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I have long been rather displeased with the Magic Rules of the 8th edition and while there are many pros to them over the previous versions I think they didn't go far enough in some area's and too far in others. These are some vague ideas I've been throwing around on diversifying the spell lists and adding some extra flavor and change to the way the Magic Phase operates. Slowly I'll add altered lists for other things as I get them done:

ALTERNATE MAGIC

GENERAL
All Spell lores are made up of 8 spells; a Signature Spell, Six Normal Spells, and one Grand Spell. Spell selection is as normal but Grand Spells may only be used in games which feature Grand Armies (+3000 points). When rolling for spells in a Grand Battle any roll of a six allows the player to choose whatever spell they wish.

Magic is divided into four categories: Bound, Divine, Ritual, and Arcane. Each of these have general rules that alter how these lores operate.

Bound Magic
Bound magic is magic that has been tied to an item imbuing it with the power to cast spells on its own. They use no power dice in order to use but must be successfully rolled to cast but need not be held by a model that can normally cast spells. In general these are bound items which cast on a 4+ eventually I think I'll add Dwarf Rune Magic to this which will still stay fluff true but draw in elements from WAR and avoid it being a generally dead phase for the Dwarf player.

Divine Magic
This covers Prayers and such and while Sigmar Warrior Priests are the only users at the moment it is tied to my Advanced religion rules elsewhere. Further I think expansion of this could include turning Plague Priest/Plague Abbots or say Bret Grail Knight Characters into having their own divine lores as well.

Ritual Magic
I was saddened that Tomb Kings and Ogres lost their special miscast rules and while making their magic be in line with others I think subtle changes tied to the expanded Miscast rules could restore this difference. If a Ritual Magic Spell results in a miscast it is resolved on the Minor Miscast regardless of how many Power Dice were used in its casting. The only time this is not the case is when casting Grand level spells which follow the normal rules of Miscasts.

Arcane Magic
Pretty much the same old magic as everyone has now.

SPELL TYPES
Hex and Augment types are perfectly fine but having Direct Damage, Magic Missile, and Magical Vortexes seems quite silly when the intent of these spell is to cause damage. In addition there really shouldn't be a difference between a Mage sending sorcerous energy forward in the form of a big fireball from his hands or the magic energy to create little creatures that do the damage themselves, it really should be in the Mage's vision field either way.

Direct Damage, Magic Missiles, and Magical Vortexes are now all termed Damage Spells. They all require line of sight and may not be cast if the Wizard or the unit they are with are engaged in combat unless otherwise stated.

MISCASTS
Nasty miscasts are good but there should be some reward for restraining from throwing gobs of dice at a spell and not.

Minor Miscasts
Any spell cast with Irresistible Force using three or less power dice rolls d6 on the following table:

1- Re-roll on Major Miscast Table
2-3 -d6 Power Dice, affected caster may cast no further spells this magic phase
4-6 affected caster may cast no further spells this magic phase

Major Miscasts
Any spell cast with Irresistible Force using four or more power dice rolls 2d6 on the following table:

2 Dimensional Cascade as is plus ends Magic Phase
3-4 Calamitous Detonation as is plus ends Magic Phase
5-6 Detonation as is plus caster may cast no further spells this magic phase
7 -d6 power dice caster may cast no further spells this magic phase
8-9 Magical Feedback as is plus caster may cast no further spells this magic phase
10-11 Power Drain same except -1 lvl of magic not d3 and ends magic phase
12 Mind Wipe Caster Reduced to 0 magic levels and for all purposes is no longer a magic user (for generating dice/channeling etc.) Model suffers Stupidity for remainder of game, Ends Magic Phase

MAGIC RESISTANCE
For what it is supposed to do it is generally worthless and not at all in keeping with its background. So is amended as follows.

Units targeted by a Damage spell gains a ward save equal to +1 per level of magic resistance. So Magic Resistance of 3 garners a 4+ ward save. This does not stack with other ward saves but is used if it is the superior ward save. If the spell allows no saves, Magic Resistance saves are still admissible.

Units targeted by Hex or Augment spells cast upon the unit by either friendly or enemy Wizards confers one free dispel dice per level of magic resistance which are automatically used toward dispelling the spell.

The Eight Book Lores (Arcane)
LORE OF HEAVENS
Lore Attribute: Celestial Observer
Damage Spells do not require LOS or Forward Arc restriction. +1 to Casting Roll vs Flyers

Signature Spell. The Sign of Amul (Augment)
Casting Value: 4+/8+/12+
Range:24"
Re-Roll any one die that affects unit
Re-roll 2 dice that affect unit
Re-Roll 3 dice that affect unit

1. (Dis)Harmonic Convergence (Augment/Hex)
Casting Value:7+/14+
Range: 12"
Friendly Unit re-rolls any 1 results on To Hit, To Wound, and Save rolls/Enemy Unit Re-Rolls any 6 on same.
Upper, all units within 12" of caster benefit/suffer

2. Hailstorm (as Iceshard Blizzard) (Hex)
As is

3. Cerulean Shield (Augment)
Casting Value: 7+/11+
Range 12"/24"
Unit has a 5+ ward save

4. Urannon's Thunderbolt (Damage)
Casting Value:9+/12+
Range: Unlimited
d6 S4 hits
d6 S6 hits

5. The Crystal Charioteer (Damage)
Casting Value: 11+/15+
Range:12"/24"
d6+1 S5 hits no armor save, unit pushed back number of inches equal to number of unsaved wounds. If this causes it to collide with another unit causes d6 S3 hits to that unit and then placed 1” in front. Unit stops at table edge or impassable terrain never driven off or into it..

6. Forked Lightning (Damage)
Casting Value:13+/16+/20+
Range: 24"
d6 S4 hits no armor save,  jumps to nearest enemy unit within 6" of original target on a d6 roll of 5+, continues until roll fails or runs out of fresh enemy units within 6"
d6+1 S5 hits no armor saves, jumps to nearest enemy unit within 6" of original target on a d6 roll of 4+..
d6+2 S6 hits " " , " " " " d6 roll of 3+

7. Comet of Casandora
Casting Value:15+/22+
Range: Unlimited
Place target spot, each player turn new chit on d6 1-3, 4-6 Comet lands, all units in d6 x number of markers inches are hit by 2d6 + number of markers S 5 + number of markers hits.
Upper Level Spell places 2 marker per phase

LORE OF LIFE
Lore Attribure: As is

Signature Spell: Boon of Ghyran (Augment)
Casting Value: +8/+16
Range: 18"
Gives target unit either +2 T or 5+ Regeneration Save
Gives target unit both +2 T and 5+ Regeneration Save

1. Awaken the Wood (Damage)
Casting Value: 6+/10+
Range: As is
As is/ upper version S6

2. Mistress of Marsh (Hex)
Casting Value: 8+/16+
Range: 12"/24"
Target unit treated as if in marshy terrain. If it attempts to move it must take dangerous terrain tests as per normal rules.

3. Throne of Vines (Augment)
Casting Value: 8+/16+
Range: Self
Remains in Play
Lower: Re-roll Major Miscast results, Adds +1 to rolls on the Minor Miscast chart. Adds +1 to all casting rolls.
Upper: Treats Major Miscasts as Minor Miscasts on a d6 roll of +2, Adds +2 to rolls on the Minor Miscasts chart. Adds +2 to all casting rolls.

4. Thorn Shield (Hex)
Casting Value: 9+/13+
Range: As is
As is, upper version is S4

5. Rainlord (Hex)
Casting value: 11+/16+
Range: 18"/36"
Any unit effected may not fire in the shooting phase until after the beginning of casters next magic phase

6. Re-Growth (Augment)
Casting Value: 12+/24+
Range: 18"/36"
As is

7. Dwellers Below (Damage) as is


LORE OF LIGHT
Lore Attribute: Defy the Darkness
+1 to dispel Chaotic, Skaven, and Undead spells. +1 to Damage spells verses Chaotic, Skaven, and Undead.

Signature Spell: Ulzah's Healing Hand (Augment)
Casting Value:4+/8+
Range: 24"
Dispels any spell currently affecting the unit. Unit immune to poison and killing blow until next friendly magic phase.
Above plus D3 wounds restored

1. Shems Burning Gaze (Damage) as is

2. Pha's Protection (Augment)
Casting Value: 6+/12+
Range: 24"
Unit has Magic Resistance of 1, Verses Chaotic, Skaven, or Necromatic Lores Magic Resistance of 2.
Unit has Magic Resistance of 2, Verses Chaotic, Skaven, or Necromantic Lores Magic Resistance of 3.

3. Karu's Guardian Light (Light of Battle) (Augment)
As is

4. Net of Amyntok (Hex)
As is

5. Urra's Dazzling Brightness (Hex)
Casting Value:11+/19+
Range:
Reduces WS, BS, or I to a value of 1
Reduces WS, BS, and I to a value of 1

6. Banishment (Damage)
As is

7. Timewarp
As is

LORE OF METAL
Lore Attribute: +1 to all casting rolls targeted at units with an armor save of 4+ or better and Warmachines

Signature Spell: Rule of Burning Iron (Damage)
Casting Value: 6+/12+
Range: 24"
Generates d6 hits at S3 with +1 S for every two levels of Armor Save the foe has.
Generates 2d6 hits at S3.............

1. Commandment of Brass (Hex)
Casting Value: 8+/13+
Range: 18"/36"
Cast on any Warmachine or Chariot not in combat. Unit may not move or fire until after next friendly magic phase. If charged unit may hold and the crew/mounts may defend themselves. If forced to flee, they are automatically destroyed.

2. Enchanted Blades of Abian - as is

3. Glittering Robe - as is

4. Transmutation of Lead - as is

5. Bane of Forged Steel (Hex)
Casting Value: 13+/18+
Range: 12"/24"
Any bonuses from weapons are nullified until next friendly magic phase. Units are treated as essentially being armed only with single hand weapons.

6. Searing Doom (Damage)
Casting Value:15+/20+
Range: 18"
Causes d6 +1 per level of Armor Save up to 3+, S4 Hits that allow no armor saves
Causes 2d6 +1 per level of Armor Save up to 3+, S4 Hits that allow no armor saves

7. Final Transmutation (Damage)- as is

LORE OF SHADOWS
Attribute: As is

Sig Spell: Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma (Hex)
Casting Value: 5+/7+/11+/10+
Range:24"
Reduces M, WS, BS, or I by 1
Reduces S or T by 1
Reduces S and T by 1
Reduces M, WS, BS, and I by 1

1. Steed of Shadows
As is

2. Pelt of Midnight (Augment)
Casting Value:6+/10+
Range: 24"
All BS related attacks at unit suffer -1 to hit, artillery required to reroll successful hits on scatter dice, cannon shots fall d6” short of targeted spot before initial roll and must re-roll any bounce result 8 or greater.
All BS related attacks at unit suffer -2 to hit, artillery must scatter, cannon shots fall d6+3” short of targeted spot before initial roll and must re-roll any bounce result 6 or greater.

3. Creeping Death (Damage)
Casting Value: 7+/14+
Range: 18"
d6 S3 hits
2d6 S3 hits

4. Pendulum (Damage)
As is

5. Shades of Death (hex)
Casting Value: 12+/17+
Range:12”/24”.
Remains in Play. Enemy Unit treats all opponents as if they cause fear, fear causers cause terror, and terror causers force re-rolls of successful terror checks.

6. Unseen Lurker (Augment)
Casting Value: 13+/18+
Range:12"/24"
Unit may make 8" free move in magic phase. No charges.

7 Pit of Shades (Damage)
as is

LORE OF FIRE
Attribute: As is

Signature Spell - 5:As is

6. Flame Storm (damage)
Casting Value: 13+/22+
Range: 24"
Causes d6 S4 hits, Players each roll d6 + lvl of casting wizard and dispelling wizard respectively, if caster rolls equal or greater than that of the dispelling wizard wizard the target unit suffers a further d6 S4 hits. This roll continues until the Casting player is either defeated by the dispelling player or rolls a 1.
Upper Level d6+2 S6 hits

7. Conflagration of Doom
As Flame Storm currently

DEATH
Lore Attribute: The Power of Shyish
Any spell cast that inflicts at least one unsaved wound generates another power dice for the pool on a roll of 5+

Signature Spell: Spirit Leeching (Damage)
Casting Value: 7+/12+
Range:12"/24"
Target single model, both roll 2d6, if caster has roll number target loses one wound and caster gains one wound.

1. Aspect of Dreadknight (Augment)
As is

2. Death Dealer (Augment)
Casting Value: 7+/11+
Range: 24"
For every casualty sustained by unit in close combat they may make and additional attack back until next friendly magic phase.
Upper, same as above +1 S

3. Caress of Laniph (Damage)
Casting Value: 7+/14+
Range: 12"
Targets single model, 2d6 - the T, S, or I of target (defenders choice) hits that wound on 4+.
Same as above but caster picks either T, S, or I.

4. Darkhand of Death (Damage)
Casting Value:8+/16+
Range: 18"
d6 S4 hits no armor save
2d6 S4 hits no armor save

5. Doom and Darkness (Hex)
As is

6. Drain Life (Damage)
Casting Value: 13+/26+
Range: 12"
d6+2 S4 hits allowing no armor saves
d6+2 S4 hits allowing no armor saves on all enemy units within 12" of caster

7. Purple Sun (Damage)
As is


LORE OF BEASTS

Attribute: As is

Sig Spell: Ursos the Bear's Anger (Augment)
Casting Value: 8+/12+/16+
Range: 12"
+1 S, T, and A to self or single character on foot within range
+2 S, T, and A " " "
+3 S, T, and A " " "

1. Corvos the Crows Feast (As Flock of Doom) (Damage)
As is

2. The Beast Cowers (Hex)
Casting Value:8+/13+
Range:18"/36"
Only units not in combat, unit must pass LD test or may not do anything until the end of their next turn. Cavalry, Monstrous Cavalry, Warbeasts, and Monstrous Beasts must take test on unmodifiable LD value of mount/monster/beast.

3. Wildform (Augment)
As is

4. Amber Spear (Damage)
As is

5. Curse of Anraheir (Hex)
As is

6. Lupen the Wolf Hunts (Augment)
Casting Value: 13+/20+
Range: 12"/18”
Unit may make 8" free move in magic phase. No charges or reforms only forward moves and wheels.
Upper as lower but unit also gets the Devastating Charge special rule until next friendly magic phase.

7. Transformation of Kadon (Augment)
As is

So the talk in the Elector's Forum had me digging through my old various projects to see old Kislev notes, reading through old supplements and the like and these were some of my random musings.


List of special rules:
HORSELORDS.
Kislevites are renowned for producing perhaps the finest cavalry in the entire world as such the following special rules apply:

Fire and Flee: Any unit of Fast Cavalry armed with missile weapons may opt to Fire and Flee as a charge reaction. Shooting is resolved exactly as if the unit had opted to Stand and Shoot as a charge reaction the regiment then flees after the shooting exactly as if it had opted to simply Flee. Should the shooting result in a Panic test that makes the charging regiment fail its charge the firing unit still flees as it was too busy redirecting their mounts to notice the effect of their missiles.

Counter Charge: Any unit of cavalry armed with lances may respond to a charge of enemy cavalry starting more than 8” away from them by opting to Counter Charge. The player must announce their intent to counter charge prior to the enemy rolling for charge distance and once elected the unit is moved forward 8” and the enemy rolls to see their own charge distance. Should the number rolled still be insufficient to complete the charge the enemy unit fails the charge as per normal rules. Combat is resolved at initiative as normal and all weapon or other rules related bonuses for charging apply to both sides.

Disengage: Any unit of cavalry that successfully wins a combat against opposing infantry but fails to break them may opt to Disengage after the completion of the round of combat. The unit may be pursued by the enemy but the pursuit roll is minus the number by which it lost the combat. If caught is the unit is destroyed but if it escapes it will automatically rally and reform.

GLORIOUS CHARGE
Enemy regiments charged by the Winged Lancers take a panic test, if failed the target flees as if it chose to use flee as charge reaction and Lancers may attempt to redirect as per normal rules.

PRECISION DRILL
Unit may re-roll any missed To-Hit rolls in the turn in which they Charge or Counter-Charge

WINTERS COAT
Confers a 5+ Armor Save. If on a mount add +2 to riders Armor Save rather than +1.

FURY OF URSUN
Unit must always pursue.

GROWLING FEROCITY
After the initial round of attacks in the combat the unit may make an additional number of attacks equal to the difference between the number of wounds each side as currently caused, either pressing an advantage or trying to overcome a deficit.

TOR’S GRACE
Always has a parry save even when armed with a single or two hand weapons, a great weapon, or mounted.


Lords
General type lord
No great ideas here yet

Ice Witch Lord
lore to be worked out

Heroes
Boyar
Along the lines of old one

Ice Witch
again nothing fleshed out

Droyaska
Glass cannon sort of character but with all sorts of options as long as they are swords. So great sword, two swords, one sword and shield, throwing knives while we are at it.
Special Rules: Killing Blow, Tor’s Grace


Core
Winged Lancers
The iconic core unit of the army. Pretty much the same as old list. Gryphon Legion now a 0-1 upgrade to this entry and not one of their own.

Special Rules:
Winged Lancers- Horselords, Glorious Charge
Gryphon Legion- Horselords, Glorious Charge, Precision Drill

Ungol Horsemen
Rather than just horse archers these represent any of the of the Ungol steppe nomads serving the Tsarina. Bow, Spear, shield, and javelin options
Special Rules: Horselords, Fast Cavalry

Kossars
Again same old as the Kislev allied list. Trying to come up with a 0-1 option that evokes the old rule from Tsar Boris and adds an Ursun flavored unit to the mix
Special Rules: Steady in the Ranks

Pulksmen
Name is more of a place holder. Light Armored average human soldiers light armor default must take either Bardiche, Spear and Shield, or Crossbows
Special Rules: None

Smerdy Levy
Name again sort of place holder but wanted a sort of woodsmen unit made up of the descendants of the mixed marriages of defeated Ropsmen and Friking peoples and the conquering Ungols and Gospodars. Light foot bowmen and javelin men.
Special Rules: Skirmishers

Special
Druzhina Knights
Barded steed heavy cavalry. The lamellar armor, face plated helm, eastern half barding sort of appearance types. Gives a bit of an option for a bit more survivability in the cavalry choices.
Special Rules: Horselords, Precision Drill

Streltsi
Like Kossars but with Handguns and perhaps light armor.

Kreml Guard
Kislevs only heavy infantry, bardiche and heavy armor

Bear Pack
War Bears with I'm leaning toward a mounted Ursun Priest or Tamer more like the Warmaster unit. Operate sort of like the Hunt Master in the old Cult of Ulric did for hounds.
Special Rules: Winters Coat, Fury of Ursun, Growling Ferocity, Forest Strider

War Wagon
Again working off the Warmaster model with adaptations from WAB rules. Mobile artillery/defensive position for expensive but poor armor save Kislev infantry. Rules are a touch long and will be included below.
Special Rules: Mobile Fortress, Stockade, Palisade Gun, Large Target, Immune to Psychology

Rare
Bear Riders/Sons of Ursun
Tsar Boris clones essentially.
Special Rules: Winter Coat, Ursun’s Fury, Fear, Forest Strider

Light Cannon
Really to fill a failing in the list of no true 'warmachines'. Modeled on the lines of the old DOW cannon


WAR WAGON RULES
MOBILE FORTRESS
The War Wagon is a Unique unit consisting of two stands: a 100mm/75mm wagon containing 6 crewmen and a 75mm/50mm stand consisting of two horses.

Movement: War Wagon may move and march as normal but may not charge. A War Wagon may make any number of wheels or direction changes during a movement phase but a single one halves the unit’s movement allowance.

Shooting: War Wagon crews have a 360 degree line of sight for firing. When moving, crew armed with missile weapons do not suffer any penalty or prohibitions for Moving and Shooting While stationary, crew armed with missile weapons do not suffer the penalty for shooting at units at Long Range.

Close Combat: War Wagons may be charged by enemy units like any other unit. War Wagons may only elect to Hold or Stand and Shoot as a charge reaction though they may opt to form a Stockade as part of the Hold reaction. For all other intensive purposes a War Wagon is treated exactly like a warmachine in close combat (destroyed if broken in combat, no flanks or rear, pursuit automatically restrained) save that enemy units attack by normal base to base contact rules.

STOCKADE
The steppes are the domain of cavalry and it is not always friendly. As such Kislevites often use wagons to protect infantry from attack.

A unit with the Stockade rule either begins the game deployed in this manner or may opt to form a stockade in either the movement phase or as a charge reaction. A War Wagon in Stockade has the same rules regarding Shooting and Close Combat as when it is mobile but gains the Stubborn special rule.

Forming a Stockade in the Movement Phase: During the Remaining Moves portion of the Movement Phase, a player may choose to form a stockade with any of their War Wagons. In the process of forming a Stockade, the War Wagon is allowed to make a normal move including any wheels and pivots following normal rules and allowances. Once any such movement is complete the units stand of horses is removed from the table and the War Wagon is fixed in its current position and facing. Two War Wagons may opt to form a stockade together, provided they have the movement allowance and are adjoined by their shorter 75mm sides.

Forming a Stockade as a Charge Reaction: When a War Wagon is charged it may opt to form a stockade as part of its Hold charge reaction. The units horse stand is removed from play and the War Wagon is left in whatever facing it was in at the point it was charged.

Garrison: A War Wagon that has formed a stockade maybe be joined by a unit of Kossars, Gospodar Militia, or Streltsi. The unit may either be deployed this way or move into contact during a subsequent movement phase. The front of the unit is placed in contact with one of the Wagons 100mm sides and must adopt an equal frontage or as close as is possible.

Once the Stockade is garrisoned the following rules for the combined unit apply:
•   War Wagon conforms to standard facing and fire arc rules of joining unit.
•   Joining unit may fight or fire in the same number of ranks as would be normally allowed if the War Wagon were not present to its front.
•   The combined unit has no ranks to count toward combat resolution.
•   The War Wagon confers Stubborn and Immune to Psychology to the unit provided it is not engaged in hand to hand combat in the flank or rear.
•   Shooting attacks from the front that are not from a crew operated weapons are automatically directed at the joining unit which benefits from Hard Cover.
•   Close Combat attacks from the front suffer a -2 to-hit penalty versus both the War Wagon and the joining unit.
•   Magic Missiles aimed at the unit from the front are resolved against the War Wagon. The Unit is considered a single entity for Hex and Augment spells. Vortexes and Direct Damage resolved as normal.
•   The combined unit takes a single break test based on the highest leadership value. Should the unit be broken the joining unit flees as per normal rules and the War Wagon is destroyed. Enemies may not pursue if they were engaging the unit from the front.
•   If the War Wagon is destroyed by Magic or Warmachine it removed from play and the joining unit reverts back to a normal unit.
•   If the War Wagon is destroyed during close combat whist engaged from the front the joining unit continues to benefit from the to-hit modifiers, Stubborn, and Immune to Psychology until the combat is resolved. Once one side or the other is broken the War Wagon model is removed from play.
•   Characters in the joining unit pass all Look Out Sir rolls generated by fire coming from the units front and may not issue or receive challenges toward enemy characters attacking from the front.

PALISADE GUN
Operates like Bolt Thrower with the following profile Range: 30” Strength: 5 Armor Save Modifier: -3

Alright to not bog down questions with discussion (since this thread may get a bit negative though and as we are no longer talking rumors)I condensed the stuff Soth confirmed today. (If mods think we have to many of these threads going feel free to merge this on in somewhere)

Special Characters
The big man : KF costs 170 skavenslaves
cold blooded to unit, ItP
Leadership 18, when on big chicken or dragon 24"
Chicken : LT, terror, Fly, Bloodroar.
Loyal : passes all monster reaction rolls.
Ghal Maraz is unchanged
Runefang is unchanged
Silver seal : 4++, MR skavenslave.

Kurt (64 spearmen) is the same he used to be. 160 skavenslaves

Ludwig (37 spearmen) is the same, but his BSB bubble is 18"

Marius (44 spearmen) is mad


and has a random table to represent this.


Markus Wolfhart 28 spearmen


 hates monsters, is ItP and scouts.
sort of sniper vs monsters, reroll H. Can pass this on to a unit of Huntsmen.
Amber bow : wounds monster on 4+, Dzombie W

Volkmar : 38 spearmen
Al and has +1 to cast.
5++ regen.
Staff is +skavenslave S when on War Altar, otherwise hand weapon

Luthor : 31 spearmen.
WP and 4++
Once/battle add +Dzombie to WS,S,T and A for 1 CC
knows extra prayer, grants stubborn.

Balthasar : 180 skavenslaves
As before Lvl4, Metal loremaster
The more enemy wizards, the more MR he gets (+1 per, up to 3).
3++ vs shooting
+2 to cast.


Characters
Hold the line : cold blooded break tests !

GM : ItP, grants the same to his unit of knights. Can only ride barded horse.

Engineer : choose 1 warmachine at start of shooting fase, transfer BS (which is the normal nr of wheels on a car) and/or re roll one arty die as before.
stand back= look out as if within range of 5 man unit.

Priests channel as wizards, give hatred like before, cast augment spells (bound zombie points) : 1) reroll W, 2) 5++, 3) give unit flaming, all in base get S 2 slaves hit. These are transferred to detachments as well
War altar :
Chariot (1spearman AS)
LT, stubborn, 4++ (NO MORE UNBREAKABLE !)
All units within 2zombies distance gain hatred
Prayers by AL target all friendly units in the same range
Griffon : Cast Banishment bound 2skavenslaves.
Upgrade : cause terror.

Witch hunter : pick one enemy model, against this model, re roll to hit, KB(close and shooting!), sniper.
immune to fear, treat terror as fear instead.
vs VC,TK or Daemons, re-roll to wound.


Magic Items
Runefang 15 points less
Mace of Helsturm Great weapon or flaming cannonball hit D3 W
AoMI double its old price, but you get an extra 6++
Skavenslayer helm 5 zombies
White cloak of Ulric cost as AOMI, -1 harder to hit, 5++, 2++ vs flaming Talisman.
Speculum 20 skavenslaves, swap STIA, no longer WS
Ring of Volans 10 zombies, 1 use, pick a lore, generate a spell as if lvl 1 wizard (which I interpret as being able to go to default)
Griffon Banner 20 zombies (booh)
Steel Standard 7 spearmen (no hindrance from barding, re-roll 1's to charge)

Core
I = 3 for all core troops.
Detachments rules unchanged, apart from parent transferring psychology to detachments within 3" of them and the free flank gone. Normal charge rules now apply to a countercharge. Detachments can countercharge, but it's not automatically in the flank any more. They do countercharge after the charging unit has moved though, so no biggie there.

Spearmen cost the same as new skeletons. LA, spear included

Halberdiers 1 point more than new spearmen.

Militia 1 point more than new spearmen.

Swordsmen 1 point more than new halberdiers.

Archers1 point more than new halberdiers. Archers are still skirmishers, but can take detachments.

Handgunners and xbows 2 points more than new swordsmen, or 3 zombies if you prefer.

Knights cost 2 grave guard each, Knights : one unit can be IC

Special
Mortar is a stone thrower.Large template. One less S, except under the hole. same cost as the cannon used to be. That has gotten a 20 pt increase, but remains otherwise unchanged.

Reiksguard is a special choice. Reiksguard are stubborn

Flaggies must martyr men, get D6 S3 hits, results improve as more die. (re-roll hit and wound, gain +1T). When a flaggie unit goes into combat, it automatically generates martyr roll.

Greatswords one grave guard.

Demigryphs, AP (beasts only), fear.


Pistoliers, Outriders : Fast cav.

Rare
Helstorm D3 small S3(3) templates, AP. Always indirect fire

The Helblaster gained AP. one misfire = half shots, two = misfire roll, three = Kaboomm 30 shots.

Steam tank :
LT, Random Movement, Terror, Unbreakable.
Can always fire, even when moved.
generate up to 5 SP, the arty die. If result exceeds current W, mishap table with a +1 for each SP
Movement looks unchanged, Steam Gun gains a S for every SP spent after the first.
Steam cannon : As great cannnon, 12" range for every steam point spent.

Laser Wagon :
6++ to all within 2 zombies.
1+ of these = +1 Dispel Dice
Bound 2skavenslaves MM 36" range, S 4slaves bolt thrower multiple wounds Dzombie. no AS, reroll to wound agains undead/daemons

Storm Wagon :
1+ = +1 Power Dice
all within 2zombies +1 to Hit in CC
Bound Lvl 2slaves : small template, scatter Dhalberdier. Effects vary with this die roll. The funniest one repositions the unit in a random direction. Others inflict damage/hex the target.

Well for some odd reason got bored and whilst rummaging through my odd sprues and what not came up with the idea to make a more proper looking Imperial Pegasus....even though I never use them and am generally not a fan of such things. Anyway here are some quick pics. Not the best camera but I hope to use one of my old roomate's soon so I can put up a bunch of the other stuff I've doing of late such as the Jacobite/Highlander regiment and detachments, Archer box converted to handgunners, and the Ulrican Gallowglass types.

Bits used are a spare set of Bret pegasus wings (thank you GW packing error), empire general horse, Lucrezza Belladona horse head, and green stuff. Stupid sun/moon/comets/karl franzs removed for more modest Imperial crosses from old state troop shields.

Just stuff that popped into my head

1. User Group for the Mods, don't know just seems tidier when there isn't a handfull of names across the top listing the mods but one neat user group of all the admins and mods

2. Perhaps a link to Chat, I'm working on the one for The Warhammer Forum at the moment but I thought maybe it might be easy for a joint go at this by simply having a chat link on this board that links to the Applet over at TWF when it goes up. Now who could forget the brief stories Grutch shared of the Kinky girlfriend from Wisconsin on the old WPS chat .

Just some thoughts

One of this forums Fluff hoarders as well haveing finally amassed a siezeable Warmaster Empire force I stumbled upon this interest and very useful bit of information about Solland.

It seems that the last Count of Solland, Eldred Heugenloewd, was without heirs save for his widowed daughter. Wishing to secure the crown of Solland he was able to arrange a marriage with the Count of Middenland. However the trip to Middenheim had to pass through Talabecland, the Elector of which and likewise self proclaimed Emperor wish Eldred's Daughter for himself. While the story is not complete merely a few paragraphs to introduce the scenario it seems that Talabeclanders having ambushed the Sollanders make off with Matilda, to the detriment of Solland thus helping create the heirless situation post 1707.

Not a lot, but could help folks better piece together their own Solland stories.

Many have complained over the past few months as more and more of the SOC fluff has become available that it is poo, contradictory to older fluff and just plain stupid. However with the rescent launch of the SOC website with its beauty flash map an even greater and far dumber strategic blunder can be argued towards how GW has designed the campaign. Firstly we must address what will certainly happen:

Archaons horde will reach Middenheim.

An important statement but by looking at the map and consulting any of the army book maps this would be a tall order. By the GW map it appears that the bulk of Archaon's forces will make their way to the south pf the Middle Mountians on to Middenheim. Here they face crossing a major river before Hergig, a series of fortifications afterward, and a constantly threatened flank to the south from troops from Talbecland and Talbecheim. In addition the army book map for the Empire their are no significant roads that connect these cities, certainly there are roads but they are smaller and less important then the Old Forest road which connects Middenheim and Talbecheim. So an army that is slogging it's way down narrow conjested roads, faced with fortresses which can sally out to attack them everywhere, and several waterways to cross this is no easy task. A single prong of the attack appears to head straight through the Middle Mountains where after having to find a way threw are faced with the formidable Brass Keep near the end, in such narrow places it will be impossible for chaos to utilize ti's numbers effectively. To the North the more reasonable course of attack comes. A single fortress holds the north as well as North Road running to Salzenmund then on to Middenheim. The north does constantly suffer from Elven raids from the sea as well as the ideal deployment place for the forces of Marienburg, Bretonnia, and any stray Tileans coming in at Marienburg.

Now I know some of you are saying "Some Magical type thing will be able to get the forces of Chaos through to Middenheim" which I no doubt believe could be an explination save for the fact that why expend the energy doing it. If the chaos horde cut through Ostermark, Talabecland, Stirland, and the softer southern provinces Archaon could destroy much of the support Middenheim has making the assualt on the Second most formidable fortress in all of the old world easier.

I guess I really should just stop actaully trying to find logic in GW, but as this is a wargamer I would expect some practical applications of warfare to it.

No they don't walk into a bar but simply here are some pics of mine.

First the Kossars:

Painted in more earthy colours then the GW ones still not certain on the scheme though with only tassels and sashes having green to tie in with other units.



Norsemen:

Sick of using Chaos Marauder metals of the 5th Edition for my Norse I have set on a Conversion Scheme in order to make more normal looking norse having converted up only a hand full I felt I needed to paint one so here it goes.



Dwarf:

Just sort of a tag along in this set of pics and one of the few Plastic Dwarfs I even have thought I might as well put him in.



Questions welcome, comments appreciated.

Having come into a bunch of the old Chaos Knights which where a mixed plastic and metal set I was a bit of a quandry as to what to do with them. First with lances they were of little use other then bitz wise to the Chaos converter, and their large spikeyness was ill suited for Empire/DOW. However after a bit of fileing and cliping I had managed to solve the spikey problem but was left with sorting out how gigantic these fellows were compared to my metal Rieksguard knights. This is when I came up with an idea.

Being that I find WHFRP quite a good source for Warhammer ideas, provided they are not contradictory to WFB fluff, I remembered good old High Helm Knights. Though there are several versions of them depending if you read the old or newer Karl Franz (old Karl Franz of WHFRP was a weakling of the highest order) generally the High Helms are a bunch of the largest knights in the Empire consolidated into one order quartered in Altdorf. While first recruits were taken from members of the Rieksguard who made the lofty size requirements those from other orders were excepted and even peasants of great stature were thrown in to meet muster. The High Helms are basically a bunch of big dummies (ah Fred Sanford) for the most part but all good lads. So with that fitting the big looking Knights I had I created my own regiment of the fellows.

The following are some pics of my sole complete fellow, still need some Knightly order bits to finish of the rest.


Front view of the First Knight for my High Helms


Shield Side view


Lance side view

Generally looking for thoughts, comments, offers to ponny up some spare lance, shield, and Rieksguard heads so I can finish these fellows off

Oh and if any one is interested in a more detailed list of how I made this gut let me know and I shall post it.

Despite owning quite a few Empire minis I have never in the current addition really put them together into a regular force and have only seen the field as fluff related allies for my DOW or on the otherside of the table for games against my cheap friends. So here is my Order of Battle version of my list of my current command and regimental figures as well as un-noted or new stuff I've just picked up:

Fluff note: Kriegsburg is a small City State in the Borderlands midway between Blackfire Pass and Barak Varr. The populace of Kriegsburg is mainly of Southern Imperial stock, with a strong Tilean minority, and communities of Bretonnians and Kislevites. The City is under the rule of my Mercenary General Enrico Pedini since it was saved from Orcs and Goblin raiders after the city fathers fled. The City makes it's money from protecting Dwarf shipping that travels on the adjacent Skull River as well as being providing mercenaries to most of the Petty Kingdoms of the Border Princes. Bohiem was a rival City to the north that came under the control of Kriegburg after it's ambitous and youthful lord attempted to charge tolls on caravan and river travel as well as attempting to annex northern parts of Kriegsburg territory.

Garrison of Kriegsburg and Bohiem
Oberst Johan von Immelburg

Kriegsburg Infantrie Brigade
Hauptman Arnold von Sonnefurt
24 Kriegsburg Halberdiers
24 Kriegsburg Swordsmen
12 Kriegsburg Handgunners*
12 Berg Jeagers (Archers)
20 Kriegsburg Crossbowmen
24 Kriegsburg Landwehr (Free Company)
5 Kriegsburg Schwartz Ritter (Pistoliers)

Bohiem Landwehr Brigade
Hauptman Fredrick von Loningbruck
24 Bohiem Halberdiers
24 Bohiem Swordsmen
12 Bohiem Handgunners*       

Combined Artillery Corps
Enginer Klaus Wiessmann
1 Great Cannon "Karl"
1 Great Cannon "Gustav"
1 Mortar "Dora"
1 Mortar "Thor"
1 Helblaster

*May be disbanded in the near future at my disgust at these damn plastic Handgunners.

In addition I have a newly purchased Warrior Priest of Ulric, a old Celestial Wizard, 8 Mercenary Knights that are the old Rieksguard Models (Herzog's Second Sons DOW name), 10 Mercenary Knights Volands lads that are my Mercenary General's Bodyguard, 24 Mercenary Pikemen that are raised from Kriegsburg but are often off serving in a campaigning army.

So any idea of what I can do with this to make it a viable stand alone list at 2000 to 2500 points.