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WHFB The Electors' Forum / Updates?
« on: April 23, 2014, 09:47:29 PM »
Are the rule updates on the new website... if so how do you access them?

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Spears and Shields
« on: March 17, 2014, 05:55:28 AM »
I know units with spears cannot parry, but where does it say units with spears don't get to add +1 to their armor saves?

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: Campaign
« on: March 12, 2014, 09:41:21 PM »
thanks for your comments... hadn't really thought that part out... but your points make sense... unlikely an army on campaign could run back and swap equipment...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: Elector Counts of the Empire!
« on: March 12, 2014, 01:45:27 PM »
When I play the Count of Ostland (see picture) for a "fluff" game... I equip him with two magic weapons... his Runefang and a Dragon Bow (a magical longbow with S6).  I also give him as the Master Archer of the Empire BS6 and the ability to fire three times a turn (but must take a multiple shot penalty).  He has Heavy Armour (no shield, needs hands free for bow), Warhorse with Barding.  I price him as being equal to Kurt Helborg at 320 points to reflect his Master Archer and Dragon Bow.  His armor save is only 3+ which makes him vulnerable in close combat and given his abilities,he is best used for his leadership value and ballistic abilities.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: Campaign
« on: March 12, 2014, 01:28:56 PM »
The most you can go down is 50 points in each category per game... so if you lose both eagles you have 250 points for the second game... if you lose two units in the next round, you drop to 200 points, etc.  As a campaign it may not turn out to be perfectly balanced... but balance kind of goes out the window, when after a game or two, the armies of the two sides may vary point wise by quite a bit...

I am curious to see how players "protect" their irreplaceable units and use them only when necessary compared to "expendable" core units which can always be replaced.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Campaign
« on: March 12, 2014, 05:29:16 AM »
Okay have been thinking of doing a "narrative campaign" (essentially providing "fluff" to support a series of related encounters.  So the idea is this the Empire has agreed to assist the Dwarfs to recover one of their lost mountain dwellings.

The allies and their opponents initially have two armies each of 2000 points each, but no more than 300 points each of Lords, Heros, Special, and Rare units.  The balance of the army most be comprised of "core" units.  Also no named characters, these are "field armies".

So you start the first battle with 4000 points per side.  At the end of each battle, any army with at least 50% of the initial battle points still on the table at the end of the game (reduce their army by 100 points for the next game).  At the end of each battle, any army with less than 50% of the initial battle points reduces their army by 200 points for the next battle.  Units of more than 1 model, count 50% of their points loss if the unit is below 50% of their initial strength.

So as the campaign "wears" on both sides are suffering attrition (100-200 points per army per side...so since there are two armies per side the total attrition is between 200-400 points per side).  In addition, to the total army point attrition per battle, any army losing a Lord or Hero reduces their maximum point value in that category by 50 points.  So if you lost your Lord in the first game, your next army cannot have more than 250 points in the Lord category.  Likewise any army losing a Special or Rare unit (the whole unit) reduces their point allocation to those categories by 50 points.  Finally, all Lord, Hero, Special or Rare units that have not been destroyed at the end of the battle, must be included in the roster of the army in the next battle.

If an army cannot field a "general" (Lord or Hero) because they do not have enough points left in those categories after a series of battles, their army is "knocked out" of the campaign.  Similarly, if their army drops below 1000 points they are "knocked out" of the campaign.  If the Empire and Dwarfs knock the opponents two armies out of the campaign then they have recovered the lost mountain dwelling.

If you want to spice the campaign up some, you could provide that a "core unit" that lasts more than 3 battles and suffers at least one model lost in those battles (an indication that they were actually engaged) receives some veteran benefit (i.e. +1 leadership or +1 weapon skill or +1 ballistic skill...players choice).

If the campaign plays out like I hope, over time as the armies shrink, they will become more and more "core" reflecting the fact that reinforcements and replacements for "core" units would be easier to raise than special or rare units.  Likewise the overall leadership of the armies will degrade as they lose leaders and replace them with lower quality ones.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: Where to buy Free Company?
« on: March 04, 2014, 01:49:58 AM »
For kitbashing I would buy units off of ebay or offer to trade or purchase bits in this forum...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: skirmisher screen
« on: February 23, 2014, 10:00:43 PM »
The biggest TLOS issues relate to hills... since most GW large target models are higher than the GW hills they cannot find cover from cannons... so many groups around here have adapted a rule that says hills regardless of model height block los...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: House Rules for Spears?
« on: February 23, 2014, 01:40:15 AM »
anyone who says State troops with crossbows and handgunners should not be able to skirmish and move and fire will need to explain how a dwarf can carry small cannons (Irondrakes) s5 (armor piercing) and are quick to fire and accomplish all this wearing gromril armor...  I just want my crossbows to be able to move and fire (taking the penalty for doing so)...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: House Rules for Spears?
« on: February 21, 2014, 05:33:26 AM »
The quotes below support skirmishers using crossbows...

Most of these infantry were missile men, armed with early handguns or later with arquebusses, or with crossbows—in 1482 the Milanese had 1,250 handgunners, 352 arquebusiers and 233 crossbowmen. They were organized in small companies of around 50, which did not mass together in battle but operated in skirmishing fashion, making maximum use of natural cover. Perhaps surprisingly, many wore helmets and corselets.

source: http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_armies_italy.html

Another quote:

"This dichotomy between massed and skirmishing missile action was definitely not restricted to archers. The crossbow is one such weapon that could work well either in a skirmishing or in a massed capacity; another good example is personal firearms like the musket or the arquebus. In both cases--just like with the archers--we often find both massed and skirmishing troops in the same army, bearing the same or similar weapons; for example, medieval Italian armies employed massed crossbowmen in combined-arms formations as well as crossbow-armed skirmishers ranging over the flanks and pieces of rough terrain'''"

Someone in an earlier thread suggested that "state troops" have one of three base leadership values.  Militia, Regulars, and Household.  Then you pay extra based on weapon choice, armor choice, and skirmish capability.  I recognize that in the end, Warhammer is a strategy game with some loose linkages to historical warfare rather than a serious attempt to "simulate" history (after all it is a fantasy game). 

I like the player that started this thread am looking for some house rules which fit somewhere between Warhammer fantasy and Warhammer Historical.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: House Rules for Spears?
« on: February 20, 2014, 07:58:49 PM »
RE: All missile troops should have the move and shoot ability with bows having the Quick to Fire capability...

I agree Warhammer won't change the rules for Empire, but I was thinking about a Civil War campaign with house rules... other races would operate as mercenaries and be limited...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: House Rules for Spears?
« on: February 20, 2014, 06:45:44 PM »
I think the Empire foot soldiers need a re-write... I don't like the Horde extra rank in general as I don't see how more troops would enable a unit to initiate more attacks if they are in rear ranks... I do understand the morale benefit of extra ranks... so if I ruled the world (which at this point I don't)...

Swords and Shields fight in 2 ranks, stats do not change
Spearman can carry shields and use them in melee and have initiative 4 and fight in 3 ranks
Halberdiers fight in three ranks, stats remain unchanged
Militia fight in two ranks, with WS2, BS2, I2, L5 (should have a very low point cost)
Free Company fight in two ranks with the stats unchanged including two hand weapons

They should introduce "pikemen", fight in 4 ranks, if charging they should get 1 impact hits at S5 for the front rank, no shields

All missile troops should have skirmish ability

Last, rule change... no such thing as an "unbreakable unit"... replace with "Iron will"... these units do not break unless they lose two consecutive melees... then even they decide life is getting real short...
Greatswords should be a "Core" unit and have heavy armor not "plate" armour fight in 2 ranks

One unit of state troops can be elevated to "Household" troops and be equipped with "plate armor" at a suitable cost

Finally, if you want to go one step further... Halberdiers may be "mixed into spear units with 25% being halberds (remove a 1 halberd for every four castings defeated in melee

while I am at it:

1 unit of Flagellents with Priest should be brought back as a core choice
1 unit of Greatswords with a Hero should be added as a core choice

I don't think it would upset the balance of the game and it would bring these units back onto the tabletop more often...

I would also add the Demigryph as a mount for Lords and Heroes... I mean if a mere knight can ride one... certainly a Lord or Hero could

I recently posted on another thread my belief that:

there should be no move and fire penalty for bow armed units
crossbows and handgunners should be able to move and fire with penalty for moving and firing and use skirmish formations
outriders should be able to move and fire a "single" shot with a penalty for moving and firing or stand and fire "triple shots" with the multiple fire penalty.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: Crossbows vs Handgunners in todays meta
« on: December 04, 2013, 05:53:44 AM »
I believe in the future edition of Warhammer... both Crossbows and Handgunner ought to be able to adapt skirmish formation and move and fire.  The regular bowmen ought to be able to move and fire without penalty and the Crossbows and Handgunners should be able to move and fire with penalties.  The Outriders should be likewise be able to move and fire (a single shot with penalty) or stand and fire three shots (with multiple shot penalty).

These changes would reintroduce the value of firearms to the empire army, which makes sense to me... bows would retain their advantage against unarmored (T3 or lower) troops since they are cheaper and would not pay a penalty to move;  while handguns would be the weapon of choice against armored units with higher T strength values.  Crossbows would retain their longer range advantage, making them a weapon of choice for targeting units "hiding" in your enemy's rear.

Likewise, pistols would retain their advantage as a fast moving unit designed to "shoot up" chaff targets and outriders would retain "role" as mounted and mobile missile troops.

What say you other Empire players?

Reading the TLOS argument makes me want to equip my infantry with massive shields that block all line of sight past them...lol...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: best magic lore against ogres and why?
« on: September 08, 2013, 01:54:52 AM »
okay...next question how do you keep Hell heart from ruining your wizards day?

WHFB The Electors' Forum / best magic lore against ogres and why?
« on: August 25, 2013, 05:39:30 AM »
I have put together a very mobile 2500 point army to game against ogres, what is the ideal magic lore?

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: State troop blasphemy
« on: August 16, 2013, 02:56:32 AM »
I think if you are playing a "fluff" game (more fun in my opinion), you can outfit your troops as you choose.  You could use Greatswords to create "Elite state troops with swords and shields, etc. 

So the issue becomes tournaments.  Frankly, I think superlists detract from the game...  Some tournaments "comp" your army list and determine its "value"...they then require players with "super" lists to play one another (how cruel and appropriate)...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Naming Units and Characters
« on: July 05, 2013, 12:47:45 AM »
So what names have you given your units...for me some of the names include:

Ostland Halberdiers...The Bulls
Ostland Spearmen...The Immortals (mostly because they get killed every game and keep coming back the next game)
Ostland Swordsmen... The Bloodshields (I painted their shields red)
Ostland Pistoliers... The Sons of Ostland
Reik Halberdiers... The Untouchables

One of my witch hunter...Van Helsing
One of my light wizard... Apollo

I have others...but I was wondering what other names people use for units and characters...the battle reports sound better when you use them...

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: militia - web exclusive?
« on: June 20, 2013, 01:38:22 AM »
I suspect that GW has done some "inventory management" to offset their expanding line of models.  In effect, in order to keep the overall inventory at a given store at some specific dollar target amount, they need to eliminate items to make room for new items.  I noticed "my store" is no longer stocking several basic empire kits including the militia unit.  How they select which SKUs not to stock most likely has to do with annual sales per SKU.

While this may reduce the capital they have tied up in inventory, like others have suggested it moves sales to on line where many models are purchased at a "discount" and not directly from GW.   I guess it is a trade-off GW accepts.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: Flagellants and Great Swords
« on: June 20, 2013, 01:16:59 AM »
I find that by the time you satisfy your required core points, Lords and Heroes, there is rarely enough points to justify buying Greatswords or Flagellants compared to other choices. 

That observation is borne out by the fact that since the new book came out, I see them far less than before.   I feel pretty safe in saying that they would have been used more frequently then they are today if they were available as a core choice.

Curious...how often are you using Greatswords and Flagellants in your competitive Empire army list.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Flagellants and Great Swords
« on: June 18, 2013, 04:53:14 AM »
I rarely use these units because they are not core and are not as useful as alternative choices.  That said, if you could field one unit of 30 castings or less of either unit as core, I think I would use them a lot depending on the opponent.  I think GW really missed the boat here.  Allowing one unit as core would have increased sales of these units substantially and enhanced the list options for Empire players... do other people feel the same way as I do?

WHFB The Electors' Forum / Re: witch hunter, yay or nay?
« on: April 05, 2013, 02:46:37 AM »
I like him against Deamons and Vampires.  His ability to "killing blow" a Vampire Lord with one shot is pretty handy.

WHFB The Electors' Forum / The destruction of a Vampire Army
« on: February 25, 2013, 02:40:49 AM »
For once everything went according to plan.  First the cannons and light wizards destroyed the Vampire Terrorgeist and Mortis Engine in the first turn.  Next, the Witchhunter fired a "killing blow" shot at the beginning of turn two against its target, the enemy's Lord.   After this it was a matter of grinding down the enemy's units with my demigryphs, state troops with a Hurricanum in support and Lord on a Griffon.

I think the balance of troops in this game was ideal for this vampire army.  The steam tank stayed home for this one as I find the tendency for it to get tarpitted by an "ethereal" unit frustrating.  As an aside, all of my heros and Lords were equipped with at least a 5 point magical weapon.

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