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Author Topic: 8th Ed BRB - 7th Ed AB Empire Handbook to Armylist creation  (Read 21878 times)

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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8th Ed BRB - 7th Ed AB Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« on: March 18, 2011, 07:35:59 PM »

The 8th Ed handbook is excelently written by Rothgar here:
http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=46111.0


It's something I have been thinking about when I read something similair on the dwarf website. Although in a little different form. There they link to a seperate thread and discuss all the bad and good options for every army book entry (besides the special characters). While I was more thinking of creating a short list compendium that people can reference here while making / posting their own army list.
This list should answer most common questions about our Empire choices as they are right now.

Please do comment in this thread if you feel something has been left out or is wrongly listed.
Eventually I would like to list the most common setups and their positive role and some negative roles they have on the field of battle.

EDIT (08-03-2012): Changed the topic title a little bit to accomodate archiving and a new topic to cover "8th Ed BRB and 8th Ed AB"

I'll start with our Lord choices and follow up in the next posts with Heroes, core choices, special choices and our rare choices

Lords:

General of the Empire
Pro:
+ Banner option for a core unit
+ Cheap Ld 9
Neg:
- Not much extra to offer compared to a TMG or AL
Mounts:
* Not really seen on a griffon, and when used with an Imperial Pegasus it is usually an improved version of a Captasus and then not as the General option.
Commonly used Items:
* A good option for great weapons, because Initiative 5 is not all that great for a character, so he'll be going last in most challenges anyway.                                                           

Templar Grand Master
Pro:
+ Most killy character we have
+ with IC knights used as hammer Unit
+ already comes with weapon + armour + makes his unit Immune to Psychology
Neg:
- Mounted on Barded Warhorse, can't be fielded otherwise
- Only makes his own Knightly order Immune to Psychology (WYSIWYG policy if used will need to reflect this)
Mounts:
* Only Barded Warhorse
Commonly used Items:
* Usually seen with Laurels of Victory and a magic weapon for increased damage.

Arch Lector of Sigmar
Most arguably our best Lord choice.
Pro:
+ 2DD
+ 2 Prayers
+ Difficult to kill with right kit
+ if used with War Altar access to all spells of Lore of Light
Neg:
- Not our most killy character out there
Mounts:
* War Altar (as chariot) (2k and up armies mostly), Barded Warhorse or on foot are all common applications for the AL
Commonly used Items:
* Dawn Armor, VHS
 
Wizard Lord
Usually seen as a level 4 wizard for the added spell and extra 4 points to the casting total.
2k and up armies usually field one of these together with a level 1 or 2 for a decent magic fase.
Pro:
+ adds 3 or 4 to spell casting / dispell values
Neg:
- easy to kill for alot of points
Mounts:
Normally he isn't seen mounted and is either tugged away in one of our core units (leaving it before close combat) or on it's own on the field (trying to avoid the friendly casualties when IF happens)
Commonly used Items:
RoP, Dispell Scroll, some kind of ward save item (pref. The Crimson Amulet)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 12:47:37 PM by StealthKnightSteg »
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Heroes
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 07:36:19 PM »
Captain of the Empire
The most important one in 8th edition would be to act as our Battle Standard Bearer.
Pro:
+ Multiple roles he can fulfill (BSB, solo hunter, lower points game your General)
Neg:
-
Mounts:
Barded Warhorse or Imperial Pegasus the last one gives another role for the Captain is as a warmachine / mage hunter on a Pegasus (also called Captasus) or even a warmachine protector for nasties like Gutter Runners.
As BSB he is mostly fielded on foot and joines a center block of infantry
Commonly used items:
As BSB: Armor of Meteoric Iron, Dawnstone or Ward save item
As Casketsus: Full Plate, Shield, Lance, Aldreds Casket of Sorcery, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
As Anvilsus: Full Plate, Shield, Lance, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone
(look below in the thread for a post by Sejestephan for a detailed explanation of both *sus roles)

Warrior Priest
He is not a character that is used for his good combat skills but rather for his effective boosting of one (or more) of your State Troopers by giving them Hatred and maybe some prayer buff and ofcourse his added dispel dice.
Pro:
+ 1 Dispel Dice
+ Prayers
+ Hatred for him and the unit he is in
Neg:
- Not very killy
- Squishy (In Horde units he is usually positioned on the corner of the front rank to try and keep him out of combat for his survivability)
Mounts:
Barded Warhorse, might be used if the WP is going to be fielded in a Hammer unit of Knights otherwise normally found on foot.
Commonly used items:
The manner in how to fit him is more one of personal taste. Either he is fielded with a nice piece of armor (AoMI if not yet given to a BSB) and maybe some magic weapon, but he is also seen "naked" with just a mundane armor and weapon.

Battle Wizard
Unlike the Wizard Lord the Battle Wizard is seen as both a level 1 or level 2 depending on points permitting or his role he needs to fulfill (scroll caddy?). He is there to support the level 4 wizard with casting / dispelling and even with spell selection to make sure that all spells are taken from a certain Lore.
Pro:
+ Support for your lvl 4 wizard
Neg:
- minimal protection besides Look Out, Sir! roll
Mounts:
Barded Warhorse, but normally fielded on foot either in a unit or alone on the battle field.
Commonly used items:
Rod of Power or Dispell scroll

Master Engineer
Fielded with our Artillery when we have 3 or more options around to give us a better hit ratio with his ability to reroll the artillery or scatter dice.
Pro:
+ Re-roll for any warmachine within 3"
Neg:
- Not much use for his special weapons as he can't use them if he used his re-roll
- Little protection in armour or offensive abilities
Mounts:
Mechanical Horse, Barded Warhorse. Both options are not seen in use as he is more valuable standing with our warmachines.
Commonly used items:
Most used would be his Pidgeon Bombs
« Last Edit: April 17, 2011, 09:46:18 AM by StealthKnightSteg »
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Core choices
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 07:37:28 PM »
Halberdiers
Our best offensive core option at the moment.
Pro:
+ S4 due to Halberds
Neg:
- 6+ AS
- Shield option, cannot be used in Close Combat
Options:
Shields (see Neg point)
Full Command is almost standard

Spearman
Spearman only seem to get fluff action on the field these days.
Pro:
+ Extra rank attack (so 3rd rank due to support attacks, 4th rank in horde)
Neg:
- Extra rank attack, due to not able to use it on the charge
Options:
Shields are viable for the AS in Close Combat, but no parry save, more bodies are usually better value.
If used the Full Command is almost standard

Swordsmen
Our best defensive unit. Best used as a tarpit unit to hold enemies in place for our other units to perform flank attacks (or even rear attacks)
Pro:
+ Higher WS and I then our other options
+ Handweapon + shield (for parry save)
Neg:
- Lacks killing potential
Options:
Full Command is almost standard

Knightly Order
Our hammer unit
From small units of 5 knights till blocks of 10 are normally seen. Some might even go to 15, but nothing larger.
(more on this in Special)
Pro:
+ High armour save (1+ for lance knights, 2+ for great weapon knights)
+ Strength bonus (+2 with lances on the charge, with great weapons always but strike last)
Neg:
- Initiative is only 3 meaning they will strike last alot, this is also the reason why many choose for the great weapon option.
- Big infantry units bog down our knights, especially Lance knights suffer here loosing their S bonus in more combat rounds.
- Competitive units cost alot.
Options:
Musician is normally always used from 5 man (war Machine hunting) units till bigger blocks. Standard Bearer and Preceptor only in larger units and also only if points alow.
Magic banner is seen sometimes, but not many good options left besides the War Banner.

Handgunners
Shooting in 8th edition versus the big infantry blocks isn't what it used to be and it's almost impossible to create the panic checks with just infantry shooting.
Pro:
+ S4 and Armour Piercing can do some damage against heavy armoured opponents
+ Champion has weapon upgrades
Neg:
- Move-or-Fire
- Range compared to Crossbows
Options:
Not sure if it's worth taking a musician and/or Standard Banner (besides maybe the Blood and Glory scenario)
Marksman might be of use with a brace of pistols to give charging units a short range Stand or Shoot reaction (due to pistols range versus the range of the handguns)
The HLR option seems only viable if the army is fielding about 3 of these to secure a needed hit.

Crossbowmen
The same applies to the crossbowmen as with the handgunners on the points of the usefullness of shooting in general.
Pro:
+ 30" range
Neg:
- No Armour Piercing
- Move-or-Fire
- No weapon upgrades for the unit champion
Options:
Also here not sure if it's worth taking a musician and/or Standard Banner (besides maybe the Blood and Glory scenario)

Archers and their upgrade unit Huntsmen
Detachments of 5 are still seen but usually only in special circumstances (pulling out goblin fanatics for example).
Pro:
+ Scouting with huntsmen
+ Stubborn in woods
+ No movement penalty due to terrain
Neg:
- Skirmish doesn't help any more to set up as screening unit due to True Line of Sight, as they now need to line up with 0,5" in between
- Marchblocking is now dependant on Ld testing so not always applicable
- point cost versus usefullness
Options:
Not worth it to upgrade to Marksmen

Free Company
Too squishy for big unit exploitation (halberds and swordsmen are way better options here). And due to the Detachments do not count towards core choice costs together with negate rank bonus needs 10 (alive) models in flank/rear means a size of 15 to be very decent as detachment and this is too costly normally for an effective armylist.
Some people still use these in small detachments of 5 or 9 models for the added +1 charge +1 flank bonus in combat result.
Pro:
+ Cheap, but so are Halberdiers
+ 2 attacks
Neg:
- no survivability
- no Strength bonus (hence why Halberdiers are being favored)
Options:
Command options are almost never used. Mostly due to the fact that these are mostly used as detachments only.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 11:59:03 AM by StealthKnightSteg »
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Special Choices
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 07:37:54 PM »
Inner Circle Knightly Order
Upgraded version of the Core Choice with added Strength.
These units still see some daylight as Hammer Unit together with either (or both) Templar Grand Master and/or Arch Lector/Warrior Priest. If used this way the choice seems to favor the Great Weapons a bit more then the Lance for more effectiveness in follow up combat rounds.
Also with the Banner of Enternal Flame these units are seeing use as Regeration Monster hunters.
Size of an effective unit is normally 10-15 models, but it is very costly if lost.
Pro:
+ S4
+ High armour save (1+ for lance knights, 2+ for great weapon knights)
+ Strength bonus (+2 with lances on the charge, with great weapons always but strike last)
Neg:
- Initiative is only 3 meaning they will strike last alot, this is also the reason why many choose for the great weapon option.
- Big infantry units bog down our knights, especially Lance knights suffer here loosing their S bonus in more combat rounds.
- Competitive units cost alot.
Options:
Musician is normally always used from 5 man (war Machine hunting) units till bigger blocks. Standard Bearer and Preceptor only in larger units and also only if points alow.
Magic banner is seen sometimes, but not many good options left besides the War Banner or the Banner of Eternal Flame.

Greatswords
One of our best elite infantry options. Good damage output, some survivability and a nice tarpit as they are stubborn, add some banner effectiveness here with your Battle Standard Bearer (or your General of the Empire ability) and a Warrior Priest and you got a very nasty infantry block.
Seeing use in 20-40 models.
Pro:
+ Armour Save of 4+
+ Stubborn
+ S5 with Great Weapons
Neg:
+ Strike Last with Great Weapons
Options:
Almost always Full Command

Pistoliers
Allround harrass unit.
Usually in units of 5 maybe 6. Unlikely in 10. Mostly used to harass enemy flanks, warmachines and small units early in the game. Sometimes as warmachine guardians.
Pro:
+ Quick to Fire (no movement penalty)
+ Fire on the March (no marching penalty to shooting)
+ Vanguard (combined with Fire on the March gives you 28" of movement and shooting!! Just remember it is on it's own then without support)
Neg:
- Brace of pistols when mounted do not give extra attack in close combat
- Not much survivability
- March Blocking is less effective then it was.
Options:
Always used with Musician for a better Feigned Fleight action
Often given a Marksmen and if that's done it would not be wise not to fit him with a repeater pistol as it increases the avarage hits done alot.

Outriders
Stationary offensive or defensive unit
Pro:
+ Weapon options on Champion (Hochland Long Rifle most commonly)
+ Vanguard + 24" range is shooting first round
+ Smaller unit same number of shots at same unit cost as handgunners (Higher BS makes up for the Multishot penalty)
Neg:
- Move or Shoot
- Barding gives loss of the Vanguard rule
- Special choice compared to handgunners as core, they get competition from the other Special choices (Inner Circle Knights, Cannons, Mortars, Greatswords and even Pistoliers)
Options:
Barding - only if you want your unit to have a defensive roll
Musician not used much
Champion really only used to get an extra Hochland Long Rifle in the army.

Great Cannon
Depending on the size of your army atleast 1 usually 2 are seen fielded.
Pro:
+ Best option to our army to take out other artillery and monsters (also stuff in houses!)
+ Strength 10
+ Shooting at crew is using Thougness of the machine (thoughness 7!)
Neg:
- Sniping characters is harder due to the Look out, Sir! rule
Options:
No options, but adding an Engineer makes the Great Cannon alot more survivable!

Mortar
Prime choice in any army next to a cannon, only the mortars role is to diminish the other players horde / infantry units before we engage them in close combat. Just like cannons depending on the size of your army atleast 1 usually 2 are seen fielded.
Pro:
+ 5" template with no partial hits anymore everything is automatically hit under the template
+ Cheap!
Neg:
- Strength 3 (under the hole 6) does usually mean that thougher opponents don't quite get the impact we want on their units.
Options:
 No options, but adding an Engineer makes the Mortar alot more survivable and more accurate!
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:43:25 AM by StealthKnightSteg »
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Rare Choices
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2011, 07:38:13 PM »
Flagellant Warband
Depending on your playstyle (or forced playstyle) these are best used when playing aggressivly.
Usually fielded in blocks of 21/28 (7 files) or 30 (horde) models.
Pro:
+ Core choice if fielding an Arch Lector or Warrior Priest
+ Alot of damage output in the first round of combat
+ Martyring gives additional super bonusses to combat
Neg:
- Very vulnerable to shooting
- Martyring lowers your models by 1-3 per time you are using it, depleting your unit.
- No characters can join
- Max unit size 30
Options:
Prophet is mostly only used in the horde formation of 30 models (as that is the max) to get another attack in. Otherwise points are spend elsewhere.

Helblaster Volley Gun
Their use is a little bit limited to their range, but still an awesome piece of machinery especially good in taking care of those nasty Warmachine hunting units. Or when you are playing defensivly they are very good at taking down a few ranks of incoming units that are closing in on your line.
Pro:
+ Psychological warfare, opponents are scared shitless by seeing this thing.
+ Can pack a punch versus heavy armored opponents (good way to secure a flank)
 Neg:
- Almost always needs an engineer from saving it from blowing up
- BS shooting with all to hit modifiers applying
Options:
No options, but having an engineer present is almost mandatory

Helstorm Rocket Battery
Somewhat an upgraded version of the Mortar, but a bit less accurate. If it does hit on a unit then it is devastating. Add a bit more shooting on that unit and you might get that panic test going!
At the moment this rare choice seems to be the first pick.
Pro:
+ 5" Template with S5
 Neg:
- "Cannonball bounce" added decreases its accuracy somewhat
 Options:
No options, but adding an Engineer makes the Rocket Battery alot more survivable and more accurate!

Steam Tank
A lot of points to invest in this but you got one hell of a machine in your army that will serve (willingly or unwillingly) some key roles.
First and most unwillingly role will be that it'll attract alot of attention from your opponent to get rid of which is actually good as your other units won't be targeted alot.
Besides this obvious role it is also one hell of a tarpit, keeping unit's locked in combat with it for lengthy times, and with it's grind ability and it's shooting in combat options also one hell of a killing machine.
Pro:
+ Can be healed now (check your Empire FAQ amendments!!!)
+ T10 and W10
+ Great tarpit unit
 Neg:
- Instant kill spells can now also target it
- Expensive unit
 Options:
No Options
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:42:58 AM by StealthKnightSteg »
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 09:21:53 AM »
Empire specific rules that can influence your army list setup.

Exerpt from CannonofDoom

A Note on Detachments in 8th Edition:

At first glance, detachments are a no-brainer instant addition to any list. They don't cause panic (which is amazing), they allow use of the many detachment rules which can change the course of an entire battle, and they offer a degree of flexibility that many armies merely WISH they could muster. In 7th Edition, if you didn't take detachments, then you were robbing yourself of the strongest Empire ability. I am in no way going to diminish any of these factors. Detachments can be extremely powerful additions to your forces, and you should strongly consider adding them to your list every time you begin building your army.

Unfortunately, there are now many reasons NOT to take detachments. 8th Edition changed the dynamic of the way the game is played in such a way that detachments are no longer an automatic inclusion in many lists. In fact, I have found myself leaving detachments out of my lists more and more. Let's run down the pros and cons of each detachment type.

Handgun / Crossbow Detachment.
Ballistic Skill shooting has lost a lot of it's glimmer with the advent of giant blocks of infantry all over 8th Edition. Whittling enemy blocks is now the purview of Mortars, Rocket Batteries, and mages, and the mighty Handgun has been relegated to a more pedestrian task of picking off cavalry and other shooting units. They are almost never worth it. The only task I think they would be useful for is protecting warmachines, and then you would be better off with a non-detachment unit that can take a banner and musician.

Archer Detachment.
Just .... no. Bows are move and shoot, and skirmish is nice, but these guys should be 5 points now, so 8 points is just too much for a throw-away screener unit that mostly gets sacrificed in a role that Free Company could do better.

Combat Detachment (Swordmen, Halberdiers, Free Company).
They get counter charge and supporting charge, which are still powerful. But in order to disrupt ranks, they need to have two full ranks themselves. Disrupting ranks does not negate steadfast, so hopefully your parent unit will be able to do that on it's own. For the most part, Swordsmen are now best for this task, because they have the best survivability to help keep their ranks. Halberdiers are good too, because they will help with some extra kills, but they will also take more in return. Free Company, which once held the rank of Best Detachment choice, are now rarely seen in my lists, and then only in 5 man detachments used to draw out or redirect nastiness such as fanatics or frenzied troops.


Finally, there is the Big Question. Can I include detachments, and still meet my Core requirement? They don't count towards your Core choices! This was not a big deal in 7th Edition, because you could field three core units with full complements of detachments no problem. In the world of 8th Edition, bigger units, more artillery, and more characters means fewer points to go around. That 25% Core Requirement has become a premium. This is the number one reason I find myself leaving them at home. Their benefits do not outweigh the extra Core Units I have to take to make up for their presence in my lists. It is unfortunate that this is the case, but the fact of the matter is that two units of 40 halberdiers with full command, and a unit of 20 Crossbowmen just does not equal 25% Core, and adding detachments will only make it MORE difficult to meet that requirement, not to mention that maneuverability seriously begins to become a problem with such large blocks all over the field.

Detachments have their place, and they are a great tool that we have in our arsenal. Just don't feel that you HAVE to use them, and if they don't fit into your list, don't feel that you have to force them in there even if they weaken your overall battle plan.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 12:07:16 PM by StealthKnightSteg »
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Offline Kimiko

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 12:01:50 PM »
Outriders
A pretty expensive upgrade for handgunners, stand or shoot rule makes them not so usefull, though the Marksman can add 1 more HLR to your army.

Maybe you mean "move or shoot"?

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 12:12:22 PM »
Outriders
A pretty expensive upgrade for handgunners, stand or shoot rule makes them not so usefull, though the Marksman can add 1 more HLR to your army.

Maybe you mean "move or shoot"?

whoops :)
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Offline Omalley69

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2011, 03:04:34 PM »
I find to differ on your take on pistoliers, outriders and generaly shooting.

Handgunners are still a good unit in 8.ed. and i dont think your text makes them justice enough. They mow down knights and well armoured stuff very good. With the "new" fire in 2 ranks you can position 10 of them at ease and let the 80 point unit go crazy. Poeple often igonre them if well placed, as they a worth to few point to real be worth spending time on, maybe ad in a banner for the blood and glory mission.

The HLR is good in a combo with a priest for the reroll to hit and wound. People rarly want to try and dispel that prayer. I play with 10 handgunenrs and 10 crosbows, and a single HLR. It works great.

Pistoliers vs outriders are a players personal choice. A friend of mine play exclusivly pistoliers, were i tend to field alot of outriders before i take my first pistolier unit. Ive seen people take units of up to 15 outriders, and go crazy ape s*** shooting on incomming units. Its devastating to some races. I like to field 2 6 man units of outriders and mow shots into semi armoured troops that have inier ini than my 3 units of 40 halberdiers.
Pistoliers are great for diversion and rare attacks, and can put shots into units as you work your way over to a distant warmachine of the likes.




Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 10:28:33 PM »
Great overview! I've been playing Empire since 4th Ed and it made me think differently about some choices, well done!

I really think Flags are one of the best core units in the game (what's that, NO warrior priests  :-o) They do suffer from no armour and toughness but there are so many buffing spells out there (flesh to stone) that these problems can be mitigated.

I agree with huntsmen, especially as they are minimum 10 models, just poor. They fit well in Stirland armies but other than that...

I like outriders in the new ed. The vanguard move means that they can get into position before the game and go wild. I put a HLR in with mine as a bit of fun. I try to get 6 of them and 6 pistoliers in all my armies (if i can only take one it's usually whichever i think of first!)

Overall great work!        :happy:

Offline Peasant Count

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2011, 12:40:05 AM »
Yeah, this is efficient material.  You summed up the consensus of views posted on the Elector's forum.  It will be a nice thread to direct new players. 

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2011, 09:26:24 AM »
Well I'm not the best person to give these insights as I'm not very experienced game wise (only 2 battles with 8th now both against skaven), but I try to be very analytical on this (helps being a software tester always reviewing documentations).
 
I'm going to really dig into the post about Pistoliers and Outriders  more and see if I can get some more comments in on this.
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Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2011, 09:32:56 AM »
Keep working on this.


I'll either sticky it or make an article out of it as soon as a consensus is reached.


Not yet, in other words.
Have one  on Midaski's tab.  :::cheers:::
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2011, 09:35:28 AM »
Keep working on this.


I'll either sticky it or make an article out of it as soon as a consensus is reached.


Not yet, in other words.

What would you need to get this consensus?
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2011, 03:45:18 PM »
Bribes ?


Seriously, just enough people saying "this is great" will do it for me.
Have one  on Midaski's tab.  :::cheers:::
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2011, 04:56:58 PM »
Bribes ?


Seriously, just enough people saying "this is great" will do it for me.

Oh! Well I actually will do with more input actually to help with the information (you don't want to wait on me to get enough battles done to experiment with the units...)
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline warhammerlord_soth

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2011, 05:01:06 PM »
Well, let's test your theories at the Eurobash, shall we ?
Have one  on Midaski's tab.  :::cheers:::
Famous last words. R.I.P.

Offline Lord Equaton

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2011, 06:50:55 PM »
This is great!  :happy:

Offline Guilder

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2011, 01:52:40 AM »
This is a really good resource for new players.  Well done sir!  However, generals of other armies now have one place to get information about Empire units.  Oh well, still a fantastic post.  :::cheers:::

Offline Eighty

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2011, 07:46:50 AM »
thanks for the input! very useful imo
should link this every time we get an im new what do i put in my army list :)
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Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2011, 07:55:00 AM »
thanks for the input! very useful imo
should link this every time we get an im new what do i put in my army list :)

Psst, look at the other armies forums aswell!! Some have similair threads (as stated in the first post I adapted this from the dwarf community)
 
This is a really good resource for new players.  Well done sir!  However, generals of other armies now have one place to get information about Empire units.  Oh well, still a fantastic post.  :::cheers:::

Well that was sort of the idea to get newer players with the obvious questions to this thread. As most of us can agree on answering the same question 25+ times over and over gets a bit tedious  O0
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Offline Newt

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2011, 03:04:38 PM »
I really like this Ive actually bookmarked it.  As a recent returnee(?) I have had only a general idea of the game from 4/5 years ago.  I have used this information to help build my armies and justify purchasing certain units.    I refer to this list when I build a list for the every other wednesday games we have.  Having this information allows me to come to conclusions without writing up my build.  What would be nice to see is a write up of special items and equipment (although its much easier to see) it would be interesting to see what common items are taken.

Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2011, 06:11:38 AM »
I really like this Ive actually bookmarked it.  As a recent returnee(?) I have had only a general idea of the game from 4/5 years ago.  I have used this information to help build my armies and justify purchasing certain units.    I refer to this list when I build a list for the every other wednesday games we have.  Having this information allows me to come to conclusions without writing up my build.  What would be nice to see is a write up of special items and equipment (although its much easier to see) it would be interesting to see what common items are taken.

I tried to include some basic fits where they seem common enough like the AoMI and Dawnstone combo on the BSB captain. Will see if I can add some more here and there.
Also looking at the formatting of the whole thing as more information poors in I don't want it to look like walls of text (avoinding TL;DR reactions)
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989

Offline Sejestephan

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2011, 08:37:23 PM »
Why would you give a BSB on foot AoMI AND a shield? And even more importantly, how are you going to do it, when he can't pick a shield unless magical and AoMI is his magic armor choice? :)

I think you should add some builds to the characters.

This is how I run my captasus:

Option 1) The anvilsus:

Captain, Pegasus, Full Plate, Shield, Lance, Crown of Command, Dragonhelm, Luckstone: This guy is actually the one I use the most, he is great for stopping units, supplying board control and just living through most stuff the enemy throws at him. He's got a 1+ armor save with a single reroll, 3 wounds and stubborn.
There are a myriad of uses for him, such as mage hunting, locking units in close combat, baiting and just generally harrass anything he wants to. I've played a lot of games now with my empire, and this guy has become my favorite character. Everything about him is just good, and he is about 150 pts too, so not even a pointsink.

Option 2) The casketsus:

Captain, Pegasus, Full Plate, Shield, Lance, Aldreds Casket of Sorcery, Dragonhelm, Luckstone: Well, just switch the CoC for ACoS and you get an entirely new type of character. This guy is more sneaky. His main goal is obviously to steal opponents spells, something that is very powerful in conjunction with our Seal of Destruction.
Just get him close to an enemy wizard and start stealing away. Lategame he can support your knights or halberdiers with a nice juicy rearcharge or you can even sacrifice him to avoid that devastating charge.
I like Casketsus, but the other option is actually more my favorite, since the casket business is sometimes hard to pull off in a way that pays off.




Offline StealthKnightSteg

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Re: 8th Edition Empire Handbook to Armylist creation
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2011, 09:28:04 PM »
Thanks, I don't know why that shield creeped in there!!

I'll update the Heroes post (like I did with the Lords) soon and will see what I can add from your suggestions to the builds.
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." -- Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989