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Author Topic: The lord of end of times.  (Read 1418 times)

Offline Adrian

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The lord of end of times.
« on: November 09, 2008, 08:36:03 PM »
Well I got my hands on the new chaos book and it was my great displeasure to see that the lord of end of times was back. Now if memory serves me right he was beaten by Grimgore and also that part of his armour was damaged during the fighting. How the hell is he back(also thought if you fail the dark gods they turn you into a spawn) !!!

What also disturbed me was that now he is actually cheaper and still with the same rules as before and that even though he is a lot worse Karl Franz on a dragon is more expensive!

Why is it that when we had a cool hero (Valten, Thyrus) they either died or are not usable any more while chaos can have defeated heros.

There is just too much chaos love with Gw.....
On the battle field there is only but one commandment
THOU SHALT KILL

Offline Helborg

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 08:42:13 PM »
Well, I guess the chaos gods have the ordasity to bring their fallen heroes back to life while Sigmar allows nature to take it's course, like a God should do. Damn, we imperails worship the wrong guys, I know, I know, burn me at the stake  :roll:


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Offline Florian Geyer

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2008, 09:06:40 PM »
Well I got my hands on the new chaos book and it was my great displeasure to see that the lord of end of times was back. Now if memory serves me right he was beaten by Grimgore and also that part of his armour was damaged during the fighting. How the hell is he back(also thought if you fail the dark gods they turn you into a spawn) !!!

Gneisenau actually explained this a while back:

Of course they do! Grimgor just had pity with Archaon. And pity is the predominant character trait of Black Orcs. That, and the love of silk clothing.

Not to mention that Khorne is almost equally mercifull, and will surely have welcomed Archaon back.

"Son," he will have said, "you just managed to wipe out an army it took us 200 years of building, and failed to destroy that measly human town. You just got headbutted by something that is, essentially, a mushroom. But you are my son, and I have a weak spot for pushovers and softies ever since I took that degree in education. So come into my arms, and let me hug you."

"Sure, dad. *sniff* It will never happen again, I promise."

"I know, son. I know."

Curtain falls.

Overall the WoC book almost seems to pretend that the breeze of chaos never happened and that the armies are still assembled, ready to march south any minute. Like I wrote in another thread just a few hours ago, GWs treatment of the SoC is silly, but very understandable.
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Offline PhillyT

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2008, 11:06:23 PM »
Actually, didn't GW reset everything to right before the storm?

Also, Archaon wouldn't be beaten by Grimgor if it hadn't become some sort of retarded battle royale handi-cap match.

Phil
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Offline Sig

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2008, 04:01:21 AM »
It's odd because the Empire book is clearly set after the so called Storm, but the more recent books are set before. It's a shame and a mistake. They should have taken the opportunity to shift the focus to other bad guys like Nagash or Morghur who are infinitely more interesting than your bog standard heavily armoured demon worshippers.

Offline FVC

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2008, 04:27:43 AM »
What makes it particularly bad is that Archaon could have been given some character development and improved for the new book.

Quote from: Me on Bugman's Brewery
The Storm of Chaos was going to make or break Archaon. It's the event his entire life was working towards. One way or another, it had to end there. It was the culmination of Archaon's existence; either he conquers, or he dies. There was no room for a middle ground.

If Archaon survives, and there's no reason you can't have a dead special character in an army book, his character needs to change. Remember that Archaon became Archaon once he felt that Sigmar had abandoned him? How would he react to his defeat? It was supposed to be an invincible army blessed by the power of Chaos. Archaon himself had the blessing of all four Chaos gods. How could they possibly have lost to the weakling southerners? What happened? I liked Archaon when he was roaming the Chaos Wastes with a small band of followers, the Swords of Chaos, seeking out artifacts to crown himself Everchosen. After his defeat, I think it would be interesting for Archaon to introspect on why. He failed Chaos, or did Chaos fail him? I like the image of his followers reviling him upon his escape. He was supposed to lead them to everlasting glory in the name of the gods, and he failed. Worse than that, he had the temerity to survive: to flee, instead of dying with honour and facing the gods to atone for his failure. How can anyone follow a failure like Archaon? Only his most dedicated followers, the Swords, would still follow him. Other Chaos warriors would spit on him, Be'lakor would taunt him, and the Chaos gods would turn their face from him. Does he give up? I can imagine Archaon falling into Malal's camp. Not Malal specifically, of course, as he doesn't exist, but the same sort of mentality. Consumed by hatred, bitterness, and self-loathing, his faith shattered again, blaming anyone and everyone for his failure. He becomes a wanderer again. He still has his equipment and he still has his superlative skill in combat, but now he'll turn it on anyone. You could still take Archaon in a Chaos army; just replace his marks of Chaos with a new special rule or two to convey this new approach and it's fine. You could even make it a wargear option, so that you could choose whether to take Archaon the Everchosen or Archaon the Unbroken.

But you know how GW feels about change. Tzeentch is rolling in his grave.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2008, 11:01:34 AM »
So Archaon should become a dogs of war special character  :biggriin: or a legendary unit like the legion of the fallen if he is fielded with his swords of chaos. That could have been a nice twist.

Offline FVC

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2008, 11:44:45 AM »
What would you do after your faith is shattered and everything you believe in cast down... twice?

Offline PhillyT

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2008, 12:10:08 PM »
Hey thats actually a pretty cool idea...

Phil
Where did she touch you Eight? Show us on the doll.

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2008, 01:40:51 PM »
What would you do after your faith is shattered and everything you believe in cast down... twice?

You become an atheist? But in a world where you see demons acutally hopping around and people ressurected by the will of Sigmar I would guess that you start to see that even with all the power of the gods it is upon yourself to decide your path in life may it be short or not. I could see Archaon as a great dogs of war general. Could be a great hang up for a dogs of war army book where you introduce the outcasts of all kind of armies. I guess there could be vampires that have humanity left also some lizardmen skink that has decided not to be arrow fodder any more orcs come to mind etc.

Offline FVC

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2008, 02:48:19 PM »

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2008, 03:10:22 PM »
Our gods are dead. Ancient Klingon warriors slew them a millennia ago. They were more trouble than they were worth.
—Worf, Star Trek Deep Space Nine

definitely my favorite and if archaon would have said something like that I would have liked him as character and perhaps would play some godless chaos not worshippers.

Offline Shadowlord

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2008, 03:35:11 PM »
Gav fucked up the whole SoC thing and went too far (hell GW did as they are not ready for that kind of change).

So they try to brainwash us that it never happened.

Oddly enough, I am almost sure it will work...  :icon_lol:
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2008, 03:40:23 PM »
Our gods are dead. Ancient Klingon warriors slew them a millennia ago. They were more trouble than they were worth.
—Worf, Star Trek Deep Space Nine
definitely my favorite and if archaon would have said something like that I would have liked him as character and perhaps would play some godless chaos not worshippers.
Would Archaon read love poetry and dodge a lot as a part of mating ritual? :engel:
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Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: The lord of end of times.
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2008, 03:48:32 PM »
depends on whom he will mate I heard that dwarf chicks are quite pesky if you want to get to their gromril panties.

About the poetry I would like to see more thought behind the culture of the different armies I could imagine high elves doing something more bushido like and singing and dancing is easier to see on them instead of an all hunchy and khorny and slaaneshy and actually he has to have some diseases from nurgle archy