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I came across this article on a legal blog I follow:
 3D Print Wars:  Episode II http://goo.gl/irJMd

Its a good summary of the law in this matter with the standard lawyer answer: "It depends!"

The Count's Tavern / Mixed Blessings (Yea!/Boo!)
« on: December 30, 2011, 09:17:54 PM »
Well we have a thread for Happy Thoughts and a thread for Unhappy Thoughts, but we don't have a thread for instances where there's both an upside and a downside. Say, for example, you're getting a new car (Yea!) but that's only because you totaled your old one (Boo!), or something along those lines. Have at it. I hope this fills a gap.

So the subject line says it all. It's actually a 9k game: me and a TK player at 4,500 each against a WOC at 9K.

Any suggestion as to how my Wizard Lord and 2 Lvl 2's should be kitted out and what Lores I should use?

(Without going in to too much detail: in addition to those characters, I also have 3 WPs, 1 AL, 2 Engineers, and a Templar GM. For units I'm taking 2X40 Swordsmen, 1X30 Flaggies, 2X10man Xbows, 2X10 Handgunners, 12 IC Knights, 2x6Outriders, 2xcannon, 2xmortars, and to get to the points total my Stank and my newly put together Giant.)

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

The Count's Tavern / Buckeye Battles July 8th – 10th, 2011
« on: June 09, 2011, 07:10:16 PM »
Anyone attending? http://www.buckeyebattles.com/
An Indy GT Warhammer 8th Edition Fantasy Tournament 2200pt , 5 rounds

I'll be there with my badly assembled Empire army.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Poll: Unique Mage Lord
« on: May 19, 2009, 05:21:33 PM »
From this thread:

Crinlof the Ancient by mastercats

Crinlof Is just about older than dirt. Even many of the older High Elves make jokes that they remember seeing him when they were born. While not being quite nearly that old it is still remarkable he lives. He has studied almsot all there is to study.He is an accomplished grey wizard. Many general ask him for advise against there next enemy, some times they will get amazing advise that would turn a victory into a loss. Other times they sit there for hour on end listen to a story about how pig mature in hopes there will be good information with in. They even say he knew Sigmar personally. They ask him themselves how old he is but then they'd get a store and most would die off before the story would is so they just make wild assumtions to his age. His fast is winkled, well that's note entirely true. To give credit to the old man his face isn't wrinkles its just one big wrinkle. They safe that his wrinkle is so big that it, itself has wrinkles beyond compare. They say the old mans death may end up being an implosion originating from the fault of the wrinkle. Though they do say alot of things his abilitys to push an army forward are unmatched.

Crinlof the ancient:(light mage lord)
Lord Choice

M2 WS1 BS1 S1 T1 W3 I2 A1 LD9

Equipment: A Two-handed Shoe

Special Rule:
Knowledge Beyond years:Crinlof knows all light lore spells and gains +1 for casting any spell in the lore of light.
Ramblings of An Oldman: With so much knowledge and a mind rottign with age he rambles on constantly and not even he knows what hes saying at times. These in these ramblings he often mutter spells with out even knowing it. At the start of every magic phase pick a lore of magic from the warhammer rule book. Then randomly select a spell form that lore on a D6. If you roll anythingo ther than the 6th spell in the lore than that spell goes off as a bond spell atg power level 4. If you roll the 6th spell then take a stupidity test. If this test is failed Crinlof takes an automatic wound.
To old to lead Alone: He is just to old to think straight some times. So no man will fightu nder him unless there is another "sub" general in case he starts telling storys. If Crinlof is the only lord choice the army must also contain a Battle Standard Bearer.


M9 WS7 BS4 S4 T4 W5 I5 A3 LD10

Special rules:
Constand guardian: A shield in  light shield protect both rider and mount. all attacks and test(besides leader ship) are directed towards the mount,  and gives a ward save. This Ward saves based on the type of attack. Aginst magic it grants a 2+, against shooting it grants a 3+, in combat in grants a 4+, in a challenge it grants a 5+.

I have no idea what the cost would be but i would think about 300-400 pt. I have no idea but i suppose he'd be worth that with a pretty cool mount and insane magic ability.

Abdul Al-Harash by Marius

Noone knew who Abdul was before he came to Altdorf, or specifically where he was from, but everyone remembered his arrival. One midsummer's day, A brilliant carpet flew over the heads of the citizens of the Empire's capital. He wasted no time, and flew straight to the Heirophant headquaters. THere, he gracefully stepped off his carpet and walked right in, for he was so skilled at manipulating light, that Abdul had bent light around himself, so as to become invisible to the guards. Inside the building, Abdul demanded he be admitted into the college. Everyone was so impressed with his power, that they immediately accepted him, so as to bring knowledge and wealth to their school. Once fully instated, Abdul told his fellow heirophants his story. He grew up in Araby, and found an amazing talent for influencing light. He became the sultan's head magician, but he was not happy with this position. He wanted to go to the Empire to the famous colleges of magic to truly prove himself. To do so, he made himself a magic carpet. Because the winds of magic cannot push one not schooled in all eight lores of magic, Abdul had challenged seven different wizard, one skilled in each other lore. He defeated each of these wizards and wove their very souls into his carpet. He then fashioned himself a wand out of an old, shriveled and white tree which let him focus all his power into one point. Thus prepared, Abdul flew his carpet to the Empire to become a member of the collages of magic, and hopefully overthrow Gelt in a magicians duel to become supreme patriarch.

Abdul Al-Harash

M4 WS3 BS3 S4 T3 W4 I4 A2 LD9

Scimitar (hand weapon)
Wand of Al-Harash

Magic Carpet

Special rules:

Learned:          Abdul can choose two spells from the lore of light instead of rolling for them (these are all the spells that he can take)
Duel veteran:   Abdul has defeated many wizard in duels and so provides 3 dispel dice as well as having magic resist 2
Abdul in a Lvl 4 heirophant

Wand of Al-Harash
Abdul rerolls his first miscast

Magic Carpet
M0 WS0 BS0 S0 T2 W7 I0 Ld8

Souls of mages:             Since the souls of wizards reside in the carpet, the carpet may cast the No.1 spell of any lore except light at power level 5
Mystifying patterns:       All enemy units within 6 inches of the carpet are mystified by its swirling patterns and so have Initiative 1 and all units shooting at Abdul have a -3 to hit

Points cost:


(The carpet has seven wounds because of the souls inside it so don't ask)

Gort Básaloer by commandant
Gort Básaloer was born in a small village in the Border Prince Kingdom of Dunvay somewhere in close to the Axe Bite pass.   His father was a mage of some small power who had several times been of use to the self proclaimed King of Dunvay.   Gort followed his father's trade, studying with his father and was forced to flee with his father when the city of Dunvay, if the collected mess of a houses and inns could be caused a city, was sacked by a force of witch hunters searching for mages that were not working with the colleges of magic at Aldorf.
Gort's father was wounded in a skirmish with the witch hunters in the Axe Bite pass and then killed by orcs and this experience left the sixteen year old Gort scarred for life and deeply distrustful of humans.   For years, despite the searching of witch hunters, Gort disappeared from human society.   Where he went nobody was sure but he returned at the temple of the witch hunters in Aldorf, called each of them out and killed them all, soaking the floor in blood.   Dressed in his blood soaked armour and still carrying his bloody sword in one hand and a staff in the other he marched before a Arch Lector of Sigmar and he declared that these men were tratiors to Sigmar.
The Arch Lector was none to pleased and he ordered that none of the faithful consort with Gort.   However he ordered the death of the powerful mage.   But when the men followed Gort they all died horrible deaths.   Gort proclaimed that his powerful artifacts, the Armour of Vilas, the Sword of the Daybreak and the Staff of the Unknown would give him the ability to destroy any that the Arch Lector sent after him.

Gort Básaleor is a level 4 Death Wizard
Gort must be played as shown

4   4   4  4  4 5  3 1  8

Armour of Vilas, Sword of the Daybreak, Staff of the Unknown, Bodyguard, warhorse

Special rules:
Added Skill, Crawling Death, Hatrid of Sigmar, Wandering Soul, Attached to Bodyguard

Added Skill:
Gort Básaleor knows every spell in the Death List

Crawling Death:
When Gort casts it Crawling Death dose 5D6 S1 wounds instead of three (hope I have the name of this spell right)

Hatrid of Sigmar.
Because of the death of his father Gort hates Sigmar and so will not fight in the same army as any Sigmarite.   A army containing Gort man not contain any priests of Sigmar.

Wandering Soul
Because of his years in the wilderness Gort dose not trust humans enough to trust them.   Gort can never be your armies general.   Nor can he ever join a unit in your army.   He may never benefit from banners the army carries.

Attached to Bodyguard
Because of the deep loyality and trust between Gort and his bodyguard it effects him badily should one die.   Gort must take a leadership test for everry member of his bodyguard that dies.   However he may add 1 point for ever two remaining members of his body guard to his leadership.

Armour of Vilas
The Armour of Vilas gives Gort a 4+ Armour Save from mundane weapons and a 1+ AS from magical weapons.   The Armour of Vilas gives Gort a 5+ Ward save from mundane weapons and a 3+ WS from magical weapons

Sword of the Breaking Dawn
The Sword of the Breaking Dawn gives Gort +1 attack and +2 Stength

The Staff of the Unknown
The Staff of the Unknown gives Gort +1 to cast.   It also allows him to reroll his roll on the miscast chart and ignore his first miscast.   In the case of the first miscast the spell is not cast but Gort need not roll on the miscast chart.   Should a foe's wizard miscast the Staff of the Unknown allows Gort to roll on the miscast chart and add that result to the result of the miscast of the foe's wizard if he desires.

Body Guard
Gort has built a loyal bodyguard which are the only people he trusts.   To represent this he must be fielded in a unit of 5 riders with the following stats.   The bodyguard may have a champion, banner and musician

Bodyguard                    M4 WS4 BS4 S4 T4 I3 A1 L8
Bodyguard Champion      M4 WS4 BS5 S4 T4 I3 A1 L8

Equiment: Brace of pistols, Spear, hand weapon, light armour, horse

Special Rules: Fast Cavalry

900 if bodyguard has full Command
870 if it dose not

Jade Enchantress, Jacinthe Silverleaf by Folken
As the 3rd child in a total of 12 with both an older brother and sister, the nobility of her Schilderheim family was not going to be a meal ticket for young Jacinthe.  While waiting to find what destiny had planned for her, Jacinthe found herself in the employ of a young Celestial mage as clerk.  
While her work was excellent, Jacinthe held some attraction that only one sensitive to the winds of magic could understand.  After years of this, they consummated a new relationship.  One day, after a session of lovemaking, while walking the yards he found a grounds keeper working vigorously at a sudden new patch of vines rising high up the towers of the building.  A conversation ensued, and the fact was revealed that there were these spontaneous growths at dates seeming at random to almost anyone else.  He guided Jacinthe to try and call the wind Ghyran to do basic things such as reviving a weakened plant. Nine months later, she gave birth to two fine daughters and a son.  Once cleaned up, her lover had a frank talk and learned that her father also was the 3rd of many children.  There was little doubt that the gift of life was with this woman's and her line.  
Two girls and her fine clothes were soon sent back home to the care of her family while the third child she had strapped to her back and took on the humble trappings of a Jade Acolyte.  A new world opened up to hear gaining the deep harmony with the land and all life.  The far reaches of her training was not beyond the scrying of a certain Heaven's Mage and their relationship persisted leading to a marriage with 8 children in tow.  The direct contact with life made her an astute student if prone to disruptions of the study.  At 50 years of age, there seems no sign that her fertility will abate.  With the current Patriarch missing, the Jade Order has elected Jacinthe to stand in as the leader of their college.  When there is call, she is always prepared to help destroy the threat to her beloved land and brood.

M 4 WS 3 BS 3 S 3 T 4 W 3 I 3 A 1 Ld 8
Cost: 225
Level 4 Wizard. Must select spells from the Lore of Life
Hand weapon.  May purchase a warhorse(15) which may have barding(6)
Special Rules:
Interim Matriarch, Lots of Kiddies

Interim Matriarch:
As the temporary head of the Jade Order, Jacinthe has access to additional magical resources.  She is permitted to take 2 arcane items other then power stones and dispel scrolls though the total magical items are still restricted to 100 points.  In addition to the standard arcane items, Jacinthe may select from the following(Note: these count to the points limit of magical items):
  • Tome of the Coil of Life: 30 pts(Arcane)
    Transcribed by the original texts of the first Jade Patriarch, this book details the incantations use to harness the Wind Ghyran.
    Jacinthe knows all standard spells from the Lore of Life
  • Staff of Aalderk : 25 pts(Arcane)
    A staff of pure, white birch once wielded by one of the most famous of Jade Wizards, Aalderk Springwater, who legends say revived a hundred men with a single spell.  The staff imparts a bit of the knowledge of its former master.
    Jacinthe knows Aalderk's Vigor:
    Vigor counts as a spell from the Lore of Life.  It must target a any friendly unit within 12" of the caster.  It is cast successfully on an 8+.   That unit has Regeneration until the start of the next friendly magic phase.
  • Carafe of the Sacred Pool: 25 pts (Arcane)
    A container of pure crystal filled with waters from the hidden pools of the Jade Order and bathed in sunlight for a year, these waters lend clarity to the mind a Life Mage.
    Jacinthe may cast each Lore of Life spell more then once per magic phase.

Lots of Kiddies:

At the start of battle roll a d6:
On a 1-2 Jacinthe is pregnant: She suffers a -1 movement penalty but this allows a greater harmony with the Wind Ghyran,  the DC of all lore of life spells are -1 for Jacinthe for the battle.
On a 3-4 Jacinthe has a bunch of rambunctious, noisy children with her.  Jacinthe is subject to Stupidity for the battle. In close combat she gains d6 WS1 S2 attacks.
On a 5-6 the kids are at home, no special effects.

Maddie Mayhem from Middenheim by shavixmir
Some say Maddie was born into a sect of believers of the old faith and raised by druids and witches doing naked rituals in the woods near Middenheim.
Some say Maddie fell victim to the evil Empress Magtha Atcher and was boiled in a cursed cauldron on the chaos wastes near Kislev.
Her history is shady at best, dubious at worst and the truth is probably somewhere half between.
However, nobody doubts her heart for the cause. Her stunning bravery in the face of evil. Her regard for life, her, her… well, she is also stunningly beautiful. Especially considering she’s a witch…

Cost: 200 points

M 4 WS 2 BS 3 S 3 T 3 W 3 I 3 A 1 Ld 8
Magic: lvl 3
Druidic witch

- Broom
- Sexy black clothing and a sensual pointed hat.
- The wooden wand of wonderous wind
- Maddie can choose up to 100 points from the magic items table.

Special rules:
Dubious, druidic witch, druidic following

M * WS 0 BS 0 S 0 T 3 W 2 I 0 A 0 Ld 0
The broom counts as a flying steed.
The broom gives Maddie and itself a 4+ ward save

The wooden wand of wonderous wind:
Once per magic phase Maddie can use the wand (bound item 4+) on any 1 unit (no line of sight required) which has wood in the ammunition. Friendly unit’s range is increased by 2D6 inches. Enemy units range is decreased by 2D6 inches until Maddie’s next magic phase (note: this also increases / decreases short / long range).

Maddie cannot be an army’s general.
She can only join druidic units (if so, she no longer counts as flying).
Any army Maddie is in cannot be joined by warrior priests, arch lectors or flaggallants.

Druidic witch:
Maddie must choose spells from the druidic magic table:

1 Spikey hedge of cover 4+
Lasts until the caster’s next magic phase
A magic hedge 1 inch deep and 6 inches long appears within 18 inch of the caster. It counts as hard cover. Any unit charging through it receives D6 S4 wounds.

2 Wooden resolve 5+
Can be cast on any unit within 18 inches of the caster. For the remainder of the turn, if it’s a friendly unit using wooden weapons (spears, bows, lances, etc.) it receives +1 WS, +1 BS and +1 S. If it’s cast on an enemy unit, the unit receives -1 WS, -1 BS and -1 S.

3  The swamp 7+
Remains in play
Can be cast on enemy unit within 18 inches of the caster
The unit is cursed by swampy ground. Movement is halved and the unit cannot march.

4  The soothing odour of love 9+
All units (enemy and friendly alike) on the battlefield lose frenzy and hatred until the caster’s next magic phase.

5  The mirror shield 10+
Can be cast on unit within 18 inches of caster. Lasts until the caster’s next magic  phase
Half of the wounds caused by the attacking unit are mirrored back to the unit itself (so, half the wounds… rounded down… are done to the enemy unit instead of the friendly unit).

6 The well of life 12+
Can be cast on friendly unit within 18 inches of caster.
The unit loses 2D6 less wounds in the next turn of combat or shooting.

Druidic following:
Scouts become a core choice (as many units as player wants) and are 5 – 10 in size
Each scouting unit can choose any of the following options (although no unit can stack an attribute, such as magic resistance):

Forest dwellers
+1 point per model
Models move through forests without movement penalties

+1 point per model
Models shooting at unit suffer a -1 BS

Long bows
+1 point per model
Models have longbows

+3 points per model
Models use poison (on bows and hand weapons) and have magic resistance (1)

Flee and rally
+3 points per model
Models flee an extra D6 from combat and automatically rally.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Poll: Unique Mage Heroes
« on: May 11, 2009, 07:25:29 AM »
From this thread:

MagicJuggler's Celestial Mage, Nicol Galeli:
Da Full Metal Alchemist and Brother (Joke)

Edmund Elron was a brilliant Alchemist who had a laboratory explosion. Due to a Member of the Amethyst Order visiting at the time to drop off some TPS reports, the explosion also caused some magical juju to transplant the soul Eldrond's brother Arturus into a suit of full-plate armor. So now he and his animated brother go foward, slaying Chaos in the name of the State.

WS 3, BS 3, S 4, T 3, W 1, I 4, Ld 7, Sv 5+ ward, Atk 1.
Equipment: Edmund has a metallic arm which accounts for his strength, as well as serving as a conduit for Metal magic. He receives +1 to cast all spells from the Lore of Metal.
Wizard: Edmund is a Level 2 Wizard.

Mount: Arturus:
Move 6, WS 4, BS 0, S 5, T5, W 3, I 1, Ld 4, Sv 1+, Atk 4
Equipment: Arturus *IS* a giant suit of full-plate armor. Due to being a soul and not just a squishy human inside, he has the improved statline, and a 1+ save.
Special Rules: Monstrous Mount, Cause Fear
Little Brother: Arturus automatically rolls a Whimper result should Edmund ever be killed.
Alchemist: Arturus is a level 1 Wizard who may use spells from the Lore of Metal.

Total points: 300

Buddha90's Celestial Mage, Adrian Donner
In his childhood Adrian Donner was struck by lightning more frequently than the avarage citizen of the empire. In fact people around him began betting on stormy days. Several doctors and wise men were summoned to examine the boy, one was even killed when a lightning struck Adrian while the doctor was feeling Adrian's heartbeat. Because of his rather dangerous reputation, Adrian had a lonely childhood. He would sit alone in the city library studying until being thrown out because of an upcoming storm. Even his own family kicked him out when their stables burned down, because of Adrian. He began to wander the countryside with only some stolen books from the library. One night he came across a small village that was under attack from a band of norse chaos marauders. Adrian, being a good man of heart, ran into the village and shouted at the marauders. Thunder and lightning appeared in the sky and before the marauders could attack Adrian they were nothing but ashes on the ground.
This episode was reported to the local castle and before long, Adrian was an apprintice in the art of magic. It is said that Adrian is the most naturally gifted Celestial Wizard ever, only his young age is keeping him from being the most powerful.

Adrian Donner, 2nd level Celestial Wizard

M4 WS3 BS1 S3 T3 W2 I3 A1 LD7

Cost: 210 Points??? I have NO idea is this ia acceptable..

Hand weapon, Leiter Armour.

Adrian may not take any magic items, nor may he have any additional equipment.

Special Rules:
Leiter Armour
Adrian have had a special armour crafted for the sole purpose of leading the lightning. This armour counts as a light armour, eventhough it is made totally of metal. Because of the armour the player controlling Adrian may choose to absorb the spells Forked Lightning and Uranon's Thunderbolt, meaning that they will hit Adrian, and the unit he may have joined. Additionally Adrian has magic resistance (1) against spells from the lore of heavens

Adrian have read almost any book ever written in the empire, and those written beyond. Because of this he knows 1 more spell than a normal level 2 wizard, meaning he knows 3 spells.

Stored Lightning
Adrian has learned to store the lightning that hit him ever so often, this has resulted in a several effects.
- In any friendly magic phase he may cast the spell Forked Lightning as a bound spell with a power level of 6. If this bound spell is dispelled, use the scatter and artillery dice to determine the distance and direction where it will strike from Adrian, because is WILL strike. A roll of MISFIRE results in the spell striking Adrian ONLY, no other model may take damage. A roll of a HIT is always re-rolled, there is no way Adrian can control the direction of the spell.

- The comet of Cassandora will always use Adrian as a fixed point even if another wizard casts it, friend or enemy.

- Should Adrian ever miscast he must take an initiative test, if he fails he takes an additional wound before working out the miscast result, this may result in Adrian being killed by a single miscast. Any model in base contact with Adrian when he miscasts also takes a Strenght 6 hit, before working out miscast result, because of all the stored lightning being released from Adrian

Fast as Lightning
Adrian have adopted some of the speed stored in lightning and because of this has a 4+ wardsave.

Natural Talent
Adrian is a natural talent when it comes to casting celestial spells, therefore he always gets +1 to his casting attempts, he may only chose the lore of heavens.

Adrian Donner could be made a Lord Character, to represent him as an older version :P could be nasty..

Desciple's Bright Wizard, Gawin Reiss
Emil Lankdorf spent most of his life working in his father's blacksmith shop. He had always had a gift for creating light, yet incredibly strong suits of armour. When the Elector count of Talabheim heard about Emil, he sent word to him asking for him to become an armorer for his army. Emil refused, as he enjoyed his simple life making things for the people in his village. The Count was not happy with this, and sent a small force of mercenaries to bring Emil to him. The mercenaries did not care how they accomplished their task, and began to burn the village. Emil saw the first buildings light, and began donning one of his suits of armour. He grabbed a sword, and ran outside, yelling at the mercenaries to stop this foolishness. As he ran, he felt his armour lighten greatly. When he reached the mercs, his sword cut through there armour without any resistance. Emil killed them all. When he inspected the bodies, he saw that his blade had not actually pierced the armour, but simply melded with it and gone through. He is now in hiding, occasionally showing up on the battle field when a small village is in danger.

Emil is a level 1 Gold Wizard  125 points
M WS BS S  T  W  I  A  Ld
4   4   3   3  3  2  4  2   8

Emil is armed with a Longsword. It counts as a hand weapon in combat, but ignores armour saves.

He has crafted himself an incredible suit of armour since his last encounter. He counts as wearing the Armour of Tarnus, and also has a 5+ ward save.

He selects one random spell from the Lore of Metal as normal, and may not take any further magical items. He may ride a warhorse (10 pts) which may have barding (4pts).

Folken's Bright Wizard, Victor Kraus
As a sergeant in the Talabheim 2nd swordmen division, Victor Krause was an adept with a blade and shield and perhaps were it not for a twist of fate would be serving to this day in that capacity.  During a chaos incursion, he met a challenge by a Chaos Warrior to safeguard the golden wizard within their unit whose magiks were dulling the enemies blades and weighing down their armor.  This presented an opening and with a fierce cry Victor brought his sword down on his foe only to have it shatter to the hilt on the enchanted chaos armor.  His doom was upon him when suddenly something within him began to flow and the wind Aqshy answered the man's need.  A sword of flame came out from the broken hilt and with it he cut down the champion.  At the sight of their champion cleaved put the remaining warriors to flight.  Victor rallied his company to pursue and when the last enemy was dispersed or cut down did he finally stop and the sword returned to a burnished hilt while Krause's eyes and face bore new markings.  The accompanying alchemist recognized the signs of Aqshy and pulled the young sergent aside.  The choice now was either to join the colleges of magic or be executed for practicing sorcery outside it as Imperial law was without leniency on this ground.  The next day the pair made way for the capital with the broken hilt and shield being the only tokens from his prior life.  Victor is now a student of the Bright School though makes time to spar the Reiksland men to show what men of the City of the Comet can do.

M 4 WS 4 BS 3 S 3 T 3 W 2 I 4 A 2 Ld 7

Hand weapon, Armor of Tarnus, Victor Kraus's sword hilt(+1 to cast Flaming Sword of Ruin), shield.  
He may purchase 25 points of magical items but may not select any magical armor or weapons.
He may be equipped with a warhorse(+10 pts) that has barding(+4 pts)

Special Rules:
Victor is a lvl 2 bright wizard and selects his magic from the lore of Fire.  He must exchange one of his random spells for the Flaming Sword of Ruin.   If he is not mounted, he gains +1 to his armor save just as though he was using a mundane weapon when under the effects of the Flaming Sword of Ruin.

Cost: 140 pts

Warlord's Amber Wizard, Hagen
Hagen was a troubled boy. Preferring to wander the wilderness of his homeland of ostland than learning the ways of a smithy from his father. Hagen felt more at peace when with the animals, people tended to argue and hate and fight. His animal friends merely followed their survival instincts, and soon Hagen too learnt their ways, and the ways of the forest.
One day, while communing with a mighty bear, did Hagen spell smoke on the wind, a wind coming from the direction of his village. Sensing trouble, Hagen scurried towards his 'home'. Beast-men, tainted by Chaos were burned the village, after having killed and mutilated the occupants in blind carnage. Rage overcoming him, Hagen rushed the nearest foe, tearing him apart with his hands. Hagen roaring with anguish at the horrible creatures and the destruction they wrought. The beast-men fled from this new threat, scattering back into the forest, leaving the young man alone.

Hagen is a L1 Beasts Wizard.
M 4 | WS 3 | BS 2 | S 3 | T 3 | W 2 | I 4 | A 1 | Ld 7

140 pts

Bear Form
Hagen must take a leadership test at the beginning of each turn. A failed test will result in Hagen being subject the 'Bear's Anger' spell (which may not be dispelled).
Any time the Bear's Anger is cast on Hagen, he also gains +1 T, 4+AS (from thick hide), Frenzy, causes fear and always counts as Outnumbering and subject to stubborn.
Hagen cannot cast spells while subject 'Bear Form'.

Hagen only knows one spell - Bears Anger - he may choose to cast this on himself - and if successfully cast, Hagen assumes the 'Bear Form' rules as written above.
Hagen can scout and may not join units, nor use the general's leadership

Odominus's Grey Wizard, Dieter the Rootsinger
The son of a murdered ranger, Dieter lives deep in the Imperial Forest in Reikland. There he communes with nature while continuing down a psychic path to total mastery of mind over body. A hermit by nature, he rarely interacts with others. Upon rare occasion, either due to a personal request from the Emperor or because of a grudge, Dieter will show up on the battlefield covered with soot and sweat ready to bring pain to the enemy. Dieter will attempt to get to a strategically located forest as soon as possible. From the forest's edge, he unleashes his magics while enjoying protection from the spirit of the forest.  


M4  WS3  BS3  S3  T3 W2 I3 A1 LD7

Grey Mage 2nd Lvl

Special Item: Pendant of the Rootsinger - The wearer of the pendant is granted mastery over tree spirits and if in a forest, has the ability to cause tree roots to spring forth from the ground to aid in his defense (enemy suffers an additional +1 to hit with shooting attacks while bearer is in a forest). While in a forest, bearer is immume to psychology. It also allows bearer to make a flight movement into and out of a forest via the Steed of Shadows spell (may not charge).

Magic Items: Doomfire Ring, Wizard Staff (Dieter will usually roll 4 PD when attempting to cast)

Must select Steed of Shadows as one of his spells.

Shadoweyed's Grey Wizard, James Laum
James was a relatively normal young man, growing up in the outskirts of the Slyvannia territory. He took knidly to others but one oddity that really stood out, his "weakness" to sunlight. He was born exceptionally pale and had to cover up to walk out in sunlight. He was soon excepted to the Schools of Magic and found his skill rather exceptional in the lore of shadows. So exceptional that he eventually learned to keep his spell Steed of Shadows active while casting other spells and doing other tasks.

He was finally able to convince the higher ups within the Schools of Magic to allow him to return to Sylvannian country to help those fighting the undead. James has not since returned to the School, but instead sends word every once in a while of his continuing battle.

James Laum

M4 WS3 BS3 S3 T3 W2 I3 A1 Ld7

Hand Weapon
Dark Shroud
Robes woven of wool and shadow, James becomes much harder to target or even watch for very long and as such, Enemies are at a -2 to hit James.
No other equipment may be taken.

Special Rules:
Shadow Steed:
James may never take the first spell in the Lore of Shadows, if it is randomly rolled he rerolls it as he consistanly rides the Steed. The Steed provides an additional attack at WS4 S4, as well as Flying but may not be targeted. As such James is always on a 40x 40 base, much like a Pegasus Wizard Lord.
James is a level 2 Wizard

Marius's Grey Wizard, Ludwig Dopplekranz
Ludwig was born in Salzemund, but his parents died when he was young. He lived on the streets and took up thievery, at which he became very adept. WHen Ludwig was sixteen, a mysterious stranger was passing through town with a group of shady characters trailing behind him. Ludwig immediately became suspicious of this man and followed him for the rest of the day. In the evening, he saw the man sneak into a noble's house and assassinate him. When the man left the house, Ludwig (rather foolishly) confronted the man and told him what he had seen. The man immediately took to Ludwig, and instead of killing him, initiated him into his group of assassins, in which Ludwig quickly rose to the rank of right hand man. One day, the man, known to his band only as  "The Seeker" gave Ludwig a particularly dangerous assignment. After Ludwig has made his way through a secret tunnel, he arrived in a large room, in which his mark was sitting. As Ludwig crept up behind his mark, the door into the room opened, and Ludwig knew that he was done for, but suddenly, he felt a wind blow in his hair, though the room was completely closed. Holding his breath in the middle of the room, he was astonished to find that the servant who had entered did not see him. When she left the room, his mark turned in his chari and looked directly at him; it was The Seeker! The Seeker revealed himself as a recruiting wizard from the grey order, and sent Ludwig to Altdorf to be initiated into the schools of magic. Soon Ludwig showed himself as an extremely adept wizard, and he could boast extreme fleet of foot and skill with his dagger. He was instituted as head assassin and given the dagger of shadows, a knife so sharp and accurate that even the Gods cannot protect the victim,

M 5 WS 5 BS 3 S 3 T 2 W 2 I 5 A 4Ld 7

Cloak (6+ AS in direct combat)
Dagger of shadows (+1 to hit, no ward saves allowed)
Shroud of secrecy (Ludwig may be deployed in a unit of scouts)

Special rules:
Ludwig is a Lvl 2 Wizard who takes his spells from the lore of shadows
Ludwig may always exchange one of his randomly determined spells for unseen lurker
Ludwig may refuse a challenge and remain in the front rank, but when in a challenge, he always strikes first

(Not quite sure, but)

Commandant's Amethyst Mage, Mort Básanduine
Nobody is quite sure where Mort Básanduine comes from, people don't ask her that kind of question.   She is a tall, well built woman who is often described as having the perfect figure.   Her personality is as cold as ice and her stare is enough to make the strongest and bravest warrior back down.   She has been a member of the personal bodyguard of the Commander of the Inner Temple Knights for several years, since her great powers were first revealed.
Mort Básanduine keeps very much to herself and spends a great deal of her time studying deeper and more dangerous ways of killing the human body.   Her knowledge is very vast and her ability to use it even vaster.   She is truely a dangerous addition to any army.  

Mort Básanduine is a level 2 Death Mage

M4 WS2 BS2 S2 T4 W2 I3 L8

Wizard's staff.   Handweapon.   Must be played as presented

Special Rules.

Deep Studying I.
Mort rolls three spells at the start of each battle and discards one to represent her deep studying

Deep Studying II.
Mort roll 2d6 instead of 1d6 when dispelling and discards one of them

Presence of Ice.
Any creature attempting to harm Mort in hand to hand must take a leadership test at -1.   If that test is failed then the attacks are lost.

Prefect Beauty.
Creatures attempting to fire at Mort gain a +1 to hit if they are of chaos races or Orcs and a -1 to hit if not.

Points 190

The Parade Ground / MOVED: ETC Empire
« on: March 01, 2009, 09:44:20 PM »

I finished Volume 2 of the Magic Tactica - How the Lores Of Magic Stack up against our enemies. The text is available here for your comment and review: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=26164.0 Thank you for all your submissions to it. Powder Monkey is making the final selection of submitted photographs to be included in the work and will be modifying the images with whichever photo editor program he uses.  :closed-eyes: You may lynch him for any errors and omissions or for not including your submission.   :engel:

I now have to work on Volume 3 of the Tactica - The Magic of Our Enemies and I'm looking for submissions for that. If you would like to submit a commentary on a particular army, the thread is here: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=19297.0 We're still looking for submissions for many army types- go to the end of that thread for a list of what we need.

If you haven't been following the thread in the Elector's Forum, the new submissions list each of the armies we face and provides commentary and analysis of - the spells, spell casters, and items affecting the magic phase that they have. We're looking at a lot of text and I need something to break up the monotony of it. I'm looking for images of enemy spell casters, whether alone or in a diorama. It would be good to get representative samples from each enemy army.

Your thoughts and submissions for appropriate images would be appreciated.  :happy:

For your information, the armies we are dealing with are:

Daemons of Chaos
Dark Elves
High Elves
Orcs & Goblins
Tomb Kings
Vampire Counts
Wood Elves

Considering this thread is dealing with how the Empire deals with the above enemies, I didn't think it was out of place to solicit images here, but if the mods feel this is better in the Count's Tavern, then please move it.

Thank you again for your assistance and your contributions.  :::cheers:::

The Imperial Office / Magic Tactica Volume II - Final Draft for Comment
« on: December 30, 2008, 07:57:57 PM »
Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm proud and relieved to announce and finally post the finally edited text of Volume II of the Magic Tactica for your review and comment. What follows is the text as it stands after my furious marathon editing. Please comment on as much as you are able. Powder Monkey is working on incorporating the photographs so generously donated by forum members in the Brush and Pallet. After incorporating any changes you suggest here, the final product will be handed over to Calvin for posting in the War Room.

PLEASE NOTE: The formatting on what is posted here is not final! The headings will be appropriately modified as needed. Also the summary table below will look a lot better in the final - I just don't have the time to draft it properly in a post to make it look neat. In any case, it's a summary of what's posted in the specific army comments.
Magic - Volume II
An Analysis of the Performance of the Lores of Magic Against the Enemies of the Empire

With the completion and long-awaited publication of Volume I of the Magic Tactica, (http://www.warhammer-empire.com/warroom/magica/) we have an understanding of how Magic works in the Empire army and how a general can use the various elements available to him in the Magic Phase of the battle. We can now turn our attention to how each Lore of Magic fares against specific enemies of the Empire. As with Volume I, this work should not be seen as something you need to have next to you when you play your games but something to contemplate before you go to battle. This is a work in progress so your thoughts for additions are welcome.

Also as with Volume I, the actual text for the spells may be found in pages 104 et seq of the 7th Edition rules for Warhammer and in the relevant pages in Warhammer Armies: The Empire.  The analysis of each Lore of magic is left as much as possible in the language of the original poster from this thread: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=19297.0. This work was edited and compiled by Perambulator with considerable input and assistance from PowderMonkey. Perambulator also created the text and analysis that is not otherwise credited. PowderMonkey created the images and graphics and incorporated the photographs of the various spell casters into this work. The various photographs incorporated herein were submitted by posters on this thread: http://www.warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=20234.0
Executive Summary:

As with any work that's a compilation of a variety of opinions, there is much in this that any particular player may disagree with. Some of the contributors provide more detailed analysis of particular spells and some provide more tactical or strategic advice that may be more generally applicable. Indeed, while reading about how magic stacks up against one Army Type, keep in mind it may behoove you to look at what has been commented about other similar armies to develop ideas on how a particular spell or lore may be used in other ways. This is especially true when you consider the additional advice provided in the commentary on generic cavalry-heavy armies, generic horde armies, and the to-be-done-by-some-kind-soul generic ranged attack-heavy armies.

Keep in mind that the focus of the commentary is on how the lores work against Empire enemies. Therefore, the impact of using a particular lore to enhance your own units is not discussed here – refer to Volume I for that. The upshot of this is that, if your army list contains elements that would favor the choice of one lore over another, you may wish to balance those effects over the advice provided here. For example, an army list containing a unit or two of Outriders or a Hellblaster would see more benefit from taking the Lore of Heavens for its base spell “Portent of Far” even against an opponent against whom Lore of Heavens would not be the best choice to use offensively. A corollary to this is that your army list will play a big part in your decision-making. Obviously if you have more than one Battle Wizard you have more flexibility in taking multiple lores to complement both your list and that of your opponent. Therefore it will be possible to take, for example, the Lore of Light to beef up your Outrider’s shooting and something more offensive to deal direct damage to your enemy.

The following table summarizes the relative effectiveness of each lore against most enemy armies that an Empire General will face. Of course, this list is by no means conclusive. Much depends on the specific skill of the general and his opponent, the specific battleground tactical and strategic situation, and the fickle nature of the winds of magic (i.e. bad die rolls, a.k.a. bad luck, or whatever you want to call it). You will also note that it is not complete as it does not provide commentary on every Army type available, thus the definition of this work as a living document. The table follows the example set by Randy Atchman's very useful 6th Edition Magica: Empire Magic Battle Tactics which was the inspiration for the creation of this series of tacticas. The ratings are an approximation of the various commentators' analysis of each lore against each army type and have been guessed at by Perambulator where not originally provided in the comments.

Lore of Magic
Daemons of Chaos+--+/++0+++-/+++
Dark elves+---+0+++++
Dogs of War+-+0+---+
High elves++-00++-+
Orcs & Goblins+00-+++-+
Tomb Kings++++00-++00
Vampire Counts-0+++0++--
Wood elves+00+-+-+
Cavalry armies+++0++0--0
Horde armies++++0+0-+


Rating   Value
++   Essential
+   Very Useful
0   No Particular Advantage or Disadvantage
-   Not Very Useful, But Can Be Effective With the Right Spells
--   Totally Useless

The Lores vs. Beastmen:
by masterengineer [Note: masterengineer wrote up two separate tactica for Beastmen. I’ve taken the liberty of combining the two. –Ed.]

Fire: This lore has many good damage spells against Beastmen. Damage means panic checks and Beastmen have weak leadership except when led by Doombull. Spells like "Fiery Blast" and "Conflagration of Doom" can seriously hurt lightly armored Beastmen, and "Burning Head" is ideal spell for its panic causing ability. The "Burning Head" especially is intriguing, as Herds and Hounds, even chariots, are prone to failing those panic checks. The only downside of this lore, is that Beastmen lack ranked units, so the "Wall of Fire" is somewhat useless. Otherwise this is a topnotch lore against Beastmen. This lore rates a "++" against Beastmen.

Metal: This lore is quite weak against Beastmen, if they don't have many mortal forces to help them, because beasts have low armor and decent Toughness. And using “Transmutation of Lead” to neuter magic items against an army list that has the second worst item selection after Dogs of War is not really convincing. Nevertheless "Distillation of Molten Silver" and "Commandment of Brass" are still decent spells against beasts as Beastmen usually fill up on chariots and stopping those machines of death from moving can save the day. This lore rates a "-" against Beastmen.

Shadow: This is an average lore against Beastmen. The base spell, "Steed of Shadows" is quite useless, as we usually mount our characters, and there aren't any high price low toughness targets for "Creeping Death". "Crown of Taidron" is too harmful for ourselves to use against the tough and also-cheap beasts. "Shades of Death" is very nice little spell against Beastmen, as you get fear immunity, and can force insane courage to Herds and such. This is a good spell, considering that Beastmen have leadership problems, and you can even autobreak herds and such, but the remains in play status weakens this option quite much. "Unseen Lurker" is a very nice spell as always, as it helps you to choose your own battles. "Pit of Shades" is extremely useful against models like Trolls, Centigors, Spawn, Dragon Ogres, Giants and Ogres, and can pay back the cost of your Battle Wizard in one blow quite easily. This lore rates a "+" against Beastmen.

Beasts: This is a mediocre lore, having it's best moments while using “The Beast Cowers” on one of the bigger monsters in the Beastmen list. It’s all-around nice and tidy but certainly not nearly the best. "The Bear's Anger" doesn't work well, unless you have a character without a mount - a rare occurrence as the Empire generally greatly benefits from the armor save a mount provides. "The Oxen Stands" is a good spell, as we may need to rally our troops after they get whacked off by Minotaurs or such. "The Crow's Feast" is good against Herds, causing panic by massacring Ungors. "The Beast Cowers" can save you from a decisive support charge of a Chariot, and is a very good spell against Beastmen. "The Hunter's Spear" gives us some extra stopping power against large monsters, but has no other job against the mainly skirmish based armies of the Beastmen. "The Wolf Hunts" is good if you want to surprise your opponent with your charge, but isn't really that good, because if the random move leaves you short of your intended target, you're toast. This lore is quite mediocre against Beastmen. This lore rates a "0" against Beastmen.

Heavens: This lore lacks the damage potential, psychology potential, and movement restriction abilities that are most important against the Beastmen. Spells that help you against shooting or make your shooting more accurate won't help you against an army that has no shooting and many skirmishers. The ward save from the “Celestial Shield” is not really good. If you need protection against Beastmen magic missiles, they are probably able to dispel this spell, and they lack mundane shooting, except for Centigors. “Forked Lightning” and “Uranon’s Thunder Bolt: are both good (the former even better) with it's low casting value, and no real armor to get through. The otherwise impressive "Comet of Cassandora" also won't work well, as Beastmen can quickly maneuver out of range. This lore doesn't work too well against Beastmen. This lore rates a "-" against Beastmen.

Light: This lore, with it's low casting values, ability to weaken beastmen in battle, heal your characters, and dish out some damage, is a very good lore against the Beastmen. Don't forget: Beastmen may have Daemons in their forces, and this lore is especially effective against daemons. The only weak link of this lore is “Pha’s Illumination”, which I can't find a reason to use against Beastmen, who have weak magical weapons. “Healing Energy” is a nice preservation spell, especially if you are holding something like Minotaurs down with War Altar. “Dazzling Brightness” is ever so useful as Beastmen only have a Weapon Skill of 3 and upwards. We really benefit from their Weapon skill dropping to 1. "Guardian Light” has some utility in strengthening our lines, as many beast units cause fear or even terror! Spells like "Cleansing Flare" can be a game winner when Minotaurs and other high price models are near your caster. This lore is top notch against Beastmen. This lore rates a "++" against Beastmen.

Life: Unfortunately this lore is probably the worst choice against Beastmen. "Mistress of the Marsh" has too short a range to really change anything. "Master of the Wood" doesn't do enough damage to stop anyone from using forest paths. "Gift of Life" is decent, but doesn't save anything. "The Howler Wind" is the single most useless spell against Beastmen. The only things that can be affected by it are Marauder Horsemen throwing axes: big deal! "The Rain Lord" is of same level as "The Howler Wind" - totally useless against Beastmen. "The Master of Stone" won't get any use, because why would beasts wait to be hammered on the top of a rock without shooting units? This lore rates a "--" against Beastmen.

Death: With its psychology and damage spells, this is probably the best lore against Beastmen. "Dark Hand of Death" is a normal magic missile. "Steal Soul" is really not too good, but has some uses for sniping any single wound characters, and killing those precious Foe-Renders. "Wind of Death" is a good missile. "Walking Death" gives us the immunity to fear and ability to force insane courage! "Doom & Darkness" is a great spell against the Beastmen as their armies, with their already very low leadership, really takes a hard hit from this spell, making panicking units almost too easy, and breaking them too. "Drain Life" is nothing special, but can once in a while kill some Ungors and Mortal/Daemon allies. This lore rates a "++" against Beastmen.

Summary: In conclusion, I would say that three best lores against Beasts are: Lore of Fire, Lore of Light, and Lore of Death. Herein ends my last contribution to this noble cause. Remember my fellow generals: the weakness of the hoofed chaos folk lies within the fear in their hearts and their low morale. Exploit that by forcing leadership tests and you are heading towards glory!

The Lores vs. Bretonnia:
by masterengineer

Fire: This is not very good lore against Bretonnian forces. The lore doesn't offer anything but S4 hits in different ways and, as S4 hits hardly scratch Bretttonian armor, you would need terrible amount of hits to do anything worthwhile. This lore rates a "-" against Brettonia.

Metal: This lore is a fine choice against Bretonnia. The “Rule of Burning Iron” can kill Grail Knights and snipe heroes. “Commandment of Brass” is nearly useless, though. “Transmutation of Lead is a good spell, able to take the edge from knightly charges. “Distillation of Molten Silver” is a juicy magic missile, which is average against peasants and even Pegasus Knights. The “Law of Gold” is not too good, but “The Spirit of the Forge” is the ultimate cavalry killer - it can wipe out whole units of the elite Bretonnian knights in single sweep. This lore has things needed to fight Bretonnia. This lore rates a "++" against Brettonia.

Shadows: This lore has “Creeping Death” and “Unseen Lurker”, but otherwise hasn't anything to offer. It’s too risky to take to and get nothing useful. It would be a better choice if only those Knights had lower Initiative scores. This lore rates a "-" against Brettonia.

Beasts: This is the ultimate lore against Bretonnia. “Bear’s Anger” can help you drop some Knights in combat, “The Oxen Stands” helps units that WILL be broken by Bretonnian lances. ”The Crow’s Feast” is just an annoyance against peasants. “The Beast Cowers” is the spell that Bretonnians fear most. It roots their cavalry on the spot, making them extremely vulnerable against charges and out in the open to be shot at. “The Hunter’s Spear”, an otherwise mediocre spell, becomes good when used against Brettonian Knights in lance formations, where a shot from front can kill even 3-4 Knights. “The Wolf Hunts” let's you make a charge by surprise. Useful? Definitely. “The Crow’s Feast” is the least useful of the lore, but otherwise this lore is all we could dream about against Brettonia. This lore rates a "++" against Brettonia.

Heavens: The only really useful spell in this lore against Bretonnia is “Uranon’s Thunder Bolt”, and it isn't good enough to justify taking this lore as all the other spells are quite weak against Bretonnians. Of course you can try to drop “The Comet of Cassandora” on the front of your lines and hope for the best, but I wouldn't. This lore rates a "--" against Brettonia.

Light: This lore has “Dazzling Brightness” which can take away the hitting power of the Brettonian lance formation. “Cleansing Flare” is also a spell to be reckoned with, as it can harm many units at the same time. But “Healing Energy”, “Guardian Light” and “Burning Gaze” aren't anything too good against Bretonnia. This lore rates a "-" against Brettonia.

Life: This is ultimately the weakest lore against Bretonnia. The base spell, “Mistress of the Marsh” has too short a range to stop charges, the second spell, “Master of the Wood”, doesn't do enough damage, the third spell, “Gift of Life”, isn't really needed if your fleeing unit is going to get run down by Brettonian horses anyway. The fourth and fifth spells, “The Howler Wind” and “The Rain Lord”, are useless as Bretonnia doesn't really use any shooting that's worthwhile to stop (with the exception of the Trebutchet at times). “Master of Stone” is again useless, for the same reason - there aren't likely to be any worthy targets on hills. This lore rates a "--" against Brettonia.

Death: The first four spells in this lore are mediocre against Bretonnia, but “Doom & Darkness” is a very good spell. The ability to break unit of knights when you can squeeze a victory on combat is essential. “Drain Life” is also a good spell - those S3 hits are golden when they allow no armor save and can hit many units at one time. This lore rates a "0" against Brettonia.

Summary: The Lores of Metal and Beasts are clearly the best choices against Bretonnia. I would squeeze them both into same army, as they compliment each other very well against any Knight-heavy army.

The Count's Tavern / WHFB Tournament in Erie PA - Dec 27
« on: December 16, 2008, 10:24:54 PM »
There will be another GW supported WHFB Tournament in our local game store Gateway Games in Erie, PA on December 27. Cost $10 to enter and start at 1:00. 

I will not be in town for the holidays, but there it is if you're interested.

The shop's address is:

930 W Erie Plz
Erie, PA 16505
(814) 874-3772

So you can google/mapquest it for directions.


The Count's Tavern / Fantasy Tournament in Erie PA
« on: August 13, 2008, 07:55:47 PM »
This is probably going to interest less than 1% of the members of the forum, but 1% of 6000 members is still 60 people so I'll post it anyway.


Location: Gateway Games in Erie, PA

Date: August 30th

Time: 1PM

Points: 2250

Type: 3 rounds. First round random pairing, second and third round will be swiss pairings.

Entry Fee: $10

Prizes: To be announced.
There will be at least a first and second place prize and also a prize for last place. With enough participation there will probably be a third place prize as well.

If you are interested in coming, send me a PM and I'll get you directions, etc.

The local tournaments are very laid back, congenial, and low key (Most of my army isn't even painted) but there's usually a good mix of people who are fun to play against.  Expect to face hard armies with some elements of cheese, but this is by no means a cheese-fest.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Always Strikes First
« on: March 06, 2008, 04:34:06 PM »
This has been discussed on other topics here, but for fear of threadomancy and to make Rufas happy (depending on which of his posts you believe) I started a new thread.

Read this:

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Tournament Summary
« on: February 27, 2008, 06:03:38 AM »
Well I played my experimental list (for me) with the general on a griffon and a stank. The list was posted in the Parade Ground, but here it is again:

Lord Choice:

General - Total 371 pts
lance +6; griffon +200; Holy Relic +45; AOMI +25; Sigil of Sigmar +15;


Captain - Total 127 pts
Full plate +8; Enchanted shield +15; Pegasus +50;lance +4;

Battle Wizard - Total 115 pts
Level 1; 2 dispel scrolls +50;

BSB - Total 152 pts
FPA +8; barded warhorse +14; Griffon Standard +55

Core Choices

25 Swordsmen, Full Command, and Banner of Arcane Warding - 199 pts
7 Crossbowmen detachment - 56 pts
9 Swordsmen detachment - 54 pts

6 Knights - 138 pts

6 Knights - 138 pts

Special Choices

5 Outriders - 105 pts

5 Outriders - 105 pts

Great Cannon - 100 pts

Great Cannon - 100 pts

Rare Choice

Steam Tank - 300 pts

18 Flagellant Warband w/ Prophet - 190 pts

Total: 2,250pts

The long and short of it is I've determined that the Griffon is not really a good choice against armies that can shoot it out from under you. In a tournament setting I think I will leave this at home. The same with the Pegasus. It wasn't as effective in this tournament. I think I am better served with other character choices than flying ones unless I have a specific plan in mind which is hard to do in a tournament setting.

My previous opinion of the Stank was confirmed - it's powerful, but the autohit and the inability to strike back in your opponents turn is a significant disadvantage. Against opponents that can dish out a lot of high strength attacks it will not last long.

I'm finally getting the hand of the flaggies and I managed to use them to good effect.

Vanilla knights were powerful as always, but I think next time I will find the points to put the musicians in for them.

The swordsmen with the Griffon banner was effective in two out of three games - never leave home without it!

We played 3 games. Game one against the High Elves - my opponent was out shot and out maneuvered. A Solid victory to me that only went for 4 rounds. It would have been a massacre if we played through the game. Highlights: I generated 5 steam points on the charge against his 6 Dragon Princes and rolled for a total of 14 impact hits which wiped them out in the blink of an eye. He also spent 3 turns of magic to destroy my swordsman detachment but he didn't know that they didn't cause panic. Then when he charged my swordsmen with his block of 20 spearmen and killed 8, I still won on combat res because of the Griffon Banner. He passed his test so rinse and repeat for the second round of combat and I ran him down!

Game 2 against the Ogres. With 3 units of leadbelchers, 2 units of maneaters, shooting was actually in his favor. My opponent has an Empire army which he uses to great effect so he knew my army much better than I knew his. I was at an immediate disadvantage. He paniced one of my cannon and wiped out an outrider unit in turn 1. The other outrider unit followed soon after. My usual tactic against Ogres is to wait for him to come to me but I had no choice but to charge up with my griffon, stank, and 1 knight unit on one flank against the maneaters with their brace of pistols and throw the other knight unit at the leadbelchers coming up on the other flank. Th manflayers hot my griffon out from under my general and he was stranded behind the tank. A failed charge with the stank saw it charged by one unit of manflayers with the general and with 16 high strength hits going at it, 3 turns later it was gone. My general only last 2 turns without the mount. The knight unit with the Stank and Griffon never managed to get into combat as I tried to fled them against a charge by some manflayers but couldn't rally them for a response charge - I rolled a 9 - if only I had a musician. The other knight unit actually had a lot of success - managing to take out 2 out of three lead belchers and a unit of Bulls. Adding up the points this was a solid victory to the Ogres. The unit of match for this battle were actually the crossbowmen that did much more damage than anything else I had.

Game 3 against Chaos. While I had some successes - Stank in the grill and flaggies in the flank wiped out his general's unit - he also didn't expect the Griffon Banner - I had a lot of problems. My cannon wiffed many times. My Griffon and knights were tied up with Immune to Psychology units. I was in the right place against the right units to allow me to sweep up both flanks but the dice did not cooperate. My heavy hitters were tied up for 3 rounds and eventually ground to dust. Then his heavy hitters connected with everything else I had. At the bottom of turn 5 all I had left were my flaggies, my crossbowmen detachment, and my wizard. The writing was on the wall and I conceded. 

There we have it. Lessons learned and units tried. The tournament next month will feature a return to the War Altar and I will definitely be including flaggies in it. The rest of the list remains to be determined.


*Edited for spelling and to change manflayers to maneaters*

Like the subject line says, this list is much more of a melee and ranged combat with only a scroll caddy now. What are your thoughts?

Lord Choice:

General - Total 371 pts
lance +6; griffon +200; Holy Relic +45; AOMI +25; Sigil of Sigmar +15;


Captain - Total 127 pts
Full plate +8; Enchanted shield +15; Pegasus +50;lance +4;

Battle Wizard - Total 115 pts
Level 1; 2 dispel scrolls +50;

BSB - Total 152 pts
FPA +8; barded warhorse +14; Griffon Standard +55

Core Choices

25 Swordsmen, Full Command, and Banner of Arcane Warding - 199 pts
7 Crossbowmen detachment - 56 pts
9 Swordsmen detachment - 54 pts

6 Knights - 138 pts

6 Knights - 138 pts

Special Choices

5 Outriders - 105 pts

5 Outriders - 105 pts

Great Cannon - 100 pts

Great Cannon - 100 pts

Rare Choice

Steam Tank - 300 pts

18 Flagellant Warband w/ Prophet - 190 pts

Total: 2,250pts

This list has 3 killing units - the griffon, the steam tank, and the swordsmen (with the BSB), with the knights as flankers and the Pegasus for warmachine/wizard hunting. The Flagellants are a tarpit to set up charges for the swordsmen. The Stank is also a point sink for 300 vp. And the Outriders and Cannon do what outriders and cannon are meant to do.


There's a tournament at our local gaming store this weekend - no comp score so I figure, what the heck, I should field my Stank again - I've only used it once (with a War Altar) and I don't intend to use it at the next tournament that does have a comp score. As I've already tried the Stank/War Altar combo, I thought I would try out my Griffon this time (which I have yet to put together) but I could use some help with the army list. I havent given any of the infantry a banner yet - for one thing. Here's what I have so far:

Lord Choice:

General - Total 370 pts
AOMI +25; lance +6; pistol +9; griffon +200; Holy Relic +45


Captain - Total 151 pts
shield +2; Dawn Armor +35; Pegasus +50;lance +4; longbow +10

Battle Wizard - Total 130 pts
lvl 2 +35; Rod of Power +30

Battle Wizard - Total 100 pts
lvl 2 +35

Core Choices

1st Battalion:
24 Swordsmen, Full Command - 169 pts
7 Crossbowmen detachment - 56 pts
9 Swordsmen detachment - 54 pts

2nd Battalion:
24 Swordsmen, Full Command - 169 pts
7 Crossbowmen detachment - 56 pts
9 Swordsmen detachment - 54 pts

5 Knights - 115 pts

5 Knights - 115 pts

Special Choices

5 Outriders - 105 pts

5 Outriders - 105 pts

Great Cannon - 100 pts

Great Cannon - 100 pts

Rare Choice

Steam Tank - 300 pts

Total: 2,249pts

I'm not sure what I would change. Any thoughts?


EDIT: switched the captain's pistol to a longbow to get closer to the point limit.

The Brush and Palette / Empire Magic in Action - Call for Pictures
« on: February 04, 2008, 10:09:16 PM »
I finished Volume 1 of the Magic Tactica - How the Empire uses magic. Thank you for all your submissions to it. Calvin should be posting it in the War Room over the next couple of days. 

Powder Monkey made the final selection of models that were included in the work and he modified the images and played with whichever photo editor program he uses. :closed-eyes:  You may lynch him for any errors and ommisions or for not including your model.   :engel:

I now have to work on Volume 2 of the Tactica - How the Lores of Magic stack up against each of our enemies and I'm looking for submissions for that.

If you havent been following the thread in the Elector's Forum, the new submissions list each of the armies we face and provides commentary and analysis of how each Lore stacks up against them. We're looking at a lot of text and I need something to break up the monotony of it. I'm not sure what kind of images would work - maybe Empire troops in action against specific army types? Or wizards on the battle field? Maybe just representative pieces from each enemy army?

Your thoughts and submissions for appropriate images would be appreciated.  :happy:

For your information, the armies we are dealing with are:

High Elves
Tomb Kings
Dark Elves 
Wood Elves
Ogre Kingdoms
Chaos Dwarves
Dogs of War

Generic Cavalry Armies 
Generic Horde Armies 
Generic Shooty Armies

Considering this thread is dealing with how the Empire deals with the above enemies, I didn't think it was out of place to solicit images here, but if the mods feel this is better in the Count's Tavern, then please move it.

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