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Imperial Artisans ... The Painters, Crafters & Writers Guilds => The Brush and Palette => Topic started by: PaxImperator on July 13, 2024, 03:12:41 PM

Title: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on July 13, 2024, 03:12:41 PM
Way back in 2000 when I was 12 or 13, I got the Warhammer Fantasy Battle 6th edition starter box, the one with the orcs and the Empire. I’ve been in love with the Empire ever since. They were my first army. The puffy sleeves, the floppy hats, the ostentatious feathers... For me nothing quite hits the spot like Empire state troops. This thread documents the journey of rediscovery that will hopefully ensue as I reassemble, repaint and expand my Empire army of old.

This actually isn’t the first time I’m revisiting my Empire army. I initially painted the army in 2000 in the early stages of WHFB 6th edition. The colour scheme I chose was the blue and white of Middenland. I was in my early teens and it was my first army. Mistakes were made. I mostly painted the models in flat colours. No highlighting or shading. I wasn’t very diligent in removing mould lines either. I didn’t play a lot of games with the army either because I was soon distracted by Warhammer 40K 3rd and later 4th edition.

I came back to the Empire later during WHFB 6th edition. I'm not sure of the year anymore, but it must have been before WHFB 7th edition was released in 2006. By then I was in my mid-late teens and had much more hobby experience under my belt. I’d collected a sizeable Imperial Guard army, a decently sized Skaven army and expanded into a few abortive hobby projects like a small Space Marine force, the odd squad of Tau and Kroot and so on. Just your regular case of teenage lizard brain. Maybe it was the release of the Skaven army book in 2002 that rekindled my interest in WHFB? Whatever it was, it made me want to improve on the first iteration of my Empire army. By then I had long ago transferred from white to black primer, so out came the chaos black rattle can and I sprayed a number of painted Empire regiments black. The new colour scheme would be the red and black of Carroburg*.

* Which technically probably wasn’t accurate because the red and black uniform is a special distinction earned by the Carroburg Greatswords, heavily implying that other Carroburg troops wear different colours. But hey, red and black is a pretty cool colour scheme.

The Carroburg army would see quite a few 1,000 point pick-up games of WHFB 6th edition at the local Games Workshop. It’s from this period especially that I have fond memories and I look forward to making some new ones now that I’m coming back to the Empire.

Why am I even doing this? Quite a few reasons:
- I have a burning nostalgia for the 2000-2006 period that I hope to soothe.
- The army as it currently stands is unfinished: some 2,000 points still in Middenland colours or unpainted, approximately 1,000 points in Carroburg colours.
- I’ve decided that for me the only good Empire army is a brightly coloured one. Red and black over a black basecoat just doesn’t do it for me anymore.

All of which brings us to the following picture, showing my progression as a painter of Empire miniatures:

(http://i.imgur.com/2leFxkPh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/2leFxkP")

Going from left to right:
Crossbowman, c. 2000: Among the first 50 models I painted. White undercoat applied unevenly. No highlighting or shading. Missed a few spots. Plenty of mould lines. Awkward pose. I did thin my paints though! He’s finished except I never applied the green flock to his base.
Halberdier, c. 2000: More of the same, only slightly better. Probably among the first 100 models I painted. I even accidentally shaded the figure by thinning my enchanted blue way down! Never finished him though.
Spearman, c. 2006: He used to look like the models on the left, then I spray painted him chaos black to repaint him. I had learned to shade and highlight and had stepped up my basing game too. My brush control had improved too.
Free company fighter, 2022: After a hiatus of a decade or two, I was ready to get back into the hobby. Ordered a lot of Vallejo paints and set to work on a model I’d previously sprayed black but never painted in Carroburg colours. I still had to relearn a thing or two about painting. A lot of this model could be better but I’m not unhappy with him, all considered. This model really drove home to me that I’d have to work from a white undercoat if I was to get the vibrant colours I wanted.
Halberdier, 2024: After that free company fighter it took me two years to work up the courage for another Empire miniature. In between I practiced on other models, mostly Napoleonics. Very happy with how this one turned out. I think I'm at about the same level again as when I went on hiatus around 2008, which is very gratifying.

Here are some close-ups of the new test model.

(http://i.imgur.com/QPcjMNXh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/QPcjMNX")(http://i.imgur.com/K7f5yIKh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/K7f5yIK")(http://i.imgur.com/jESPM0gh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/jESPM0g")

I opted for Altdorf’s colours of red and blue. As a secondary, err.. primary colour I’ve added yellow. Because how often do you get the chance to use all three primary colours on a single model? The exact colours aren’t definitive yet. I want to try a few different formulations for the red and blue. Red's still such a hard colour to paint! I’ll also definitely try a different colour for the halberd shaft. I think the reddish brown detracts from the red of the uniform. I could go for a grey, a dark brown or a yellowish brown. The model's base, of course isn't finished yet.

If you'll excuse me, I have another 9 halberdiers on my desk to give a brighter future. Looking forward to sharing my progress on this project with you as I go. :)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on July 15, 2024, 10:01:47 AM
Yesterday I set myself one simple task: Finish another test model and make sure it's a failure. It's the first time I'm approaching a model like this. My thinking is that it might be freeing to make failure my express goal because it lets me experiment and make guilt-free mistakes that I can learn from. (And then correct!) If I'd always played it safe I'd still be painting my models in flat colours like I did back in 2000. In particular, I wanted to try another way to paint the blue parts of the uniform and to put so much yellow on the model that it would drown out the red and blue, just to learn how far I could go with it.

Yesterday was a failure (and therefore a success?) but not in the way I had envisioned. Just as I was about to start on my second test model, a little voice in my head said: Wouldn't it be more efficient if you painted the skin on all 9 halberdiers at the same time? You already know how you're going to paint the skin anyway. Fair enough. So I get the other halberdiers out and am reminded they are all still black. OK, so I'll have to undercoat them first. Fine. But wait, they're still covered in mould lines! Can't have that, can we? So I get out my hobby knife and start cleaning off any remaining mould lines. But wait, says the voice in my head again. Wouldn't it be great if they had a few more feathers in their caps so you can paint them bright yellow? Yes, that sounds reasonable. So out come the glue and the bits box, and I set to work gluing feathers to hats and helmets. But wait, the Empire bits in my bits box are intermixed with goblin bits! Wouldn't it be great if they were organised properly? Well yes. So I start reorganising my bits box.

Having done that, just as I finally glue on the last feather, I realise there's a gap between one model's torso and arm. I really should fill that gap, shouldn't I? So I get out the green stuff and fill the gap. Not a bad job considering I hadn't touched green stuff since the late 2000s. But wait, there's some left over. What do I do with it? I know! I'll sculpt a purity seal on this one halberdier here. It'll be mostly obscured by his halberd so no biggie if it's not perfect. So I do that and am just admiring the result when I realise I have some more green stuff left over. No problem, I'll try sculpting on an extra bit of puffy trouser leg on this other halberdier. What could go wrong, right? Some thirty minutes into sculpting the puffy trouser leg I despaired of my chances of getting it right before bed time, so I cut my losses and scraped the green stuff off. As I was doing so, I remembered that green stuff has a curing time of 24 hours so there's no way I can still base coat the models white today. So instead, I just paint the skin on the second test model. As I should have done instead of listening to that little voice in my head. At least I now have an organised bits box and 8 models ready for priming!  ;D

Anyway, here's what the next 8 halberdiers look like:

(http://i.imgur.com/TVEwHioh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/TVEwHio)

The second from the left has the filled gap and the first from the right has the purity seal.

My mission for today and tomorrow will be to paint up that test model and not get distracted. Wish me luck!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Tiberius on July 16, 2024, 04:55:22 AM
I also burn for the hobby from the period of 2000-2006.  I was also 13 in 2001 and got hooked on the hobby. I remember looking through my friends GW terrian book and my imagination being swept away looking at all those old 5th edition models.

Also, you hobby sessions sound a lot like mine, though I usually spend at least 15 minutes look for some crucial but missing piece or tool. Frustrating because during this time of my life I don’t get many of them!  Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing the journey!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on July 16, 2024, 02:13:03 PM
Great job on the halberdier. It screams 'Mid 90's'
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on July 17, 2024, 06:49:03 PM
Quote from: Tiberius on July 16, 2024, 04:55:22 AM
I also burn for the hobby from the period of 2000-2006.  I was also 13 in 2001 and got hooked on the hobby. I remember looking through my friends GW terrian book and my imagination being swept away looking at all those old 5th edition models.

Also, you hobby sessions sound a lot like mine, though I usually spend at least 15 minutes look for some crucial but missing piece or tool. Frustrating because during this time of my life I don’t get many of them!  Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing the journey!

Thanks and welcome aboard!

Quote from: Rowsdower on July 16, 2024, 02:13:03 PM
Great job on the halberdier. It screams 'Mid 90's'

Haha cheers! I can see why you'd say that, what with the sculpt itself, the bright red uniform and the goblin green base.  :biggriin: I'm hoping to propel them a few years into the future with the base, which will be sand and static grass. I'll take mid-90s as a nice starting point though.

Anyway, I have succeeded in failing spectacularly. Let me show you a work-in-progress shot of my second test model:

(http://i.imgur.com/pAGfZTpl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/pAGfZTp)(http://i.imgur.com/yjOCXXfl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/yjOCXXf)

My mistakes:

- The yellow stockings were probably a mistake. They draw the eye to the model's ankles, which must be the least interesting part of the model.
- It doesn't take much yellow to overpower the red and blue. The yellow hat and stockings are already pushing it. I kind of saw it coming when I was going to paint the jacket, so opted for buff instead of yellow. Which leads to:
- Buff goes terribly with yellow. Won't be using that paint again.
- I tried painting the eyes with a dark brown dot, a white dot inside of that and finally another brown dot inside of that for the pupil. Found out the eyes are just too small for me to do that.

Other learnings:
- Painted the blue with an additional layer (50/50 mix between base tone and highlight) and discovered it's now brighter than I'd like. Will stick to the original recipe.
- Painted red ink over the base red colour, which brightens it noticeably. Happy with the result and will use this technique on future models.

A side-by-side comparison between the finished (bar bases) test models:

(http://i.imgur.com/O3cXtjQh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/O3cXtjQ")
(http://i.imgur.com/CkAyF5uh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/CkAyF5u")

Next I'll try some more variations in where I apply the red, blue and yellow on a few more test models. Stay tuned!

Finally, for my own future reference, I used these paints:

Model 1Model 2
Yellow:72.006 Sun Yellow basecoat, AP soft tone shade, 50/50 72.006 Sun Yellow/72.001 Dead White"     "
Blue:72.021 Magic Blue basecoat, 72.088 Blue ink, 72.023 Electric Blue highlight"     " + 50/50 Magic Blue/Electric Blue highlight
Red:72.010 Bloody Red basecoat, AP strong tone shade, 72.009 Hot Orange highlight72.010 Bloody Red basecoat, 72.086 Red ink, 50/50 AP dark tone/AP speedpaint medium shade, 72.009 Hot Orange highlight
Black:70.862 Black Grey basecoat, 72.091 Black ink shade, 70.836 London Grey highlight"     "
Skin:72.041 Dwarf Skin basecoat, AP Flesh Wash shade, Dwarf Skin highlight, 72.004 Elf Skintone highlight"     "
Wood:72.044 Dark Fleshtone70.874 Tan Earth
Metal:77.712 Steel basecoat, AP dark tone shade, 77.724 Silver highlight77.712 Steel basecoat, 77.724 Silver highlight

All paints are Vallejo, except AP (= The Army Painter)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Gankom on July 18, 2024, 03:23:13 AM
Nice stuff!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Noigrim8 on July 18, 2024, 11:47:56 AM
Primming in white was my beginner's mistake back in 2000
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: GamesPoet on July 18, 2024, 12:20:39 PM
A good read here, congrats, and will keep checking in on your progress. :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on July 18, 2024, 02:56:41 PM
I know i bring this up all the time but i think its a pity that box set isn't available anymore. It was such a versatile kit
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on July 20, 2024, 06:20:23 PM
Thanks for the kind words Gankom and GamesPoet!

Quote from: Noigrim8 on July 18, 2024, 11:47:56 AM
Primming in white was my beginner's mistake back in 2000

And have you later gone back to white as I have or stuck to your (presumably) black primer since then?

Quote from: Rowsdower on July 18, 2024, 02:56:41 PM
I know i bring this up all the time but i think its a pity that box set isn't available anymore. It was such a versatile kit

Amen. Better than what came before it and what's come after it. I consider myself very lucky to still have two untouched boxes of them ready to be assembled and painted up. I've still found no alternative. What is out there seems to be a poor fit in terms of scale and/or style.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on July 25, 2024, 05:23:54 PM
Here's a small update on the halberdiers front. WiP shots of test models 3-5:

(http://i.imgur.com/RWmPcbRh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/RWmPcbR")
(http://i.imgur.com/cmGSFqth.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/cmGSFqt")

And two shots of the mostly finished models:

(http://i.imgur.com/wgZQopph.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/wgZQopp")
(http://i.imgur.com/JcKLoIhh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/JcKLoIh")

I'm pretty happy with how the colour scheme on model 3 turned out, although I think the halberd shaft would look better in a different colour than the black grey I also used on the jerkin.

With model 4 I took a risk by adding as much yellow on the sleeves as I did. Halfway through I thought better of it and replaced half the yellow bands with red and blue ones. In retrospect I think the original idea of two colours per sleeve would have worked better. It might look quite good with red and blue bands, which also would avoid the risk of putting too much yellow on the model.

Model 5 taught me that this way lies madness. I thought I'd paint the slashes in the cloth a contrasting colour, as with the historical Landsknechts that these models are based on. It took me about 10 times as long to paint and doesn't look as striking to my eyes as any of the other models. Just as with model 4, it seems the more time I spend on intricate patterns, the worse they look. I think the problem is that there are too many slashes, they're too narrow and too close together. The end result is it all looks a bit jumbled. It's especially bad on the left leg and torso and not nearly as bad on the arms. I'll try this again but will be picky about the model I try it on.

Now it's question time: Which colour halberd shaft do you prefer? Going from left to right we have: 1. medium reddish brown, 2. beige, 3. dark grey, 4. dark brown. I think I prefer the beige but I'm not sure yet.

As a closing thought, what is wrong with these models' halberds! >:( Just with general handling and painting I've managed to bend three of them and snapped another clean off. It seems like a heavy drybrushing would be enough to damage them. Very annoying. I'll have to think of something to prevent this happening as much in the future. I'm thinking greenstuff tassels where the blade meets the shaft plus putting multiple models on a single base.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on July 28, 2024, 02:14:07 PM
Great job
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2024, 06:16:24 AM
Quote from: PaxImperator on July 25, 2024, 05:23:54 PM
As a closing thought, what is wrong with these models' halberds! >:( Just with general handling and painting I've managed to bend three of them and snapped another clean off. It seems like a heavy drybrushing would be enough to damage them. Very annoying. I'll have to think of something to prevent this happening as much in the future. I'm thinking greenstuff tassels where the blade meets the shaft plus putting multiple models on a single base.

That's a thought I haven't heard in a LONG time. A long time.
6th ed plastics were fantastic, however the halberds were notorious for exactly this.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on August 04, 2024, 02:18:15 PM
^
I personally HATED the two piece metal banner that was originally included with it. I never bothered with that thing. Being said, there really wasnt anything wrong with that kit
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Warlord on August 09, 2024, 03:54:27 AM
I hated it because it made the model fall over constantly.
There was one of the metal arm combos though, that was just one arm holding it up in marching pose - that one I liked.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Sharkbelly on August 11, 2024, 12:21:58 AM
Looking great. The colors really pop, and I love to see these old classics!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Gorim on August 14, 2024, 10:25:56 AM
The yellow really makes them pop:)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 14, 2024, 10:35:19 AM
Thanks for the kind words one and all!

Quote from: Sharkbelly on August 11, 2024, 12:21:58 AM
Looking great. The colors really pop, and I love to see these old classics!
Quote from: Gorim on August 14, 2024, 10:25:56 AM
The yellow really makes them pop:)

Then I've succeeded in what I set out to do because brightness is the name of the game with this army.  :happy:

Quote from: Warlord on July 31, 2024, 06:16:24 AM
That's a thought I haven't heard in a LONG time. A long time.
6th ed plastics were fantastic, however the halberds were notorious for exactly this.

Haha, I came across some old threads discussing exactly this while looking for a solution! :biggriin:

Quote from: Rowsdower on August 04, 2024, 02:18:15 PM
^
I personally HATED the two piece metal banner that was originally included with it. I never bothered with that thing. Being said, there really wasnt anything wrong with that kit

Easily broken halberds aside, I do really like the kit. I've been keeping an eye out for old models I can refurbish on auction sites. The only thing holding me back is fear of my girlfriend's glare when my purchasing outstrips my painting.

Whelp, it's been three weeks! :o The good news is that I have an update. The first 10 halberdiers are done. One errant fireball and a failed panic check away from an ignominious flight, but that's soldiering in the Empire for you. Here they are in all their glory.

(http://i.imgur.com/dfr0pghh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/dfr0pgh)
Entire unit

(http://i.imgur.com/nLvDiYRh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/nLvDiYR)
Back rank

(http://i.imgur.com/MjH7ulHh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/MjH7ulH)
Rear view

What do you think?

I actually managed not to snap any more halberds, which was a relief. The sides of the bases are, of course, goblin green (Vallejo 72.030). It's indistinguishable from GW's goblin green that I was using back in 2000-2006. The static grass is literally the same because I had plenty left over at the time.

Since I have a lot  more painting to do for this project, I've decided I need to trick my lizard brain into thinking I'm nearly done. The way to do that is to paint the army in small chunks. Here's the first 500 points:

62   Captain: great weapon, full plate armour   
   
200   25 spearmen: full command, shields   
60      10 halberdiers
80      10 handgunners
      
100   great cannon   
      
502   


The point of the list is not necessarily to be viable in an actual game, but to let me track my progress. And what do you know, I've already painted the 10 halberdiers and all the other models are 'just' repaints. So I'm practically done already, see?  :)

Speaking of repaints, here are the handgunners I'll be repainting:

(http://i.imgur.com/jDFv5uyh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/jDFv5uy)

(http://i.imgur.com/pMfPHeXh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/pMfPHeX)

They are of course from the 6th edition starter box. If I were to do them over from scratch I'd do some headswaps on the back rank for variety, but that's a bit too involved for me at this stage. Overall I'm not unhappy with these. They're not up to my current standards but they look just fine on the tabletop. Also I have another 19 unpainted ones, so plenty of opportunity for headswaps later. The challenge will be to get the red bright enough. I have my work cut out for me there, as you can see:

(http://i.imgur.com/8MgDZUsh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/8MgDZUs)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Naitsabes on August 14, 2024, 09:03:14 PM
Nice takes on the classics.

I don't think the red will be hard to brighten. Now getting that nice, rich, even blue over the black on the other hand...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on August 15, 2024, 01:39:16 PM
You could try getting you're girlfriend into the hobby. Most of the players and hobbyists at the local shop in my town have wives/girlfriends who have shown an interest
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: stareso on August 16, 2024, 01:56:27 PM
Stunning group of puffy sleeved lads - the bright colours are really working well and with the basing they pop even more. As for the halberd poles I like beige the most as well, but very much recognize how difficult such a simple choice can be. Also those breaking halberds are a nightmare, I agree. I have a bout 40 of those boys and I think less than 10 still have intact halberds. I bought new halberds from a different company to replace them.

I look forward to seeing more!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 16, 2024, 05:36:02 PM
Quote from: Naitsabes on August 14, 2024, 09:03:14 PM
Nice takes on the classics.

I don't think the red will be hard to brighten. Now getting that nice, rich, even blue over the black on the other hand...

Thanks! And I think you're in for a surprise...  :biggriin:

Quote from: Rowsdower on August 15, 2024, 01:39:16 PM
You could try getting you're girlfriend into the hobby. Most of the players and hobbyists at the local shop in my town have wives/girlfriends who have shown an interest

I'd like that but it seems very unlikely at the moment. She's never shown an interest in joining in. Still, she's supportive of me painting and playing with my little men and that's good enough for me.

Quote from: stareso on August 16, 2024, 01:56:27 PM
Stunning group of puffy sleeved lads - the bright colours are really working well and with the basing they pop even more. As for the halberd poles I like beige the most as well, but very much recognize how difficult such a simple choice can be. Also those breaking halberds are a nightmare, I agree. I have a bout 40 of those boys and I think less than 10 still have intact halberds. I bought new halberds from a different company to replace them.

I look forward to seeing more!

Thanks! You're right it's these ostensibly simple choices that are the hardest to make because they carry over to the whole army. Same thing with the handguns. I'm leaning towards more beige because it worked on the halberds, but we'll see. What company's halberds are you using, out of interest?

I've taken some snapshots of my experiment to ask and answer one simple question: Is it faster to paint red over dark red or over white? The results are as unsurprising as they are decisive.

From left to right we have: 1. white test subject 2. reference model (starting stage) 3. dark red test subject 4. reference model (end stage)

In this shot I have already applied 4 coats of red paint and ink on no. 3. (and two thin coats of blue, which covered very well indeed).
(http://i.imgur.com/Ht3RXBnh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Ht3RXBn)

Another coat of red or two on no. 3...
(http://i.imgur.com/7KUWKmEh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/7KUWKmE)

First white coat on no. 1.
(http://i.imgur.com/fIn9Pach.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fIn9Pac)

Second white coat on no. 1...
(http://i.imgur.com/3HUyObdh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/3HUyObd)

Third white coat on no. 1...
(http://i.imgur.com/jHXWHIPh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/jHXWHIP)

Fourth white coat on no. 1...
(http://i.imgur.com/RzyltBsh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/RzyltBs)

And one red coat on no. 1.
(http://i.imgur.com/ASXXbovh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ASXXbov)

I'm calling it here. No. 1 will probably need one more thin red coat but already he's brighter than no. 3. I'll just put no. 3 in a back rank somewhere he won't stand out. The clothes seams on his calves are already hard to make out so I can't keep putting on the paint. Good to know for certain that I'd best paint over white. What's that?

Quote from: PaxImperator on July 13, 2024, 03:12:41 PM
This model really drove home to me that I’d have to work from a white undercoat if I was to get the vibrant colours I wanted.

Shush now! I didn't forget my own words; I just wanted empirical evidence. :x

Next up: 8 more handgunners getting covered in white paint in three... two... one...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 19, 2024, 07:57:41 AM
I'm riding a wave of painting motivation at the moment. It'll abate in time, but for now I'm making the most of it. Look at the progress on my handgunners!

(http://i.imgur.com/7FUiSfoh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/7FUiSfo")

Some observations on the balance between yellow, red and blue:
1 & 5: These are the models from the experiment from before. Glad to see our more muted fellow fits in reasonably well in the unit.
2, 3, 4, 6, 9: After painting them I realised the red and yellow bands look a bit like the Catalan independence flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estelada). That wasn't the plan. I think I'll paint over it on 3 and 9 because they already have yellow feathers. The plan is still to have some yellow on every miniature, just not too much.
7: Happy with this one. I think the white feather adds some visusal interest.
8: I made a mistake here with the yellow. Applying it widthwise worked well on the halberdiers but here it just highlights the unnaturally long straight lines across the width of the sleeves.
10: Happy with this one too. the amount of yellow is just right.

I'm enjoying painting the handgunners less than the halberdiers. Part of it is having to apply layer upon layer of white before I can get to the fun stuff, part of it is the sculpts. The puffy sleeves on the handgunners look less natural in places. They also don't have as many details that lend themselves to being painted a third contrasting colour, like those ribbons all the halberdiers have around their lower legs. On future models I'll do headswaps and add feathers in caps for variety and to give me more places to put yellow. I do still like the overall look of the handgunner models. I'll make it work!  :)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: stareso on August 20, 2024, 01:01:53 PM
Nice work again Pax, loving the handgunners too. They seem really bright (in a good way), did you use a white undercoat for them as well? It is clear from your experiment what difference a white base makes. Although repainting four layers of white over your old models must be a bit of a chore?

Good on you for riding that wave of motivation! I hear you, these are usually temporary, it is how life goes. For now we are enjoying the fruits of your labour, keep it up!

As for your question on replacements, I had to look for quite a while before I found suitable halberds. Most suppliers really don't capture that Empire feel in my opinion. I ended up with Brother Vinni's, as these are very fitting in style and properly scaled, to my eyes at least!

https://brother-vinni.com/products/halberds-for-conversion-wargame-fantasy-28mm-resin-bits

Cheers
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 21, 2024, 11:07:00 AM
Thanks! After reading your post I immediately got up from the computer and got back to painting.  :happy:

To answer your question, I've followed the same procedure as with the test models, so yes they all got four coats of white before I could get properly started. It's quite a chore, as you've said. I'm trying to think of ways to lessen the burden for future models. What I've come up with so far:
- No white on parts that are going to be blue. The blue covers well enough without it. This alone should save me about half the work!
- I'll paint the jerkins black grey instead of blue/red or yellow.
- I'll see if a medium grey as a first undercoat would mean one less coat of white.

Thanks for the halberd link. That would have taken me a long time to find myself. They do seem to fit the bill nicely.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 24, 2024, 02:58:32 PM
One and a half weeks after starting them, I've finished the unit of 10 handgunners. That's pretty darn fast by my standards!  :D  Enough talking. More pictures!

Entire unit:
(http://i.imgur.com/WYe4c2Kh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/WYe4c2K")

Back rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/dUdQ0cZh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/dUdQ0cZ")

Rear view:
(http://i.imgur.com/W6cEnvth.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/W6cEnvt")

I'm happy how they turned out. There's just enough yellow on all of them and I was able to get the yellow, red and blue nice and bright. I'm still not sure how to shade the yellow feathers. Soft tone darkens them too much so I opted to just give them a very subtle highlight of my base yellow + white. I might come back to those later or I might not.

For my own future reference:
Yellow cloth: 72.006 Sun Yellow basecoat, AP soft tone shade, 50/50 72.006 Sun Yellow/72.001 Dead White
Yellow feathers: 72.006 Sun Yellow basecoat, 50/50 72.006 Sun Yellow/72.001 Dead White
Blue:   72.021 Magic Blue basecoat, 72.088 Blue ink, 72.023 Electric Blue highlight   
Red:   72.010 Bloody Red basecoat, 72.086 Red ink, 50/50 AP dark tone/AP speedpaint medium shade, 72.009 Hot Orange highlight
Black:   70.862 Black Grey basecoat, 72.091 Black ink shade, 70.836 London Grey highlight
Skin:   72.041 Dwarf Skin basecoat, AP Flesh Wash shade, 72.004 Elf Skintone highlight
Wood:   70.874 Tan Earth basecoat, 72.061 Khaki highlight
Metal:   72.054 Gunmetal basecoat

All paints are Vallejo, except AP (= The Army Painter)

Next up will be the part of this 500-point chunk that I have been dreading: the block of 25 spearmen. There are three reasons for that: there's a whopping 25 of them, 12 of them are based 4 models to a base and I'd like to do a freehand design on the banner. *gulp*  :o This is what they look like now.

Front view:
(http://i.imgur.com/yzbo15Zh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/yzbo15Z")

Rear view:
(http://i.imgur.com/VoRDHkXh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/VoRDHkX")

The current freehand design on the banner was my attempt to transfer the lion's head shield bosses to the flag. The idea of a lion's head was fine in principle but I should have used a proper heraldic lion's head for reference. I'm thinking this time I'll try for a lion rampant holding the shield from the Altdorf coat of arms, kind of like this (http://"https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/index.php/Altdorf_bei_N%C3%BCrnberg"):

(https://www.heraldry-wiki.com/heraldrywiki/images/e/eb/Altdorfn.jpg)

Altdorf coat of arms:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/7/7a/Altdorf_heraldry.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/294?cb=20171006141432)

To keep it manageable I'll paint this unit in three batches of 10, 10 and 5, moving from the back to the front of the unit. I'm not sure how to paint everything yet but I'll figure it out as I go along. I'm considering whether to paint the spear tassels yellow. That would be one way of getting some yellow on every model but perhaps that would be a bit much if I also paint some of the hats and feathers yellow as I'm planning to do? I'm also considering what to do with the shields. Brightening the red and replacing the black with blue might work, but I could also emulate the 'Eavy Metal team's 6th edition Talabheim army, which had yellow lion heads on black shields. It looked surprisingly good against the red and white background of the Talabheim uniform.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on August 25, 2024, 12:26:03 PM
Great job
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 25, 2024, 02:52:54 PM
Thanks Rowsdower!

I've designated another two lucky test models to try out my ideas for cutting corners. The experiment is threefold: see how many layers of grey/white I need to get a bright red, see if I can pre-shade the red by applying the white selectively rather than as even coats, and see if I can paint blue straight over black. 

Starting stage:
(http://i.imgur.com/QV8KDvRh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/QV8KDvR)

Left model - red half: cold grey blue half: cold grey
Right model- red half: cold grey blue half:
(http://i.imgur.com/N2jwU0Qh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/N2jwU0Q)

Left model - red half: dead white blue half:
Right model- red half: dead white blue half:
(http://i.imgur.com/BDUuZNBh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/BDUuZNB)

Left model - red half: dead white blue half:
Right model- red half: dead white blue half:
(http://i.imgur.com/aTKwVXdh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/aTKwVXd)

Left model - red half: dead white blue half:
Right model- red half: blue half:
(http://i.imgur.com/L0cjD2nh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/L0cjD2n)

Left model - red half: bloody red blue half: magic blue
Right model- red half: bloody red blue half: magic blue
(http://i.imgur.com/u9m6Nrvh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/u9m6Nrv)

Left model - red half: bloody red blue half: magic blue
Right model- red half: bloody red blue half: magic blue
(http://i.imgur.com/LnHpolmh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/LnHpolm)

Left model - red half: red ink blue half:
Right model- red half: red ink blue half:
(http://i.imgur.com/sXFcWleh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/sXFcWle)

Left model - red half: red ink blue half:
Right model- red half: blue half:
(http://i.imgur.com/JnvmSQHh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/JnvmSQH)

My conclusions are:
- My best red recipe* so far is: grey, white, white, red, red, red ink, red ink
- My best blue recipe is: blue, blue
- I can get some natural shading out of my new way of applying the white paint!

*It's a bit hard to tell from the pictures, but the red on the left model is just as bright and saturated as that on the handgunners and halberdiers I painted earlier.

In short: awesome. This is going to save me so much time!  :biggriin:  Now to apply these lessons to the other 8 models in this batch...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Archilector_Malaga on August 26, 2024, 10:45:16 AM
This an excellent post. It's been very interesting to read your progression through time. You also have a good hand for painting, I'd say, as I can see a very neat painting in all your minis.
Seeing the colour schemes you tend to go for, I'd give you a piece of advice here, which I hope you don't mind:

-Red: Use "charred brown" as a base just adding a bit of the red tone you're using as your "main red". Then add ochre to the red gradually in several steps to highlight. That'll give depth to your red (the same will happen with other colours)

-Blue: Basically it's the same principle as above. Use the same blue tone if you want, and add black until you get a good contrast for the base. Then use the "main blue" over the base, leaving the base tone visible where it corresponds. Add any pale blue to the main tone gradually in several steps.

-Yellow: Mix the main tone with a not very dark brown for the base, and then apply the main yellow colour you're using over the base. I'd highlight adding some bright bone colour such as Citadel "screaming skull" or similar to the main yellow tone.

Yous skins are already very good, so I would add much there other than maybe highlighting adding a bit of bone to the flesh tone that you're using.

Congrats for your minis and I hope to see more of your work!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 27, 2024, 05:12:45 PM
Thanks! Much appreciated.  :happy:  I'm going to try your tips. The yellow recipe looks like it would be useful across the entire army. For the red and blue, I'll have to see if/how I can make it work without spending too much extra time per model. If I can make it look good but the time investment is on the high end, I might have to limit it to front rank models/characters/artillery crews or some other subset of models.

A few quick questions about the red recipe: Would you apply this over a white basecoat, and would you expect any trouble getting a bright red if you're working your way up from charred brown? How many coats would you expect to need?
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Archilector_Malaga on August 28, 2024, 10:34:14 AM
Quote from: PaxImperator on August 27, 2024, 05:12:45 PM
Thanks! Much appreciated.  :happy:  I'm going to try your tips. The yellow recipe looks like it would be useful across the entire army. For the red and blue, I'll have to see if/how I can make it work without spending too much extra time per model. If I can make it look good but the time investment is on the high end, I might have to limit it to front rank models/characters/artillery crews or some other subset of models.

A few quick questions about the red recipe: Would you apply this over a white basecoat, and would you expect any trouble getting a bright red if you're working your way up from charred brown? How many coats would you expect to need?

That's a good question. You can add some of the red tone you're using to the charred brown to create a more smooth base. Then apply the red colour directly over that base. In 2 or 3 steps adding ochre to that red tone and painting a smaller surface towards the light you will get a convincing bright red.
I would never recommend priming in white unless you're planning to do slap-chop (which I've never been a fan of)

1. Charred + some red
2. Red over the base
3. Add ochre to red
4. Add ochre again to the mixture

If you want and you have or want to spend some more time on the red, you can apply a wash with the same red to smoothen the transitions if you see the contrast is too aggressive or it looks more orange-ish than red.

I hope it helps  :smile2:
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 30, 2024, 03:03:28 PM
Cheers! :smile2:

Now that we're on the cusp of a new weekend and I have high hopes of getting in a few hours of uninterrupted painting, I though it would be fun and motivational to share a work-in-progress shot of my first ten spearmen. I'll post another update once the weekend's over. Here they are:

(http://i.imgur.com/9BReIX3h.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/9BReIX3")

As you can see the eight regular models are close to catching up to the two test models from my earlier post. Just two thin coats of blue and I can start shading and highlighting. In the end I opted to paint the spear tassels yellow because they're one of the few places I can easily get some yellow paint in. Although I'm not a big fan of the slung shields on some of the models, they do afford me some good opportunities to place yellow accents. Thanks younger me! I'll save the shields till last because they get in the way a lot and I'm still undecided on what colours to paint them in. I'm slowly coming around to the view that they're too big to be painted in anything other than my two primary colours of red and blue though.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 02, 2024, 05:30:27 PM
Now that the weekend's come and gone, let's see how I did:

(http://i.imgur.com/0e7IphEh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/0e7IphE")

Very happy with the progress. I'm currently averaging about 10 models every one and a half weeks. At this rate I'll finish my first 500 points in another three weeks. Quite the morale boost!

As you might be able to tell from the pictures, I have yet to paint these models' spear shafts and shields. I also need to highlight the black/grey and clean up some metallic parts. The one shield with a bright red lion's head is a test.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 05, 2024, 05:56:57 PM
I think I've changed my mind on the spearmen's shields. Observe:

(http://i.imgur.com/v4z79SEh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/v4z79SE)
From left to right: 1st shield attempt, random spearman to show off the uniform, 2nd shield attempt (wip)

My first try saw me mix three blue paints to get five shades of blue with which I painstakingly shaded the shield. I added a red lion's head annnd... it was just lacking a certain je ne sais quoi. The red just sort of blends into the background. So I painted the lion's head on the second shield yellow and even though it's not yet done I already like the result better. The yellow really stands out against the black background and the red and blue already on the model. It is, of course, a copy of the spearmen's shields in the GW studio's Talabheim army. I think the 'Eavy Metal team really were onto something when they picked those colours.

So what do you think? Am I going mad? Is there a way to make red on blue really pop? Which shield do you prefer?
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 09, 2024, 05:09:33 PM
In the end I had to go with yellow over black. I'll share some pictures later this week, once I have something worth sharing.

Meanwhile I've made a mock-up for the unit's flag. As I mentioned before it's based on the coat of arms (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=wappen+von+altdorf&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldry-wiki.com%2Fheraldrywiki%2Fimages%2Fe%2Feb%2FAltdorf.hagd.jpg) of a little-known town in Germany called Altdorf. Funny coincidence, that.  :D  This is just a mock-up to get the basic idea across. The shield still needs to have its proper iconography added. Right now I'm thinking I should also make the red-and-blue border wider to show off my army's main colours better. That would also free up space in the four corners for little yellow squares with a black twin-tailed comet or suchlike inside. What do you think?

(http://i.imgur.com/0D8yUmch.png) (https://imgur.com/0D8yUmc)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 15, 2024, 01:49:41 PM
It has been pointed out to me that the alternating red and blue on the flag's border looks a bit off.  Here are two more tries, one with a solid red border and another with alternating red and blue.

(http://i.imgur.com/0D8yUmcm.png) (http://"https://imgur.com/0D8yUmc")  (http://i.imgur.com/0Ak3d4Xm.png) (http://"https://imgur.com/0Ak3d4X")  (http://i.imgur.com/wzkDRqYm.png) (http://"https://imgur.com/wzkDRqY")

I'm not sold on the middle one because the red's overpowering the blue. The right one looks like the best of the lot to me. What do you think? I'm very open to alternatives and suggestions.

Finally, here are the first 10 spearmen! I was saving them until I'd completed the next 10 too, but decided to post them now because I probably won't be able to finish the next 10 this weekend. I hope you like them! The yellow on the shields looked just right to me after I'd applied the 50/50 AP soft tone/flow medium mix over the yellow, so I've chosen not to manually highlight them. The lion's head looked a bit too pale on the one I did try it on.

5th rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/rWVuAslh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/rWVuAsl")

4th rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/qVGAgDkh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/qVGAgDk")
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 17, 2024, 05:10:21 PM
3rd rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/pebUTH7h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/pebUTH7)

2nd rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/SXjCPKGh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/SXjCPKG)

That's a +3 rank bonus right there plus possibly a +1 outnumber bonus too!  :happy:  I hope you like them. Now it's 'just' a matter of painting the front rank, including that standard bearer...

I've noticed that as I've been painting more miniatures, I've started erring towards fewer yellow details on the uniforms for variety. There are a few reasons for that. The spearmen's bulky shields and close-order formation obscure a lot so I didn't want to waste precious time on too much detail. Also, between the shield bosses and spear tassels the spearmen were already pushing the boundaries in terms of how much yellow I could add to them. And finally every bit of yellow necessitates about three layers of grey/white to get up to the desired brightness due to the black undercoat, which wasn't helping either. The halberdiers by contrast were wildly experimental as they were the first models I tested my colour scheme on. Both the halberdiers and handgunners also lack shields and won't have as many models standing around them to hide all the yellow details. I'll try for some more variation again with the spearmen's front rank, the cannon crew and the captain.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on September 19, 2024, 10:00:11 AM
Great work! I love these minis and your colour scheme is gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing the finished banner!  :smile2:
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 22, 2024, 08:17:43 AM
Thanks for the kind words Albrecht!

It's really finally happening. I've printed the flag twice, once as normal and once with a grid. The idea is to temporarily draw/paint that same grid on the flag to help me get the lion's proportions right. I made a bendy ruler out of a strip of paper to help with the grid. After getting the lion's contours on the flag, the rest should be relatively simple. The coat of arms is still missing a griffon's head, but I reckon I can improvise that. Wish me luck! *deep breath*

(http://i.imgur.com/ep15Ciwh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ep15Ciw)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Naitsabes on September 22, 2024, 06:40:23 PM
That's quite the amount of carful planning with grids and measurements! A bit of a look behind the magician's curtain.

I like the thicker red-blue border too. Go with that.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on September 24, 2024, 08:21:28 AM
That's a great approach to the banner. I would love to see WIP shots. I'm working out how to paint the banner for my own Halberdiers now. I want it to be a griffon, but I haven't worked out quite how yet...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 30, 2024, 10:55:33 AM
Ask and you shall receive. :smile2: As you might be able to tell I've been dreading this part of the project. It's resulted in me procrastinating more unfortunately. I've still made some progress though:

1.(http://i.imgur.com/kPgrWMlm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kPgrWMl) 2.(http://i.imgur.com/UTj2RRXm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/UTj2RRX) 3.(http://i.imgur.com/HXUBSFjm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/HXUBSFj) 4.(http://i.imgur.com/auqEXNCm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/auqEXNC) 5. (http://i.imgur.com/HfbnCtkm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/HfbnCtk) 6.(http://i.imgur.com/CTUmO58m.jpg) (https://imgur.com/CTUmO58) 7.(http://i.imgur.com/31JUeA7m.jpg) (https://imgur.com/31JUeA7) 8.(http://i.imgur.com/oXtYF4Am.jpg) (https://imgur.com/oXtYF4A) 9.(http://i.imgur.com/CW7FblAm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/CW7FblA) 10.(http://i.imgur.com/fUhRsrtm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fUhRsrt)

The yellow took a LOT of layers to get an even(ish) finish. It seems that the bigger the surface is, the harder it becomes to make it look good. I could have probably skipped the last few layers because much of the yellow was eventually painted over in black anyway.

1. Here I've drawn literal guidelines in pencil to help get the lion's proportions right. I've also printed the lion with a grid just like this one. The print actually has an 8x8 grid but that was too finnicky to paint on the flag. Getting the lines to be straight was actually deceptively hard, even with my improvised flexible ruler. I already knew the flag isn't a perfect square, but it's not even a perfect rectangle either! It fans out a bit as you get further from the pole.
2. Here I was basically floundering about with black paint, trying to avoid the lion's outline as long as I could. This was going nowhere because by the time I'd eyeballed a good spot to start on the outline, the paint in my brush was already starting to dry.
3. The solution was to use the pencil to sketch the outline. It proved too hard to follow the lion's exact outline so I've simplified a few things here and there. The only way to tell is to read this thread anyway.
4. A few coats of black later and the flag almost looks finished! Almost, because there's a lot more left to do...
5. ... like paint the borders and details red and blue.
6. The tiny blue crown was nearly impossible to see from a distance so I repainted it red. The borders also got a few more layers of red paint and ink. I also started work on the blue squares in the borders.
7. In the bottom right corner I mistakenly painted too many blue squares. You can still just about see the ongoing repairs in slightly brighter red paint.
8. Fixed the border and got started on the heraldy. The hammer's done, the crown and griffon's head have had their outline sketched. Next time I should do this in reverse order because I ran out of space for the griffon's head.
9. Expanded the bottom blue field to accommodate the griffon's head and filled in the crown and griffon's head with white and red.
10. Went over the white with yellow and added a few small details to the griffon's head. Done!

So there we are. I hope this is useful. I still have to paint over the pencil grid on the lion, finish the border, detail the lion, freehand the designs on the shield, do a lot of touch-ups, then do everything again on the other side. Better get to it then. It's been more work than I thought but not as hard as I feared, so I'm picking up the pace now.

EDIT: Updated with the finishing touches on the banner's back. I've unfortunately been delayed by a cold but will have some more updates coming soon.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 08, 2024, 06:10:25 PM
Here's the first of those updates I promised. The unit's done!  :biggriin:

(http://i.imgur.com/OchfZwVh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/OchfZwV)(http://i.imgur.com/jQ7DkArh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/jQ7DkAr)(http://i.imgur.com/nBo7f5fh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/nBo7f5f)(http://i.imgur.com/vnaXKIKh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/vnaXKIK)(http://i.imgur.com/XfUurZlh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/XfUurZl)(http://i.imgur.com/hjrzRcEh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/hjrzRcE)

Very happy with the result too. It took a while but it was worth it. No resting on my laurels yet though, because I still have these to go:

(http://i.imgur.com/fLMDJ2Yh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/fLMDJ2Y)

... boy do these guys look dreary compared to the riot of colour that is my spearmen regiment. :D

The model on the left is my old captain. He's a kit bash of state troop and militia parts, plus an Ulrican amulet from the knightly orders box that younger me for some reason decided to glue to his left buttock by way of ornamentation. I have happy memories of Steed of Shadowsing him into Skaven weapons teams, enemy wizards and suchlike. Still though, he's just not enough of a peacock to lead my new army. What honest Reiklander would follow a man without even a single feather in his cap into combat? So I will sadly retire him to a free company detachment, where he will still look flashy compared to the riff raff around him. I have something fun planned for a replacement captain, but that'll have to wait till the next 500-point chunk.

The cannon was pretty decent but I still stripped it in methylated spirits to correct a few mistakes. The carriage's sides were uneven because of a casting defect so I smoothed them out with greenstuff. I also added ornamental handles to the barrel and rings to the front of the carriage, additions that younger me deemed unnecessary. Now that the cannon's stripped I can also give it a white basecoat to help make it nice and bright.  :happy:  I'm thinking bronze barrel, steel metal fittings and a red-and-blue carriage with some sort of freehand pattern to further beautify it.

(http://i.imgur.com/X7jTvp3h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/X7jTvp3)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Naitsabes on October 08, 2024, 11:04:27 PM
Congrats on finishing that cheery spearmen regiment.

Had to chuckle when I read about the old Captain's fate.

Keep it coming!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on October 09, 2024, 08:30:46 AM
The banner (and unit) turned out great, well done! I'm looking forward to the cannon, your plan sounds very promising.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Noigrim8 on October 10, 2024, 05:20:41 PM
Amazing, one of the best flags I've ever seen
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 11, 2024, 02:57:29 PM
Thanks a lot for your very kind words!  :smile2:

Time for a work-in-progress shot:

(http://i.imgur.com/oPke4Ehh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/oPke4Eh")

Very happy with how the crew's shirts are turning out in particular. I just layered a tan and two cream colours on top of each other but the look's much improved compared to my previous efforts. I think the captain will need some yellow on him somewhere to tie him in with the rest of the army but I'm not sure where yet. I think the red and blue works together well on the cannon's carriage. I'm torn on whether to darken the red with ink as I've done on the uniforms, but will probably do so.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on October 14, 2024, 01:28:39 PM
Great job.
I tried doing banners like that and gave up
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 15, 2024, 03:13:52 PM
Quote from: Rowsdower on October 14, 2024, 01:28:39 PM
Great job.
I tried doing banners like that and gave up

Thanks. Having just painted my first banner like that, I can relate.

While painting the gun it occurred to me that the first Empire great cannon I ever saw was this red-and-blue one (http://"https://whfb.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/5/59/Empire_Great_Cannon_M01.jpg/270px-Empire_Great_Cannon_M01.jpg") by the 'Eavy Metal Team from the 90s. I guess on some level I've always thought of that one as the archetypal great cannon. It seems fitting that I'm going 'back to the source' here, as it were. Here they are, all finished:

(http://i.imgur.com/L36Ct2mh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/L36Ct2m")

(http://i.imgur.com/FBWQprrh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/FBWQprr")

Quite happy with how the freehand turned out. I wanted something curvy and graceful and this fits the bill nicely. I made a couple of sketches and picked the one I liked best. If I could have rebuilt it from scratch I would have left the wheels off during painting for easier brush access. Then I could have extended the pattern all the way to the front of the carriage too. I painted the pattern in white paint, then glazed it with thinned-down blue paint and red ink respectively. It worked well with the red ink but not so well with the blue paint, which was so thin that the pigment particles were spread out unevenly and there were bluer and whiter areas. This was easy enough to fix with some light blue paint.

Next up the captain, soon to be demoted to the free company:

(http://i.imgur.com/aV9lPRLl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/aV9lPRL")(http://i.imgur.com/cRJMiDFl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/cRJMiDF")

I think I'll be happier with him once he's inside a unit. As characters go he's a bit underwhelming.

Finally two shots of the whole army because this first 500-point chunk is now DONE. Woohoo! ;D

(http://i.imgur.com/I0n3JXoh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/I0n3JXo")

(http://i.imgur.com/cCFWzZ3h.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/cCFWzZ3")

This gives me:
Captain: great weapon, full plate armour
25 spearmen: full command
10 handgunners
10 halberdiers

Now for the next 500-point chunk to keep tricking my lizard brain into thinking I'm nearly done. Here's what I have planned:

62 Captain: halberd, full plate armour    
        
12        2 halberdiers
        
200    25 swordsmen: full command    
48        6 handgunners
60        12 free company (one of which already painted)
        
75    Mortar    
        
95    5 pistoliers    
        
552 points
        
55    models to paint



I'm a little over in terms of points to compensate for the fact that the 62-point captain I just painted has become a 5-point free company fighter. All in all, this will give me a nice little army of one hero, two 25-man combat blocks, each with its own 12-man combat detachment and 8-man ranged detachment plus two war machines and one light cavalry unit.

Next up... 25 swordsmen. Better start planning that banner well in advance.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PowerSeries on October 15, 2024, 04:03:32 PM
Excellent!  I was looking forward to seeing more. 
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: VonOttenheim on October 15, 2024, 06:18:21 PM
I really like your painting style and love your banners.  :::cheers::: :biggriin:

Just be careful which way your "heraldic animal" is facing on the banner.

Forward is "charge"   :smile2:

Love all your stuff, makes me want to get back into the hobby,
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Indio on October 16, 2024, 01:48:58 AM
This looks fantastic! Love how everything looks, the army looks great together!

And that banner  :eusa_clap:
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Tiberius on October 21, 2024, 12:15:14 AM
Really excellent work. Those colors are so strong and crisp. And as everyone has said, that banner is exquisite.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 21, 2024, 08:51:01 AM
Thanks guys! :smile2:

Quote from: VonOttenheim on October 15, 2024, 06:18:21 PM
Just be careful which way your "heraldic animal" is facing on the banner.

Forward is "charge"   :smile2:

Oh dear, that's not good. :ph34r: Thanks for pointing this out. I've been looking for hours for a definitive source on this, but you appear to be right based on the flags here (https://www.flagsofwar.com/collections/barons-war). I'm not repainting this flag but will not be making the same mistake in the future.

Now for the before pictures of the next big block of troops - my swordsmen:

(http://i.imgur.com/asO9mKil.jpg) (https://imgur.com/asO9mKi)(http://i.imgur.com/het7RFSl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/het7RFS)

I'm much happier with how this banner turned out back in the 00s. I'm still going to paint over it though because I want the Altdorf coat of arms on there somewhere. Here are two mock-ups I made:

(http://i.imgur.com/RwHGh92m.png) (https://imgur.com/RwHGh92)(http://i.imgur.com/5n2Q6FHm.png) (https://imgur.com/5n2Q6FH)

They're both based on designs I found in the 'Uniforms and Heraldry of the Empire' book, which has been invaluable. The blue-and-red field and yellow cross mimic the sworsdmen's future shields and the Altdorf coat of arms is there to unify the flags across the army. I like the scroll for added visual interest in what would otherwise be a rather plain design. What do you think of these designs? I think I'll iterate on the right one, adding appropriate text to the scroll, making the yellow border narrower and making the black border around the cross thicker.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 22, 2024, 02:08:30 PM
I could use some input on the swordsmen's shields. I've just completed the back rank and something about their shields looks off to me. I'm questioning my decision to give the crosses a black border and to highlight that border. What do you think?

(http://i.imgur.com/ZQg3UIVh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ZQg3UIV)

Unfortunately I've already painted the shields on 10 miniatures so it would be a bit of a shame to redo them, but better late than never.  :unsure:
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: commandant on October 22, 2024, 02:12:09 PM
I would paint the skull in the  middle white and see if that helps.   The look really nice though
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Naitsabes on October 23, 2024, 10:15:04 PM
Shields don't look so off to me (other then that I always thought these shields are a tad larger for the lads). but bringin out the skull is a good idea. white is a good choice. or maybe silver or even gold?
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 30, 2024, 04:30:24 PM
It's been more than a week since my last post. I've made a lot of progress on the swordsmen but I don't have any finished models to show just yet.

Thanks for the suggestions! I've tried two alternatives:

(http://i.imgur.com/DqavP2Zh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/DqavP2Z)

Don't mind the exact colours too much. They're actually identical, only with different lighting. The left picture is closest to reality. Left is the original, middle is the original only with yellow borders and right is the original only with yellow borders and a bone-coloured skull. I'm erring toward the middle one. Bold, plain and simple. What do you guys think?

I've also shaded the cannon's barrel because it was looking a bit flat in retrospect. I used a 50/50 dark tone/flow medium mix. Quite an improvement, I think.

(http://i.imgur.com/4Nz8As5h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/4Nz8As5)

Finally, here's a new iteration on the swordsmen's flag, plus the earlier version for comparison:

(http://i.imgur.com/5n2Q6FHm.png) (https://imgur.com/5n2Q6FH) (http://i.imgur.com/fcHt84nm.png) (https://imgur.com/fcHt84n)
(left: old, right: new)

The yellow border is slightly thinner, the coat of arms bigger and there's new lettering on the scroll. Interested in any suggestions, as always!

I deliberately chose an old-looking font because it seemed more appropriate than caps locked Times New Roman or whatever the source material used. 'Duty - Honour' is a bit bland but it does sum up Empire swordsmen well enough. I could've used 'Altdorf' but that would've been boring. I experimented with draping the scroll around the cross but that became a tangled mess.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: commandant on October 30, 2024, 09:23:09 PM
I would consider combining. I like picking out the skull a lot
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on November 03, 2024, 09:44:30 AM
After some more deliberation (a lot actually :biggriin:) I chose the all-yellow cross. Without further ado, here are the swordsmen regiment's four back ranks:

Fifth rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/AkMiDKJh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/AkMiDKJ)

Fourth rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/5K2dCdOh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5K2dCdO)

Third rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/s5xv8Yih.jpg) (https://imgur.com/s5xv8Yi)

Second rank:
(http://i.imgur.com/GBMnk62h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/GBMnk62)

The connoisseurs among you will have noticed I mixed in a few militia parts in this regiment when I assembled it way back when. I would no longer do this except for the occasional head swap because it makes them look a bit less clean than they could be. There are few enough militia parts that it doesn't change the unit's overall appearance though, so no need to change it now. In terms of individual models, the swordsman with the studded leather armour in the second rank is actually my favourite so far. I used Vallejo 70.875 Beige Brown with a dark tone wash on the armour as I was experimenting in preparation for the regiment's free company detachment. I've been only using black and dark grey for leather parts so far, which would be rather limiting when painting a free company. I feel the reddish brown I used in the original red-and-black scheme detracts too much from the actual red.

Next up, you guessed it: the unit's front rank including the champion, musician and standard bearer. The flag should be quicker and easier than the last one, as I keep telling myself...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on November 05, 2024, 03:32:05 PM
I love seeing a regiment like this come together. Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Sharkbelly on November 11, 2024, 01:22:31 AM
Agreed! More, please!  :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on November 11, 2024, 12:57:38 PM
Dear GW PLEASE bring back those kits. There was nothing wrong with them
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on November 12, 2024, 11:57:38 AM
Docking a few points for fragile halberds. Otherwise, it's an amazing kit.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on November 12, 2024, 01:21:16 PM
^
I dont care what people say about the old Empire and Catachan kits. At least you could pose them and arm them however you wanted. The modern equivalents are too fiddly and parts heavy.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Zygmund on November 12, 2024, 05:15:42 PM
Beautiful!

Love the two Swordsmen units. Especially the red & black one.

-Zyg
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on November 16, 2024, 03:48:21 PM
Thanks for the encouragement one and all!  :smile2:

Quote from: Albrecht von Hinkel on November 12, 2024, 11:57:38 AM
Docking a few points for fragile halberds. Otherwise, it's an amazing kit.

I'll second that.

Quote from: Rowsdower on November 12, 2024, 01:21:16 PM
^
I dont care what people say about the old Empire and Catachan kits. At least you could pose them and arm them however you wanted. The modern equivalents are too fiddly and parts heavy.

Modern plastic kits frequently seem to have too many dramatic poses. They look great individually but duplicates are too obvious and they're hard to rank up/store/game with. The models also aren't segmented in logical ways so kitbashing is a real chore. The old Empire and Catachan kits have that much going for them, at least.

Quote from: Zygmund on November 12, 2024, 05:15:42 PM
Beautiful!

Love the two Swordsmen units. Especially the red & black one.

-Zyg

Good thing I took pictures of them before repainting them red, blue and yellow then!  :biggriin: Perhaps the Altdorf boys will still be able to become your favourite once you see them as a completed unit? Keep watching this space...

Another flag, another case of procrastination being my worst enemy. I finally have something to show again though.

For this flag I'm using masking tape for the first time. Fingers crossed... It's not just useful for masking the borders, which are supposed to stay yellow, but also for marking the grid. The tape's easier to remove than pencil lines on the flag itself.
(http://i.imgur.com/rRalyBnm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/rRalyBn)

First up: red all over to define the cross.
(http://i.imgur.com/u7y5ONfm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/u7y5ONf)

Then blue.
(http://i.imgur.com/CvFte6Sm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/CvFte6S)

At this point I could no longer contain myself and removed the masking tape along the flag pole. Where it works it works great, but some paint still got underneath it in places. This was typical of all the borders. On the reverse side I'll try to get a better seal with the tape and use less diluted paint.
(http://i.imgur.com/iMfCviNm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/iMfCviN)

Some clean-up and freehand later, we have the contours of the shield and scroll.
(http://i.imgur.com/8wYuVHkm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/8wYuVHk)

Finally an all-but finished picture of this side of the flag plus a WiP shot of the swordsmen's command group.
(http://i.imgur.com/kmC3MgVl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kmC3MgV)

This side of the flag of course still needs to have letters on the scroll, and for that I'll have to widen the scroll in the middle a bit because the letters wouldn't fit right now. I'm not unhappy with the result so far and more importantly I'm now past the psychological hump posed by all the freehand work so the rest should go faster.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Sharkbelly on November 17, 2024, 08:00:34 AM
Looking good! It is quite the process, but the results are worth it!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on November 23, 2024, 09:03:10 AM
Thanks! Glad you like them.

I completed the swordsmen unit this week. Picture time! :biggriin:

(http://i.imgur.com/F9jBEiLh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/F9jBEiL")

(http://i.imgur.com/p5zIBugh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/p5zIBug")

(http://i.imgur.com/6VfCSgLh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/6VfCSgL")

(http://i.imgur.com/o7ZYCoeh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/o7ZYCoe")

(http://i.imgur.com/upeEdpyh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/upeEdpy")

(http://i.imgur.com/jG1hY8fh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/jG1hY8f")

Very happy with the flag. I'm sure the next one will come a bit more easily still than this one. One thing I like about the halved colour scheme on this unit is that it looks very different depending on the angle you're looking from. You don't get that with a quartered scheme, although I'll probably try that on the next main infantry unit to distinguish it from the spearmen and swordsmen.

For now though, it's time for something a bit easier and faster: pistoliers AKA horsey boys.

(http://i.imgur.com/Bt6KeAUh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/Bt6KeAU")

(http://i.imgur.com/eEcq041h.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/eEcq041")

I almost completed this unit way back when but never got around to their bases. You may be able to tell from the quality of the painting that this was one of the last units I painted for this army in the 2000s. The red-and-black scheme looks rather effective and it's a bit of a shame to paint over it, but needs must. They'll look better still in glorious red, blue and yellow. I'm thinking one red sleeve, one blue sleeve and a yellow feather for starters. Should be a fun little break from painting flag-toting infantry.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on November 26, 2024, 08:24:17 AM
 :Ohmy: Fantastic work!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Archilector_Malaga on December 03, 2024, 01:15:24 PM
Excellent work! That infantry unit looks great.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on December 09, 2024, 10:07:06 AM
Thanks guys!

Progress has been slower than I would have liked. I have only myself to blame because I've been distracted by Reus 2, a tile-placement puzzle game that is like candy for my brain. Time for a small update to get the paint juices flowing again! Here's a work-in-progress shot of two of the pistoliers:

(http://i.imgur.com/kcH6O4hl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/kcH6O4h)

I'm happy with the way the black armour, yellow feather and red and blue cloth of the uniform work together. You can really tell the difference of these sculpts compared to the 5th edition Empire plastics because folds in cloth and other details are much more pronounced. These have been less fiddly to paint as a result. The pistols are slightly oversized but it's not bad enough for me to want to break out the clippers. The pistoliers themselves still need to have their pistols and boots highlighted and then I'll call them done. For the horses, I'm repainting the saddle cloths blue with yellow trim. They used to be khaki, as can still be seen on the right model. That was just too drab. The yellow trim is revealing a problem I've been having with The Army Painter's quickshade washes generally. Most of the pigment seems to end up not in the deepest recesses but somewhere halfway between recess and high point. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

I'm still debating how bright to go with the saddle blankets. I don't want them to draw too much attention away from the riders, hence the Vallejo Imperial Blue basecoat, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to introduce this different shade of blue in the army. I'll probably repaint the horses' tack black like most other leather items in the army. That reminds me I still need to paint the straps on the pistoliers' legs that hold their leg armour in place. Back to work!

EDIT:

I'm not sure the black tack was such a good idea. It seems to highlight how disproportionately wide some of it is. Maybe I should just leave it reddish brown?  :-\

(http://i.imgur.com/5pdlNhil.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5pdlNhi)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Indio on December 11, 2024, 06:25:52 AM
Agree, prefer the reddish brown color. Can't wait to see this unit completed in all its bright colored glory!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on December 14, 2024, 12:28:47 PM
Not content to bow before the tyranny of reddish brown tack, I embarked on an ultimate attempt to find an alternative. I settled on red. Prospects seemed good. There is historical precedent (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Charlemagne_and_Pope_Adrian_I.jpg) for it and even examples of good-looking miniatures (https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/renaissance/products/renaissance-heavy-cavalry). Here's a side-by-side comparison of black, red and brown tack:

(http://i.imgur.com/pZmzXsfl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/pZmzXsf)

The result speaks for itself. It looks terrible, really. A few steps too far down the road of 90s red-era painting. I'm not sure if I could ever make it look good on this miniature. I think it worked on the Wargames Atlantic renaissance heavy cavalry because they used a more muted red, the riders don't have much red on them and the tack is clearly ornamental in nature. That's not the case with the pistoliers. A muted red might just work here too, but not while the pistoliers are wearing bright red. Good thing I was skeptical enough to try it on only part of one model. Back to reddish brown tack then, as everyone including a little voice in the back of my head has been telling me to. I'm not even disappointed. Not every idea pans out and it's been a good learning experience.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on December 18, 2024, 01:54:59 PM
Now for those pistoliers I've been teasing.  :happy:

(http://i.imgur.com/ak4LHrxl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ak4LHrx)

(http://i.imgur.com/baN9VUBl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/baN9VUB)

(http://i.imgur.com/V2xflgFl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/V2xflgF)

(http://i.imgur.com/gF8PkXul.jpg) (https://imgur.com/gF8PkXu)

(http://i.imgur.com/B4FXpRHl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/B4FXpRH)

(http://i.imgur.com/t3mIwdCl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/t3mIwdC)

The work-in-progress shots have basically ruined the surprise factor, but I'm happy with them. The colours work well together and I like this paint job better than I did the old one. Let's say the reddish brown tack has grown on me. ;D

In other news, good old St. Nicholas gifted me some super glue so I've finally been able to glue the cannon to its base. My old super glue from The Army Painter had completely dried out because the cap is apparently custom engineered to break after limited use. The new one from a model railway brand should hold out much better. I also received a number of magnetic sheets, which I'll be putting to good use soon...

(http://i.imgur.com/L6DQ7Oil.jpg) (https://imgur.com/L6DQ7Oi)

Finally, for something that's been in the works since October, here are some work-in-progress shots of my new captain. The first three are from dry-fitting the parts with blue tack.

(http://i.imgur.com/p2Z1x4Fl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/p2Z1x4F)(http://i.imgur.com/sEDjLoUl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/sEDjLoU)(http://i.imgur.com/v6vanCal.jpg) (https://imgur.com/v6vanCa)

The body and head are from the late 6th edition Empire general kit, the arms from the 6th edition knightly orders kit, and the halberd from the 6th edition militia kit. If you're well versed in Empire models you may be able to tell where I got my inspiration from. :D

(http://i.imgur.com/zneyizgl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/zneyizg)(http://i.imgur.com/gfPe90Cl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/gfPe90C)

"I don't fight the forces of Chaos every day. But when I do, I neither give nor expect quarter."

Note the holes I drilled in the halberd's blade and the greenstuff tassel and sash. Very pleased with how he's shaping up so far.  :happy:  He looks grizzled but still flashy enough to make for a convincing captain. The parts actually went together so well that it almost felt like the sculptors of the various kits I used all intended for the parts to be used just like this.

It's too windy and rainy to do any basecoating for now, so in terms of painting I'll probably see to the cannon's base and the six handgunners that I still had to repaint.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: Albrecht von Hinkel on December 19, 2024, 09:13:43 AM
Great work on the pistoliers (or are they Road Wardens?) and the inspired kitbash! How's the army overall looking now?
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army between Carroburg and Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on December 22, 2024, 05:36:25 AM
Thanks! They're definitely pistoliers. I'm building this army for 6th edition. As it stands now, it includes:

I'll post some group shots again once I've completed another 20isn infantry and a mortar.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on December 29, 2024, 11:18:38 AM
Another week, another update. It has been cold and wet here for weeks now, so unfortunately I haven't been able to prime the captain or any other models. Instead I've focused on repainting the last six handgunners from my old Carroburg army. Here they are!

(http://i.imgur.com/KEBRtcQh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/KEBRtcQ)

(http://i.imgur.com/1nmzZAZh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/1nmzZAZ)

I've removed Carroburg from the thread title in honour of these being the last models in Carroburg colours I had to repaint. Looking forward to working from white basecoats from now on. :) You'll notice quite a few scraggy grey beards with this lot. I figure that for all its wealth the city state of Altdorf probably does not offer its workers great pension plans, so it made sense to include some older soldiers. You may be able to tell from their uniforms that these models will be spread across three units. We have red/blue halved, blue/red halved and red/blue quartered. The units are sitting at 5 or 6 models each. Eventually I'd like to get them up to 10 each, including a marksman with Hochland long rifle and a musician, but that's a plan for the longer term.

In the short term, I have 1 captain, 1 mortar with crew, 2 halberdiers and 12 free company to prime and paint. If the weather doesn't improve soon I'll have to think of something else to occupy myself. Maybe build movement trays or repaint some knights. To be continued...

------------

EDIT:

I've decided to just get to work on the free company. Black basecoats be damned. I know what I said about the handgunners being the last models in Carroburg colours I had to repaint, but technically it's not repainting if the models weren't finished in the first place, right? Right.  :biggriin:

Here they are in all their unfinished glory as I left them nearly two decades ago:

(http://i.imgur.com/bGk0hUJh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/bGk0hUJ")

(http://i.imgur.com/2sQqserh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/2sQqser")

These will of course be led by the demoted captain to bring them up to twelve models. Not too unhappy with the old paint jobs. The main thing I'd do differently today is change some of the poses, but these should be perfectly serviceable as they are. Since I took this picture I've already removed all mould lines that younger me missed and I'm very eager to get some paint on them. They're a very welcome diversion after painting 80-odd state troops.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on January 03, 2025, 01:19:07 PM
I've been painting up the free company. It's been a lot of fun but slow going because my process has been very haphazard as I've been trying out all sorts of different colours. I've put partial basecoats on several models so time to critique my own work.

My thinking with these three was that muted versions of my army's bright blue/red/yellow primary colours might look good. I'm happy with the look of the left and middle model, both using 70.982 Cavalry Brown to stand in for bright red. The blue's the same bright colour I've used on my state troops. The tan's will be the same I've used on my artillery crew's shirts (70.874 Tan Earth, 72.061 Khaki and 72.034 Bone White). These colours work well together and cavalry brown's a lovely paint. Covers very well and I love the hue. My only concern is how the cavalry brown will look in a unit where some models have bright red on them.

The right model continues my thinking that muted versions of my army's primary colours might look good, replacing bright blue with blueish grey (72.048 Sombre Grey). Somehow it's ended up looking... lilac?  :o Urgh. I'll be painting over those sleeves in a hurry.

(http://i.imgur.com/r6FqAqFh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/r6FqAqF)

The next two models share an unfortunate yellow placement mishap below the belt. I don't think the yellow works on the knee patch or the codpiece. The left model's trousers look slightly off to me too. I used 72.045 Charred Brown. Other than that, pretty happy with these models.

(http://i.imgur.com/2EmdSh7h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/2EmdSh7)

Finally the three models that I'm happiest with and that are furthest along:

(http://i.imgur.com/PAbUYgzh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/PAbUYgz)

After several painting sessions' experimentation, I've decided to change my process. I was basically trying every paint I had on at least part of some model. It's been fun and educational but it's time to narrow things down now. The above three models use the exact same palette as my state troops with only the addition of the dark brown on the left model's trousers (70.941 Burnt Umber). I didn't see a good place to put any yellow on these particular models, but it's still in the line-up for the odd feather or other detail. Once I've completed these three I'll evaluate my palette, especially whether cavalry brown is in or out. Of course if you have any thoughts on my choice of colours, I'd love to hear them.

Watch this space!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on January 09, 2025, 06:37:19 PM
Here's a quick and dirty snapshot to show the free company's current state.

(http://i.imgur.com/DYfurjTh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/DYfurjT")

The reds and blues are now where I think I'll keep them. Much as I like the reddish brown on the front row's three leftmost models, I don't think I'll repeat it. It doesn't look quite right to my eyes next to the bright red. In the second and third ranks there are three models with bright white on them that's due for a coat of yellow. It's been rather enjoyable seeing the puzzle pieces come together on this unit, hence the extra update. Still a lot to do, of course, but it feels like the tougher choices are now behind me.

I got a little adventurous with one model's trousers, which I decided should have red and blue stripes. My first attempt, on the left, had narrow blue stripes. I didn't work because it was hard to tell the blue stripes' colour from any reasonable distance. I've remedied that problem with by filling in half the red stripes with blue. Works for me, even if the close-up is very uncharitable to my freehand skills. More importantly, lesson learned about making red/blue bits big enough.

(http://i.imgur.com/VkkzzRgm.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/VkkzzRg")(http://i.imgur.com/0IxEWJvm.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/0IxEWJv")
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on January 22, 2025, 11:07:45 AM
I'm calling my free company done for now. Picture time!

(http://i.imgur.com/BP7B9rIl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/BP7B9rI)

You'll notice they don't have any static grass on their bases yet and not all base rims have been painted. I'm going to put the ones in the most difficult poses on multibases once I've painted up a few more. Right now they're a bit of a pain to rank up.

(http://i.imgur.com/XYaYUW0l.jpg) (https://imgur.com/XYaYUW0)

That's also the reason the demoted captain's not in the place of honour on the right side of the unit. For now I'll put it down to this unruly lot not standing on ceremony.

(http://i.imgur.com/LG2HpE6l.jpg) (https://imgur.com/LG2HpE6)

(http://i.imgur.com/srXVhiTl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/srXVhiT)

As the keen eyed among you may have noticed, I repainted the reddish brown on the three models from my last post. I think it's for the best even if the colour looked rather nice on its own. The dark brown overcoat on the rear ranker turned out especially well, I think.

(http://i.imgur.com/NGG7EKSl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/NGG7EKS)

(http://i.imgur.com/L10bJP7l.jpg) (https://imgur.com/L10bJP7)

(http://i.imgur.com/oq8KlFDl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/oq8KlFD)

(http://i.imgur.com/mcKGR15l.jpg) (https://imgur.com/mcKGR15)

Finally a shot of the free company next to a unit of properly uniformed state troops. I was wondering if the free company would fit in well enough with the state troops until I took this picture. I think the chosen colours are enough to tie them together.

(http://i.imgur.com/63cJW7Nl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/63cJW7N)

With that out of the way, all that's left to paint in this batch are a mortar, three gunners, two halberdiers and the new captain. The trouble with the Empire mortar of course is that you could hold a shell inside its barrel without barrel and shell even touching each other. Younger me never thought to fix that with green stuff, but I have. Not perfect but much better.

(http://i.imgur.com/iCvmUjml.jpg) (https://imgur.com/iCvmUjm)(http://i.imgur.com/qUG5ETbl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/qUG5ETb)

So here's what's next on the painting desk. I'm saving the new captain for last.

(http://i.imgur.com/PUBqnxil.jpg) (https://imgur.com/PUBqnxi)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Sharkbelly on January 25, 2025, 10:58:09 PM
Nice work! The barrel on the mortar looks much better.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Grudgie on January 26, 2025, 12:21:54 AM
Yea nice work on the mortar barrel I'm definitely stealing that haha
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on February 01, 2025, 04:15:22 PM
Thanks! I should point out that I'm only the last in a long line of Empire players who've done this to their mortars. I didn't come up with it.

Meanwhile I've been plugging away at the mortar crew and halberdiers in what little time I've had available, so here's a work-in-progress update.

(http://i.imgur.com/MyoPq7Hl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/MyoPq7H)

Most of the basecoats are down so it's 'just' a matter of highlighting and shading now. It was nice to be painting over a white basecoat again. The red especially was much easier to paint.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on February 03, 2025, 03:30:44 AM
Great job
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Degendorff on April 08, 2025, 06:09:31 PM
Just wanted to drop that this is my favourite Brush and Palette thread. I really like your bright colours! Looking forward to any update from your project!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: GamesPoet on April 08, 2025, 06:52:37 PM
I really like what you've done with the pistoliers, and the captain, outstanding!  :icon_cool: :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 02, 2025, 05:30:26 PM
Thank you very much for the kind words. You're making me blush!  :blush:

Update time! I finished that mortar crew and the two halberdiers that were still in the works.

(http://i.imgur.com/3GZoWl5h.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/3GZoWl5")

(http://i.imgur.com/yt8gEYFh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/yt8gEYF")

After half a year this project's off the back burner again. Quite happy with how this lot turned out. Next up will be the mortar and the captain plus a group shot of the entire 1,000 pt army and we'll see after that.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 04, 2025, 07:28:44 AM
I've put some basecoats on the captain, as you can see:

(http://i.imgur.com/7T0H9G2l.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/7T0H9G2")  (http://i.imgur.com/agRooF5l.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/agRooF5")

Even with just these few colours on the model, the scheme's starting to come together already. The armour will be black with gold details. Even as I'm typing this, I've just realised this will be reminiscent of the old 5th edition Empire army book front cover art (http://"https://www.picclickimg.com/i0cAAOSwiSlk9cyG/Empire-Army-Book-4th-Edition-Warhammer-Fantasy-1992.webp"). I never even intended for that to happen but here we are. :)

I'm happy with the balance between red, blue and yellow on the front but less so on the back. I think there's a bit too much blue there. Also, the blue on the upper back is making it painfully obvious that for whatever strange reason the model's cuirass doesn't cover his upper back and chest. I was vaguely aware that this might be a problem while I was converting the mini, but painting the offending bits blue has really driven home to me how off it looks. It's too late to remodel it now so the best I can do is to paint it a discreet colour to camouflage it. Maybe a straight black would be best? Some extra fancy gold trim on the pauldrons might help to draw the eye away as well. I'm also debating whether to paint the left trouser leg red to even up the red:blue ratio on the back. Keen to hear your thoughts!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Archilector_Malaga on August 04, 2025, 07:33:33 AM
Excellent job with that colourful and coherent army!

That captain will look great in black armour.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 16, 2025, 02:52:06 PM
Thanks Archilector!

The mortar's done. The freehand design on the carriage didn't quite turn out the way I hoped but I feel it's time to move on.

(http://i.imgur.com/WlBoUAIl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/WlBoUAI")

(http://i.imgur.com/ppdNk4Bl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/ppdNk4B")

The crewmen have had self-adhesive magnetic sheet applied to their bases to help with safe storage and transport. Self-adhesive in this case means self-removing. There just doesn't seem to be enough surface area to create a good durable bond. I'll have to fill up the base with some sort of material to increase the surface area and/or use super glue. (The mortar's base has a round neodymium magnet, which is working great.) For now these models are going into their assigned cookie tin so I can set my sights on that captain again.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on August 17, 2025, 02:11:40 PM
You can never have too many militia units
I'm jealous of this. At the moment, my house is being renovated and i cant do anything hobby related
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: commandant on August 17, 2025, 04:26:05 PM
That area of his back could be covered by his helmet though depending on what helmet he has.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 18, 2025, 08:07:09 AM
Quote from: Rowsdower on August 17, 2025, 02:11:40 PM
You can never have too many militia units
I'm jealous of this. At the moment, my house is being renovated and i cant do anything hobby related

Thanks!

Quote from: commandant on August 17, 2025, 04:26:05 PM
That area of his back could be covered by his helmet though depending on what helmet he has.

True, although it doesn't appear to be the case with the helmet he's holding. I guess I'll just stop worrying about it because it shouldn't be that noticeable once he's inside a unit anyway.

Here are two WiP shots of the captain. We're nearly there as you can see.

(http://i.imgur.com/OAvxaMIl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/OAvxaMI) (http://i.imgur.com/CjVtMPvl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/CjVtMPv)

The biggest things left to do are the metallics, highlighting the feather and fine tuning the furrows on his brow. I think the gold trim on his armour would look better if it's a bit brighter. The current gold colour is actually labeled as a brass. I'll probably give the laurel wreath an extreme highlight of silver to make it stand out more. I'm still not entirely satisfied with the blue shirt but I'm at a loss about what else to do with it and anyway it's so hard to reach because of the beard and pauldrons that I'll probably just leave it be.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd be happy to hear them!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on August 30, 2025, 05:43:25 PM
The captain's done!

(http://i.imgur.com/xJkGtFal.jpg) (https://imgur.com/xJkGtFa)(http://i.imgur.com/D6P0Winl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/D6P0Win)

I'm pleased with how he's turned out. He'll be a worthy replacement for my old captain.

This completes the second 500-point chunk of the army, which means it's time for a group shot.

(http://i.imgur.com/tX3wAgMh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/tX3wAgM)

My phone camera sadly struggles to pick up all the details at this distance, but I think you'll get the idea. It was more gratifying to see the army all assembled like this than I had expected. It's given my motivation to paint a nice little boost. This begs the question what's next. Here's the list:

60   Wizard: lore of shadow
60   Wizard: lore of heavens
85   10 crossbowmen: musician
60   12 free company
123   5 Knights: musician
100   great cannon
488   

What's definitely first is the great cannon, because I already started on it while working on the mortar. For after that, I've picked a nice variety of models that will hopefully keep me engaged during this next leg. Let's go! :D
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on August 31, 2025, 03:05:42 PM
Great job on the old warhorse Captain
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 05, 2025, 07:27:54 AM
Thanks Rowsdower!

Update time again because the cannon's done. :D

(http://i.imgur.com/wqE0e6Ul.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/wqE0e6U")

(http://i.imgur.com/uGx9U8rl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/uGx9U8r")(http://i.imgur.com/bMTvBQIl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/bMTvBQI")

(http://i.imgur.com/oxNU3tYl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/oxNU3tY")

(http://i.imgur.com/uezEVRml.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/uezEVRm")

(http://i.imgur.com/XGLVlsOl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/XGLVlsO")

The pattern on the blue half of the carriage has more contrast in real life than the camera's showing. Very happy with how it's turned out. Picking the pattern was actually harder than painting it. I got it from a book called 'The Grammar of Ornament'. Apparently it originally was a page decoration in a medieval manuscript. Because it's a bit flowy any imperfections are harder to spot.

On to the next model: my shadow wizard.

(http://i.imgur.com/PuoZrutl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/PuoZrut")(http://i.imgur.com/DUoNeRol.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/DUoNeRo")(http://i.imgur.com/TK2TRN0l.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/TK2TRN0")(http://i.imgur.com/5h20M6Il.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/5h20M6I")

This is how I left him sometime in the late naughties. I'll be touching him up a bit as part of this project. It feels a bit like cheating to count him as a model to be painted, but that's shadow wizards for you! I wouldn't mind another quick win to give a sense of momentum.

I converted the wizard from mostly free company parts. The hat's a plasticard disk topped with greenstuff and the hair, belt and back of the cloak are also greenstuff. He's not quite up to my current standards but I'm happy to keep him on board. He's the most archetypal wizard I could make with the skills and parts I had at my disposal.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 08, 2025, 07:56:46 AM
The shadow wizard's done.

(http://i.imgur.com/s1fbi5Cl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/s1fbi5C)(http://i.imgur.com/BXEnw1Zl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/BXEnw1Z)(http://i.imgur.com/1zfMiucl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/1zfMiuc)(http://i.imgur.com/38c0fMNl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/38c0fMN)

The improvement isn't huge by any means, but hopefully you can tell the difference. I think it's most noticeable on the trousers, feathers and leather.

Time for the next batch of models, which will be five Reiksguard knights with a musician. Here's the unit as they were before:

(http://i.imgur.com/ZVqNMKRh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ZVqNMKR)

I left this unit in varying stages of completion way back when.

(http://i.imgur.com/UHKKk6jh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/UHKKk6j)

This side view shows it best. The middle model is the unit's original paint scheme with a rather ineffectual dusting of chaos black over it. That's because I was in the middle of repainting them into the scheme you see on the left and right model. They were to have black armour with silver trim, as can be seen on the left model. I never finished it though. The left model has lost its tail, a classic problem with these sculpts because the joint with the horse's backside is so small. Overall these sculpts haven't aged terribly well but I still like them enough to look forward to going to work on them.

My plan this time around is different again from my previous two schemes. I'm going for the classic Reiksguard scheme of shiny silver armour and red and white shields, plumes and lances. Reiksguard seem appropriate for an army from Altdorf and their colours should combine well with the infantry's exuberant uniforms.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 09, 2025, 10:07:56 PM
Excellent trip down memory lane. I started with my son who was 12 when I got him the 6th Ed starter in 2005 . Fell in love with the hobby and still love it. Desciples of Sigmar army, Regular empire (own army) ork , goblin , high elves, Dwarf, Tzeentch in warhammer, dark angels, Gaurdians of the Coventant, Oks, valhallan imperial, sisters of battle in 40K, AoS Cities of Sigmar - Matorean Army (Thanks GP) , Stormcast, skaven, beastmen, slaves of Darkness, Ogre Mawtribe, Gloomspite Gits.  Dragon Rampart various groups ( again thanks GP). Untold 40K, Warhammer, AoS books read. Now looking at the new 'Old World' have my eyes on the Cathay army
Presently without a hobby room. Maybe Next year.
My son and I still collect and build. He's 32 now, I'm 61 lol
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 10, 2025, 12:04:00 PM
Glad to be of service.  :happy: That's quite the trip down memory lane! Whoever was it that said some of their fondest memories are of old toys from their childhood? It seems pertinent, even if I've probably butchered it.

Speaking of which, I've been experimenting on my Reiksguard knights to find a good armour recipe. Here's a side-by-side comparison of my three attempts:

(http://i.imgur.com/iFJZejbl.jpg) (https://imgur.com/iFJZejb)

(http://i.imgur.com/JVQMi46l.jpg) (https://imgur.com/JVQMi46)

Going from left to right, we have:
No. 1: Vallejo 77.712 steel basecoat, 50/50 Army Painter dark tone/flow medium shade applied selectively, 70.864 natural steel highlight, 72.052 silver highlight
No. 2: 70.864 natural steel basecoat, 50/50 dark tone/flow medium shade applied all over, 70.864 natural steel drybrush, 72.052 silver highlight
No. 3: 77.712 steel basecoat, 50/50 dark tone/flow medium shade applied selectively, 70.864 natural steel drybrush, 72.052 silver highlight

No. 1 has the best shading in my opinion, but the overall effect is too dark and the transition from basecoat to first layer is too stark. No. 2 is better in terms of brightness and transitions, but is much less shiny than the others because the dark tone wash dulls down everything it touches. No. 3's the brightest and shiniest, but the shading is not quite as good as on no. 1. I'm definitely leaning towards no. 3. I want these to be knights in shining armour much like the Reiksguard from GW's old studio army, only with better shading. No. 3 comes closest to that ideal. I'll paint their horses an extra dark shade of brown to make the armour look even brighter by comparison. Unfortunately I can't use the same trick on their shields and plumes because then they'd cease to be Reiksguard.

I don't think I've every put so much thought into metallics. Usually I just put down a single coat of whichever colour seems best, maybe shade it once and leave it at that, but that just wasn't an option with these models. It's been fun and educational for me to try harder with my metallics! I found Vallejo's special metallics range make for great basecoats. The mica particles have been ground to a really fine size so these paints are highly reflective and very smooth. Unfortunately they're really designed to be used with an airbrush so they're too runny for selective application with a brush in my experience. If anyone has any tips for shading metals without dulling them down, I'd love to hear them because Army Painter's dark tone just eats up the shine.

Another thing I'm still mulling is the colour for the lances and saddles. No. 1 is just a dark red; no. 2 is the same dark red mixed with a dark brown. No. 2 looks closer to what I'm trying to emulate (https://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110512084923/warhammerfb/images/thumb/0/02/Knights_of_the_Empire.jpg/500px-Knights_of_the_Empire.jpg) and is also more in line with my own plan to offset the bright armour with dark colours elsewhere on the model, but that dark red on no. 1 does look rather nice...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on September 10, 2025, 02:17:40 PM
Damn the renovations. I'm busting out some stuff tomorrow to build
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 10, 2025, 06:19:22 PM
No butchery going on here. Looking fantastic
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 11, 2025, 07:23:16 AM
Quote from: Rowsdower on September 10, 2025, 02:17:40 PM
Damn the renovations. I'm busting out some stuff tomorrow to build

Cool! Let us know how it goes.

Quote from: Artobans Ghost on September 10, 2025, 06:19:22 PM
No butchery going on here. Looking fantastic

Thanks!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on September 11, 2025, 02:08:23 PM
I was only able to do a bare minimum today. I undercoated eight guardsmen from my Sharpe's Rifles Mordian army. I couldn't get to my bits box, so 'Big sergeant with multi-barreled rifle' will have to wait for a left arm
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 12, 2025, 05:12:44 PM
Nice! I'll call any day a good day if I get to break out the hobby stuff. Any amount of progress is progress.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 15, 2025, 12:02:59 PM
Here's a quick snapshot of my progress so far on the unit (picture links to a full-size version on imgur). The three models on the left are furthest along while the two on the right are playing catch-up.

(http://i.imgur.com/HKIZumRh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/HKIZumR)

On the leftmost model I tried to paint the red plume with ink. It looks OK but the paint I used on the other two is much more vibrant so I'll be using that from now on. The dark red lance has grown on me so I'll (re)paint all lances in that colour. I also painted the ribbon on the back of the leftmost knight's helmet and the rope on his horse's tail yellow. I was inspired by this paint job (https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerFantasy/comments/1bon0rm/empire_reiksguard_knights/) I found online. I really like the splash of extra colour so will be doing that across the unit. I picked a very subdued green for the laurels. It doesn't look bad but I think I'll also try something more vibrant just to make sure I'm not making a terrible mistake. ;) Finally, I painted the thing below the leftmost knight's saddle dark blue. It doesn't look right to me in that colour. Also, I still don't know what it's actually supposed to be. It could be a saddle blanket, part of the saddle or a piece of barding called a flanchard, which protects the horse's side. The shape doesn't really fit any of those though. I've decided to just paint it the same dark red as the saddle to end the analysis paralysis.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on September 15, 2025, 12:05:53 PM
I miss being able to buy those in a nice, boxed set right off the shelf.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 22, 2025, 02:03:31 PM
Here's the completed unit of Reiksguard knights:

(http://i.imgur.com/ST5Upu2h.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/ST5Upu2")
(http://i.imgur.com/6PZqedWh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/6PZqedW")
(http://i.imgur.com/9UWti5xh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/9UWti5x")
(http://i.imgur.com/2b5vYgNh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/2b5vYgN")
(http://i.imgur.com/VrYBLWWh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/VrYBLWW")
(http://i.imgur.com/7UjkgVyh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/7UjkgVy")

As you can see I went with a more vivid green for the laurels. I think it plays off the red better than the drab green I tried first.

Here's a close-up of the freehand design I painted on the cloth hanging from the musician's trumpet. Since the Reiksguard are Emperor Karl Franz's personal bodyguard I thought it appropriate to paint the emperor's personal monogram of a stylised K and F on the cloth. The first shot is work in progress. I used a medium grey to trace the letters' basic shape so any mistakes are more easily corrected than if I'd used black right away. As you can see from the photos it was necessary to make a few adjustments to the shape here and there. The monogram is straight from 'Uniforms and Heraldry of the Empire', which is still a great resource. It's actually one of the easier designs I had to choose from because it doesn't require any highlighting or shading nor does it feature perfect geometric shapes like circles or squares. I find these challenging to paint because any mistakes are very easily spotted.

(http://i.imgur.com/qCO6xGsl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/qCO6xGs")(http://i.imgur.com/7XJT1Ywl.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/7XJT1Yw")

Next up: 10 crossbowmen.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 26, 2025, 05:27:20 PM
Now for those crossbowmen I've been teasing. I want mine to be state troops rather than militia but don't want to use those metal crossbow arms from 5th edition (you know the ones (https://miniset.net/sets/gw-60110202101)). I've decided to convert them out of the handgunners that came in the 6th edition starter box, of which I have plenty. Here are the first two partially complete.

(http://i.imgur.com/VrznkYih.jpg) (https://imgur.com/VrznkYi)

The crossbows are from the ever-useful militia box. The two biggest difficulties of this conversion are getting the crossbows to line up with handgunners' hands and using green stuff to touch up the areas where I removed handgunner equipment like cartridges and powder horns. The model on the right is a relatively easy conversion because he's using only one hand to handle his handgun/crossbow. I don't want a monopose unit though, so will include at least one of each of the four handgunner poses. Headswaps will hopefully do some extra lifting to make it less obvious how few different models there really are.

I've also been experimenting with magnetic bases and movement trays. This crossbowman has had his base glued to a sheet magnet. He's standing on a movement tray made out of plasticard sandwiched between steel sheet (top) and magnetic sheet (bottom). It works in the sense that I can put this combination inside a cookie tin, handle it very roughly and not have it move a millimetre. Actually removing casualties from the unit is however made hazardous by the strength of the magnets. You have to exert a lot of force, for which you need to grab the model itself rather than the base, and you risk crashing your hand into the other models as you overcome the inertia. Not sure where to go from here. Perhaps I could glue some paper on top of the steel sheet to weaken the bond between the model and the movement tray? Any ideas would be welcome.

(http://i.imgur.com/5y5ImPuh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/5y5ImPu)

If I go ahead with this design, I'll of course also add a plasticard strip along the front and sides to help keep the models in place. I've decided to go with a straight-up goblin green edge rather than something beveled and flocked to match the tops of the models' bases. It's the only right way. 8)
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: commandant on September 28, 2025, 10:50:43 AM
I use Green Stuff World magnets as my base with plastic card over them and then the rubber steel as the movement tray with plastic card under it.

I find that if you slide the casualty especially off the base it works well. I haven't thought of using paper over the rubber steel.
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on September 28, 2025, 11:37:26 AM
If you're having trouble getting the models to rank up, then try larger bases
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on September 30, 2025, 06:14:15 PM
Quote from: commandant on September 28, 2025, 10:50:43 AM
I use Green Stuff World magnets as my base with plastic card over them and then the rubber steel as the movement tray with plastic card under it.

I find that if you slide the casualty especially off the base it works well. I haven't thought of using paper over the rubber steel.

Hey thanks! I use Green Stuff World magnets too so maybe it's just a matter of getting used to them.

Quote from: Rowsdower on September 28, 2025, 11:37:26 AM
If you're having trouble getting the models to rank up, then try larger bases

Not a problem so far thankfully although it took some doing with these relatively chunky models.

In the meantime I've done most of the modelling work on my brand new crossbow unit:

(http://i.imgur.com/YV1Y0SVh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/YV1Y0SV)

(http://i.imgur.com/nFwIfcZh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/nFwIfcZ)

Headswaps weren't easily possible on the models that were aiming their handguns, so I opted for two hat swaps instead. The kettle helmets are from the militia box. They look just a bit old fashioned but the feathers help to tie them in with the rest of the unit. I debated converting the drummer out of a handgunner but thought better of it because of the amount of work involved. This one's unfortunately in a marching pose but it's not too noticeable when the unit is ranked up. I can always come back later to replace him if it ends up bothering me.

I'm quite pleased with how they've turned out. Now to do all the gap filling this evening so I can still basecoat them tomorrow, which will be the last dry day for a while here...
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 03, 2025, 08:52:49 AM
Quick and dirty paint bench update:

(http://i.imgur.com/XUSGzDHh.jpg) (http://"https://imgur.com/XUSGzDH")

Since I've attached sheet magnets to all the bases I can now use a metal-capped pill bottle as a painting handle. The blue tack I would normally use wasn't really working here because the models' bases are hollow so sandwiching the blue tack between the magnetic sheet and bottle cap risks damaging the magnetic sheet or making it come loose. This new solution has the upside of less clutter on my painting bench with the downside of slightly more model handling every time I move on to the next model in the batch. For the movement tray I've just added plasticard rims on three sides of the 'sandwich' I showed in a previous post. Hopefully it'll be fine in spite of the strength of the magnets. Oh, and is that a wizard on the right there?

I've been really enjoying painting this unit and have been making good progress so far so expect some more news relatively soon!
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: Rowsdower on October 04, 2025, 07:36:59 AM
Great job
Title: Re: Frippery & Vacillation - an Empire army from Altdorf
Post by: PaxImperator on October 13, 2025, 07:56:02 AM
Thanks Rowsdower! I finished the crossbowmen this weekend. Boy is it nice to paint these colours over a white undercoat. I'm happy with how they've turned out, especially the neat look of the movement tray. Unfortunately my phone's camera appears to have eaten a lot of the highlights on the red and blue uniforms. You'll just have to take my word for it that they look better in real life. :)

(http://i.imgur.com/dInu5a3h.jpg) (https://imgur.com/dInu5a3)

(http://i.imgur.com/p6LkX3Wh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/p6LkX3W)

(http://i.imgur.com/QU0RjTph.jpg) (https://imgur.com/QU0RjTp)

(http://i.imgur.com/iTjwW0sh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/iTjwW0s)

(http://i.imgur.com/wexzXadh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/wexzXad)

(http://i.imgur.com/GDQvLLZh.jpg) (https://imgur.com/GDQvLLZ)

I've learned a few things from working on this unit. The large surface of the movement tray was too big to paint by hand. I struggled to get a nice even coat of paint on it. Next time I'll use a coloured spray primer. Hopefully I can find a close match for my goblin green. If not, a muted brown would work too. I'll still paint the rims goblin green by hand if necessary because it just completes the look. I'll also endeavour to be tidier with my green stuff and plasticard next time, but that's more of an incremental improvement than a whole new approach.