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Author Topic: The Hobbit Movie  (Read 6946 times)

Offline Johan Willhelm

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #75 on: November 08, 2007, 03:21:33 PM »
Isn't this just Ian Holm with a bit of makeup?

A lot of makeup, I heard.

Holm did a great Frodo in the BBC radio production of Lord of the Rings. Much better than 'rabbit-in-the-headlights-eyes' Elijah Wood from the film.

The BBC radio production of The Lord of The Rings was ferociously good . . . 13 hours of Tolkien joy, try listening to it in a day.
Rufas the Eccentric:
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Offline Rufas the Eccentric

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #76 on: November 08, 2007, 04:13:46 PM »
Midaski as Smaug and General Helstrom as Bard or Wyzer1 as Bilbo and Rufas as Golum.   :icon_wink:
p.i.o.m(aka Smaug).t :::cheers:::
Bless us and splash us precious!  I think I am too tall to play Golum.  But otherwise, the psychotic, split personality is a close match.  :smile2:

It's been a while since I've been on-line (moving is a pain). I can't believe I almost missed this.  To Victor, Wissenlander, and anyone else who judges the Tolkien world based on the movies or a partial reading, you are missing the deepest layering of a alternate world that was ever created. The Hobbit is a relatively strait forward children's adventure, but there are glimpses of the distant past.  With the Lord of the Rings, the story line is far more complex (Peter Jackson cut a lot out), and the interface between the current events in the War of the Rings and the ancient world of the Silmarallion.  The complexity of the LotR is such that one will never really absorb all that is happening on the first read or even the second.  Occasionally, there will be an attempt to duplicate the historical layered effect.  Babylon 5 is a good example of this.  But, no one has ever equaled Professor Tolkien.

The layering of Tolkien's world is not a result of the Silmarillion in and  of itself, but due to the fact that, that work itself was created to provide a background for several versions of the Elvish language, that Tolkien started inventing as a teenager in pre WWI England.  A large portion of the Silmarillion was existent (in scattered stories and poems) prior to the writing of the Hobbit in the late 1920's.  Prior to completing the LotR Tolkien stopped work on that project to complete a full outline of the Silmarillion history in order to  achieve consistency between the two works.  Following the publication of the LotR he returned to the Silmarillion which was still not completed to his satisfaction at the time of his death in 1973.  The entire work is the life's output stretching over 70 years.

I loved the Hobbit... Hated LoTR.  Two very different books.

I found LoTR kinda anticlimatic... there were parts where Tolkien would spend 2 or 3 pages talking about something as minute as pipeweed, and the big final battle at the end of book 3... the one you've been just aching for... is settled in a few paragraphs, with as little detail as manageable.  And after spending most of the book reading about Frodo and Sam crawling over rocks and dirt... I kinda felt ripped off.

But everything is there for a reason.  The pipe weed gives the first inkling of a link between Saruman and the Shire.  In part Tolkien's attention to detail about the little things is what is essential to creating a world that is truly believable.  I will give Peter Jackson credit for capturing the look and feel of Middle Earth and getting most of the characters right. (Except Faramir:  He butchered Faramir. :closed-eyes: )

Tolkien's books were never mainstream. They spawned a genre of of adventure fantasy books but were often only picked up by people of a more alternative or select taste in literature. (um, AKA geeks)

A lot of people seem surprised when they pick up the books and find it doesn't immediately grab them by the throat. It wasn't meant to be that way. Just as Rosencrantz said, Tolkien himself was surprised by its popularity.
             
Tolkien's LotR touched a nerve with the counterculture of the 1960's.  The creation of a simpler world where good and evil were clearly defined, and life and the environment had value touched a cord with the Hippies (I miss Hippie chicks, alas I was too young) .  Tolkien's creation, while not the first work in historical fantasy genre, set the standard for all that came after, including Dungeons and Dragons, Magic the Gathering, and of course Warhammer.  

Still, I don't understand those who claim that LotR is inaccessable.  It is a mountain to digest, and I suggest several readings to really appreciate it's complexity, but the effort is well worth it.
Sigmar on a sling, the stuff some people come up with. . . .

Offline Captain Tineal

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #77 on: November 08, 2007, 05:08:15 PM »
Ah the things discussed since my previous comment shed some light on the way LoTR is written the way it is.  Partly my fault for not doing a little research into it.

I cant say that I feel like reading them was a waste of my time, but having read The Hobbit first and loving every second of it... indeed I was quite sad to reach the end... LoTR was just too different to inspire the same affection for me I guess.

I do belive the movies do the first two books justice... though the third movie really sucked if you ask me.

The Hobbit and the LoTR are both definately cultural icons, and for sure have influenced the fantasy greats that have followed.  For that, I am definately greatful.
I don't know what a pisolires is but it sounds like a musical instrument you play with urine...

Offline wissenlander

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #78 on: November 08, 2007, 06:01:56 PM »
I do think the man was a genius, coming up with what he did.  I think the complexity is great, and the fact he created an entire world and everything in it, at great detail is a feat that very few could accomplish.  As far as interests go, I just didn't find it equate it to my tastes.  He may not have liked warfare, and that's understandable...but it's a touch more exciting to read about than tobacco.  Maybe that's just me.

I'm not trying to bash Tolkien, I'd never do that...because his works are too good to do that.  I just didn't like certain aspects of the books and that was enough to get me to stop reading it midway through.
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Offline rufus sparkfire

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #79 on: November 08, 2007, 07:02:12 PM »
The BBC radio production of The Lord of The Rings was ferociously good . . . 13 hours of Tolkien joy, try listening to it in a day.

I don't think I could sit through the whole thing in one go, but I do think it's better than the films. More fun than reading the book as well!
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Offline Johan Willhelm

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #80 on: November 08, 2007, 07:41:05 PM »
The BBC radio production of The Lord of The Rings was ferociously good . . . 13 hours of Tolkien joy, try listening to it in a day.

I don't think I could sit through the whole thing in one go, but I do think it's better than the films. More fun than reading the book as well!

Well I'm something of a Tolkien fanboy  :happy: a mere 13 hours of his excellence is nothing to me  :-D

My attitude to the films is well documented in my gaming group:

"I love it! The world was perfect! No wait, I HATE it there were no Elves at Helms Deep! and what's with the Arwen / Eowyn personality transplant? Actually I'm indifferent, it's Peter Jackson's interpretation and I can give the guy who made "Bad Taste" a lot of leeway. Actually I love it again . . . " and so on . . .

anywho this all stems from the fact my Dad read The Hobbit and then the Lord of the Rings to me as a bedtime story when I was a kid (ahh sweet) didn't have to choose another book for a year. Maybe it's the way it was introduced to me but because it's such an immense tome I find it weirdly accessible. Whatever your mood there is something in the Lord of the Rings for you.


yeah I like it a lot, sorry for the long post  :unsure:

Rufas the Eccentric:
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Some times there will be threads on controversial subjects . . . Reasonable people can disagree about these things . . . It is important to not make personal attacks or get drawn in to personal attacks.

Be it ethics or muppets. Rufas was a good man.

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Offline Rosencrantz

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #81 on: November 08, 2007, 08:20:48 PM »
I love Tolkien's work, more so than is good for me. In fact, I'm always annoyed that a friend of mine gets both audience and apparent praise for encyclopaedic knowlegde of all things Star wars whereas I get a blank look with an inkling of "This guy needs a girlfriend" when I mention the finer points of the Silmarillion. It's such a shame he never finished the elvish languages.

The film depicts many things in The Lord of the Rings badly, in my opinion. Arwen becomes something of an elvish sulky teenager, Elrond apparently has no compassion, Eowyn becomes evern more two-dimensional (One of the only characters that Tolkien never convinced me with) and the hobbits look far, far to childish.

As for narrative flair, I suggest that everyone read the first book of The Return of the King, and then the very end of the second book at least. Tolkien's description of the Battle of Pelennor Fields is actually very solidly grounded (You can see the Great War leaching into the battle) and the chapter involving the Grey Havens is just fantastic. If you fail to be even slightly moved by that, you have no soul

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Offline Captain Tineal

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #82 on: November 08, 2007, 08:28:49 PM »
I liked the battle with the Ents... that one was way better than the big final battle... so was the skirmish where Boromir was slain.  I think that is why the final battle disappointed me so much.
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Offline Rufas the Eccentric

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #83 on: November 08, 2007, 11:42:12 PM »
In fact, I'm always annoyed that a friend of mine gets both audience and apparent praise for encyclopaedic knowledge of all things Star wars whereas I get a blank look with an inkling of "This guy needs a girlfriend" when I mention the finer points of the Silmarillion.
 
Come on, admit it.  You do need a girlfriend.  Doesn't everyone?

The film depicts many things in The Lord of the Rings badly, in my opinion. Arwen becomes something of an elvish sulky teenager, Elrond apparently has no compassion, Eowyn becomes even more two-dimensional (One of the only characters that Tolkien never convinced me with).
Those are all legitmate complaints.  But Faramir!  They change him from a sensitive heroic captain willing to defy a father whose appproval he craved, to a total wus willing to sell out the world for that same approval.

It seems that many are judging the Battle of Pelenor Fields by the movie rather that the book.

Quote
and the hobbits look far, far to childish.
Actually, this is one area where Peter Jackson and the casting crew got things right.  The Hobbits, especially Meriadoc and Peregrin, provide a bit of comic relief from all of the heavy "world in the balance" theme.  They are verry young Hobbits and heirs to the two most important families in the Shire.  In other words Fops.
Sigmar on a sling, the stuff some people come up with. . . .

Offline Johan Willhelm

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #84 on: November 09, 2007, 08:56:22 AM »
Those are all legitmate complaints.  But Faramir!  They change him from a sensitive heroic captain willing to defy a father whose appproval he craved, to a total wus willing to sell out the world for that same approval.

I first saw The Two Towers with my girlfriend of the time and after watching the Fellowship together I was under strict orders to shut the hell up - well I saw a beautiful panning shot of Tolkiens Map of Middle Earth when Faramir said something along the fateful lines as : "We go to Minas Tirith"

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I cried leaping from my seat - the whol room turned and about 95% of the people wanted me dead (including me) 5% were clearly agreeing with me but were with girlfriends so kept their mouths shut  :happy:

the whole point of Faramir is his juxtaposition to Borromir - to many that was a turning point of "okay he can take certain liberties but not THAT one"
Rufas the Eccentric:
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Some times there will be threads on controversial subjects . . . Reasonable people can disagree about these things . . . It is important to not make personal attacks or get drawn in to personal attacks.

Be it ethics or muppets. Rufas was a good man.

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Offline Veldemere

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #85 on: November 09, 2007, 09:14:07 AM »
To me the one thing Jackson got just right was the production design, I know it is a very subjective thing but each location in the film looked distinct and not too far off the way I had imagined them.
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Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #86 on: November 09, 2007, 05:03:13 PM »
To me the one thing Jackson got just right was the production design, I know it is a very subjective thing but each location in the film looked distinct and not too far off the way I had imagined them.

The main hall building thing in rohan was EXACTLY how I imagined the beer hall in beowulf when I read it in high school, it was breath taking.  I agree the production design team was magnificent and is what gave the movie its epic and otherworldy feel to it.  Jackson pretty much tells people how to feel, were to stand, and the camera angle.  Keep the team, jackson doesnt matter though keeping him in it would make the series consistent.
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #87 on: November 09, 2007, 05:27:05 PM »
I hated Edoras in the movies. The Golden City is not a community of farming Vikings... :roll:

And in the scene where Pippin and Gandalf leave Edoras, Merry wears a jacket that belongs in the 17th century or so...
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Offline Rosencrantz

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2007, 07:32:18 PM »
To Rufas - Maybe I do need a girlfriend (To a given value of "need") but what does annoy me is the inexplicable look I get as opposed to said star wars nut. I'll never understand people. Anyway, I rather do see where you're coming from with David Wenham as Faramir - Faramir in the books is an excellent character. I thought that he looked almost spot on though, whatever his lines were like.

Johan - I applaud your ease of expression! Sometimes you just need to scream it out.

I always have said that the design processes for the films were very thorough, and for the most part I like the interpretation. It could have very easily become a bundle of half-finished sterotypes that obviously bore little referencing to the books. True, Rohan as a nation is a bit primitive and does deserve some more credit. The so-called Golden Hall of the films is hardly as impressive and beautiful a construction as you see in the books. It's a slight pity that they had to work with a barren-looking plain really, I reckon just making the grass greener would have improved the look of Rohan (It was named Calenardhon by Gondor for a reason after all)

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Offline Feanor Fire Heart

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2007, 09:06:05 PM »
lol I expected the hall to look better as well, however it is how i imagined the drinking hall in beowulf which was viking anyways.

As far as faramir, I too believe he seemed stronger(in character not muscle) in the book as opposed to the movie.  The movie version seemed more like "daddy wasnt there, daddy never hugged me, sniffle sniffle"

And were was the captain of the guard who befriended merry?  he could have been put in the movie and not have taken much air time, perhaps helping merry's story along a bit.

Would have liked to see the elite guard fight some of those orcs, instead you only saw them guard the tree and nothing else.

I think we all need girlfriends, but thats because, well their girls! and pretty pretty.  It has nothing to do with being nerdy but have someone to share it with and get some victory loving
 :happy:
"Find him, bind him, tie him to a pole and break his fingers to splinters. Drag him to a hole until he wakes up, naked, clawing at the ceiling of his grave."- Mother in "The Mariner's Revenge Song" to her son.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPAr7kL-

Offline Veldemere

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2007, 09:08:44 PM »
I hated Edoras in the movies. The Golden City is not a community of farming Vikings... :roll:

And in the scene where Pippin and Gandalf leave Edoras, Merry wears a jacket that belongs in the 17th century or so...

Well my feeling was that any race built around the breeding of horses and their use in combat would look something like a series of bridle stables and liveries put together, to me it was almost too close together, think more little house on the praire!

edit: oh and although I have a wife I still need a girlfriend
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 09:11:18 PM by Veldemere »
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2007, 09:11:45 PM »
It's described in the book as a magnificient golden city, therefore it should be so in the movies.
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Offline Veldemere

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2007, 09:22:17 PM »
Anyone who lives near wheat fields (fodder for horses) would describe their city as golden at the right time of year.
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Offline Von Breden

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2007, 09:27:18 PM »
But Tolkien didn't live in Edoras...
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I never noticed your height on account of your fabulous manly imperial beard.

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Offline Rosencrantz

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2007, 09:29:17 PM »

edit: oh and although I have a wife I still need a girlfriend
[/quote]

Now that made me laugh. But I'm damned if I'll get dragged into that whole monkey buisness. Just because I play toy soldiers doesn't mean I can't keep some of my dignity  :closed-eyes: . Pretty pretty be damned. And yes, I am both bitter and angry

Beregond was the name of the soldier, and he wasn't a captain. It might have been nice to see him, we did see one little known character (So little known I have a feeling his name was Ingold, but I dont recall if Ingold appeared in this scene), the soldier who speaks when Faramir is dragged in after being Nazgulled.

Still, I liked the Guard of the Fountain Court as they were. Their costumes weren't really designed to move, let's face it.

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Doop123

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Re: The Hobbit Movie
« Reply #95 on: November 10, 2007, 04:54:34 PM »