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The Empire at War ... The Gamers Guild => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Topic started by: Cannonofdoom on May 02, 2012, 10:02:19 PM
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Overall I don't dislike the new Empire Book, but I'm not excited about it.
First of all, the Detachment rules have been completely gutted, making them almost useless. The worst thing, is that detachments can no longer make a flank charge with only sight to the enemy's flank, which means without extremely skilled placement, and a dense opponent, your counter charges will almost always be frontal charges, and thus add nothing to the combat.
I understand why they nerfed the Warrior Priests, but I think they made them a little better overall, except Soulfire, which is just okay.
I don't like the Witchhunter. It's an okay addition for fluff, but I'll never use one. The sniper rule is useless, because you can only give him pistols, and he can't be mounted on anything, so trying to get him into position to shoot his chosen target will be difficult, and with his BS4 you'll very rarely hit. An interesting character that could have had much better rules, though I think a prime candidate to carry the speculum.
The engineer is better. I will still probably field him naked with a Helblaster.
I like the new Steam Tank, Helblaster, and Rocket Battery rules. I think the Mortar didn't need to lose strength, but I don't play with six of them. I imagine I would feel they needed to be S2 if I knew someone who fielded six of them all of the time.
Robo Horse is even more useless, which is appropriate.
I am opposed to Demigryph Knights on principle. The models are gorgeous, and the rules are good, but I like my Empire with few monsters. That said, I like the changes to the Griffon.
I don't understand why they made Crossbowmen and Handgunners more expensive, or why they made Swordsmen have a lower Initiative. I'm okay with Halberdiers being 6 points, but not Free Company. I approve of the changes to Archers and Huntsmen, and will probably use them more now.
Knights are still good. I will field Reiksguard because I play Altdorf.
Flagellants are not worth 12 points.
The new chariot machines are interesting, and I like them, but I think it would have been easy to make the kit also for a Warwagon. I certainly like them more than if we had gotten a new big monster.
Outriders losing the Longrifle is stupid. They come in the kit!
I like the changes to most of the magic items, except the Speculum, which now HAS to be used in a challenge for no apparent reason. The Griffon Banner got more expensive? Again? Why?
I think the Armor of Meteoric Iron is totally worth 50 points. I love the new Steel Standard. Mace of Helstrum on a basic WP is cool. White Cloak is great, and the Ring of Volans got better, though I still don't care for one use items.
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Please, just play a few games.
Yes, Empire are different, but in the 8th meta they're still good, they're just not as "out-horde skaven" "out-magic high elves" "out-gun dwarves" as they were with the 7th edition book in a 8th edition world.
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Outriders losing the Longrifle is stupid. They come in the kit!
I thought so too at first, then I remembered that I had to raid my handgunner unit to make mine. The outrider kit only came with the blunderbuss nade launcher.
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I put my first list together last weekend and I was surprised at how quickly I ran out of points. I have to work through the list again to get back in the groove of Empire. I played three games and got slaughtered by Ogres, held my own against Tomb Kings until a series of bad dice rolls, and did pretty well against Chaos Warriors. I will say that my detachments actually contributed to two out of three games there. I wouldn't discount them especially with the Hold the Line! and the properties of the banner carrying over from the parent. Stubborn terror causing swordsmen and greatswords with Hold the line! are awesome!!!
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Please, just play a few games.
Yes, Empire are different, but in the 8th meta they're still good, they're just not as "out-horde skaven" "out-magic high elves" "out-gun dwarves" as they were with the 7th edition book in a 8th edition world.
How tyhe feck could you outhorde 2 point, ld10, steadfast skaven
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By dropping strength 3 mortar templates on them?
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Yes, Empire are different, but in the 8th meta they're still good, they're just not as "out-horde skaven" "out-magic high elves" "out-gun dwarves" as they were with the 7th edition book in a 8th edition world.
That's funny cuz you couldn't do any of those things with the old book. House Rules or ETCrap?
Noght
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Yeah, empire could never outhorde skaven. And skaven have plenty of ways to deal with blocks of troops as well, let's not forget. :p
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Whatever your impression is of the new book, we'll have to live with it. It is our new book and we must re-think how we will make our lists, which I think is EXCITING. I was getting bored with my 4 types of lists that I always used, and this new book gives me an opportunity to sit down and come up with new ones.
That being said, I don't think the Empire book was "nerfed" that much at all. The only thing worth mentioning that got the nerf stick is militia.
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That being said, I don't think the Empire book was "nerfed" that much at all. The only thing worth mentioning that got the nerf stick is militia.
You need to read a bit close methinks :-)
Noght
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That being said, I don't think the Empire book was "nerfed" that much at all. The only thing worth mentioning that got the nerf stick is militia
I'm sorry, but your rose-tinted goggles are so pink it's hurting my eyes.
This isn't a whine-post, I like our new armybook, but we did get quite nerfed in many areas:
- Most of our infantry got a pointincrease, which leads to smaller armies.
- Our shooting either got nerfed or more expensive, which leads to a less efficient shooting-phase. (Helblaster/Pidgeon bombs being the exception.)
- Our magicdefense got severely nerfed. Rod of Power and free dispell-dice from WP/AL's are all gone.
We got better in some areas (buffs, cavalry, new and good units), but overall Empire is nerfed compared to the previous Armybook. On the other hand, we now got more options, and the army itself is (imo) funnier - so it's a change I'm fine with.
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I don't really see those things as major issues, to be honest.
Lets face it, the great cannon is properly priced now. Mortar is still worth taking against some armies.
Like you said, we have more options now, which acts as a counterbalance against the smaller point increases. (I'm still taking flaggies!)
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Please, just play a few games.
Why do you think this post came so long after the book came out? I don't remember ever being able to outhorde skaven, and definitely couldn't ever outmagic High Elves. I don't know what you mean. :::cheers:::
I don't really see those things as major issues, to be honest.
Lets face it, the great cannon is properly priced now. Mortar is still worth taking against some armies.
Like you said, we have more options now, which acts as a counterbalance against the smaller point increases. (I'm still taking flaggies!)
My post is not a whine or complaint. I am pointing out what has changed and whether or not I like it. I don't feel the Empire army book needed to change as much as it did. Why did they gut the detachment rules? Mortar is obviously still worth taking, but did they need to raise the price AND lower the strength? Same for rocket battery. Did they need to reduce the template size AND reduce the strength? It seems like they just nerfed a lot of things that people were complaining about at tournaments, rather than actually trying to rebalance them.
Please explain why swordsmen lost a point of initiative. Why did spearmen get more expensive? Why did handgunners and crossbows get more expensive?
Some of the changes just make no sense.
Outriders losing the Longrifle is stupid. They come in the kit!
I thought so too at first, then I remembered that I had to raid my handgunner unit to make mine. The outrider kit only came with the blunderbuss nade launcher.
Good point! I retract my previous statement. :::cheers:::
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First of all, the Detachment rules have been completely gutted, making them almost useless. The worst thing, is that detachments can no longer make a flank charge with only sight to the enemy's flank, which means without extremely skilled placement, and a dense opponent, your counter charges will almost always be frontal charges, and thus add nothing to the combat.
What do you field? Busses to fight enemy hordes is about the only situation in which you could get a frontal charge off. With a detachment 3" back and to the side, you will always see the opponent, be in the flank and only be some 7-8" away.
By dropping strength 3 mortar templates on them?
Yeah, as if that ever had any effect...
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Damn centrists. :happy:
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You can still run your old lists with just a bit of tweaking.
You just have to swap your level 4 life wizzard(I never took these) with a level 4 shadow wizzard and BAM your mortors hit just as hard.
Then you also have to drop the champs and musicians from your infantry blocks to scrape up some points.
But seriously, until you fill up the 2 hellblasters + engineers in your list, nothing else is worth taking.
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This isn't a whine-post,I like our new armybook, but we did get quite nerfed in many areas:
- Most of our infantry got a pointincrease, which leads to smaller armies.
- Our shooting either got nerfed or more expensive, which leads to a less efficient shooting-phase. (Helblaster/Pidgeon bombs being the exception.)
- Our magicdefense got severely nerfed. Rod of Power and free dispell-dice from WP/AL's are all gone.
We got better in some areas (buffs, cavalry, new and good units), but overall Empire is nerfed compared to the previous Armybook. On the other hand, we now got more options, and the army itself is (imo) funnier - so it's a change I'm fine with.
but it is!!
anyway people stop whining, seriously its getting tiresome. if you dont like it dont take it, its that simple.
and just a question. since all new units/changes have been discussed over and over coutless times so far, why do people keep putting up threads about them asking the same pointless things again and again? i dont get it.
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I more or less agree with CoD's original post. In fact, I feel a bit like he's reading my mind.
I feel like there were a lot of good decisions made... but then there are a bunch of "solutions" to problems that didn't exist in the first place.
In the end it's an OK book, and its cool to have something new at all. Even cooler to have some new models & troop types. But I'm not jumping up and down with joy either.
Yes, Empire are different, but in the 8th meta they're still good, they're just not as "out-horde skaven" "out-magic high elves" "out-gun dwarves" as they were with the 7th edition book in a 8th edition world.
That's funny cuz you couldn't do any of those things with the old book. House Rules or ETCrap?
That was also my first thought on reading those comments as well. I always thought that the strength of our army was that we could balance a lot of those things and combine them into one list, without being the best at any one of them. Empire has usually been the best at being average at everything -- which is its own type of strength.
That said, I do think we're still in a similar position. We just have to go about it differently. And as someone said, that means new types of lists...
But that also means replacing a lot of your old models. If you want to be cynical about it -- which anyone with hordes of swordsmen supported by handgunners & crossbow might be -- now that everyone's painting up demi-griffins, knights and various chariot-church-looking-things, and trading in their mortars for volley guns. :wink:
anyway people stop whining, seriously its getting tiresome. if you dont like it dont take it, its that simple.
and just a question. since all new units/changes have been discussed over and over coutless times so far, why do people keep putting up threads about them asking the same pointless things again and again? i dont get it.
Yes! Everyone stop discussing the new Empire book on an Empire forum! Stop wasting our time with discussing the pros & cons of the new book -- it has no place here! :icon_rolleyes:
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zerotwentythree you may like seeing 2-3 different threads for captasus/beasts lvl 4/ nuln-middenland armies over and over. i dont.
i have lost count of how many people have started threads exactly like this and say the same thing. this is not discussion. this is repetion. :closed-eyes:
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I think the swordsmen lost their initiative to bring them into line with the rest of the human race. Their skill with the blade is shown with their WS4. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining when they had I4, but it never made sense to me. Some say they got a higher Initiative because of their skill with a blade, but we don't have any other weapons that affect Initiative (outside of great weapons) -- if you want weapons affecting Initiative, let's start with spears that should hit before swords just based on a longer reach and halberds if the spear point were used, etc. Swordsmen are highly trained -- that is reflected in their WS.
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Spend a year or so reading Warseer. It will build an extreme tolerance for repetition. :wink:
If CoD had written this a year from now, I'd agree. But the book is fresh off the press, and he presented a pretty balanced & moderate review*, along with specific evaluations
*If it was another, "Oh god, we're doomed! The book is so nerfed!" thread or a "The inquisition will smite you with their holy wrath if you even think about saying anything other than praising the new book as the best thing ever written" thread, I'd probably also be less tolerant.
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zerotwentythree you may like seeing 2-3 different threads for captasus/beasts lvl 4/ nuln-middenland armies over and over. i dont.
i have lost count of how many people have started threads exactly like this and say the same thing. this is not discussion. this is repetion. :closed-eyes:
Point noted.
People who whine about certain units should not field them.
The again, people who whine about certain threads should not read them.
But all of the above should use proper spelling, and that includes capitalising I if you mean yourself.
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I'm sorry, my comments were rhetorical. Of course we couldn't do those things, the point is we aren't meant to.
We're average, depressingly average. We don't try to out-horde Skaven, we don't try to out-magic High Elves, and arguably we don't try to out-shoot Dwarfs.
We do outnumber Elves and Dwarfs, so we use our numbers against them. We have solid magic, so we use that against Dwarfs and Skaven. We have fair shooting, so we use that against Elves and Skaven (and Dwarfs). We have maneuver advantage over Dwarfs so we use that.
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We do outnumber Elves and Dwarfs, so we use our numbers against them. We have solid magic, so we use that against Dwarfs and Skaven. We have fair shooting, so we use that against Elves and Skaven (and Dwarfs). We have maneuver advantage over Dwarfs so we use that.
Hear, hear !
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You can still run your old lists with just a bit of tweaking.
You just have to swap your level 4 life wizzard(I never took these) with a level 4 shadow wizzard and BAM your mortors hit just as hard.
Then you also have to drop the champs and musicians from your infantry blocks to scrape up some points.
My old list costs 264 points more, and that is despite the presence of a STank and a unit of Knights. The Shadow wiz being mandatory for the mortar to work IMO only demonstrates the weaknesses of this concept. Apart from not getting the spell, failing to cast and it being dispelled, the rest of the list will miss the Light buffs. And not being able to swift reform anymore is hardly a suggestion that merits more than a casual look.
Even taking out the two mortars will not suffice to bring it to under 2,500 points, and even then it would be extremely weaksauce. So at the end of the day, no, you cannot realistically play an old list and expect it to do well. We'll all have to look forward, try out new stuff and see what works. And we have to keep our fingers crossed that GW sticks to its philosophy when the other books are due.
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First of all, the Detachment rules have been completely gutted, making them almost useless. The worst thing, is that detachments can no longer make a flank charge with only sight to the enemy's flank, which means without extremely skilled placement, and a dense opponent, your counter charges will almost always be frontal charges, and thus add nothing to the combat.
What do you field? Busses to fight enemy hordes is about the only situation in which you could get a frontal charge off. With a detachment 3" back and to the side, you will always see the opponent, be in the flank and only be some 7-8" away.
If your detachment is within 3" it will be very difficult to have half of your frontage be in the flank arc of the enemy unit, especially if you are keeping them back from the main line so they aren't charged instead of your main block. You don't get to just charge the flank if you can see it like you used to, sadly. Sure, it's still entirely possible, it's just much more difficult, and probably impossible against a skilled opponent. I can see detachments being useful with the "Hold The Line" rule, but they are not the detachments of old.
I'm still going to field 2 blocks of 30 swordsmen and another block of 30 spearmen and probably a block of 30 greatswords and 10-15 Reiksguard (hail the fluff of Altdorf). I'm still going to play with my 20 painstakingly painted handgunners, even though I feel they don't need to be 9 points. I'll still field one cannon, and two mortars, though I'll likely now field a pair of Helblasters too. I was just presenting an opinion. And I encourage discussion of my opinions, which is why I made a thread to share them. :::cheers:::
I'm sorry, my comments were rhetorical. Of course we couldn't do those things, the point is we aren't meant to.
We're average, depressingly average. We don't try to out-horde Skaven, we don't try to out-magic High Elves, and arguably we don't try to out-shoot Dwarfs.
We do outnumber Elves and Dwarfs, so we use our numbers against them. We have solid magic, so we use that against Dwarfs and Skaven. We have fair shooting, so we use that against Elves and Skaven (and Dwarfs). We have maneuver advantage over Dwarfs so we use that.
All right, and all those balances were already in place. Why did we get arguably worse at all of them? :engel:
It's all good. :::cheers::: The mortar needed to cost more, the rocket battery needed to be nerfed, the Steam Tank had to change. I know they rewrite the books basically from scratch to make it new and shiny. I just think they changed the core troops too much, and went overboard on the nerfing of the mortar. I honestly like the new rules for the most part.
I more or less agree with CoD's original post. In fact, I feel a bit like he's reading my mind.
I am reading your mind. Right now you're thinking about tacos. Now you're thinking about ... ew ... gross dude. You are one sick puppy.
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By dropping strength 3 mortar templates on them?
Thats not "out-hoarding", it's shooting a horde...
Empire could never out horde skaven slaves, nor could we out-magic Teclis and our ability to out shoot dwarfs was highly debatable.
Cannonofdoom, I think playing a few games would be a good idea, it's not that hard to position your detachments to get flank charges relatively easily, Have a go at playing with some formations and see what works, I think you might be surprised.
Otherwise I agree with pretty much everything you've said, although I do think that reducing swordsmen int to normal human levels was sensible, I never understood why a grunt soldier should have super human reactions just because they were swinging a sword instead of a halberd, especially when our elite greatswords and knights were only I3.
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The again, people who whine about certain threads should not read them.
True I should not read them, but for some reason I can't help myself :engel:
Edit : You obviously didn't read my post to the end...
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Cannonofdoom, I think playing a few games would be a good idea, it's not that hard to position your detachments to get flank charges relatively easily, Have a go at playing with some formations and see what works, I think you might be surprised.
I'm going to play around with this and get back to you. Honestly, whenever my detachments are close enough that they would get a flank charge, my opponent charges them instead. Then I have to worry about them crashing through my lines and coming out the other side.
I do think that reducing swordsmen int to normal human levels was sensible
I can get behind that. Syn made a similar argument, and it makes sense.
The again, people who whine about certain threads should not read them.
true i should not read them, but for some reason i cant help myself :engel:
You missed the part where he said you should use capital letters. :::cheers:::
Edit: Soth beat me to it.
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I more or less agree with CoD's original post. In fact, I feel a bit like he's reading my mind.
You said it, CoD's analysis is spot on in my opinion.
There is a limit to how much game mechanics should be able to contradic fluff in order to keep things balanced. Why drilled and profesional state troops like spearmen are cheaper in points than unruly pitchfork wielding vagabonds (militia) is strange to me.
On a sidenote, I think it would have been neat if they had bumped up the initiative of spearmen to 4. That way swordsmen, halberdiers and spearmen each have one 4 in their statline. It would make sence too since spears are longer reaching weapons than swords, and are lighter weapons than halberds and should therefore be able to hit the enemy before than the other two choices. And make all three options cost 6 points for the sake of balance.
I also find it refreshing to see someone else who shares my view regarding the Demigryph Knights. Yes the sculpts look nice and they have good stats, but monsters like the demigryph, griffon and dragon belong in more "fantastical" armies. For the sake of aesthetics balance humans need to be kept just that, human.
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If your detachment is within 3" it will be very difficult to have half of your frontage be in the flank arc of the enemy unit, especially if you are keeping them back from the main line so they aren't charged instead of your main block.
I don't quite see what's so difficult about it: http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/stjonthevandalist/pic2forWS.jpg
Edit: Picture courtesy of Spiney while explaining to me how relatively easy detachments are to use!
I'm still going to field 2 blocks of 30 swordsmen and another block of 30 spearmen and probably a block of 30 greatswords and 10-15 Reiksguard (hail the fluff of Altdorf). I'm still going to play with my 20 painstakingly painted handgunners, even though I feel they don't need to be 9 points. I'll still field one cannon, and two mortars, though I'll likely now field a pair of Helblasters too.
Wow, what are you playing, 10k?!?
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Wow, what are you playing, 10k?!?
40K, more likely.
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Wow, what are you playing, 10k?!?
40K, more likely.
Nice one. :eusa_clap:
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but it is!!
anyway people stop whining, seriously its getting tiresome. if you dont like it dont take it, its that simple.
It's a fact that our infanty/shooting got more expensive and that our DD-generation is gone.
It's not whining when you're being objective and claim something that everyone agree on. :icon_rolleyes:
Stop with the anti-whining, seriously. It's getting old.
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If your detachment is within 3" it will be very difficult to have half of your frontage be in the flank arc of the enemy unit, especially if you are keeping them back from the main line so they aren't charged instead of your main block.
I don't quite see what's so difficult about it: http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/stjonthevandalist/pic2forWS.jpg
Edit: Picture courtesy of Spiney while explaining to me how relatively easy detachments are to use!
Okay, and if the charging unit has the same frontage, your detachment is no longer in the flank arc. That's what I'm talking about. Not optimal conditions where your opponent does exactly what you want. I will post a full set of diagram pictures later.
I'm still going to field 2 blocks of 30 swordsmen and another block of 30 spearmen and probably a block of 30 greatswords and 10-15 Reiksguard (hail the fluff of Altdorf). I'm still going to play with my 20 painstakingly painted handgunners, even though I feel they don't need to be 9 points. I'll still field one cannon, and two mortars, though I'll likely now field a pair of Helblasters too.
Wow, what are you playing, 10k?!?
I didn't break out my calculator for that. I don't field a lot of characters though. :::cheers:::
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CoD, I think you may have to just readjust your thoughts as to how detachments work.
I think they can take on a slightly different role now. Getting buffs from the parent unit is really nifty, especially hold the line. I actually think I will use them more now than I did last book. And the auto flank charge was a little fiddly so I don't mind losing that. But like everyone else, I am still figuring out the ideal way to use them.
I agree in many ways with your thoughts on demis, I hope to either resist the temptation or fimd something more fluffy to my army to sub in.
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CoD, I think you may have to just readjust your thoughts as to how detachments work.
I think they can take on a slightly different role now. Getting buffs from the parent unit is really nifty, especially hold the line. I actually think I will use them more now than I did last book. And the auto flank charge was a little fiddly so I don't mind losing that. But like everyone else, I am still figuring out the ideal way to use them.
I agree in many ways with your thoughts on demis, I hope to either resist the temptation or fimd something more fluffy to my army to sub in.
I'm okay with learning to use detachments differently, but right now I'm worried about being able to use them at all.
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On detatchments: I've found out that I rarely use them at all - there's simply not points for it, and the only unit you actually want detatcments on are Greatswords (for stubborn), and that eats away your special allowance.
I'm not saying detatchments are bad, but I find them abit superfluous. They cost to much to act as roadbump, and they add to little in combat to be of any real use.
The only unit that I've found really works as detatchments are 5man archer units. Screeing/Redirecting/Annoying and can even be a bunker for your engineer/witchhunter - all for 35 pts.
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I don't see how an extra 10 halberd attacks in the flank can be considered bad. (even more so when the get hatred from the priest in the main unit). I am considering upping my basic unit to 60 so that I can bring 2 detachments of thirty. Of course that is 240 halberdiers for a sweet 1440 (plus full command = 1500). Seems like a nice enough base for an army :) Bring some shooting and such and you have a 3000 point list
One of those units would pump out 90 WS3 St 4 attacks with rerolls in combat and each of the detachments, deployed as a horde are large enough to be a deteriant to anybody charging them as well.
Detachments are really good in this book.
Of course my problem is that I would never have enough models painted.
It should also be noted that at the Euro bash I took my detachments out of my 3000 point list to form a 2500 point list. There were times when they would have been handy though :)
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Yeh, 2 detachments of 30 benefitting from various buffs on your 60 strong horde makes a wall of troops that anyone would be scared to run into. Plus, now characters can join detachments with no issues, they are also useful for hiding wizards etc if you want to. Always nice not to have to have all your characters in one basket incase that basket fails.
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People are forgetting that things like hatred can be passed onto detachments now, which is pretty big.
My big block of halbs with a warrior priest in it with small detachments have been working really well.
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It's a fact that our infanty/shooting got more expensive and that our DD-generation is gone.
Like I said before, dont like it, dont take it.
Back on topic.
I havent used detachments a lot with the new empire to be honest.
But thats because my current list is an MSU so i dont need them.
I believe that they lost some good things, but got some other in return.
Geting affected by parent units psychology is pretty cool i have to say.
Overal im not really disapointed with them as many people seem to be.
But this is just a first impression until i field more of them. We'll see how it goes then
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That awkward moment when you have a misspelled word in your super funny sarcastic signature ... :engel:
Can we go back to the days when it was acceptable to point to your post count as a valid argument? I have a higher post count, therefore I win! :engel:
Also, I demand my 6000 back table posts count. :dry:
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Can we go back to the days when it was acceptable to point to your post count as a valid argument? Like Fandir ? :engel:
Also, I demand my 6000 back table posts count. :dry: No way, José
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So I've run detachments through their paces a lot more. My initial impression remains. I understand they can be useful, and I am sure I can make use of them, especially for greatswords, but I'm never going to view them as a must have like they were in 7th Edition.
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I've started taking one 15-man halb detachment with each of my 30-man halb buses, and I've found that they work great. I like that the priest's Hatred, and Hammer of Sigmar, not to mention Divine Protection cover them as well. So, Hatred and re-rolled failed wounds on 20 halberdier attacks? Yes, please. Especially when, with some wrangling, half of those come from a flank.
I guess I'll chip in the rest of my two cents here so I don't start my own new post about it. I've played seven games with the new book, and I like it, well, most of it. I've managed to beat Ogres, Dark Elves, and Lizardmen with a 4-3 record.
At first I thought the halbs were too expensive, but then I realized I can fit 90 of them into a 2k point list. With two warrior priests, two captains (one a BSB), and a lvl 4 wizard, with either a lvl 1 wizard or an engineer. With room for other goodies, like Reiksguard, or Demi-gryphs, or a Hurricanum. So far, ninety has been enough. Haven't played Skaven yet, so, we'll see.
I feel like Warrior Priests got better. The fact that you can use multiple prayers in a turn, and they cover the detachments as well is just plain great. I think I've gotten to use Hold the Line maybe twice, but I like the extra killing power Captains give me (when they aren't targeted for destruction by my opponents, that is). I like the Helblaster a lot. I'd never used one before this book, and its fun to see your opponent running away from it. Usually I team it up with an Engineer and ignore the first misfire on the artillery die. Demi-gryphs are fun, and durable as hell; just make sure you've got them some back-up, or they're a really expensive tar-pit. I haven't run any flagellants yet, but I feel like they're really expensive for the damage they might do. I've taken the Hurricanum out for a spin a couple of times and found it useful for drawing out dispel dice, so that my prayers go off. For some reason the threat of having a unit turned for a flank attack makes my opponents jittery.
Overall, my win rate is about what it was before, and I've gotten to experiment with new models, and several different lists. I like the variety that I can take to any game. Will the book be good in tournaments? I have no idea. But then, I don't play in tournaments, so I don't really care. Like I said before, with just a couple of exceptions, I like the new book.