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Galactic Conflict & Historical Games ... => Warhammer 40k Discussion => Topic started by: Justnorth on November 27, 2011, 02:51:03 PM
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Seeing as figures are available now, can we play with Squats?
Are the old rules still useable?
Have they been updated?
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers/Heroes/Product/Forge-Father-Huscarl.html
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers/Infantry.html
Squats were my only love in 40K, now there are nice models available to play with, is there a Squat list to use them with.
What to do for a Land train? :icon_idea:
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers/Forge-Father-Army-Deals/Product/Ultimate-Forge-Father-Deal-91-Figures-and-6-Vehicles.html
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers/Forge-Father-Army-Deals/Product/Thorins-Hammer-Forge-Father-Army-Deal.html
I like that war machine a lot. :mrgreen:
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There was something, similar to that 4-barreled cannon, that was called "Thudd-gun", wasn't there?
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The squat have been eliminated from the current fluff. They are only referenced in a couple places. First one of the space maine armors was developed to fight them. Then they were consumed by the tyranids.
There are a new race of space dwarves within the tau army. I would use the tau rules for them. Make them san alternate tripp selection if you want. Give another point of toughness and ws and make them 12 points.
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Its unfortunate that Mantric used the name Thorin. :icon_rolleyes:
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The squat have been eliminated from the current fluff. They are only referenced in a couple places. First one of the space maine armors was developed to fight them. Then they were consumed by the tyranids.
There are a new race of space dwarves within the tau army. I would use the tau rules for them. Make them san alternate tripp selection if you want. Give another point of toughness and ws and make them 12 points.
I am unsure why they did get rid of them, unless they just didnt sell [aka chaos dwarves]. They are no worse than space elves, space dark elves, space orks, space tomb kings or indeed the rumoured space skaven to me.
I still have my old 2nd ed rulebooks with photos of the squats in them, the models were certainly unique!
By all accounts on various rumour websites the Demiurg are to be in the new Tau book. Expect heavier armour/better save, relentless/slow and purposeful and power axes! Would certainly fix their lack of power weapon problem.
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but Tau doesnt need power weapons!
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Squats were my only love in 40K, now there are nice models available to play with, is there a Squat list to use them with.
lowut
(http://www.manticgames.com/ImageCache/Products/1668.1.368.368.FFFFFF.0.jpeg)
These rank as one of the worst mantic ranges, right up there with the high elves.
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I think those look quite good all reminds considered.
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Hoping a straight up Tau army can be played without dwarfs needing to be along for the ride. However, if the figures are ok, then maybe.
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If the dwarves hit the book, which I am not sure of, you could of course still use only tau. But I like the idea of Tau branching into the more eclectic army style. More races.
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I think those look quite good all reminds considered.
I think they're excellent, I like all the squat stuff that mantic are coming out with, I just hope they bring out even more options... and I think it's worthwhile looking to dredge up some Squat army list rules because it's a bloody nonsense narrowing ones mind to fit into a very limited fluff element when the playground of the 40K milieu is supposed to be the universe and other dimensions ::heretic::
Tau suck, never liked those transformer wannabees.
The Squats were never wiped out by Tyranids, they simply didn't find them all and now they're back with a funky tractorised war machine (something about it reminds me of the beloved ancient Tarantula) to slap down those ugly squishy bugs.
Squats rock !
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The demiurg look just like the old squats, so I think they just reorganized the fluff. I don't think those models are mind blowing, but it is a concept that has only limited possibilities. I think this is as good as can be expected.
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I am unsure why they did get rid of them, unless they just didnt sell [aka chaos dwarves]. They are no worse than space elves, space dark elves, space orks, space tomb kings or indeed the rumoured space skaven to me.
The Hrud. Always fun.
The Squats were problematic because they were, essentially, hairy bikers in space. And while the ethic of "Vikings in Space" and "Anne Rice's Vampires in Space" and "Romans in Space" and "Jesuits in Space" works (for some reason . . .) "hairy bikers in space" less so. A fluff reorganization goes a long way to making them work.
Really, Eldar aren't "Elves in space" - they are similar, but quite distinct, from the classic Elven imagery. Squats weren't even Dwarfs in space - they were short hairy bikers. I don't have anything against short hairy bikers, but I suspect they wouldn't be quite as appealing as some of the other, shall we say, deeper races?
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You mean like....Necrons and Nids (Necrons before the latest codex)....kill humans....must feed on flesh.
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Just use them squat minis with IG rules, problem solved. :closed-eyes: They deserve noth more than Carapace anyway, since we all know that in reality they make squat that is useful. :icon_razz:
Tau rocks, so stop being so nostalgic and give the manga kids the nod. They deserve something too. Also, nothing say "Screw hand to hand" as a pulse rifle to the face.
And better, if you really like those minis, just play Mantics own game and do not sully the glory of the 40K universe with space dwarves meant to be taken seriously.
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Nids and Necron are one thing, but Space bikers are another.
I also don't like the stunted human crap. It isn't a good fluff option.
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Space bikers are another.
Hairy space bikers. Get it right :)
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but space bikers are already possible with SM, Orks, and Eldar.
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I don't think the short hairy space bikers got the run they deserved :-(
I hope that eventually a major fluff overhaul like what happened to the necrons hit the squats and they may show up as demiurg in the next tau codex.
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I think there is enough evidence that Demiurg are going to have legs. They are credited with giving the Ion technology to the Tau. The whole thing was introduced as an Epic Homeworld homage though. Still, Homeworld was a great game.
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SOB rules could be used for Squats. Space marine armour and elite human stats should represent them fairly well.
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Gorgeous amazonian paragons of feminine humanity with Joan of Arc hairstyles /= hairy space bikers. Fluff wise, I could just never stomach it.
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SOB rules could be used for Squats. Space marine armour and elite human stats should represent them fairly well.
actually I have used this and just the regular ultra smurf codex when I still had my converted army from fantasy dwarfs.
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If the dwarves hit the book, which I am not sure of, you could of course still use only tau. But I like the idea of Tau branching into the more eclectic army style. More races.
If you think about it, it is a great way to gauge how successful a new army could be. If they release an army of some a new alien species it could go horribly wrong, but if they have had limited release under an existing book that could work out as a good idea to test the waters.
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Tau were suppose to be a force that includes other races, if I recall the fluff correctly.
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Bah humbug Demiurgs blah blah blah
Bah humbug to that Tau mange crap as well, transformer wannabees.
I'll dredge up some Squat rules from the Journals etc and bring them back to the table with a 'Space Train', Feel the pain.
The Squat Mortar shall return.
Dwarves in SPACE...
G-dubs 40k fluff is pretty bloody average, pagess of endless dross about boring humans, and wimpy elves (sorry, faggy eldar) These races need some serious space hammers stoving in their craniums and my Squats are gonna bring it, starting with a bug hunt to sort out those craven nids for ruining our space bike mechanics world.
Those mining worlds you hear about on the rim of the known universe, those are the outposts of the Squat Empire.
Come and taste the power of the Planet Cannon - Graaaahhhh, the great book of grudges creaks open and and hive fleet is penned in for destruction.
Adamantium Breakers with two handed rune axes and personal force fields, anyone for Tyranid Tiramisu?
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I find the Demiurg stuff to be much more dwarf like than the Squat garbage. The squatsnever had a big enough foothold to support REAL nostalgia for me. The idea of the Demiurg actually seems more realistic. They were the innovators that pulled the Tau from their world through trade and advanced dwarven technology.
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They do have nice looking ships for battle fleet gothic...
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Who the squats or the demiurg?
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Demiurg. Squats don't have any BFG ships as far as I'm aware.
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Demiurg do have nice looking ships, however, Squat ships would be better.
Just played a game with the new Mantic Squats and I have to say they are really lovely models in the flesh. The models I was lucky to use were very nicely painted and that goes a long way toward improving the appearance of a model but the Squats are indeed rather lovely and the war machine with the gatling storm bolters is excellent. Very handy against other infantry. Could do with a version with a big fat plasma cannon on top of it.
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Who the squats or the demiurg?
from my recent understanding they may be one in the same
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Squats are not the demiurg. Squats are abhuman, demiurg are aliens.
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Squats are also dead as shit.
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yeah rumor is tyranids (ter-a-n-ids, tye-ra-nids, or tier-a-nids?) ate them up. so a squat like army in the future may be the demiurg perhaps through tau.
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Nice to know I sold off an army of converted dead midgets! haha
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tye-ra-nids
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Squats are also dead as shit.
I don't think I like you very much.
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I don't think I like you very much.
Hey, I don't write for GW, so it's not like this was my idea!
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How did a group of planets at the galactic core get eaten by the bugs coming from out side the galaxy? Everything in between would have to go first.
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How did a group of planets at the galactic core get eaten by the bugs coming from out side the galaxy? Everything in between would have to go first.
some tendrils have gotten that far. and there have been engagements that far in like the octavious war.
(http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpg)
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I'm not saying the fluff doesn't say so but its a unlikely story even for 40k. Tyranids don't use the warp, they just float through space. Have you any idea how big are galaxy is? Just an excuse to get rid of space dwarf. No after years of people wanting squats they come back in a refined form with a fancy name
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the tyranids are extragalactic creatures, splinter fleets float around aimlessly but hive fleets move pretty fast.
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Squats are also dead as shit.
Not according to Mantis :icon_razz:
Easy enough to come up with some rules for squats as well.
I am hoping that Mantis continue to extend the range at least a little bit to offer more options for the list.
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I'm not saying the fluff doesn't say so but its a unlikely story even for 40k. Tyranids don't use the warp, they just float through space. Have you any idea how big are galaxy is? Just an excuse to get rid of space dwarf. No after years of people wanting squats they come back in a refined form with a fancy name
Well the old name is dumb as shit. It sounds like a bowel movement.
As for the tyranids they must have some sort of faster than light travel. Otherwise they would hardly be a threat at all. The hives move pretty rapidly if you look at the timeframe for the battles.
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Squats rock, just wait for (my) new rules, they might even be as broken as GW's usual shit. :icon_razz:
Tyranids don't need faster than light travel because they are essentially immortal. They can remain alive indefinitely in the vacuum of space, drifting...
...until they bump into something warm with a pulse and then all hell breaks loose.
Just because they are not doing the speed of light doesn't mean they are not moving quickly :icon_wink:
It's all relative.
Given a fair number of Squats those bugs are gonna be toast. Woohoo !
The Grudge debt must be paid.
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I read up on it in the tyranid book. While away from planetary systems, they move at faster than light speeds by harnessing the gravity wells of their target planets using these special breed ships that pull the rest of the fleet along. Once in system they slow down to a much slower rate meaning they sometimes take years to go from the edge of the system to the target worlds.
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Amendment; they slow down as they approach Squat worlds because they know they are going to get battered.
Nids in Tempura batter are the space equivalent of King Prawns, Mmmmmm... Tasty tidbits for the space dwarf culinary menu. :::cheers:::
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I've never been able to find a reference in a game book of the Squats being eaten by Tyranids. I always thought this was a throw away ("go away") answer that the Design Studio would just casually toss out whenever someone would ask them. There is a reference to their demise in the 3rd edition Ork Codex under Ghazghkull's entry, the flavor text at the bottom has him ranting about his conquests. One of those rants includes how he "crushed the stunties on Golgotha," which lead me to think that Ghazghkull's Waaagh should take the credit for their demise, not the 'nids.
Also it might be fun to take that Tyranid galaxy map posted above and try to match it up with the early 2nd edition maps to see how they overlap in regards to 'Squat space'.
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I read up on it in the tyranid book. While away from planetary systems, they move at faster than light speeds by harnessing the gravity wells of their target planets using these special breed ships that pull the rest of the fleet along. Once in system they slow down to a much slower rate meaning they sometimes take years to go from the edge of the system to the target worlds.
Still sounds totally ineffective. How are they supposed to compete against an enemy that can instantly move from one side of the galaxy to the other and communicate in the same way, when they themselves need 40 years just to leave a system?
Edit: I'm assuming they actually have to leave the system to use their technique. Which also sounds strange. Do they just attach ropes and tow the next one along like space alien rednecks?
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I've never been able to find a reference in a game book of the Squats being eaten by Tyranids. I always thought this was a throw away ("go away") answer that the Design Studio would just casually toss out whenever someone would ask them. There is a reference to their demise in the 3rd edition Ork Codex under Ghazghkull's entry, the flavor text at the bottom has him ranting about his conquests. One of those rants includes how he "crushed the stunties on Golgotha," which lead me to think that Ghazghkull's Waaagh should take the credit for their demise, not the 'nids.
Also it might be fun to take that Tyranid galaxy map posted above and try to match it up with the early 2nd edition maps to see how they overlap in regards to 'Squat space'.
My sentiments exactly.
Dwarves are a popular fantasy army but the muppets in 40K GW high command didn't think they would cross over.
Mantic however see it very differently and they are proving by their sales that Squats are indeed a popular choice on the Sci Fi menu. Of course nice miniatures and funky war machines never hurt.
Overlapping the maps is an interesting notion... :mellow:
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You are really that interested in the Squats fluff to default to them over the Demiurg? Abhuman ideas are goofy as hell, but it that is your thing you go.
I think the reintroduction of dwarf type models by GW is an opportunity to do the fluff correctly.
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This is a sci-fi fantasy universe, the thought of having no abhumans in it is goofy as hell.
So far what little I've seen of the Demiurg is not very impressive and I'd take Squats over them any day. Hopefully its just bad fan art but all I keep coming up with when searching for Demiurg is a picture of a dirty old geezer wearing his depends outside his trousers.
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/File:Demiurg_or_Squat_by_Asurael_Returns.jpg
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The entire abhuman concept is an artifact of the Rouge Trader days which are completely hit or miss. That humans would change that much over less than 10,000 years is silly. Add the terrible fluff and you have something that was a delight to kill off for GW. When you are trying to attract the mouth breathing masses of the greater Hull area it is fine to have all the killer monkeys and the like mixed in with hobbits lugging sniper rifles and biker midgets. When you are a multi-national corporation with IP to define and producing media products that out perform your core business, yes you need to make things a little less... stupid for lack of a better term.
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[rant]
Bah Humbug ............ what is it with 40K people :icon_rolleyes:
The word is ROGUE :icon_exclaim: :icon_exclaim:
Rouge is french for red, or it's that pansy powder women, or Helves, dab on their faces ...................
[/rant]
:engel:
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Isn't it more like 20-30k years or more. Plus the first explorers spent thousands of years and generation on their ships, I'd imagine they didn't look quite right once they got off the shuttle. Beyond that a lot of it probably had to do with genetic manipulation and not so much some kind Darwinian evolution, ie if you cant terra form the planet to fit the people you change the people to fit the planet. Then of course there's beastmen, which the old fluff stated were in many cases the bi-product of genetic manipulation. Even space marines have been genetically altered in affect making them abhumans.
Then there's the warping affect of Chaos which has contributed to its fare share of abhumans.
Terrible fluff? I assume your referring to the Squats. Their fluff was very good and well fleshed out unlike most of the other major abhumans like ratlings and ogryns which had and still have nothing. I think their storyline or fluff had actually become to extensive, for a while it seemed like White Dwarf was adding something new to the Squats Imperial arsenal every month. GW needed to make a decision to either start fully supporting them as their own stand alone army/race or drop them.
If you didn't like their old fluff you certainly won't like their new fluff, they're just going from technologically inclined lackeys of the Empire of Man to technologically inclined lackeys of the Tau (with a name change). If GW really wants to resurrect Space Dwarfs then they should do it as a fully supported stand alone race and not some side show squad of some other alien's army.
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They won't ever be a stand alone race. The Tau give the opportunity to introduce many new ideas within one book. I would love to see the new book renamed to move further from the Tau as the head honchos. The Demiurg were responsible for much of the technology and are higher than the tau as a whole.
Also, the Squats were founded around 15,000 or so if I recall. Thats less than 30,000 years and probably at least 5000 years from any meaningful divergence, though you bring up a great point with the chaos warping. Doesn't escape from the silly abhuman concept. Plus the name is retarded. Sounds like a bowel movement.
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I honestly don't care weather GW decides squats are worth redoing as their own codex or not. even if the do come out under the stupid space commies I'm still gonna call them squats and I got my space wolf codex to feild them as no matter how much gw screws with my midget space bikers!
hell I might even losen up and get me some of them Mantic Forgefathers eventually.
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They won't ever be a stand alone race. The Tau give the opportunity to introduce many new ideas within one book. I would love to see the new book renamed to move further from the Tau as the head honchos. The Demiurg were responsible for much of the technology and are higher than the tau as a whole.
That sounds like a great idea to me. It sounds like Dogs of War in space. But I'd fear it would meet the same fate as the Dogs of War army has in WHF.
"higher than the tau" Must be the hydroponics technology.
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LOL nice! :|
I meant technologically!
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Here is the source of why the squats were removed, what happened, and why they are stupid.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060129002420/http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic/forum_b/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2532&whichpage=3
Scroll down til you reach the post by jervis.
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I must've read that 9 time since I started the hobby hahaha and I do exactlty what jervis says. I just bought up a bunch of squats on ebay and now I'm looking at my new guard army. haha I love this little guys even if they look as silly as orks.
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Hey Justnorth, weren't you one of the guys preferring metal miniatures?
I'm asking because Hasslefree has some SciFi-Dwarfs called Grymn. Check them out here: http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/catalog.php
Don't know whether you like them, but they are not too expensive for metal.
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Hey Justnorth, weren't you one of the guys preferring metal miniatures?
I'm asking because Hasslefree has some SciFi-Dwarfs called Grymn. Check them out here: http://www.hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/catalog.php
Don't know whether you like them, but they are not too expensive for metal.
:-o pretty cool. i might have to greenstuff some beards ......
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No need, Mantic have a bunch more stuff coming out for their squats in the near future, SQUATS ARE HERE TO STAY so get used to it people, we will be re taking a big chunk of the known universe, watch this space, (hah-- watch this 'Space'-- rotflam)
I Love You Mantic, the only race that I ever truly adored in 40K is coming back in spades yeah baby
SQUAT-TASTIC :mrgreen:
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New Models are COMING
Mwah har har har ...
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=51903
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"Help, I think that chili gave me the squats!"
:evil:
Anyway, I found another reference to Ghazghkull defeating the squats in the current Ork codex (page 24, The Battle of Golgotha). Perhaps this will be incorporated into whatever may eventually appear as background for the Demiurg?
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Stop resetting the Squat Clock, you guys!
That is all.
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The battle for golgotha was a epic battle report from WD years ago. Yarrick was in it and got captured.
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It just keeps getting better, Squats are back in very very BIG way...
WooHoo :biggriin: :::cheers::: :mrgreen: :icon_mrgreen:
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Advance-Orders/Advanced-Orders-Forge-Fathers/Product/Forge-Father-Krags-Tactical-Upgrade-Army-Deal.html
•FREE Printed Warpath Rules
•10 x Metal Drakkarim
•2 x Mjolnir Rocket Launcher
•2 x Dragon Breath Flamethrower
•All-new metal legs and enclosed Helmets
•20 x Plastic Steel Warriors
•Krag's Veteran Upgrade Kit includes 2 Rocket Launchers, Dragon Breath Flamethrower, Enclosed Helmets and 8 metal torsos
•Spare Heads, Grenades and Commander Options
•1 x Extra Set of Enclosed Helmets
•25mm Round bases
30 awesome squat models for £50 quid, it's Lush. :::cheers::: :eusa_clap: :biggriin: :biggriin:
Squats are back BIG TIME and they mean business.
Weapons teams on board now, the Drakkarim
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers/Infantry/Product/Forge-Father-Drakkarim-Team.html
•5 x Metal Drakkarim Figures:
•4 x Metal enclosed helmets
•5 x Metal Legs
•1 x Metal Torso with Rocket Launcher
•4 x Metal Torso
•2 x Metal Rifles
•1 x Metal Dragon’s Breath Flame thrower
•1 x Commander Pistol and comms device
•Plastic Round Mantic Bases
£3 quid a model isn't cheap but the models are lovely and the extra firepower is what will make them genuinely competitive.
At last serious infantry level firepower to take on mass infantry and tanks/monsters, lovely miniatures yehar
Anyone for BBQ Tyranid? :icon_mrgreen:
Squats are BACK baby Yeah :::cheers:::
Here's to swimmin, with little hairy space women. ::heretic::
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Anyway, I found another reference to Ghazghkull defeating the squats in the current Ork codex (page 24, The Battle of Golgotha). Perhaps this will be incorporated into whatever may eventually appear as background for the Demiurg?
Every indication is that the squats are in no way connected to Demiurg. They are supposed to be their own race and not some sort of abhuman.
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Stop resetting the Squat Clock, you guys!
That is all.
Too late, the new clock is short and stout :icon_razz:
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More pain is coming for those who would defy the mighty Squats.
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Warpath/Forge-Fathers/Infantry/Product/Forge-Father-Stormrage-Veterans-5-Figures.html
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Those models aren't bad really. Not super stunning, but I am not sure what more you can really do with dwarves in space!
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Give them booster seats and go for a short ride ............... :engel:
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No need, Mantic have a bunch more stuff coming out for their squats in the near future, SQUATS ARE HERE TO STAY so get used to it people, we will be re taking a big chunk of the known universe, watch this space, (hah-- watch this 'Space'-- rotflam)
I Love You Mantic, the only race that I ever truly adored in 40K is coming back in spades yeah baby
SQUAT-TASTIC :mrgreen:
All that notwithstanding, have you seen this? Just FYI. :-)
http://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/?p=49968
To my knowledge, Mantic doesn't have a walker, nor the intention of making one.
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:icon_eek:
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... :engel:
Squat walker Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Must have 2...
Most excellent Gneisanau :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
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Squat Dreadnought on the way, the latest newsletter has a line drawing of it, massive hammer in the rigft hand and a big shooty weapon twin linked by the look of it, in the left hand.
The Mighty Squat-nought. Lol
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I think I'm going to take the plunge and get some of the mantic Squats..... What codex should I use?
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Will you be getting a Squat-nought?
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not sure...... I want to but I play rarely and I'm a terrible painter so I'm not sure if it is a worthy investment
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Pay someone else to paint it for you.
There are plenty of reasonably priced options on the net who will make it look spectacular for you.