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Author Topic: 2500p, 8th, noob player, insufficient number of models (help me blow 153 points)  (Read 562 times)

Offline Timrath

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I'm trying to upgrade my army from 2000 to 2500 points, because the other players always give me annoyed looks when I tell them that I can only field 2000 points (it forces them to draw up smaller lists than they are used to). The problem is, I don't have enough models to fill up 2500 points, so I'm looking for options to inflate the army by shoehorning the stuff that I have into something that's worth more points.

To make it short, I did manage to beef everything up to 2347 points, and now I'm looking for ways to fill the remaining 153 points.
Here's what I did so far:

- Grand Master with Shield, Runefang and Other Trickster's Shard (I learned that combination from reading old threads on this board) (259p)
- Battle Wizard Lord with upgrade to level 4. (200p)
- General of the Empire (General) with Plate Armour, Pistol, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, and Potion of Foolhardiness (to be replaced by an Ironcurse Icon when playing against armies that have engines of war). (159p)

- Captain of the Empire (Battle Standard Bearer) with Plate Armour, Warhorse, Barding, Shield, Lance, Standard of Discipline. (131p)
- Warrior Priest with Additional Hand Weapon and Armour of Meteoric Iron. (117p)

- 48 Halberdiers in 5 files and 10 ranks, with full command. They are to be joined by the General (for 9 Leadership) and the Priest (for Hatred). (318p)
- 16+16 Handgunners forming two detachments for the Halberdiers. Expendable. Shave off as many as you want to make room for something more useful. (288p)
- 8 Knights of the Inner Circle (lances) with full command and Razor Standard. They are to be joined by the Grand Master (for Immune to Psychology) and the Battle Standard Bearer (for 10 Leadership and independence of the General's Leadership bubble). (275p)

- 3 Great Cannons. (360p)
- Two units of 5 Pistoliers each, with full command and Repeater Pistol. (240p)

I don't have any other models, except for a dozen more Handgunners, a lone Swordsman, a lone Militiaman, a Master Engineer, and a Pistolier. 5 of the Handgunners have those weird, short metal arms, which I could break off and replace with halberds, spears or swords, if it would do any good. I also have another Great Cannon, but I'm not allowed to field it (only 3 Specials of a kind allowed).

Any ideas on how to fill up the remaining 153 points?
My opponents would allow me to designate models as something different than what they are (e.g. say that a Handgunner is a Crossbowman), as long as the models kinda, sorta look like the other thing if you squint hard enough.

I came up with some options, but they're rather crazy:
1. Give the lone Pistolier a flashy paint job and promote him to Captain of the Empire. Stick a Pistol in his hand and let him ride with the Pistoliers. At his BS 5, he would have comparable firepower to an ordinary Pistolier, though at 4.5x his price. He would provide 8 Leadership for rallying tests (9 Leadership with the Musician), and I could give him some magic items to augment his unit's firepower... like the Ruby Ring of Destruction. He might even save his unit from instant annihilation, should they be forced into a melee. Do you think this could work?
Or 2. Pigeons! :Ohmy:
Yeah, I'm THAT crazy...

A few things to bear in mind:
1. I'm a beginner. I'm new, not only to the Empire, not only to Fantasy Battles, not only to Warhammer, but to the entire world of tabletop strategy gaming in general. Please use abbreviations and arcane references to obscure inside jokes sparingly. :-P I have only played 2 complete and 2 incomplete matches so far.
2. I'm a starving musician, so any suggestions you may have, should not include the words "buy", "boxed set" or "money".  :blush: My army is made up of used stuff I found cheap on Ebay. Buying specific things is only possible if and when I find them for a fraction of their retail price.
3. Reverting to 2000 points is not an option, because the other players hate playing at 2000 points, and I'd rather play a crappy 2500p army and lose, than have an OK 2000p army and be shunned.

Any critique on any aspects of my setup is of course welcome.

1st correction (1 day after originally posting):
Removed the Talisman of Preservation from the Wizard Lord.
Replaced the General's Luckstone with Dawnstone, after finding out that Ward saves don't stack with Parry saves.
Took away the Captain's Pistol and gave it to the General.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2016, 09:01:10 PM by Timrath »

Offline Timrath

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If it helps, the other players in my area are playing the following races:
2 Lizardmen
2 Ogres
1 Empire
1 Dwarfs
1 Skaven
1 Chaos Warriors

Offline Timrath

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Made a few updates to the original post.

Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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You could have the cannon proxy as a Helblaster Volley Gun (120 pts). While it has great synergy with the Engineer, it functions well on its own. Or you may consider a Scroll Caddy (Wizard with Dispel Scroll) and some magic items for the Wizard Lord (Ward Save item or Van Horstmann's ?).
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline Timrath

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That sounds like a good idea!
Would the Master Engineer benefit from any magic items?


Offline Fidelis von Sigmaringen

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Not really. Remember he gets the benefit of the "Look out, Sir!" rule, if within 3"of a war machine. You might consider giving him a repeater pistol for at least some protection against war machine hunters (he can also Stand & Shoot).
It is not enough to have no ideas of your own; you must also be incapable of expressing them.
Sex, lies and manuscripts: The History of the Empire as Depicted in the Art of the Time (10/07/16)

Offline CarolineWellwater

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(( Timrath,

Welcome to the forums.

I'm going to try to story-review your request, and keep it to what you have on-hand, in terms of models / figs / etc, since you said that was a critical restriction.  If something doesn't make sense, please let me know.

As an aside, for me I tend to get my engineers a repeater pistol, light armor, and a barded warhorse.  That way, they can do a suicidal charge to help protect their cannon / mortar / rocket cart for one final turn.

Or… sometimes when I'm feeling punchy, I get him that Mace of Helstrum.  He only has 1 attack, and tends to go last in melee anyway… so why not try to have it be at Strength 10 d6 wounds, if it hits.  It's quite a surprise… albeit expensive, and often he dies before he can use it… but when it does work in your favor, it is kinda amusing.  Or… at least my sense of humor finds it amusing.  Anyway, onto the review.

And "Armour"… I do love you English and your extra "U"s.  Sorry… me and my dumb sense of humor again.

Also, mind you, I don't have the book in front of me.  I moved, and haven't unpacked it yet, so I'm not sure of the point cost for these changes.

Okay, now onto the story.  ))

Combat Engineer Krueger stared at his boots.  Once, they were finely polished, silver-inlaid, calf's-leather boots from the plateaus of Estalia.  Now, they were cracked, the silver long since flaked off, and stank of earth and mud.  The old man dejectedly sighed.  Again, he was out in the cold.  Again, he barely had food in his stomach.  Again, he was out earning gold, while his liege, Elector Count von Metzger, was wasting time trying to convince Marienburg that he was their current Elector.  As best he could, he re-bloused the cuffs of his pants into his boots.

Scooting his chair closer to the table, the old man looked over at the triad of nobles who had hired his services to review their army.  An aristocrat, a chapter knight, and a magician of supposedly superior power.  All so heavily perfumed, it was borderline nauseating.  Current fashion in the Empire was to bathe in perfume once a month, in order to keep foulness away.  At least in Estalia and Tilea they used soap when they bathed, Krueger thought to himself.  The old engineer sighed again.  He knew that magic was just stagecraft and illusion designed to trick the unwashed, huddled, unenlightened masses.  His science was true.  Their "magick" was all smoke and mirrors.  Still.. paying clients were paying clients.

Clearing his throat, the old man started, "With your leave, I have taken measure of the forces you've arrayed, and your request to improve upon them.  Do forgive, but I need to make haste with my comments, as my liege, Elector Count von Metzger, requires me to travel to the Border Princes with great celerity."

As was his tick, Krueger pulled out a wad of paper from his pocket that would have make a bookbinder's fortune.  Flipping a couple of pages, he tapped them back into a neat stack.  "First, I must say, do all three of you really need to go to war?  Who will stay back to manage your fields, and ensure that your laws are obeyed.  If I may be so bold, your Count, perhaps you should leave this fight to your prelate and knight captain.  I understand that your army is a bit understaffed, but I will address that momentarily.

"Sir, if you were to stay home, the silver you would save on your retinue would allow you to purchase an anti-magic scroll.  While I know that magic is little more than slight-of-hand, having that scroll on your wizard does bolster the confidence of your troops.  You would also free up a few silver coins to obtain the services of a pegasus or armored horse for your mage.  If you do lack such items, amongst my own personal possessions, I do have a scroll enchanted against magicks, as well as semi-brettonian-stock warhorses that I'd be pleased to rent to you, for a small, additional donation.  I," hemmed Krueger, "do have a pegasus as well… but that does require a spot larger of a deposit.  She is not mine, you understand, but my colleague, the Lady Issabella, and I would hate to see anything happen to Snowflower.  Still, I understand your situation, and would be acceptable to offering Snowflower's service as well… given said sizeable security donation.  You understand of course."

"I'd also like to mention that… while I understand the purpose of the badge of honor the Runefang brings… are you certain you'd want to use such a family relic?  If I may, perhaps something that just offers the strength of the Ogres of Cathay might work a spot better… and you could even couple that with the protective services of a holy relic.  If you lack such empowered items, I do happen to have both, designed and crafted by the exotic weapon smiths of Cathy, and blessed by their own High Emperor."

Running his hand over his bald head, Krueger flipped a couple of pages, crunchily stuffing them back into his oversized pockets.  Finding the page he was looking for, the old engineer continued.  "Ah, here we are.  I… would say, while I understand that your state banner is powerful, and helps keep your battle-line organized, it… does make a bit of a target of your Banner-Captain.  Should he fall, it would be a great blow to the morale and leadership of your army.  If I may be so bold, your Grace, perhaps consider just bringing a banner, and offering a spot of protection to your Banner-Captain.  I do happen to have a relic that my own friend, the Priestess Paetricia, swears an oath too is the burial shroud of Sigmar himself.  Oddly… while I do not believe in miracles or magic, I have born witness to the shroud protecting its wearer from flames, enemy blows, and even be able to keep the wearer alive until medical help arrived.  It was quite curious indeed.  Such protection would be well warranted on your Battle-Captain.  Also, he should have a badge of honor… such as a pistol.  If you need, I do have a few, crafted by the gunsmith von Kolt, that I could offer for a few, small, silvers.  A pistol offers a spot of range to your Banner-Captain, and I have seen he has a keen eye for range."

Krueger flipped the page over, and continued, "Your Grace, I have noticed that your deacon bears a fine suit of iron… some metallurgists I know would even call such material steel, as it seems able to withstand blows that would ruin iron.  Still, I know obtaining such a curiosity is expensive.  My own friend, the Priestess Paetricia, has forgone such armor, and instead wears just a heavy suit of mail and a curiously protective black hood… which I swear I've seen resist fire like no material I've ever born witness too."  Krueger started to tap the pages of his notes.  Forgoing a pen, he dipped his finger in the ink, and wrote while he spoke, "You know… sometimes I think she wears a ring with rubies or garnets or something… and… while I know it must be some trick of the light, sometimes it just seems like fire shoots out of the ring too."  The old man paused here, and quickly looked over the table.  Taking a deep breath, he silently concluded that the trio of nobles had not deemed him worth proper hospitality, and did not even have bread or water to partake in.  What had the Empire come too.

Shaking his head, Krueger carelessly stuffed more pages back into his pockets.  He hated leaving his notes behind.  "Sir, if I may, for your company of Halberdiers… I noticed that they don't seem to be training with shields.  While shields are often dropped in melee, they do allow a company to survive small arms fire in order to arrive in melee.  Perhaps it would be worthwhile to draw them from your armory."

"Sir, I would say, while I understand you might be short-staffed for knights, I did notice one other rider who would work well with the knights.  While he might have the cavalier appearance of a Pistolkorps, I'm certain he would do well as a knight in your retinue.  That would also increase the thunderous charge potential of your squadron of knights."

Putting his papers on the table, Krueger grabbed a couple of blocks, and put them behind each other.  "Now, this is your current unit of knights.  Though, I have seen one of them with the skill of a Knight-Sergeant.  Perhaps," suggested the old man as he separated the blocks, "It might serve better to have two, smaller units of knights.  One could escort your Banner-Captain, the other yourself, Sir.  While the Lances wouldn't have the sheer size of a squadron, and do run the risk of being a spot more fragile… having two units of knights opens up mobility options, flank charge possibilities, and a quick-reaction force to exploit holes in an enemy formation or line.  In addition, I've seen a plethora of banners and horns in your armory that you could use to equip a second command section, for both units.  It might be something worth thinking about."

Dipping his finger in the inkwell again, Krueger scratched another set of notes while talking aloud to himself.  "Thinking of that… he does have some silver available… he could also recruit some of the outriders from the neighboring college… that would give him a lance of pistoliers as well as a lance of outriders… one for mobility and harassment fire… the other for rapid deployment, and dangerous fire…"

Picking his papers back up, Krueger turned to the next page in the shrinking stack.  "I did notice you have two sections of handgunners.  I… would suggest you use them independently of your main company.  It is a bit too risky to use as a detachment, and they can almost as effectively as independent commands.

"While I understand the Empire's love of blackpowder… it… pains me to say this, but your handguns are of shoddy quality and workmanship.  If I may suggest, I do have with me enough crossbows to fully re-outfit your handgunner units.  Crossbows do lack some of the punch of a handgun, but they are more reliable out to a further distance.  If you do want to keep your handguns, I would suggest hiring a marksman for both units, whether crossbow or handgun…and possibly swapping out the handgun for a brace of pistols.  This might see counterintuitive, but the pistols would allow your handgunners to have some offensive capability, even if they move.  With the pistol's ability to rapidly shoot, even if you have to march to a new location, a pistol-equipped marksman can take a pot shot or two while the rest reposition themselves.  In either case, I would also suggest getting drums or horns or bagpipes for your missile troops.  Being able to quickly redeploy to a rousing drumbeat, or rally if they are a bit shaken, a musician is worth his weight in Imperial silver."

"I did notice you have quite a battery of cannon.  Have you considered a rocket cart, a volley gun, or an engineer?  While the rocket cart is… a bit finicky, an engineer can assist either, and make them a spot more reliable.  In fact, I have seen a number of Engineers work Volley Guns to devastating effect.  Or, if the crews are doing well on their own, the Engineer can assess the battlefield, and perhaps use a wondrous death-machine of science.  I have seen pigeons strapped with grenades cause considerable and occasionally catastrophic carnage."

Putting his notes on the table again, Kruger picked up one of the blocks, and set it atop an empty butter dish.  "Or… I have seen you have a preponderance of cannons in your armory.  You do have a couple of wagons that are sturdy enough that, you could strap a boiler onto… some metal shields… and hedge-craft a steamtank.  The contraptions are oddly simplistic in mechanical design.  If you wish, I do possess the boilermaker, clockwork, gearing and engineer skills required to design and quick-build such a weapon… however, it does require a considerable charge of Imperial gold for me to use such services.  I hate to have to charge during times of war, but I do need to keep to the instructions and commands given to me buy my liege, Elector Count von Metzger."

Rubbing his balding head, again, Krueger stuffed the remaining notes into his mailbag.  Nodding, the old man finished.  "Barring any questions, Gentlemen, I have already received payment for my services from your steward.  If you have no further need of my critical skills, I must be off to the Border Princes."

(( Anyway, I hope that makes some sense.  If I did it correctly, I don't think you'd need to get any new models / figs… just re-purpose the ones you have. ))