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Messages - Muppet

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1
The Electors' Forum / Re: Scroll of Shielding - 15pts well spent?
« on: February 19, 2014, 01:42:17 PM »
This thread is still two years old...

But it is still a valid arcane item to use in the current edition of WHFB. Is it so that if you did not play this game two years ago, you are not allowed to bring up discussions "already handled"? Why start a new thread if there already is one with a lot of useful answers?

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The Electors' Forum / Re: Scroll of Shielding - 15pts well spent?
« on: February 16, 2014, 12:53:13 PM »

The Witch Hunter does have MR 2, which combined with the scroll would make give the unit a 2+ ward against wounds caused by spells. You still would need a wizard in the unit, though, as the scroll is an arcane item. While it does help against any spell causing wounds (and allowing ward saves), note that it does not work against hexes etc., and is of limited use against spells that RiP (like Curse of Years), that still would need to be dispelled during a subsequent magic phase.

The item description says that the target of the spell gets a 4+ ward, so a wizard is not needed in the unit targeted by the spell. But while writing this I guess you mean that the WH cannot have the scroll.

Anyway, scroll of shielding is great to save your Stank from that large Amber spear.

3
The Electors' Forum / Re: Challenge a chaos lord
« on: December 16, 2013, 08:32:02 PM »
I'd call this a success. How long did you hold them up for? Did you take out the lord or the BSB? Either one is worth the points. Holding up both is terrific.

If I remember correctly I killed the BSB on the third round of close combat and got killed by the lord on the second round of that duel, so five close combat rounds in total. It was a good trade points wise, but in the end I still lost the game. But it was sooo close that the lord also bit the dust.  :happy:

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The Electors' Forum / Re: Challenge a chaos lord
« on: December 16, 2013, 06:20:55 PM »
Full plate, shield, dragonhelm, obsidian blade, VHS.


5
The Electors' Forum / Re: Captasus vs pistoliers
« on: December 16, 2013, 08:01:52 AM »
Sorry for being out of subject, but which model do people use for the captasus? GW doesn't have a model for Empire captain on pegasus (not that I can find anyway) and the Bret is, well, not very Empire-look-a-like.

I have a metal pegasus I bought several years ago, but a knight model will not fit on it and not any other model I have either.

6
The Electors' Forum / Re: Challenge a chaos lord
« on: December 15, 2013, 07:06:03 PM »
Well, proved my build was not too shabby. Unfortunately he had a BSB on juggernaut as well in the same unit, but with a BSB with 1+ AS and 4+ ward and a lord with the same he was one successful ward save from my general killing both in duel.

Ideas for rematch: I had a 2+ AS, it would have been preferable to put him on a barded warhorse, that way I would have avoided their stomps also. Then I could also have had him with my Reiksguard knight unit with razor banner, so maybe obsidian blade would not be needed?

In hind sight, lore of life had been more useful than shadow, especially as I didn't get mindrazor.

7
Thanks. I got confused when the Juggernaut is referred to as a monstrous beast in the summary in the WoC AB.

8
In the FAQ it says that a rider of a monstrous cav model get its full number of attacks when making support attacks, up to a maximum of three. Furthermore, for monstrous beasts it says that monstrous beasts get their full number of attacks when making supporting attacks up to a maximum of three.

This then means that for example Skullcrushers in two ranks will get their full number of attacks from both riders and Juggernauts as supporting attacks, since Juggernauts are monstrous beasts. Is that correct? Or does the Juggernaut lose this rule as they are part of monstrous cav model?

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The Electors' Forum / Re: Challenge a chaos lord
« on: December 09, 2013, 06:46:01 AM »
Thank's for the input! I'm pretty sure he'll be in a unit of Skullcrushers. I'll probably have more units than him so I should be able to place my characters after him in which case I can put them so that no-one will have to move if a challenge is issued.

Realistically, it would be best to avoid the challenge, use chaff to redirect etc., but I've always liked the fluffy idea of the generals of the two armies meeting in a duel on the battle field. Although with regard to Empire characters and experience it almost never ends well for my general.  :blush:

10
The Electors' Forum / Challenge a chaos lord
« on: December 07, 2013, 08:07:39 PM »
I'm up for a game where I'll score extra campaign points if I kill the opponents general (chaos lord) with my general in a challenge. I know that the chaos lord will be mounted on a juggernaut but not what kind of gear he will have. I've been thinking about this and I think my biggest chance is to kit my general with barded warhorse, full plate, shield, VHS and obsidian blade. I'll try to snipe him with magic and cannons before we engage but as I see it this is the only way I can get to strike first, strike harder than him and ignore his 1+ AS.

I'm a bit stuck in my imagination here so I would appreciate your comments. One idea is also to put another character with the white cloak of Ulric next to my general to benefit from the -1 to hit. Is that possible by the way? Reading the rules I would say yes as long as the chaos lord is in base contact with both characters during the challenge.

11
Excellent...  :smile2:

12
The Electors' Forum / Combo Helblaster+engineer+Enchanted blades of Aiban
« on: November 25, 2013, 09:31:30 AM »
If Enchanted blades of Aiban (Lore of Metal) is cast on an engineer, will he benefit from the +1 to hit bonus if he transfers his BS to a Helblaster or should you cast the spell on the Helblaster? Or is it not possible to get this tasty combo?

13
The Electors' Forum / Re: BRB p.18 There's too many of them rule
« on: November 25, 2013, 06:35:00 AM »
I think that a lot of my confusion here was due to me and my friends playing very soft and friendly games. Then the rules are of course important but maybe we do not pay too much attention to detail. Now I have joined a club and entered a yearlong campaign and although the people I play with there seems friendly enough, I felt I needed to get the rules straight.  :smile2:

14
The Electors' Forum / Re: BRB p.18 There's too many of them rule
« on: November 24, 2013, 01:30:47 PM »
Ok, thanks. Reading the rule with your remarks (and reading other parts of the BRB more closely) it made more sense.

15
The Electors' Forum / BRB p.18 There's too many of them rule
« on: November 24, 2013, 11:53:56 AM »
The rule in the subject seems rather strange or pointless to me. In the example they give in the BRB an unit of HE archers declare three different charge reactions to three different charges they face. But since it is the person declaring the charges that chooses the order in which the charging units move it will only play to the charges advantage. If they want the HE unit to flee they will charge first with the unit where this charge reaction was chosen. If they want combat they will charge first with the unit where the charge reaction was hold. In any case they will never stand and shoot since they cannot stand and shoot if they are fleeing nor if they are tied up in close combat.

Also, if they first charge with the unit so that the HE unit flee, will the two other charges cause the HE unit to flee twice more, even though they had chosen different charge reactions towards them, making them a grand total of 6D6 inches flee movement? Or if the first flee movement takes the HE unit out of possible charge range, will they not flee again since the charge cannot be completed? I cannot find in the BRB anything about that a unit only can flee once.

Maybe not so clearly explained, hope you understand anyway.

16
The Parade Ground / Re: List for campaign with some special rules
« on: November 06, 2013, 08:14:01 AM »
Thanks for the advice! I'll take a bunch of handgunners then. The Greatswords are unfortunately work-in-progress, so maybe next time.

I've never played this guy before, it is a new club for me, so I have no idea what to expect. I have just assumed that except for he dragon he will have what most other HE guys have, i.e. Swordmasters and/or White Lions, Silverhelms, chariots and really heavy magic... Actually, the Swordmasters are the ones that scares me the most due to the many attacks. Need to weaken them before they get into combat which is the main reason I have a mortar in the list. Even with S2 it should kill off a few. Also nice to drop on the head of the dragon if possible.

17
The Parade Ground / List for campaign with some special rules
« on: November 05, 2013, 09:39:22 AM »
Hi!

I'm going to play a 2500 p battle versus HE in a campaign with some special rules. In this battle the HE will have a lord on a dragon (probably the biggest one) which will have a 4+ ward against shooting from warmachines. Also, the terrain will be muddy, so all units using swiftstride will have to pass a dangerous terrain test.

My list looks as below, see tactic comments also.The BSB is kitted to survive but also be able to deal some damage if he should get into a challenge. If you have any advice, please speak up! :-)

The general goes with the IC knights, flanking.

The engineer will stand between the mortar and the helblaster, using him to bombard Swordmasters or lending his BS to the helblaster to shoot the dragon out of the sky.

The cannon targets chariots or bolt throwers.

Both infantry blocks will be in bus formation to get steadfast as long as possible if they get into battle.

The Stank will try to get a charge on the dragon, but he will probably be able to avoid that. Otherwise it will support the infantry blocks and have the same targets as the cannon.

The BSB, captain, wizards and priest will be divided between the infantry blocks.

The pistoliers will harass and redirect, hopefully be able to get behind his lines to pick on any warmachines.



Total  2496 pts

Lords

Battle Wizard Lord, lev 4, lore of life, dispell scroll (225 pts)

General of the Empire, full plate armour, shield, barded warhorse, ogre blade (171 pts)
 

Heroes

Battle Wizard, lev 2, Lore of light

Captain of the Empire, BSB, full plate armour, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, sword of might (141 pts)

Captain of the Empire, GW, full plate armour (72 pts)

Master Engineer (65 pts)

Warrior Priest, GW, heavy armour (72 pts)


Core

12 Knightly Orders IC, FC, Ranger banner (380 pts)

38 Swordsmen , FC (296 pts)

39 Spearmen, shields, FC (234 pts)

Special

Great Cannon (120 pts)

Mortar (100 pts)

5 Pistoliers, Musician, Champion with repeater pistol (120 pts)

Rare

Helblaster Volley Gun (120 pts)

Steam Tank (250 pts)



18
Core / Re: Knights with great weapons
« on: November 17, 2012, 03:25:20 PM »
Oh, thanks! Missed that. Seems to be a lot of opinions...

19
Core / Knights with great weapons
« on: November 17, 2012, 12:27:47 PM »
Hi everyone,

My general experience with my knights is that they can be effective in the round they charge but in the following turns they are really not achieving much. This also means that if they get charged they are usually screwed. Well, they have some good staying power but they will almost never beat an enemy unless they get serious help. In my opinion this is purely due to that they kill very few enemies at S3.

I have been thinking about building a 12 knight unit with great weapons. In 7th edition rules you did not benefit from +2S when on horse back, but that has changed in the 8th edition rules. So they will loose 1+ Sv for 2+ Sv, but I think that the benefit of being S5 will make a difference. I am not concerned of ASL as at I3 thay will usually strike last anyway.

I am not really looking for advice here, I will build the unit anyway for the fun of it, but I was wondering if anyone tried it out in the field and what the experience is?

20
I must say that I am not very pleased with the new book. In my opinion there a lot of changes that are not beneficial to the Empire.

1. Cost of core troops is unreasonable. Increase cost of Swordsmen even though they have cut their initiative from 4 to 3? Not cool... Chaos marauders with shield and light armour is one point cheaper and with I 4???

2. The warrior priests are cheaper, yes, but they lost the "unbreakable" prayer, which I think was the most useful one. Also, Armour of contempt (now Shield of faith) is reduced from 4+ to 5+ and is only for close combat. Soulfire is now base contact and not D6 S4 hits (per unit in touch that was) and amour saves are allowed unless undead, etc., but I admit the added “flaming attacks” is nice. I would rather pay the 90 p to get the old priest back though.

3. Greatswords are still not good. Stubborn is all fine, but they will be sorely whipped as usual since their stats are still really mediocre. Horribly overpriced in my view. Compare for example with Chaos warriors at an expensive 15 p but with a really awesome stat line (WS 5, S 4, T 4, A 2, 4+ armour save) and with a load of upgrade choices.

4. Steamtank I am not sure how the new rules will turn out. In general I am not fond of the 8th edition since I think it is simplified and there is too much randomness to it. Roll for charge distance, roll for power dice, roll for this, roll for that. What happened to skill and tactics? Out the window it seems. And here it comes for the Steamtank as well. In earlier versions it was at least up to you if you wanted to screw it up or not. But honestly, 250 p for a Steamtank or 235 p for a Hell pit abomination (250 p with magic resistance), what would you choose? Not the Steamtank I think.

5. Flagellants… So, they got WS 3, but they lost the “eternal frenzy”. WS 3 instead of WS 2 will only help when fighting troops with WS 5 or higher and Flagellants will not have a chance against such units anyway.  Another overpriced Empire unit that lost its purpose in 8th edition.

6. A lascannon and a storm generator? Which at that are ugly models? Give me a break… There is already a great cannon for sniping, especially when you do not have to guess the range anymore.

7. Grandpa knight is even more expensive than before, and now he does not even come fully armed. I especially enjoyed him with Laurels of victory in combo with +1 to hit weapon against undead (very expensive though). Now he has gone from “Sometimes fun to have” to “Stay in the box”.

8. Mortar S 2 will render it rather useless. A hefty price increase would have hurt less.

I will stop here. On the bright side, Demigryph knights might be useful as something to counter all the super monsters popping up in all the other armies. The counter charge of the detachment will still be in the side of the enemy unit, at least if the detachment has been level with the parent unit when it got charged. On the other hand, since disruption does not affect the steadfast rule I see little use for close combat detachments. The Witch hunters’ magic resistance might be useful even though the stats are rather poor, but so are most mages also.

Now I have to admit I have not yet played with the new army list, so we will see how it turns out. My army has at least increased in point value, although I see that more like the IT bubble about to burst in my face.

21
OK, so I can drop either one pistolier or two handgunners (cannot decide which right now), drop the detachment and turn the swordsmen 25 strong. That would give me enough points for one more IC knight and pistol to the captasus. Good idea to split the handgunners, will do that. I'll try the flaggelants in two units also. Thanks!

22
The Parade Ground / Re: 2250 Tournament list
« on: March 17, 2010, 08:01:38 PM »
Göteborg, eh? A little bit too far from Sandviken to just drop by and have a look. Hope you will squeeze your way into the tournament! (If you do it would be fun if you told us how you fared.)

23
The Parade Ground / Friendly games vs. WoC, HE, Skaven or VC @ 2000 p
« on: March 17, 2010, 07:45:51 PM »
Hello everyone,

I am heading for a nice weekend with some old friends, good food, good beer and a high focus on WHFB. I have been trying to put together a list that will work decently against any of the above opposition, as if heading for a tournament. I will give you the list below and also what else I have that I can swap things for. Thankful for suggestions, comments and the like.

Characters
Arch Lector, great weapon, AoMI, VHS                                                                             186
Wizard lev, 2, rod of power                                                                                              130
Warrior priest, barded warhorse, heavy armour, hammer of might, enchanted shield    138
Captain, pegasus, full plate, shield, lance, doomfire ring                                                 144

Core
19 spearmen, shield, FC + 9 swordsmen det                                                                   188
19 swordsmen, FC                                                                                                            139
5 knights, musician                                                                                                           123
17 handgunner, marksman w HLR                                                                                    161
20 flagellants                                                                                                                    200

Special
5 knights, IC, FC                                                                                                               170
6 pistoliers, musician, outrider w repeater pistol                                                              132
1 mortar                                                                                                                             75
1 great cannon                                                                                                                 100

Rare
Helblaster                                                                                                                         110

                                                                                                                           SUM      1996

What I can play around with with is

2 extra knights
7 swordsmen (can form a 19 unit with FC if the detachment above is removed)
8 free company (so detachment only)
20 greatswords w FC
1 great cannon
almost any combination of character choices (except no war altar, monstrous creatures or mounted wizard)

The idea is to put the WP with the IC knights to have a fast unit with a good punch, the other knights will bait and support. The AL goes with the swordsmen and the wizard goes with the more defensive spearmen. The captasus will just fly around, irritate, march block and help out wherever he can. The great cannon is of course better than the mortar against heavy armies like WoC, but the mortar is priceless against weak units like Skaven. The swordsmen detachment can of course go with the swordsmen unit instead.

Well, that was some of my thoughts. How about you sharing yours?

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The Parade Ground / Re: 2250 Tournament list
« on: March 17, 2010, 05:08:41 PM »
Hej Kalle,

The pistoliers (and any other stuff using multiple shots) will get a -1 to hit modifier (p. 55 in the rule book).

The Captasus can fire his pistol in the shooting phase and then use his doomfire ring in the magic phase. Good to keep in mind is that your Captasus is moved like monster, thus he needs to see where he is aiming his pistol. The doomfire ring though fires in any direction so you can shoot behind you if you like.

By the way, where is the tournament and when?

Regards

Muppet

25
The Parade Ground / Re: Army, to be listed in the future...
« on: February 15, 2010, 08:07:34 PM »
All right, thanks for the comments! I like the idea with crossbowmen instead of more handgunners. More core troops to be painted then also. I like the idea with more meaty infantry blocks. Will last a little bit longer. Can't say I like the idea of painting them though...   :icon_eek:  :blush:

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