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Author Topic: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger  (Read 7538 times)

Offline commandant

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2010, 08:46:35 PM »
most fantasy since Tolkien is heavily influenced by Tolkien so while the LOTR is more openly Tolkien and more loyal to Tolkien warhammer fantasy also follows Tolkiens rules.   Though of course that wasn't the point

Offline Warlord

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2010, 12:33:42 AM »
If humans can even come close to the abilty of elves then in this tolkien fantasy setting within which we live there is a problem so stop whining about how weak your army is and figure out how to beat the other guy, how to use your detatchments to pull him out of place and how to use your greatswords and knights to clobber him while you use your cannons to blow away anything you can't clobber.

It was about a quarter of your post...

You make an assumption about Elves ruleswise and their inherent balance within the game to having some kind of correlation to their fluff. Fluff is not the tool to use to justify rules, as it has been proven time and again not to work.
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I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline commandant

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2010, 01:46:07 AM »
I do not deny that some of the elves and demons are unbalanced.   However I am beginning to get quite annoyed about how unbalanced people seem to think they are.   The demons are bad, really bad, but the high elves, dark elves, skaven and even the vampire counts are not as bad a people think.   My point is that people keep comparing our units to elven units and saying that we are not as good so we should get better when the problem really is that they are too cheap and should get more expensive.   In fact we find ourselves confronted with the very same problem that ever post Tolkien human fantasy general is confronted with.   Elves, (High, Wood or Dark), demons and vampires are just better than us.   In the case of vampires that is a lot better.   Its not a nice place to be but it is where we are and it is where fantasy often places us so could people please stop whining about it and figure out a way to deal with the problem within the confines of the fantasy world we are in.
Oh and for the record saying that they have uber units so we need uber units is side stepping the problem rather than dealing with it.

Offline Warlord

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2010, 02:59:27 AM »
That was not what I was saying - nor some others in this thread. I I have never said our troops need to get better - most Empire players don't say this.

Tolkien and other fantasy settings also note that Humans are bested by other races (such as Elves) however also note that the humans outnumber them also.

You do touch on the problem regarding pricing - the fact that Dark Elf spearmen are that much better than our human troops for a negligiable point difference. The balance between quantity and quality is what has breached - where quality troops can be bought in a quantity that does not compare appropriately with the quantity of lower quality troops that can be bought.

The game needs primarily to be about maneauvering (tactics) and luck - not about uber troop choices.
Quote from: Gneisenau
I hate people who don't paint their armies, hate them with all my guts. Beats me how they value other things over painting, like eating or brushing teeth.

Offline Grutch

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2010, 06:25:19 PM »
Every Army book is going to have creep.  It sells models. 

Be happy new Empire models are in the works,  this means our Knights will have WS7, and our War Altar will be free if you take an Arch Lector in the next book.  They will likely make it illegal to take an Arch Lector Minus the Altar too.

Agreed about the helblaster,  why they nerfed it and upped the points is beyond me.  But we're talking Graham McNeil here.. the asshat.

-Grutch

Offline Fandir Nightshade

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2010, 06:29:57 PM »
The Hellblaster is cheaper in the new armybook you safe a whole 10 points on it  :engel:

Well as there might be new knights perhaps the cavalry hammer is back....oh I would like that.

But as they have sold enough white wolf knights already I thinke they will introduce a new knight type with war scythes granting +3 on the charge and +1 in subsequent rounds.

Offline Grutch

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Re: Empire Weaker, Daemons Stronger
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2010, 06:38:39 PM »
But as they have sold enough white wolf knights already I thinke they will introduce a new knight type with war scythes granting +3 on the charge and +1 in subsequent rounds.

Cmon!  how can a farming tool be a better weapon on a horse than a sword or lance?  Its a clumsy ass weapon from the back of a horse.   Handweapon stats at best. 

I would like to see the WW cavalry Hammer back,  it was so wrong to take that away.

-Grutch