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The Empire at War => WHFB The Electors' Forum => Topic started by: KTG17 on May 10, 2019, 07:22:07 PM

Title: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 10, 2019, 07:22:07 PM
Hi everyone, new to the site. I literally stumbled on it for the first time today searching for Warhammer terrain and was led to the thread of people showing off their work and was blown away.

So this is going to be a long post but I thought I would share what I am doing and where I am at, because while I have been aware of WFB for a long time (long 40k fan), I never got into it and only started buying stuff for it when GW killed Warhammer and moved on to Sigmar. I actually have lost interest in 40k too. I am just not thrilled with what direction GW is taking these days, so I guess I am reaching back into the past and are amazed at what I missed.

I started by picking up mint copies of the 6th Edition, 7th Edition Battle for Skull Pass, and 8th Edition Island of Blood starter sets. I really didn't know any difference between the versions of the rules, and I am a sucker for starter sets, so I hunted those down and thought I would mess around with them until I figured out which I liked. I don't have many friends who play these games, let alone collect, so typically if I can get one to play I have to provide everything. So I would base what I would collect around the starter armies from these sets.

Well, it didn't take me long before I was blown away by 6th Edition, and how comprehensive the rulebook was (with Skirmish, Siege, etc). I had a variety of ways to play with the same miniatures! I also picked up Mordhiem (which I had previously but never did anything with and foolishly got rid of), and fell in love with the era even more. With the Best of Town Cyrer, I now had rules for warbands for all the armies from Warhammer Fantasy, so even more to explore. I picked up the General's Compendium as well and an annual or two. Its obvious there was a lot of love for 6th Edition at the time just for the sheer amount of stuff GW released for it. The editions after do not look like they got the same love and attention as 6th did. Maybe nicer models though.

But what really did it for me with 6th is Ravening Hordes. I didn't even know it existed until after I got all the starter sets, and when I found I had rules for just about every mini I now had, it kind of sealed things for me. I really didn't want to hunt down all of the army books (especially for each edition), or worry about power creep, and most importantly, complicated rules for the few times I play a game with a friend and I keep having to go back and refer to special rules. So this also means, if it isn't in Ravening Hordes, I don't buy it or plan on playing it. (with once exception below)

So sticking with the starter armies in those sets, and adding a wizard, extra character or unit here an there, I had six armies with each about 700 points. I was told by some veterans those armies were simply too small for WFB, but I explained that I wanted variety and to expand on the number of armies rather than put all my money into a few armies. I wasn't thrilled about painting up 20 Empire Spearmen if I could just do 10. I could give 10 my best but 20 would involve me cutting corners. But I also started looking at the old Battalion sets on Ebay and before long I was buying them, adding a unit here and there with some heros, and the next thing I knew I had about 1000 points from them, so I went back and bumped my original 700 point armies to 1000 as well.

So all last year and the beginning of this year I managed to accumulate:

Empire (from 6th Starter) plus some extras like Knights, Wizard, Swordsmen.
Orcs (from 6th Starter) plus some extras like Black Orcs and Shaman.
Dwarfs (from 7th Starter) plus Longbeards and Ironbreakers.
Goblins (from 7th Starter) plus a couple of Bolt Throwers. Still need some more to buy here I know. Might just pull from my starter Orcs.
High Elves (from 7th Starter) plus Spearmen and Repeater Bolt Thrower.
Skaven (from 7th Starter) plus Stormvermin and I might get a couple more units as I love the Skaven. Maybe a Doomwheel.

But then, I got:

Lizardmen Battalion - I had no idea how nice these models were going to be and I fell in love with the set the minute I opened the box. I added a Saurus Hero and Skink Shaman. I love the Slann model even tho I can't play them with armies this small, but I will probably end up getting him some day. But the Battalion had just about everything I needed for a 1000 point army.

Wood Elf Battalion - I got this set honestly because it was cheap, but reading more into them I fell in love with them. I am a big nature guy, and I love the Dryads and so forth, and I can't wait to really built these guys. They are not a conventional army I am used to playing so its nice to have them. Added a Commander, Mage, and using a box of Eternal guys as Glade Guard since RH doesn't have rules for them.

Chaos Warrior Battalion - This was a must and I got it for a good price. Added some bits to make a Champion out of one of the warriors, then a sorcerer and a Chaos Chariot. Really like this set. Oozes bad-ass.

Daemon Host - I got this, not sure what to do with it. Daemons are expensive in RH and I actually can't even field everything that comes in the box in a 1000 point game. Will come back to this some day.

Bretonnian Battalion - Yes, I got this, yes I paid big money for it. And to be honest, I wasn't even that big on the Bretonnians. I felt I already had a human army with the Empire, and I thought they were too historical looking for fantasy. But once I got the models I fell in love with them. Picked up some old mounted Squires and and a wizard to round out the army. Love this set.

Beastmen Battalion - I got these because like the Wood Elves they were fairly cheap, but I wasn't prepared for how much I would like them. I really, really like these guys. I think they are more Chaos-y than the Chaos Warriors themselves. I picked up not only a Beastman Hero and Shaman, but also a box of plastic Minotaurs which are awesome. Round out this army using the Chaos Hounds that came with the Warriors set to make 1000 points. At least for now. I thought about hunting down some Harpies. Let me know what you guys think.

Dark Elf Battalion - Like many of the other sets, I was surprised how much I would love these guys. Online pics just don't show off the detail these models have, since they are painted so dark. I picked up a Sorcerer and that was pretty much all I needed, but I also sprung for a Repeater Bolt Thrower too I will swap out a unit for at times. I like the Dark Elves so much I want to expand on them just for the sake of having, like the Dark Riders and Black Dragon, even if I will never play a game big enough to use it.

Vampire Count Battalion - I have the set with the red armor Vampire on the cover, and I love that pic. The set though comes up light. I do not have rules for the Corpse Cart in RH so I am going to try and convert it into a Black Coach. But I don't need it because I also picked up the Grave Guard, Bat Swarm, and more importantly plastic Dire Wolves which seem hard to find. Oh, and of course a Vampire and Necromancer too. Its not my favorite set but what is Warhammer without Vampires?

Tomb King Battalion - I will be honest here, I do not like any kind of historical references in Warhammer so I felt the Tomb Kings were just too Egyptian to me, but once I got the set, I was impressed with the models. The set comes with 40 Skeletons so I divided them up to make 20 warriors, 10 bowmen, and the last 10 to be converted into Tomb Guard. All I had to do to complete this set was add a Liche Priest and Tomb Lord, which I did.

And finally, The Ogre Kingdom Battalion - I know they are not in RH, but I am making an exception here using their 6th edition army book because I love these guys. The Battalion set didn't come with any Gobnars like the older set did, which is fine as they made up for it with more Ogres. I hunted down two sets of Gobnar regiments only to discover I only had enough points left to field one. But that is okay, because I want the extra Gobnars to be available down the road for when I get down to collecting a Chaos Dwarf army, since they ARE in Ravening Hordes, where I will refer to them as hobgoblins. Oh, I did get a Ogre Bruiser for a general.

I also picked up several sets of the modular movement trays and the Fortified Manor set. Also picked up 3 sets of Citadel Wood, and a nice stone looking bridge I think comes from the Bolt Action (?) game. I got it used so not sure. Hope to find more stuff to spice up my table.

So yes, that's where I stand now. I am sure many of you doubt this story but it true. I have been at it for about a year and was pretty obsessive getting to this point. But I am finally here and can take my time. I have started assembling what came in the starter sets and will move on to the others as I finish. I expect it all to take some dozen years at the rate I move lol.

Anyway, the reason for posting all this is that I wanted to say how I am really envious of you guys who have been involved with this game over the years and think you are really lucky to have gotten to play it while it was in its peak. I hate Sigmar, but at the same time can understand why GW went the direction they did. But it isn't fantasy as I am used to, and it's too over the top. WFB 6th, with its grit, is a lot like Games of Thrones with villages to be defended and monsters to kill. I am really having a blast exploring all this, even though I am really late to the party.

Will share my army lists in the future to knock for being too small!

Thanks for reading!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 10, 2019, 08:11:32 PM
Welcome to this wonderful hobby, and welcome to W-E! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 12, 2019, 09:18:02 AM
Ah, obsession!

Been there myself - and I guess I'm still there - so very easy to believe this story.  :-)

You're certainly in good company here.  :icon_lol:

Please show your progress!

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Gankom on May 13, 2019, 02:32:51 PM
Welcome to the forum! Your a fine addition to the hobby and the board. I'm very interested to see how your stuff comes along. Never despair either. There's more people then you think out there still playing the old stuff.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 13, 2019, 05:20:56 PM
Thanks everyone!

I was assembling all sorts of random stuff, but I have decided to focus by starting with the armies I got first, so starting with finishing my Empire army and working my way to the most recent. Orcs will be next.

My Empire army list (based on Ravening Hordes):

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

So total is about 985 at the moment so have some points I can play with. I probably should have more troops, but I am using blocks of 10 for human and Orc sized figures and 20 for the smaller like Goblins and Skaven.  Essentially using the 7th and 8th starter sets as guides. Not trying to build a power army, just get the most out of the figures I have. I ended up getting some duplicates in some lot auctions so that is why I have a second captain and a mortar for example. Might as well use them than sink more points into more troops.

I have some questions about the Empire:

The patterns on their shields... are they basically representing the regiment? The models all come with different shields with different designs on them. I wasn't sure if these represent a particular city in the Empire or a regiment themselves.

Also, I had the OLDER State Trooper sprues to make my swordsmen, and on the sprues were these two pouch looking things. I couldn't see them being used in any of the official GW studio models, so I am not sure what to do with them. The kinda look like they might be something that goes on the waist to protect the crouch or butt area. I tired to upload a pic from my phone but the image is too big.

Found them online!

(https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images3/1/0416/24/oop-empire-state-troops-sprues-bits_1_9c9a31352b9ed8ef40e8ff1d89ef2bca.jpg)

They are the last two pieces on the bottom right... any idea what these are for?

Actually while I am at it, what is the thing above them? A canteen?

And, is there any significance with the feathers? Just deco or do they mean something?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on May 13, 2019, 05:25:13 PM
Yep, they hang off the hip as linked plates of armor.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 13, 2019, 05:40:11 PM
Off the hip? Like on either side?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on May 13, 2019, 05:47:46 PM

They are the last two pieces on the bottom right... any idea what these are for?


They are called 'tassets' and were to protect the upper thighs.
It was one of the annoying things in that kit that there wasn't enough of them to upgrade all the figures.
The soldiers kit was 6th Edition and you could use them to signify a 'Light Armour' status for your soldier.

It was quite easy though to create a mould and reproduce them in numbers in greenstuff.

You can see that there is a Left and a Right one - they should almost touch at the top near where the buckle on a belt would be, and 'frame' the codpiece.
Google 'tassets' for images



Actually while I am at it, what is the thing above them? A canteen?


Yep - one of the first 'kit extras' that appeared, nowadays you get all sorts of accessories to individualise your men.
This was useful as an extra adornment - I have some on my 40K Imperial Guard as well.

Oh and the feathers are just for adding to some of the heads as you feel necessary - maybe to make your command group look fancier, or just to make some troopers different.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 14, 2019, 08:19:04 AM
Regarding unit sizes, considering 6th edition had ranks of 4, consider units in regards to how many ranks they are including adding characters. Also donít be misled - humans and orcs are not elite units, and are much closer to goblins and skaven than you would think. i think units of 10 for elves, dwarves, saurus, and chaos warriors are fine. For human soldiers not so much. Aim for a 4x4 block of 16 at a minimum, if not going up to 20. Orcs might be able to stay at the 16 size, but humans should probably go up to 20 as skaven basically have the same statline.

For empire, you would also want to consider using detachments - one of our key strengths, and you will need a unit of 20 to get one or two detachments of 10. Again, this isnít about making a power list, but just a list that wonít automatically lose against armies with superior killing power.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 14, 2019, 05:25:58 PM
Well, I am trying to keep it simple, cost effective, and trying to avoid going down the rabbit hole with all the army books and special rules. As I mentioned in my OP that I am hosting 99% of the time, so I am trying to fulfill the desire to do the hobby and be able to play some easy, straight forward games. Blocks of 10 and 20 might work for some and not others, I know, but many of the <expansion> sets I am buying come in blocks or those. So rather than trying to dig up extra figures here and there, I am just going to keep them as they come.

The detachment thing I am aware of as well, but that involves using the Empire Army book and and then god knows what else special rules. If I were playing against you guys then sure, I would prob need to overhaul my armies. But in this case I am just trying to field some cool armies with some variety that aren't too complicated to play. Hence Ravening Hordes.

I am making an exception for the Ogre Kingdoms tho. Since they don't appear in RH I am using their book with some minor tweaks. I'll get to those guys in oh... about two years lol.

BTW, speaking of Orcs, here is my plan for them. I need advice at the end.

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Bronze Axe - 50

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Ogre Blade - 40

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chariot - 80

Troll - 50

Bolt Thrower - 30

Total comes to about 993.

I know the Troll should be in a unit of at least 3, but I needed to fill in some points and I got him from the 7th Starter set. Figured it wouldnt be a big deal. However, I feel like I have a lot of foot units and was wondering if I should hunt down a box of 5 Boar Boys and fit them in here. I don't know much about them, but just about all of my other armies have some kind of cavalry. I was initially just building armies to match what was in the other starter sets, which came to about 700 points, so I thought just having a single chariot would be fine, but now with 1000 points, it feels like a single chariot wouldn't have much of an impact. Not crazy about building another on of them either.

What do you guys think?

EDIT: At Warlord's suggestion I did pick up a unit of Boar Boyz, so I adjusted my army.

Removed the Troll (-50) and Bolt Thrower (-30).

The second Big Boss (65) now has a Biting Blade (10), Light Armor (2), and Shield (2).

The Orc Boys with Spears no longer have spears (-20).

And added the Boar Boyz (85)
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Army is now at 995 points.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 14, 2019, 09:39:22 PM
I understand about the detachment thing. I will check Ravening Hordes. I still think my feedback to keep human troops to size 16-20 is relevant though.

Have you built the goblin army? I guesd it would be interesting to see what point size you can get to with them? The bolt thrower and troll fit them better too themstically and to boost their strength potential otherwise they would also be fighting uphill against most armies.

Boar boys are great in 6th edition from memory. They will add more threat and reduce the need for random bolt thrower and troll...

As a sidenote, I have 5 I was planning to list on ebay at some point, basically a collection of bits using the champion sprue plastic legs and 6th edition boar bodies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 15, 2019, 12:30:58 AM
I have the Goblin army from the Battle for Skull Pass, but other than buying the Bolt Thrower (which the Orcs weíre borrowing too), I havenít done much with them. Presently in order to field a 1000 point army I have to borrow some Orcs, which just doesnít feel right. Not sure what to do about them as I know Goblins are cheap and I donít want to paint 300 of them.

As far as your Boar Boy bitz, I actually have many of those parts and compared them with the Boar Boyz Set I was watching on eBay, and I felt the variety of the models in the official boar boy set gave me some more character. Like the standard and musician especially. I actually bought the Orc Boyz set that came with options for spears or swords because the back of the box showed a different banner than I already had, only to find the same warboss/standard/drummer sprue that came in the 6th edition starter set.  :icon_mad:  I really want a variety of standards to add character to my units. So that being said your post did convince me to buy the set I was watching so I am now the proud owner of a Boar Boyz unit. This means they will be replacing the troll and bolt thrower and some other items, but I agree with you those do belong with the Goblins. And honestly whatís an Orc warband without Boar Boyz? I should have known better.

Trying to watch costs though!

Thanks for your input!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 15, 2019, 01:37:40 AM
Regarding banners, check out the Ogre banner, and the beastmen Gors banner.
Or use the bull head top and make a paper banner like they used to in 5th edition.
That said, the banner top with the bull head is a great conversion piece for a champion or character as a helmet.

Glad I could convince you of the Boar Boys.

Regarding Goblins, I saw you bought Gnoblars for your Ogres, but had a spare unit - you could consider making snotlings out of them, and also consider some snotling pump wagons. I assume they are in Ravening Hordes?

Consider if you can, adding squigs (are they in Ravening Hordes?) and fanatics to your model collection. Fanatics could even be easy to convert - some of the BfBfP goblins can have their spears chopped off, and if you have any ball and chains (such as in the Chaos Marauder box or the old Darkelf warrior box there is a piece too) you can use those.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 15, 2019, 02:15:17 AM
Yes I had put the Snotling Pump Wagon on my interest list (it is in RH) but itís a Rare choice and I already have that slot filled with the Spider Riders that came in that Starter set. Not sure how good either is tho, although I am guessing the Spider Riders might be more reliable. But the pump wagon looks like a fun model.

Question: On eBay I am seeing two different sets of WFB counters. One comes in a red tin with paper counters I canít make sense of (canít zoom in well enough) and the other has plastic pieces and comes with come kind of tracker. Combat resolution tracker? Both are pretty inexpensive and I was wondering if they were worth getting. I am not playing big battles but if one or the other will help with reminders I am up for getting either. Anyone have these?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 16, 2019, 10:56:41 AM
Of course. I pulled out my copy of Ravening Hordes and had a peak today. You already have the spiders so use those.  :engel:

Regarding the counters, I am not sure / canít remember having seen such a set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on May 16, 2019, 12:29:08 PM
Regarding the counters, I am not sure / canít remember having seen such a set.

Was it the one in gold plastic - I think there were measuring and arc devices as well?
Round gold markers?

 (https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99220299031-0.jpg)

(http://www.wargamestore.com/images/P/wtemplate-01.jpg)

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 16, 2019, 12:53:34 PM
Hi, yes the top picture there is one of the ones I was talking about. The other this one:

(http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWWFB/GAWWFB00/IMG/GAWWFB%2099220299021%20(65-27)%20-%20Counter%20Set%20[Box]%201A.jpg)

(http://collector-info.com/Manufacturer/GAW/GAWWFB/GAWWFB00/IMG/GAWWFB%2099220299021%20(65-27)%20-%20Counter%20Set%20[Box]%201B.jpg)

There look like two different ones were made.

(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/163670935154_/Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles-Counter-Set.jpg)

Any idea what that gold compass-looking thing is in the gold set?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 16, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
Also I have a question about Halberds and Shields in 6th edition and Ravening Hordes.

State Troops with Halberds come with hand weapon, Shields, and Halberds. Halberds require two hands in close combat, so they canít use their shields while using them. So does this assume they can use them while being fired upon with ranged weapons? I assume there also might be cases where a player might pass using the Halberds and use the hand weapon and shield instead if they wanted better protection in a round of combat? Is that allowed?

Tomb Guard are also armed this way and it seems reasonable that this was done to make them flexible troops, but I see many examples of those models with shields whereas the Halberd models I see typically donít have shields. Not even slung over their backs, which is something I would do.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 17, 2019, 06:06:00 AM
Also I have a question about Halberds and Shields in 6th edition and Ravening Hordes.

State Troops with Halberds come with hand weapon, Shields, and Halberds. Halberds require two hands in close combat, so they canít use their shields while using them. So does this assume they can use them while being fired upon with ranged weapons?

Yes.

Quote
I assume there also might be cases where a player might pass using the Halberds and use the hand weapon and shield instead if they wanted better protection in a round of combat? Is that allowed?

Yes.

Quote
Any idea what that gold compass-looking thing is in the gold set?

The one semi-circle with an arrow? I think it is put on the corner of a unit to determine the front/flank/rear arc. Can be used to see if the unit sees an enemy unit, or if an enemy unit can charge the unit flank, etc.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 17, 2019, 08:02:26 AM
I assume there also might be cases where a player might pass using the Halberds and use the hand weapon and shield instead if they wanted better protection in a round of combat? Is that allowed?

As Zygmund sayd that is allowed in 6th edition, but you do need to make that choice at the start of a close combat and stick to it until that close combat has completely ended.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 17, 2019, 12:20:43 PM
The one semi-circle with an arrow? I think it is put on the corner of a unit to determine the front/flank/rear arc. Can be used to see if the unit sees an enemy unit, or if an enemy unit can charge the unit flank, etc.

Ahh... yes. I can see that now. Many thanks. I just picked up that gold set that includes that off eBay.


As Zygmund sayd that is allowed in 6th edition, but you do need to make that choice at the start of a close combat and stick to it until that close combat has completely ended.

Ok so if they start out with the Halberds, they have to finish with them.

Seems odd they would be the same point costs as regular swordsmen then, since they have more options. Same with Spearmen.

Also, still have a pending question about designs on shields. Should my whole army be using the same design? Or would these differ between regiment? Or even if I had two units of Swordsmen, would they have the same pattern, or be different?

Like I have some shields that are plain with a choice of symbols to put on them. I have enough different symbols to give each unit their own one. But if they are in the same army, should they all be the same?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 17, 2019, 02:17:52 PM
In the 6th and 7th edition, Swordsmen were the superior choice.

Historically, an army at the time of the Holy Roman Empire in the 16th century would not be "uniform."  Such an army would mainly consist of Landsknechte for hire and levies from various (semi-)feudal lords. Landsknechte bought their own gear, which was very colourful and indiosyncratic, while units in the service of a lord would be normally equipped by their lord, and thus be a bit more uniform and carry his colours.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 17, 2019, 02:55:08 PM
Wow I never heard of those guys and are enjoying reading up on them. Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 17, 2019, 04:35:39 PM
If you rummage through The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=47520.0), you''ll find some contemporary pictures.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 18, 2019, 12:47:19 AM
Holy crap FvS, that thread is awesome and a ton to digest. Will have to read through it when I have some more time.

In the meantime, inspired by what I have read and seen of the Lanksknechte, I managed to scrounge up enough bits to make a unit of 10 Halberds with Champion, Standard, and Musician (got to love those lot purchases - glad I saved everything I didnít think I needed). The best part is I have a bunch of heads with caps and lots of extra feathers so I am really going to pimp these guys out like I have seen in some pics. I didnít really go nuts with my other units so I am excited about doing these guys up.

Wreaths. Knights have them on their shields. My knight spruces came with extras. Are these limited to Knights? If so where else would I put them? Can any of these go on a Spearman or Swordsman Champion or Standard?

Thanks for all the help guys, I am really pumped about my little Empire army.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 18, 2019, 07:46:45 AM
Wreaths. Knights have them on their shields. My knight spruces came with extras. Are these limited to Knights? If so where else would I put them? Can any of these go on a Spearman or Swordsman Champion or Standard?

I think one or two character sprues also have a wreath, and some character heads too. The miniature designers obviously thought that these were a thing for nobility. But naturally, you can put them wherever you want. They could be laurels to adorn a guard unit or a unit that has performed very well in combat.

About the shield designs, I would say that most commoner units had such designs they could afford, using their unit colours or the colours of their sponsoring lord. Yet even some infantry shields could be very ornate and have beautiful art, maybe to depict the individuality of the soldier, or the skills in his family. Most animal emblems had a clear meaning in heraldry. So a heraldic animal (bull, eagle) could either refer to the city/province coat of arms, or to the unit achievements, or even to individual achievements of a soldier.

If you look at the shields in the knight set, you can see there are two themes: the Reiksguard knights, with skulls and laurels, and the Panther knights, obviously with panthers or panther heads. There are four shields of each theme per sprue. So you have thematic uniformity, yet some individuality.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Gankom on May 18, 2019, 04:12:38 PM
That Art History thread truly is a treasure on this board. I have a read through it every few months just to look at the pictures.

For the wreaths, both the individual bit and the shield, I've given them to my unit champions before. I've used it in my fluff to signal bravery, rewards, characters with a bit of backstory or noble origins, etc. Your imagination is the limit.

At one point I started work on a unit of swordsmen that were going to be the household guard for one of my Nobles (Captain model) that couldn't afford greatswords. They were all pimped out with wreaths, the best shields, fancy swords, etc.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 18, 2019, 11:58:13 PM
Outstanding, so I will dress up the champions a little adding a wreath on some. Not all I donít want to over do it. Also on the shields, I hadnít planned on it, but I am def going to customize many of them as suggested. Not quite like the Knights shields, but since I will be mounting some symbol on the shield, I think I will make some slight variations in the colors behind or around them. Maybe add some checkers or some small crest in a corner. I hadnít thought of going that deep into the colors for these guys, but I figure each of my units only have 10 figures I might as well try to make them stand out.

You guys sure know your stuff.

That being said, I didnít realize how ĎEmpireí this board was until I really started looking around lol. I have many interests as my OP states, so after I finalize my Empire stuff, I am moving on to my Orcs, then who knows what. I assume you guys have more interest than just the Empire right? I will want to ask your opinions on all of my armies.

BTW, my Black Coach arrived today and so did my Boar Boyz. Very thankful I got those guys. No idea what the hell I was thinking not getting them sooner. Well, I am trying to stay in something of a budget, but as I was advised when I started getting into this, I might as well give up on any Ďmodestí plan when it comes to collecting. Especially as some of it is OOP.

I really plan to stay within 1000 point armies but I do want some unique looking models. Currently considering getting the new model of the Wood Elf Treeman. I know the kit makes a variety of them but RH only has the one kind and are cool with that. Has anyone played/played against it? Is it too overpowering for small games? I love the model.

Oh, I also wanted to note that I just picked up my 4th Citadel Wood. Only $25 too. Mostly because I heard a rumor GW is replacing it with another and I really like the current one. I also wanted to make each one unique, not only using the various bits that come in them (like the handing sign, etc), but I also want to use many of the Wood Elf creature bits and I think there is a snail in the Bretonnian set too. I didnít want to overdo these by adding all these to each Wood (that would be overkill), but sort of give each base itís own character if that makes sense. Really excited about this. I love trees on the gaming board.

Anyone have any suggestions on where I can buy rivers? I thought of making my own but if there is a nice set out there you would recommend please let me know.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 19, 2019, 03:35:13 AM
I have almost all the WHFB armies except filthy vermin and slimy lizards. Oh, and demons - I donít have them either. So yeah, happy to help / interested in other armies too  :happy:

Most players here know about all the armies - Empire just has the most grounding in real world history too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 19, 2019, 11:59:40 AM
That being said, I didnít realize how ĎEmpireí this board was until I really started looking around lol. I have many interests as my OP states, so after I finalize my Empire stuff, I am moving on to my Orcs, then who knows what. I assume you guys have more interest than just the Empire right? I will want to ask your opinions on all of my armies.

This was THE Empire forum for years, and that's why most of us have joined. But the forum has broadened and gotten more relaxed about the themes over time. Possibly because eventually even hard-core Empire fans build that other army for another faction, and then a third... :)

Anyone have any suggestions on where I can buy rivers? I thought of making my own but if there is a nice set out there you would recommend please let me know.

Gale Force Nine (GF9) did a nice river set with some plasticy flexible material as the base. Very flat and nice looking, usable straight out of the box.

There are several independent wargame terrain makers with river sets on eBay, with varying price/quality points. I had a semi-bad experinece with one, whose ready-painted set turned out to be sloppily painted and made of brittle plaster which broke during shipping despite decent packaging. I'd carefully check that the river pieces are made of either resin or with the GF9 method, and also see what kind of feedback the seller has gotten.

You can also make rivers yourself. You should find several tutorials just by searching. And you should indeed read/watch several, to find out your preferred method.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Gankom on May 19, 2019, 03:51:35 PM
I have at least 1000 points of every single fantasy army except for maybe tomb kings. That might be more like 800. It's a pretty common theme on the board to have multiple armies that's for sure.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 21, 2019, 02:10:06 PM
Useless information incoming.

So when I started collecting WFB stuff, I started before I knew the rules. I knew a lot more about Mordheim than I knew Fantasy Battles. And since I didn't know which edition of the rules I was going to be pursuing, I kind held off reading into the rules too much. But that didn't stop me from collecting the armies.

One of the things I did was create look-alike character models on foot if I had mounts for them, one mounted the other on foot. It was easy when I had an extra Empire and Orc command sprue from the 6th Stater set, but I did this with the Elf Noble, etc. Anyone who had a horse mount, or even the Elf Griffon in the 8th set, got the same guy on foot. I thought at the time, well, what if the guy loses his horse? I don't want to replace the model with some rank and file guy. I was told monsters could die so I assumed horses could too. It wasn't until later did I find that horses just make the model's save better. So I did all this silly work for nothing. Except, that I love it. I guess this gives me some flexibility if I want to play skirmish or play around with my lists, but it also really puts the emphasis on the character leading my armies.

That being said, I picked up the last of what I needed for the Bretonnians which arrived this morning. I have the more 'recent' Battalion set that comes with the single Pegasus Knight, and I picked up an extra helmet that comes in the set that is similar to the Knight on the cover of the box, who I am modelling the General of my army after. So now I have 3 of the same helmet. I picked up an extra Knight-ish looking figure from the command sprue as well. So when I am done, I will have the same jabroni on foot, on horseback, AND on a pegasus. Painted up as he is on the cover of the box. Totally stoked.

I know, I am brilliant.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 21, 2019, 03:45:44 PM
Yes indeed, you ARE brilliant!

Care to take a couple of photos of these guys? It's OK even if you haven't yet painted them, as this kind of kitbashing rocks. :)

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 21, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
It might take some time before I get to the Bretonnians... I started the armies in my starter sets and want to knock them out first. I would love to post pics as I go, but the last time I tried to upload a photo from my iphone the forum said it was too big. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Zygmund on May 21, 2019, 06:12:11 PM
I can't upload photos to the forum. Instead, I use imgur to host the pictures and link from there.

-Z
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on May 22, 2019, 01:34:08 AM
hey, welcome, been watching your progress over at dakka-dakka, good to see you branching out of there.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2019, 02:56:04 PM
Hey man! Yeah I had no choice I got banned! lol

So I recently picked up the Dogs of War, 5th edition army book, and I love it. I have to be honest many moons ago, and it might have been when this book was first published, I remember seeing Braganza's Besiegers in White Dwarf, and really liked them. I always thought if I had a Warhammer army, I would have a unit of those guys in it. Well, I have stayed away from any thought of Dogs of War since they aren't in RH, but RH does mention using 'Mercenaries' as a Rare Choice. I haven't dived deep enough into the 6th edition rules to know how the 5th edition Dogs of War would fit in it. Was there ever 6th edition rules made for these guys? Is it fair to use them as they are in Dogs of War?

Not sure a small unit of the Besiegers would make a difference, but since I am going with small armies anyway, it wouldn't take much to field a unit for some character. What do you guys think? Do I go down this rabbit hole?

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 23, 2019, 03:03:00 PM
They were a 6th ed supplement in the Annuals and Generalís compendium I believe?
Been a while since I thought what book they are in, but yes they have rules.
Probably best to treat them as a standalone army rather than including mercenaries, as the rules for them are in the 6th ed armybooks I think.

Out of curiosity, why were you banned from Dakkadakka? What behaviours do I need to watchout for  ::heretic::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2019, 03:19:18 PM
Out of curiosity, why were you banned from Dakkadakka? What behaviours do I need to watchout for  ::heretic::

Well, I am an easy going guy, but I am going to stick up for myself. Dakka is a pretty snarky place. Lots of arrogance going around too for a bunch of gaming dorks, and for no reason. And the peeps owning most of the fault for this are the mods, who are the absolute worst. I have the feeling they follow their rules for some people, and let them go lax for others, and what ends up happening is posters feel others are getting away with jabs, see no punishment for that, get frustrated, and bitterness follows. And to avoid breaking obvious rules they do things passively. But its all the same shit. Its a very toxic place in my opinion. I have no idea why I posted there as long as I did. I guess cause I don't really bounce around from forum to forum much.

And I guess it can be argued that I am not 'banned' per say, but suspended for a ridiculously long time. Also two of the guys who gave me the most dings stopped being mods. And most of my dings were in the US Politics thread which eventually was shut down.

You are never going to see me getting hostile over gaming. That is just silly. But if you are from outside the US and taking shots at America, well, you are going to get a shot back so to speak. And I don't mean legit criticisms, I mean just acting like a dick.

I don't see a Politics and Religion thread in here so we're good! lol
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on May 23, 2019, 03:30:42 PM
Alright then! Should be fine I think / hope.

There is - its hidden. They can get out of hand, but most of the controversial people have left long ago. Usually it stays in those threads and doesnít affect the rest of the forum. Politics and religion are generally avoided subjects for a reason!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on May 23, 2019, 03:35:14 PM
DoW in 6th edition were published in the WD & the Chronicles, in 3 parts:
- Armies for hire: the basic rules and units (Alessio Cavatore; WD 251 and Annual 2002)
- Regiments of Renown:  special units like Pirazzo's Lost Legion (Alessio Cavatore; WD 252 and Annual 2002)
- Special Characters (Marc Mann; Chronicles 2003)

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on May 23, 2019, 06:12:07 PM
Thanks FoS, it turns out I have some of those books and indeed there are some rules in there. Thanks. I can't believe how much literature was produced for 6th edition. You guys must have been giddy every time a new book came out.

Also while looking over Chronicles 2003 book, I came across the massive FAQ and Errata section. Jesus. I barely have digested the rulebook and see there was a lot of confusion with the rules back then. But then, I guess 40k was like this too. I remember 'lite on the rules, heavy on the FAQs'.

At present I am trying to digest charging and how the models line up. All the diagrams show these neat positions that I can see rarely happen in actual game play. What if a unit of 6-20mm bases is charged from the front at an angle by a 4-wide unit of 25mm bases. How do you determine where the models start to line up as the difference in stands mean that they will overlap each other. Who gets to decide who in the charging unit lines up with who? Especially if the defending unit has to pivot around to face the charge?

All this would make sense in 2min if I could see this in person and ask questions.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 03, 2019, 05:42:16 PM
Hey man! Yeah I had no choice I got banned! lol

So I recently picked up the Dogs of War, 5th edition army book, and I love it. I have to be honest many moons ago, and it might have been when this book was first published, I remember seeing Braganza's Besiegers in White Dwarf, and really liked them. I always thought if I had a Warhammer army, I would have a unit of those guys in it. Well, I have stayed away from any thought of Dogs of War since they aren't in RH, but RH does mention using 'Mercenaries' as a Rare Choice. I haven't dived deep enough into the 6th edition rules to know how the 5th edition Dogs of War would fit in it. Was there ever 6th edition rules made for these guys? Is it fair to use them as they are in Dogs of War?

Not sure a small unit of the Besiegers would make a difference, but since I am going with small armies anyway, it wouldn't take much to field a unit for some character. What do you guys think? Do I go down this rabbit hole?

I just kind of stopped posting there, the one guy flaming 6th every chance he could while promoting 8th kind of got on my nerves. There was bad blood between him and Tony, leaving me to just opt out of that forum all together.

I am slowly piecing together my DoW army. I plan to use my empire stuff as stand in for the cores and such. I have ended up with a decent amount of the Regiments of Renown already too. Giants of Albion, Tichi-Huichi, Cursed Company, Long Drong, Goblin Hewer, and Gotrex and Felix. Never mind all the Ogres I have already from the Ogre Kingdom army, if you didn't know, most of the regular ogre choices are DoW, things like gnoblars, yhettes etc aren't. I would say if you find them cheap, grab them. But don't overpay
 
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Victor on June 04, 2019, 06:19:26 PM
Edit: Fidelis already answered everything.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 04, 2019, 09:08:55 PM
FAE as opposed to FAQ?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 06, 2019, 08:51:54 PM
I just kind of stopped posting there, the one guy flaming 6th every chance he could while promoting 8th kind of got on my nerves. There was bad blood between him and Tony, leaving me to just opt out of that forum all together.

Yeah I think I saw some of those arguments before, and sided with Tony. The thing is, I had no idea which edition I would like the most when I got the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets. I thought that maybe the later versions would be more refined and easier to grasp, and at the least I would get 6 cool and different starter armies out of it. Over time I would digest the rulebooks and then decide which way to go. One of the immediate things I understood about 8th was that the magic was too powerful, and since I was playing small games of mostly units of 10 infantry (with some exceptions), I knew that wasn't for me. Didn't matter what else it had going on for it. And I love wizards and all that, but just prefer they play a role and not dominate.

In the end though, I loved the dark atmosphere of 6th (I always found the previous versions too colorful and circus-like), but most importantly all the literature that was released during it, much of which is going to take me a long time to read through. And it was literature written for 6th. I don't see much for 8th except all of the End of Times stuff which essentially kills the world.

I am attracted to the spirit of the game as much as I am the models and the mechanics themselves. I want an expansive universe, but one that is grounded too. I think that is why I love 6th so much. It isn't just the rules for 6th, but Skirmish, Siege, Mordhiem, etc. The 6th edition is a pretty dense rulebook with a lot to explore, even if it might be thinner that the hardback 7th and 8th edition rulebooks. It manages to give you a variety of ways to play games with the same miniatures. I wish GW had done the same with 40k at the time. Plus I see 7th and 8th being run by the sales department as opposed to the designers who really loved the games. There was obviously a lot of passion for WFB 6th at the time, just as there was for 40k 3rd. Both had pretty long shelf lives and a lot was explored for both.

Quote
I am slowly piecing together my DoW army. I plan to use my empire stuff as stand in for the cores and such. I have ended up with a decent amount of the Regiments of Renown already too. Giants of Albion, Tichi-Huichi, Cursed Company, Long Drong, Goblin Hewer, and Gotrex and Felix. Never mind all the Ogres I have already from the Ogre Kingdom army, if you didn't know, most of the regular ogre choices are DoW, things like gnoblars, yhettes etc aren't. I would say if you find them cheap, grab them. But don't overpay

Yeah I saw in the Ogre Kingdom rulebook they specify that some units can be mercenaries. Brilliant.

BTW, since I am using RH for all my army lists, and Ogre Kingdoms isn't in it, I am essentially applying the same points for Champs, Musicians, and Standards for Ogres as they are in RH, 10 points for each. Anyone see a problem with that? The reason is that across the official army books those values do vary from army to army but they are all the same in RH regardless (except for Calavry). Just wanted to keep things consistent.

I've actually been doing the same thing in 40k as I am with WFB... buying up some of the older Battle Force sets and filling things out to make 700 point armies, so I have been holding up some purchases of WFB.

Oh, I did get those GF9 Rivers that were suggested and yes they are nearly perfect! Pre-painted well enough for me to finish. I had given serious thought to making my own, but this frees up a lot of time. Will touch them up some. Very happy, thanks for the recommendation to whoever recommended those.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 07, 2019, 03:50:36 PM
I just kind of stopped posting there, the one guy flaming 6th every chance he could while promoting 8th kind of got on my nerves. There was bad blood between him and Tony, leaving me to just opt out of that forum all together.

Yeah I think I saw some of those arguments before, and sided with Tony. The thing is, I had no idea which edition I would like the most when I got the 6th, 7th, and 8th starter sets. I thought that maybe the later versions would be more refined and easier to grasp, and at the least I would get 6 cool and different starter armies out of it. Over time I would digest the rulebooks and then decide which way to go. One of the immediate things I understood about 8th was that the magic was too powerful, and since I was playing small games of mostly units of 10 infantry (with some exceptions), I knew that wasn't for me. Didn't matter what else it had going on for it. And I love wizards and all that, but just prefer they play a role and not dominate.

In the end though, I loved the dark atmosphere of 6th (I always found the previous versions too colorful and circus-like), but most importantly all the literature that was released during it, much of which is going to take me a long time to read through. And it was literature written for 6th. I don't see much for 8th except all of the End of Times stuff which essentially kills the world.

I am attracted to the spirit of the game as much as I am the models and the mechanics themselves. I want an expansive universe, but one that is grounded too. I think that is why I love 6th so much. It isn't just the rules for 6th, but Skirmish, Siege, Mordhiem, etc. The 6th edition is a pretty dense rulebook with a lot to explore, even if it might be thinner that the hardback 7th and 8th edition rulebooks. It manages to give you a variety of ways to play games with the same miniatures. I wish GW had done the same with 40k at the time. Plus I see 7th and 8th being run by the sales department as opposed to the designers who really loved the games. There was obviously a lot of passion for WFB 6th at the time, just as there was for 40k 3rd. Both had pretty long shelf lives and a lot was explored for both.

Quote
I am slowly piecing together my DoW army. I plan to use my empire stuff as stand in for the cores and such. I have ended up with a decent amount of the Regiments of Renown already too. Giants of Albion, Tichi-Huichi, Cursed Company, Long Drong, Goblin Hewer, and Gotrex and Felix. Never mind all the Ogres I have already from the Ogre Kingdom army, if you didn't know, most of the regular ogre choices are DoW, things like gnoblars, yhettes etc aren't. I would say if you find them cheap, grab them. But don't overpay

Yeah I saw in the Ogre Kingdom rulebook they specify that some units can be mercenaries. Brilliant.

BTW, since I am using RH for all my army lists, and Ogre Kingdoms isn't in it, I am essentially applying the same points for Champs, Musicians, and Standards for Ogres as they are in RH, 10 points for each. Anyone see a problem with that? The reason is that across the official army books those values do vary from army to army but they are all the same in RH regardless (except for Calavry). Just wanted to keep things consistent.

I've actually been doing the same thing in 40k as I am with WFB... buying up some of the older Battle Force sets and filling things out to make 700 point armies, so I have been holding up some purchases of WFB.

Oh, I did get those GF9 Rivers that were suggested and yes they are nearly perfect! Pre-painted well enough for me to finish. I had given serious thought to making my own, but this frees up a lot of time. Will touch them up some. Very happy, thanks for the recommendation to whoever recommended those.

I understand the draw of the RH book for armies, but it's too simplistic for me, and my collecting has grown to be around 5-10k in points for each army...whoops. So I can look in an army book and pick any unit I want to field. I have a couple left here and there to add more units, but I would have been done a long time ago if I went RH, and with the amount I paint, I'd be out of the hobby quick. I really enjoy the darkness that is in 6th, makes it more grounded and realistic. There is still the insanity with walking ratmen mad scientists and things like the ogres worshipping the great mouth.

I originally packed my stuff up because of 7th. It was like balancing a bag of feathers with a boulder. If you didn't have the last army that came out, you were underpowered, and I didn't see myself buying every army at that point.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on June 07, 2019, 04:01:59 PM
KTG17 - have you considered the other 6th ed material? For example Storm of Chaos alternate army takes. Kislev supplement? Skaven hellpit armylist? Amazons? Undead cairn armylist?

Generally thesr bite size army lists from white dwarf are a lot of fun..,,
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on June 17, 2019, 08:51:17 PM
I have seen some of them, but honestly this is a one man show over here and trying to keep things simple. My friends are not into this stuff like I am, so even if I were to get giddy over a cool list with some options, it would get lost on them. To be honest I have no idea where I would be without RH. RH is what inspired me to get all the armies in it.

I have come across lists here and there, and if I were in some kind of gaming group that was into this like you guys where, I would probably be all about trying them out. But honestly its actually difficult for me to focus on the path I am on because I am actually into so many different things that I weave in and out of things. The more layers or details that get added to something the more complicated it makes it for me.

But I am thinning out a lot of my collections over the last year. Trying to streamline things while buying up old WFB and old 40k lol. I just about have everything I want, so will be able to get back into diving deeper into the lore and rules and all that.

I want to post some pics of what I have. What is an easy image host that I can use to upload images from my phone?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on June 19, 2019, 08:03:16 AM
No probs.
Photobucket used to be the platform of choice until they made some major changes and also held peoples pictures hostage.
I use Imgur nowadays.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 22, 2019, 08:29:52 AM
KTG17 - have you considered the other 6th ed material? For example Storm of Chaos alternate army takes. Kislev supplement? Skaven hellpit armylist? Amazons? Undead cairn armylist?

Generally thesr bite size army lists from white dwarf are a lot of fun..,,

What is this hellpit list?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on June 22, 2019, 09:30:00 AM
The Hell Pit Army List is a Clan Moulder Army list (Hell Pit being the Clan's  base) with emphasis on monstrous elements. It was published in WD 311 (Nov 2005) as a "Warhammer Chronicles" article.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: brr-icy on June 24, 2019, 08:55:31 PM
Interesting,  i'll look that up. Moulder hasn't always been my strong clan lol
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 25, 2019, 08:20:34 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, you are in for a real treat!

So I got side-tracked with 40k. Went crazy buying up a final wishlist before I stop looking at modern 40k forever, but now I am back into WFB!

In that time I finished off purchasing the remaining 1000 point armies on my to-do list, and, just as many would predict, I went ahead and bought a few more models beyond my initial plan. So I went from a naive 700 point list for each race, got talked into expanding to 1000 point, then on my own picked up some odd 300 points or so for some of the armies. Some of this came about because I purchased some lots and just had some extras, others I went after just because I liked the model and thought it would be fun to build and paint.

So I am going to share my base 1000 point armies, and mention the other models I have to mix things up. These are all based on Ravening Hordes unless noted.  Enjoy!

********************************************************************************************************
Empire (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

*** Also *** I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf (5) and a unit of Halberds (10).


********************************************************************************************************
Orcs (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Rending Axe - 35

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boar Boyz (5) - 85
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chariot - 80


********************************************************************************************************
Dwarves (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Thane - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Axe of Cleaving - 50

Dragon Slayer - 90*
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 6

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Miners (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Thunderers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Longbeards (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironbreakers (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dwarf Cannon - 100

*** Also *** I have a custom made Runesmith I am proud of. Maybe will use him one day. I am thinking about getting a Gyrocopter at some point.

* Also, I know the Dragon Slayer is officially part of a unit, he came as an individual in the set and just going to leave him as a character.


********************************************************************************************************
Goblins (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
and I am really excited about these guys
********************************************************************************************************

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Bronze Axe - 50
 + Light Armor - 2

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2

Shaman - 50
 + Badum Staff - 50

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Bows - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Spider Riders (10) - 80 *
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

River Trolls (3) - 180 *

2 Bolt Throwers - 60

2 Goblin Chariots - 120

* I know the Spider Riders and River Trolls are RARE choices and an army this small is only allowed to have 1 choice, I love the Trolls and don't want any more Goblins. I originally had this list padded with Orcs, but decided to go all Goblin. Let me know if this breaks my army.


********************************************************************************************************
High Elves (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Elven Steed - 12
 + Boarded Steed - 4

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Mage - 85
 + Crown of Saphery - 20

Spearmen (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Sea Guard (10) - 150
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmasters (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ellyrian Reavers (5) - 85
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 25
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100

*** Also *** I have the Prince on the Griffon but he is a Lord, as well as a unit of Silver Helms. I didn't need the Helms but I saw them on Ebay for what seemed like a good price and figured why not.


********************************************************************************************************
Skaven (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Weeping Blade - 50

Warlock Engineer - 60
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Pistol - 7
 + Warpstone Armor - 40

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Spears - 40
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Stormvermin (20) - 140
 + Halberds - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Beast Master - 10
Rat Ogres (2) - 80

Wind Mortar - 65 (Just using the Army book for this)

Fire Thrower - 24


*** Also *** I picked up a Doomwheel as I wanted something unique and are debating on picking up some Plague Monks. I thought about a Jazzail unit, but those models are kinda pricey... And I already have a couple of support teams.

I know it doesn't feel like I have enough Clanrats... But as it is I have to paint some 120 Skaven :o


********************************************************************************************************
Lizardmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Spear - 4
 + Cold One - 20

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Sword of Might - 20

Skink Shaman - 65

Cold Ones (5) - 110
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Temple Guard (10) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skink Skirmishers (5) - 20
 + Javelins and Shields - 15

*** Also *** I am working on a Skink Hero, I have a Serpent Swarm, and are seriously thinking of picking up one of the new Stegadons. I am not sure I will ever use it but its a great looking model. I know I have a lot of points in characters but its what I have.


********************************************************************************************************
Wood Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Bow of Loren - 50

Mage - 75
 + Talsman of Protection

Glade Riders (5) - 95
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Glade Guard (10) - 80
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Archers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dryads (5) - 155

Dryads (5) - 155

Scouts (5) - 70

*** Also *** recently picked up a plastic Treeman. Not sure I will ever use it... seems pretty powerful for small games, but I loved the model.


********************************************************************************************************
Chaos Warriors (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Aspiring Champion - 70
 + Chaos Armor - 8
 + Shield - 2
 + Chaos Tomb Blade - 50

Sorcerer - 80

Marauder Cheiftain - 45
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Shield - 2

Chaos Knights (5) - 155
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Warriors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Flails- 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120
 
Chaos Chariot - 100

*** Also *** I do have a version of my Marauder Cheiftain that is mounted, so I might change the magic stuff around to field it. I thought for small games it would be neat to have a put Marauder warband, so I got extra bits to make him.


********************************************************************************************************
Daemon Host (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

I have to be honest here I am still working on this.


********************************************************************************************************
Brettonians (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Paladin - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pegasus - 50
 + Lance - 4

Wizard - 60
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Knights of the Realm (6) - 162
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Squires (5) - 20
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Warhorses - 35
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

*** Not quite 1000 points as I have a few extra models and bits and was going to try and include a Paladin on foot. If not will have to go a little more crazy with some magic items. I know I am supposed to have 10 Squires, but just getting the 5 that I got was pricey enough. I really like the squires though I hope to post pics of what I did with them soon. And yes, I did have to buy additional Bretonnian bits to make the complete units that I did.


********************************************************************************************************
Beastmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 60
 + Armor of Bones - 30


Shaman - 75
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Beastigors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ungors (10) - 30
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Minotaurs (3) - 135
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120

Beastmen Chariot - 70

*** The Beastmen Chariot I literally just found in a game store in North Carolina while I was on vaca and I got it for $27! I was pretty surprised. Before I had this I was overloading up on magic items. Really excited to have it.


********************************************************************************************************
Dark Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Biting Blade - 10

Sorcerer - 95
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Cold One Knights (5) - 140
 + Lances - 10
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

*** Also *** I have the Corsair Commander figure as well as the Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower. I love having an artillery piece so will prob move some things around to include it in my army.


********************************************************************************************************
Vampire Counts (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Vampire Thrall - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Ring of Barrows - 45

Necromancer - 65
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Wight Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Grave Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Zombies (20) - 100

Crypt Ghouls (10) - 90

Bat Swarm - 50

Dire Wolves (10) - 110

*** Also *** got the Black Coach!

I was told that Skeletons and Zombies should really be in units of at least 20 even though I prefer to keep units to their minimum. Let me know what you think about that.


********************************************************************************************************
Tomb Kings (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Tomb Lord - 95
 + Bow - 8
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Liche Priest - 45
 + Some scrolls....

Skeleton Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Spears - 5
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 120
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (10) - 60
 + Bows - 30
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Tomb Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Charioteers (3) - 150
 + Bows - 12
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15


Was thinking about hunting down a Screaming Catapult...


********************************************************************************************************
Ogre Kingdoms (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

NOTE! I am using the Army Book points for the models, but the RH point costs for the Champions, Standards, and Musicians. Just seemed better to keep things consistent.

Bruiser - 130
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 8
 
Leadbelchers (3) - 165
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Hobgoblins (20) - 40

*** Also *** have 20 more Hobgoblins.



Ok thats it what do you all think?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on July 25, 2019, 08:41:50 PM
I'm thinking you're moving full speed ahead! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 27, 2019, 01:57:48 PM
Not enough infantry models in your empire list - too much points on mounted captains. Empire infantry are horde infantry meaning you need bigger units than 10 models to be useful. 16 in 4x4 at a minimum, 20 is better. Especially fighting clanrats and skeletons, or enemy elite units that also have 10 models.

Otherwise I like where most of the way the rest of the armies are progressing!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 27, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
What Warlord says. Also: give your Wizard the Rod of Power instead. That was one of our best items.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on July 27, 2019, 03:18:42 PM
More Empire infantry could be good! :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 30, 2019, 01:42:53 PM
Thanks for all your input! I will look into that rod.

The thing about the units of 10... I know if I were playing any kind of serious gamer my empire army would get crushed, but keep in mind I am I am trying to do 3 things: (1) Have some variety and (2) keep the costs down. The great thing about not pursuing a 2000 point Empire army for example and only get a 1000 point one, is that it free's up cash to buy another 1000 army from another race. Granted I have gone over that 1000 point amount here and there, but that has usually been due to the model itself and not what it does for the army. The (3) is also... man I don't have a lot of time. And I am REALLY eclectic. Just imagine what I have done here with WFB in the last couple of years and throw in half a dozen other interests. I am really all over the place. So if I go crazy, I will never get many of these models painted let alone built.

Also, I am putting a lot of effort in giving each model its own character as much as I can. Like my rank and file Empire guys rarely share the same head.

Also, most of my starters, as well as the additional box sets that I have bought, usually come with a minimum of 10 guys. I have been thinking about the mobs of 20 Skaven... the Island of Blood came with 2 units of Elves who were in units of 10, against those two units of 20 Clanrats... so that is why I assumed 10 all around would be an okay number. I never though the Empire was a horde army, like Skaven or Undead would be. I also can't imagine fielding a unit of only 10 Clanrats either. That doesn't seem right.

Also, I do have a lot of points in some of the army's characters, I know that. That is usually due to what models I have.

A couple of more things.... I have started looking a Siege. Has anyone ever played a game using a fortress? Was it fun? I prefer battles involving movement and I am not sure how exciting a castle would be.

And when I wrote my army lists above, I had purchased the Skaven Doomwheel but hadn't received it yet. Well I got it. And I love it. I swear GW was making some amazing models in the last couple editions of WFB. I wasn't at all impressed with the original Doomwheel.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 30, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
Well, you could use the Spearmen as proxies for the Halberdiers (or vice versa). That would give you a 20-strong unit, that would also allow you to use the Swordsmen and/or Handgunners as Detachments.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 30, 2019, 04:53:39 PM
How would a 10 man Empire unit match up against:

10 Skaven Clan Rats (as opposed to 20)
or
10 Skeletons
?

Oh, BTW, I did pick up a Dwarf Gyrocopter. Then I read the rules. It seems kind of useless. But I needed something of a rare choice.

Oh part 2, I made a mistake in my Dwarves army list. I don't have Longbeards, I have Hammerers. I like the Longbeard models better tho, but they come with Great Axes and RH says not so fast its hand weapons and shields, and I believe that option isnt included in the set. I guess the Hammerer models are different though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 30, 2019, 06:45:21 PM
Well, I will not crunch the numbers, but the Clanrats have two major advantages: M5 and I4. In the 6th edition, the attacker strikes first and there is no step-up. Any model you kill first means less attacks against you. With I4, the Clanrats will strike before Halberdiers & Swordsmen, and simultaneously with the Swordsmen. However, M5 makes it more likely that the Clanrats will be able to attack and thus strike first in the first round of CC against Swordsmen too.
The Skeletons have one big advantage: Fear. In the 6th, Fear was far more powerful than in the 8th edition.
That is why in the 6th (and 7th) edition, Swordsmen were the superior choice, since they had WS4, I4, and a 4+ AS. You'd stiil want at least 20 of them, though.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 30, 2019, 08:55:35 PM
Ahh... I missed those stats on the Swordsman. I just assumed they were the same as everyone else. I can see why peeps like them. Well, they are a core part of my army now!

That being said, I know you want me to play in big blocks, but I don't ever see me and my friends ever playing competitively. I like units of 10 for basic infantry, 5 for cavalry, as I seem to buy them in those numbers most of the time, so I will prob just keep it that way. And I am okay with a strong unit of 10 guys overwhelming a unit of weaker 10 guys. That makes sense and means a player should rely on tactics and supporting fire to help out as opposed to just rank bonuses. I know in some armies, like Goblins, you just have to go with 20 (not just because of the rules, but they are just poor fighters), but does this mean I should consider using units of 10 for Skaven, Skeletons, and Zombies as well? I guess if I use RH as a guide, if I just go with the minimum for each unit, I should still be somewhat balanced.

I am not sure I have all the command models I need if I went that route tho...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 02:18:08 PM
To my mind, if you are curating the collections, you are creating the meta on which armies will dominate all games. This is basically about giving everyone a fair chance to win with any army using the units in the army provided, and tactics and luck. And that is the basis of your players having a fun time. Just a fair chance.

Firstly, let's address your measure of '5 for cav, 10 for infantry'.

I think you need to differentiate between basic infantry and elite infantry. Elite infantry at unit size 10 is fine. Basic, or 'horde' infantry you should be looking at 16-20, even up to 24 size.

10 'basic' infantry in most cases means cavalry and elite infantry will slaughter them almost every time. 10 for basic infantry means they are chaff (disposable) - but if all you have is chaff you won't ever win a battle.

You asked to compare 10 empire troops vs 10 clanrats - that fight has a fair chance to go either way. Just as 20 vs 20 of the same type. But what about 10 empire troops vs 10 black orcs, or 10 clanrats vs 10 chaos warriors. Elite infantry will pretty much win every time.
That's where you need to differentiate between elite infantry numbers and basic / horde infantry numbers.

I know you don't see empire troops as a 'horde', but the troop cost aligns to that...

I understand budget constraints and time will make this a challenge, and a lot of your army mixes and units are not far off anyway.
If you have the 6th ed starter box, I think that came with 16 spearmen and 16 handgunners and a command sprue?
The extra 10 halberds will help, but if you can even arrange for them to be units of 12 or 15 or 16 instead of 10, I think it will help.

Anyway, I will give my quick view on fair unit sizes for the armies you have listed below. I am not talking uber competitive or optimised, just a general range on what would produce a fair fight.

-----------

Regardless, some of your other points:

Gyrocopter's purpose is to slow enemy advance by March Blocking, allowing more time for shooting.
In that way, it's a good distraction for the enemy.
Which model did you get? The new plastic one, or the older metal one?

Longbeards and Hammerers are both good elites. I wouldn't worry about axes, because there is no 'axe' rule. Either Hand Weapon or Great Weapon. Also, in 7th edition GW phased out the Longbeard models, so just more fancier warriors would be fine for models. That said, you have hammerer models. They are great.

I have not played Siege, but I think it generally suits some armies better than others. Could be fun for you and your friends though.

Like you say, the 'new' doomwheel is great. The old one was.... not.

I would love to see a photo of your Runesmith.

Next post will be my high level feedback.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 03:05:39 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, you are in for a real treat!

Yes it is. I love that you shared this.

********************************************************************************************************
Empire (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Captain (as my General) - 50
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Captain - 50
 + Sword of Swift Slaying - 25
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Shield - 2
 + Warhorse - 10
 + Barding - 4

Battle Wizard - 60
 + Ring of Volans - 30
 + Power Stone - 20
 + Warhorse - 10

Knightly Order (5) - 120
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Spearmen (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Handgunners (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmen(10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Great Cannon - 100

Mortar - 80

*** Also *** I have a unit of Knights of the White Wolf (5) and a unit of Halberds (10).


Knights of the White Wolf are a great pick here.
Again, combining the halberds into the spearmen unit would be my suggestion to make a unit of 20 spearmen
Greatswords would be a great pick though, but 5th, 6th, 7th ed versions are all quite expensive. Great models though.

If you could get some of the more exotic units from Ravening Hordes for these guys, could be a bit of fun, like Flagellants, Reiksguard foot or Halflings, will make them standout from the Bretonnians.



********************************************************************************************************
Orcs (Based on what came in the 6th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Big Boss (General) - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Boar - 12
 + Rending Axe - 35

Shaman - 65
 + Badum Staff - 50

Big Boss - 65
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Black Orcs (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Extra Choppa - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boyz (10) - 50
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Arrer Boyz (10) - 50
 + Bows - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Boar Boyz (5) - 85
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chariot - 80


The 2 units of boyz are fine as units of 10, or could combine into a unit of 20. Mixed weapons look in a unit of Orcs is fine.

Some Savage Orcs might make the army more visually interesting and fun, but again, could be expensive - the 6th ed and 7th ed models were not cheap. Both great sets though. You could always paint the Boyz with 2 hand weapons as savages, with the war paint and that could work too.

A Giant could look good here too.
Or you could even use Ogres here too as the Rare choice if they are not going up against them.


********************************************************************************************************
Dwarves (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Thane - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pistol - 7
 + Axe of Cleaving - 50

Dragon Slayer - 90*
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 6

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Miners (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Thunderers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Longbeards (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironbreakers (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dwarf Cannon - 100

*** Also *** I have a custom made Runesmith I am proud of. Maybe will use him one day. I am thinking about getting a Gyrocopter at some point.

* Also, I know the Dragon Slayer is officially part of a unit, he came as an individual in the set and just going to leave him as a character.



I think the Slayer as a character is fine. In the armybook, they do that anyway.


********************************************************************************************************
Goblins (Based on what came in the 7th Starter)
and I am really excited about these guys
********************************************************************************************************

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Bronze Axe - 50
 + Light Armor - 2

Night Goblin Big Boss - 30
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Light Armor - 2

Shaman - 50
 + Badum Staff - 50

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Night Goblins (20) - 40
 + Bows - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Spider Riders (10) - 80 *
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

River Trolls (3) - 180 *

2 Bolt Throwers - 60

2 Goblin Chariots - 120

* I know the Spider Riders and River Trolls are RARE choices and an army this small is only allowed to have 1 choice, I love the Trolls and don't want any more Goblins. I originally had this list padded with Orcs, but decided to go all Goblin. Let me know if this breaks my army.


I think this army is fairly strong actually. Its good. Consider some fanatics for some extra craziness. Goblins are an army that is supposed to make your laugh.



********************************************************************************************************
High Elves (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Sword of Might - 20
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Elven Steed - 12
 + Boarded Steed - 4

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Mage - 85
 + Crown of Saphery - 20

Spearmen (10) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Sea Guard (10) - 150
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Swordmasters (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ellyrian Reavers (5) - 85
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 25
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Repeater Bolt Thrower - 100

*** Also *** I have the Prince on the Griffon but he is a Lord, as well as a unit of Silver Helms. I didn't need the Helms but I saw them on Ebay for what seemed like a good price and figured why not.


I think Silver Helms balance this army. Some Archers would be great, but Sea Guard can do that I guess.



********************************************************************************************************
Skaven (Based on what came in the 8th Starter)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 50
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Weeping Blade - 50

Warlock Engineer - 60
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Pistol - 7
 + Warpstone Armor - 40

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Spears - 40
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Clanrats (20) - 120
 + Shields - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Stormvermin (20) - 140
 + Halberds - 40
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Beast Master - 10
Rat Ogres (2) - 80

Wind Mortar - 65 (Just using the Army book for this)

Fire Thrower - 24


*** Also *** I picked up a Doomwheel as I wanted something unique and are debating on picking up some Plague Monks. I thought about a Jazzail unit, but those models are kinda pricey... And I already have a couple of support teams.

I know it doesn't feel like I have enough Clanrats... But as it is I have to paint some 120 Skaven :o


Itís a solid army, especially with the addition of the Doomwheel.
I personally hate skaven, but consider if you want a unit of 20 slaves in there too for chaff, or some skirmishers to do something different.



********************************************************************************************************
Lizardmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Spear - 4
 + Cold One - 20

Saurus Hero - 100
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Sword of Might - 20

Skink Shaman - 65

Cold Ones (5) - 110
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Spears - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Saurus Warriors (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Temple Guard (10) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skink Skirmishers (5) - 20
 + Javelins and Shields - 15

*** Also *** I am working on a Skink Hero, I have a Serpent Swarm, and are seriously thinking of picking up one of the new Stegadons. I am not sure I will ever use it but its a great looking model. I know I have a lot of points in characters but its what I have.


I feel like you need more Skinks in this army. Stegadon would be great.



********************************************************************************************************
Wood Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2
 + Bow of Loren - 50

Mage - 75
 + Talsman of Protection

Glade Riders (5) - 95
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Glade Guard (10) - 80
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Archers (10) - 120
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Dryads (5) - 155

Dryads (5) - 155

Scouts (5) - 70

*** Also *** recently picked up a plastic Treeman. Not sure I will ever use it... seems pretty powerful for small games, but I loved the model.


I think this army is lacking. The Treeman may seem powerful, but thatís what cannons or heroes are for. Don't shy away from it, its kinda the only thing that will give this army a chance for a player who doesn't know how to play avoidance.
Wardancers are a lot of fun too though as an option



********************************************************************************************************
Chaos Warriors (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Aspiring Champion - 70
 + Chaos Armor - 8
 + Shield - 2
 + Chaos Tomb Blade - 50

Sorcerer - 80

Marauder Cheiftain - 45
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Shield - 2

Chaos Knights (5) - 155
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Warriors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Marauders (10) - 40
 + Flails- 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120
 
Chaos Chariot - 100

*** Also *** I do have a version of my Marauder Cheiftain that is mounted, so I might change the magic stuff around to field it. I thought for small games it would be neat to have a put Marauder warband, so I got extra bits to make him.


Marauder Cavalry would make this well rounded, and the box set is great. Consider it.




********************************************************************************************************
Daemon Host (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

I have to be honest here I am still working on this.


I'm not great with Demons either.


********************************************************************************************************
Brettonians (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Paladin - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Pegasus - 50
 + Lance - 4

Wizard - 60
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Knights of the Realm (6) - 162
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Man-at-Arms (10) - 30
 + Halberds - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bowmen (10) - 80
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Squires (5) - 20
 + Spears - 5
 + Bows - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Warhorses - 35
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

*** Not quite 1000 points as I have a few extra models and bits and was going to try and include a Paladin on foot. If not will have to go a little more crazy with some magic items. I know I am supposed to have 10 Squires, but just getting the 5 that I got was pricey enough. I really like the squires though I hope to post pics of what I did with them soon. And yes, I did have to buy additional Bretonnian bits to make the complete units that I did.


Need more knights.
You need to differentiate between the human armies, and Bretonnians should be full of knights.
The Men-at-Arms suffer from the same problem as the Empire troops - combine the 2 units of 10 into 1 of 20.
And get at least 1 more unit of knights.
I wouldn't worry about the Squires thing - they are 10+ because they simplified the rules to cover them as foot skirmishers too. 5 is fine.
Don't forget to get more knights. Old 5th ed knights should be easy to track down? Can be a lot of fun to convert them as Questing or Grail Knights.
I am excited you got the Paladin on Pegasus. A lot of fun there.




********************************************************************************************************
Beastmen (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Chieftain - 60
 + Armor of Bones - 30


Shaman - 75
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Beastigors (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Gors (10) - 50
 + Light Armor - 10
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ungors (10) - 30
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Minotaurs (3) - 135
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Chaos Hounds (10) - 120

Beastmen Chariot - 70

*** The Beastmen Chariot I literally just found in a game store in North Carolina while I was on vaca and I got it for $27! I was pretty surprised. Before I had this I was overloading up on magic items. Really excited to have it.


The Gors would be the same advice as I had for the Orc Boyz. Fine separate, or as 1 unit of 20 with 'mixed weapons' to be whichever option you like.
Don't forget, you can borrow the Chaos Hounds in this army too.
I think the Ungors need to be bigger, but I think they can be expensive to buy nowadays.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 03:05:56 PM
********************************************************************************************************
Dark Elves (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Commander - 65
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Shield - 2
 + Biting Blade - 10

Sorcerer - 95
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Cold One Knights (5) - 140
 + Lances - 10
 + Light Armor - 9
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 20
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Corsairs (10) - 100
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Repeater Crossbows - 50
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Warriors (10) - 70
 + Spears - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

*** Also *** I have the Corsair Commander figure as well as the Dark Elf Repeater Bolt Thrower. I love having an artillery piece so will prob move some things around to include it in my army.


Is that the commander with the squid helmet? I never got him. Cool figure.
Get that Repeater.



********************************************************************************************************
Vampire Counts (Based on what came in the Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Vampire Thrall - 70
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Biting Blade - 10
 + Ring of Barrows - 45

Necromancer - 65
 + Talisman of Protection - 15

Wight Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Grave Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 140
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Zombies (20) - 100

Crypt Ghouls (10) - 90

Bat Swarm - 50

Dire Wolves (10) - 110

*** Also *** got the Black Coach!

I was told that Skeletons and Zombies should really be in units of at least 20 even though I prefer to keep units to their minimum. Let me know what you think about that.


Units of 20 for both of those is appropriate.
Black Coach will be fun. Great mix of units.



********************************************************************************************************
Tomb Kings (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

Tomb Lord - 95
 + Bow - 8
 + Light Armor - 2
 + Shield - 2

Liche Priest - 45
 + Some scrolls....

Skeleton Cavalry (5) - 100
 + Spears - 5
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15

Skeleton Warriors (20) - 120
 + Light Armor - 20
 + Shields - 10
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Warriors (10) - 60
 + Bows - 30
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Tomb Guard (10) - 110
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Skeleton Charioteers (3) - 150
 + Bows - 12
 + Champion - 15
 + Standard - 15
 + Musician - 15


Was thinking about hunting down a Screaming Catapult...


Also a great mix of units. Catapult would be the final touch.



********************************************************************************************************
Ogre Kingdoms (Based on what came in the 8th Edition Battalion set)
********************************************************************************************************

NOTE! I am using the Army Book points for the models, but the RH point costs for the Champions, Standards, and Musicians. Just seemed better to keep things consistent.

Bruiser - 130
 + Heavy Armor - 4
 + Additional Hand Weapon - 8
 
Leadbelchers (3) - 165
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Ironguts (3) - 144
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Bulls (3) - 105
 + Champion - 10
 + Standard - 10
 + Musician - 10

Hobgoblins (20) - 40

*** Also *** have 20 more Hobgoblins.


I assume you mean Gnoblars, not Hobgoblins?
This is fine. They will do well against most of these armies. A ScrapLauncher is a lot of fun too.


Ok thats it what do you all think?

I think you are missing a Chaos Dwarf army!

Can be expensive, or can be a lot of fun conversionsÖ.

And perhaps a Dogs of War army?

No pressure!  :biggriin:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 03:14:26 PM
Thanks for all the feedback, I am appreciating it.

I guess I should point out that the 7th and 8th starter sets pretty much had the biggest influences on me on how I set out to do this. In those sets, the Dwarves and Elves were in units of 10 for infantry and in the case of the Elves, their cavalry in a unit of 5. The Goblins and Skaven units were twice that, so I assumed that was because they were lesser units.

The contents of the 6th edition kind of left me confused, and I just assumed they came in the numbers they did because of how GW put the figures on sprues at the time. And since I got all of the starters at once, I thought I would sort of unify the strategy and just model the Empire and Ork armies on how the other armies were packaged. And the best part, since I was sure of my plan, I sold off my empire extras to buy other stuff.  :eusa_wall:

Even still, I don't have a problem of 10 elite troops wiping the floor with 10 basic troops. I assume that other things would happen though, like these units having to cross ground which might be covered with ranged weapons for example. All this is theoretical though, I know. I am still digesting the rules as I have time (I took on magic the other day and wow a lot of dice rolling for little result).

I guess if I am going to stick to the minimum unit size for the Empire, I probably should do that for everyone. I didn't realize the Clanrats were as good as they were. I just assumed since they came in a block of 20 in the 8th set, which looks great to me, up against units of 10 for Elves, that that seemed to be the right number to use against everyone. Ravening Hordes has them coming in units of 10 and maybe that is where I should keep them. Which means I now need more command models!  :icon_mad:

Since I am playing small games, I think smaller unit sizes means more options on the table. I dont want to sink a lot of points into a few formations and it just becomes moving everyone to the center of the board and rolling dice.

As far as the Gyrocopter... I got the metal one. I didn't know there was a plastic one. Crap I would have bought a plastic one if I knew it existed. The metal one looks really wimpy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
No problem! I love the scale of what you are trying to do.
I did that, and didn't stop.
But I also didn't collect everything. I don't have Bretonnians, Lizardmen, Skaven or Demons. But I have the rest.

Ultimately my main feedback is on the human armies, 1 for you to differentiate them, and 2, to ensure the combat infantry is treated the same as clanrats, skeletons and goblins, because their capabilities aren't that different. What 8th ed setup for you was right. The elites should be 10, and the basics should be 20. That way either side can win. And each army you are building will have options and strategies for crossing the field under fire or flanking, or bait and flee. Don't have the human armies be the un-fun ones because they start off at such a disadvantage.

The other feedback, is if you have a few extra models in places, consider not putting full command on every unit. Sometimes not even any command at all. it will save you points to field all your models, and some units don't benefit from the extra cost - especially missile troops, but especially the human missile troops of 10 models, and also the Elven missile troops too. Dwarves can handle themselves, Orcs and Goblins should be running forward and shooting and getting stuck in, so its fine for them.

Regarding selling off, I think with some swaps, like adding the halberds to the spearmen, and combining the 2 men at arms units, you get there.
I know you don't seem to mind elites beating basics, but its more that once those human basics are gone, there isn't anything left. Everyone expects humans to die to elites regardless, you just want them to put up a little bit of a fight in the process, and that's all adding the extra numbers does.

Sorry to keep harping on.

I really don't think you should drop basics down to 10 models.

Keep in mind that games, even at 1000 points can take a while to play. Like you say about magic, a lot of rolling for little effect.
I think mostly your mix of units would mean a decent game at a casual pace with a beer could take about 2 hours, maybe more or less depending on how luck shines on you.

No, the metal Gyrocopter is cool. I just always had trouble keeping it stuck together. I sold it when they announced the plastic one, and then for quite a while I didn't like the look of the plastic one. I need to buy one one of these days.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 31, 2019, 03:29:45 PM
On a side note: you could use unit fillers to enlarge your units without (too much of an) extra cost.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 03:48:46 PM
If you could get some of the more exotic units from Ravening Hordes for these guys, could be a bit of fun, like Flagellants, Reiksguard foot or Halflings, will make them standout from the Bretonnians.

Did they make plastic Reiksguard on foot?

Quote
Some Savage Orcs might make the army more visually interesting and fun, but again, could be expensive - the 6th ed and 7th ed models were not cheap.

I like the Savage Ork models but I thought it should be either I go all savage, or not at all...

Quote
I think this army is fairly strong actually. Its good. Consider some fanatics for some extra craziness. Goblins are an army that is supposed to make your laugh.

There seems to be an extra layer of rules for these guys and that kind of intimidates me with a system with already having a ton of rules. Will look into them. I do like the plastic models I might as well buy a couple.......

Quote
I feel like you need more Skinks in this army. Stegadon would be great.

Well, I got all those Saurus models in the Battalion set, so I would prefer to use up all of them if I can.

Quote
I think this army is lacking. The Treeman may seem powerful, but thatís what cannons or heroes are for. Don't shy away from it, its kinda the only thing that will give this army a chance for a player who doesn't know how to play avoidance.

Yeah I agree on the lacking part. I have what I have from the Battalion set. I looked weak to me but I thought maybe things were in the rules that would make them shine through. Will tinker with it.

Quote
Need more knights.
Well they are pricey! And if I include more, then I have to give up another unit that I paid big $$$ for lol. I am kinda stuck at the moment.

Quote
Is that the commander with the squid helmet? I never got him. Cool figure.

No, I went a cheaper route and bought extra random Dark Elf bits to make one. I will post pics when I get to him. To be honest, Dark Elves are a long way off on my list of things to do.

Quote
Units of 20 for both of those is appropriate.

But should I be doing 10 now??? Since I am going RH minimums?

Quote
I assume you mean Gnoblars, not Hobgoblins?

Yes, sorry.

And yes! I plan to do Chaos Dwarves. I was all set to buy some on eBay, but the key unit I wanted was being sold in a lot, and I lost the auction and the excitement. Will get around to them some day. I have a army list. Will share it and see what you think soon.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 05:42:55 PM
Quick question:

After going back and forth on it, I have decided to base all of chariots with chariot bases, rather than using just bases for the horses. This is a little difficult for me as not all of the models came with them, and they are hard to find now. The Black Coach tho, is pretty big, and is actually too big for the normal chariot base. I thought about jerry-rigging a chariot base with another base and filling and sanding the gaps to make it look nice, but then I thought why not use a monster base? Would this be ok? I saw somewhere a sheet that included all of the base sizes for all units in Warhammer at the time, but I don't know if the Black Coach was assigned to one back then. I know my model didnt come with one and I got is sealed. What do you think? Does it matter?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 31, 2019, 06:59:46 PM
The 6th edition Black Coach did not come with a base for the actual chariot, but the base size of the chariot itself should be 50x100mm (or for chariot+mounts 100x150mm).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 07:06:11 PM
Ok thanks I can jerry-rig one then. Prob for the best. The monster base is awfully wide. Too wide.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on July 31, 2019, 07:18:25 PM
Uh, yes, my mistake that should be 50x150mm.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on July 31, 2019, 10:05:57 PM
The 6th edition Black Coach did not come with a base for the actual chariot, but the base size of the chariot itself should be 50x100mm (or for chariot+mounts 100x150mm).

I think you should use a chariot base, and you will need to cut the horses off their slotta bits to make it all fit. If you keep them in their slottaís, you will need a monster base and another cavalry base to get all 4 wheels on a base. The black coach is LONG.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on July 31, 2019, 11:10:09 PM
Yeah I donít think everything will fit on a chariot base no matter what I do. I was anticipating not using he slots for the horses too. Either I extend the chariot base with a single cavalry base sideways, or extended it with a 50mm square base. The thing is I prefer that it fits as nicely as other chariots fit on their bases, so not so big and not so small.

Btw, are you guys basing your artillery? I have a single 75mm-50mm base which is perfect for the Great Cannon, but I donít know what it was originally for and I am not finding any units that would have used it. Itís a GW base tho.

The thing is that basing the artillery is a double sword... the machine looks like itís part of a diorama, but the crew doesnít always fit well on it or near it, and I def donít want to attach them to the machineís base.

I figure if I am basing everyone else I might as well do them too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 01, 2019, 12:57:05 AM
Ok I created a flickr account and I hate it. Might move on to something else soon, but in the meantime... here is a quick pic of my collection:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48427094057_49ff03f0fa_z.jpg)

The great thing about the battalion boxes is that they hold most of the army until and after I build them. And if I got an army in a starter set, I am just using the starter set, so not buying a High Elf Battalion set for example.

Edit: Oh yeah, while I am at it, here is the Runesmith I was talking about.

Now, when I got the Battle for Skull Pass and Ravening Hordes, I realized that the set came with 12 Dwarf Warriors and 8 Miners, which didn't make any sense to me. So I went shopping for a couple of more Miners to meet the 10 minimum, and was lucky to score three miners with their Standard Bearer on Ebay for cheap. I didn't have any use at the time for the Standard Bearer, but I got the idea later to try and convert the last miner into the Runesmith using part of the standard from the Standard Bearer, to make some kind of staff thing. I don't know what I was doing, but this is what I came up with. Oh I also swapped helmets with one of the left over warriors I had since I only wanted 10. I will eventually add some more bits left over from my Iron Breakers set when I figure out what I don't need. Maybe a shield or something slung over his back. With an axe of course.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48427150696_aee087963c_k.jpg)

Anything to save a few bucks... go easy on me.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 01, 2019, 07:31:04 AM
You can use an old CD-disc to base war machines on. It should fit all models, and can serve as a reminder that war machines do not have flanks or a rear.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 01, 2019, 11:13:30 AM
Oh wait, I have a band saw. I am just going to slice the monster base right down the middle length-wise, trim off the excess areas, and re-attach the pieces. The Black Coach itself will help anchor everything together giving it support! Will work on this this weekend and post some pics. I worry though 150mm might be too long.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 01, 2019, 02:03:15 PM
I love the Runesmith. Kitbashes like that are great fun.

125 is about right. 150 might be too long.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 01, 2019, 05:33:51 PM
Thanks!

So I have decided to go with the absolute minimum unit size for all my armies based on Ravening Hordes. I hope this balances things out better. This means I have some shuffling around to do, because I want all of my units to have command models. I know this was raised a few posts ago about letting some units go without them, but because the 7th and 8th Starter sets all came with them, I donít want some armies to have units with standards for example, and other armies not to. Even if it seems pointless, like with Empire Handgunners. And the truth is, I think the units look 1000 times better with a standard and so on than without. Especially when they are different. Really gives them character.

So looking over my Skaven, I am going to split the 2 20-model units into 4 10-model units. The only problem is that I donít have extra command models for them, but I was lucky enough to find a bits seller on eBay who supplied me with 4 Clanrats and the gear to make the 2 Standards and 2 Musicians I need. I also picked up a single Plague Bearer to make a custom Plague Priest just for kicks. Also, since I can only have one unit of Stormvermin and I am knocking them down to 10, I picked up 10 Plaguebearers on sprues. I was debating buying a box of 20 from the WFB days but I am glad I didnít. The bits seller really saved me some money.

And wherever in my lists I have 20 Skeletons or Zombies, they are going to be units of 10 now.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 02, 2019, 02:30:57 AM
Personally, I dont think its a great idea gameplay wise. Have said it a bunch. The Ravening Hordes were made before they understood the implication of the 6th edition ruleset compared to 5th. The elite armies will win almost all the time.

That said, are these armies going to go on display more than be played?
If so, do what you like! I know the photo before had boxes in a cupboard, but once they are painted if you put them on display or create some diaramas it will look great.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 02, 2019, 11:27:04 AM
Unfortunately I donít have a lot of space for displaying. I do have two curio-like cabinets in my home office that I use for displaying, but itís stuffed with a ton of other stuff. Imagine how I am with WFB and throw in a couple of dozen other interests.

And the pic of the shelves show the bottom 3 shelves I installed in a closet. There are 7 shelves above it stuffed with a ton more crap including other games to old Japanese anime model kits.

My goal is to have a shitload to do when I retire.  :icon_rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 02, 2019, 11:28:50 AM
What is an elite army anyway. If everything is assigned a point value, if a unit is worth twice that of another, then it should have half the number of troops... assuming that itís all balanced, and I was told 6th + RH really was.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 02, 2019, 11:37:32 AM
I cannot recall anyone saying that about 6th + RH, although it may be correct compared to the 5th so-called Herohammer edition. From personal experience, I can say that the 6th edition as a whole (BRB + ABs) was fairly balanced. Indeed, I would argue that the main imbalance was how most special characters were priced (i.e. prohibitively expensive!). 
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 04, 2019, 07:11:26 PM
I had some time today to work on my Black Coach base. Even though I don't plan on building anything for the Vampire Counts for a long time, I just wanted to get everything I need for when that time comes, and the base issue for the Black Coach was bothering me.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456129772_056b63c28f_z.jpg)

So would it be chopping up the 150mm by 100mm base to make a 50mm by 100mm base? Or could I just attached a cavalry base to the end of a chariot base and call it a day? Well, the cavalry base isn't quite the same width when lined up with the chariot base, and the model looks like it wouldn't fit anyway. So had to try modifying the monster base instead.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456131637_241ecef185_z.jpg)

I only have a couple of monster bases and decided to use the one in roughest shape for this in case I messed it up.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455977376_a8417ed6d0_z.jpg)

First I sliced it down the middle.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455976806_f00579141c_z.jpg)

If you don't own a band saw, I highly recommend them. I have a Miter and Table saw as well, but I use the band for a ton of things.

After going down the middle, I trimmed more off from the inside. I want to keep the original sloped edges as nice as possible so it looks like every other base I have, so that is why I am doing this.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456130142_81254137ee_z.jpg)

Here we are with the inside parts removed. Its pretty close to the chariot base in width, and at this point I figured I would just sand down rather than try trimming. Don't want to push my luck.

I glued together the halves with a mix of liquid model and super glue, and was amazed how well it bonded. I was afraid I would have to reinforce it from underneath it but really didn't want to. No one is going to see underneath it but me but it would drive me nuts. Then I filled the cracks with contour putty and sanded the line down.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455976066_617894cb4a_z.jpg)

Not an exact match in width but I was like screw it. I didn't want to sand anymore. I put a light coat of paint on it to see if there are any major imperfections but I all looks pretty good.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48455976466_1ed897bcf5_z.jpg)

Not perfect, but nothing I do is. When I add some texture and paint it prob wont even know what I did. It feels solid and once the model is glued to the base, it will give it extra support. Very happy this all worked out pretty nicely.

In other news, I picked up the plastic set of Dark Elf Executioners/Black Guard of Naggarond. They weren't on my list of things to get but I saw the set and loved the Black Guard. I think the Dark Elves are a great looking army. If they would just get rid of that stupid skull. None of my models or banners will be displaying those skulls.

And I am not going to lie, given the stuff GW just listed on their site for last chance, and how quickly it all went... I am just grabbing anything I might find interesting at this point, and I prefer plastic over metal, even though there is plenty of metal on eBay.

Finally, I got the bits for the Skaven and it turned out the seller only had one standard, and I thought of using one of the incoming Plague Bearer ones, but I discovered that my Stormvermin came with two, so I used one of those. I cut off the banner-ish like thing coming off the back of the flag and sanded it down to make it different and less imposing than the Stormvermin one. Going to trim off more of the banner as itís a lot bigger than the others. So here are my four Skaven Standard Bearers:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48456144166_ccf9d62d37_z.jpg)

I should note that the Stormvermin banner was held in the left hand so couldnít use that, since the figure has his left hand molded closed to the body to hold a shield. So I had to use a right hand holding a spear. I cut away the spear and attached the top and bottom part of the poles to the hand.

These f***ers insprired me to finish building the rest of the Skaven that came in Island of Blood. This set was supposed to be 3rd on the list and I am not even done with the first, the 6th starter, but as you can see, I am all over the place.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 08, 2019, 12:33:05 AM
Hi guys, some updates.

1) I got the Treeman model yesterday, and I was shocked how small the base is. I thought it was going on the 150mm by 100mm base, thinking it was a huge model, but it comes with a 75mm by 50mm one. So the model isn't as huge as I thought and I am excited about that. Prob still the biggest model I have for WFB.

2) I bought this lot on eBay:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48472865782_2353f636d6_z.jpg)

I was hoping to salvage some bodies for Mordheim gangs and Empire army. I hate how my Swordsman models turned out, and I am essentially using leftover parts from the older Empire sets. I actually bought the newer Swordsman/Spearmen/Halberd kit some time ago, but I didn't think the design of the models went with the figures I already had, which I prefered. Its like the older models are more medieval, and the newer ones are more renaissance. And the newer feathers... not crazy about them. I will admit there are a lot of really cool newer Empire character models, but I am just not crazy about most of the rank and file and their cockatoo feathers. That's why I sold it. But I thought if I could get enough of the newer bodies from this lot, replace their arms with the older ones, I would have something in the middle. And since the have a better WS than your average joe, they are slightly elite-ish, so they are getting slightly better gear.

So anyway I also noticed that there was a lot of crossbow men so I thought about making a crossbow unit if I could.

Plus it came with the Empire General's horse, which I was really looking for. I plan on putting the general I already made on it.

So whoever painted these was a maniac and soaked them in black spray paint and added a lot of thick paint I had a hard time stripping. This might be one of the hardest times I have had getting paint off plastic. I know I could have bought all these from GW, but the lot was only $25 so it was saving me some money. This will probably be the last time I buy models that need stripping. I am just so sick of it.

So after a stupid amount of work, here is what I salvaged:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48484392372_19ff0a1b6a_z.jpg)

Some are in pretty crappy shape and still need to be separated, but some I just wont use them. But I have enough to really build up my Mordheim gangs, and make the swordsman and crossbow units I wanted.

In addition to the original sprues that game with Mordheim, I have all this too (in better condition) from another lot I bought sometime ago:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48484237131_ebd36ae4f8_z.jpg)

Hopefully will finish assembling the swordsman this weekend and will post pics when I am done. Essentially old heads, old arms, and old shields on new bodies.

AND! While I wasn't crazy about the newer feather hats on my Empire army, THEY ARE GOING TO BE PERFECT FOR MY MARIENBURG GANG! Very excited!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 08, 2019, 12:47:07 AM
Loving the progress you're making here, well done! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 09, 2019, 10:26:38 PM
Thanks!

I said I would work on the swordsman this weekend and I lied. I just finished assembling them.

I used the best three of the new swordsman bodies for my Reikland gang, and used the remaining for my Empire swordsman. I didn't take any pics during assembly, but they looked pretty good when primed. Unfortunately I was recycling arms and heads from the swordsman I made previously, which were already primed, and I didn't want to add too many coats so I have to glue pre-primed pieces and it was a lot of fun.  :icon_rolleyes:  Btw I hate the standard bearer... he looks like a douche. I used the very last of my parts to make him awhile ago, but now that I have some of those new bits I will make a new version of him.

Here they are with my Empire General and his new horse. I just finished cleaning and repairing that horse as well. What a mess that horse was.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499003452_7b58cc7aa9_z.jpg)

The shields do hide a lot of imperfections which is great. I have to be honest, I am stoked to use all leftover bits to make these guys, but had I known how important swordsman were in the beginning I prob would have used better parts. Nevertheless I hate waste and are happy I was able to even use these old shields that came in a lot some time ago, which I had no plans for. There is a mix of heads and I really try not to use the same head twice in a 10-man unit unless its wearing a helmet.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48498830406_593e0945f3_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499333527_d4d2d792e8_z.jpg)

Now the General I am really happy with. When I first decided to get into Warhammer, the first starter set I got was 6th. I liked the options to make the captain (with the hat and with the helmet), but was bothered I didn't have the parts to make the same guy on a horse as well as on foot. My thought was, what if my general gets off his horse? At the time I didn't know the horse just improves your save. And when I asked about riders (at the time we were discussing monsters), I asked what happens to the rider if the monster is killed? You replace him with a foot soldier or something. Well, f--- that. That doesn't do it for me. I decided that all my army commanders would have the identical model on foot if I also had him on a mount. So this means tracking down additional parts and so on, like 2 High Elf Nobel sets, etc. So far its worked out nicely. For the Empire, I wanted my general based on this guy:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48498830606_a12b276a6b_n.jpg)

Who is on the side of the starter set.

So I got as many of the Empire command sprues as I could get. I also used the leftover parts to make the Captain looking guy on the horse on the back of the box, both on a mount and on foot. Don't know why I had to do this. I guess I like giving my armies a story, or having extra models for different scenarios and such. Anyway, I was really glad to get this horse, as while I liked the one that came in the starter a lot, it was also the same one I was using for my Captain and Knight Champion, and wanted something that really stood out.

So my General, on mount and on foot. Will attached the shields at some point.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499002917_385fbd1f4e_z.jpg)

I had to remove some of the saddle to get him to fit due to his coat. His coat also covers up some blemishes the guy before me made.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 10, 2019, 12:32:23 AM
I've always liked that kind of idea, congrats! :icon_cool: :::cheers::: :eusa_clap:

And the swordsmen look good too.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 10, 2019, 06:58:52 PM
Thanks!

I am moving right along. Here are the crossbowmen:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48505064026_d2e77c29fb_z.jpg)

These are the last of my Empire bits from what I had prior and then from that auction I won that I mention above. These are probably the lamest figures I have, but not bad considering they come from leftover bits. I still have some gaps to fill as you can see. I also only have so much flashy bits and I am saving those for my last unit, the Halberdiers. I figured these guys are like the least talented of the bunch and that us why they have been relegated to crossbows, so I left them as basic as I could.

I have to be honest, since my Handgunners are move or fire, and so are these, I am thinking a unit of bowmen would have been a more superior choice since they can move and fire.

On my list of things to do is finish off my Empire Knights (I actually did these first a while back, but made from a lot that someone else assembled and did a crappy job and I did the best that I could, but I ended up getting a ton of more parts in mint shape so going to to some part swapping), the Halberdiers, Great Cannon, Mortar, Wizard, and Captain, and that will be it for my Empire army. After that I plan on finishing my Orcs.

Speaking of Orcs... I bought the Rock Thrower. I didn't even need it but I got it for a good price. Like the crossbowmen, I guess its a nice to have. I am sure it will look nice on the gaming table.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 10, 2019, 10:15:18 PM
Yes! :icon_cool: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 11, 2019, 10:34:22 PM
I might have mentioned that the seller who sold me the Dwarf Gyrocopter sent my item late and threw in a couple of Dwarf sprues to make up for it. I thought I might be getting 10 dwarves, but they must be older ones since they had 4 dwarves each, and was incomplete, only giving me 6. Iíve decided to use these guys as the base for a Mordheim Dwarf treasure hunter gang.

That being said, when I organized my collection, I decided to finish off assembling my Battle of Skull Pass Set. I finished the dwarves some time ago but was having a hard time psyching myself up to finish the goblins. Well, I know I said I would concentrate on the Empire but just knocked off everything that came in that set. Welcome to my world. I have to admit I am not a crazy fan for either army, but the 7th edition set is a nice starter. Was this popular when it was released?

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 12, 2019, 12:44:40 AM
It was for many reasons.
The price was great for the number of models. Night goblins were pretty decent chaff in 7th edition IMO.
For a time, it was the only place you could get plastic dwarf miners.
Buy two boxes, one takes all the goblins, the other all the dwarves and you had a decent based of an army.

It also lended itself VERY nicely to a starter set for converting all the models into a chaos dwarf army.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 12, 2019, 12:54:24 AM
The goblins could be added to the orcs from the 6th edition set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 12, 2019, 11:06:59 AM
The goblins could be added to the orcs from the 6th edition set.

Correct. Which is actually what our friend here has done.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 12, 2019, 02:29:29 PM
Yeah that was my initial plan, but now I have enough to field 1000 point armies for both. I keep buying Orc stuff even though I don't need it.  :eusa_wall:

Speaking of which, does anyone have a couple of plastic Orc Arer boys I can buy? I only need two. They are for Mordheim.

I can't emphasize enough how much the Battle of Skull Pass influenced my approach to collecting WFB. The make up of the armies set the template for how I went out for all the others. And it wasn't until I started getting the Battalion sets, and the fact they included more points each then the armies that came in Skull Pass, did I move on to setting the army size to 1000 (even though I have obviously gone past that for some armies). But for the most part, units size, command models, etc, everything I am doing is modelling after that set so everything is consistent. And I am using everything, unlike the 8th set, where I am not using the High Elf Griffon (its just a nice to have).

And I love terrain. I know Skull Pass doesn't include much but I think it adds a nice touch and goes a long way when you are first getting started. I actually don't like starter sets that do not include terrain. Even if they are cardboard, just include something. But I am happier going with less troops and some meaningful walls or something to block LOS than to just have a bunch of models and to leave all that up to me. But I also know I am a minority in this matter.

Also, I want to be sure I am doing the right thing here. I didn't realize that my Longbeards come with the option for hand weapon/shield or great weapon. I thought the models were just great weapons and RH only has the hand weapon/shield option. But I also have the Iron Breakers, who have hand weapons/shields too. So do my warriors. The Longbeards can be build as Hammerers, and they have great weapons too, and are in RH as well. Not crazy about the Hammerer models, but they are different. A lot of Dwarf stuff looks the same. The Miners have great weapons too tho. Is that too many great weapons for the size of my army? Some of my armies don't have any great weapons and I would be giving two units in my Dwarf army those weapons.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 12, 2019, 02:49:00 PM
Yes, terrain can be a nice touch to a starter set.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 13, 2019, 02:02:14 AM
Okay so I mentioned that one of my standard bearers looked like a douche, and I wasn't crazy about some of the selection of heads for some of my crossbowmen, so I decided to try and do something about it and moved some heads around. One of the things I just did has me pretty excited.

This is a leftover Knight Champion head, with his head trimmed down, with a hat and feather I made from bits.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48524898687_469e41c05c_c.jpg)

I intended it to be for one of my standard bearers, but it turned out his hat wouldn't fit properly with the flag in the way, so I swapped out one of the swordsman heads and put that head on the standard bearer's body. I love the new swordsman. Prob should have put the head on the champ, but he's just a line guy. Second row as a matter of fact. And on one of my least favorite bodies too lol. Pretty happy things have turned out.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48524793031_133e49b153_c.jpg)

Recipe:

1) New Empire Swordsman body
2) Empire Knight Champion head
3) Old Empire hat and feather
4) Old Empire Swordsman arms
5) Old Empire Shield
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 13, 2019, 07:11:11 AM
Looks suitable! :eusa_clap: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 13, 2019, 11:20:07 PM
Guys, does this guy look stupid or too over the top?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48532133332_2245c4d950_c.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48531980086_3fd52f2fd0_c.jpg)

I am using these guys as a template:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48532133277_8794dd0b23_c.jpg)

I am trying to mimic the crossbowman with the big feathers. I took the part from the command sprue.

I am struggling to decorate this guy up a bit. He is my unit champion. I don't want to do too much as he's running a group that isn't flashy itself, but on the other hand I want him to stand out as the champion he is. I don't have a lot of options though. I do have a smaller feather piece I could use. The two feather piece for the flat hats. I could use that instead... what do you think?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 14, 2019, 08:28:29 AM
I think he looks great. The skirt / kilt and armoured legs will make him standout when painted. The head and feathers are fairly standard and interchangeable depending in the unit you are making. Considerng the rest of the crossbowmen there arenít a lot of feathers, I think its fine.

I like that you had inspiration though from the heraldry book!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 14, 2019, 10:37:32 AM
The skirt and armored feet have him looking different than the one pictured, but I like him anyway! :icon_biggrin:

I've always enjoyed the heraldry book, and it does have plenty for inspiration. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on August 14, 2019, 10:48:00 AM
Excellent! I could take a cross bolt honourably from such soldier 😺
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 14, 2019, 01:09:50 PM
Excellent! I could take a cross bolt honourably from such soldier 😺

LOL!

Okay then I will leave it. I was totally prepared this morning to read 'get rid of it'.

Yeah that book is awesome. I am using it as a reference for my Reikland and Middleheim gangs too. I can't want to show you guys what I am doing with my Reikland mercs.

I am going with Talabheim for my Empire army. Main reason I guess is that I am influenced by GW. Easy for me to get references. While I like Altdorf color scheme more, my Bretonnians are going with the blue/red scheme, and I don't want two armies being the same. I really don't like working with white or red, but its very different than all my other armies.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 17, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
Ok, remember when I said I bought those 10 Skaven Plague Monks? And I picked up that extra body bit? Well, I made my Plague Priest today.

The official GW one:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561756101_f66bb34ceb.jpg)

And mine, made from leftover bits I don't need from my Plague Monk sprues:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561898237_d0049c2170_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561755941_f42d491b27_z.jpg)

I think the GW one is supposed to have some kind of Morning Star or Flail thing, so I know my staff thing doesn't look like it, but based on the bits I had and the shape of the chain, I did the best I could. Hey, its either $26 for the GW one, or $2 for what I just did. He's just going to have to use what he's got and hope for the best.

So here is my Skaven command, debating how they are going to set fire to my 6th starter containing my Empire troops.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48561895847_0a423872bd_z.jpg)

Also, when I took the Plague Monk stuff out of my box, I set some models on the floor. One of my dogs, who loves to jump vertically crazy high, jumped up and body slammed my custom Skaven Standard Bearer I recently finished (previous page), breaking the standard from the hand, and sending the custom index finger I made off to who knows where. I did some minor surgery, and also cut down more of the banner to differentiate it from the Stormvermin one more, but I don't have it in me to make it as perfect as I had before. Dammit!

Bad dog!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 19, 2019, 11:17:42 PM
Pets and miniatures can make less than good pals. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 19, 2019, 11:46:16 PM
I'm supposed to be working on my Empire army, right?

Here's my new Goblin Big Boss.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48580120141_f7f5f3a6f8_z.jpg)

I didn't know this model existed until a few days ago, and I am happy to have him. I didn't like my previous plan. My 1000 point army is a little short on points so I thought I would get a second Big Boss, but hoped I could find one more intimidating than the one that came with the Battle of Skull Pass. Unfortunately, while cleaning off the flash I clipped off a little piece from his head which turned out to be his ear, so I had to scratchbuild another, and in attaching it, put a little too much glue around the area and loss some detail. Ugghh. I may bath him in some thinner and start over, but attaching the ear was a pain in the ass.

So my Goblin heros:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48580263537_31591508bb_z.jpg)

Now I know in posting these pics no one is going to be impressed until they are painted, but that is some time off. I prefer to have an army all assembled and primed before breaking out a brush. And these Goblins are supposed to be 4th in line in the list of things to do. The Skaven above are 6th! I just can't focus.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 20, 2019, 12:47:50 AM
Okay I spent some time trying to sand down the ear some, and put a light coat of ink around it to see what kind of details there were. I think its okay, but I can't help but think every time I look at this mini, I am going to stare right at his ear.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48580615552_a7e48ee455_z.jpg)

Someone tell me to either sink him in thinner and start over to tell me he is fine.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 20, 2019, 01:32:46 AM
I just dropped him in thinner. Heís too important of a model to have a fucked up ear. Will work on this in a couple of days.

Dammit!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 20, 2019, 02:17:01 PM
I have this vampire leading my vampire counts army:

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREoS0reCjIplaZjAqZZfqtwL4Q-ukbMOMPAJ3h8QOVNStblFRy)

Can anyone tell me what that giant spike is coming off his shoulder? I hate it. Thinking about cutting and sanding it down to something much smaller.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 20, 2019, 03:15:46 PM
I imagine it is used when he plays Blood Bowl.  Shoulder down, and full speed ahead!  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 22, 2019, 12:58:46 AM
lol it does seem far more appropriate for BloodbowlÖ

I mean, seriously, the weight of that spike should cause him to fall over. Or at least drag a foot when he walked.

I fixed my Goblin. I guess it might be hard to tell from the photos but its a huge improvement. I just used a small piece and less glue to attach it. Will sand it a bit more to shape it.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48596135471_c70ac424be_z.jpg)

Moving on!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on August 22, 2019, 10:44:34 AM
These guys are looking great!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 23, 2019, 12:54:39 PM
Thanks!

So remember my dog breaking my Skaven Standard Bearer? Well, it turns out he also landed on a Skaven foot solder, bending him over but luckily not breaking him, which was easily fixed, but also, he broke one of my Elf Sea Guard, who came broken but I fixed him previously.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48603662647_a917aa3bf3_z.jpg)

The piece from the spear... That was broken already when I opened the box, and I made a new piece by adding a piece of plastic like you see in place now, and sanded it down to take shape. It actually turned out nearly perfect. So for all the things to break, I have to do this all over again. And its time consuming, as there isn't much holding the plastic to the spear, so I have to go slow. Ugghh.

I swear, two steps forward and one step back. I just want to be done with this box set already!

Also, I have some big news I should be able to share next week. Its a special Projekt I am putting together, but I don't want to reveal anything until just about everything is in place. I imagine some of you will think its pretty cool, some stupid, and some will just be confused as to why I would bother. But I am pretty excited so stay tuned.

And no, it has nothing to do with the 6th Starter set, nor 7th and 8th, which I should be working on.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 23, 2019, 01:45:40 PM
One step at a time is a good policy. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 23, 2019, 07:28:18 PM
I have a question about Bretonnian Knight Lances.

RH says that they form into a wedge like

   []
 [] []
[] [] []

And so on. So for this reason I gave my unit 6 knights. But what if I only had 5? Would I remove the middle Knight in the third row, and leave the last two on the wings? Or line them up behind the second line like:

  []
[] []
[] []

Thanks
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 23, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
That is incorrect. The Lance formation forms up in ranks of three models wide. So, a lance of 6 Knight would be in two ranks of three models, and, as usual, casualties would be taken from the last rank.

Who is RH?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Padre on August 23, 2019, 08:44:13 PM
The Lance formation used to be like that in some early version of the rules I vaguely recall. I cannot remember which exactly as I have been playing since first edition in 1983. I suspect it was third edition.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 23, 2019, 10:08:52 PM
The Lance formation in wedge form still existed in the 5th edition, but from the 6th edition onwards, the current version was in play.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 23, 2019, 10:17:58 PM
And if you are playing the 5th edition wedge: if you have not enough knights to fill a whole rank, you place the available models on the edges, and leave gaps in the middle (the same when removing casualties).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 23, 2019, 11:15:31 PM
This is what it says in Ravening Hordes:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48608393793_3a04362f1f_z.jpg)

I do have a pdf of the 6th edition Bretonnian Army book, but the lance they describe in there is different.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 24, 2019, 02:23:15 AM
While you guys are chewing on the Bretonnian rules, here are my Orc heros.

Like my other armies where I have a mounted hero, I have a version of him on foot.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48609322978_f6cc421fa6_z.jpg)

I know you've seen this guy before. Nothing special. I am on the fence about his facemask. While I like it, I also like seeing the face...

And my Big Boss with another on foot, and a Shaman. I love the Shaman model.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48609685021_1798026a5b_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 24, 2019, 02:33:19 AM
No face mask gives a good show of their character for fantasy. :icon_cool:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 24, 2019, 07:02:56 AM
I do have a pdf of the 6th edition Bretonnian Army book, but the lance they describe in there is different.

Why, yes. When I was talking about editions, I meant the ABs. The 6th edition BRB was a major change compared to the 5th edition BRB, and Ravening Hordes was released [just after the 6th edition BRB] to provide 15 initial "Get You By" Army Lists, which replaced all 5th edition AB, up and until the respective 6th edition Army Books came out.
So, from the 6th edition Bretonnia AB (February 2004), the current system was in place - which is not surprising, as there has not been another Bretonnia AB since.   
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on August 24, 2019, 03:10:12 PM
Ravening Hordes describes the 5th edition method.

Like Fidelis mentioned, its the middle model in the back that is not placed - you still have models on the left and right.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 27, 2019, 02:52:38 AM
Ok thanks! I am going to make a lance shaped movement tray for them.

I mostly fixed my Elf's spear. Have a little shaping to do. Hope this doesn't happen a third time.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627090431_96caf12239_z.jpg)

Also...

******************************************
!!! BIG NEWS ALERT !!!
******************************************

So I came up with this idea a few weeks ago, and things went in motion pretty quickly because some great auctions came along and I pounced. But I wanted to wait till everything was in place before mentioning it.

I am building a pure Gnoblar/Hobgoblin army. Well, a 700 point one, so a small one.

I am using Ravening Hordes, but leaving out the Chaos Dwarves.

I had planned some time ago to use some leftover Gnoblars to put towards a Chaos Dwarf army, but I can't get into the Chaos Dwarves at the moment. Maybe some day. But in the meantime for some reason I like the Gnoblars and thought I would try to do something with them, as I liked reading about them in the Ogre Kingdoms army book.

So looking over the Ravening Hordes list, I didn't have a lot of options:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072946_b0421a477e_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072871_9a4e3451da.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627219017_4cff31411f.jpg)

And worse the plastic Gnoblars don't come with a lot of options. But some of the models got me thinking.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627811026_e75d0dac47_z.jpg)

Looking over the lists, I decided I could do a few things. With a third Gnoblar set, I would have a total of 72 figures. Enough for 7 10-Gnoblar units and 2 figures for bosses. But I didn't have many weapon options except for what came on the models. I then stumbled on a couple of auctions that changed everything.

First was a semi complete unit of 10 Goblin Wolf Riders, who I could use as Hobgolin Wolf Riders. I didn't get all the parts to make Goblins, but I didn't need them. All I needed was the legs, wolves, and shields.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072706_6d8ee1195d_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48626725178_9b6ebbb699_z.jpg)

But then! I found this lot of Goblin junk!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627072601_f221eb9d1d_z.jpg)

I couldn't make out all that was included but I was just hoping for enough parts for 10 bows. Turns out I have many, many more and lots of other goodies.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627219312_202f0c5e6d_z.jpg)

Some of this stuff I don't recognize either. But the point is I have some parts to make standards, musicians, extra weapons, and so on.

So the plan is this... I am going to kitbash a couple of Hobgoblin heros.

Then I am going to break up the Gnoblar models by weapons to make the following units:

1 unit of 10 Gnoblars with weapon and shield (I have enough of these guys in the Gnoblar set but will customize)
1 unit of 10 Gnoblars on Wolves with weapon and shields - Might add bows. Probably should add bows.
1 unit of 10 Gnoblars with bows (using parts above)
1 unit of 10 Gnoblars as Sneaky Gitz (using the guys with two hand weapons and some other customizing)
and then 3 units of Gnoblars with whatever is left. Basically just a hand weapon and that's probably it. Fills out the 72 models I have.

Of course, all with champs, standards, and musicians. As a matter of fact, if I can't make enough standards, I am going to use the guys who are pigging backing as standards, like they didn't have enough to make one so they did that instead.

Its a shame the lists don't offer spears... cause I got a ton of the goblin ones in that auction.

I also picked up a set of these:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48627461813_f04a03f26b_z.jpg)

to spice things up.

I will juice up a couple of positions with those random Gnoblars, or use those to make a crew for the Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower that just arrived. Not sure I want to use the Hobgoblin crew since they dont really match the Gnoblars.

To make the wolfriders, I am literally going to be cutting the Gnoblars in half and attaching the torsos to the Goblin legs, and then it will be a lot of work cutting off various arms to attach the bow arms, and then sanding everything down to look as natural as I can get it. The Gnoblars are really skinny and parts aren't a perfect match, but they are such pathetic little creatures I am not sure its going to make a big deal.

So no wizard or shaman. No elite units or tough units at that. Totally expect these guys to get steamrolled, but that is okay. I am totally into this for the theme and for the fun. And of course I can use many of these down the line with the Ogres and Chaos Dwarves. I really do not like the old Hobgoblin figures, and the Gnoblars seem to be the new versions of them, so thought this would be cool.

Also, I am excited that I have some Goblin torsos in the wolfriders set so I can add a couple of goblins to my Mordheim Orc gang. So everything worked out beautifully.

What do you guys think? Insane?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 27, 2019, 11:19:37 AM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldnít be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on August 27, 2019, 01:24:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cePMMZA.jpg)
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 27, 2019, 03:00:41 PM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldnít be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
I have multiple projects moving along started, too. :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on August 27, 2019, 08:27:15 PM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldnít be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
I have multiple projects moving along started, too. :icon_wink:
I believe there are 6 mounted crossbow men somewhere in the project list. (We have not forgotten)

@KTG17 : just having them is great. When you get overloaded on one project you can relax with another.

Edit: forgot to mention. Gnoblar army is a great idea. Would love to see that come to fruition
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 28, 2019, 02:46:25 AM
Thanks...

Well, it turns out that hoards o bits seller seemed to forget the whole reason I made an order from him in the first place: the Gnoblars! I have no idea if I will ever get them. What a shame. I really wanted a few figs in different poses.

 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:
 :icon_cry:

Dammit!!! Itís cause I told you all about my plans too soon! Should have kept it secret and instead I jinxed it.

Fire Truck!!!! - Warlord mod
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on August 28, 2019, 12:30:31 PM
Keep hunting and you'll find them.  Gnoblars are small wee folk, and good at hiding! :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on August 28, 2019, 03:48:49 PM
I am sure I have some mounted crossbow figures somewhere in the deep dark recesses of a cupboard ... ... ...

Maybe I should find them and model them, and paint them up.

#Crossbow Shaming      :engel:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Novogord on August 29, 2019, 05:37:28 AM
You know, now that I have re-read all this, I am like wtf. Totally have enough to work on that I shouldnít be spending money and time on these little fools. Oh well.
I have multiple projects moving along started, too. :icon_wink:
More then I have finished :closed-eyes:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on August 29, 2019, 11:46:05 AM
It appears I have fallen into the infamous Warhammer Fantasy Trap, which I was forewarned about. I thought I would be strong, not weak. I set a 700 point limit, then 1000, then just ditched the limit. Now I am just making up armies that donít need to be made. AND NOT GETTING THE PARTS THAT I AM ORDERING. Oh and the seller isnít even responding. Total mofo.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 02, 2019, 10:15:51 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Dwarf Hammerers. . .

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48668084462_b56ce1c0e2_z.jpg)

Interestingly enough, when I originally got the box set, it was for the Longbeards. But then I realized that the Longbeards looked like the rest of all of my dwarves (especially my Iron Breakers), and I also think it was mentioned here that GW killed them off in a later edition (correct me if I am wrong), so I started looking at doing the Hammerers. I have to be honest, their look didn't do much for me, especially their helmets, but then I realized that would set them apart from the rest so decided to do them instead. Glad I did I love their look now they are all assembled. They were a pain in the ass to assemble.

So all that is left to finish for my 1000 point army are the Iron Breakers! That is, if I ever get around to doing them.

I haven't looked into it yet... but if the Miners have great weapons, and the Hammerers have great weapons... what's the difference? Ah... WS. Cool.

Oh, and it should be noted that I took the advice and got a set of the plastic Night Goblin Fanatics. The set of three. So I think I am done buying for those guys too.

Oh part 2, I do also have that Dwarf Gyrocopter to build too.  :icon_neutral:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 03, 2019, 04:42:36 PM
I have a question about Army Battle Standards. The rules for them and magic banners refers to the unit, which I am assuming that it might join. What about if it is attacked on its own? Do the rules apply to just the single banner carrier?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 03, 2019, 04:58:40 PM
A BSB on his own is, just like any character on his own, also a unit.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 03, 2019, 05:08:29 PM
Okay thanks! I've been giving Army Standards a thought...
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 03, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
In the 6th edition, he is not as valuable as in the 8th, where he allows re-rolls of all Leadership tests. Also note that, if he takes a magic banner, he cannot take any magic items, and, in the 6th edition, he cannot take any mundane equipment either, except for L/H/FP armour and barding for his steed.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 04, 2019, 02:36:06 AM
You know what, I am going to do it. I am going to make the second hero I have for each army a Army Standard Bearer, where they are allowed (I noticed the option isn't there for Lizardmen in RH). I magically already have much of what I need from earlier purchases and what I have coming in the mail. Just a few armies I will have to do some shopping for.

ALSO! I was looking over my stuff for Mordheim, and the great thing about Mordheim is that I can pull models from my WFB collection to add to my gangs. I want my initial 8-10 gang members to be purely 'Mordheim', but imagine I can borrow the Troll from Skull Pass for my Orc gang, or one of my Rat Ogres from Island of Blood for the Skaven, etc etc. Well, one thing I realized is that I wish I had more Zombies for my Undead gang. The box set only comes with 5.

However, looking over the sprues (from Mordheim and my Vampire Counts Battalion) I noticed I have 8 heads on each of the 5 total Zombie sprues that I have for a total of 40, and more arms than I need. Well, you remember all those loose figs I got awhile back that I got for my Swordsmen and Crossbowmen? Well I have a ton of bodies left from that and others in crappy shape (I only used the best ones for my Empire army and Mordheim Reikland and Marienburg gangs). So with 25 legs and torsos from the Zombie sprues, I am going to use the leftover various Empire bodies to make 15 more Zombies, for a total of 40, so that I will have a total of 10 Zombies for Mordheim, and now 30 for the Vampire Counts! I love when a plan comes together.

Amazing how shit works out sometimes. Really, really trying to find a use for everything as well as save here and there so I can buy a few of the more pricer stuff.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 04, 2019, 07:06:11 AM
Lizardmen can take a BSB - and he is much better than the normal one. You can upgrade a Slann Mage Lord or Priest to BSB, who can take a magic banner in addition to other magic items, and he can be the General as well.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 04, 2019, 01:20:12 PM
Oh wow you are right, the only problem is I am not building big enough armies to field Lords. Strange every army has battle standards for heros but the Lizardmen. I wonder why this is.

So I guess no BSB for my Lizardmen. I am not going to 2000 points!!!








!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 04, 2019, 01:57:56 PM
Look at what I just found:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48677417317_7abe2e0b2e_z.jpg)

Remember that base I made for the Black Coach? Well, we were debating the size for it and it looks like GW mounted theirs on a pretty wide one. It looks like a custom one based on the height of the sides, compared to the other bases around it. I am guessing its about 75mm wide? This is from the 6th edition army book btw. And btw, I did see a list of base sizes for models and the official base was a chariot base which we all know wouldn't be big enough.

Not that I am going to redo mine, but had I seen this before, I prob would have made mine wider. And lately the size of what I made is bothering me, since it came out a little wider than the official chariot base, so I thought I would just run it down through the saw again which would prob be enough. Guess it doesnt really matter.

Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 06, 2019, 03:08:31 AM
Okay super excited to share this.

So as I am collecting for WFB, I am also collecting for Mordheim. I am trying to make warbands for all those listed in the (2nd edition?) rulebook (including the Dwarves and Orcs). So as I am buying up models for WFB, I am keeping an eye out for what I might be able to use for a warband. For example, all those second hand Empire models I got, some of them are going towards a Reikland Warband.

Well, once I got that haul of Goblin junk and Wolf Riders, I decided to add Goblins to my Orc warband. Its taken me a bit to get the right parts together for the Orcs though, and after getting the Warboss/Battle Standard kit, I am using some of those parts for my warband. I just love the chest piece with the wolf skin. Prob would look cool as a standard bearer, but since I want to make an identical foot/mounted bearer, and I only have one of these torsos, I think it makes for an amazing gang leader.

So anyway, here are the parts I am using for my warband so far. I was going to just use the shields that came in the Orcs regiment box, but that would not only have left me short, but also kinda repetitive, and I really want my warband figs to be different from my army guys, so I picked up some Savage Orc shields which I love.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48686446767_7bc617d61f_z.jpg)

So at the top is the Big Boss. To the upper left my Big Un, who I am still deciding on what to arm with. He's going to be the psychopath of the group, so I want the model to show that. I will prob give him one of those Orc face plate pieces. Then two boys with swords and shields, and 2 arrer boys. I know these are small groups, but I don't want to make a huge warband and I am still going to include 2-3 goblins (don't know how I will equip them yet - prob spears and shields).

I am planning on adding a Shaman, but not sure which model to use. I don't want to use the one from my WFB Orc army, even if I love the figure. It just doesn't look warband-ish enough for me.

I am some ways from assembling these and painting them. Kinda just getting all the parts I need as I go.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 06, 2019, 01:20:53 PM
I should add too that I am basing my warbands off the template of GW's pre-packaged warbands like the Witch Hunters and so on, where there is a leader, a champ or two, then a unit of 3 guys, and another with 2, with some exceptions like the Skaven and Undead. And of course, the 500 point starting limit. Marienburg will be a little bigger as they get to start out at 600.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 07, 2019, 12:39:43 AM
Guys I need help. I got my Night Goblin Fanatics today. Love them. Don't know how I put getting these guys off. I guess it was getting them for $9 that did it for me. Anyway, I got them on the sprue without the instructions, and aren't sure how to assemble them.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48691074272_525cc4bf53.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690906461_a89959bf20.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48690566643_0c02f660a2_n.jpg)

You see how some of the models have a second ball coming off their side? Well one of the models has it attached to the model already, and its obviously attached to the greater chain. However the others don't have an obvious spot on the model to place them. Looking at the demo models, one looks like it comes off his belt, but I am not sure. Has anyone put these together, or know what the second ball is for? The model on the actual box doesn't have one, so I am not sure if this is an option, or each model should have two of them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 07, 2019, 03:07:57 AM
Maybe the pictures on the box might help?  Oh, and glue. :icon_wink: :icon_mrgreen:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 07, 2019, 04:19:32 AM
Well the pics donít show whatís going on on the back of the model.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 09, 2019, 10:49:07 AM
I had 2 boxes of them, and never put a second ball at the waist - didnít even realise it was a thing! :blush:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 09, 2019, 12:28:47 PM
I had 2 boxes of them, and never put a second ball at the waist - didnít even realise it was a thing! :blush:

Lol - the same 👆 never realized until reading your thread. I think that may be pretty cool.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 09, 2019, 01:23:34 PM
I am going to call GW later today and ask them.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 09, 2019, 02:20:29 PM
By the way, I like what you're doing with the Orc Warband.  What kit or where did the shields come from?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 09, 2019, 02:58:46 PM
The auction said 'Savage Orcs Boar Boyz'

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WARHAMMER-BIN-BITS-SAVAGE-ORC-BOAR-BOYZ-5x-SHIELDS/352768463151?epid=1685951954&hash=item5222a3912f:g:sscAAOSwTBtdZCM-

they are still available!
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 09, 2019, 03:34:07 PM
Okay I called GW USA. Worthless.

So I called GW UK, and while they do not have the instructions for the older kits, he understood what I was asking and called it a counterweight that attaches to his belt. So just have to find a place on the model where I like it.

Interestingly enough, the old models didn't have this, nor do the new ones, so I prob could get away with not adding it, because its kind of a fragile looking link that I will no doubt break some day.

I just found this pic online btw.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/3549/3796048539_3463e1ddeb.jpg)

There is a model with one already attached, but it goes under his arm and it wasn't obvious what it was attached to (the belt or chain to the big ball).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Artobans Ghost on September 09, 2019, 07:21:45 PM
I wonder what the story is on these in between addition?
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 11, 2019, 12:53:59 AM
No idea... I just got here.

Okay I have a huge update. And I am a little ashamed. And embarrassed to admit that you guys knew this was coming, I said it wouldn't, and I folded.

So some history here...

So you know this guy? He came in the Island of Blood set:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48713849088_e8e9ab9f39_z.jpg)

Well, I figured my games would never be big enough to use him, but I figured I would keep him, and base my Elf General on him, so I bought a couple of Noble sets and came up with this:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48713848438_2dfb6f7bcf_z.jpg)

And over time, it was fine. But then looking it over one night, I wasn't crazy about the helmets being different. I thought that maybe if I had reversed the wings on the helmet, it might look more like the guy on the Griffon, and even went shopping for new bits to make new heads. The problem was they were kinda pricey, and I thought, "Why not just buy a couple of the actual guy on the Griffon and just use those heads and be done with it?" and that is what I did.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714179236_4ac007301f_z.jpg)

So I got two heads and will be replacing my General's heads with these. And the other noble will be the Army Standard Bearer as it was originally intended, as I have decided to go that route for all the armies.

So then, I was left with two Griffons. I checked RH to see who else could use one, and it turns out the Empire Lords can use them too. So remember this guy?

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48499002917_385fbd1f4e_z.jpg)

Well, using some leftover bits I made:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714178941_379f505164_z.jpg)

I have to be honest, the skirt gave me a lot of problems, and I am not happy with it. It would probably be good enough, but more on that in a minute. I did some good things, like was able to use the reins and even clipped the top part from the Elf fist and added it to the Empire one.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714178761_98200c6f7e_z.jpg)

However, around this time I got this guy:

(https://miniset.net/files/set/gw-99120202011-0.jpg)

Mainly for parts for Mordheim, as I was dying to use the hat for my Marienburg captain. But I was going to use the other parts too. Like the standard for my Army Standard. But I was amazed how much I liked the parts. I said previously I wasn't crazy about the newer look of the Empire versus the more vintage stuff. But the look was growing on me, and I was irritated that I sold the one Empire State Troops box that I had.

Well, like 5min after this I find this on Ebay:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714312697_617e955af8_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714146761_6abbeaceba_z.jpg)

Well I had no idea this set was even released, and if I could get it for a good price, I would be able to replace my Spearmen, Handgunners, and the Halberdiers I was working on. I actually like my Swordsmen, so I didn't think I would need to redo those (maybe do some head swapping). I do prefer the newer General over the older one I have been working on, and I just prefer everyone has the same look. The newer look has won me over, and to be honest, in the short time I have been doing this, I have realized that the vintage Empire stuff isn't aging that well as I work on the newer models from other armies. And I imagine when I get to the Dark Elves or Bretonnians it will get even worse.

But if I didn't win the set, this would be put to bed and I would just keep what I have.

Well, I won it.
























And I decided to go shopping.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714146681_d0a82c194c_z.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48714146666_78101c75f5_z.jpg)

I don't even need the two above but the models rock and I just figured get them while I can. I am actually excited to get them.

And I got another Empire General set and some extra bits that I set aside for Mordheim. AND, since I have that extra Griffon (as I bought 2), I am going to do the same thing I did with my older General with the newer General by mounting him on the last Griffon. And since there is no skirt I am hoping it turns out better. Will post pics then done.

So its been a crazy week.

And this also means, that I have a Lord for the Empire and High Elf armies, and the Orc Wyvern is starting to look cool... I've always loved the Dark Elf Black Dragon, Grey Seers on Screaming Bells, or even the newer Lizardmen Slaan. I don't know, we'll see. I don't even know how powerful Griffons are yet, and if they stack up against some of these bigger models.

AND I DO NOT WANT TO GO TO 2000 POINTS!

Anyway, I am sure some of you are happy.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 11, 2019, 01:39:47 AM
Welcome to the addiction that is Warhammer-Empire! :icon_mrgreen: :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 11, 2019, 02:11:19 AM
2000 points for 6th edition is optimum.
But unit sizes need to be thought about properly :evil:

I am very happy you have greatswords. One of my favourite units.
And helblaster will add a lot of flavour to your empire army too. And hitting power. 6th ed helblaster was great.
I very much approve of this development!

You can easily bulk points out by taking a lord on big mount. This applies to all armies really.
If you have those big, beautiful models, its only a matter of time before you want to field them.

Remember, orcs and goblins can combine to make a 2000 pt army easy enough...
But you shouldnít listen to us, we are the devil whispering in your ear! :evil:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 11, 2019, 01:39:55 PM
2000 points for 6th edition is optimum.
But unit sizes need to be thought about properly :evil:

Yeah I know, but even though I am collecting extra figs, I think its more for the hobby sake and not game play. I still intend to keep games small in the 700-1000 point range.

Quote
I very much approve of this development!

Thanks, I figured you guys were mostly using the newer models at this point. I probably should have to, but I was trying to keep costs down and use the extra money for other things. I guess I bought all of those extra things now. I can't really upgrade the other armies, I have the more recent versions of all those battalion sets.

Now what do I do with all those older models? try to sell them? Incorporate them? Use them as a second Imperial Army? Maybe a rival city? I don't know. I HATE HAVING TOO MUCH STUFF.

Quote
Remember, orcs and goblins can combine to make a 2000 pt army easy enough...

Yeah I always imagined if I wanted to play larger games, I would just ally them up. Like 1000 Empire + 1000 Dwarf + 1000 High Elf vs 1000 Chaos Warriors + 1000 Beastmen + 1000 Daemons or something like that.

I really are more into variety than I am into bulk. That's mostly the reason I am keeping unit sizes small.
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: GamesPoet on September 11, 2019, 02:01:29 PM
By the way ... that 30 unit box set ... I picked one of those up a little ways back that I found on back shelf of a local hobby shop, what  a steal that was.  Good you found one of them too, and excellent little pick up, gives enough for a small block and a detachment, well done. :::cheers:::
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: KTG17 on September 11, 2019, 02:11:26 PM
Yeah its great as it easily replaces what I have all in one go. It was just a matter of price. Buying those sets individually seems to run about $30 each these days, which I wasn't crazy about paying. I see it originally retailed for $45 based on the sticker on the box, and I paid a little over $60 with shipping. So 3 units for $20 each. I can live with that.

Had I not won it, I wouldn't have gotten the Greatswords nor the Volley gun. Its just once I was on board with the new style I was like might as well get it all, and I agree the Greatswords might be the best Empire models they made. A lot of character in those figures I am looking forward to building them.

I am curious though, their stats aren't great... and don't the great weapons mean you strike last? And with only light armor, don't these guys take huge casualties before they can hit back? Sorry buying models faster than I am learning the rules...  :icon_biggrin:
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Fidelis von Sigmaringen on September 11, 2019, 03:48:09 PM
Yes, the Greatswords having a great weapon always strike last - except on the charge. Of course, in RH they only cost 5 points (6 with LA). In the later ABs , they have better stats, FPA, and are Stubborn - but cost 10-12 points (depending on the edition).
Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Midaski on September 11, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
I don't think there is any problem with mixing models.

If you are talking Ed.6 plastics against the newer Empire boxes a lot of us have both. They may not look too good in the same regiment, but if you keep the styles together in units then it is easily plausible that different states have different uniforms, and indeed budgets to equip troops.

Puffy sleeves come in all shapes and sizes.  :engel:

The actual weaponry - particularly shooting items like crossbows and handguns - are more noticeable, but again it's like a poorer province has Lee Enfield 303s and the richer ones can afford AK47s  :closed-eyes:

The Empire is all about diversity.
Stick 20 men in a line and you will have heights from 6'3 down to 5'6" and weights from 140lbs up to 210lbs.



Title: Re: Hi from a newbie and my deep dive into WFB. . .
Post by: Warlord on September 12, 2019, 04:38:06 AM
In your previous empire unit line up, you had very little hitting power. These guys on the charge will hit like a ton of bricks. They will add tactical flavour to your previously bland-ish empire line up.
I am less upset with your 10 model units if you have some greatswords in the army  :-)