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The Empire at War => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Topic started by: GamesPoet on October 25, 2018, 12:39:17 AM

Title: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: GamesPoet on October 25, 2018, 12:39:17 AM
Questions on Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...

1.  If I recall for 6th & 7th edition, Knightly Order units were better fielded in an Empire army with 5 figures?

The idea being that losing 1 of 5 didn't bring a unit down to 75%, and thus no morale check.

2.  Wondering what this was like for 8th Edition as well?

3.  What was the impact in 6th, 7th, and 8th on this when fielding a captain on horse with the Knightly unit?
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: warhammerlord_soth on October 25, 2018, 07:05:55 AM
following
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: The Black Knight on October 25, 2018, 09:46:43 AM
In 8th I usually go with something like 9 or 11 IC/reiksguard for my hammer units. Rarely bother with regular knights, when I have two units that have acess to S4, I'd have to run a fully mounted list in order to need the normies. I also never take more as they become too points heavy. These dudes are for flank charges and in general cooperating with my infantry units who act as anvils.

I don't think I've ever taken a captain with them (maybe a BSB once or twice). I don't feel like he contributes to the outcome of combats that much with his puny 3 attacks. I also don't feel like I need Hold the Line! They are not foot troops, they aren't meant to take a beating and pin the enemy in place, they need to choose their fights and punch through. If I'm rolling a break tests with them it means that I have already goofed real bad and probably the battle isn't going in my favour. Kinda like giving banners to missile units - if you're in combat with them, you goofed and that stick is not gonna save you!

But they absolutely NEED a mounted Warrior Priest, to mitiagte that rubber lance syndrome. The unit only has 10-12 attacks, you need these to strike home in order to do anything, hatred is necessary. The prayers are just a bonus, if you get them off - good for you but don't count  on it too much.

EDIT: I should mention that even though I don't take normal knights for hammers, they are of course perfect for small 5 men units to chase away enemy chaff and go after shooters (the so called "Vanilla Knights").
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: GamesPoet on October 25, 2018, 01:09:32 PM
Woah, thanks for that post!

9 or 11 knights seems like alot, which rings of 8th Edition, oh well.  And yep, the vanilla knights is part of 6th and 7th edition tactics too if I recall.  Also, a good reminder regarding the mounted warrior priest, which I got one converted up somewhere, and need to finish him!

I vaguely remember some folks sometimes might bring 8 or 9 knights in a unit for 6th & 7th.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: The Black Knight on October 25, 2018, 01:49:55 PM
No problem GamesPoet, I'm curious what other tactics people can share :). Been playing 8th quite a lot lately so it's all coming back!

You are right about the vanilla knights being a staple in 6th and 7th. I'm pretty sure I first heard of this term on this very site (insert the Elrond "I was there 5000 years ago" meme here ;)).
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: GamesPoet on October 25, 2018, 07:21:53 PM
Yep, and a unit with 8 or 9 figures, maybe even 10, was termed a hammer.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: FR1DAY on October 25, 2018, 10:44:19 PM
Iíve been running 10 and 15 strong units of late in 6th. Admittedly in DOW army with medium cavalry
I like 6 strong for IC knights and either 10-12 standard knights as a anvil lead by TGM with laurels of victory to auto pass one break test. I also really like units of 5 standard knights with musician for flanking duty.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: Warlord on October 25, 2018, 11:05:52 PM
In 6th edition, 4 ranks width, FC and War Banner made a unit of 7 with WP seen as a hammer with decent static CR to help.

In 8th edition, I quite liked units of 6 knights - 3x2 formation. Made them very manoeuvrable, and the second rank could stall attack.

I once suggested that you could take a unit of 5 with full command, and put a wizard in the middle of the second rank much like bretonnians, and it would make them a good wizard bunker, and also be able to clean up small support units at the same time.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: commandant on October 26, 2018, 11:26:44 AM
I used to run a unit of nine with Full Command and a captain in 6th.   I found they worked well, packed a massive punch and had some static combat res.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: Padre on October 26, 2018, 11:49:44 AM
I use whatever looks good, or whatever I have painted that fits the army theme. Edit: I am aware this isn't helpful.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: Shadow_Zero on June 20, 2019, 05:15:50 AM
I used to run a unit of nine with Full Command and a captain in 6th.   I found they worked well, packed a massive punch and had some static combat res.
Was that 5-4 or 3-3-3 formation?
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 20, 2019, 07:23:11 AM
3-3-3 does not have any static CR.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: Warlord on June 20, 2019, 10:50:15 AM
It had a standard. However canít imagine much punch with only 3 models attacking. 5 and 4 is the go, because ranks calculated at beginning of combat.
Title: Re: Number of Knights in Units for 6th, 7th, & 8th ...
Post by: commandant on June 20, 2019, 10:01:55 PM
5 + 4 with lances.

That was 7 WS3 S5 attacks, 2 WS4 S5 attacks, 3 WS5 S5 (I believe, maybe S6 if the captain was S4) attacks and 5 WS3 S3 attacks.   They also had a banner and a rank so +2 Static Res.   They packed a massive punch, enough to sometimes break ranked units and certainly enough to roll up a line.

Also because chargers always attacked first they were often not taking much in the way of attacks back.