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Author Topic: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?  (Read 25317 times)

Offline Sir Paradus Hithili

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How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« on: February 22, 2009, 11:03:15 AM »
Though it is far off I thought I would see how you fellow members would update the empire in 8th ed.

This is how I would do it.

Lords.

1. Elector counts: +1 attack, all friendly fleeing units within 18'' of him auto rally, 90pts.

2. Arch lector: +1 attack, 135pts, War altar +150pts.

Rest the same.

Heroes.

1. Master engineers: +1 Bs, can take 50pts of magic items, Get rid of the robo horse!, 55pts.

Rest the same.

Core.

1. Halberdiers: Armour piercing.

2. Halberdiers, spearmen and swordsmen can take a 25pt magic banner.

3. Huntsmen 1-1 per archer unit, +1 Bs, min size 5, 11pts.

Rest the same.

Special.

1. Pistoliers get back Fulisade, 19pts.

2. Inner circle knights upgrade +2pts, not +3.

3. Greatswords: str 4 base (if elf elites can get str 4 base I think GS's should too), 50pt magic banner, 11pts.

4. New unit: Ogre mercenaries, same stats as ogre bulls without the bull charge, command options, Heavy armour and +1 weapon or great weapon options, 30pts base.

Rest the same.

Rare.

1. Helblaster: 100pts

2. New unit: Mercenary giant, exactly the same as a normal giant.

3. Flagellants: +1 T, 12pts.

4. Stank: gives half VP's when at half wounds, takes up 2 rare slots.

Items.

1. Dragon bow: x2 shots, 35pts.
2. Runefang: 75pts.
3. Mace of helstrum: 50pts.
4. Wyrm sword: 10pts.
5. Gilded armour: 35pts
6. Rat slayer: 15pts
7. Jade amulet: 30pts
8. White cloak: 30pts
9. Griffon standard: 50pts
10. Banner of the valour: Unit ItP.
11. Banner of Sigismund: 45pts.
12. Imperial banner: 80pts.
13. Banner of Duty: auto pass rally tests: 15pts.

Done.

How would you do it?

cheers.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2009, 11:49:18 AM »
Get ready for a lot of people making sarcastic or aggressive comments, and telling you to use the search function! I advise ignoring them.


Anyway, I want barding to be optional for knights.



Quote
Master engineers: +1 Bs, can take 50pts of magic items, Get rid of the robo horse!, 55pts.

Yes!
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline Sig

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2009, 12:04:13 PM »
BSB can take normal gear.

No robo horse, +1bs on engineer.

Halberdiers, spearmen and free company -1 pt each. Shields still cost 1 pt.

Inner circle upgrade 2 pts, down from 3.

Greatswords allowed 50pt banner.

War Altar 150 pts.

Longbows on huntsmen.


That'd be it. I reckon it's pretty good already.

Offline Captain Gerntass

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2009, 12:19:20 PM »
I would say add Pikemen for a core unit (same as DoW), add light cavalry as core (Same as DoW) and
Lancers  15 pts/model
M Ws Bs S T W  A  I  Ld
4  3   3  3  3  1  1  3  7
unit; 5+
w/ hw, heavy armour, shield, lance and warhorse

add command choice and have them as a core.

Long live the Crown of Solland

Offline patsy02

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2009, 01:06:41 PM »
Quote
1. Elector counts: +1 attack, all friendly fleeing units within 18'' of him auto rally, 90pts.

2. Arch lector: +1 attack, 135pts, War altar +150pts.

War altar and AL total price is too high to be worth it imo. I say 125 pts for the altar. And the Elector Count doesn't cost enough to have that ability.
Other than that I like it.
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline Zub

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2009, 01:22:24 PM »
Yeah, that all will be nice, I am starting to be fed of by our iracional weak infantry compared to megakillers in new WoCH and Lizardmen armybooks, of course they are expensive in points, but those units are so mighty, that they easily cut rhtew everithing we have and win a combat even egeanst a unit with Griffon banner and 2 charging detachs.
But I dont think, that we get anything of this  ::heretic:: ::heretic:: ::heretic::

Offline Zub

  • Posts: 37
Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2009, 01:27:15 PM »
I would add one more thing. Greatswors should not be considered as wielding greatweapons and should have in4, couse believe me, two heanded sword is more swifter, than a greataxe, hammer . . .
They are elite infantry hell, but they almost never kill anything cause they strike last and honestly dont have so good touhnes and AS to survive until they swing . . .

Offline riff100

  • Posts: 159
Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2009, 06:25:49 PM »
Halbadiers with heavy armour option!

Offline Johan Willhelm

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2009, 06:40:38 PM »
Halflings!
Rufas the Eccentric:
Quote
Some times there will be threads on controversial subjects . . . Reasonable people can disagree about these things . . . It is important to not make personal attacks or get drawn in to personal attacks.

Be it ethics or muppets. Rufas was a good man.

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Offline Merrick

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 06:57:29 PM »
I'd pay an extra 15 points or so to be able to take the engineer out back and shoot him.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 07:45:43 PM »
Quote
I would say add Pikemen for a core unit

Quote
add light cavalry as core

Quote
I am starting to be fed of by our iracional weak infantry compared to megakillers in new WoCH and Lizardmen armybooks, of course they are expensive in points

I love this board.

Phil
Where did she touch you Eight? Show us on the doll.

Offline patsy02

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2009, 08:02:35 PM »
Quote
Get ready for a lot of people making sarcastic or aggressive comments, and telling you to use the search function! I advise ignoring them.
Quote
I love this board.
:::cheers:::
I agree with the inhumane treatment of animals.

Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2009, 10:50:05 PM »
You can always rely on PhillyT to step in when people might be in danger of having fun.  :icon_biggrin:
Hey, I could still beat up a woman!
If I wanted to.

Offline PhillyT

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2009, 01:45:32 AM »
But I am having fun!  This one is nearly as good as the 5th time we did this, when it stretched to 10 pages, but not as good as the 11th one!

:D

Phil
Where did she touch you Eight? Show us on the doll.

Offline Dannyfave

  • Posts: 2168
  • A.K.A Skabilly Takamaster.
Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2009, 02:38:22 AM »
I am all for just a basic lancer and light cav unit... that would fix all of my problems :-D
From feanor fire heart:


"In west virginia why couldnt they have sex ed and drivers ed on the same day?  Because its too much work for the donkey"

Offline Ownkreig von Pwnage

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2009, 04:44:57 AM »
I love every single one of these ideas, except that you can already take ogres and giants as mercenaries so I think you should just leave it that way

I love the auto-rally for elector counts they should just cost more

I agree about the engineer, and we should make superglue out of all of those robohorses, worst idea ive ever seen  ::heretic:: ::heretic::

The pike and lancer Ideas are the best of all i think, love the lancers and pike fluff too. Imagine the RIDICULOUSLY awesome models that those could be!   :eusa_clap:
You can never have enough threads crying about halberdiers. We have an epic ballad in Nordland called the Halberdiers' Lament. Luckily for you, I shall not sing it.

Offline Dannyfave

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2009, 04:56:49 AM »
I love the bit in the riders of the dead book about the imperial Demi-lancers units, instead of them being pistoliers , they were light cav lancers (though they did have pistols aswell) I like this idea.

Maybe a core unbarded lancer unit that can be upgraded to pistoliers for the cost of a special slot. IDK just throwing Ideas out there.
From feanor fire heart:


"In west virginia why couldnt they have sex ed and drivers ed on the same day?  Because its too much work for the donkey"

Offline scarletsquig

  • Posts: 797
Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2009, 05:24:15 AM »
New plastic knights, war altar, and griffon.

Oh, you mean the rules? Our rules are fine, it's all the other army books that need to be changed. :P

Offline vesrian

  • Posts: 245
Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2009, 05:41:11 AM »
What about an option to take tac nuke warheads for our rocket battery?
Make it an upgrade for the engineer and no one would say he's useless anymore.
Just Say "No" to Pikes.

Offline cisse

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2009, 07:09:31 AM »
Oh, a wish list?   :-D

Let's see:

- elector count: add a little extra to show he's a real leader of men. Re-rolling psych tests perhaps within his general's radius, or an 18" radius for his LD, or... Also, add some useful magic banners.

- bsb: normal equipment options likealmost allother armies, please.

- state troopers: add pikemen, rules as in DoW list, 9 pts, no detachments. Also, spears get three ranks and halberds two ranks to make them worth it and add something special.

- fast cav: I'd love to see a lancer-like unit. Perhaps light armour, shield, lance and pistol for equipment?

- make huntsmen useful again (and min size 5) please

- engineer: well... I'll shut up, best left alone.

- mortar: make a 2 for 1 special choice perhaps? In any case make it useful compared to the cannon. It's not bad, it's just in the special section and competing with even better choices.
cisse

No matter how fast you run, your ass will always be in front of me...

Offline gladius

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2009, 07:26:12 AM »
- bring reiksguard on foot back. (0-1 max in core) - Full plate, shield and hw. 9 points each. Upgradeable to Inner Circle for 3 more points (and unit becomes a special choice)
- replace spearmen by pikemen (same rules as DOW)
- ogres, dwarves and halflings as rare. No giant.
- Make FC skirmish and give them dual pistol options (with all these options, they should cost about 12 pts each). If this one goes through, consider removing Archers from the list.
- drop the engineer from the Character choices and make it a unit upgrade.
- add witch hunter to the character list (hero choice). Gives special abilities vs undead and all things chaos.
- GotE. Agreed that this guy is not really worth it today. The other available choices are much better. Either give the chap a higher LD radius (as suggested by a few people already) or let him allow a different army composition (eg : allow one more special Choice per 1k tranche).
- overall point costs for core should go down significantly.
- mortars should be 1-2 per special slot.
- Stank with actual warhammer rules.
- Bring back the cavalry hammer. (increase point cost if needed)
The cost of Victory is blood. The cost of Defeat is everything.
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Offline GambitGriffin

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2009, 12:37:13 PM »
By looking at this thread it seems that most want to add the best from 6th E, keep the best from 7th and add some of the best from DoW :::cheers:::

Offline Lord Quiran de Lancastre

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2009, 12:47:52 PM »
I'd like to see the war altar removed, as I'm not a fan of things that are damned near mandatory to be competitive in the current environment.

Better options for fast cav.

pikes

special rule allowing halberds to fight in 2 ranks even when charging would make them worth taking.

stank nerfed to shit. I hate that thing, and I play empire.

Make the griffon banner 50 points again so the GotE is mildly useful.

In general incorporate DoW since they aren't getting a new book anytime soon.

Lower the cost of infantry to reflect the current points values of other armies. The detachment rules alone are not enough with all the powerhouse armies being released.

Fix huntsmen.

remove the engineer completely.

Make the army viable in the current environment.

Offline Mathi Alfblut

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2009, 12:56:44 PM »
Yes, that is a nice thing! Would give us a true army that will not have to relly only on gadgets to win battles! :icon_mrgreen:

Well, I have some suggestions to bring Greatswords into line with their new looks. Heck, we do not need another unit not looking their part. After all, it is kind of not fair towards people to have to be versed in all rules aspects of all WHFB books to play a game without suffering simple suprises.

If I was up against Empire for the first time, and saw the greatswords, I would not bother to ask about their armour save since they could not be better than 5+ at most by looking at them. You must have great weapons visible for the unit to have greatweapons. I even belive there is a rule in the rulebook that a unit can have some different weapons mixed in, BUT the majority MUST have the correct weapon.
It must be obvious if the unit have spears, halberds etc... You must be able to see the standards and musician. As I get it, it is okay with some single oddity even in a tournament, but basically, it is about good sportsmanship to be clear about what kind of unit it is.

Now, if weapons are so important to represent on the unit, would not armour level be the same? I think it should. To me, it is important to know if the cavalry is barded or not, for example.

I think it is a bit like double standards. It is also about making it fair for both players. If you have to ask about every single unit to know what it has and donīt have, it sure will not make the game run faster.

For old grunts like many of us, mostly playing friends, it is not that big a deal, because each unit should be familiar. But for beginners this could be a bit bothersome, methinks. My sons would not be too impressed with the GS new plate. At least the old models did their best to look the part, the new plastics are not even trying.

Hence, I belive that it would be nicer, and more cool, to give the GS heavy armour, but also give them T4, just to show how badass hard these vets are.
Oh, and remember GW made it personal, not you!

Offline Shadowlord

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Re: How would you update the empire in 8th ed?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2009, 01:44:45 PM »
I said it before and I say it again...

The only thing the EAB needs is a general who can fart lightning and spew fireballs.

The rest of the "needs" in this thread are just ridiculous - like hard as nails state troopers and Black Orc boss similar fighting general.

I rather see a general who can boost the state troopers (like Halberdiers) with a solid banner,  make one greatsword unit core with a decent banner, and some better magic items.

There are more examples but this covers one thing that "irks" me.
My hood is my castle...