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Messages - Holy Hand Grenade

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1
The Tactica Board / Re: Ideas for the next online battle
« on: April 06, 2014, 07:01:48 PM »
( I was just wondering why the TEG thing died out)
HHG took a break from it while there was an attempt to run a 10k Empire vs WoC.  He hasn't been online in over a month, so there hasn't been much discussion regarding it until I started this thread.

Carmaul-  awesome to see other people getting energized about TDGs/TEGs.

I needed a break.  Plus, I have been gone overseas for a bit.  Happens a lot when you are in the military.

Let me know if you need any assistance.  When you are done with this one, I plan to fire up another one.

 :::cheers:::
HHG


I have generated some terrain while I wait for the two sides to finalize their armies.  What is the easiest dice program?  I know you have tried at least two online ones plus just rolling them in person.

The easiest is Dicelog.  Once you get an account, you can start a log for the battle and it keeps a running tab.  However, the dice sometimes will run in batches and it can effect the battle.

What I use now is a truly random roller from random.org.  It won't keep a log for you, but there are many different ways you could write down and keep track of the results.  I created a webpage and copied the dice icons over to it after I rolled so people could visually see what happened with each roll.

So, to answer your question, go with Dicelog for the easy solution, or random.org for more difficult, but more random results.

 :::cheers:::
HHG

2
The Tactica Board / Re: Tactica: The Griffon Formation
« on: April 06, 2014, 02:31:02 PM »
Long time no see HHG. When will be new TGD? I do miss them.


Cheers

I needed a little breather.  Plus, I was deployed overseas for a bit.

It looks like Carmaul has started a nice small battle.  I will crank up another TEG or TDG when he is done.

 :::cheers:::
HHG

3
The Tactica Board / Re: Ideas for the next online battle
« on: April 06, 2014, 02:27:59 PM »
( I was just wondering why the TEG thing died out)
HHG took a break from it while there was an attempt to run a 10k Empire vs WoC.  He hasn't been online in over a month, so there hasn't been much discussion regarding it until I started this thread.

Carmaul-  awesome to see other people getting energized about TDGs/TEGs.

I needed a break.  Plus, I have been gone overseas for a bit.  Happens a lot when you are in the military.

Let me know if you need any assistance.  When you are done with this one, I plan to fire up another one.

 :::cheers:::
HHG

4
The Tactica Board / Re: Tactica: The Griffon Formation
« on: January 20, 2014, 04:58:39 PM »
Just wanted to put an appreciation shout-out here for the Griffon Formation!

This weekend I played with 4 other friends in a friendly tournament, 3 games each. I used an 'Inverted Griffon Formation' (IGF) list adapted to my own tastes, and I came first place with 3 straight wins! I played against High Elves, Dark Elves and Empire, the final 2 games being 20-0 and 18-2! Each game took 2-3 hours which was exhausting, but I think a big reason for this was because I'm still very green and therefore sometimes spent too long mulling over tactical decisions.

The main thing I learned from the battles was that tactical use of chaff troops for controlling the battlefield is king. This is exactly where the IGF came in handy, for although there were times when I did not use the detachments in quite the same way HHG suggests, it gave me lots of small detachments to play with and send here and there to distract and divert, many times getting in the way of my enemies charging key units at key moments.

When I first started getting into Warhammer with Empire, the first list I wrote was a variation of the IGF and I won that one too! I then tried some different lists without any IGF, and lost almost all of them... then as soon as I go back to IGF, straight wins! Just goes to show that using detachments is such a powerful tactic.


I'll report back more in future should I have more success :)

Glad to hear about your success.

I have played so many different battles with Griffon-like formations-  and I have found there is no set way to run them.  What they really do is give you lots of flexibility.

Many forum members have said that the game is won in the movement phase.  Of course your list has to be decent and your rolls not too sucky, but I do believe that the best chance our humans have against all the nasties out there is to dictate as much as possible what happens, when.

Good luck in your future battles!

 :::cheers:::
HHG

5
The Tactica Board / Re: Grand Battle 10k: Warriors of Chaos Tactical Thread
« on: November 07, 2013, 01:41:22 AM »
Do we have to Vanguard before we see the final layout?

If so, probably only worthwhile in cases where we get out if the way of slower units.

6
What do you think about this Chaos?

Demon Prince (L4 death)
Spirit Leech
Soulblight
Fate of Bjuna
Purple Sun of Xereus

Chaos Sorcerer Lord (L4 Metal)
Searing Doom
Enchanted Blades of Aiban
Glittering Robe
Final Transmutation

Chaos Sorcerer (L2 Shadow+Arcane)
Miasma
Enfeebling foe
Penumbral Pendulum

7

Done, where does he get his third spell from?

Arcane familiar

8
Chaos Shadow Sorc has 3 spells.  Please roll one more for us.

9



We know that the altar (top left), 2 central towers, and bottom-right village will be the primary objectives.


A few thoughts-  with so many objectives, I think we concentrate on a bundle of them that we can secure-  instead of trying to hold everything on the board.

So when I look at the easiest objectives to ignore-  it would have to be either the altar top left or the village far right.  The two central towers are near the only Chaos specific objective that is land-based-  the bridge.  So we need to secure the towers, squash the Empire near the bridge, and take it too.  Since the river is in our way, this will likely be a two-pronged attack with one force on each side of the river.

So that leaves a third force we could create-  does it hold the altar or push to the village?  The simplest answer is to hold the altar because it is on our side.  But because we are Chaos, I think we could hold it simply by destroying every Empire unit on that side of the river as we push to the bridge.

So my recommendation is:

--Our center army rolls towards the towers and the bridge, with the bulk of the main force on the east side of the river to hold off the Empire coming from the east
--Our heavy hitting shock troops start in the west, swoop around the left flank, destroying all Empire units as it pushes east to the bridge.
--We put token forces in the far east just to harass, protect the flank of the main force, etc. 
--My Vanguard can be spread out anywhere, depending on where you need speed, diverting or Warmachine hunting
--I think killing the Empire General is probably doable
--I think destroying all the Steam Tanks would be a bonus, but is going to be difficult, and shouldn't distract us from completing our other missions

 :::cheers:::
HHG

10
What are our specific Chaos objectives?

I think between that and the battle objectives, is where the answer lies.

11
The Tactica Board / Re: TEG6: Lizardmen Tactical Thread
« on: October 17, 2013, 12:15:53 PM »
Thanks for the post Sammay.

I agree, the list would have a difficult time with your list.  The key would be maximizing the diverters to block more than one cav unit.  Your vulnerability is getting bunched up.  I would also be aggressive with my combat blocks-  they can dish out some damage.

The Captasus would have to be priority target #1.  I have gotten pretty adept at shielding the Slaan with other units to avoid flier charges and have never had a problem.  Your 3 Capt would be the most difficult test though!

I was tempted all along to go with Metal, but didn't want to appear to be designing the list for Empire.  Plague of Rust and Enchanted Blades would go a long way in maximizing the Poison in the list, along with Searing Doom for nukes.  My old Lizzie list years ago was built like this.  Add in some Chamo Skinks and it gets nasty quick!

I think this could be a future battle in the making once we are done with the other projects we have on the slate!

HHG

12
The Tactica Board / Re: Empire on a Grand Scale
« on: October 16, 2013, 10:13:20 PM »
Looking at the massive board, I am assuming the 3 map sections are 5 squares by 5 squares?

13
Yes, DH was for a Dragon Helm.  You can drop it or give him something else if need be-  I was just trying to cheaply increase his protection.

I agree-  the level 2 will benefit the most from the arcane fam.

At work, so I am not sure why the points are off. I made the Exalted running with the Sorc a PSB-  that might be it.


14
Zif-  you didn't pull my latest list for the Van.

6x 5 Slaan Mar Horsemen with Flails & Javs and Musicians. 

Chaos Sorc, Lvl 2 Shadow.  DH, Opal Amulet, Ruby Ring, Chaos Familiar, Steed of Slaanesh
Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan
10 Hellstriders, FC

Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan, Allure of Slaanesh
10 Hellstriders, FC

Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan, Terrifying Mask
10 Hellstriders, FC

Heroes: 734
Core:     600
Special:  660
Total:  1994

No duplicate Flaming Breath with this. 

Yeah, the Hellstriders are going to get nastier and nastier-  especially with the Exalted Hero in each one killing humans left and right.

They come with Spears and Shields already.  So-  Str4 on the charge and a 5+ AS all the time.

15
Shock Troops - 3500 points

Very, very nasty.   :evil:

I like it.

Krokz-  what do you think about Tzeentch & Trolls for the mainline?  Maybe some Nurgle too...

16
Hm... that Winds of Magic thing changes my perspective on my list big time. I'm still going to go for some of the things I had planned, but a bit of editing is in order.

We need at least one Magic user in each board section.  Most likely that will be a 2x Lvl4 and 1x Lvl2.

If my Lvl4 in the Van is jacking everything up, I can go with a Lvl2 Shadow Sorc and not take anything in the Lord category. 

If I give him Arcane Familiar and the Ruby Ring, that will give him 3x Shadow spells and a nuke.  He should be able to at least hold his own in a map section.

Something like:

6x 5 Slaan Mar Horsemen with Flails & Javs and Musicians. 

Chaos Sorc, Lvl 2 Shadow.  DH, Opal Amulet, Ruby Ring, Chaos Familiar, Steed of Slaanesh
Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan
10 Hellstriders, FC

Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan, Allure of Slaanesh
10 Hellstriders, FC

Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan, Terrifying Mask
10 Hellstriders, FC

Heroes: 734
Core:     600
Special:  660
Total:  1994

----------------------------

Rework your "magic" with your point totals Rothgar.

Remember-  my Van will likely be spread out over several map boards-  you two will not have to go overboard trying to buy your own diverters.

 :::cheers:::
HHG

17
The Tactica Board / Re: Empire on a Grand Scale
« on: October 14, 2013, 12:33:30 AM »
Additionally, Forumite and I look to be holding down the Empire side as all other voices seem to have gone quiet within our tactical forum. I don't know if either of us had initially intended on taking the lead for the Empire, but I think we're probably okay heading things up. We will, however, need probably one more day to sort things out. Apologies if we seem to be taking too long.

Don't sweat it-  we aren't close on our side either.  Still narrowing down the list.

Plus-  I think Commandant has some more game setup stuff too.

18
I am done with what I want.  Rothgar-  looks like it is all you at the moment.

19
How do you want to run your DP, Rothgar?

20
The Tactica Board / Re: Empire on a Grand Scale
« on: October 13, 2013, 12:52:56 AM »
The situation that can arise is that you are targeted by a spell from outside your own section, can you dispel it from your own section, or do you have to do it from the origin section?

Based on what I proposed above, the dispel always comes from the original section, regardless of where the target is.

21
A fair point indeed, HHG. I think this is why I am considering going all-mounted, because it replaces one bulky element (the Halberdier Horde) for a less-bulky one (Inner Circle Knights), and it gives the list more overall speed/repositioning ability.

Yep-  that is surely another option for you.  It fits well with the rest of your army too!  Would you stick with Life?

22
The Tactica Board / Re: Empire on a Grand Scale
« on: October 12, 2013, 07:23:03 PM »
I think the easiest way to go is to keep everything by section.

Dice generation is by board section.

Wizards can only dispel in their board section-  either by dice or Scroll.


23
Well two level 4s are enough. Monster side will probably take DP prince so one of our side needs another lvl4 (preferably with Dispel scroll!). Either you take Slaanesh or I take Nurgle. If you take Slaanesh then my Lord section has room for Disco cheez lord.

Up to Zif, but I was thinking if I took a Lvl4 Slaanesh, you could take a Lvl4 with Dispel Scroll and get Nurgle or a Tzeentch with Metal.

That frees up Rothgar for a Khorne DP, or a DP with only a few magic levels.

Of course, I can always go back and swap my Sorc back to a Chaos Lord if we want to go a different direction with magic.

24
A few After Action comments from me:

On the Lizzie list:

I had a lot of fun with it.  The Skinks leadership sucks...we had to pay attention to getting the Skinks in the right place to divert, but not cause panic tests to others.  We took a phased approach-  several waves of Skinks is better than trying to get them all out front to start.  Slaan placement was also key in this-  he needed to be in the center near the action.  3 dice Ldr 9 rerollable-  it is hard to fail.  The Lizzies even made a couple improbable tests during the battle-  3 dice just opens up a "chance" to make things.

I mentioned it in the Lizard thread, but I really missed using some fliers in this list.  The Sallies performed wonders but it would have been nice to have 2 Chiefs on Terradons. 

I liked having the Slaan running around solo.  It freed up the TG to do their thing, and Ethereal definitely came into play this battle. The Slaan is vulnerable to characteristic tests...but that doesn't change if you put him in a block of TG.  Actually, it even makes spells like Dwellers that much nastier-  not only does the opponent get a shot at the Slaan, but the TG could lose 33%.  The old Slaan had some protection from this by having the ability to negate rolls of 6s on powerdice from Wizs in 24 inch range, but the new one doesn't have that luxury.

Tett was fun to play with but I don't think I am going to use him in the future.  I normally shy away from Special Characters so my lists can be used in any environment.  If I got too used to Tett, I would miss not having him and wouldn't be finding other ways to fill his gap.  For his points, I think I am going to add some more Krox and maybe change the two scroll caddies to Heavens.

The Battle:

As for the battle, I think if we ran similar lists against each other again it would be a lot tougher for the Lizzies.  Cannons aren't always reliable, but when you have 4 of them, it is rare to have such low T1 and T2 effectiveness (although I just played a game last night against my son's new Dark Elf army and both cannons blew themselves up on T1 and T3!  It happens).  I never expected the Krox to live through the game...but the Lizzies got way more mileage out of them then we should have.

The Haunted Mansion and Altar on the edges severely limited the Lizzie ability to get Skinks into the backfield.  We smartly avoided the Haunted Mansion on the right-  especially after seeing what it did to the Empire Knights.  The Altar didn't really come into play too much but it did get in the way.

It has already been mentioned-  but I think a key takeaway for Empire is giving STanks the necessary breathing room to operate.  Running two STank side by side is powerful-  but they can't get in each other's way.  Something I noticed Rothgar while I was moving your units around on the battlefield-  your list may require more space than the board allows.  What I mean by that-  the Knights, Demis, and STanks need room to roam and have to leave room for the hoard and cannon firing lanes.  Things can get bunched up quickly.  The Knights that got jammed by the Mansion in the east did so because they couldn't squeeze in next to the Demis.  Even if they hadn't-  Lizzies could have jammed them up with one diverter-  getting a two for one bang for our points.

Some things to think about-  it might be more effective to run one block of 5,6, or 8 Demis than two units of 4.  Another option is to drop the vanilla Knights and use Huntsmen for your cavalry deep diverting support.  I have tried this with both my Griffon List and all-Cav list and it works well.  This allows you on your first turn to move full speed ahead with the Demis and block/divert what you want with the Huntsmen Scouts.

In Summary:

I had an absolute blast in this TEG.  As usual, Rothgar was an awesome opponent. 

I find it kind of interesting that the "finesse" armies of the last 3 TEGs have pulled out victories.  Part of their success is due to a group of collective minds using all their tricks and schemes to best effect in a TEG-  but I think talented Generals can use these types of lists to great effect.  The difficult task with them is that the margin of error is really low-  one mistake and the whole house can come crashing down (like what almost happened in this TEG when I didn't block the Stank).

I think Empire has all the tools to deal with the new Lizardmen book.  Lizzies have some cool units and abilities, but I don't see them as a major obstacle for a balanced, well-played Empire army.  If they go monster-heavy, our cannons will drop them.  If they troop-up on Saurus, our less-expensive troops can win the war of attrition.  Lizzies will also have a hard time with a 1+ AS spam unless they design their army to deal with it.

Keep the After Action comments coming in.  The norm is for people to shift their attention elsewhere when a game is done-  but these comments are on of the most important parts of a TDG/TEG!  Give us your words of wisdom.

 :::cheers:::
HHG

25
For calculation purposes, I can have 500-600 points in Core out of my 2000 for the Van.   :icon_cool:

Not sure what Lvl4s we want...but I could easily swap out the Chaos Lord I was planning for a Lvl4 Slaanesh Sorc.  If he gets in the backfield, Cac Choir is going to jack up some STank and Arty.

---------------------

EDIT:

Latest Slaan Van build.  Comes out to 2001 points.

6x 5 Slaan Mar Horsemen with Flails & Javs and Musicians.  Eats up a nice 600 points of our Core.  Krokz-  all you need to fill is 1900 more points of Core.

Chaos Sorc Lord, Lvl 4 Slaanesh on Steed of Slaan.  Sword of Anti-Heroes, DH, Skull of Katam, Talismen of Pres.  Gifts:  Allure of Slaan, Flaming Breath
10 Hellstriders, FC

Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan
10 Hellstriders, FC

Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Steed of Slaan
10 Hellstriders, FC

Lord:     445
Heroes: 296
Core:     600
Special:  660
Total:  2001

----------------------------

I tried to avoid using magic items/gifts that I know could be used by others-  Charmed Shield, DBG, Soul Feeder, Scaly Skin, etc.  Just let me know if I used anything that you want to put in one of your kits.

What this Van gives us is lots of Panic-free Vanguard units.  The 3 Hellstriders with Characters give us a deep strike capability that Empire will not be able to ignore.

I envision these units being spread out between 2 or 3 map boards to run interference for other forces.  Another option is to split me to both flanks.  I expect my forces to be some of the first to die-  but if they do their job right your hammers are going to come slamming in.

If we are loading up on Trolls, I think a DP is in order.  He can chill behind some Trolls while Empire tries to lob multiple cannonballs through our Regen screen.
 :evil:

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