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Empire Discussion Forums => The Tactica Board => Topic started by: SoonerSox on June 18, 2015, 04:57:42 AM

Title: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: SoonerSox on June 18, 2015, 04:57:42 AM
Since undead do not flee from combat (this eliminates the negative aspect of the banner) and lose additional wounds based on combat resolution losses, it seems that the Griffon Banner would be amazing vs them. Even at 60 points it seems that it could be a game changer.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 18, 2015, 06:56:14 AM
There is one big drawback: the Griffon Banner can only be taken by the BSB, who then cannot take any magical items. As such, his chances of surviving more than a round are rather slim against VC (units of skeletons and zombies excluded).
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Jomppexx on June 18, 2015, 09:35:45 AM
There is one big drawback: the Griffon Banner can only be taken by the BSB, who then cannot take any magical items. As such, his chances of surviving more than a round are rather slim against VC (units of skeletons and zombies excluded).
If you find a way of hiding the BSB in the second rank of a unit you could take it.
I've played some games with Ogres now and it's pretty common for my BSB to hide away with a magic banner, like Runemaw.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 18, 2015, 11:40:08 AM
For Ogres, it is far easier, of course, as they usually need only 3 models in a rank for CR/steadfast.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Jomppexx on June 18, 2015, 02:22:59 PM
For Ogres, it is far easier, of course, as they usually need only 3 models in a rank for CR/steadfast.
True. A unit with full command that is 3 wide can bump it's characters out of enemy reach.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: SoonerSox on June 18, 2015, 02:42:15 PM
The BSB would definitely need some spell buffs in that regard. I guess an empire player could always do the unthinkable and run a block of Greatswords which allow for a magic banner.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 18, 2015, 03:30:59 PM
Not quite sure, if you imply this, but GS cannot take the Griffon Banner.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: SoonerSox on June 18, 2015, 08:08:21 PM
I did imply that. I guess I don't know their specific rule concerning magical banners.
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 18, 2015, 08:12:38 PM
Given that Combat Resolution is such a game breaker in this edition, Cruddace made sure that virtually no one can or will take the Griffon Banner: it can be taken only by a character, and even if it did not, the point cost (60 points) exceeds the maximum allowed for any Empire unit. 
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: CarolineWellwater on June 18, 2015, 11:49:44 PM
(( SoonerSox,

The Griffon Banner could be useful against Vampire Counts, Undead Legions, Tomb Kings, and Daemons (anything with Unstable or Undead in their penalties)... could being the operative term.

As Fidelis said, with its point cost being 60, the only model who can take it is the BSB, and that puts him at a huge risk, for only a nominal (almost 0) gain.

If the Griffon Banner were 45 points, at least then Inner Circle Knights, Demigryphs, and Greatswords could think about taking it... but the banner's overall effect, plus its penalty, just doesn't make it worth it.  At 60 points, it should just double your rank bonus. ))
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 19, 2015, 07:04:44 AM
As I already pointed out above, it is not just the point cost: the rules of the Griffon Banner specify "a character bearing the Griffon banner" - ergo only a BSB. Even without any penalty or restriction, it would not be worth 60 points under the current rules. Perhaps if it also counted for steadfast (to a maximum of three ranks).
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: CarolineWellwater on June 19, 2015, 11:51:50 AM
((Hey Fidelis,

Interesting.  I guess I never noticed that on page 63 of the Empire book.  Or, if I did, I just assumed "character" meant "Standard Bearer".  There's also no clarification on the FAQ v1.2. 

As an aside, I went to compare the wording against that of the two banners in the Tomb King book.  Neither Tomb King banner has the "Character" restriction.

That restriction makes it even worse. ))
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Noble Korhedron on January 10, 2017, 07:50:22 PM
Agreed; even if the extra bonus was +D3, rolled each turn, it would b worth it; hopefully, the randomness could mean a drop to 50 pts, and not still not lose the option to pursue....?
Title: Re: How is Griffon Banner vs VC?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on January 10, 2017, 10:04:48 PM
There is a smell of theadomancy in the air...