Warhammer-Empire.com

The General Archive => The Town Square => Topic started by: Darknight on June 26, 2015, 11:12:59 PM

Title: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on June 26, 2015, 11:12:59 PM
So, the images of Age of Sigmar are released, and (at the very least) the aesthetic is very different. There is a lot to suggest that this IS the "new Empire" and that our Empire of codpieces and puff and slash is no more. 8th edition and the Empire that has existed for many years and through many editions isn't going to be supported.

Grutch (good man!) says he will keep the website open for as long as people are interested.

I think we need to have a discussion - mods and owners and people all - and decide how we are going to move forward with the forum. By this I mean; what sort of boards and other things do we need on the site to ensure participation continues?

Here are my suggestions;

1) First and foremost, the forum remains "Warhammer Empire". That is, the primary focus of the site is the game Warhammer (as in, Classichammer) and the Empire (as in, the Empire from Classichammer). Other things can and should be discussed - but the majority of the boards should be related to that.

So, the "Empire Discussion Forums" should remain in place. Perhaps we might want to expand them out with separate boards or subboards for specific versions of Classichammer.

2) We should expand the "Count's Tavern" to be a section, rather than a single board. There should be boards on there for Age of Sigmar, 40K - but also for other games such as Kings of War, Shav's new game, Warmachine or whatever people are playing enough to justify its own board. There can be a generic board for "everything else"

3) The Brush & Palette should remain of course, but it can be for ALL painting (even for AoS and other games). Or, we could have subboards for it - but I think keeping it all together would be good. Everyone loves good painting - even if it's not for a game we play.

These are just my suggestions to keep this place going. It is VERY clear to me that the majority of people aren't on fire for Age of Sigmar, but do - in general - love Warhammer and Empire, and also like many other games. There is a LOT of interest on the forum for games other than GW ones and I think giving them their own boards would help keep the interest alive. Mods could even assign specific members to be in charge of specific boards to reduce the load on the mod team.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Zygmund on June 27, 2015, 03:02:18 PM
Foremostly: a big THANK YOU for Grutch & co for the promise of keeping this forum up!  :::cheers::: :::cheers::: :::cheers:::

It's good to make some plans beforehand & have them handy if the bad comes to worse.
Those suggestions by Darknight seem rational. I would have nothing against them.

Then again, it's good to wait and see what kind of posts keep pouring in the coming months. Because if there's no big change in what and where the people post, the forum organization need not change markedly. (Edit: The other persistent rumor still is that something grander will come after the AoS, possibly an army-size game with decent support for older models.)

And of course, it's up to Grutch, Bugman & co to really decide. Maybe we should wait for them to open the discussion, if/when they feel like it?

-Z
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: valmir on June 27, 2015, 03:41:44 PM
I don't know that a Big Serious Discussion is necessary at this point. We don't even know really what AoS actually IS. Certainly I think space should be made on the boards for discussion of that game, whether in the Counts Tavern or the main section (along with the Elector's Forum). But I don't see why this can't really just happen organically, or determined responsively as we see (a) what the nature of the new game is; and (b) what sort of traffic/needs it actually has.

Certainly, I don't get why AoS needs to prompt some kind of existential crisis with regard to the forum. People will either continue playing Oldhammer, in which case nothing really needs to change, or people will jump ship to other systems, in which case the forum can already accommodate this within its existing structure (sub-forums added as needed, just as they were for 40k), or people will update to AoS or whatever, in which case the forum can surely accommodate that also.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on June 27, 2015, 06:50:57 PM
This seems to be jumping the gun.  If "Warhammer: Age of Sigmar"  is just a skirmish game, and something gets developed and released along the way that is more Empire oriented, then changing this site prematurely is a waste of time and energy.  There's no guarantee that GW will be brilliant enough to continue providing an Empire option, but the End of Times stuff, if it means anything (no guarantee on that either), it doesn't mean there can't be a branch of this hobby still for the Empire.  I recommend going slowly and cautiously to see how things develop before making significant changes based on what little information we have at this time.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: patsy02 on June 27, 2015, 11:54:41 PM
It's a bit early to rebrand, probably. It's warhammer-empire, not warhammer-aos after all.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on June 27, 2015, 11:57:07 PM
I think my vision was there would be NO rebranding - that this would be an oldhammer forum. Because there are very few people even considering playing AoS, but there are loads wanting to stick with oldhammer.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Xathrodox86 on June 28, 2015, 04:32:09 PM
I think my vision was there would be NO rebranding - that this would be an oldhammer forum. Because there are very few people even considering playing AoS, but there are loads wanting to stick with oldhammer.

I like that. This palce has certainly the "Oldhammer" feel and not the AoS one. :-P
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Reiksguard 1485 on July 04, 2015, 05:31:48 PM
I'm still a new guy around here, so not sure if my opinion really counts... If you're interested, however, I would wholeheartedly back Darknight's proposals.

Reading the AoS rules was depressing, and I cannot deny that in my opinion the Sigmarines are some of the most atrocious things GW have ever made. Including Skullmunchers (or whatever the Khorne things released with ET:Archaon were called).
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 04, 2015, 05:38:15 PM
I'm still a new guy around here, so not sure if my opinion really counts.

Counts just as much as mine does.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 08, 2015, 06:44:59 PM
I just posted this elsewhere;

I get it - people don't like the game. It's out now and what it is very clear. It's NOT Warhammer Fantasy Battle. There is no Empire in it. Absolutely, GW blew up the world.

I am just genuinely puzzled about the fact people who hate the game are constantly posting in the threads about it, complaining and being upset. 8th edition is still a thing - loads of people are saying "my group is EEFL" and Chumley just started a thread calling for revisions to preserve it. There are two or three threads about preserving it.

This site is Warhammer-Empire - so, Warhammer and the Empire as they have existed for a long time. AoS doesn't have either of those things in in any meaningful way. Other settings, other games (40K, Magic the Gathering, Bolt Action, all of that) are discussed on this site too, and people talk about general painting and modelling stuff.

There have been threads about reorganizing the forum, so AoS gets its own little place - like 40K has. I think it's likely to be a big enough "thing" so that it has its own sub-forum, rather than just a thread like Bolt Action or Magic etc.

But I really think that should be done ... for both groups of people. Right now, people who want to have a discussion about AoS are constantly having to deal with complaining and, frankly, insulting posts (see above post about AoS being for people too dumb to walk and chew gum) and anti-AoS people are seeing the Electors' Forum filled with stuff they hate.

It's causing a lot of unpleasantness, and it doesn't need to be. I dislike Magic the Gathering - so I don't go into that thread! Heck, I dislike the off-topic conversations, so I actually got 'Soth to remove my access to it!

This is my call and request; the creation of two things;

1) A sub-forum in the Count's Tavern called "Age of Sigmar" on the pattern of the 40K forum for AoS threads.
2) A user-category called "EEFL" which (like "Pure of Heart") prevents the Age of Sigmar forum from being accessed.

There is just unpleasantness - because there are people who hate AoS and what has happened, and there are people who like it. And both groups are sniping and snipping at it each other.

I think we can all agree we ALL like painting and collecting toy soldiers. The vast majority of us like Warhammer Fantasy Battle and a majority collect Empire. Pretty much all of us collect Games Workshop stuff.

Do we have to be like this?

There isn't a mechanism for formal requests of that sort I can see, so I am making it here. This forum is becoming less and less pleasant because of this antagonism, because of the upsetedness of the anti-AoS players and the infuriating (to them) positivity of the pro-AoS people.

This forum has always been primarily Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Empire. But it has also always had the opportunity to discuss other GW games (of which AoS is one), wargames in general, gaming in general, and painting and modelling.

AoS threads being in a place where the EEFL crowd are constantly exposed to them isn't fair to them - it is filling the forum about the thing they love with something they hate.

For the sake of good order on the forum and general pleasantness, I am asking the moderation team to consider my suggestions.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Dotification on July 09, 2015, 08:35:40 AM
^^^
"     "

everything he just said

Before it gets too ugly in here, compared to the rest of the internet . . .
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Captain Fearless on July 09, 2015, 12:55:18 PM
I joined this forum new to warhammer and proud to be a freshly minted Empire player. I now play Khorne Daemonkin as well, and will soon be trying Age of Sigmar.

None of these things are mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: DariusZero on July 09, 2015, 02:14:57 PM
I just posted this elsewhere;

I get it - people don't like the game. It's out now and what it is very clear. It's NOT Warhammer Fantasy Battle. There is no Empire in it. Absolutely, GW blew up the world.

I am just genuinely puzzled about the fact people who hate the game are constantly posting in the threads about it, complaining and being upset. 8th edition is still a thing - loads of people are saying "my group is EEFL" and Chumley just started a thread calling for revisions to preserve it. There are two or three threads about preserving it.

This site is Warhammer-Empire - so, Warhammer and the Empire as they have existed for a long time. AoS doesn't have either of those things in in any meaningful way. Other settings, other games (40K, Magic the Gathering, Bolt Action, all of that) are discussed on this site too, and people talk about general painting and modelling stuff.

There have been threads about reorganizing the forum, so AoS gets its own little place - like 40K has. I think it's likely to be a big enough "thing" so that it has its own sub-forum, rather than just a thread like Bolt Action or Magic etc.

But I really think that should be done ... for both groups of people. Right now, people who want to have a discussion about AoS are constantly having to deal with complaining and, frankly, insulting posts (see above post about AoS being for people too dumb to walk and chew gum) and anti-AoS people are seeing the Electors' Forum filled with stuff they hate.

It's causing a lot of unpleasantness, and it doesn't need to be. I dislike Magic the Gathering - so I don't go into that thread! Heck, I dislike the off-topic conversations, so I actually got 'Soth to remove my access to it!

This is my call and request; the creation of two things;

1) A sub-forum in the Count's Tavern called "Age of Sigmar" on the pattern of the 40K forum for AoS threads.
2) A user-category called "EEFL" which (like "Pure of Heart") prevents the Age of Sigmar forum from being accessed.

There is just unpleasantness - because there are people who hate AoS and what has happened, and there are people who like it. And both groups are sniping and snipping at it each other.

I think we can all agree we ALL like painting and collecting toy soldiers. The vast majority of us like Warhammer Fantasy Battle and a majority collect Empire. Pretty much all of us collect Games Workshop stuff.

Do we have to be like this?

There isn't a mechanism for formal requests of that sort I can see, so I am making it here. This forum is becoming less and less pleasant because of this antagonism, because of the upsetedness of the anti-AoS players and the infuriating (to them) positivity of the pro-AoS people.

This forum has always been primarily Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Empire. But it has also always had the opportunity to discuss other GW games (of which AoS is one), wargames in general, gaming in general, and painting and modelling.

AoS threads being in a place where the EEFL crowd are constantly exposed to them isn't fair to them - it is filling the forum about the thing they love with something they hate.

For the sake of good order on the forum and general pleasantness, I am asking the moderation team to consider my suggestions.

I don't get it, why do you bother reading the "anti-aos" posts in the ffirst place, if they upset you so much? Just skip them, for gods sake, internet is not and will never be a nursery room. Your complaining is so over all the place that it's difficult to avoid your crying posts as much as I try. The forum is called Warhammer and Empire, of both that AOS is neither, so why would we the warhammer empire fans have to jump off your route, jsut to make you happy?
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 09, 2015, 03:45:06 PM
It's hard to avoid the anti-AoS posts for the same reason, I guess, it's hard to avoid my posts - they are mingled in with the threads.

And the argument is that this forum should remain Warhammer and Empire - but that it should also have support for other games (as it does for 40K) from GW; such as AoS.

There are Magic the Gathering threads, and threads for Orcs & Goblins etc. And because I don't find those interesting, I avoid them. But I can imagine that if I did find them interesting, and went there, and found there were posts negative towards Magic the Gathering there, constantly posted, it would be wearing.

Yes, this forum is Warhammer and Empire. And it should be for people who like Warhammer and Empire. But it has also always - as long as I have been here - a place involving other games and aspects of the hobby. And there hasn't ever been, until now, a tendency for people to denigrate and attack others' hobbies and games.

You say "this is the internet" as if that either excuses or justifies unpleasantness. It doesn't - because this place never had that before.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: valmir on July 09, 2015, 03:59:16 PM
But the line between WFB and AoS is obviously a lot more problematic than the other examples you cite, Darknight.

I get your point, but this is not just "another system". This is the replacement for WFB. Which spells the end of WFB. And yes, you can continue playing 8th, but they'll stop making the models at some point. And it will become harder and harder to find a group of players for it.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 09, 2015, 04:05:18 PM
All of which has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with this forum.

Yes, it is going to be harder for people to play Warhammer 8th Ed (or previous editions) for the reason you cite. But that does not mean it is NOT going to be played. There are a load of "EEFL" people out there - many on this forum. They want to continue to play Warhammer and Empire. And there are people who play both.

There is nothing in my ideas which suggest this forum should become exclusively or even primarily an AoS forum. Rather, I am saying two things about AoS;

1) It is a significant enough game that it deserves (like 40K has) its own sub-forum for discussions.
2) It is so contentious an issue that people should be able to choose - if they wish - to avoid those discussions.

Right now, if you talk about 40K in the Elector's Forum, it will rightly get moved to the 40K forum. If you speak about painting, it gets moved to the B&P. If you speak about Bolt Action, it gets moved to the Counts Tavern. If you speak about religion or politics, it gets moved to the Back Table.

I am advocating a situation where there is a forum for AoS and conversations about AoS are started there, or get moved there by a mod.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Midaski on July 09, 2015, 05:06:43 PM
There was always bickering when WHFB changed editions and although this time it is heavier, the game hasn't even officially launched yet, and it's only a week since we saw some facts rather than rumours.

Maybe people should stop arguing - there is no need to ramp it up by responding to very post with an opposing view, as some people seem intent on doing.

2) It is so contentious an issue that people should be able to choose - if they wish - to avoid those discussions.

Exactly my point above.




1) It is a significant enough game that it deserves (like 40K has) its own sub-forum for discussions.

Significant  :icon_question: after a week is very debatable.
You might be proven to be correct in the future, when it might deserve the same treatment as 40K



The staff have been having ongoing discussions as I have said before. We will take out time and not be hurried, and will make any changes we feel necessary when we feel they are merited.
The prime consideration will be preserving the site and its future.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: valmir on July 09, 2015, 05:14:42 PM
All of which has nothing, or should have nothing, to do with this forum.

It has everything to do with this forum. This is a forum of people who were brought together by something that has just been deleted. The process of people coming to terms with AoS - the ups and the downs - is precisely what this community is currently going through.

I do agree with you that there should be a sub-forum. But when you talk about "denigrating others' hobbies and games", I completely lose you. Because nobody is. Everybody is denigrating the game that their own has been replaced with, not just some other game.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 09, 2015, 05:40:42 PM
I do not see that AoS is the replacement for Warhammer in that sense - not in the sense 8th was a replacement for 7th.

Rather, GW have stopped supporting Warhammer and have released AoS.

It's perhaps a subtle distinction, but it is one I would dearly love to make ... because that means Warhammer itself is still a game, and not just "the old edition". The two games are radically different.

I want the site to continue as Warhammer Empire, but I also want it to be somewhere where people can discuss all sorts of things without people getting attacked merely for liking a different game.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: valmir on July 09, 2015, 05:50:55 PM
Yes - it's an important distinction. And it's precisely this distinction that has everybody so butt-hurt, i think.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: valmir on July 09, 2015, 05:54:12 PM
Also - has anyone ACTUALLY been attacked for liking it? I've seen a lot of people attacking the game, and attacking gw, but very little attacking ither people.

Any umpleasantness that I've seen has stemmed from people's inability to understand why others might not recognise the validity of their (subjective, non-mutually-exclusive) views and feelings.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 09, 2015, 06:28:21 PM
Things such as "only children would like this" or "this is a game for people too stupid to breathe on their own" have been said. And people have been called shills for GW etc. etc.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: valmir on July 09, 2015, 06:57:23 PM
Fair enough. Although I certainly read the "children's game" comment in a very different way from how you obviously did.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: The Real Rick Salamone on July 10, 2015, 03:34:09 AM
Please take this in the most positive way possible:

EEFL!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: The Real Rick Salamone on July 10, 2015, 03:36:40 AM
All joking aside, GW has now left our hobby unattended, abandoned, and discarded. We, the EEFL community, are highly competent gamers and hobbyists. Warhammer belongs to us now and we will treat it with the passion and reverence that it deserves.

EEFL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 07:43:03 AM
This forum is "Warhammer" and "Empire" and "Warhammer Empire".

Now read the logo of Age of Sigmar again..
I most definatly see "Warhammer" standing there in bigger letters then Age of Sigmar... or is it just me?

It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting.. Even though the new Stormhost looks Marinish.. Also 40k has still the wording Warhammer infront of it.

And while I'm one of the "likers" of WAoS I also do feel that there is much hatemongering in the current AoS threads. I don't mind it in the threads that are actually there to talk about it (who likes it and who not) because that's the topic of the thread (even though some people can be more constructive with their replies). But I don't like the same "hate" posts in the threads where we actually trying to discuss ideas about AoS.

Maybe it's too early for it's own sub forum and maybe it's not ever going to the solution as the oldhammer might loose more and more people over time and the community for the Order faction in WAoS will grow. We might even see a double up progression of threads in Elector's about both.

I might even consider using the Empire forum to keep hosting the Stormcast Eternals as the new Empire, just to keep old and new people alike that love models and gameing in the complete spectrum of the Warhammer Game on this site.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 10, 2015, 07:52:30 AM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 10, 2015, 09:56:54 AM
With you 100%.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: StealthKnightSteg on July 10, 2015, 11:03:36 AM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name and his hammer, the twin tailed comet, his history of being the Empire's ruler, his being a god for the people may that be the Old Worlds Empire or the plane of Azyr.

fixed that a little..
And also the whole storyline (now history) of the old world is still part of this new setting as from where they came from.

But that little quote from my previous post missed about all that I wanted to point out...
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Midaski on July 10, 2015, 11:36:04 AM
One of the other reasons for waiting is to see what terminology GW use for 'humans'.
Indeed we have no idea what units are going to be added and whether there will be humans.

All I have heard about so far is 'Forces of Order'

The Sigmarines I have seen so far are not classed as 'Empire'.

If there is an 'Empire' classification, then maybe we could have a new board in the Empire Discussion forums. If there is no mention of the word 'Empire' with a capital 'E' and meaning what we and W-E  :engel: would take it to mean then a new board in the Miscellaneous Forums might be better.

Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 10, 2015, 11:47:54 AM
Good points. I think the general consensus, however, is that there is no longer a human "Empire" as it was before. There are the Stormcast (who are Sigmar's angels - but that's not really "Empire") and then there will be SOME kind of human faction (the "Red Slayers" have been mentioned as the possibility).
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Bugman on July 16, 2015, 09:59:45 PM
We are not changing the name of the website. Final

Bugman
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 16, 2015, 10:11:05 PM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name and his hammer, the twin tailed comet, his history of being the Empire's ruler, his being a god for the people may that be the Old Worlds Empire or the plane of Azyr.

fixed that a little..
And also the whole storyline (now history) of the old world is still part of this new setting as from where they came from.

But that little quote from my previous post missed about all that I wanted to point out...

Uh no. There is no twin tailed comet anymore - there is a twin tailed lightning bolt. His role as god is completely different. An the whole storyline of the old world is simply dead and destroyed. Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all  the old world is still part of the new setting.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on July 17, 2015, 01:44:30 AM
It's hard to avoid the anti-AoS posts for the same reason, I guess, it's hard to avoid my posts - they are mingled in with the threads.
True.

Quote
And the argument is that this forum should remain Warhammer and Empire - but that it should also have support for other games (as it does for 40K) from GW; such as AoS.
The administrators of W-E have to the best of my knowledge already answered this.  At the moment the so called AoS is really called WAoS according to GW and I don't see it as needing it's own section at this point since the Empire has been included with it.  Evidence ... the Empire Warscrolls.  At the same time, it seems natural that folks would talk about this as they are, just like changes form one edition to the next.
 
Quote
Yes, this forum is Warhammer and Empire. And it should be for people who like Warhammer and Empire. But it has also always - as long as I have been here - a place involving other games and aspects of the hobby. And there hasn't ever been, until now, a tendency for people to denigrate and attack others' hobbies and games.
Nah, it happens from time to time.

From my view it is still too early to tell how this WAoS will shake out, and I recommend patience and resilience from the various perspectives, and things will work out ok in the long run, no need to rush.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on July 17, 2015, 01:46:39 AM
The staff have been having ongoing discussions as I have said before. We will take out time and not be hurried, and will make any changes we feel necessary when we feel they are merited.
The prime consideration will be preserving the site and its future.
Excellent, and I concur. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on July 17, 2015, 01:54:24 AM
I do not see that AoS is the replacement for Warhammer in that sense - not in the sense 8th was a replacement for 7th.
I disagree.

Quote
Rather, GW have stopped supporting Warhammer and have released AoS.
They stopped supporting previous editions too.

Quote
It's perhaps a subtle distinction, but it is one I would dearly love to make ... because that means Warhammer itself is still a game, and not just "the old edition". The two games are radically different.
It doesn't strike me as being subtle at all, and in fact it is the kind of change that is creating some of the additional commotion.  Seems like a dramatically different edition to me.  After all, it is called Warhammer: Age of Sigmar.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on July 17, 2015, 01:59:41 AM
Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all  the old world is still part of the new setting.
Doesn't mean it isn't either.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: StealthKnightSteg on July 17, 2015, 06:51:09 AM
Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all  the old world is still part of the new setting.
Doesn't mean it isn't either.

Actually Fidelis, if you should read the fluff in the new book then you will notice that the "old world", well actually it's core that mimicks the old world now and then, is very much part of the new setting as a star above the planes of Azyr where Sigmar delves his Sigmarite to make all the armour and weapons for the Stormhost.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Xathrodox86 on July 17, 2015, 09:45:15 AM
It still has the same fluff from where it originated. So it might be a whole new game concept playwise it's still set in the same setting..

Excpet for very generic concepts common to almost all fantasy, the fluff and setting is completely different. Even the AoS Sigmar has nothing in common with the WFB Sigmar, except the name and his hammer, the twin tailed comet, his history of being the Empire's ruler, his being a god for the people may that be the Old Worlds Empire or the plane of Azyr.


Uh no. There is no twin tailed comet anymore - there is a twin tailed lightning bolt. His role as god is completely different. An the whole storyline of the old world is simply dead and destroyed. Claiming that great WFB heroes have somehow been sigmarined, does not mean at all  the old world is still part of the new setting.

On top of it all he lost his hammer...

But really, the tag line of the game "Mighty Battles in an age of unending war" really says it all. In the grim aftermath of the End Times there is only war, waged by Ground Marines.

Bruva Alfabusa said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-MzNpMD1K8
fixed that a little..
And also the whole storyline (now history) of the old world is still part of this new setting as from where they came from.

But that little quote from my previous post missed about all that I wanted to point out...


Edit: Mod Magic
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Calisson on July 18, 2015, 02:50:25 PM
Interesting discussion.

Of course, people who are attached to WH8th's Empire deserve to keep having here in W-E a place to discuss.
Glad to see the pledge to provide so.

-=-=-

The real question, that I see not sufficiently addressed here, is about what to do with the new and future players of AoS.

There is a strategic decision to make.
There is a unique opportunity for Warhammer-Empire to benefit from the old Empire fluff, in particular the name of Sigmar, and attract a young generation of gamers.
Quote
In fair Sigmaron the free people of humanity gather, preserving heraldry and cultural traditions from civilisations ground beneath the weight of unceasing strife. The clamour of warlike souls fills the heavens, united in Sigmar’s name.

Will W-E position itself as the website of Sigmaron?
When the ageing population of fans of no longer supported WH8th will ultimately dwindle, the new Sigmarine-loving Kevins will have grown up and will let you retire, leaving them your dear website to develop - not necessarily to preserve unchanged, though.

Or will W-E let newcomers organize and develop elsewhere their own Warhammer-Sigmaron.net?
On W-E, staunch orthodoxes will debate about how the classic Altar of Sigmar has nothing to do with the Sigmaron Altar, and connoisseurs will explain why the noble semi-chickens are not to be mistaken with the crude Castellant's pets or mounts.
On W-S, similar debates will conclude the opposite.

Back to my strategic question:
Will W-E accept to be the recipient of AoS Sigmarite fluff?
Or will W-E deny Stormcast their Sigmar inheritage?


You need not to reply outright yes/no, a little prior debate could help.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 30, 2015, 10:32:16 PM
Calision; where is that quote about "fair Sigmaron" from?
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Calisson on July 31, 2015, 12:02:31 AM
Calision; where is that quote about "fair Sigmaron" from?
http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-the-empire-en.pdf
Jump to p.2, first paragraph.
The fact that it comes from the compendium dedicated to The Empire tells quite a lot about the intention.

Oh, by the way, the quote from same place, in http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Compendiums/warhammer-aos-bretonnia-en.pdf
happens to be the very same.
This tells, too, about the intention:
Brets and Empire will be merged, the Lady will be no more, everything will be Sigmar.

More opportunity for W-E, less opportunity for The Round Table of Bretonnia, I guess.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 31, 2015, 12:37:23 AM
Thank you, Cal!

Well, if someone were to turn up with a classic Bret army for AoS and said "The background is purely Bretonian; I am ignoring that Sigmarion guff - these guys follow the Lady as she should be" I would be all "Cool!"

And I would encourage people to tweak the warscrolls to more perfectly reflect their vision of Bretonnia. And I would like it thereby.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on July 31, 2015, 03:51:37 AM
Combining Bretonia with the Empire doesn't strike me as being a good idea.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Calisson on July 31, 2015, 04:09:26 AM
Combining Bretonia with the Empire doesn't strike me as being a good idea.
Good or bad, that's GW's vision for the future.
It might well have the side-effect to deprive bretonnian fans from future reinforcement.

But that is not the main issue here.
The real question is whether (or when) W-E will accept the filiation betwen WH8th Sigmar and AOS's Sigmar.
Title: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: The Real Rick Salamone on July 31, 2015, 04:47:44 AM
It really seems that we are at a crossroads here. During the build-up phase folks were asking lots of questions and theorizing based on the rumors. Now that AoS is here and is far worse than anyone predicted, the W-E site is a hot mess. I hope things get sorted out soon. It's gotten to be so negative. The negativity is 100% justified but still hard on the soul when you just want to talk about warhammer fantasy and the empire army that is a part of warhammer fantasy.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Midaski on July 31, 2015, 07:36:40 AM
It's not just the way we go forward, it's Soth or I finding the time to actually make all the changes.
We both happen to have full-time and more jobs.

I want AoS to disappear off to a small corner of the site as much as most, but given current workloads it won't happen until next week at the earliest.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 31, 2015, 05:00:22 PM
Can I suggest a naming convention for threads, then? I have been putting [AoS] in my thread titles.

If people did that, it would allow for easy search-and-destroymove when the new section came online, and also allow people who wish to avoid AoS to avoid it.

Thank you to 'Soth and Mids.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on July 31, 2015, 10:38:40 PM
The movement ...  :icon_lol: ... sorry couldn't help myself ... has occured. :icon_wink: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on July 31, 2015, 11:12:59 PM
The movement ... 

Just so long as they did not have to reach into the bowels of the site for it.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: GamesPoet on August 01, 2015, 10:18:26 PM
It happened naturally, of course. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: steveb on September 01, 2015, 02:53:24 PM
I would like to offer an analogy if I may.  I feel that we have gone from playing chess with ivory pieces on an inlaid ebony board, to playing checkers with plastic pieces on a cardboard playing board.  steveb
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on September 01, 2015, 02:56:06 PM
You played a game yet? You painted or modelled any of the new figures?
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: steveb on September 03, 2015, 05:09:13 AM
yes, I painted some khorne figures on commission for someone else,  I also played one game and did not enjoy it.  I used to enjoy 40K but I quit it years ago because I no longer liked the figures. I am not saying they are bad or anything, they are just not esthetically pleasing  to me.  steveb
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on September 03, 2015, 09:54:34 AM
Fair enough.

yes, I painted some khorne figures on commission for someone else

We want pics! :)

Quote
I am not saying they are bad or anything

To be honest, your post above really does suggest that - and does so using the standard meme that AoS is, somehow, a game for kids or people without taste, or who don't know the difference between nice things and not.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Midaski on September 03, 2015, 11:03:58 AM
Fair enough.

Quote
I am not saying they are bad or anything

To be honest, your post above really does suggest that - and does so using the standard meme that AoS is, somehow, a game for kids or people without taste, or who don't know the difference between nice things and not.

Why say 'Fair Enough' and then go on and criticise.
He's entitled to his opinion and described how he felt about it.

I've never seen steveb guilty of being a sheep or lemming before, so why are you suugesting he is now.

In fact I wonder if your use of the "standard meme" phrase is not standard trolling against anyone who wants to comment negatively about PreK.

 
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Darknight on September 03, 2015, 11:22:43 AM
PreK?

It is very clear you, and I think the rest of the moderation team, share a dismissive view of both Age of Sigmar and its players. The former is bearable, the later isn't.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Midaski on September 03, 2015, 12:58:44 PM
PreK?

It is very clear you, and I think the rest of the moderation team, share a dismissive view of both Age of Sigmar and its players. The former is bearable, the later isn't.

There you go again - making your opinion a sweeping statement.
One of the main AOS advocates happens to be someone I would call a good friend from the Eurobash, and so far he hasn't been PMing me for being 'dismissive'.
In fact since we set the AoS board up. I haven't had a PM from anyone.
In fact the only person who still wants to continue the argument is you - every time someone is vaguely critical of AoS.

You have a lot of admirable qualities DK - the ability to read something, smile, and move on is not one of them.

Edit:
Just seen your 'Toys out of the Pram' post in the AoS board - yes I was in there 'moderating'.

What do you want - do you seriously expect things to be the same around here?
This was a site dedicated to The Empire in the Warhammer Fantasy game which doesn't exist anymore.
You've got a Board dedicated to AoS.
People who don't like AoS are not going in there and starting or continuing arguments as far as I have seen.
However you feel it is ok to jump on any negative remarks elsewhere on the site, and throw a tantrum when you get called on it.

Still you obviously will not read this as you have said goodbye.
Title: Re: What Do We Do Moving Forward?
Post by: Baron von Klatz on September 05, 2015, 06:21:20 AM
You've got a Board dedicated to AoS.

Can I just chime in that I'm really really really appreciative of that? :smile2: