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Watchtower continued:  Edit:  I think he had 6 Maneaters.  Also a Thundertusk deployed behind Bulls.



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This is taken after my first movement phase.
He deployed:  Iron Blaster (out of pic), Bulls w/Beast Wiz and Firebelly followed by Thundertusk, Ironguts w/BSB and Slaughtermaster, Mournefangs, Ironblaster
I moved the Flagellants towards the tower, my STank aimed at either MI block, Knights would hit the other....

So shooting:  Hit the IB with cannon, rolled 1 to wound.  STank cannon hits Ogre Bulls and bounces into Thundertusk, rolls one to wound.  Volley gun rolled 10x3 shots, 5's to hit, ended up with 9 wounds, he blows his LD, makes his gleaming pendant reroll.
Magic:  Lascannon Luminark hits Ironblaster, rolls one to wound.  Buff FtS on Flaggies.

Ogre's turn:
Hits the STank with an Ironblaster, does 6 wounds .  Hits the Volley Gun, dead.  Moves the Mournefangs up to stop the Flagellants from getting into the Tower.
Magic:  Bubble Regen, IF, all his casters take a wound.


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So:
I charge with War Altar and Flagellent Horde into the Mournefangs!  Woot, love this! (think this pic is after his turn 2 move!)


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Shooting, Cannon Misfires and explodes.


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So Magic and combat:  I drain him of his DD and cast Soulfire, he elects to scroll it (good call).  So after all the attacks, re-rolls from my T7 Flagellants I have 9 unsaved wounds, before he rolls Regeneration.  So he picks up 9 dice, rolls them, saves 8 of 9.....
I win combat by only 3, he fails his first roll (of course), makes his re-roll on a 6 (of course).  Game Over, no way will S3 Flagellants grind down AS2 Mournefangs.....



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Similar thing happened over here, kind of rubber lance syndrome, won by 3, made his reroll and we stuck all game long grinding away...

Final tally:  Ogres win on turn 4 (he rolled a 6) with his Guts in the Tower.  Unit of 5 Knights killed the other IB with a panic rundown and the Swordsmen + Wizard (S6 Awakening of the Woods) finished off the Maneaters.

So 2-1 at the end of day 1.  As amazingly lucky I got in game 2 vs the Double Slann, it completely flipped in game 3.
Double Slann list was on Table 2 at the end and this Ogre list was on Table 1, ended up Best General going 5-0.

Thoughts so far?

Quote from: Noght on May 21, 2013, 11:05:32 PM

By the way, a single level 4 is always better than to level 2's.

Better at what? Not at potentially channeling. Not at providing a variety of spells from different lores. And not at providing two arcane items.

Always better at Casting and Dispelling.....

Now you're setting conditions? 

I'll echo Zif here...

I don't get what point you're trying to make.

Steve, I don't think he had anything that could deploy in the building.  Isn't it core infantry (not montrous infantry)?

Sounds like you had a good time.  I enjoyed myself too, except for the hotel.  Three hotels were full, stayed at the King's Hotel.  Place should be nuked, and then the ruins nuked again, just in case.  I would have felt better sleeping in a park.

Jeff

He didn't but I would have deployed the Swordsmen.  I had Flesh to Stone to stiffen them up.  Then swapped in the unbreakable Flagellants, game over.....

Next up:  Ogres in Watchtower!  Perfect!  Flagellents wreck Bulls and Ironguts!

His list:
Slaughtermaster w/Scroll
Firebelly
Lvl 1 Beast w/Hellheart
2 Ironblasters
3 Saberblockers
4 Mournfangs
5 Maneaters w/Scout, Swiftstride
8 Bulls
8 Ironguts

Stay tuned:

Deployment, he won Tower Roll, dangit, elected to not deploy a unit into the Tower....


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The OP stated that he was having trouble with magical defense. He posted his current build in hopes that someone on these forums would be able to help him tweak it. The advice he received is that he did not have a caster high enough in level to provide respectable magical defense. He was advised to make room for a level 4 caster and a dispel scroll. If the OP took away that trading out his current build for one that allows him to take a level 4 caster with a dispel scroll would provide him with proper magical defense, then he was mislead. As I stated earlier, having a high level caster does not add to one's magical defense; dispel dice are what add to one's magical defense. At best having a level 4 on the field evens the levels, but it does nothing to close the power dice to dispel dice gap. Lesser wizards with more dispel dice are better at achieving magical defense than a level 4 wizard with less dispel dice.

As many have been keen to point out, there is no optimal way for Empire armies to gain the necessary, additional dispel dice that would allow us better magical defense. As such, most of us bring a level 4 caster to the battle field, equip that wizard or another with a dispel scroll, and call it magical defense; it is not. We do not bring that build for it's magical defense. We bring it because of the optimal casting phase it provides us with while additionally allowing us to wash levels with our opponent during his magic phase.

How we defend against magic is by prioritizing the spells we allow to get through based upon the current situation as well as those situations we expect to unfold in the near future. This information was provided to the OP, and it is necessary that the OP understands that this is how we deal with enemy magic in the Empire and not by trying to nullify it.

Sorry, this is just wrong.  The 8th edition magic rules create a disparity between PD and DD.  It's a fact, ceding your opponent an additional +3 to his casting is folly, and essentially giving him an additional power dice (pointed out by multiple posters). 

The only thing is a Luminark for +1 DD for 120 points, sub-optimal.  You could buy 20 more Halberdiers and just just the MM go off.  The days of +2 DD for an Arch Lector and an ironclad Magic defense is over.

Buy additional WP for channelling rather than Battle Wizards if you desire.

Pegasus come on 40mm bases.  The old Marauder Pegasus came on a 50 mm.

You could use a Bretonnian Pegasus......

The magic phase already gives an advantage to the casting player. 

Excellent stuff...

You need a level 4 and a dispel scroll just so you don't get completely dominated in the magic phase.

This is the truth! 

Quick update, out of town until tomorrow, then I'll add pics.

3000 Meeting Engagement vs Lizardmen.

His List (Domus)
Light Slann, Loremaster, Bonus dice cheese
Death Slann BSB, Calming cheese, Bonus dice Chesse
2 Scar Vets on Cold Ones
2 Skink Priests, one with scroll and one with scroll/cube end magic phase cheese.
Saurus Block
Skink/Krox Block
3 each:  Chameleons, javelin skinks, blowgun skinks
2 each of 3 Salamanders
3 Pteradon

I won deploy roll.  Started the game with Outriders, Pistoliers, Volley Gun, IC Knights and Lvl 4 off the board.   
If there ever was a time for chaff clearers to be deployed....


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Deployment of remaining Empire Troops (I elected to deploy around the MR2 Terrain in case he went first while my LVL 4  + scroll was off the table).  Of course the Forest is a Venom Thicket!  So the STank, Luminark and Swordsmen deployed around the MR2, hoping for the first turn.


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End of Turn 2:
Notice the Fence near his Saurus Block?  It was "L" shaped.  He deployed both his Slann and one Scar-Vet in that unit.  On turn 1, I used my Cannon to destroy the fence line, 1 steam point cannon hit his Death Slann, who failed a LOS, and then blew a 4+ Ward, followed by 5 wounds!  Woot!



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He charged his Skink/Krox block into the STank and we just stuck there for most of the game.....



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The IC Knights, after surviving 5 of 6 Salamander breath weapons, manage to send the Salamanders fleeing and then Rear charge a unit of Camo Skinks (who killed the Pistoliers on Turn 1).  Volley Gun and Cannon kill most of the Pteradons and a unit of Camo Skinks.



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Pic at end of Turn 4:  STank gets charged by Scar Vet on Turn 3, and overruns into Luminark (dead in this pic), who failed to defeat Light enhanced Skinks.  Like the first game, the Flagellants killed exactly one unit of Skinks.

Game ended due to time, Empire Win by about 500 points.  I expect that if it went on, the LM would have one but repeated Flees and rallyies take lots of time.  A LM magic phase goes on for a bit to.  My opponent was great, he knows he played too slow (I did not!).

So 2-0 and facing Ogres in Watchtower next game!

 

Wacky.  I thought the Greenskins would roll with the GS starting off the board....

Thanks guys!

Weirdest game ever.   

Nicely done guys.

Quick question because I know this issue is going to eventually come up in the Tactica Forum's most recent Tactical Exposition Game (TEG) 2:

If a unit that is within 6 inches of an Altar of Khaine or a Tower of Blood (that grants Frenzy) loses combat:

--does it lose Frenzy until it leaves the area and comes back?
--or does the bubble grant perma-Frenzy as long as units remain in the vicinity?

I would treat it as the BRB. As long as the combat is ongoing, and you've lost once, you'd lose frenzy.  If there is a new combat it all resets (think hatred).

So did GW have any real design input to the Chaos Dwarf rules or did they basically tell the lads over a Forge World to have at it and let them run wild?

Go wild methinks.  Even GW wouldn't create a Monster with Immune to Warhammer special rule.