Author Topic: The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts  (Read 1194 times)

Offline Anubis

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The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts
« on: February 02, 2016, 04:32:57 AM »
Hello fellow generals - I've put together a themed list let me know what you think (especially the Prayers of Morr)

On the eastern boarder between Stirland and Sylvania a group of grizzly well worn troops despised by all, but needed by most. Their reputation of gruesome severity to root out all Vampires, cults, and other dark monsters. Lead by the self proclaimed High priest of Morr, York Durrin, and joined by Gilgad of light (much to his displeasure) the Pale Company patrols night and day ever vigilance.     

The Pale Company – Stirland Boarder Patrol

Lords:  468
Father York - High Priest of Morr, Barded Warhorse, Great scythe, Armor of Destiny, dawnstone

Gilgad - Wizard Lord of light, Lv 4, Earthing rod, Talisman of preservation

Heroes: 494
Barrik the Grim - Captain of Stirland – Full plate, Barded warhorse, BSB, lance, banner of swiftness

Brother Gilles – Warrior priest of Morr, AoMI, Great scythe

Radar de Raven – Witch hunter, brace of pistols, Van Horstmann’s speculum, seed or rebirth

Volarius – Battle wizard of fire, Lv 2, ruby ring of ruin, channeling staff

Core: 1063
(340) The 13th unlucky cohort - 40 Halberdiers, full command
   - 10 Archers
The Gravediggers – 24 swordsmen, full command
   - 10 Crossbows
The Pale Riders – 5 knights, musician
Knights of the sacred Scythe – 10 inner circle knights, Great weapons, full command, Steel-standard

Special: 240
The Ghost’s Shadow – 5 pistoliers, musician, outrider, brace of pistols 
Screaming Banshee - Great cannon

Rare: 130
The light or Morr - Luminary

Priest of Morr (house rules)

SPECIAL RULES: Magical Attacks, Fear not Death, Thirst for Revenge

Fear not Death: The priest of Morr has no fear of death; on the contrary he relishes in all its aspects, as a result Morr priests and the unit they’ve join are immune to fear.

Thirst for Revenge: The Priest and his unit gain Hated against all types of Undead & Nekeharan undead

Blessing of Morr: Priests of Morr may channel power and dispel dice in the same manner wizards

Prayers of Morr: Priests of Morr know the three prayers listed below. Prayers of Morr are innate bound spells (power level 3). Prayers are augment spells that target the Priest of Morr and his unit.
•   Presence or Morr: Every enemy unit in base contact with the Priest suffers 1d6+1 Strength 4 hits (2d6+2 if the unit is Undead or Nekeharan undead).
•   Hand of Morr: The Priest and his unit gain flaming and magical attacks.
•   Ease the Suffering: The priest or any ally character within 12” and line of sight heals 1 wound.     

Comments and criticisms welcome

Offline CarolineWellwater

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Re: The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2016, 12:01:23 AM »
(( Hey Anubis,

I'm feeling lazy, so no story review for you.

1) For your High Priest, I think you can save a few points, and forgo the Dawnstone.  I know it lets you re-roll armor saves; however, most things that will smash into the High Priest will either go right through his armor anyway, or penalize it so much that the re-roll is effectively useless.  I'd save the points for something else.

2) For your wizard, for me, Light is overused.  At least where I am.  Everyone, and I mean Everyone, plays Light.  And, as such, there is a fairly effective SOP for turning the lights off.  You might work better with Shadow and Death, both of which, I feel, fit your theme of Morr-ites more anyway.

2-A) I'm not impressed with 1-use items; especially the Earthing rod.  Most of the Miscast effects aren't that bad, and the ones that are, are pretty extreme in their chance to be rolled.  As such, I'd save the points and drop it.

2-B) With your Luminark, I see why you are bringing a Light Wizard… more on that in a bit too.

3) For its cost, the Armor of Meteoric Iron is pretty expensive for its low Ward Save effect, and, as such, a YMMV item to me.  Don't forget, the Warrior Priest has the option of getting a two-handed weapon, AND a shield.  As such, Heavy Armor and Shield give you a 4+ save to get to melee, and still a 5+ save in melee… and a lot cheaper too. 

3-A) I use the Armor of Meteoric Iron as well… but I've been moving towards Heavy Armor and a DragonHat as of late, which is cheaper, and still gives you a decent save.

4) Not really impressed with the Witch Hunter.  I can see why you include him in your theme…  I just find him less than impressive.

4-A) Most players see the Van Horstmann's speculum-swap from a mile away.  And, don't forget, they can challenge with a skeleton champion or something too.  I'd suggest saving some points, and dropping the speculum.  Besides, if I remember correctly, Lore-wise, the speculum was designed by a Light wizard who, as GW has pretty much everyone go, falls to the allure of Chaos-Tzeench.

4-B) Not impressed with the Seed of Rebirth.  A number of enemies have Fire, and a 6+ Regen is effectively non-effective.  You'd be better off spending your points on the Ironcurse Icon (which I'm also not fond of), as at least then the entire unit gets the effect.

4-B-1) If you want to give your Witch Hunter some protection, the Armor of Destiny and the Armor of Fortune are pricier options… but better.

5) You are going High Risk with your BSB having a Magic Banner over Magic Protection.  With how critical his re-roll ability is, most players give him stuff to increase his survivability, over his offensive punch. 

5-A) For knights, the Banner of Swiftness is… okay.  The real problem is that your BSB is on horseback, and he really should be on foot, hanging out with the Swordsmen or Halberds.  If you want to give your BSB a combat banner, the Razor Standard works a lot better… as does the Banner of Flaming Fire (or whatever that one is called).  That way, he's making his attacks, and the unit's attacks better.

5-B) Though, I would, instead, suggest the following for your BSB: Full Plate, Shield, Burial Gown of Morr (aka White Wolf Cloak), Pistol.  That gives him a 3+ Armor Save, a 5+ Ward Save (2+ against fire), and -1 to be hit in melee.  Pretty survivable, for one of our critical LD lynchpins.  (And if he's blessed with  that Light Spell that gives him WS 10, now some enemy models will need 6s or worse to hit him!)  Anyway, with the Pistol, you increase his threat radius by 12", and he is pretty effective with it, with his BS 5.

6) The Ruby Ring of Ruin is better used on your Witch Hunter, where the fireballs generated get Killing Blow.

6-A) With your four attempts to channel already, you really don't need the Channeling Staff.  You'd be much better served with a Dispell Scroll

6-B) Fire is one of my favorite spell-sets… but keep in mind that it's Strength is mediocre.  A lot of stuff can weather Strength 4 hits.  You can slim-cast a lot of its spells though, and it has one of the best enchantments in the game from FLAMING SWORD OF FIRE!

6-B-1) As an aside, Flaming Cage of Fire is a pretty neat Hex too.  It can trap a unit, plus do a few, free hits.  If you can force a unit to flee that is in the Cage, they'll ALL take auto hits.  The hits aren't that strong… but I've used Flaming Cage of Fire, and Windy Gust of Wind pretty well together… though that requires a Red Mage and a Blue Mage… you have White Mage and Red Mage.

7) With Crossbows being move-or-shoot, it does limit their effectiveness extensively.  I would suggest another detachment of Archers instead.  Archers have effectively the same range as Crossbows (since they skirmish, and can fire-on-the-move), with a modest decrease in attack ability.

7-A)  Still, their move-and-fire option opens them up to a lot more avenues of use.  If you move the crossbows, you've paid for equipment you're not using... since they're move-and-shoot.  Or, if you deploy them poorly, you can lose two to three turns trying to move them into a better position. 

7-A-1) If you move the archers, they might not have an optimal shot… but they should always have something they can shoot.  And archers screen your artillery much better than Crossbows.  And archers make for much better Wizard escort units.

7-B) With the Empire BS3, I'd rather keep the mobility option open, since you'll rarely be hitting stuff anyway.

8) For your small-knights, I'd suggest a champ and banner in addition to the music.  The champ adds an attack, without increasing the frontage, and the banner opens up the option for them to take riskier charges of opportunity.

8-A) If you're just getting a small-sized block of knights for a speed-bump / redirect effect, the Rieksknights are better, since they have Strength 4.  Stubborn is nice… but more their permanent Strength 4 makes them a tougher speed-bump.  If your opponent chooses to ignore the Rieksknights, they can still make a much more effective charge with their Strength 6 lances.

9) To me, Greatweapons on our knights is… almost suicide.  1+ Armor Save, with attacks at initiative if fricking huge.  It means you can resist missile fire effectively, and can survive melee pretty well, as most melee units have Strength 4 or better.  And, you still get to attack at Strength 4, sometimes Strength 6.  2+ Armor Save will suffer against missile fire, and will sustain potentially crippling casualties before they get a chance to strike.  Though, I guess that fits with the Morr-ish death theme.

9-A) Keep in mind that the difference between WS4 and WS3 is… cosmetic more than anything.  Most enemy units have WS4 anyway. Those that don't, tend to have such a horde of attacks or models, that they don't care.  Quantity has a quality all its own.

9-B) Also, anything Light can do to buff your Greatweapon knights, it can also do to buff your Lance-and-Shield knights.  Instead of removing a penalty, you're adding a bonus.  I'd rather be adding bonus', instead of removing penalties.

9-C) The Steel Standard is impressive… but expensive.  If you want to save some points, swap out the Steel Standard for the Banner of Swiftness.  (And then get your BSB some magical protection, as mentioned earlier.)

10) If you are going to bring a Luminark… you might as well go full Light Council, and swap out your Level 2 fire for a Level 2 Light mage.  That way, your Luminark-LAYZOBEAM is even stronger.

10-A) For me, though, I like the attack, and the Luminark is a Defensive item.  As such, I like the Hurricanum for several reasons.  The Hurricanum offers a Power Die, letting it potentially power itself.  While in contrast, the Luminark has to leech power from your Power Dice pool.  The Hurricanum also gives you +1 to hit in melee.  Coupling a bonus to hit in melee, with the Priest's ability to re-roll to-hit rolls in the first turn of melee keeps your knights from being Knights-of-the-Bending-Nerf-Lance, and your Halberds from being Soldiers-Armed-With-Cardboard-Replicas.  Not to mention that, if your buff your units to WS10, your units have the potential to be hitting some units on 2s.

11) To me, your Priest abilities need some work.

11-A) Are just his attacks Magical, or the entire unit he is in?  While, yes, it does fit that they're trying to hunt demons, deamons, and vampires… it is a huge ability to grant an entire unit magical attacks.  Yes, there are a couple of spells which offer the same effect; however, those same spells can be countered.  You have to kill the priest, to stop the Magical Weapon effect.  (Though... I guess it is similar to how Runepriests grant Armor Penetration to the unit they're with)

11-A-1) If you want to keep the Magical Weapon effect, I would make it specifically for the priest only. 

11-A-2) Also, this effect is sort of redundant with your Hand of Morr.

11-B) I'm not fond of new rules that are basically already in the game.  Instead of "Fear Not Death", I'd suggest "Immune to Psychology"… though that would require a cost adjustment in the price of your priests.

11-B-1) Or, if you insist on not giving your priests "Immune to Psychology"… use "Grim Resolve" instead.  That rule already exists… though it annoys me too, as why not just give the freaking Witch Hunter "Fear". (Again, I'm not fond of new rules that are basically renaming an already existing rule)

11-C) I would just give your priest generic-Hate instead of a specific-Hate.  If nothing else, maybe they're tired of people traipsing all over the graveyards, or moving them to build a new suburb or mall or something, or tired of elves being all emo and whiney in graveyards, or tired of orcs having their heavy-nordic-metal concerts in the graveyard, or tired of necromancers always digging up everything, or tired of rats getting into the crypts again, etc, etc, etc.  Anyway, normal Priests already have generic-Hate, so the ability easily transfers.

11-D) Presence of Morr seems really strong to me, for a Power Level 3 spell.  You can try to 1d6 cast it with decent success.  Even the low-level Fireball only generates d6 hits. Especially since it is "every enemy unit in base contact".  Judicious placement of the priest can have him cripple multiple enemy units, at little risk to himself.  Maybe swap it for "Every enemy model in base-to-base with the priest suffers d3 Strength 4 hits.  d6 Strength 4 hits, if the model is Undead or Nehekharan Undead" that way you can cap the number of enemy models effected to about 2 or 3, but still make it potentially damaging to what it does hit.

11-E) For your "Ease the Suffering" the way it is written, I'm interpreting it that all characters w/in 12" gain 1 wound.  That's a lot of potential healing!  Or, did you mean "Priest, or one character model w/in 12 inches?"  Also, does this mean they can go over their max wounds?

Anyway, just some quick thoughts.  Also… sorry about my sense of humor in some of my comments.  It does take a spot to get used too.  Anyway, I hope they help. ))

Offline Anubis

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Re: The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 01:49:34 AM »
Re: CarolineWellwater - Thanks for the reply! I'm reworking my list with your suggestions. I'll try posting it soon.


Offline Anubis

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Re: The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 07:10:12 AM »
Hello all, having another go at a Morr themed listed. I've made some modifications to the first list. Let me know what you thinks

Comments and criticisms welcome.

Lords:  418
Father Durrin - High Priest of Morr, Barded Warhorse, Great scythe, Armor of Destiny,

Gilgad - Wizard Lord of light, Lv 4, Talisman of preservation 

Heroes: 506
Barrik the Grim - Captain of Stirland – Full plate, Barded warhorse, shield, BSB, lance, Burial Gown of Morr (white wolf cloak)

Brother Gilles – Warrior priest of Morr, AoMI, Great scythe

Radar de Raven – Witch hunter, brace of pistols, White Ring of Templehof, glittering scales
      - White Ring of Templehof – like ring of volantus, but only light spells

Manlius the Black – Battle wizard, Lv 2, dispel scroll

Core: 950
The 13th unlucky cohort - 40 Halberdiers, full command
   - 10 Archers 
The Gravediggers – 24 swordsmen, full command
   - 10 Crossbows
Knights of the sacred Scythe – 11 inner circle knights, Great weapons, full command, banner of swiftness

Special: 395
The Ghost’s Shadow – 5 pistoliers, musician, outrider, repeater pistol   
Screaming Banshee - Great cannon
The Pale Riders – 5 Reikguard knights, musician, sergeant

Rare: 130
Morr’s Coach – Celestial Hurricanum 

« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 12:07:23 AM by Anubis »

Offline CarolineWellwater

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Re: The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 06:41:29 PM »
(( Hey Anubis,

Again... feeling lazy, so no story review for you this time.  But... I promise, next time I'll draft one up.

Anyway, some quick thoughts.

1) So... Father Durrin replaced Father York?  I liked the name "York"... :(

2-A) For Mr. the Grim, don't forget Glittering Scales' bonus (the -1 to hit) only counts in melee.  It doesn't really offer a lot of protection.  It might just be cheaper to get Mr. the Grim some Light Armor, and save some points

2-B) Also, I don't see the Ring of Templehof or Volantus in the main rule book.  Were those in Storm of Chaos or something?

3) For Manly, what Lore did you pick for him?  Are you keeping him with FIE-YAH!  As in, "He's so Manly, he's on FIE-YAH!"  Um... yeah.  Me and my dumb sense of humor.

3-A) As an aside, Metal is a pretty solid, multi-use Lore as well.  It's attribute tends to be on the weaker end, it's spells tend to be a bit pricier to cast, and it does have a couple of dud spells, but it offers some good damage ability, as well as good augments from Glittering Robe and Magic Sword.

3-A-1) I tend to use Fire-Shadow (red-black)and Fire-Heavens (red-blue) regularly for my pair of wizards.

4) For the 13th, you didn't include unit size.

4-A) Also, did you get them shield upgrades?  If you did, for the most part, shields on our troops are a bit cost-prohibitive.  It is usually better to get more troops, than it is to get your troops shields.

5) For your Crossbow detachment, since  normal deployment is 20 - 24" away, you can back-deploy the crossbows a bit, in order to take advantage of their 30" range.  I'd also suggest deploying them 5x2, since you can shoot a 2nd rank of missile troops now.  That'll shrink their footprint a bit, and help keep them from having LoS issues, as well as making it a bit harder to target them with a charge.

5-A) Though... it does compact them a bit against template effects.

5-B) Still... if you can swing it, Archers would probably serve you better, as their increased mobility will help slow-down enemy units, and Skirmish allows them to screen better.

6) For your knights, keep in mind that only the knights get to attack from the 2nd rank.

6-A) Getting ranks for knights, as a whole, is kinda expensive.  I understand the 6 knights gives you an ablative wound, so you can still have the 5-guys required for the rank bonus... but it is expensive.  I also tend to field my knights in blocks of 10 - 12... just wanted to make you aware that it is a lot of points, for only marginal increase in combat ability.  I just like the aesthetic of how ranks of knights look, and it helps them keep Unit Strength 10 for Disruption.

6-A-1) For about the same price as that 2nd rank, you could get another full unit of vanilla knights, which would open up more options.  Or a few more Soldiers for your infantry blocks.

6-B) Also, again, keep in mind that a 2+ Armor Save is more susceptible to small arms fire, magic missiles, and moderate strength attacks.  (As most of those will penalize your Armor Save to a 3+ or 4+.)  You'll have to weather a lot of damage, before they get to use those scythes of theirs.

7) For your Cowboys, if you're going to get the Marksman, you should try to get him the repeater pistol.   Multi Shot(4) is considerably better than MultiShot (2); it ups both the minimum-expected-damage as well as the maximum-damage-caused.

7-A) If you need to save some points, or can't find the points to get the Repeater Pistol, it might be better to just get 5 Pistoliers with Musician, and free up some points for elsewhere.

Anyway, just some quick thoughts. ))

Offline Anubis

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Re: The Pale Company - Stirland Boarder Patrol 2400pts
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 12:06:53 AM »
First off CarolineWellwater thank you for your comments and advice, I've found many of them extremely helpful.

To answer some of your questions/ explain my thinking some.

1) The generals name is actually Father York Durrin, York being his first name Durrin his last.

2) I'm planning on Radar tagging along with one of the melee units (no idea which it will probably change between battles) making it difficult to pick him out from shooting. My plan with him is to except any challenges that I don't want to get any of my other characters (namely Brother Gilles or a wizard) into a challenge. With the -1 to Hit I'm hoping he will just prolong the challenge.

2-B) The Ring of Templehof is in Sigmar's Blood, Volantus the Empire 8th edition book

3) I was going to go Death go with a (white-black) combo.

4) Your right, oops. it's 40.

4-B) No shields

5) That is my plan, 5x2 hold back and use their 30" range to weaken the enemy before close combat.

5-B) I only have 10 archer figures at the moment and I prefer not to proctor models.

6) As you've pointed out great weapon knights lose the 1+ to a 2+ armor save. While switching to lances would solve this problem for theme wise I want to keep them carrying scythes. To "solve" this problem I've added extra knights so when/if they make it into combat they will still have 10 knights (two ranks) that can fight.

7) Your right, thats what I mean't, but not what I wrote. Thanks for catching that.

Thanks again for the comments, let me know if you have any questions or more comments.