tanks, and they have much greater tactical utility as well. And against those hard to crack AV14 monstrosities the Medusa takes the prize hands down. A squad of veterans in a Chimera with 3 meltas is not to be sneezed at either, in fact I'd never leave home without it. 2-3 mounted vet squads, some with plasmas, some with meltas. That's pretty much always points well spent.
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I think I still prefer the Collossus as for artillery :-D
Can anyone say marine killing firepower? I play on a very heavily urbanised table, so ignoring cover is very useful.
Due to a run of expenses this month, my guard army has been put back a few months. All the money Id put aside has been spent on various household things :(
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I think I still prefer the Collossus as for artillery :-D
Then by all means go for it. As I said, it certainly isn't a bad choice, I just prefer others.
Oh, and all ordnance barrage weapons ignore cover, at least if the object giving cover is not between the target and the center of the template at impact. Hiding behind a wall or building will do you no good if a basilisk shell falls amongst your dudes.
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Thats true Aldaris, but my main opponant will drag out measuring each tiny amount of cover to determine that his men still get cover from a brick or something. Best to avoid such arguements by having a no save at all type gun.
I was origionally planning on having a medusa and a collossus to supply my long range battery fire. This would be best of both worlds really. The problem is they are only available through forge world, so costs are high!
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Thats true Aldaris, but my main opponant will drag out measuring each tiny amount of cover to determine that his men still get cover from a brick or something. Best to avoid such arguements by having a no save at all type gun.
Oh dear. That kind of player...
I was origionally planning on having a medusa and a collossus to supply my long range battery fire. This would be best of both worlds really. The problem is they are only available through forge world, so costs are high!
Good mix, top it off with some kind of MBT (or two in a squadron) and that's a nice support section right there, albeit, as you said, an expensive one. Oh, and to get some more quasi-artillery: 1, preferably 2 mortar HW support squads. you pay 120 for two, and that's 6 mortars. You'll love them. They may not look like much on paper, but they're cheap, don't need LOS and are therefore hugely annoying.
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And they have a nice range and can sit on an objective!
Mortars are awesome!
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The other choices were two bare bones Russes, No sponsons, just a turret and frontal bolter. Need to save points on the tanks really. I really like the idea of the Punisher, but on a very rough estimate its probably not very good against anything in cover, and its debatable if its actually better than a regular russ in the open. The one with the twinlinked autocannons is interesting, but a hydra has these and is a lot cheaper.
I like the look of the Manticore too. Three blast templates at high strengh look very promising. The deathstrike on the other hand seems unwieldy and not very practical.
With the 3 battalions I was going to buy, I was planning on making 3 mortar teams, 3 autocannons and 3 missile launcher, using the two direct fire ones in my squads while having the mortars as a seperate weapons team.
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Standard russes are nothing to laugh at either, they are cheap and without the sponsons they are also mobile!
My boss told me how he finally got to use the punisher. He was up against Space marines and he said that it basically tore through a squad each turn. With that amount of shots, the SM player is bound to fail saves.
Also another good thing about it is, it doesnt have the potential of hitting your own troops. Which is quite nice sometimes!
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The Punisher becomes very expensive with heavy bolter sponsons and a stubber in the turret. All of which you want if your going to bother with his model. You can nearly end up with two nilla russes for one upgraded punisher.
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Yes it is expensive! But hey its not all about min maxing you know;)
Try it out and see what you think...... when you get the army, that is :P
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I beleive prices go up 1st of June as well ,whcih wont help me buy a guard army.
Its still on the cards, but I suspect it may take me till the tail end of this year to raise the funds now.
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The biggest issue I have is tank busting armour 14 from range. Monoliths and land raiders for example, are units that are difficult in the former, and dangerous in the later, to get close to.
Have you ever tried a HW squad full of lascannons receiveing the "Bring it down" order making the unit twin linked? Even with "Fire on my target" order you can reduce cover saves by 1. Something to consider.
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I would not advise using a HW squad full of lascannons. Too vulnerable and not flexible enough. For a pretty similar price you could have a Vendetta. Pure HW squads should be reserved for cheapo heavies like mortars.
What I would advise using however is using Lascannons in regular guard squads, without the addition of a special. 4-6 guard squads with Autocannons/ML, 4-6 with Lascannons. That's pretty frightening, can beneift from orders, can split fire a lot better and will never die due to a single salvo/artillery round.
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I generally dont do pure anti tank weapons in infantry squads, as the rest of the unit stands around helpless, or the gun is fired at something that isn't really useful.
Its a shame the old 2nd ed rule allowing special/heavy weapons to target more relevant units has never been brought back.
Autocannons are more or less the same as missile launchers in application, both being good against infantry and light tanks. So why the preference for autocannons? Is it all on the cost?
I think heavy weapon teams should take either anti infantry, or flexible weapons, simply because as guard you are likely to have tanks carrying anti tank firepower.
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I had a brief few games with my IG last year, in a mad few weeks :icon_rolleyes:
I loaded a squad or two with a Lascannon, a Plasma Gun and gave the Sgt a Plasma Pistol. That was enough to do some damge to some Eldar tanks stuff.
Surely you can equip individual squads with different types of target in mind.
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You'll definitely need artillery, and armor. Especially armor! include plenty of Leman Russ's and Chimeras in your force. I would use the Armored Fist doctrine. Strike fast and hard. That's the way I'd do it.
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You'll definitely need artillery, and armor. Especially armor! include plenty of Leman Russ's and Chimeras in your force. I would use the Armored Fist doctrine. Strike fast and hard. That's the way I'd do it.
"Armored Fist doctrine"?
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I generally dont do pure anti tank weapons in infantry squads, as the rest of the unit stands around helpless, or the gun is fired at something that isn't really useful.
It is actually one of the better roles for the guard squads as the tanks (due to big bugs) are better at smashing up infantry and if you are firing their lascannons at other tanks it is a waste of points with that battlecannon. Also consider that the guardsmen are some ablative armour for the antitank guns, a very important role in the guard army...
But seriously the prices are too much now. This is why I am now totaly constrained to human armies, buying up other companies models and converting them with parts bought from mates/ebay or maybe the rare GW purchase. The tanks are pretty unaffordavle too, I mean they take about 5 hours pay at the minimum wage (UK). This I think is the real problem with the list as otherwise whatever you chose seems to work well en mass.
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Some guard squads with lascannons have their uses. I can confirm that. Especially if placed to deliver enfilading fire and with the Company commander nearby to give those orders. :biggriin:
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Actually, the battlecannon is a fairly good antitank gun, being ordnance.
S8 with two dice to penetration where you take the highest? Yes please. Of course it has problems with AV14, but thats where the vendettas show up.
I agree on the prices. They are really expensive for such a large army!
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Since this is an IG thread I thought i'd post here. Here's a list i've written for 1,000 points. No idea if it's good, mostly models I just like or have conversion ideas for.
Command Team. Vox Caster, Carapace Armour, Medic, Sniper Rifle, 2 Bodyguards, Krak Grenades, Chimera 200 - The krak grenades are because I had 5 points left over.
Veteran Squad. Vox Caster, Grenadiers, Chimera, 2 flamers and a bigger flamer? 190
Veteran Squad, Vox Caster, Grenadiers, Chimera, 3 plasma guns? 205
3 Armoured Sentinels. 1 x Plasma Cannon, 1 x Lascannon, 1 x Heavy Flamer, Smoke Launchers. 220 - Not actually sure what smoke launchers do. The description is too look them up in a book I don't have. Figure they make it harder to shoot them?
Leman Russ, Battle Cannon, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Extra Armour, 185
Any critiscms? I imagine their will be!
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Yes, there will. Give me a few minutes...
:wink:
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Your... Leman russ is good... :P
Your command squad needs work though. And maybe your heavy flamer sentinel...
But I wont go into detail, I imagine Aldaris will do that :P
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First off: stuff like Carapace, Vox casters and other nice accessories can be modelled without actually using them ingame, as long as you tell your opponent. I've never had a problem with that.
Command squad: get rid of Carapace, Vox Caster, bodyguards, medic and krak grenades. Most of this stuff is only useful if your guys leave their tank and get personal, which they're not meant (and not equipped) to do.
If you want a sniper CCS, get snipers, not just one. A much better build:
*************** 1 HQ ***************
Company Command Squad
- Company Commander
- 4 x Veteran with Sniper rifle
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy bolter
- - - > 125
This squad does what you want: give orders and lend some fire support via sniper rifles and the Chimeras heavy weapons.
Veterans: Flamers are a waste of those guys BS of 4. Sure, it's possible, but not optimal in my opinion. Also, Grenadiers doctrine... oh well. Go for it if you want, I consider it to be a waste of points. It can be useful for your plasma vets though when their guns overheat. I'd propose this for the vets, grenadiers included. I'd seriously consider dropping it at least on the melta squad though:
Veteran Squad
- Grenadiers
- 3 x Veteran with Plasma gun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy flamer
- - - > 200
Veteran Squad
- Grenadiers
- 3 x Veteran with Meltagun
- Veteran Sergeant
+ Chimera Transport
- Multi-laser
- Heavy flamer
- - - > 185
Note that those Chimeras have Heavy Flamers as hull mounted guns instead of Heavy Bolters, as you'll be using them more aggressively.
Sentinels. If you use three single ones that's three pretty easy kill points, if you use them in a squad their weapons loadout contradicts. My proposal: take a squad of three unarmored ones and scout or flank them.
Smoke launchers can be used for one turn, they prevent any shooting from you, but give you a cover save.
Soo, my proposed Sentinel squad:
3 Scout Sentinels
- 2 x Multi-laser
- 1 x Autocannon
- - - > 110
Cheap, cheerful, annyoing, expendable. Come in flanking and shoot some tank in the ass. If they survive, repeat.
If you really, really want to go for armored sentinels, I'd propose something like this:
3 Armoured Sentinels
- 3 x Lascannon
- Camo netting
- - - > 240
Too expensive for my taste, but they have a clear job, tank hunting, and they get a 3+ save when in cover. So: plop 'em into cover and blaze away. In a pinch you can engage infantry (make sure they have no powerfists or stuff like that!!) and tank them almost indefinitely.
Leman Russ: almost good, but get rid of the extra armor. Not really needed nowadays. You want that Russ as a firebase, not a cavalry tank.
Extra stuff to consider:
a small infantry platoon. For starters, one command squad, two infantry squads, a mortar squad. Something like this:
Infantry Platoon
+ Command Squad
- Platoon Commander
- 3 x Guardsman with Flamer
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Infantry Squad
- Guardsmen Weapons Team with Autocannon
- Upgrade to Sergeant
+ Heavy Weapons Squad
- 3 x Mortar team
- - - > 225
A cheapo command squad to give some orders, 3 flamers will make a dent into anything coming too close. 2 Infantry squads with autocannons, some long range fire vs. transports and some bodies. Never a bad thing. 3 Mortars. Annoying and good. Those are Gold for their points.
Hope that helped!
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Cheers Aldaris, that's a pretty comphrensive list! I understand a bit better now! Got alot to consider :blush:
Apparently we are playing cityfight if that makes a difference. The armoured sentinels advice is my favourate, White Dwarf taught me kill points are bad! I understand why the command squad is bad but does anyone else feel that sending a commander into a warzone with a whole 4 buddies is a bit odd? Kinda feels like you're wasting a tank doing that.