The Empire at War => Kings of War => Topic started by: ZeroTwentythree on April 08, 2018, 06:24:29 AM

Title: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: ZeroTwentythree on April 08, 2018, 06:24:29 AM

Although I have enjoyed KoW, I have not done nearly as well with it as I have with WFB. In particular, I'm not sure how to adapt my Empire armies to either Kingdoms of Men or League or Rhordia. But I'm having difficulty with both decent lists and actually gameplay. Anyone have any good general advice for either army?

 I like that there are more options, especially with two lists, allies, etc. And I'm really OK with not 100% emulating old Empire lists. Just looking for something that will at least put up a fight... which I'm not currently doing.
Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: Zygmund on April 08, 2018, 06:52:20 AM
Not real advice, but I'm in a somewhat similar situation. While I really like the game, every single game has been a struggle and the outcome a loss.

My feeling is that KoW really is a delicate game, and you need to think ahead maybe even more than with Warhammer Fantasy prior to the 8th ed. Even if you can measure everything. Likely this is due to less practice. Even math-KoW might help to understand the nature of various unit confrontations better.

There are strong deathstars in the game for most armies, but they tend to be hordes, and could be maneuvered and flanked. Frontally engaging those units with anything weaker, not to say regiments, doesn't work without flanking. Still, I haven't been able to achieve a single flanking against them. It's hard to say if this is because of little practice or because of the basic nature of the game. Possibly you should go for two hordes in a list for a starter.

Empire style/skill artillery and shooters are clearly weaker in KoW. I still feel they have a role, but what exactly, I haven't been able to deduce.

I've never taken a monster/tank in a list, nor ogres, nor knight regiments or hordes. They could bring some needed muscle and maneuverability with narrower frontage. Hard to say. Must practice more.

Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: Midaski on April 08, 2018, 07:03:11 AM
I've had a couple of games - which is more than anything else of a large scale for a few years now - and went 1-1.
Both games result were about flanking, but that may have been both of us being mainly old 6th Edition players.

I may look at 9th Age, but I don't get a lot of opportunity to play games at the moment, and the simplicity of a small number of movement tray sizes, with the fact casualties stay on the tray, and as 023 says you can easily use my old Empire figures makes it attractive and I want to play more.
Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: ZeroTwentythree on April 10, 2018, 05:27:15 PM
There is a good deal of setting up & manuvering for position involved. That's part of what I like about KoW. In that respect it reminds me of the glory days of WFB6

However, I'm apparently nor adjusting to KoW well enough yet.  :icon_lol:

I think a lot of the KoM & LoR unit choices are very "average," for lack of better term. I need more experience to figure out how to make them work. (And what doesn't work.)
Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: Illumini on May 02, 2018, 06:46:07 PM
I have done very well with my Kislev Rhordia, and I have several friends that play KoM / Rhordia that also do well overall. I run cavalry heavy, a friend runs pure melee infantry heavy and the other runs infantry heavy with a good amount of shooting.

KoM, League and Brotherhood are all a bit tougher to play than many of the more fantasy heavy armies, but they are close enough in power level to be competitive with a good strategy / tactics. A bonus with playing human armies is that you can blame it when you lose :D

It is hard to give generic list advice, since almost all units are fully playable. If you give us an idea of what kind of units you want to use, or what kind of theme you want, preferably with a draft list, it is easier to help.

I can give the generic advice that the following units are good and fairly easy to use:
- Human wizards. They are cheap, the KoM ones come with lightning bolt, and drain life is ace with infantry hordes. Bane chant is very neccessary for humans because of our low CS.
- Volley guns (helblaster). Consistent damage dealing for a cheap price. Canīt go wrong with 1-3 of these guys. Bring the next unit to keep them around longer.
- Battle shrine (war altar). Brings both good shooting, a scoring unit and the +2 nerve bubble that keeps your chaff and warmachines around for an annoyingly long time.
- Honor guard (demi gryphs). One of the best melee damage dealers in the game. Give them haste potion to increase their threat range and they will treat you good.

Human infantry, cavalry, heroes and monsters are all also fully usable, so there are a ton of options for good lists.

Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: jtrowell on November 27, 2018, 03:05:47 PM
Remember than in KoW the simple number of units is a force in itself.

Human troops might be average outside a few things like the Honor Guard, but that means that you should outnumber elite units while still having decent stats, and at the same time have better units that the usual goblin or ratkin hordes while still being able to fight them with numbers.

So you have to play your strengths to your opponent weaknesses, usually try having the mobility to put your knights and other mobile units where they can focus on your priority targets, and use your cheap hordes and heroes to hold the rest.

In other words, against ultra elites units, throw soliders like if you were a goblin players to delay them in most place, and focurs charge or fire on the rest, hopefully using your superior numbers to win.
Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: GamesPoet on November 27, 2018, 03:39:05 PM
This sounds like some challenging fun. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: jtrowell on December 07, 2018, 10:32:56 AM
Also note that if you want to play an Empire army with a strong religious theme, especially for a Sigmarite army with things like warrior priests and flagellants, the Basilea list might also be a good option.

If you want to field Elohis, then the flying sigmarines (sorry, stormcasts) from the AoS starter are a perfect fit, and the CoK 2019 will had the option for a small regiment of ogre royal guard (model introduced in Vanguard) that will also alllow you to use a few normal stormcasts.

Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: MrPieChee on December 15, 2018, 07:48:31 PM
I've only played a few games, but have gleamed some good pointers from the mantic forum (which is about to close).

KoW is a game of movement more than anything - any list can do well with good deployment and good choices in the movement phase.

Chaff is really important - all of your main infantry blocks should have a chaff unit with them to set up their first charge.

Flank and rear charges are painful - make sure you have a few units well behind your lines to protect against flyers. Combined with your chaff set up, this often means higher model count armies in KoW deploy in three rows - chaff : main line : rear support.

Several players who regularly rank at the top of the KoW tournaments often build lists around redundancy - all the main units will be taken in twos or threes and deployed as if fighting with two or three armies, not one.

Iists I've seen normally have enough heroes to cover all your hordes with rerolls.

Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: Zygmund on December 18, 2018, 08:26:12 AM
MrPC, I think you nail the spirit & strategy of KoW nicely. Very good advice.

Title: Re: Empire KoW Advice
Post by: jtrowell on December 21, 2018, 09:43:43 AM
@MrPieChee , it is indeed a very good idea to think in groups of units when designing your army, as even the best units don't exists in a vacuum.

I wrote 2 years ago on wareer a post on this topic that is still perfectly valid today on this very topic :