Warhammer-Empire.com
The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Topic started by: Countwarlord on April 29, 2012, 08:27:44 PM
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I have posted 3 other tactica posts, not because I wanna brag or show off my ability, I'm well aware that I'm certainly not the best player or even remotely close, but that I want to help people get the most out of the new Empire book, and taking advantage of the crazy amount of games I play (my friends love to try to pick on the 8th Ed Empire) I want to help my fellow Elector Counts, who haven't had the chance to play many games, but down to the meat of the potato I'll be covering all of our units, including all the characters. FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!! :::cheers:::
I won't be stating how any unit is more useful than another I'll simply put what their best at, what they are ok at, and what they are bad at, Empire gives way too many options (I know a guy at the mall where I live who can beat Elves with a BS shooting heavy list :dry:) to make a bog standard list.
Core: You know them, you love them, you gotta field them. Core is core what do they bring? Human stat-lines and an insane level of options, lets get started.
Halberdiers: Ah the ever humble Halberd +1S in a unit that is still dirt cheap, able to dish out an insane level of S4 hits, and can die by the truckload without you caring, bad news?? Shooting of all kinds totally turns these fellows into Swiss cheese, be it arrows, bolts, bullets, and even rocks, BS shooting rips these guys apart, but not nearly as bad as Elite Infantry....... The speed that WoC infantry can rip Halberds into shreds is alarming, Temple Guard, Black Orcs, Bestigors, any Special infantry will grind our units so hard its ridiculous, don't plan on engaging these units unless you have a nasty trick up your sleeve.
What are they Great at? Being S4, Being cheap, dying instead of your expensive troops.
What are they Ok at? Fighting cheaper troops, having Steadfast.
What are they Bad at? Taking arrows, surviving against Elite troops.
Spearmen: Our cheapest unit, and yet not our worst, great for hordes and toss a few buffs (Beasts lore sig, and Mindrazor are the best) and they become insane, Toss in a WP 5+ Ward and they become a maddening tarpit, though just as bad at taking shots as Halberdiers, and their punch against armor is ridiculously little, just don't expect them to grind out Knights of The Realm any time soon.
What are they Great at? Being cheap, getting buffs, being Hordes.
What are they Ok at? having Steadfast, keeping ranks.
What are they Bad at? Fighting armor, taking arrows, not dying.
Swordsmen: Our answer to those WS 4 core in other armies (pack of cheaters I say) 7 points may seem too much for this unit, but just think of it as already paying for the shield in a Halberd unit and WS 4 means they will be hitting most other infantry on 3's instead of wounding most other infantry on 3's, and given that WP's let us reroll both rolls its not much difference, though Halberds are still better in almost every case, (especially armor) however they make great detachments, as you won't require to have many numbers, and still getting the WP buffs, and all the battlefield psychology, Detachments are a home run with this unit.
What are they Great at? Hitting things, being Detachments, Having Shields.
What are they Ok at? Having buffs, surviving longer than spearmen, not getting hit on 3's.
What are they Bad at? Making Parry saves, Having steadfast, being a parent unit, hurting armor.
Free Company: Ah the old mixed bag.....6 points for an extra attack, these boys are gonna live fast and die young, remember that if you field these guys NEVER expect them to live, as such should only be taken in small numbers, but to be fairly honest the only way that these guys can be decent is with buffs, and your buffs are better off elsewhere, they have a place just not a very obvious one.
What are they Great at? Having more attacks, sacrificing themselves, being cheap.
What are they Ok at? Fighting cheaper troops.
What are they Bad at? surviving, being better than other core troops, not getting shot at.
Handgunners: Empire's answer to big strong Vikings, mutant Beastmen, and crazy Orcs.....Gunpowder the worlds great equalizer.....Has seen better days, better days and cheaper troops, however their place is still useful in the Empire, great for taking out the more armored troops, and Cavalry units that aren't stupid enough to get within 24 inches of your HelBlaster, alas BS 3 and Move or Fire will cause you much frustration, and there are few ways to improve your odds of hitting and no way to let them move and fire, but they can be Detachments and they are no worse than the average human in combat, also the special weapons their champions can take add a little more bang for your buck, use them as detachments for your Halberdiers to give them some retaliation against the inevitable shots that will come their way.
What are they Great at? Shooting Bretonnian and other T3 Cavalry, thinning out armored and Elite troops.
What are they Ok at? Hitting things with their guns, being Detachments, not being worse than normal humans.
What are they Bad at? Being mobile, surviving, being cheap.
Crossbowmen: Empire has every other ranged option (besides rocks) so why not a crossbow? Truth be told they aren't that bad their 30 inch range helps them edge out alot of other shooting, and they are no worse at hitting then their gun toting cousins, unfortunately they aren't any better either and not any less expensive, they lack armor piercing, but that extra range will make cavalry think twice before setting up a charge, and they are still S4, throw in Enchanted Blades and suddenly.....Your doing alright.
What are they Great at? Hitting other ranged guys before they can shoot back, thinning out everything from Orcs to Ogres.
What are they Ok at? see Handgunners.
What are they Bad at? see Handgunners.
Archers: 7 points for an arrow.....Well could be worse, and they Skirmish!! Great for popping a few pot shots at anything and everything, your enemies will feel the sheer annoyance factor of killing 2 guys a turn while you laugh at them for dying to such a weak unit, getting to be detachments is awesome too, but where they shine is bunkering Wizards and seeing deployments, being able to take small cheap units allows them to be deployed first instead of your actual battle plan, and Wizards hiding behind huge infantry blocks?! Golden.
What are they Great at? Hiding Wizards, seeing deployments, being annoying.
What are they Ok at? Shooting things, not getting hit with shots.
What are they Bad at? surviving, not getting hit with magic missiles.
Knightly Orders: You know the drill here. Knights, Heroic charges, lots of armor, horses, chivalry, all that mess and they are dirt cheap weighing in at 22 points with any weapon selection, However only one weapon selection matters, Great weapons.....Be warned your not Bretonnia, S3 and Lances do not mix, GW's are mandatory to grind out anything and everything, as such they won't live nearly as long as other Knights, and any other GW or flail using unit will smash you into scrap metal, (and heaven help you if you get charged by any other cav) so if you take these units take small units for combo charges, and on the fly grinders, and the ever popular suicide bomb. (Characters aren't recommended in this unit)
What are they Great at? Making armor saves, being cheap, grinding, sacrificing themselves.
What are they Ok at? Fighting other Cavalry, combo charges.
What are they Bad at? Being better than other cavalry units, functioning on their own, attacking first, using Lances, taking charges from other Cavalry.
Inner Circle Knights: The big brother of our lovable suicide shinies, 25 points nets you S4, which is amazing in every way, as S4 will help them grind anything from marauders, to trolls, and daemons, bad news is you can only have one unit, this single difference makes their strategy totally opposite of their cheaper counterpart, Lances, lances, and more lances are the only thing you should be putting on these Knights, as the S4 and 1+ AS will keep them swinging and grinding, and going last with a reduced save is a very bad thing with a expensive unit you can only have one of, if you plan on taking this unit commit, as a small unit is wasting the serious potential that these Knights have, and characters are very recommended, WP's are near mandatory.
What are they Great at? Being insanely good for their points, making armor saves, being S4 and having Lances, breaking things on the charge, getting characters to the action, destroying other cavalry.
What are they Ok at? Surviving S5-6 hits, passing Strength tests, grinding things after the charge, surviving a charge from other Cav.
What are they Bad at? Using great weapons, not getting targeted by Lore of Metal spells.
Finished with the Core and now to the Special, a fair amount of new and great choices puts special on the map for Empire.
Greatswords: The GW toting beard men haven't changed much this edition, still in Full Plate, Still Stubborn, Still S3 and biting off way more than they can chew, these guys are gonna die by the truckload, good news is they will kill by the boatload, grind any light infantry, and won't wimp out from a fluffed round of combat, and they are great at bunkering your General or BSB, but in order to use their exclusive housing service for your characters your gonna have to commit, as in 30+ that gets very expensive, just make sure you get them ready for anything, as they are meant to die horrible deaths while dishing out S5, small units make great speed bumps.
What are they Great at? Grinding light infantry into dust, making armor saves against troops that totally suck, not running, dying when you want something else to live, stopping WoC and Ogres from dicing up your more important things.
What are they Ok at? Killing armored troops, holding out against other GW users, bunkering characters.
What are they Bad at? Going first, being S4, having more than 3T, getting into a fight where the 4+ AS actually matters, Being cheap.
Demigryph Knights: A chicken hawk on mega steroids, coming in at 58 points making them a very close contender for cheapest MC unit in the game, (a unit of 3 with full command costs 9 points more than a unit of 3 bret peg Knights with full command) but don't mistake cheap for lousy, a 1+ AS and 3 wounds makes them very hard to kill even at T3, and they come with a punch too 3 WS 4, S5 armor piercing hits, (and stomps) makes this beast really nasty and able to grind down any infantry unit, add an IC Knight on top with a lance and your doing pretty good, you can take Halberds but they are not recommended, as being only T3 makes your 1+ save essential to survive.
What are they Great at? Earning way more than their point cost, destroying any infantry unit, killing off alot of cavalry units, not dying, being cheap for what you get.
What are they Ok at? killing off hordes, taking GW's to the face, not needing characters.
What are they Bad at? Not headbutting cannonballs, being T4 like the mount, surviving Lore of Metal spells.
Reiksguard Knights: An IC lance Knight and for 2 extra points you get to be stubborn.....Thats right a 1+ AS and stubborn, the Bret kids are weeping with envy, these Knights make an Insane mobile anvil, great for taking a charge and staying alive to talk about it until you flank them with another unit, some people like to take them in units of 5-7 I don't recommend it, as the kind of charges these guys will be taking are far too brutal for 5-7 to be viable, go big or go character support, while they are IC knights, and also stubborn, and you take more than one unit, bad news is their stubborn makes them even more of a target for ranged attacks as nobody wants to engage a stubborn 1+ AS.
What are they Great at? See Inner Circle Knight then add the fact that they are Stubborn.
What are they Ok at? See Inner Circle Knight then add the fact that they are Stubborn.
What are they Bad at? See Inner Circle Knight then add the fact that they are Stubborn.
Huntsmen: Think special archers but you payed 4 points for scout, thats pretty much it.
What are they Great at? Being annoying, being cheap.
What are they Ok at? Killing war machines.
What are they Bad at? Surviving longer than Turn 2.
Pistoliers: Our cowboys have seen better days for sure, a harassment unit that is meant to be expendable doesn't mix well with expensive. They are great at making pot shots from 6 inches away, bad news is they will most likely never get withing 6 inches and stay alive long enough to shoot. Take them for annoyance and war machine hunting.
What are they Great at? Being fast, moving and shooting, having guns, being annoying.
What are they Ok at? Killing war machines, killing other war machine hunters.
What are they Bad at? Hitting things with their shots, surviving, being cheap.
Outriders: 1 point less than a normal Knight gets you a unit that is much more lousy in combat, but has 3 handgun shots at BS 4, easily some of the best BS shooting in our entire army, what do I need to say take them, make a vanguard move and unload, watchout for return fire magical or otherwise, as your move or Fire rule will leave you lacking in mobility.
What are they Great at? Shooting the socks off of anything not Empire, hitting with their shots, being cheaper than Handgunners on a shot for shot basis.
What are they Ok at? Being cheap, staying out of close combat.
What are they Bad at? Not getting shot at after they shoot, having a save that matters.
Great Cannon: Ah our ever amazing cannon. What can I say?? It kills monsters, cavalry, and even other war machines, take it....Take it, take it take it.
What are they Great at? Killing any type of single target, hitting at S10, doing d6 wounds.
What are they Ok at? Not misfiring, firing grapeshot, being cheap.
What are they Bad at? Fighting war machine hunters.
Mortar: The same as it always was.....except S2, same rules apply throw it in huge blocks of wimpy troops and it still earns its points.......eventually.
What are they Great at? Hitting things, taking advantage of the large template, destroying a unit after you hit it with a Toughness debuff.
What are they Ok at? Causing wounds against wimpy troops, not misfiring
What are they Bad at? Being cheap like it used to, being not totally useless against T4 or armor.
Flagellants: Crazy people make a good suicide bomb, toss in unbreakable and frenzy flails and they can mess things up, don't consider them as a speed bump think of them as a bear trap....Hurts really really bad when you step in it, not so much after, yea they can martyr and a War Alter near a large unit is still very awesome, just not as awesome as they used to be, though WS 3 helps against WoC.
What are they Great at? Passing break tests, hitting with alot of S5 attacks, taking charges.
What are they Ok at? Functioning in large units.
What are they Bad at? Getting bonuses from Martyr, being useful after the first round of combat.
This is the end of Part 1, part 2 will sum up the rare and characters in our armies.
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Very ammusing and not totally opinion driven
Well done, and Im looking forward to part 2 now (especially to see the opinons on Characters since I never take them.)
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Very ammusing and not totally opinion driven
Well done, and Im looking forward to part 2 now (especially to see the opinons on Characters since I never take them.)
Thanks :::cheers::: Like I said alot of games and alot of learning, at first my OK and VC friends grinded me into the dirt, now I own them. :mrgreen:
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What are they Bad at? surviving, not getting hit with magic missiles.
made me really laugh for some reason.
nice write up! il be sure to suggest this next time someone thats super new asks what is what (happens at least twice a week)
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What are they Bad at? surviving, not getting hit with magic missiles.
made me really laugh for some reason.
nice write up! il be sure to suggest this next time someone thats super new asks what is what (happens at least twice a week)
It made you laugh because it's funny and true, :biggriin: and thanks. :::cheers:::
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Very informative. Now I know that you live at the mall. :icon_biggrin:
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Very informative. Now I know that you live at the mall. :icon_biggrin:
Not so much the mall, :icon_lol: my weekends are free pretty often and my friends like to come over and get whipped by my mustache wearing conquistadors. :biggriin:
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Great read! Thanks. :::cheers:::
Is it true that warrior priests can join flagellants now?
Flagellants: Crazy people make a good suicide bomb, toss in unbreakable and frenzy flails and they can mess things up, don't consider them as a speed bump think of them as a bear trap....Hurts really really bad when you step in it, not so much after, yea they can martyr and a WP tossed in with a large unit is still very awesome, just not as awesome as they used to be, though WS 3 helps against WoC.
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yes they can there is no rule that prevents it.
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Knights...
What are they Bad at? Being better than other cavalry units, functioning on their own, attacking first, using Lances, taking charges from other Cavalry.
I played Bretonnia today. His 9 Questing Knights charged my 10 White Wolves. His 4 Peg Knights charged my other unit of 10 White Wolves. His Realm charged my 10 IC Knights Panther. His 6 Grail Charged My 4 DG Knights, in the rear.
He broke zero units, I mashed his face in on all accounts.
Full plate beats Bretonnian lady saves. Knights of the White Wolf are absolutely devistateing against str 3 basic units, or even str 4 units to be honest. Knights of the Realm? They have "Knightmares" about my White Wolves. :)
Oh, and one more thing...
Start useing Lore of Shadow, laugh as your knights become unstoppable.
:)
-- Greg
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They aren't bad at defense so that isn't a surprise also normal KO's don't beat other cavalry unless they charge with lances or use GW's, and thus lower that full plate save, also Lore of Shadow makes anything unstoppable. :biggriin:
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Also dude Peg Knights can't beat 10 of any cavalry except TK skeletal horsemen, and 6 grail Knights isn't enough for anything, anyone that takes less than 6 Grails Knights is just asking you to collect free VP, also QK will die to any non GW unit of cavalry as they go last and have a garbage 3+ save.
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Oh, he had more. I just melted face for the first 2 turns with my shooting Hellblasters and a few other small arms fire shots. That is what he actually got to melee with. He had an Errant Unit charge my Tank, they bounced off, then the next round got ground to death. Thats how the DGs got flanked, they 1 rounded the Errant along with the tank, and the overrun pushed them into a spot that was supriseing, to say the least. I rolled max distance.
In a 3k battle I had FIVE units with Full Plate on horseback. Thats alot of 1+ blocks of metal to deal with.
The point I am trying to make is that Knights should always be your core units anymore. They are simply too much to deal with. Especially with Lore of Shadow.
:)
-- Greg
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Oh I'm not arguing that lol not at all, :biggriin: I have a 2.5k "Dread Knights" list that has destroyed all of my friends in every game lol
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Knights too much to deal with? In which universe? There's at least as much stuff that helps to penetrate or ignore armour as there is against weedy infantry, you're often 3 CR behind to start with and better armour but less wounds is a wash.
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Very good guide and look forward to part two!
I personally feel that GW's are still better for IC Knights. It's not down to the survivability, it's down to how combat works with them. Most combats will easily last more than one turn and and while S4 is ok it's nothing special for what is a killy support unit. Also the mobility enables them to pick the target slightly easier so they don't need to worry as much about high S attacks.
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Very good guide and look forward to part two!
I personally feel that GW's are still better for IC Knights. It's not down to the survivability, it's down to how combat works with them. Most combats will easily last more than one turn and and while S4 is ok it's nothing special for what is a killy support unit. Also the mobility enables them to pick the target slightly easier so they don't need to worry as much about high S attacks.
Thanks part 2 is already out, and on the GW thing, trust me when I say you don't need them with a WP reroll wounds you can easily make S4 just as good as GW's, and you will rarely encounter a heavily armored foe with alot of ranks, if you do they won't hit hard enough to take out your 1+ save. All in all Lances are just better but if you run them with no characters id take GW's.
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yes they can there is no rule that prevents it.
Check your BRB p. 78
Flaggellants are Unbreakable, warrior priests are not, therefore the priest cannot join the flags, simple as.
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ah sorry never had much experience with unbreakable except undead.
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Woot'fer'da tactica!
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Hope that means something good? :-)
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ah sorry never had much experience with unbreakable except undead.
Or much experience with Empire methinks, except what you read on the Interwebz.
yes they can there is no rule that prevents it.
Check your BRB p. 78
Flaggellants are Unbreakable, warrior priests are not, therefore the priest cannot join the flags, simple as.
I'm not sure there has been any rule book reading going on, just saying.
Noght
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You thinkz what you want to.
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from france
i hoppe you will make a lot tactica two insterest me at acttical on all spell and on one one magical item.
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from france
i hoppe you will make a lot tactica two insterest me at acttical on all spell and on one one magical item.
Only if someone else did the work for Count Cutty and Pasty to copy. I wonder if the Site went down due to too much "cutting and pasting" going on? Maybe a virus due to an infected link? Nah, prolly not, makes you wonder though.
Here's a link regarding Magic Lores: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=42336.0
Noght
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Noght, werent you one of those people who were screaming ''repent and your sins shall be forgiven!''?
He said sorry, so were is the forgiveness?
Give it a rest already :icon_mrgreen:
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He has a point, Noght .... and a sig with at least a soupcon of irony ....
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I'm sorry, but I missed the part where he showed genuine contrition and wasn't passive-aggressively trying to justify himself by screaming "I'll never have a fair trial!", so can someone point that out? Until then, I think Noght is well within his rights to make damn sure that people know what this guy's M.O. is.
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So what he will have this to haunt him for the rest of his life in this forum?
He will post something and the rest of us are going to say: ''where did you copied that from?''
If thats the case then why not ban him in the first place or even better, place a stamp on his sig or something saying: Attention-copy-paster .
what Noght is doing is ridiculous and has to stop.
I remember very well certain people saying: ''admit, say you are sorry, and thats the end of it, we are gonna forget it ever happened''
He did admit (in a weird way), he did apologised (after a lot of shouting), so now its time for those people who were acting so ''ethical'' to keep their end of the bargain.
rothgar-check again, he stopped the excusses in the end.
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Fair enough, then. I do admit I tuned him out after a while.
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what Noght is doing is ridiculous and has to stop.
I remember very well certain people saying: ''admit, say you are sorry, and thats the end of it, we are gonna forget it ever happened''
He did admit (in a weird way), he did apologised (after a lot of shouting), so now its time for those people who were acting so ''ethical'' to keep their end of the bargain.
rothgar-check again, he stopped the excusses in the end.
It was a conditional apology at best and then he immediately walked back from it. Besides he PM'd me and I told him that it was a good start of an apology but he needed to finish it and he retracted it (because he's still standing by his excuse that he did in fact type both of those Tactica and that it was the punctuation that was the problem).
Go back and read post #90 in this Thread: http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=42446.75
The thing that offended me more than the Plagiarizing or the "lying" about it was the gall to actually respond to each comment regarding his "work" as if he was the expert. Arguing with Rothgar and you about Beastmen Tactica is an example, seriously? Go read the first page of this thread:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=42442.0 knowing what you know now and tell me if it doesn't annoy the living hell out of you.
And then of course this happens (page 2 of High Elf Tactica):
Oh shut up, Battlekruse. I think the last 2000 German federal ministers were accused of plagiarizing and had to take their hats. A hefty chunk of the economy works because they either stole or copied something. The ECB and FED work on the principle of copying banknotes and fiat money on their computers and call it a BIP increase. :icon_evil:
What matters is that the Count starts a good discussion that we can all profit from, and I'm sure he did no such thing as you think.
I kind of think this is the problem that he caused quite frankly.
Noght
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As an observer of this unfolding saga I've got to say I understand Noght's frustration. Countwarlord has seemingly offered the classic non-apology. If someone can link to a post of his with a clear apology or legitimate explanation I will concede utterly.
As for how we move on if such a thing is not forthcoming? I may well just skip past Countwarlord's posts and make no reference to them until he does, at which point I will commend him for his honesty and state I hope he has learnt something. I all likelehood I will make no further reference to it
As [I am] a fairly infrequent poster I doubt my ignoring his posts will wound him to the core but frankly I think non-attributed copying is damaging to the rep of an excellent forum.
He has a point, Noght .... and a sig with at least a soupcon of irony ....
As a complete digression not enough people use the word soupcon these days. My commendation to Darknight. :eusa_clap:
It's like the word purveyed. More goods need to be purveyed . . . by purveyors . . . . :mrgreen:
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Your signature is hilarious if you look at this topic.
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Your signature is hilarious if you look at this topic.
Moi? I have made no personal attacks. I have stated I will stand corrected if someone can direct me to an apology or a reason for a serious accusation. I've also stated when such a thing is forthcoming I'm prepared to move on. In the interim I've said I'll just disengage rather than get into any attacks. Am really not sure where the amusement comes from Obi!
MODIFY! - Or is it just with the topic in general? Oh I'm so confused!
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I'm with Noght on this one - the kid is very annoying and ethically suspect for posting other's work as his own.
Next he'll be posting a link to CoolMiniorNot and telling us he painted everything on the site.
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Leave him alone. What difference does it make who wrote the tactica? The work he did or did not copy from another website is not copyrighted.
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People need to drop that line of argument - it is simply not true http://womeninbusiness.about.com/od/copyrightlaws/f/FAQlaw-autocr.htm
And, even if it were, the fact something is legal does not make it acceptable. It is legal for someone to participate in the Trading Post and write "Send me the Steam Tank and I will look to see if I have any Teutogen Guard to send you; I could have about twenty" and then to receive the Steam Tank and write back and say "I looked - I don't have any Teutogen Guard to send you; I said I would look and I could have, and I did look but I don't have any and I can't send you 'em." It would, however, be immoral and wrong and deceptive.
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It doesn't matter if it's not copyrighted. I have seen excellent pieces written on this site. I doubt they're copyrighted.
If I went to another forum and said:
"Hey I wrote this great article" and did a wholesale lifting of some of the forum member's writing it's still passing off someone else's work as my own. That's just wrong.
However if I raised a topic along the lines of: " I was on x site [insert link] where they have tacticas on y" what do you think? Are they good? Do they reflect your experiences? I agree with paragraphs a,b,c but on paragraph d I reckon [insert original contribution] because [insert original contribution].
Stimulates debate, acknowledges sources, contains original thought but circumvents the need for a mass new tactica and we all drink lemonade . . . .
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Leave him alone. What difference does it make who wrote the tactica? The work he did or did not copy from another website is not copyrighted.
Because it discourages the original posters from posting again. If it doesn't matter who wrote the tactica, than why is he so eager to take credit for them and bask in the glory? A simple "Hey guys, check out these tacticas I found..." would have solved this whole issue at the start.
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Here's what I posted a while back when this started:
Re: Links to all my Tactica's
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2012, 01:20:19 AM »Son, you plagiarised everything and then pulled the "aw shucks" routine. It's serious whether you want to be "concerned" or not. All's you had to do was "source" the information, "Hey, I found this great tactica, let's discuss it because I find it to be extremely insightful...." and none of this happens.
Admit it, Aplogize (for real without the "Oh woe is me" stuff), and provide attribution, Done.
With regards to this nonsence, Billy has been playing Defense for the lad and poking me since this whole thing started, whatever. His next relevant post will be his first.
Noght, werent you one of those people who were screaming ''repent and your sins shall be forgiven!''?
He said sorry, so were is the forgiveness?
Give it a rest already :icon_mrgreen:
Noght
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You know what's helping the situation? None of this. Justified or not it is dragging on for way too long.
No one cares anymore, lets all go back to business as usual.
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I think it's fairly evident at least some of us care, because this is NOT OK, and it should NOT be condoned. Until he 'fesses up and apologizes, the blacklisting will continue.
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from france
soupcons is well use in my tongue. but shit what a disapointement and i spend half a day scanning and emailing the copy of chaos dwarf for "his" tactica
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Ok...
Lets ban him from the forums then.
I mean it, why not?
He did something that was so bad that has caused all this unrest where this should have ended when his topic was locked. Why not ban him and be done with it since according to you guys he does not apologise ''properly''.
Noght: Yeah i played defence for him I dont deny it, it seemed weird to me seeing so many grown ups picking on a 19 year old like he just killed somebody. Plagiarism is bad. ok we got it. So either ban him or stop acting like a kid. It IS that simple.
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Are we in The Electors' Forum, or in The Electors' Courtyard?
I have a doubt now.
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Supposing we were in The Electors' Forum.
I'm glad that Countwarlord took the time to post several tactical threads.
I can read that all these threads have been greeted with warm thanks, which leads me to assume that they were useful.
Still, I feel that more detailed analysis could be done, so everything that encourages members to develop such analysis should be done.
I'd like Countwarlord to keep working, and I'm eager to encourage other members to participate in a similar depth to build up tactical awareness.
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Now, supposing we were in The Electors' Courtyard.
It seems that Countwarlord tried to gain fame with some work which was partly copy/pasted/retyped.
Note: helping to spread interesting non-copyrighted material is a good thing per se.
Note: as long as the pursuit of someone's fame allows someone else to improve his tactical knowledge, I'm happy to praise that person. In the same way that I'm prepared to vote for a political badass as long as his search for power meets my interests.
So far, nothing wrong.
However, he mentioned that he deserved all the credit for it, when proof has been brought that he copy/pasted or retyped a significant part of it.
That's a sin for Christians, and many readers seem to have a Christian background (note: it could be that in Chinese cultural background, that behaviour would have been OK, but most of us are not Chinese, are we?). This caused an ethic question/accusation/flaming.
What he should have done was:
- preferably, to mention the name of the original author and to provide the url,
- or at least, to mention that he used the work from different authors and could not claim credit for everything.
Furthermore, he seemed to have been very reluctant to admit the amount of copy/paste/retyping in his work.
It seems that this has been clarified by now. Willingly or reluctantly, I don't care.
The worst was to let that off-topic ethical debate pollute the end of his tacticas, rather than creating a separate thread for that.
For that last one, the blame is shared with other off-topic posters.
Overall, I don't intend to become a judge. We have Mods for that and I praise them for doing their job.
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Back to The Electors' Forum, can we?
The general feeling was that the tacticas were interesting. I feel that they still require some improvement, but someone has to start, and that has been done.
I wish that the tacticas were cleaned up from the off-topic ethical discussions, with a small line giving credit to whoever deserves it (including Countwarlord).
I wish that tactical authors be encouraged.
Now that Countwarlord has been informed about his reader's predominant ethics, I'd like him to pursue what he started, so that he could gain well earned credit for that.
I wish that other newbee tactical authors be encouraged, too.
Would that be possible?
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Plagiarism is bad. ok we got it. So either ban him or stop acting like a kid. It IS that simple.
Apparently it's not that simple. Handfuls of forumites don't seem to be bothered by the plagiarism. :icon_sad:
Now we get "camps" staking out their position (you know mine), people calling each other names, telling each other to shut up, etc.
So the "real" result of the Count's actions aren't Tactica discussions but this crap. All because no one taught the Lad to assign credit and cite the source (of course it doesn't help when grown men excuse the behaviour, see what I did there).
Whatever, it seems like the New Book = New Forum with strange characters, rules lawyers, pseudo experts and a few WAACers tossed in. I think I'll go post my last tourney in the Battleground section and step away and just play and post Reports (not that many people comment but I like to do them). I'll chat with you over there about real tactics (and my suxxor decisions and brutal dice).
Noght
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@Noght: not everyone reads these topics or bothers replying ;)
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from france
i agree with calisson.
i liked the tactica the clearest i found
i was disapointed to know of the plagiat.
i was disapointed to for the no excuse.
but then? it should belong to the moderation now and closed this.
what i want now is th thank the or the several author of the tactica.
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@Noght: Plagiarism bothers me plenty, but so does beating a dead horse.
@Everyone: Anyone who cares has either voiced their opinion, or chosen to abstain from the conversation. The party responsible, while not seeming very sincere with any sort of apology, has been identified and called out on all possible terms.
Time to let it rest.
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Let it go guys
I am just happy to get a tactica. :happy:
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However, he mentioned that he deserved all the credit for it, when proof has been brought that he copy/pasted or retyped a significant part of it.
That's a sin for Christians, and many readers seem to have a Christian background (note: it could be that in Chinese cultural background, that behaviour would have been OK, but most of us are not Chinese, are we?). This caused an ethic question/accusation/flaming.
@Calisson
I know it's going a bit off topic, but with respect, I found this post a bit odd, not really sure how religion has anything to do with it. I don't have a Christian background, and, funnily enough, also have a healthy appreciation for ethics, good practice regarding quoting at length, copyright etc.
It has more to do with manners on the internet, a fairly global phenomenon. The vast majority of cultures and religions across the globe frown on deceit, no matter how alien they may seem, it isn't a uniquely Christian or even Western thing, and I say that as a poster from the UK.
I'm just not sure why you would assign positive values to posters based on the irrelevance of their assumed religion when typed on a forum that anyone from pretty much anywhere (except, ironically enough, China! :icon_smile:) can access, compared to assigning those values based on the more likely answer of commonly held ideas of good practice on internet forums.
Good sir, I realise the above post was made in good faith with no offence intended. Perhaps I'm reading too much into your pondering about whether lying was socially acceptable in a non-Christian country like China (like every other country, regardless of religion or lack of it, that I've ever been to, it isn't), and my apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick. Let the discussion of toy soldiers continue! :icon_biggrin:
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@ Old bold knight
Sorry for your odd feeling. I did not mean to analyse worlds ethics according to religions, indeed!
I justed wanted to point that ethics are not absolute, they are linked to own culture, which is not necessarily the reader's culture.
Also, I had the feeling that the flaming against the author was more like if he had committed a sin rather than an ethic mistake. Hence my "religious" comment.
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Ah, fair enough, it was more of an observation on your part than a judgement, I understand. Thanks for the response.
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I'm definitely approaching this from an ethical standpoint. I could give a damn what his (or anyone's) religious beliefs are.